Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:16 AM - Re: Re: lightning strike (Thane States)
2. 05:19 AM - Re: Most complete tool kit (Luis Rodriguez)
3. 05:53 AM - Re: Most complete tool kit (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
4. 06:43 AM - Re: Re: 406 ELT's (Kelly McMullen)
5. 07:07 AM - Re: Most complete tool kit (Kelly McMullen)
6. 07:19 AM - Re: Most complete tool kit (Bill Mauledriver Watson)
7. 07:29 AM - Re: Most complete tool kit (Seano)
8. 07:55 AM - Re: Overhead map and panel lighting options (Strasnuts)
9. 08:01 AM - Re: Automotive Spark Plugs (AirMike)
10. 08:02 AM - Re: Most complete tool kit (Pascal)
11. 08:41 AM - Re: Re: Automotive Spark Plugs (Carl Froehlich)
12. 08:44 AM - Re: Most complete tool kit (Albert Gardner)
13. 08:49 AM - Re: Re: Automotive Spark Plugs (Don McDonald)
14. 09:12 AM - Re: Re: Automotive Spark Plugs ()
15. 09:40 AM - Re: Automotive Spark Plugs (Luis Rodriguez)
16. 09:49 AM - Re: Overhead map and panel lighting options (Jim Berry)
17. 09:58 AM - Re: Most complete tool kit (Chris Colohan)
18. 10:04 AM - Re: Most complete tool kit (John Cumins)
19. 10:24 AM - Re: Most complete tool kit (ricksked@cox.net)
20. 10:33 AM - Back rivet tailcone (Russell Shavitz)
21. 11:23 AM - Re: Most complete tool kit (John Cox)
22. 11:36 AM - Re: Most complete tool kit (John Cumins)
23. 11:42 AM - Re: Back rivet tailcone (Eric_Kallio)
24. 11:51 AM - Re: Re: Automotive Spark Plugs (John Cox)
25. 12:01 PM - Re: Re: Back rivet tailcone (Perry, Phil)
26. 12:17 PM - Re: Most complete tool kit (nicholscatoauto@aol.com)
27. 12:35 PM - Re: Re: Automotive Spark Plugs (DLM)
28. 12:52 PM - Re: Re: Automotive Spark Plugs (ricksked@cox.net)
29. 01:19 PM - Re: Re: Automotive Spark Plugs (Robin Marks)
30. 01:48 PM - Re: Most complete tool kit (johngoodman)
31. 01:55 PM - Re: Re: Automotive Spark Plugs (Tim Olson)
32. 02:49 PM - Re: rudder skins (Ron B.)
33. 02:53 PM - Re: Aileron Counterbalance Holes (Ron B.)
34. 03:18 PM - Re: Re: Automotive Spark Plugs (Jim)
35. 03:20 PM - Re: Re: Most complete tool kit (Luis Rodriguez)
36. 03:44 PM - Re: Re: Back rivet tailcone (David Maib)
37. 03:51 PM - Re: Most complete tool kit ()
38. 04:01 PM - Re: Back rivet tailcone (Jim Berry)
39. 04:11 PM - Re: Most complete tool kit (Kelly McMullen)
40. 04:14 PM - Re: Most complete tool kit (Pascal)
41. 04:24 PM - Re: Most complete tool kit (Roxanne and Mike Lefever)
42. 04:25 PM - Re: Most complete tool kit (Perry, Phil)
43. 04:39 PM - Re: Most complete tool kit (Pascal)
44. 04:45 PM - Re: Re: Automotive Spark Plugs (Carl Froehlich)
45. 05:09 PM - Re: Re: Foreflight Mobile 3.0 for iPhone (Bill Schlatterer)
46. 05:36 PM - Re: Re: Automotive Spark Plugs (Robin Marks)
47. 05:50 PM - Re: Re: Automotive Spark Plugs (Jim)
48. 05:53 PM - Re: Re: Automotive Spark Plugs (Jim)
49. 06:02 PM - Re: Re: Foreflight Mobile 3.0 for iPhone (Tim Olson)
50. 06:19 PM - Re: Most complete tool kit (Luis)
51. 06:32 PM - Re: Back rivet tailcone (Kelly McMullen)
52. 06:49 PM - Re: Most complete tool kit (Kelly McMullen)
53. 07:14 PM - tools (DLM)
54. 07:20 PM - Re: Re: Foreflight Mobile 3.0 for iPhone (Deems Davis)
55. 07:37 PM - Re: Most complete tool kit (johngoodman)
56. 08:48 PM - Re: Re: Foreflight Mobile 3.0 for iPhone (Tim Olson)
57. 08:48 PM - Re: Re: Foreflight Mobile 3.0 for iPhone (Tim Olson)
58. 08:48 PM - Re: Most complete tool kit (Seano)
59. 09:12 PM - Re: Re: Automotive Spark Plugs (Kelly McMullen)
60. 10:54 PM - Re: Most complete tool kit (Don McDonald)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: lightning strike |
If you just stay away from those big TSM'S, you will never have to worry
again. If you ever get hit with lightning, you were not using proper
judgment, and are to close to the bad WX!! Keep at least 20 miles away and
you will be OK.
Build safe , and fly safe.
Have fun.
Thane
40337
100 hrs.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Turner" <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 6:56 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: lightning strike
>
> I was mis-informed about the lightning photo (too gullible, I guess).
> Thanks for the correction.
>
> But I'm still worried about the non-conducting fiberglass cabin, when it
> comes to lightning.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279313#279313
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Most complete tool kit |
Score:
Ischam 3
Avery. 1
Custom 2
Thank you for the responses so far!!!
I'll definetly add the hole punch, extra clecos, extra scotchbrite
wheels, and a drdt2.
I'll eBay the air drill and pneumatic sqeezer.
Sent from my iPod
On Dec 30, 2009, at 5:56 PM, Luis Rodriguez <luis@cristabelle.net>
wrote:
>
> Which tool kit is the most complete/best to order for the -10.
>
>
> Sent from my iPod
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Most complete tool kit |
I purchased the Avery kit and it certainly does the job but, as others have said,
there are some items in it that are not very useful. Their double edge deburring
tool is worthless IMHO, I've had three replaced now. They have all had
their heads fall off from brazing of the head on and I finally chucked it in
my junk drawer. DRDT-2 is a must also. If I had to do it today, I would probably
go with Isham.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Luis Rodriguez
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 7:20 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
Score:
Ischam 3
Avery. 1
Custom 2
Thank you for the responses so far!!!
I'll definetly add the hole punch, extra clecos, extra scotchbrite
wheels, and a drdt2.
I'll eBay the air drill and pneumatic sqeezer.
Sent from my iPod
On Dec 30, 2009, at 5:56 PM, Luis Rodriguez <luis@cristabelle.net>
wrote:
>
> Which tool kit is the most complete/best to order for the -10.
>
>
> Sent from my iPod
>
>
Message 4
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|
Well, heck, might as well go real basic, as in preparation to
prime.......do I hear dawn scrub ,scotchbrite,acetone, mek, alumiprep,
alodine, nothing with self etching......or............? How to retain
all the nice markings of Alcoa, etc.
Robin Marks wrote:
>
> Jerry,
> Primer wars as SOOOOO Analog.
> Thanks for your input,
> Robin
>
Do Not Archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Most complete tool kit |
IMHO, your best deal on a drill is from Avery. The Chicago Pneumatic is
compact, light, and has a very nice touch teasing trigger, for $125, or
$155 with reversing. Sure a keyless chuck is nice, but is it worth an
extra $70? Maybe Avery would make a deal combining the two.
Luis Rodriguez wrote:
>
> Score:
>
> Ischam 3
> Avery. 1
> Custom 2
>
> Thank you for the responses so far!!!
>
> I'll definetly add the hole punch, extra clecos, extra scotchbrite
> wheels, and a drdt2.
>
> I'll eBay the air drill and pneumatic sqeezer.
>
> Sent from my iPod
>
> On Dec 30, 2009, at 5:56 PM, Luis Rodriguez <luis@cristabelle.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Which tool kit is the most complete/best to order for the -10.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPod
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Most complete tool kit |
I have the red one and not sure the teasing capability is very good, so
the Chicago sounds great. Keyless chuck? Can't imagine being without it.
Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> IMHO, your best deal on a drill is from Avery. The Chicago Pneumatic
> is compact, light, and has a very nice touch teasing trigger, for
> $125, or $155 with reversing. Sure a keyless chuck is nice, but is it
> worth an extra $70? Maybe Avery would make a deal combining the two.
>
> Luis Rodriguez wrote:
>>
>> Score:
>>
>> Ischam 3
>> Avery. 1
>> Custom 2
>>
>> Thank you for the responses so far!!!
>>
>> I'll definetly add the hole punch, extra clecos, extra scotchbrite
>> wheels, and a drdt2.
>>
>> I'll eBay the air drill and pneumatic sqeezer.
>>
>> Sent from my iPod
>>
>> On Dec 30, 2009, at 5:56 PM, Luis Rodriguez <luis@cristabelle.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Which tool kit is the most complete/best to order for the -10.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPod
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Most complete tool kit |
In my kit Isham threw in the keyless chuck Souix drill and it has been great
even after being dropped about a hundred times. The keyless chuck part was
a free upgrade not the drill itself.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Luis Rodriguez" <luis@cristabelle.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 6:19 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
>
> Score:
>
> Ischam 3
> Avery. 1
> Custom 2
>
> Thank you for the responses so far!!!
>
> I'll definetly add the hole punch, extra clecos, extra scotchbrite
> wheels, and a drdt2.
>
> I'll eBay the air drill and pneumatic sqeezer.
>
> Sent from my iPod
>
> On Dec 30, 2009, at 5:56 PM, Luis Rodriguez <luis@cristabelle.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Which tool kit is the most complete/best to order for the -10.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPod
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Overhead map and panel lighting options |
I bought the Aveoflash position lights and overhead lights (eyebeams). I thought
after seeing how cool the position lights were, I had to buy the eyebeams.
They are not as cool as you think. Mine came from Aircraft Spruce and looked
as if they had been demo models. The face plates were falling off and they looked
like someone rubbed their finger up and down them a million times. Come
to find out Aircraft Spruce sells the bezels and adhesive separate because I'm
sure everyone who bought these wants to replace the bezels after a short period
of use. They are also big, 3-1/16 diameter. I am now trying to find a place
on Geoff's awesome carbon fiber overhead to fit them. I may put one up front
and one in back, if I keep them. I called Aircraft Spruce about the Eyebeams'
bezels, they are so good about returns. I had them send me two new bezels
and adhesive (free) so I can replace mine that I haven't even used yet. I plan
on buying some protective plastic material like the one on Iphones if using
the lights.
--------
Cust. #40936
RV-10 SB Fuselage
N801VR reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279406#279406
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Automotive Spark Plugs |
I am not the sharpest tool in drawer, but why would you want to take a chance with
an automotive product to save a few bucks on a $40K engine.
Aircraft plugs are designed for A/C engines. Explain me?
--------
OSH '10 or Bust
Q/B - testing phase 1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279410#279410
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Most complete tool kit |
I looked at putting a keyless chuck on my Sioux, but in the end I never
really felt that it was a big enough deal to actually do it. I think if
one is frugal, like me, it certainly is worth just trying everything as
is and upgrading those things that one really needs (or wants) no
different than the kit itself, some items really "need" to be
replaced/upgraded and many don't, others are fine as it is even though
some have upgraded. My examples would focus around the landing gear;
axle, extension, wheel, etc.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Bill Mauledriver Watson" <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 7:20 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
<MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
>
> I have the red one and not sure the teasing capability is very good,
so
> the Chicago sounds great. Keyless chuck? Can't imagine being without
it.
>
> Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>
>> IMHO, your best deal on a drill is from Avery. The Chicago Pneumatic
>> is compact, light, and has a very nice touch teasing trigger, for
>> $125, or $155 with reversing. Sure a keyless chuck is nice, but is it
>> worth an extra $70? Maybe Avery would make a deal combining the two.
>>
>> Luis Rodriguez wrote:
<luis@cristabelle.net>
>>>
>>> Score:
>>>
>>> Ischam 3
>>> Avery. 1
>>> Custom 2
>>>
>>> Thank you for the responses so far!!!
>>>
>>> I'll definetly add the hole punch, extra clecos, extra scotchbrite
>>> wheels, and a drdt2.
>>>
>>> I'll eBay the air drill and pneumatic sqeezer.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPod
>>>
>>> On Dec 30, 2009, at 5:56 PM, Luis Rodriguez <luis@cristabelle.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
<luis@cristabelle.net>
>>>>
>>>> Which tool kit is the most complete/best to order for the -10.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPod
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Automotive Spark Plugs |
The comparison should not be between aircraft and automotive plugs, it
should be between magnetos and electronic ignition. Automotive plugs are
not compatible with magnetos as the magneto spark is not sufficient for the
typically larger gaps in automotive plugs. While aircraft plugs will work
with electronic ignitions they provide, at best, no advantage over
automotive plugs. I also find the wide heat range availability of
automotive plugs a benefit to better match the engine/ignition combination.
The fact that the NGK BR8ES plugs that I use with my dual pMag install on my
8A cost $1.60 each is simply a side benefit.
The benefits provided by an electronic ignition like eMag or pMag is not
about the spark plugs.
Carl Froehlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AirMike
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 11:01 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Automotive Spark Plugs
I am not the sharpest tool in drawer, but why would you want to take a
chance with an automotive product to save a few bucks on a $40K engine.
Aircraft plugs are designed for A/C engines. Explain me?
--------
OSH '10 or Bust
Q/B - testing phase 1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279410#279410
Message 12
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| Subject: | Most complete tool kit |
The RV-10 is my 3rd kit but I never bought a complete tool kit, just what I
needed from time to time. Most from Avery (excellent quality and service)
but some from Harbor Freight (cheap and lacking quality). If you are near
other builders or there is a active EAA Chapter nearby, those guys can offer
advice (some good, some great, some ?) on what you need, how to use it,
and might even lend seldom used, expensive tools so that you can save money
for gas. By the time you buy your own you may have used what you are
thinking of buying and will will make better decisions I think. For
instance, I have found reaming the pilot holes rather than using a drill
leaves far less to deburr. And I borrowed a friends Fein Multitool for the
fiberglass top rather than buy one-good deal for me since I've never had any
need for one since.
Albert Gardner
N991RV
Yuma, AZ
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Automotive Spark Plugs |
Last time I ck'd, all the race cars with tons more $$$$'s in their engines,
use automotive plugs.- If aircraft plugs were-better, trust me, they'd
be using them.
Even the plugs Klaus recommends are automotive.
Don
--- On Thu, 12/31/09, AirMike <Mikeabel@Pacbell.net> wrote:
From: AirMike <Mikeabel@Pacbell.net>
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Automotive Spark Plugs
I am not the sharpest tool in drawer, but why would you want to take a chan
ce with an automotive product to save a few bucks on a $40K engine.
Aircraft plugs are designed for A/C engines. Explain me?
--------
OSH '10 or Bust
Q/B - testing phase 1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279410#279410
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Automotive Spark Plugs |
I'd be willing to bet those plugs John Force runs in his Funny Cars are a bit "different"
than standard auto plugs but in theory your right Don.
If I recall how it was explained to me, the plug needs to be able to burn off deposits
and keep firing even with a buildup. I believe that the plug doesn't know
so much what type of engine it is installed in but what type of ignition keeps
it firing cleanly. The people using automotive plugs are using electronic
ignition designed for automotive plugs, myself I have two conventional mags and
I use plugs designed to work with those magnetos. If you keep your plugs rotated,
cleaned and gapped properly they should go all the way to TBO. Unless you
drop one....then you get to bitch about how expensive they are.
Rick Sked
N246RS
---- Don McDonald <building_partner@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Last time I ck'd, all the race cars with tons more $$$$'s in their engines, use
automotive plugs. If aircraft plugs werebetter, trust me, they'd be using them.
