Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:57 AM - Re: RV-10 with James Aircraft Holy Cowl (jkreidler)
2. 05:01 AM - Re: Getting nose wheel fairing on and off (David Maib)
3. 05:02 AM - Re: headliner finishing (tsts4)
4. 05:03 AM - Re: RV-10 with James Aircraft Holy Cowl (David Maib)
5. 05:50 AM - Re: OOPS!! What have I done??? (Bill Mauledriver Watson)
6. 06:03 AM - Re: Getting nose wheel fairing on and off (Bill Mauledriver Watson)
7. 06:24 AM - Re: Can I use this? (JHearnsberger)
8. 06:33 AM - Re: Can I use this? (tsts4)
9. 06:42 AM - Re: headliner finishing (Geoff Combs)
10. 06:54 AM - Re: Can I use this? (JHearnsberger)
11. 07:31 AM - Re: Re: Can I use this? (Jack Phillips)
12. 07:35 AM - Re: Can I use this? (johngoodman)
13. 07:40 AM - Re: headliner finishing (johngoodman)
14. 07:49 AM - Re: Can I use this? (JHearnsberger)
15. 07:49 AM - Re: OOPS!! What have I done??? (Billy & Tami Britton)
16. 07:52 AM - Re: Re: Can I use this? (Carl Froehlich)
17. 07:55 AM - Re: RV-10 with James Aircraft Holy Cowl (Bill Mauledriver Watson)
18. 07:58 AM - Re: Can I use this? (johngoodman)
19. 08:10 AM - Re: Re: Can I use this? (Dj Merrill)
20. 08:14 AM - Re: Getting nose wheel fairing on and off (Marcus Cooper)
21. 08:45 AM - Re: Getting nose wheel fairing on and off (Jae Chang)
22. 08:45 AM - Re: headliner finishing (Marcus Cooper)
23. 08:45 AM - Re: Re: Can I use this? (Seano)
24. 08:57 AM - Re: OOPS!! What have I done??? (Jae Chang)
25. 08:59 AM - Re: Re: RV-10 with James Aircraft Holy Cowl (Perry, Phil)
26. 09:04 AM - Re: Re: RV-10 with James Aircraft Holy Cowl (Rhonda Bewley)
27. 10:14 AM - Re: Re: RV-10 with James Aircraft Holy Cowl (Bob Leffler)
28. 11:04 AM - Re: Re: RV-10 with James Aircraft Holy Cowl (Perry, Phil)
29. 11:25 AM - Re: Re: Can I use this? (Linn Walters)
30. 11:42 AM - Re: Re: RV-10 with James Aircraft Holy Cowl (Robin Marks)
31. 12:05 PM - Re: RV10 Travel (Robin Marks)
32. 12:14 PM - Re: Re: Overhead console configuration (Robin Marks)
33. 12:30 PM - Re: Re: Can I use this? (Kelly McMullen)
34. 12:34 PM - Re: Can I use this? (John Gonzalez)
35. 12:43 PM - Re: Re: Can I use this? (Dj Merrill)
36. 12:53 PM - Re: Re: Can I use this? (Jack Phillips)
37. 01:33 PM - Re: Can I use this? (Perry, Phil)
38. 01:34 PM - Re: Re: Can I use this? (Linn Walters)
39. 02:00 PM - Re: RV-10 with James Aircraft Holy Cowl (christopher johnston)
40. 02:37 PM - Re: Re: RV-10 with James Aircraft Holy Cowl (gary)
41. 04:31 PM - Re: AMSAFE inflatable belts (Ron B.)
42. 04:47 PM - Something to checkout (Rick)
43. 05:10 PM - Re: Something to checkout (gary)
44. 05:57 PM - Magneto Rebuild question (Stephen Blank,DDS)
45. 05:58 PM - trimming front ramps with prop (Pascal)
46. 06:22 PM - Re: Magneto Rebuild question (Seano)
47. 06:22 PM - Re: Something to checkout (David Maib)
48. 07:13 PM - Re: Re: Can I use this? (Kelly McMullen)
49. 07:28 PM - Re: headliner finishing (rvdave)
50. 07:55 PM - Re: Magneto Rebuild question (Kelly McMullen)
51. 08:03 PM - Re: Something to checkout (Perry, Phil)
52. 08:03 PM - Re: RV-10 with James Aircraft Holy Cowl (Robin Marks)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 with James Aircraft Holy Cowl |
We are flying with the James cowl and plenum. Looking at it from a few different
angles build, looks, cost, and performance, I will provide this input.
I dont think the cowl is much different from a build standpoint compared to installing
the Vans cowl; most of the steps are the same. The plenum is basically
a good starting point, installing the plenum will teach you all sorts of fiberglass
fabrication techniques. The James plenum is NOT a bolt on item.
>From a looks perspective, I (again I) think it looks great; the larger, more extended
spinner really sets off the nose.