> Even the plugs Klaus recommends are automotive.
> Don
>
>
> --- On Thu, 12/31/09, AirMike <Mikeabel@Pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>
> From: AirMike <Mikeabel@Pacbell.net>
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Automotive Spark Plugs
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, December 31, 2009, 8:00 AM
>
>
>
> I am not the sharpest tool in drawer, but why would you want to take a chance
with an automotive product to save a few bucks on a $40K engine.
> Aircraft plugs are designed for A/C engines. Explain me?
>
> --------
> OSH '10 or Bust
> Q/B - testing phase 1
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279410#279410
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> le, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Automotive Spark Plugs |
I learn something new EVERYDAY reading this list. Using automotive
spark plugs is a great saver.
Thanks for everyones input on the list.
Sent from my iPod
On Dec 30, 2009, at 8:27 PM, "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich@verizon.net
> wrote:
> >
>
> The standard setup for electronic ignitions and standard compression
> Lycoming engines is NGK BR8ES. You can typically get these for
> $1.60 or so
> each. Remember you will need to use an adapter. Here are a couple
> of links
> for the adapter
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/plugadapter.php or
> http://lightspeedengineering.com/Products/Sparkplugs.htm
>
> I'm running these plugs in my IO-360 (180hp) RV-8A for the last
> several
> hundred hours (eMag ignitions). I'll use them in the RV-10 assuming
> eMag
> gets their 6 cylinder EI done in time.
>
> Carl
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> rv8grover@verizon.net
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 7:59 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Automotive Spark Plugs
>
> <rv8grover@verizon.net>
>
> Is anyone using Automotive spark plugs with their electronic
> ignition on the
> IO-540 D5A4 engine??
>
> If so, what is the part number?
>
> I just dropped one of my UREM 38 S plugs and broke the ceramic. I've
> heard
> that Champion wants $75 for one of them.
>
> Ron Grover
> 40063
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279323#279323
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Overhead map and panel lighting options |
Bill,
I went with Stein's led lights; one for each seat. Based on the recommendation
of an ophthalmologist friend who has a stable of 6 planes( C150, C180 on floats,
Pitts S2, C421, Fuqua jet, Citation) I got the blue ones. His short explanation
is that blue is better for seeing things inside the cabin( maps, charts,
etc.) while red is better for seeing stuff outside.
The swivel on Stein's lights plus a dimmer makes for a very flexible lighting system.
Jim Berry
40482
N15JB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279434#279434
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Most complete tool kit |
While I've got the experts on the line...
I'm currently trying to acquire used tools (aka, on the cheap) to start
building an RV-10. I've been looking at ebay for drills, and realize I
don't quite know what I need.
In particular, when I read articles on building, I've seen multiple
references (including the Sioux web site) which say you need >5000rpm in a
drill for working with aluminum. But such a drill doesn't seem to exist,
and the drills that come with RV-10 tool kits tend to be around 2000rpm.
If I just buy one of the (many) older Sioux drills on ebay, am I likely to
be happy? Or do these things tend to wear out or break in funny ways when
they get older?
Chris
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 8:02 AM, Pascal <rv10builder@verizon.net> wrote:
> I looked at putting a keyless chuck on my Sioux, but in the end I never
> really felt that it was a big enough deal to actually do it. I think if one
> is frugal, like me, it certainly is worth just trying everything as is and
> upgrading those things that one really needs (or wants) no different than
> the kit itself, some items really "need" to be replaced/upgraded and many
> don't, others are fine as it is even though some have upgraded. My examples
> would focus around the landing gear; axle, extension, wheel, etc.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Bill Mauledriver Watson" <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 7:20 AM
>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
>
> MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
> >
> > I have the red one and not sure the teasing capability is very good, so
> > the Chicago sounds great. Keyless chuck? Can't imagine being without
> it.
> >
> > Kelly McMullen wrote:
> >>
> >> IMHO, your best deal on a drill is from Avery. The Chicago Pneumatic
> >> is compact, light, and has a very nice touch teasing trigger, for
> >> $125, or $155 with reversing. Sure a keyless chuck is nice, but is it
> >> worth an extra $70? Maybe Avery would make a deal combining the two.
> >>
> >> Luis Rodriguez wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Score:
> >>>
> >>> Ischam 3
> >>> Avery. 1
> >>> Custom 2
> >>>
> >>> Thank you for the responses so far!!!
> >>>
> >>> I'll definetly add the hole punch, extra clecos, extra scotchbrite
> >>> wheels, and a drdt2.
> >>>
> >>> I'll eBay the air drill and pneumatic sqeezer.
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPod
> >>>
> >>> On Dec 30, 2009, at 5:56 PM, Luis Rodriguez <luis@cristabelle.net>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >
> >>>>
> >>>> Which tool kit is the most complete/best to order for the -10.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from my iPod
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ==========
>
> > Support Your Lists This Month --
> > Get Some the Annual Contribution link Terrific Free www.aeroelectric.com
> > HomebuiltHELP Contribution Web bsp; ==========
> > RV10-List Email browse
> > Photoshare, and much ==========
> > bsp; via the ==========
> >
> >
> >
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Most complete tool kit |
Louis
The drill and pneumatic sqeezer are part of the ISM kit you want to get both
from them and I love the feel of the drill fits my hand perfectly.
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Luis Rodriguez
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 5:20 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
Score:
Ischam 3
Avery. 1
Custom 2
Thank you for the responses so far!!!
I'll definetly add the hole punch, extra clecos, extra scotchbrite
wheels, and a drdt2.
I'll eBay the air drill and pneumatic sqeezer.
Sent from my iPod
On Dec 30, 2009, at 5:56 PM, Luis Rodriguez <luis@cristabelle.net>
wrote:
>
> Which tool kit is the most complete/best to order for the -10.
>
>
> Sent from my iPod
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Most complete tool kit |
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Message 20
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| Subject: | Back rivet tailcone |
Can someone tell me the exact order to back rivet tailcone and if the
radius in the side and top skins can be back riveted
Russell Shavitz
Arlington Heights IL
847-417-6622
Message 21
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| Subject: | Most complete tool kit |
Chris, like the subject of Primer, tools bring out the personal side of
the RV-10 list. Several will tell you that one brand is better over
another. Most like the Beach Boys song "Be true to your school" have
not played the field much. The key is the feel, balance and weight in
Your Hands. Speed is indeed a factor in improving quality of
production. You can always regulate down a faster product for slower
cutting or deity forbid "Drill an errant rivet". The inverse is not
possible. Trueness of the "chucked bit" is another. Some chucks tend to
wear out more quickly than others. Many builders love the keyless
chuck. Noise of the pneumatics and consistent speed under load are two
metrics to measure your options against. Pilots tend to go deaf from
flying without noise cancelling headsets. Builders do it from their
pneumatic tools. Be sure and get protection that you enjoy wearing.
I have two Sioux palm reversibles and love them. I found the Dotco with
ergonomic grip to be even more comfortable. I cannot stand the
miniature (hard to find) special size key necessary to change items in
the Sioux chuck. I would love to have a keyless chuck in just one of
mine but there are tradeoffs when trying to back out a stuck bit that is
turning in the chuck. The reason I have two small drives (five in
total) is the convenience of have PRE set up a 0.030 bit, another with
the 0.040, another with a micro cage for countersinking and another for
scotchbrite disks on an arbor. Many of the micro cages will have a
bushing rather than a bearing and begin migrating at the end of the
build as your QC level becomes more demanding. And yes, I use both
reamers and Cogswell Deburr tools.
Some of us follow the path of Tiger Woods in life, I have a fetish for
tools. A quality tool in the hand of a craftsman, properly applied can
be a thing of beauty. For shops to die for, visit the archive of Bob
Newman's - TCW workshop. Pictures can be far more eloquent.
No one has yet mentioned a 90 or 45 degree drill for those tight spots
using 1/4" x 28 threaded bits. I even have a "East Indian" manufactured
pancake drill for hard to reach areas with only 1" of headroom. 60% of
my stuff has come from Ebay. About 10% gets re-sold so Caveat Emptor.
Many are building quality products with the most basic of builder tools.
A majority of builders learn about the tool options later in the build
rather than in the beginning. Few of them have been willing to sell
anything after completion of their kit. Others are fortunate enough to
have access to the DRDT2 dimpler or share it around with friends. That
will be the hardest tool to sneak past my wife in her random tours of
the hangar. Visit Tim Olson's site on how to engage your partner in the
build and its rewards.
Enjoy the journey and consider engaging one or several EAA Tech Advisors
(near you) to share with you the roads less traveled or infrequently
repaved by builder mistakes. Visit
http://www.eaa.org/video/homebuilders.html . Feel at ease contacting
builders Offline - Anytime.
John Cox
Aurora, OR
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Colohan
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
While I've got the experts on the line...
I'm currently trying to acquire used tools (aka, on the cheap) to start
building an RV-10. I've been looking at ebay for drills, and realize I
don't quite know what I need.
In particular, when I read articles on building, I've seen multiple
references (including the Sioux web site) which say you need >5000rpm in
a drill for working with aluminum. But such a drill doesn't seem to
exist, and the drills that come with RV-10 tool kits tend to be around
2000rpm.
If I just buy one of the (many) older Sioux drills on ebay, am I likely
to be happy? Or do these things tend to wear out or break in funny ways
when they get older?
Chris
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 8:02 AM, Pascal <rv10builder@verizon.net> wrote:
I looked at putting a keyless chuck on my Sioux, but in the end I never
really felt that it was a big enough deal to actually do it. I think if
one is frugal, like me, it certainly is worth just trying everything as
is and upgrading those things that one really needs (or wants) no
different than the kit itself, some items really "need" to be
replaced/upgraded and many don't, others are fine as it is even though
some have upgraded. My examples would focus around the landing gear;
axle, extension, wheel, etc.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Bill Mauledriver Watson" <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 7:20 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
<MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
>
> I have the red one and not sure the teasing capability is very good,
so
> the Chicago sounds great. Keyless chuck? Can't imagine being without
it.
>
> Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>
>> IMHO, your best deal on a drill is from Avery. The Chicago Pneumatic
>> is compact, light, and has a very nice touch teasing trigger, for
>> $125, or $155 with reversing. Sure a keyless chuck is nice, but is it
>> worth an extra $70? Maybe Avery would make a deal combining the two.
>>
>> Luis Rodriguez wrote:
<luis@cristabelle.net>
>>>
>>> Score:
>>>
>>> Ischam 3
>>> Avery. 1
>>> Custom 2
>>>
>>> Thank you for the responses so far!!!
>>>
>>> I'll definetly add the hole punch, extra clecos, extra scotchbrite
>>> wheels, and a drdt2.
>>>
>>> I'll eBay the air drill and pneumatic sqeezer.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPod
>>>
>>> On Dec 30, 2009, at 5:56 PM, Luis Rodriguez <luis@cristabelle.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
<luis@cristabelle.net>
>>>>
>>>> Which tool kit is the most complete/best to order for the -10.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPod
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ==========
> Support Your Lists This Month --
> Get Some the Annual Contribution link Terrific Free
www.aeroelectric.com
> HomebuiltHELP Contribution Web bsp;
> RV10-List Email browse
> Photoshare, and much ==========
> bsp; via the ==========
>
>
>
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
nk">www.howtocrimp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
Message 22
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| Subject: | Most complete tool kit |
John
Nicely said.
John G. Cumins
40864 Emp in deburr mode then dimpling then Primer Yes I won the primer
war!!!!!
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 11:23 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
Chris, like the subject of Primer, tools bring out the personal side of the
RV-10 list. Several will tell you that one brand is better over another.
Most like the Beach Boys song "Be true to your school" have not played the
field much. The key is the feel, balance and weight in Your Hands. Speed is
indeed a factor in improving quality of production. You can always regulate
down a faster product for slower cutting or deity forbid "Drill an errant
rivet". The inverse is not possible. Trueness of the "chucked bit" is
another. Some chucks tend to wear out more quickly than others. Many
builders love the keyless chuck. Noise of the pneumatics and consistent
speed under load are two metrics to measure your options against. Pilots
tend to go deaf from flying without noise cancelling headsets. Builders do
it from their pneumatic tools. Be sure and get protection that you enjoy
wearing.
I have two Sioux palm reversibles and love them. I found the Dotco with
ergonomic grip to be even more comfortable. I cannot stand the miniature
(hard to find) special size key necessary to change items in the Sioux
chuck. I would love to have a keyless chuck in just one of mine but there
are tradeoffs when trying to back out a stuck bit that is turning in the
chuck. The reason I have two small drives (five in total) is the
convenience of have PRE set up a 0.030 bit, another with the 0.040, another
with a micro cage for countersinking and another for scotchbrite disks on an
arbor. Many of the micro cages will have a bushing rather than a bearing
and begin migrating at the end of the build as your QC level becomes more
demanding. And yes, I use both reamers and Cogswell Deburr tools.
Some of us follow the path of Tiger Woods in life, I have a fetish for
tools. A quality tool in the hand of a craftsman, properly applied can be a
thing of beauty. For shops to die for, visit the archive of Bob Newman's -
TCW workshop. Pictures can be far more eloquent.
No one has yet mentioned a 90 or 45 degree drill for those tight spots using
1/4" x 28 threaded bits. I even have a "East Indian" manufactured pancake
drill for hard to reach areas with only 1" of headroom. 60% of my stuff has
come from Ebay. About 10% gets re-sold so Caveat Emptor.
Many are building quality products with the most basic of builder tools. A
majority of builders learn about the tool options later in the build rather
than in the beginning. Few of them have been willing to sell anything after
completion of their kit. Others are fortunate enough to have access to the
DRDT2 dimpler or share it around with friends. That will be the hardest
tool to sneak past my wife in her random tours of the hangar. Visit Tim
Olson's site on how to engage your partner in the build and its rewards.
Enjoy the journey and consider engaging one or several EAA Tech Advisors
(near you) to share with you the roads less traveled or infrequently repaved
by builder mistakes. Visit http://www.eaa.org/video/homebuilders.html .
Feel at ease contacting builders Offline - Anytime.
John Cox
Aurora, OR
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Colohan
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
While I've got the experts on the line...
I'm currently trying to acquire used tools (aka, on the cheap) to start
building an RV-10. I've been looking at ebay for drills, and realize I
don't quite know what I need.
In particular, when I read articles on building, I've seen multiple
references (including the Sioux web site) which say you need >5000rpm in a
drill for working with aluminum. But such a drill doesn't seem to exist,
and the drills that come with RV-10 tool kits tend to be around 2000rpm.
If I just buy one of the (many) older Sioux drills on ebay, am I likely to
be happy? Or do these things tend to wear out or break in funny ways when
they get older?
Chris
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 8:02 AM, Pascal <rv10builder@verizon.net> wrote:
I looked at putting a keyless chuck on my Sioux, but in the end I never
really felt that it was a big enough deal to actually do it. I think if one
is frugal, like me, it certainly is worth just trying everything as is and
upgrading those things that one really needs (or wants) no different than
the kit itself, some items really "need" to be replaced/upgraded and many
don't, others are fine as it is even though some have upgraded. My examples
would focus around the landing gear; axle, extension, wheel, etc.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Bill Mauledriver Watson" <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 7:20 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
<MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
>
> I have the red one and not sure the teasing capability is very good, so
> the Chicago sounds great. Keyless chuck? Can't imagine being without it.
>
> Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>
>> IMHO, your best deal on a drill is from Avery. The Chicago Pneumatic
>> is compact, light, and has a very nice touch teasing trigger, for
>> $125, or $155 with reversing. Sure a keyless chuck is nice, but is it
>> worth an extra $70? Maybe Avery would make a deal combining the two.
>>
>> Luis Rodriguez wrote:
>>>
>>> Score:
>>>
>>> Ischam 3
>>> Avery. 1
>>> Custom 2
>>>
>>> Thank you for the responses so far!!!
>>>
>>> I'll definetly add the hole punch, extra clecos, extra scotchbrite
>>> wheels, and a drdt2.
>>>
>>> I'll eBay the air drill and pneumatic sqeezer.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPod
>>>
>>> On Dec 30, 2009, at 5:56 PM, Luis Rodriguez <luis@cristabelle.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Which tool kit is the most complete/best to order for the -10.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPod
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ==========
> Support Your Lists This Month --
> Get Some the Annual Contribution link Terrific Free www.aeroelectric.com
> HomebuiltHELP Contribution Web bsp; ==========
> RV10-List Email browse
> Photoshare, and much ==========
> bsp; via the ==========
>
>
>
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
nk">www.howtocrimp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
www.aeroelectric.com
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Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Back rivet tailcone |
It has been a long time since I did my tailcone, but with some help I was able
to back rivet the radius of the side skins. I bucked the top. I just stared at
one end (can't remember front or back) and riveted the radius starting from the
bottom and working my way around to the side. When the radius was done, I went
to the next bulkhead before doing the side skins. It can be done, but I don't
recall it being any easier in the radius that it would have been bucking,
and I still needed help to hold the tailcone while I riveted.
Eric Kallio
N518RV wiring and panel installation
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279457#279457
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Automotive Spark Plugs |
For those who frequent OSH seminars, Champion is often conducting Educational Seminars
that can be both informative and entertaining. Then you can take what
they say with a grain of salt. The Aviation plug is designed and constructed
for an entirely more reliable purpose than automotive. If there were only as
many aviation plugs in use as Asian manufactured automotive we might see the competitive
forces of price make that subject a Non Issue. There is a big increase
in consumable cost. As a youth, when I was drag racing, I had three sets
of entirely different plugs for atmospheric changes on the track. We called
that a Pit Stop.
Mikes post was about cost/benefit.
TBO: The original Rotax TBOs were down around 1,000 hours now they are improving
to match Lyco/Continental. Turbo powered engines create additional needs on
the plug design and the TBO reflects the Trade Off of additional power output
yet I have never seen a plug properly rotated, cleaned, gapped and not dropped
that went 2,000 TBO... maybe 1000 hours.
Rick, when you get back from the airport can you tell us which plug to buy? The
Champion Go/No Go gage included a measure of when the anode of the plug has sacrificed
enough metal to no longer have enough mass to continue reliably in service
(between Annuals - I mean Conditionals). Plugs should be matched for reliability
and performance for the environment they operate and the source of
power they are provided. Last week there was discussion of blast tubes to the
Mag without discussion on when pressurized mags provide additional value - that
is another subject. The tubes discussed were for cooling the Mag case and
reducing the failure rate of the condenser inside.
Till you have seen an auto plug blow out, an anode burn off, an improper heat range
plug or the damage from a decaying magneto, or the failure of an electronic
ignition system you just have not experienced all the fun that is out there
for us all.
The decision of cost/benefit is not in VANS hands, it is in the many choices we
make as the Manufacturer and the QC that we put on our product before the name
goes on. I have respect for both the workmanship of Rick's and Don's aircraft.
To me it's not about the $40,000. A close friend once said "When the engine
stops in flight, a fire breaks out or you fly without gas.... The aircraft
is instantly the property of the insurance company and your estate." Bob Hoover
said " It is the job of every good pilot to fly the aircraft to the landing
site, walk away with all the passengers that were onboard and assess your estate
value over a stiff drink". Sully was this year's hero for following to a
T that exact mantra. I have lost a few friends over the years who tried to do
the impossible or cut a corner or two while traveling life's highway. Let's
have another year of no lost RV-10s or their pilots.
Here is a question for New Years Eve - "How many of you check the resistance of
your plugs at each annual?"
John Cox
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ricksked@cox.net
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Automotive Spark Plugs
I'd be willing to bet those plugs John Force runs in his Funny Cars are a bit "different"
than standard auto plugs but in theory your right Don.
If I recall how it was explained to me, the plug needs to be able to burn off deposits
and keep firing even with a buildup. I believe that the plug doesn't know
so much what type of engine it is installed in but what type of ignition keeps
it firing cleanly. The people using automotive plugs are using electronic
ignition designed for automotive plugs, myself I have two conventional mags and
I use plugs designed to work with those magnetos. If you keep your plugs rotated,
cleaned and gapped properly they should go all the way to TBO. Unless you
drop one....then you get to bitch about how expensive they are.
Rick Sked
N246RS
---- Don McDonald <building_partner@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Last time I ck'd, all the race cars with tons more $$$$'s in their engines, use
automotive plugs. If aircraft plugs werebetter, trust me, they'd be using them.
> Even the plugs Klaus recommends are automotive.
> Don
>
>
> --- On Thu, 12/31/09, AirMike <Mikeabel@Pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>
> From: AirMike <Mikeabel@Pacbell.net>
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Automotive Spark Plugs
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, December 31, 2009, 8:00 AM
>
>
>
> I am not the sharpest tool in drawer, but why would you want to take a chance
with an automotive product to save a few bucks on a $40K engine.
> Aircraft plugs are designed for A/C engines. Explain me?
>
> --------
> OSH '10 or Bust
> Q/B - testing phase 1
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279410#279410
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> le, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Back rivet tailcone |
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cy5jb20+DQpTZW50OiBUaHUgRGVjIDMxIDExOjQyOjMwIDIwMDkNClN1YmplY3Q6IFJWMTAtTGlz
dDogUmU6IEJhY2sgcml2ZXQgdGFpbGNvbmUNCg0KLS0+IFJWMTAtTGlzdCBtZXNzYWdlIHBvc3Rl
ZCBieTogIkVyaWNfS2FsbGlvIiA8c2NvdXQwMTlAbXNuLmNvbT4NCg0KSXQgaGFzIGJlZW4gYSBs
b25nIHRpbWUgc2luY2UgSSBkaWQgbXkgdGFpbGNvbmUsIGJ1dCB3aXRoIHNvbWUgaGVscCBJIHdh
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Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Most complete tool kit |
Chris,
I used a makita cordless drill so far in the build process(currently worki
ng on fuselage). I purchased a CP reversible drill and I didn't like havin
g to wear ear plugs all the time (kind of loud) or lugging the air hose ar
ound with me. As far as the rest of the tools I wouldn't do without my tun
gsten bucking bar. I just wish I would have bought it at the beginning.
Jeff Nichols
#40648
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Colohan <rv10@colohan.com>
Sent: Thu, Dec 31, 2009 11:55 am
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
While I've got the experts on the line...
I'm currently trying to acquire used tools (aka, on the cheap) to start bu
ilding an RV-10. I've been looking at ebay for drills, and realize I don'
t quite know what I need.
In particular, when I read articles on building, I've seen multiple refere
nces (including the Sioux web site) which say you need >5000rpm in a drill
for working with aluminum. But such a drill doesn't seem to exist, and
the drills that come with RV-10 tool kits tend to be around 2000rpm.
If I just buy one of the (many) older Sioux drills on ebay, am I likely to
be happy? Or do these things tend to wear out or break in funny ways whe
n they get older?
Chris
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 8:02 AM, Pascal <rv10builder@verizon.net> wrote:
I looked at putting a keyless chuck on my Sioux, but in the end I never re
ally felt that it was a big enough deal to actually do it. I think if one
is frugal, like me, it certainly is worth just trying everything as is an
d upgrading those things that one really needs (or wants) no different tha
n the kit itself, some items really "need" to be replaced/upgraded and man
y don't, others are fine as it is even though some have upgraded. My examp
les would focus around the landing gear; axle, extension, wheel, etc.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Bill Mauledriver Watson" <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 7:20 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
.rr.com>
>
> I have the red one and not sure the teasing capability is very good, so
> the Chicago sounds great. Keyless chuck? Can't imagine being without
it.
>
> Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>
>> IMHO, your best deal on a drill is from Avery. The Chicago Pneumatic
>> is compact, light, and has a very nice touch teasing trigger, for
>> $125, or $155 with reversing. Sure a keyless chuck is nice, but is it
>> worth an extra $70? Maybe Avery would make a deal combining the two.
>>
>> Luis Rodriguez wrote:
>>>
>>> Score:
>>>
>>> Ischam 3
>>> Avery. 1
>>> Custom 2
>>>
>>> Thank you for the responses so far!!!
>>>
>>> I'll definetly add the hole punch, extra clecos, extra scotchbrite
>>> wheels, and a drdt2.
>>>
>>> I'll eBay the air drill and pneumatic sqeezer.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPod
>>>
>>> On Dec 30, 2009, at 5:56 PM, Luis Rodriguez <luis@cristabelle.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>
>>>>
>>>> Which tool kit is the most complete/best to order for the -10.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPod
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ==========
> Support Your Lists This Month --
> Get Some the Annual Contribution link Terrific Free www.aeroelectric.com
> HomebuiltHELP Contribution Web bsp; ======
====
> RV10-List Email browse
> Photoshare, and much ==========
> bsp; via the ==========
>
>
>
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
"_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
k">www.howtocrimp.com
blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
p://forums.matronics.com
========================
===========
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Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Automotive Spark Plugs |
Agreed. I have not seen a set of aviation plugs go more than 500 hours. I
usually have them cleaned, gapped and check by an IA each annual; I don't
have the EASY tools. IIRC the Glastar O360A4M and the 10 IO540D4A5 both take
the same plug. Normally at about 350-400 hours some of the plugs will not
pass the test. At that point I install a new set and keep the serviceable
plugs in the tool box (you do have a tool box (including spares) in the
baggage area?). In about 4000 hours I have had a single ignition problem
(TC177RG) which required an urgent landing. Fortunately the mechanic in
Central Kansas had a serviceable plug in his bag of tricks and I was able to
be on my way to OSH with little delay. If you are using aviation plugs,
check them at the annual; if you are using automotive plugs they are
inexpensive enough to check/install new at each annual. If using automotive,
I suggest you carry an extra box to avoid a trip to an auto store at an
inconvenient time.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 12:51 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Automotive Spark Plugs
For those who frequent OSH seminars, Champion is often conducting
Educational Seminars that can be both informative and entertaining. Then
you can take what they say with a grain of salt. The Aviation plug is
designed and constructed for an entirely more reliable purpose than
automotive. If there were only as many aviation plugs in use as Asian
manufactured automotive we might see the competitive forces of price make
that subject a Non Issue. There is a big increase in consumable cost. As a
youth, when I was drag racing, I had three sets of entirely different plugs
for atmospheric changes on the track. We called that a Pit Stop.
Mikes post was about cost/benefit.
TBO: The original Rotax TBOs were down around 1,000 hours now they are
improving to match Lyco/Continental. Turbo powered engines create
additional needs on the plug design and the TBO reflects the Trade Off of
additional power output yet I have never seen a plug properly rotated,
cleaned, gapped and not dropped that went 2,000 TBO... maybe 1000 hours.
Rick, when you get back from the airport can you tell us which plug to buy?
The Champion Go/No Go gage included a measure of when the anode of the plug
has sacrificed enough metal to no longer have enough mass to continue
reliably in service (between Annuals - I mean Conditionals). Plugs should
be matched for reliability and performance for the environment they operate
and the source of power they are provided. Last week there was discussion
of blast tubes to the Mag without discussion on when pressurized mags
provide additional value - that is another subject. The tubes discussed
were for cooling the Mag case and reducing the failure rate of the condenser
inside.
Till you have seen an auto plug blow out, an anode burn off, an improper
heat range plug or the damage from a decaying magneto, or the failure of an
electronic ignition system you just have not experienced all the fun that is
out there for us all.
The decision of cost/benefit is not in VANS hands, it is in the many choices
we make as the Manufacturer and the QC that we put on our product before the
name goes on. I have respect for both the workmanship of Rick's and Don's
aircraft. To me it's not about the $40,000. A close friend once said "When
the engine stops in flight, a fire breaks out or you fly without gas.... The
aircraft is instantly the property of the insurance company and your
estate." Bob Hoover said " It is the job of every good pilot to fly the
aircraft to the landing site, walk away with all the passengers that were
onboard and assess your estate value over a stiff drink". Sully was this
year's hero for following to a T that exact mantra. I have lost a few
friends over the years who tried to do the impossible or cut a corner or two
while traveling life's highway. Let's have another year of no lost RV-10s
or their pilots.
Here is a question for New Years Eve - "How many of you check the resistance
of your plugs at each annual?"
John Cox
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ricksked@cox.net
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Automotive Spark Plugs
I'd be willing to bet those plugs John Force runs in his Funny Cars are a
bit "different" than standard auto plugs but in theory your right Don.
If I recall how it was explained to me, the plug needs to be able to burn
off deposits and keep firing even with a buildup. I believe that the plug
doesn't know so much what type of engine it is installed in but what type of
ignition keeps it firing cleanly. The people using automotive plugs are
using electronic ignition designed for automotive plugs, myself I have two
conventional mags and I use plugs designed to work with those magnetos. If
you keep your plugs rotated, cleaned and gapped properly they should go all
the way to TBO. Unless you drop one....then you get to bitch about how
expensive they are.
Rick Sked
N246RS
---- Don McDonald <building_partner@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Last time I ck'd, all the race cars with tons more $$$$'s in their
engines, use automotive plugs. If aircraft plugs werebetter, trust me,
they'd be using them.
> Even the plugs Klaus recommends are automotive.
> Don
>
>
> --- On Thu, 12/31/09, AirMike <Mikeabel@Pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>
> From: AirMike <Mikeabel@Pacbell.net>
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Automotive Spark Plugs
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, December 31, 2009, 8:00 AM
>
>
>
> I am not the sharpest tool in drawer, but why would you want to take a
chance with an automotive product to save a few bucks on a $40K engine.
> Aircraft plugs are designed for A/C engines. Explain me?
>
> --------
> OSH '10 or Bust
> Q/B - testing phase 1
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279410#279410
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> le, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Automotive Spark Plugs |
Don't you have to overhaul these tractor engines at 500 hours? Hmmm. 2000 hours
is GREAT news!!! I retract my TBO plug comment now that I'm correctly informed.
:). And for all you rivet pounders out there....I'm 1.5 hours closer to that
overhaul!!
Rick Sked
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: "John Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Automotive Spark Plugs
For those who frequent OSH seminars, Champion is often conducting Educational Seminars
that can be both informative and entertaining. Then you can take what
they say with a grain of salt. The Aviation plug is designed and constructed
for an entirely more reliable purpose than automotive. If there were only as
many aviation plugs in use as Asian manufactured automotive we might see the competitive
forces of price make that subject a Non Issue. There is a big increase
in consumable cost. As a youth, when I was drag racing, I had three sets
of entirely different plugs for atmospheric changes on the track. We called
that a Pit Stop.
Mikes post was about cost/benefit.
TBO: The original Rotax TBOs were down around 1,000 hours now they are improving
to match Lyco/Continental. Turbo powered engines create additional needs on
the plug design and the TBO reflects the Trade Off of additional power output
yet I have never seen a plug properly rotated, cleaned, gapped and not dropped
that went 2,000 TBO... maybe 1000 hours.
Rick, when you get back from the airport can you tell us which plug to buy? The
Champion Go/No Go gage included a measure of when the anode of the plug has sacrificed
enough metal to no longer have enough mass to continue reliably in service
(between Annuals - I mean Conditionals). Plugs should be matched for reliability
and performance for the environment they operate and the source of
power they are provided. Last week there was discussion of blast tubes to the
Mag without discussion on when pressurized mags provide additional value - that
is another subject. The tubes discussed were for cooling the Mag case and
reducing the failure rate of the condenser inside.
Till you have seen an auto plug blow out, an anode burn off, an improper heat range
plug or the damage from a decaying magneto, or the failure of an electronic
ignition system you just have not experienced all the fun that is out there
for us all.
The decision of cost/benefit is not in VANS hands, it is in the many choices we
make as the Manufacturer and the QC that we put on our product before the name
goes on. I have respect for both the workmanship of Rick's and Don's aircraft.
To me it's not about the $40,000. A close friend once said "When the engine
stops in flight, a fire breaks out or you fly without gas.... The aircraft
is instantly the property of the insurance company and your estate." Bob Hoover
said " It is the job of every good pilot to fly the aircraft to the landing
site, walk away with all the passengers that were onboard and assess your estate
value over a stiff drink". Sully was this year's hero for following to a
T that exact mantra. I have lost a few friends over the years who tried to do
the impossible or cut a corner or two while traveling life's highway. Let's
have another year of no lost RV-10s or their pilots.
Here is a question for New Years Eve - "How many of you check the resistance of
your plugs at each annual?"
John Cox
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ricksked@cox.net
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Automotive Spark Plugs
I'd be willing to bet those plugs John Force runs in his Funny Cars are a bit "different"
than standard auto plugs but in theory your right Don.
If I recall how it was explained to me, the plug needs to be able to burn off deposits
and keep firing even with a buildup. I believe that the plug doesn't know
so much what type of engine it is installed in but what type of ignition keeps
it firing cleanly. The people using automotive plugs are using electronic
ignition designed for automotive plugs, myself I have two conventional mags and
I use plugs designed to work with those magnetos. If you keep your plugs rotated,
cleaned and gapped properly they should go all the way to TBO. Unless you
drop one....then you get to bitch about how expensive they are.
Rick Sked
N246RS
---- Don McDonald <building_partner@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Last time I ck'd, all the race cars with tons more $$$$'s in their engines, use
automotive plugs. If aircraft plugs werebetter, trust me, they'd be using them.
> Even the plugs Klaus recommends are automotive.
> Don
>
>
> --- On Thu, 12/31/09, AirMike <Mikeabel@Pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>
> From: AirMike <Mikeabel@Pacbell.net>
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Automotive Spark Plugs
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, December 31, 2009, 8:00 AM
>
>
>
> I am not the sharpest tool in drawer, but why would you want to take a chance
with an automotive product to save a few bucks on a $40K engine.
> Aircraft plugs are designed for A/C engines. Explain me?
>
> --------
> OSH '10 or Bust
> Q/B - testing phase 1
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279410#279410
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> le, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: Automotive Spark Plugs |
As I have only had Dual Mags on now 9 different planes what do people use with
one electronic and one Mag? Automotive plugs on the electronic and Aviation plugs
on the Mag?
Robin
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Most complete tool kit |
Don't forget a Torque Wrench that works in inch-pounds.
--------
#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit progressing. Engine on floor &
Panel delivery soon.
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279494#279494
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Automotive Spark Plugs |
Yep.
Do not archive
On Dec 31, 2009, at 3:16 PM, "Robin Marks" <robin1@mrmoisture.com>
wrote:
>
> As I have only had Dual Mags on now 9 different planes what do
> people use with one electronic and one Mag? Automotive plugs on the
> electronic and Aviation plugs on the Mag?
>
> Robin
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: rudder skins |
I found it best to speak with the individual inspector from MD-RA. Our inspector
was fine with being able to roll back one skin and look in. I'm sure with the
first inspections he will want to see all rivets, both shop and bucked heads.
Later , if your work meets his approval he may let you close up small areas
so the component will have a larger amount of work completed to inspect. He will
use a mirror or bore scope ( if you have access to one) to look inside the
closed in areas.
Ron
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279503#279503
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Counterbalance Holes |
I used my Drummel , which has the long flexible shaft extension and a small sanding
drum. Very quick and easy.
Ron
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279504#279504
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Automotive Spark Plugs |
Robin,
We have used IO540-C4B5. We are running a
Lightspeed Plasma III on the left side and the original mag on the right
side. I have the automotive plugs in the top of the cylinders and
the aircraft mag plugs on the bottom. We start on the electronic
ignition. RPM drop on the mags only is much higher than the
electronics only mode.
Waiting with plans to upgrade the right
mag to a P-Mag or E-Mag if they ever get them done for the 540
series. But may also end up just installing a second Lightspeed when
the mag finally give up.
Working well for us.
Jim C
(N312F - Doing the first condition inspection now in a COLD hanger!)
Do Not Archive
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<robin1@mrmoisture.com>
As I have only had Dual Mags on
now 9 different planes what do people use
with one electronic and one
Mag? Automotive plugs on the electronic and
Aviation plugs on the
Mag?
Robin
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Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Most complete tool kit |
Yes, that's another tool to add.
Sent from my iPod
On Dec 31, 2009, at 4:47 PM, "johngoodman" <johngoodman@earthlink.net>
wrote:
> >
>
> Don't forget a Torque Wrench that works in inch-pounds.
>
> --------
> #40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit progressing. Engine
> on floor & Panel delivery soon.
> N711JG reserved
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279494#279494
>
>
Message 36
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|
| Subject: | Re: Back rivet tailcone |
That is exactly how Mary and I riveted our tailcone.
David Maib
40559
Flying
On Dec 31, 2009, at 2:59 PM, Perry, Phil wrote:
Don't remember the order I did it, but it was consistent with the plans.
Everything was back riveted for me with the exception of the extreme
aft tail cone where it became too narrow to fit the rivet gun into.
However instead of using a back rivet plate, we back riveted against
a bucking bar. Moving the bucking bar around from rivet to rivet was
much easier than rolling the tail cone around on a table.
The wife helped me out with running the bucking bar while I shot them
from the inside with my Avery 3x Rivet Gun that fits my hand
perfectly and has given me years of trouble-free service. :p
Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: Eric_Kallio <scout019@msn.com>
Sent: Thu Dec 31 11:42:30 2009
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Back rivet tailcone
It has been a long time since I did my tailcone, but with some help I
was able to back rivet the radius of the side skins. I bucked the
top. I just stared at one end (can't remember front or back) and
riveted the radius starting from the bottom and working my way around
to the side. When the radius was done, I went to the next bulkhead
before doing the side skins. It can be done, but I don't recall it
being any easier in the radius that it would have been bucking, and I
still needed help to hold the tailcone while I riveted.
Eric Kallio
N518RV wiring and panel installation
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279457#279457
Message 37
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| Subject: | Most complete tool kit |
Yes, very nicely said.
Another tool with a lot of variables is a hand squeezer. Yes, you should have
a power squeezer. But you will also need a hand squeezer too. Having had the
chance to use 3 or 4 different models before buying, I had a definite preference.
Others had a different preference. But experience really guided our preferences.
If you can find any way to try different types out, it will pay off.
But what you don't know won't really hurt you either.
Bill
---- John Cumins <jcumins@jcis.net> wrote:
> John
>
>
>
> Nicely said.
>
>
>
> John G. Cumins
>
>
>
> 40864 Emp in deburr mode then dimpling then Primer Yes I won the primer
> war!!!!!
>
>
>
>
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox
> Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 11:23 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
>
>
>
> Chris, like the subject of Primer, tools bring out the personal side of the
> RV-10 list. Several will tell you that one brand is better over another.
> Most like the Beach Boys song "Be true to your school" have not played the
> field much. The key is the feel, balance and weight in Your Hands. Speed is
> indeed a factor in improving quality of production. You can always regulate
> down a faster product for slower cutting or deity forbid "Drill an errant
> rivet". The inverse is not possible. Trueness of the "chucked bit" is
> another. Some chucks tend to wear out more quickly than others. Many
> builders love the keyless chuck. Noise of the pneumatics and consistent
> speed under load are two metrics to measure your options against. Pilots
> tend to go deaf from flying without noise cancelling headsets. Builders do
> it from their pneumatic tools. Be sure and get protection that you enjoy
> wearing.
>
>
>
> I have two Sioux palm reversibles and love them. I found the Dotco with
> ergonomic grip to be even more comfortable. I cannot stand the miniature
> (hard to find) special size key necessary to change items in the Sioux
> chuck. I would love to have a keyless chuck in just one of mine but there
> are tradeoffs when trying to back out a stuck bit that is turning in the
> chuck. The reason I have two small drives (five in total) is the
> convenience of have PRE set up a 0.030 bit, another with the 0.040, another
> with a micro cage for countersinking and another for scotchbrite disks on an
> arbor. Many of the micro cages will have a bushing rather than a bearing
> and begin migrating at the end of the build as your QC level becomes more
> demanding. And yes, I use both reamers and Cogswell Deburr tools.
>
>
>
> Some of us follow the path of Tiger Woods in life, I have a fetish for
> tools. A quality tool in the hand of a craftsman, properly applied can be a
> thing of beauty. For shops to die for, visit the archive of Bob Newman's -
> TCW workshop. Pictures can be far more eloquent.
>
>
>
> No one has yet mentioned a 90 or 45 degree drill for those tight spots using
> 1/4" x 28 threaded bits. I even have a "East Indian" manufactured pancake
> drill for hard to reach areas with only 1" of headroom. 60% of my stuff has
> come from Ebay. About 10% gets re-sold so Caveat Emptor.
>
>
>
> Many are building quality products with the most basic of builder tools. A
> majority of builders learn about the tool options later in the build rather
> than in the beginning. Few of them have been willing to sell anything after
> completion of their kit. Others are fortunate enough to have access to the
> DRDT2 dimpler or share it around with friends. That will be the hardest
> tool to sneak past my wife in her random tours of the hangar. Visit Tim
> Olson's site on how to engage your partner in the build and its rewards.
>
>
>
> Enjoy the journey and consider engaging one or several EAA Tech Advisors
> (near you) to share with you the roads less traveled or infrequently repaved
> by builder mistakes. Visit http://www.eaa.org/video/homebuilders.html .
> Feel at ease contacting builders Offline - Anytime.
>
>
>
>
>
> John Cox
>
> Aurora, OR
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Colohan
> Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 9:55 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
>
>
>
> While I've got the experts on the line...
>
>
>
> I'm currently trying to acquire used tools (aka, on the cheap) to start
> building an RV-10. I've been looking at ebay for drills, and realize I
> don't quite know what I need.
>
>
>
> In particular, when I read articles on building, I've seen multiple
> references (including the Sioux web site) which say you need >5000rpm in a
> drill for working with aluminum. But such a drill doesn't seem to exist,
> and the drills that come with RV-10 tool kits tend to be around 2000rpm.
>
>
>
> If I just buy one of the (many) older Sioux drills on ebay, am I likely to
> be happy? Or do these things tend to wear out or break in funny ways when
> they get older?
>
>
>
> Chris
>
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 8:02 AM, Pascal <rv10builder@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> I looked at putting a keyless chuck on my Sioux, but in the end I never
> really felt that it was a big enough deal to actually do it. I think if one
> is frugal, like me, it certainly is worth just trying everything as is and
> upgrading those things that one really needs (or wants) no different than
> the kit itself, some items really "need" to be replaced/upgraded and many
> don't, others are fine as it is even though some have upgraded. My examples
> would focus around the landing gear; axle, extension, wheel, etc.
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Bill Mauledriver Watson" <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 7:20 AM
>
>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
>
> <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
> >
> > I have the red one and not sure the teasing capability is very good, so
> > the Chicago sounds great. Keyless chuck? Can't imagine being without it.
> >
> > Kelly McMullen wrote:
> >>
> >> IMHO, your best deal on a drill is from Avery. The Chicago Pneumatic
> >> is compact, light, and has a very nice touch teasing trigger, for
> >> $125, or $155 with reversing. Sure a keyless chuck is nice, but is it
> >> worth an extra $70? Maybe Avery would make a deal combining the two.
> >>
>
> >> Luis Rodriguez wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Score:
> >>>
> >>> Ischam 3
> >>> Avery. 1
> >>> Custom 2
> >>>
> >>> Thank you for the responses so far!!!
> >>>
> >>> I'll definetly add the hole punch, extra clecos, extra scotchbrite
> >>> wheels, and a drdt2.
> >>>
> >>> I'll eBay the air drill and pneumatic sqeezer.
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPod
> >>>
> >>> On Dec 30, 2009, at 5:56 PM, Luis Rodriguez <luis@cristabelle.net>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Which tool kit is the most complete/best to order for the -10.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from my iPod
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
> > ==========
>
>
> > Support Your Lists This Month --
>
> > Get Some the Annual Contribution link Terrific Free www.aeroelectric.com
> > HomebuiltHELP Contribution Web bsp; ==========
> > RV10-List Email browse
> > Photoshare, and much ==========
> > bsp; via the ==========
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>
> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
> nk">www.howtocrimp.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> www.aeroelectric.com
> www.buildersbooks.com
> www.homebuilthelp.com
> www.howtocrimp.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
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>
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>
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Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Back rivet tailcone |
In addition to all of the above, you can back rivet the J-channel stiffeners to
the top skin before clecoing the skin to the bulkheads. Just leave out the rivets
where the stiffeners cross a bulkhead. Saves a lot of riveting inside the
tailcone. I back riveted all but about a dozen rivets in the narrowest part of
the cone by myself, using a couple of pillows to position the cone against the
rivet plate.
Jim Berry
40482
N15JB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279515#279515
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Most complete tool kit |
I would disagree on the drill. I got the standard drill in Isham's kit.
After completing the empenage I developed trigger finger syndrome,
partly because that drill has a stiff trigger that is very difficult to
get anything but max rpm. The Chicago Pneumatic I mentioned or a Sioux
have far better triggers that take less effort and easy control from 5
rpm to max rpm.
John Cumins wrote:
>
> Louis
>
> The drill and pneumatic sqeezer are part of the ISM kit you want to get both
> from them and I love the feel of the drill fits my hand perfectly.
> John G. Cumins
> President
>
> JC'S Interactive Systems
> 2499 B1 Martin Rd
> Fairfield Ca 94533
> 707-425-7100
> 707-425-7576 Fax
>
> Your Total Technology Solution Provider
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Most complete tool kit |
you'll find that any tool will work, you probably saw a post today from
someone using a battery powered drill, he might be getting 600rpm max
far short of 2000rpm. With that said my Sioux is 2100rpm and it has
worked fine.
The more I build the more I realize the RV-10 could probably be built
with hand tools, in other words, yes you'll be fine with a 2K rpm drill.
I also have a 2X riveter, many will say you need a 3X, never saw a need
for anything more than my 2x did. Look at the Avery or planetools list
and use that as a basis for the ebay search.
Pascal
From: Chris Colohan
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
While I've got the experts on the line...
I'm currently trying to acquire used tools (aka, on the cheap) to start
building an RV-10. I've been looking at ebay for drills, and realize I
don't quite know what I need.
In particular, when I read articles on building, I've seen multiple
references (including the Sioux web site) which say you need >5000rpm in
a drill for working with aluminum. But such a drill doesn't seem to
exist, and the drills that come with RV-10 tool kits tend to be around
2000rpm.
If I just buy one of the (many) older Sioux drills on ebay, am I likely
to be happy? Or do these things tend to wear out or break in funny ways
when they get older?
Chris
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 8:02 AM, Pascal <rv10builder@verizon.net> wrote:
I looked at putting a keyless chuck on my Sioux, but in the end I
never really felt that it was a big enough deal to actually do it. I
think if one is frugal, like me, it certainly is worth just trying
everything as is and upgrading those things that one really needs (or
wants) no different than the kit itself, some items really "need" to be
replaced/upgraded and many don't, others are fine as it is even though
some have upgraded. My examples would focus around the landing gear;
axle, extension, wheel, etc.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Bill Mauledriver Watson" <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 7:20 AM
To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
<MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
>
> I have the red one and not sure the teasing capability is very good,
so
> the Chicago sounds great. Keyless chuck? Can't imagine being
without it.
>
> Kelly McMullen wrote:
<kellym@aviating.com>
>>
>> IMHO, your best deal on a drill is from Avery. The Chicago
Pneumatic
>> is compact, light, and has a very nice touch teasing trigger, for
>> $125, or $155 with reversing. Sure a keyless chuck is nice, but is
it
>> worth an extra $70? Maybe Avery would make a deal combining the
two.
>>
>> Luis Rodriguez wrote:
<luis@cristabelle.net>
>>>
>>> Score:
>>>
>>> Ischam 3
>>> Avery. 1
>>> Custom 2
>>>
>>> Thank you for the responses so far!!!
>>>
>>> I'll definetly add the hole punch, extra clecos, extra scotchbrite
>>> wheels, and a drdt2.
>>>
>>> I'll eBay the air drill and pneumatic sqeezer.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPod
>>>
>>> On Dec 30, 2009, at 5:56 PM, Luis Rodriguez <luis@cristabelle.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
<luis@cristabelle.net>
>>>>
>>>> Which tool kit is the most complete/best to order for the -10.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPod
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ===========
> Support Your Lists This Month --
> Get Some the Annual Contribution link Terrific Free
www.aeroelectric.com
> HomebuiltHELP Contribution Web bsp;
> RV10-List Email browse
> Photoshare, and much ==========
> bsp; via the ==========
>
>
>
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
nk">www.howtocrimp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
Message 41
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| Subject: | Most complete tool kit |
Chris: Jeff makes a very good point.............there is alot of work like
drilling out prepunched holes=2C deburring holes etc. that don't require t
he power or rpm of an air drill. I used a light 9v black and decker drill
and now using a similar DeWitt drill...........having a second battery mean
s you can be charging one while using the other.....and keep on working.
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
From: nicholscatoauto@aol.com
Chris=2C
I used a makita cordless drill so far in the build process(currently workin
g on fuselage). I purchased a CP reversible drill and I didn't like having
to wear ear plugs all the time (kind of loud) or lugging the air hose aroun
d with me. As far as the rest of the tools I wouldn't do without my tungste
n bucking bar. I just wish I would have bought it at the beginning.
Jeff Nichols
#40648
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Colohan <rv10@colohan.com>
Sent: Thu=2C Dec 31=2C 2009 11:55 am
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
While I've got the experts on the line...
I'm currently trying to acquire used tools (aka=2C on the cheap) to start b
uilding an RV-10. I've been looking at ebay for drills=2C and realize I do
n't quite know what I need.
In particular=2C when I read articles on building=2C I've seen multiple ref
erences (including the Sioux web site) which say you need >5000rpm in a dri
ll for working with aluminum. But such a drill doesn't seem to exist=2C an
d the drills that come with RV-10 tool kits tend to be around 2000rpm.
If I just buy one of the (many) older Sioux drills on ebay=2C am I likely t
o be happy? Or do these things tend to wear out or break in funny ways whe
n they get older?
Chris
On Thu=2C Dec 31=2C 2009 at 8:02 AM=2C Pascal <rv10builder@verizon.net> wro
te:
I looked at putting a keyless chuck on my Sioux=2C but in the end I never r
eally felt that it was a big enough deal to actually do it. I think if one
is frugal=2C like me=2C it certainly is worth just trying everything as is
and upgrading those things that one really needs (or wants) no different th
an the kit itself=2C some items really "need" to be replaced/upgraded and m
any don't=2C others are fine as it is even though some have upgraded. My ex
amples would focus around the landing gear=3B axle=2C extension=2C wheel=2C
etc.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Bill Mauledriver Watson" <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
Sent: Thursday=2C December 31=2C 2009 7:20 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
rr.com>
>
> I have the red one and not sure the teasing capability is very good=2C so
> the Chicago sounds great. Keyless chuck? Can't imagine being without it
.
>
> Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>
>> IMHO=2C your best deal on a drill is from Avery. The Chicago Pneumatic
>> is compact=2C light=2C and has a very nice touch teasing trigger=2C for
>> $125=2C or $155 with reversing. Sure a keyless chuck is nice=2C but is i
t
>> worth an extra $70? Maybe Avery would make a deal combining the two.
>>
>> Luis Rodriguez wrote:
>>>
>>> Score:
>>>
>>> Ischam 3
>>> Avery. 1
>>> Custom 2
>>>
>>> Thank you for the responses so far!!!
>>>
>>> I'll definetly add the hole punch=2C extra clecos=2C extra scotchbrite
>>> wheels=2C and a drdt2.
>>>
>>> I'll eBay the air drill and pneumatic sqeezer.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPod
>>>
>>> On Dec 30=2C 2009=2C at 5:56 PM=2C Luis Rodriguez <luis@cristabelle.net
>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Which tool kit is the most complete/best to order for the -10.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPod
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ===========
> Support Your Lists This Month --
> Get Some the Annual Contribution link Terrific Free www.aeroelectric.com
> HomebuiltHELP Contribution Web bsp=3B ======
====
> RV10-List Email browse
> Photoshare=2C and much ==========
> bsp=3B via the ==========
>
>
>
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
nk">www.howtocrimp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
m/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
ank>www.howtocrimp.com
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
Message 42
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| Subject: | Most complete tool kit |
If I get to choose a hand squeezer, I'm going with the Cleveland "Main Squeeze".
It's the cat's meow.
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: mauledriver@nc.rr.com [mailto:mauledriver@nc.rr.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 5:49 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
Yes, very nicely said.
Another tool with a lot of variables is a hand squeezer. Yes, you should have
a power squeezer. But you will also need a hand squeezer too. Having had the
chance to use 3 or 4 different models before buying, I had a definite preference.
Others had a different preference. But experience really guided our preferences.
If you can find any way to try different types out, it will pay off.
But what you don't know won't really hurt you either.
Bill
---- John Cumins <jcumins@jcis.net> wrote:
> John
>
>
>
> Nicely said.
>
>
>
> John G. Cumins
>
>
>
> 40864 Emp in deburr mode then dimpling then Primer Yes I won the primer
> war!!!!!
>
>
>
>
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox
> Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 11:23 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
>
>
>
> Chris, like the subject of Primer, tools bring out the personal side of the
> RV-10 list. Several will tell you that one brand is better over another.
> Most like the Beach Boys song "Be true to your school" have not played the
> field much. The key is the feel, balance and weight in Your Hands. Speed is
> indeed a factor in improving quality of production. You can always regulate
> down a faster product for slower cutting or deity forbid "Drill an errant
> rivet". The inverse is not possible. Trueness of the "chucked bit" is
> another. Some chucks tend to wear out more quickly than others. Many
> builders love the keyless chuck. Noise of the pneumatics and consistent
> speed under load are two metrics to measure your options against. Pilots
> tend to go deaf from flying without noise cancelling headsets. Builders do
> it from their pneumatic tools. Be sure and get protection that you enjoy
> wearing.
>
>
>
> I have two Sioux palm reversibles and love them. I found the Dotco with
> ergonomic grip to be even more comfortable. I cannot stand the miniature
> (hard to find) special size key necessary to change items in the Sioux
> chuck. I would love to have a keyless chuck in just one of mine but there
> are tradeoffs when trying to back out a stuck bit that is turning in the
> chuck. The reason I have two small drives (five in total) is the
> convenience of have PRE set up a 0.030 bit, another with the 0.040, another
> with a micro cage for countersinking and another for scotchbrite disks on an
> arbor. Many of the micro cages will have a bushing rather than a bearing
> and begin migrating at the end of the build as your QC level becomes more
> demanding. And yes, I use both reamers and Cogswell Deburr tools.
>
>
>
> Some of us follow the path of Tiger Woods in life, I have a fetish for
> tools. A quality tool in the hand of a craftsman, properly applied can be a
> thing of beauty. For shops to die for, visit the archive of Bob Newman's -
> TCW workshop. Pictures can be far more eloquent.
>
>
>
> No one has yet mentioned a 90 or 45 degree drill for those tight spots using
> 1/4" x 28 threaded bits. I even have a "East Indian" manufactured pancake
> drill for hard to reach areas with only 1" of headroom. 60% of my stuff has
> come from Ebay. About 10% gets re-sold so Caveat Emptor.
>
>
>
> Many are building quality products with the most basic of builder tools. A
> majority of builders learn about the tool options later in the build rather
> than in the beginning. Few of them have been willing to sell anything after
> completion of their kit. Others are fortunate enough to have access to the
> DRDT2 dimpler or share it around with friends. That will be the hardest
> tool to sneak past my wife in her random tours of the hangar. Visit Tim
> Olson's site on how to engage your partner in the build and its rewards.
>
>
>
> Enjoy the journey and consider engaging one or several EAA Tech Advisors
> (near you) to share with you the roads less traveled or infrequently repaved
> by builder mistakes. Visit http://www.eaa.org/video/homebuilders.html .
> Feel at ease contacting builders Offline - Anytime.
>
>
>
>
>
> John Cox
>
> Aurora, OR
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Colohan
> Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 9:55 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
>
>
>
> While I've got the experts on the line...
>
>
>
> I'm currently trying to acquire used tools (aka, on the cheap) to start
> building an RV-10. I've been looking at ebay for drills, and realize I
> don't quite know what I need.
>
>
>
> In particular, when I read articles on building, I've seen multiple
> references (including the Sioux web site) which say you need >5000rpm in a
> drill for working with aluminum. But such a drill doesn't seem to exist,
> and the drills that come with RV-10 tool kits tend to be around 2000rpm.
>
>
>
> If I just buy one of the (many) older Sioux drills on ebay, am I likely to
> be happy? Or do these things tend to wear out or break in funny ways when
> they get older?
>
>
>
> Chris
>
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 8:02 AM, Pascal <rv10builder@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> I looked at putting a keyless chuck on my Sioux, but in the end I never
> really felt that it was a big enough deal to actually do it. I think if one
> is frugal, like me, it certainly is worth just trying everything as is and
> upgrading those things that one really needs (or wants) no different than
> the kit itself, some items really "need" to be replaced/upgraded and many
> don't, others are fine as it is even though some have upgraded. My examples
> would focus around the landing gear; axle, extension, wheel, etc.
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Bill Mauledriver Watson" <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 7:20 AM
>
>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
>
> <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
> >
> > I have the red one and not sure the teasing capability is very good, so
> > the Chicago sounds great. Keyless chuck? Can't imagine being without it.
> >
> > Kelly McMullen wrote:
> >>
> >> IMHO, your best deal on a drill is from Avery. The Chicago Pneumatic
> >> is compact, light, and has a very nice touch teasing trigger, for
> >> $125, or $155 with reversing. Sure a keyless chuck is nice, but is it
> >> worth an extra $70? Maybe Avery would make a deal combining the two.
> >>
>
> >> Luis Rodriguez wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Score:
> >>>
> >>> Ischam 3
> >>> Avery. 1
> >>> Custom 2
> >>>
> >>> Thank you for the responses so far!!!
> >>>
> >>> I'll definetly add the hole punch, extra clecos, extra scotchbrite
> >>> wheels, and a drdt2.
> >>>
> >>> I'll eBay the air drill and pneumatic sqeezer.
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPod
> >>>
> >>> On Dec 30, 2009, at 5:56 PM, Luis Rodriguez <luis@cristabelle.net>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Which tool kit is the most complete/best to order for the -10.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from my iPod
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
> > ==========
>
>
> > Support Your Lists This Month --
>
> > Get Some the Annual Contribution link Terrific Free www.aeroelectric.com
> > HomebuiltHELP Contribution Web bsp; ==========
> > RV10-List Email browse
> > Photoshare, and much ==========
> > bsp; via the ==========
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>
> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
> nk">www.howtocrimp.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> www.aeroelectric.com
> www.buildersbooks.com
> www.homebuilthelp.com
> www.howtocrimp.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: Most complete tool kit |
I second that. An experience mechanic that has helped me from time to
time thought the Sioux was far superior to any drill he has used in his
30 years. He was amazed at the smoothness, "balance" and easy control of
the drill. Funny thing is he mentioned that he had the trigger syndrome
with some of the drills they have at his job, and none of the drills
they use are cheap/inexpensive. (aka no Harbor freight tools).
I believe Boeing uses DOTCO, or they did at one point, I say that
because when the store was still open to the public they had a few
"surplus", DOTCO, sioux, both great tools, Harbor Freight NOT! somewhere
in between there are some great smooth less expensive tools and there
are some lousy expensive tools. Stick with a name brand and look at VAF
for builders feedback on tools.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Kelly McMullen" <kellym@aviating.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 4:09 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
>
> I would disagree on the drill. I got the standard drill in Isham's
kit.
> After completing the empenage I developed trigger finger syndrome,
> partly because that drill has a stiff trigger that is very difficult
to
> get anything but max rpm. The Chicago Pneumatic I mentioned or a Sioux
> have far better triggers that take less effort and easy control from 5
> rpm to max rpm.
>
> John Cumins wrote:
>>
>> Louis
>>
>> The drill and pneumatic sqeezer are part of the ISM kit you want to
get both
>> from them and I love the feel of the drill fits my hand perfectly.
>> John G. Cumins
>> President
>>
>> JC'S Interactive Systems
>> 2499 B1 Martin Rd
>> Fairfield Ca 94533
>> 707-425-7100
>> 707-425-7576 Fax
>>
>> Your Total Technology Solution Provider
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Automotive Spark Plugs |
Wait for the 6 cylinder pMag..
Carl Froehlich
Previous dual Lightspeed owner on my 8A (450 total hours with many
problems). I now run dual pMags on the 8A (100 trouble free hours so far)
and will put them on my RV-10.
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 6:17 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Automotive Spark Plugs
Robin,
We have used IO540-C4B5. We are running a Lightspeed Plasma III on the
left side and the original mag on the right side. I have the automotive
plugs in the top of the cylinders and the aircraft mag plugs on the bottom.
We start on the electronic ignition. RPM drop on the mags only is much
higher than the electronics only mode.
Waiting with plans to upgrade the right mag to a P-Mag or E-Mag if they ever
get them done for the 540 series. But may also end up just installing a
second Lightspeed when the mag finally give up.
Working well for us.
Jim C (N312F - Doing the first condition inspection now in a COLD hanger!)
Do Not Archive
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------
As I have only had Dual Mags on now 9 different planes what do people use
with one electronic and one Mag? Automotive plugs on the electronic and
Aviation plugs on the Mag?
Robin
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Foreflight Mobile 3.0 for iPhone |
OK, I spent an hour last night on Foreflight and bought the annual package.
I love the route briefing and particularly the translated METARS. I can
read the script but always have to think too hard about the Zulu times. I
wonder if they will switch to the new PROG charts with the enhanced
graphics. I really like them a lot better than the standard stuff.
It is a better package than AOPA because it is specifically designed for the
iPhone. It's cool being able to download charts, airport directory, and
approachs/stars/sids etc and have them in your hand in the airplane. Not as
nice to use as a full size chart but cool for reference or in a pinch.
Thanks for the tip! Please post any other good iPhone aviation aps that you
come across.
Bill S
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 7:24 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Foreflight Mobile 3.0 for iPhone
I'll reply longer in another post maybe, but for now to answer one question,
I think on their site it says all charts total is 5gb. I downloaded most of
the is except Alaska and Hawaii. Mainly because we often decide on our
vacation destinations the night before, so I have to be prepared for
anything. 32gb will do you real well.
Tim
On Dec 30, 2009, at 6:34 PM, "Bill Schlatterer"
<billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net > wrote:
> --> <billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net
> >
>
> Tim thanks, good answer. So looks like you can actually download the
> charts, stars, etc and pull them up even offline and that is part of
> the basic 69/annual pricing. Are you downloading all charts or just
> the general area of your trip. Can you tell how much data storage is
> used in the iP for this app plus charts etc. Haven't found out how to
> do that yet but have the 32g version so I think it shouldn't be a
> problem.
>
> If Foreflight actually wrote the stuff that AOPA uses, they do good
> work.
> The one ap that is missing is the nice listing that Dan Checkoways
> does on his Weithermiester site where it just shows a one line Metars
> for every site within XX miles of your route. It's color coded so it
> is very easy to use/
>
> Pretty unbelievable how far we have come in the last year with the iP.
>
> Do you have any other favorite aps for the iP for flight matters?
>
> Thanks Bill S
> 7a finishing
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 8:52 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Foreflight Mobile 3.0 for iPhone
>
> Bill,
>
> I'm writing this from back home from the trip down to Florida. Used
> Foreflight Mobile (3.0 version) for just tons of the trip. The reason
> I could easily read the STAR, and yesterday had my approach plate up
> while in flight is that 3.0 will allow you to download all the
> approaches state-by-state, and also IFR enroute charts, and VFR
> sectionals, state by state. The charts and sectionals also work with
> the iphone GPS (and a bluetooth GPS if you hack it). So, I didn't
> need data service to use all those chart functions. The AOPA app you
> mention is good, but Foreflight already also includes all of that too
> (they made the AOPA app), so if you have Foreflight, you don't need
> the separate AOPA app.
>
> I did find that there were plenty of times I didn't have data
> coverage, but found many that I did along this trip too. It was very
> sporadic.
> It seems that when I was near 3G coverage areas, it happened more
> often.
> When I flew to KSLC earlier this year, it was funny but I had almost
> continuous coverage at 10,000' I think, from Wyoming to Utah. So it
> really depends on where you are. In Florida I would often get emails
> popping in during the flight...and just randomly along the trip. When
> I had service near Nashville, I used it to text back and forth with
> another RV-10 owner to have them call ahead to make sure I could get a
> car at KMYJ. I also a couple times tried to pull up fuel prices on
> Airnav just for kicks...and sometimes had luck. Come to think of it,
> South Dakota seemed to have reasonable coverage when I was over there
> too.
>
> I did shut the phone off into airplane mode when flying IMC in the
> clouds though...the phone is a very electrically noisy device and
> although I haven't seen any effects on the plane instruments, I didn't
> want to find them out at that time. I get tons of speaker interference
> on telephones and PC monitor speakers with the iphone.
>
> Voyager also actually came in pretty handy on this trip again.
> Between the BNA area and near MSP when I was going home, I tried to do
> a lot of that VFR for a while, navigating low around a snowstorm
> area....just changing our course as needed to try to make the best
> forward progress.
> This meant we had no defined fuel spot...just wanted to navigate
> around the weather.
> I was able to slide the map ahead and find a good fuel stop for
> something just over $3.60/gal, instead of paying the $4-5 that so many
> places try to impose, and ended up at Mexico MO (home of Zenith
> aircraft) getting a good fuel price. Probably saved me like $40-60
> just for that one fuel stop. I tried to do as much as I could on this
> trip with the iPhone though, which really for me proved it was a
> fantastic device to have with you on a trip.
> I had a moving-map GPS in the car, found my hotels by the iphone,
> found my stores and restaurants that way, and even my inlaws house and
> the nearby theatre for a movie.
> Without that device I'd have had to do a lot more planning or spend a
> lot more time getting around.
>
> For those thinking about the Foreflight for iphone, you may want to
> check their website quick. I think most of the special upgrade pricing
> and special intro pricing expires at the end of the year. Might save
> a few bucks. I don't know if I'll have a good write-up put together
> in time.
>
> For kicks, I've attached 3 screenshots from the trip. The first was
> the crappy weather I had to deal with a couple days ago while we came
> home...flying from Florida to Wisconsin.
> The turbulence got me..I landed at Nashville because having built the
> plane, I KNOW that the only thing holding the front of the horizontal
> stab on is those 2 L shaped angle brackets...
> and we were getting hammered bad enough that I decided I better just
> wait it out. The last shot is a not-zoomed-in-too-far photo of that
> arrival in Florida. You can zoom them up just like everything else
> and see them well.
>
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>
>
> Bill Schlatterer wrote:
>> --> <billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net>
>>
>> Tim, just wondering how that works? I just flew several legs into
>> Fort Worth and out and never could get the iPhone to pick up
>> consistently. Text messages went OK (not instantly) up to about 2000
>> but higher than that was intermittent. My old crack berry was better
>> than
> that. Internet access for
>> pulling up anything was not useable. My iP is on AT&T. Does
>> Foreflight
>> cache the plates or do you have to load them up before getting in the
>> air?
>>
>> I have been using the new AOPA Mobile ap and it is also very good!
>> It's also free with your AOPA subscription.
>>
>> Bill S
>> 7a almost flying
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 5:15 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Foreflight Mobile 3.0 for iPhone
>>
>>
>> You get WAY more than that....confirmation AND the full briefing. I
>> had an awesome couple of days with 3.0 so far....this should be a
>> great trip write-up. Flying the STAR into KLEE as I type this...with
>> the star on the iPhone!
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 23, 2009, at 5:30 PM, "lbgjb10" <lbgjb@gnt.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> If you file your flight plan with Foreflight 3.0, do you get any
>>> feedback that the flight plan went thru??
>>>
>>> --------
>>> Larry and Gayle N104LG
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=278735#278735
>>>
>
>
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Automotive Spark Plugs |
Sounds like a classic alternative setup.
My purchase policy on purchasing the 6 cylinder P-Mag = Actual Release
Date + 18 Months.
Thanks for the detail,
Robin
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 3:17 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Automotive Spark Plugs
Robin,
We have used IO540-C4B5. We are running a Lightspeed Plasma III on the
left side and the original mag on the right side. I have the automotive
plugs in the top of the cylinders and the aircraft mag plugs on the
bottom. We start on the electronic ignition. RPM drop on the mags only
is much higher than the electronics only mode.
Waiting with plans to upgrade the right mag to a P-Mag or E-Mag if they
ever get them done for the 540 series. But may also end up just
installing a second Lightspeed when the mag finally give up.
Working well for us.
Jim C (N312F - Doing the first condition inspection now in a COLD
hanger!)
Do Not Archive
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------
As I have only had Dual Mags on now 9 different planes what do people
use
with one electronic and one Mag? Automotive plugs on the electronic and
Aviation plugs on the Mag?
Robin
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
12/31/09 08:52:00
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: Automotive Spark Plugs |
Yep, I have talked to them on at least three different occasions.
They seem to be ignoring a significant market. I have yet to
actually see a release date.
Oh well.
JimC
Do not archive
------------------------
Sounds like a
classic alternative setup.
My purchase policy on purchasing the
6 cylinder P-Mag = Actual Release
Date + 18 Months.
Thanks for the detail,
Robin
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 3:17 PM
To:
rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Automotive Spark
Plugs
Robin,
We have used IO540-C4B5.
We are running a Lightspeed Plasma III on the
left side and the
original mag on the right side. I have the automotive
plugs in the
top of the cylinders and the aircraft mag plugs on the
bottom. We
start on the electronic ignition. RPM drop on the mags only
is much
higher than the electronics only mode.
Waiting with plans to
upgrade the right mag to a P-Mag or E-Mag if they
ever get them done
for the 540 series. But may also end up just
installing a second
Lightspeed when the mag finally give up.
Working well for
us.
Jim C (N312F - Doing the first condition inspection now in
a COLD
hanger!)
Do Not Archive
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------
--> RV10-List
message posted by: "Robin Marks"
<robin1@mrmoisture.com>
As I have only had Dual Mags on
now 9 different planes what do people
use
with one electronic
and one Mag? Automotive plugs on the electronic and
Aviation plugs on
the Mag?
Robin
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
12/31/09 08:52:00
Message 48
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|
| Subject: | Re: Automotive Spark Plugs |
The LightSpeed is working well for us. - - So Far . . . I am using
their timing pickup mounted at the front of the engine.
JIm C
Do Not Archive
--------------------------------------------
Wait for the 6
cylinder pMag..
Carl Froehlich
Previous
dual Lightspeed owner on my 8A (450 total hours with many
problems).
I now run dual pMags on the 8A (100 trouble free hours so far)
and
will put them on my RV-10.
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 6:17 PM
To:
rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Automotive Spark
Plugs
Robin,
We have used IO540-C4B5.
We are running a Lightspeed Plasma III on the
left side and the
original mag on the right side. I have the automotive
plugs in the
top of the cylinders and the aircraft mag plugs on the
bottom.
We start on the electronic ignition. RPM drop on the mags only is
much
higher than the electronics only mode.
Waiting with
plans to upgrade the right mag to a P-Mag or E-Mag if they
ever
get them done for the 540 series. But may also end up just installing
a
second Lightspeed when the mag finally give up.
Working
well for us.
Jim C (N312F - Doing the first condition
inspection now in a COLD hanger!)
Do Not Archive
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------
--> RV10-List
message posted by: "Robin Marks"
<robin1@mrmoisture.com>
As I have only had Dual Mags on
now 9 different planes what do people use
with one electronic and one
Mag? Automotive plugs on the electronic and
Aviation plugs on the
Mag?
Robin
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: Foreflight Mobile 3.0 for iPhone |
Here, I'll list some of the iphone apps for flying that I have
and a short comment about each...
Foreflight Mobile 3.0
This is the app that everyone should have. It's awesome in
too many ways to list. Discount pricing for the rest of tonight.
Try filing a VFR flight plan for a route on it once, after
downloading the free demo. You'll be amazed at the email you
get back.
WingX
A many-featured app. Not utterly horrible, but so much less
user friendly than Foreflight that I would only recommend it
if you don't have a handheld or backup in-flight GPS moving
map. This app would serve fair, not perfect, from an in-flight
GPS perspective, and includes terrain. I wish I could pay
just 50% of the price, but ONLY get the nice moving map.
That would be an app I'd like. Or better yet, if Foreflight
would put in that type of moving map GPS function, I'm
sure they'd do a top notch job.
Flight Control
It's just a game...but a fun one. :)
SkyCharts
Nice for a cheap, basically VFR only app, with the exception
that you can get approach plates but not nearly as handy
as the ones in Foreflight. And, you can get graphical weather
METAR colors on the map....which also isn't that huge of
a deal. But, as long as it's $10, you may as well download
it to play with.
TrackLog
Kind of cool. Similar to APRS and SPOT messenger, this can
track you as you fly. I don't know how it works at high
altitude when you're not in cell coverage though. But,
some people seem to have luck with it. It's cheap enough
to try out.
PilotFAR
Nice to have the regs on hand and searchable....no more
buying that stinkin' book every year.
Horizon
An attitude indicator. Play only, but it's cheap, and
something to show to your buds.
NavClock
If you want more out of a clock app, this one has some good
weather info. I rarely use it.
AeroWeather
A pretty nice weather app that I've used in the past to
just get a quick visual wind and weather check for local
airports. Foreflight can take it's place though...but
at least this one is cheap.
FltPlan
FlightPlan.com's app. The app itself isn't near as slick
as some of the others, but, it does have some neat things
like Bahamas airport info. I've only used it a couple times,
mainly because their website flight planner gets good
reviews. But, I haven't found anything groundbreaking
about it.... for me, Foreflight and Voyager are my tools
of choice. They do have some EAPIS tools I've read about
a little that might be good if you do a lot of international
flying, but I'm not sure how much of that is on the iphone app.
FlightAware LiveTracking
A cool little app for tracking your RV-10 buddies as they
fly IFR.
LiveATC
Online ATC broadcasts from many airports. Fun to listen
to when you're bored.
RoqyBT
A bluetooth stack you can put on an ipod touch (jailbroken)
that allows you to use a bluetooth GPS with GPS integrated
apps.
Other apps non-aviation that I find pretty handy:
Note: Starred apps require jailbreaking
*MyWi
*My3G
*Overboard
Around Me - This app is AWESOME for if you're traveling
and you want to find things that are...well, Around you.
Well worth checking out, and it's cheap.
RedLaser - Never buy something in a store and kick
yourself when you get home and find that the average
price is 20% less again.
AirMouse - Kind of cool for controlling your mouse on a PC
attached to a big screen TV. Geek toy.
Skype - Way cool if you're in the Bahamas and can't use
your cell phone without spending a million bucks...just
use the hotel's wi-fi and you can call home for cheap
or free.
iGo My Way GPS or Tom Tom GPS - You probably want one of
these for when you travel. That way you'll have a full
roadable GPS for your rental car. They're invaluable!
TextNow - An unlimited texting app. If your kid texts
a lot, save your cellphone bill and just make them use
this app.
SplashID - Here's a favorite of mine....carry all your
passwords and website passwords with you every where you
go...credit card numbers, bank account numbers, pilot
certificate numbers, DUATS code and passwords, everything.
It's all stored encrypted and you can get a desktop
app to sync it to or enter data easier. I use it all
the time and is one of my favorite apps.
So there you go....that and a couple of web sites should
give you much of what you'd ever want.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
Bill Schlatterer wrote:
>
> OK, I spent an hour last night on Foreflight and bought the annual package.
> I love the route briefing and particularly the translated METARS. I can
> read the script but always have to think too hard about the Zulu times. I
> wonder if they will switch to the new PROG charts with the enhanced
> graphics. I really like them a lot better than the standard stuff.
>
> It is a better package than AOPA because it is specifically designed for the
> iPhone. It's cool being able to download charts, airport directory, and
> approachs/stars/sids etc and have them in your hand in the airplane. Not as
> nice to use as a full size chart but cool for reference or in a pinch.
>
> Thanks for the tip! Please post any other good iPhone aviation aps that you
> come across.
>
> Bill S
>
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: Most complete tool kit |
So the higher rpms on the drill are not needed? The higher RPMs
should give a smoother hole. I would think using a lower rpm will
lead to stress cracks in the less smooth hole.
Anyhow...So if one can use an electric drill, than hey, is there a
electric riveter? Then using rattle cans for primer, ya don't even
need a compressor.....
On Dec 31, 2009, at 7:13 PM, Pascal wrote:
> you'll find that any tool will work, you probably saw a post today
> from someone using a battery powered drill, he might be getting
> 600rpm max far short of 2000rpm. With that said my Sioux is 2100rpm
> and it has worked fine.
> The more I build the more I realize the RV-10 could probably be
> built with hand tools, in other words, yes you'll be fine with a 2K
> rpm drill.
> I also have a 2X riveter, many will say you need a 3X, never saw a
> need for anything more than my 2x did. Look at the Avery or
> planetools list and use that as a basis for the ebay search.
> Pascal
> From: Chris Colohan
> Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 9:55 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
>
> While I've got the experts on the line...
>
> I'm currently trying to acquire used tools (aka, on the cheap) to
> start building an RV-10. I've been looking at ebay for drills, and
> realize I don't quite know what I need.
>
> In particular, when I read articles on building, I've seen multiple
> references (including the Sioux web site) which say you need
> >5000rpm in a drill for working with aluminum. But such a drill
> doesn't seem to exist, and the drills that come with RV-10 tool kits
> tend to be around 2000rpm.
>
> If I just buy one of the (many) older Sioux drills on ebay, am I
> likely to be happy? Or do these things tend to wear out or break in
> funny ways when they get older?
>
> Chris
>
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 8:02 AM, Pascal <rv10builder@verizon.net>
> wrote:
> I looked at putting a keyless chuck on my Sioux, but in the end I
> never really felt that it was a big enough deal to actually do it. I
> think if one is frugal, like me, it certainly is worth just trying
> everything as is and upgrading those things that one really needs
> (or wants) no different than the kit itself, some items really
> "need" to be replaced/upgraded and many don't, others are fine as it
> is even though some have upgraded. My examples would focus around
> the landing gear; axle, extension, wheel, etc.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Bill Mauledriver Watson" <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 7:20 AM
>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
>
> >
> >
> > I have the red one and not sure the teasing capability is very
> good, so
> > the Chicago sounds great. Keyless chuck? Can't imagine being
> without it.
> >
> > Kelly McMullen wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> IMHO, your best deal on a drill is from Avery. The Chicago
> Pneumatic
> >> is compact, light, and has a very nice touch teasing trigger, for
> >> $125, or $155 with reversing. Sure a keyless chuck is nice, but
> is it
> >> worth an extra $70? Maybe Avery would make a deal combining the
> two.
> >>
> >> Luis Rodriguez wrote:
> >
> >>>
> >>> Score:
> >>>
> >>> Ischam 3
> >>> Avery. 1
> >>> Custom 2
> >>>
> >>> Thank you for the responses so far!!!
> >>>
> >>> I'll definetly add the hole punch, extra clecos, extra scotchbrite
> >>> wheels, and a drdt2.
> >>>
> >>> I'll eBay the air drill and pneumatic sqeezer.
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPod
> >>>
> >>> On Dec 30, 2009, at 5:56 PM, Luis Rodriguez <luis@cristabelle.net>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >
> >>>>
> >>>> Which tool kit is the most complete/best to order for the -10.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from my iPod
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ==========
>
> > Support Your Lists This Month --
> > Get Some the Annual Contribution link Terrific Free www.aeroelectric.com
> > HomebuiltHELP Contribution Web bsp; ==========
> > RV10-List Email browse
> > Photoshare, and much ==========
> > bsp; via the ==========
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>
> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
> nk">www.howtocrimp.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
>
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.howtocrimp.com">www.howtocrimp.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref=
> "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: Back rivet tailcone |
Rivet the stiffeners to the top skin by back riveting before
installing on the bulkheads, then just slide into place. It would be
difficult to do any other way. It would be tough to backrivet the
radius between bottom and side skins.
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 1:32 PM, Russell Shavitz <rashvac@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Can someone tell me the exact order to back rivet tailcone and if the radius
> in the side and top skins can be back riveted
>
> Russell Shavitz
> Arlington Heights IL
> 847-417-6622
>
>
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: Most complete tool kit |
While anything is possible, the pneumatic tools are about power and
speed. Yesterday I had a friend to help, and we match drilled &
deburred a complete wing bottom skin in a couple hours with two air
drills and electric screwdriver running the debur bit. Would have
helped to have a pneumatic cleco tool, but I'm too cheap to buy one.
Dimpled all the ribs today in about an hour with pneumatic squeezer.
I paid less for my Husky compressor than my pneumatic squeezer.
Between drilling and riveting, it gets a lot of use. Not to mention
powering the die grinder, etc. The Husky 30 gal or Lowes equivalent
oil lubed belt driven compressors are under $400 and MUCH quieter than
any of the oiless variety.
As for rpm versus smooth holes, with a drill that may be true, with a
chucking reamer makes no difference. In both cases you still are going
to debur, which is what prevents the stress cracks. If drilling, once
started, I go to max rpm..2800 on my drill. For reamer I go easy, rpm
are not needed.
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 7:18 PM, Luis <luis@cristabelle.net> wrote:
> So the higher rpms on the drill are not needed? The higher RPMs should give
> a smoother hole. I would think using a lower rpm will lead to stress cracks
> in the less smooth hole.
>
> Anyhow...So if one can use an electric drill, than hey, is there a electric
> riveter? Then using rattle cans for primer, ya don't even need a
> compressor.....
Message 53
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Don't forget this one.
http://www.ezburr.com/products/ezburr_customs.html
Message 54
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|
| Subject: | Re: Foreflight Mobile 3.0 for iPhone |
You guys are driving me crazy, and green w/ envy! I live in an area
that's not got any at&t coverage, I want an iphone (Foreflight really)
so bad it hurts! hopegully Google and Android will come to the rescue soon.
Deems
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Here, I'll list some of the iphone apps for flying that I have
> and a short comment about each...
>
> Foreflight Mobile 3.0
> This is the app that everyone should have. It's awesome in
> too many ways to list. Discount pricing for the rest of tonight.
> Try filing a VFR flight plan for a route on it once, after
> downloading the free demo. You'll be amazed at the email you
> get back.
>
>
> WingX
> A many-featured app. Not utterly horrible, but so much less
> user friendly than Foreflight that I would only recommend it
> if you don't have a handheld or backup in-flight GPS moving
> map. This app would serve fair, not perfect, from an in-flight
> GPS perspective, and includes terrain. I wish I could pay
> just 50% of the price, but ONLY get the nice moving map.
> That would be an app I'd like. Or better yet, if Foreflight
> would put in that type of moving map GPS function, I'm
> sure they'd do a top notch job.
>
> Flight Control
> It's just a game...but a fun one. :)
>
>
> SkyCharts
> Nice for a cheap, basically VFR only app, with the exception
> that you can get approach plates but not nearly as handy
> as the ones in Foreflight. And, you can get graphical weather
> METAR colors on the map....which also isn't that huge of
> a deal. But, as long as it's $10, you may as well download
> it to play with.
>
>
> TrackLog
> Kind of cool. Similar to APRS and SPOT messenger, this can
> track you as you fly. I don't know how it works at high
> altitude when you're not in cell coverage though. But,
> some people seem to have luck with it. It's cheap enough
> to try out.
>
>
> PilotFAR
> Nice to have the regs on hand and searchable....no more
> buying that stinkin' book every year.
>
>
> Horizon
> An attitude indicator. Play only, but it's cheap, and
> something to show to your buds.
>
>
> NavClock
> If you want more out of a clock app, this one has some good
> weather info. I rarely use it.
>
>
> AeroWeather
> A pretty nice weather app that I've used in the past to
> just get a quick visual wind and weather check for local
> airports. Foreflight can take it's place though...but
> at least this one is cheap.
>
>
> FltPlan
> FlightPlan.com's app. The app itself isn't near as slick
> as some of the others, but, it does have some neat things
> like Bahamas airport info. I've only used it a couple times,
> mainly because their website flight planner gets good
> reviews. But, I haven't found anything groundbreaking
> about it.... for me, Foreflight and Voyager are my tools
> of choice. They do have some EAPIS tools I've read about
> a little that might be good if you do a lot of international
> flying, but I'm not sure how much of that is on the iphone app.
>
>
> FlightAware LiveTracking
> A cool little app for tracking your RV-10 buddies as they
> fly IFR.
>
>
> LiveATC
> Online ATC broadcasts from many airports. Fun to listen
> to when you're bored.
>
>
> RoqyBT
> A bluetooth stack you can put on an ipod touch (jailbroken)
> that allows you to use a bluetooth GPS with GPS integrated
> apps.
>
>
> Other apps non-aviation that I find pretty handy:
> Note: Starred apps require jailbreaking
>
> *MyWi
> *My3G
> *Overboard
>
> Around Me - This app is AWESOME for if you're traveling
> and you want to find things that are...well, Around you.
> Well worth checking out, and it's cheap.
>
> RedLaser - Never buy something in a store and kick
> yourself when you get home and find that the average
> price is 20% less again.
>
> AirMouse - Kind of cool for controlling your mouse on a PC
> attached to a big screen TV. Geek toy.
>
> Skype - Way cool if you're in the Bahamas and can't use
> your cell phone without spending a million bucks...just
> use the hotel's wi-fi and you can call home for cheap
> or free.
>
> iGo My Way GPS or Tom Tom GPS - You probably want one of
> these for when you travel. That way you'll have a full
> roadable GPS for your rental car. They're invaluable!
>
> TextNow - An unlimited texting app. If your kid texts
> a lot, save your cellphone bill and just make them use
> this app.
>
> SplashID - Here's a favorite of mine....carry all your
> passwords and website passwords with you every where you
> go...credit card numbers, bank account numbers, pilot
> certificate numbers, DUATS code and passwords, everything.
> It's all stored encrypted and you can get a desktop
> app to sync it to or enter data easier. I use it all
> the time and is one of my favorite apps.
>
>
> So there you go....that and a couple of web sites should
> give you much of what you'd ever want.
>
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
> do not archive
>
>
> Bill Schlatterer wrote:
>> <billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net>
>>
>> OK, I spent an hour last night on Foreflight and bought the annual
>> package.
>> I love the route briefing and particularly the translated METARS. I can
>> read the script but always have to think too hard about the Zulu
>> times. I
>> wonder if they will switch to the new PROG charts with the enhanced
>> graphics. I really like them a lot better than the standard stuff.
>>
>> It is a better package than AOPA because it is specifically designed
>> for the
>> iPhone. It's cool being able to download charts, airport directory, and
>> approachs/stars/sids etc and have them in your hand in the airplane.
>> Not as
>> nice to use as a full size chart but cool for reference or in a pinch.
>>
>> Thanks for the tip! Please post any other good iPhone aviation aps
>> that you
>> come across.
>>
>> Bill S
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Most complete tool kit |
Bill's comment reminded me... sometimes slower is better. If you break the speed
habit, you will discover that hand files will ultimately do the job, and never
make a mistake.
John
--------
#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit progressing. Engine on floor &
Panel delivery soon.
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279552#279552
Message 56
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| Subject: | Re: Foreflight Mobile 3.0 for iPhone |
PS: I did see that the foreflight guys wrote the weather
app for the droid, and I'd assume that over time if they
see a market growing, they'll probably add much of the
foreflight mobile feature set.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
Deems Davis wrote:
>
> You guys are driving me crazy, and green w/ envy! I live in an area
> that's not got any at&t coverage, I want an iphone (Foreflight really)
> so bad it hurts! hopegully Google and Android will come to the rescue soon.
>
> Deems
>
> Tim Olson wrote:
>>
>> Here, I'll list some of the iphone apps for flying that I have
>> and a short comment about each...
>>
>> Foreflight Mobile 3.0
>> This is the app that everyone should have. It's awesome in
>> too many ways to list. Discount pricing for the rest of tonight.
>> Try filing a VFR flight plan for a route on it once, after
>> downloading the free demo. You'll be amazed at the email you
>> get back.
>>
>>
>> WingX
>> A many-featured app. Not utterly horrible, but so much less
>> user friendly than Foreflight that I would only recommend it
>> if you don't have a handheld or backup in-flight GPS moving
>> map. This app would serve fair, not perfect, from an in-flight
>> GPS perspective, and includes terrain. I wish I could pay
>> just 50% of the price, but ONLY get the nice moving map.
>> That would be an app I'd like. Or better yet, if Foreflight
>> would put in that type of moving map GPS function, I'm
>> sure they'd do a top notch job.
>>
>> Flight Control
>> It's just a game...but a fun one. :)
>>
>>
>> SkyCharts
>> Nice for a cheap, basically VFR only app, with the exception
>> that you can get approach plates but not nearly as handy
>> as the ones in Foreflight. And, you can get graphical weather
>> METAR colors on the map....which also isn't that huge of
>> a deal. But, as long as it's $10, you may as well download
>> it to play with.
>>
>>
>> TrackLog
>> Kind of cool. Similar to APRS and SPOT messenger, this can
>> track you as you fly. I don't know how it works at high
>> altitude when you're not in cell coverage though. But,
>> some people seem to have luck with it. It's cheap enough
>> to try out.
>>
>>
>> PilotFAR
>> Nice to have the regs on hand and searchable....no more
>> buying that stinkin' book every year.
>>
>>
>> Horizon
>> An attitude indicator. Play only, but it's cheap, and
>> something to show to your buds.
>>
>>
>> NavClock
>> If you want more out of a clock app, this one has some good
>> weather info. I rarely use it.
>>
>>
>> AeroWeather
>> A pretty nice weather app that I've used in the past to
>> just get a quick visual wind and weather check for local
>> airports. Foreflight can take it's place though...but
>> at least this one is cheap.
>>
>>
>> FltPlan
>> FlightPlan.com's app. The app itself isn't near as slick
>> as some of the others, but, it does have some neat things
>> like Bahamas airport info. I've only used it a couple times,
>> mainly because their website flight planner gets good
>> reviews. But, I haven't found anything groundbreaking
>> about it.... for me, Foreflight and Voyager are my tools
>> of choice. They do have some EAPIS tools I've read about
>> a little that might be good if you do a lot of international
>> flying, but I'm not sure how much of that is on the iphone app.
>>
>>
>> FlightAware LiveTracking
>> A cool little app for tracking your RV-10 buddies as they
>> fly IFR.
>>
>>
>> LiveATC
>> Online ATC broadcasts from many airports. Fun to listen
>> to when you're bored.
>>
>>
>> RoqyBT
>> A bluetooth stack you can put on an ipod touch (jailbroken)
>> that allows you to use a bluetooth GPS with GPS integrated
>> apps.
>>
>>
>>
>> Other apps non-aviation that I find pretty handy:
>> Note: Starred apps require jailbreaking
>>
>> *MyWi
>> *My3G
>> *Overboard
>>
>> Around Me - This app is AWESOME for if you're traveling
>> and you want to find things that are...well, Around you.
>> Well worth checking out, and it's cheap.
>>
>> RedLaser - Never buy something in a store and kick
>> yourself when you get home and find that the average
>> price is 20% less again.
>>
>> AirMouse - Kind of cool for controlling your mouse on a PC
>> attached to a big screen TV. Geek toy.
>>
>> Skype - Way cool if you're in the Bahamas and can't use
>> your cell phone without spending a million bucks...just
>> use the hotel's wi-fi and you can call home for cheap
>> or free.
>>
>> iGo My Way GPS or Tom Tom GPS - You probably want one of
>> these for when you travel. That way you'll have a full
>> roadable GPS for your rental car. They're invaluable!
>>
>> TextNow - An unlimited texting app. If your kid texts
>> a lot, save your cellphone bill and just make them use
>> this app.
>>
>> SplashID - Here's a favorite of mine....carry all your
>> passwords and website passwords with you every where you
>> go...credit card numbers, bank account numbers, pilot
>> certificate numbers, DUATS code and passwords, everything.
>> It's all stored encrypted and you can get a desktop
>> app to sync it to or enter data easier. I use it all
>> the time and is one of my favorite apps.
>>
>>
>> So there you go....that and a couple of web sites should
>> give you much of what you'd ever want.
>>
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> Bill Schlatterer wrote:
>>> <billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net>
>>>
>>> OK, I spent an hour last night on Foreflight and bought the annual
>>> package.
>>> I love the route briefing and particularly the translated METARS. I can
>>> read the script but always have to think too hard about the Zulu
>>> times. I
>>> wonder if they will switch to the new PROG charts with the enhanced
>>> graphics. I really like them a lot better than the standard stuff.
>>>
>>> It is a better package than AOPA because it is specifically designed
>>> for the
>>> iPhone. It's cool being able to download charts, airport directory, and
>>> approachs/stars/sids etc and have them in your hand in the airplane.
>>> Not as
>>> nice to use as a full size chart but cool for reference or in a pinch.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the tip! Please post any other good iPhone aviation aps
>>> that you
>>> come across.
>>>
>>> Bill S
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Foreflight Mobile 3.0 for iPhone |
You might be a good candidate for an ipod touch then.
The very big upside is you can buy them once and not
pay all sorts of monthly cell fees. If you really
wanted to make it sweet, just get it jailbroken and
you could use it with a bluetooth GPS. Even without
it, you still have the approach charts and all that good
stuff. I got them for the kids and wife this year
and everyone uses them all the time now, email, and
games and movies and more...perfect sized traveling
companion. And, you just use it with Wi-Fi.
Now, if you REALLY want to get creative, here's what I
did for a year almost before I got an iphone....
For $30/mo I got tethered data service for my Alltel
(now Verizon) phone. Just a normal cellphone, that has
EVDO on it, which is plenty fast in many locations...up
to 2Mb/s service...and we have great coverage around
here. I just got a USB cable for it, and tethered
it to this:
http://www.cradlepoint.com/products/phs300-personal-wifi-hotspot
The Cradlepoint PHS300 then used my cellphone to dial up
Verizon EVDO service, and create a wi-fi hotspot that
would work for me wherever I was. In the car I just
plugged it in to the lighter socket and we still
could get full wi-fi access for all of our laptops
and our ipods. I used it at OSH this year too, to
provide WiFi for our group when the campground WiFi wasn't
working. So there are lots of options....but, none
quite as nice as just having an iphone with 3G coverage.
I don't live where there is 3G, but on this trip I just
got back from, I had 3G all over, and used my iphone
tethered to my laptop as my internet access. By
using MyWi, I could share it and turn my iphone
into a hotspot for the ipod touch folks.
So, there are many ways to skin the data cat. Andrea
is just using an iPod touch right now, but with that
bluetooth GPS, she's not missing out on much. Besides,
many FBO's offer Wi-Fi, so you can get much of what
you need without the expense of a cell plan.
Tim
Deems Davis wrote:
>
> You guys are driving me crazy, and green w/ envy! I live in an area
> that's not got any at&t coverage, I want an iphone (Foreflight really)
> so bad it hurts! hopegully Google and Android will come to the rescue soon.
>
> Deems
>
> Tim Olson wrote:
>>
>> Here, I'll list some of the iphone apps for flying that I have
>> and a short comment about each...
>>
>> Foreflight Mobile 3.0
>> This is the app that everyone should have. It's awesome in
>> too many ways to list. Discount pricing for the rest of tonight.
>> Try filing a VFR flight plan for a route on it once, after
>> downloading the free demo. You'll be amazed at the email you
>> get back.
>>
>>
>> WingX
>> A many-featured app. Not utterly horrible, but so much less
>> user friendly than Foreflight that I would only recommend it
>> if you don't have a handheld or backup in-flight GPS moving
>> map. This app would serve fair, not perfect, from an in-flight
>> GPS perspective, and includes terrain. I wish I could pay
>> just 50% of the price, but ONLY get the nice moving map.
>> That would be an app I'd like. Or better yet, if Foreflight
>> would put in that type of moving map GPS function, I'm
>> sure they'd do a top notch job.
>>
>> Flight Control
>> It's just a game...but a fun one. :)
>>
>>
>> SkyCharts
>> Nice for a cheap, basically VFR only app, with the exception
>> that you can get approach plates but not nearly as handy
>> as the ones in Foreflight. And, you can get graphical weather
>> METAR colors on the map....which also isn't that huge of
>> a deal. But, as long as it's $10, you may as well download
>> it to play with.
>>
>>
>> TrackLog
>> Kind of cool. Similar to APRS and SPOT messenger, this can
>> track you as you fly. I don't know how it works at high
>> altitude when you're not in cell coverage though. But,
>> some people seem to have luck with it. It's cheap enough
>> to try out.
>>
>>
>> PilotFAR
>> Nice to have the regs on hand and searchable....no more
>> buying that stinkin' book every year.
>>
>>
>> Horizon
>> An attitude indicator. Play only, but it's cheap, and
>> something to show to your buds.
>>
>>
>> NavClock
>> If you want more out of a clock app, this one has some good
>> weather info. I rarely use it.
>>
>>
>> AeroWeather
>> A pretty nice weather app that I've used in the past to
>> just get a quick visual wind and weather check for local
>> airports. Foreflight can take it's place though...but
>> at least this one is cheap.
>>
>>
>> FltPlan
>> FlightPlan.com's app. The app itself isn't near as slick
>> as some of the others, but, it does have some neat things
>> like Bahamas airport info. I've only used it a couple times,
>> mainly because their website flight planner gets good
>> reviews. But, I haven't found anything groundbreaking
>> about it.... for me, Foreflight and Voyager are my tools
>> of choice. They do have some EAPIS tools I've read about
>> a little that might be good if you do a lot of international
>> flying, but I'm not sure how much of that is on the iphone app.
>>
>>
>> FlightAware LiveTracking
>> A cool little app for tracking your RV-10 buddies as they
>> fly IFR.
>>
>>
>> LiveATC
>> Online ATC broadcasts from many airports. Fun to listen
>> to when you're bored.
>>
>>
>> RoqyBT
>> A bluetooth stack you can put on an ipod touch (jailbroken)
>> that allows you to use a bluetooth GPS with GPS integrated
>> apps.
>>
>>
>>
>> Other apps non-aviation that I find pretty handy:
>> Note: Starred apps require jailbreaking
>>
>> *MyWi
>> *My3G
>> *Overboard
>>
>> Around Me - This app is AWESOME for if you're traveling
>> and you want to find things that are...well, Around you.
>> Well worth checking out, and it's cheap.
>>
>> RedLaser - Never buy something in a store and kick
>> yourself when you get home and find that the average
>> price is 20% less again.
>>
>> AirMouse - Kind of cool for controlling your mouse on a PC
>> attached to a big screen TV. Geek toy.
>>
>> Skype - Way cool if you're in the Bahamas and can't use
>> your cell phone without spending a million bucks...just
>> use the hotel's wi-fi and you can call home for cheap
>> or free.
>>
>> iGo My Way GPS or Tom Tom GPS - You probably want one of
>> these for when you travel. That way you'll have a full
>> roadable GPS for your rental car. They're invaluable!
>>
>> TextNow - An unlimited texting app. If your kid texts
>> a lot, save your cellphone bill and just make them use
>> this app.
>>
>> SplashID - Here's a favorite of mine....carry all your
>> passwords and website passwords with you every where you
>> go...credit card numbers, bank account numbers, pilot
>> certificate numbers, DUATS code and passwords, everything.
>> It's all stored encrypted and you can get a desktop
>> app to sync it to or enter data easier. I use it all
>> the time and is one of my favorite apps.
>>
>>
>> So there you go....that and a couple of web sites should
>> give you much of what you'd ever want.
>>
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> Bill Schlatterer wrote:
>>> <billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net>
>>>
>>> OK, I spent an hour last night on Foreflight and bought the annual
>>> package.
>>> I love the route briefing and particularly the translated METARS. I can
>>> read the script but always have to think too hard about the Zulu
>>> times. I
>>> wonder if they will switch to the new PROG charts with the enhanced
>>> graphics. I really like them a lot better than the standard stuff.
>>>
>>> It is a better package than AOPA because it is specifically designed
>>> for the
>>> iPhone. It's cool being able to download charts, airport directory, and
>>> approachs/stars/sids etc and have them in your hand in the airplane.
>>> Not as
>>> nice to use as a full size chart but cool for reference or in a pinch.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the tip! Please post any other good iPhone aviation aps
>>> that you
>>> come across.
>>>
>>> Bill S
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 58
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|
| Subject: | Re: Most complete tool kit |
High speed is good for aluminum. Low speed for metal and even slower
for stainless.
----- Original Message -----
From: Luis
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
So the higher rpms on the drill are not needed? The higher RPMs
should give a smoother hole. I would think using a lower rpm will lead
to stress cracks in the less smooth hole.
Anyhow...So if one can use an electric drill, than hey, is there a
electric riveter? Then using rattle cans for primer, ya don't even need
a compressor.....
On Dec 31, 2009, at 7:13 PM, Pascal wrote:
you'll find that any tool will work, you probably saw a post today
from someone using a battery powered drill, he might be getting 600rpm
max far short of 2000rpm. With that said my Sioux is 2100rpm and it has
worked fine.
The more I build the more I realize the RV-10 could probably be
built with hand tools, in other words, yes you'll be fine with a 2K rpm
drill.
I also have a 2X riveter, many will say you need a 3X, never saw a
need for anything more than my 2x did. Look at the Avery or planetools
list and use that as a basis for the ebay search.
Pascal
From: Chris Colohan
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 9:55 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
While I've got the experts on the line...
I'm currently trying to acquire used tools (aka, on the cheap) to
start building an RV-10. I've been looking at ebay for drills, and
realize I don't quite know what I need.
In particular, when I read articles on building, I've seen multiple
references (including the Sioux web site) which say you need >5000rpm in
a drill for working with aluminum. But such a drill doesn't seem to
exist, and the drills that come with RV-10 tool kits tend to be around
2000rpm.
If I just buy one of the (many) older Sioux drills on ebay, am I
likely to be happy? Or do these things tend to wear out or break in
funny ways when they get older?
Chris
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 8:02 AM, Pascal <rv10builder@verizon.net>
wrote:
I looked at putting a keyless chuck on my Sioux, but in the end I
never really felt that it was a big enough deal to actually do it. I
think if one is frugal, like me, it certainly is worth just trying
everything as is and upgrading those things that one really needs (or
wants) no different than the kit itself, some items really "need" to be
replaced/upgraded and many don't, others are fine as it is even though
some have upgraded. My examples would focus around the landing gear;
axle, extension, wheel, etc.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Bill Mauledriver Watson" <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 7:20 AM
To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
<MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
>
> I have the red one and not sure the teasing capability is very
good, so
> the Chicago sounds great. Keyless chuck? Can't imagine being
without it.
>
> Kelly McMullen wrote:
<kellym@aviating.com>
>>
>> IMHO, your best deal on a drill is from Avery. The Chicago
Pneumatic
>> is compact, light, and has a very nice touch teasing trigger,
for
>> $125, or $155 with reversing. Sure a keyless chuck is nice, but
is it
>> worth an extra $70? Maybe Avery would make a deal combining the
two.
>>
>> Luis Rodriguez wrote:
<luis@cristabelle.net>
>>>
>>> Score:
>>>
>>> Ischam 3
>>> Avery. 1
>>> Custom 2
>>>
>>> Thank you for the responses so far!!!
>>>
>>> I'll definetly add the hole punch, extra clecos, extra
scotchbrite
>>> wheels, and a drdt2.
>>>
>>> I'll eBay the air drill and pneumatic sqeezer.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPod
>>>
>>> On Dec 30, 2009, at 5:56 PM, Luis Rodriguez
<luis@cristabelle.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
<luis@cristabelle.net>
>>>>
>>>> Which tool kit is the most complete/best to order for the
-10.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPod
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ===========
> Support Your Lists This Month --
> Get Some the Annual Contribution link Terrific Free
www.aeroelectric.com
> HomebuiltHELP Contribution Web bsp;
> RV10-List Email browse
> Photoshare, and much ==========
> bsp; via the ==========
>
>
>
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Message 59
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| Subject: | Re: Automotive Spark Plugs |
I check resistance every annual. It is best indicator of whether a plug
is still good. Also a lot cheaper than those big Champion blaster/tester
rigs.
I'd use electronic with auto plugs on a non-turbo aircraft engine...for
50% of plugs, and mags with aircraft plugs for the other half. Throw the
auto plugs away every annual, unless evidence pointed towards their
being good for more life.
John Cox wrote:
>
> For those who frequent OSH seminars, Champion is often conducting Educational
Seminars that can be both informative and entertaining. Then you can take what
they say with a grain of salt. The Aviation plug is designed and constructed
for an entirely more reliable purpose than automotive. If there were only as
many aviation plugs in use as Asian manufactured automotive we might see the
competitive forces of price make that subject a Non Issue. There is a big increase
in consumable cost. As a youth, when I was drag racing, I had three sets
of entirely different plugs for atmospheric changes on the track. We called
that a Pit Stop.
>
> Mikes post was about cost/benefit.
>
> TBO: The original Rotax TBOs were down around 1,000 hours now they are improving
to match Lyco/Continental. Turbo powered engines create additional needs
on the plug design and the TBO reflects the Trade Off of additional power output
yet I have never seen a plug properly rotated, cleaned, gapped and not dropped
that went 2,000 TBO... maybe 1000 hours.
>
> Rick, when you get back from the airport can you tell us which plug to buy? The
Champion Go/No Go gage included a measure of when the anode of the plug has
sacrificed enough metal to no longer have enough mass to continue reliably in
service (between Annuals - I mean Conditionals). Plugs should be matched for
reliability and performance for the environment they operate and the source of
power they are provided. Last week there was discussion of blast tubes to the
Mag without discussion on when pressurized mags provide additional value -
that is another subject. The tubes discussed were for cooling the Mag case and
reducing the failure rate of the condenser inside.
>
> Till you have seen an auto plug blow out, an anode burn off, an improper heat
range plug or the damage from a decaying magneto, or the failure of an electronic
ignition system you just have not experienced all the fun that is out there
for us all.
>
> The decision of cost/benefit is not in VANS hands, it is in the many choices
we make as the Manufacturer and the QC that we put on our product before the name
goes on. I have respect for both the workmanship of Rick's and Don's aircraft.
To me it's not about the $40,000. A close friend once said "When the engine
stops in flight, a fire breaks out or you fly without gas.... The aircraft
is instantly the property of the insurance company and your estate." Bob Hoover
said " It is the job of every good pilot to fly the aircraft to the landing
site, walk away with all the passengers that were onboard and assess your
estate value over a stiff drink". Sully was this year's hero for following to
a T that exact mantra. I have lost a few friends over the years who tried to
do the impossible or cut a corner or two while traveling life's highway. Let's
have another year of no lost RV-10s or their pilots.
>
> Here is a question for New Years Eve - "How many of you check the resistance
of your plugs at each annual?"
>
> John Cox
Message 60
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| Subject: | Re: Most complete tool kit |
This is an area where a lot of rookies make a big mistake.....- RPM is im
portant.... but even more important is the right pressure.- With stainles
s - sure, lower RPM, but keep a lot of pressure on it or your drill bit is
history.... similiar-for steel.... make sure the bit is biting.
It's usually more pressure than you think there should be.... trust me.
Don McDonald
--- On Thu, 12/31/09, Seano <sean@braunandco.com> wrote:
From: Seano <sean@braunandco.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
High speed is good for aluminum.- Low speed for metal and even slower for
stainless.
----- Original Message -----
From: Luis
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
So the higher rpms on the drill are not needed? -The higher RPMs should g
ive a smoother hole. -I would think using a lower rpm will lead to stress
cracks in the less smooth hole.
Anyhow...So if one can use an electric drill, than hey, is there a electric
riveter? -Then using rattle cans for primer, ya don't even need a compre
ssor.....
On Dec 31, 2009, at 7:13 PM, Pascal wrote:
you'll find that any tool will work, you probably saw a post today from som
eone using a battery powered drill, he might be getting 600rpm max far shor
t of 2000rpm. With that said my Sioux is 2100rpm and it has worked fine.
The more I build the more I realize the RV-10 could probably be built with
hand tools, in other words, yes you'll be fine with a 2K rpm drill.
I also have a 2X riveter, many will say you need a 3X, never saw a need for
anything more than my 2x did. Look at the Avery or planetools list and use
that as a basis for the ebay search.
Pascal
From: Chris Colohan
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
While I've got the experts on the line...
I'm currently trying to acquire used tools (aka, on the cheap) to start bui
lding an RV-10. -I've been looking at ebay for drills, and realize I don'
t quite know what I need.
In particular, when I read articles on building, I've seen multiple referen
ces (including the Sioux web site) which say you need >5000rpm in a drill f
or working with aluminum. -But such a drill doesn't seem to exist, and th
e drills that come with RV-10 tool kits tend to be around 2000rpm.
If I just buy one of the (many) older Sioux drills on ebay, am I likely to
be happy? -Or do these things tend to wear out or break in funny ways whe
n they get older?
Chris
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 8:02 AM, Pascal <rv10builder@verizon.net> wrote:
I looked at putting a keyless chuck on my Sioux, but in the end I never rea
lly felt that it was a big enough deal to actually do it. I think if one is
frugal, like me, it certainly is worth just trying everything as is and up
grading those things that one really needs (or wants) no different than the
kit itself, some items really "need" to be replaced/upgraded and many don'
t, others are fine as it is even though some have upgraded.-My examples w
ould focus around the landing gear; axle, extension, wheel, etc.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Bill Mauledriver Watson" <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 7:20 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
rr.com>
>
> I have the red one and not sure the teasing capability is very good, so
> the Chicago sounds great.- Keyless chuck?- Can't imagine being withou
t it.
>
> Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>
>> IMHO, your best deal on a drill is from Avery. The Chicago Pneumatic
>> is compact, light, and- has a very nice touch teasing trigger, for
>> $125, or $155 with reversing. Sure a keyless chuck is nice, but is it
>> worth an extra $70? Maybe Avery would make a deal combining the two.
>>
>> Luis Rodriguez wrote:
>>>
>>> Score:
>>>
>>> Ischam 3
>>> Avery.- 1
>>> Custom 2
>>>
>>> Thank you for the responses so far!!!
>>>
>>> I'll definetly add the hole punch, extra clecos, extra scotchbrite
>>> wheels, and a drdt2.
>>>
>>> I'll eBay the air drill and pneumatic sqeezer.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPod
>>>
>>> On Dec 30, 2009, at 5:56 PM, Luis Rodriguez <luis@cristabelle.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Which tool kit is the most complete/best to order for the -10.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPod
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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