>From a cost perspective the James cowl forces you to the larger spinner, which
is expensive. The plenum forces you to run turbo injector nozzles to achieve
lower fuel flow rates. This is because the pressure on top of the engine is
lower than the pressure in a stock setup. This means that instead of air flowing
through the injector body breather hole to help atomize the fuel, the air
actually flows back up through the nozzle causing the engine to run rough when
leaned. In some cases the flow is significant enough that you will see fuel
stains around the injectors. You will lay out an additional ~$700 - $800 to get
this setup installed. The costs dont end just with the cowl and plenum, plan
on a significant bump in $, and time.
>From a performance standpoint the James cowl and plenum are far superior. You
will gain whatever number you care to keep telling yourself. In our case we
like to tell ourselves that we gained the 10 knots, which makes it all worth it!!
Bottom line do not believe any of the numbers, they are all hype. Until
someone takes the time to install the two cowl setups on the same aircraft (I
mean same tail number airplane, not model), the numbers are not believable. I
will say that I am fairly confident that it is not a performance penalty. Cooling
performance is uncertain, in our installation we do not have any cooling
problems (we have 260 HP), I know of others who are having cooling problems.
If we were building another I just dont know if we would go down the same road.
I would like to see the results of a James cowl installation without using the
plenum. It seems the only hands down benefit are the looks, and the looks
are a purely personal perception.
--------
Jason Kreidler
4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
N44YH - Flying - #40617
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280642#280642
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Getting nose wheel fairing on and off |
I just remove the two hex bolts that hold the front of the brackets
to the fork and slide the whole thing off. Very easy.
David Maib
40559
Flying
On Jan 8, 2010, at 1:26 AM, Jae Chang wrote:
Does anyone else think the aft nosewheel fairing is difficult to get
on and off? With the aluminum brackets in place, you have to really
open up the fairing in order to just clear them because the opening
is narrower than the mount points. Once the brackets clear the
narrower opening and are in position, then they are within a quarter
inch or so of the fairing itself, so nothing seems abnormal other
than trying to get the fairing into place.
I can see this being a real difficulty for checking and airing the
front tire. I checked the archives but found no mention of this, so I
have to ask!
Also, i am wondering what technique people may have used to build up
the mount points with flox. The best chance for a neat job seems like
taking a syringe and squeezing flox in thru the mount screw holes in
the fairing. Using the technique I used on the main fairings, seems
like a small chance for doing a neat job.
Jae
40533
Fricking Air Box
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: headliner finishing |
I was over at Carl Froehlich's house just last week and he showed me some nifty
window closeout rings he made himself out of fiberglass. They seem simple enough
to make so that's the route I'm going to take, at least for the windows.
--------
Todd Stovall
728TT (reserved)
RV-10 Empacone, Wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280644#280644
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 with James Aircraft Holy Cowl |
I am using the standard Vans cowling and cooling plenum from Steve
Dinieri at iflyrv10.com and cooling and oil temps have been perfect.
14 months and 175 hours.
David Maib
40559
Flying
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things
you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines.
Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore. Dream. Discover."
-Mark Twain
On Jan 8, 2010, at 12:08 AM, Dan Charrois wrote:
Hi there. I'm about to order my fuselage and finishing kits for my
RV-10 and sorting out components to delete so as to replace/upgrade
from stock Van's parts. One big ticket item I've been contemplating
is the cowling. I intend on using an IO-540, either a stock Lycoming
or from BPE depending on budget at the time.
Anyway, I've searched through the mailing list and various online
forums, but any posts I've found relating to the James Aircraft cowl
are fairly dated.. there seems to be some information on people's
experiences with the James Aircraft cowls for other RVs, but not much
for their RV-10 offering. I know some people are planning on using
it, but are any flying? What about the specs on it - it is claimed
to be faster, more fuel efficient, and better at cooling... is that
measurable, or mostly just hype? I've read that it is a bit more
work to fit than the standard Van's cowl - what are people's
experiences with that? I'm trying to sort out if it's worth it (to
me - everyone has their own criteria) in terms of cost and time, so
any experiences that anyone has with it would be greatly appreciated!
And if anyone has other advice on components they'd upgrade from
Van's stock items for the fuselage and finishing kit, I'm all
ears.... especially for the more expensive items that can be deleted
out of Van's kit.
Thanks for your help!
Dan
--
Syzygy Research & Technology
Box 83, Legal, AB T0G 1L0 Canada
Phone: 780-961-2213
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: OOPS!! What have I done??? |
That's a good one. Thanks for that!
The very first trick I learned from Jacob at the Alexander Build Center
for that situation was to use the point of the pick to hold a piece
tightly against another piece while squeezing. You can usually do that
single handed when power squeezing. That's >|| and squeeze.
Bill "kind of wishing he was still doing a lot of riveting" Watson
Ron McGann wrote:
>
> Another trick I have used in the past is to use a slice of eraser (or
> a rubber grommet) over the top of the rivet. The rivet squeezer
> compresses the rubber against the flange to create a flush joint and
> then squeezes the rivet. Can post pics if interested.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ron
>
> VH-XRM, flying in Oz
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Stein Bruch
> *Sent:* Friday, 8 January 2010 11:20 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: OOPS!! What have I done???
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> I cant comment too much on the fixing, but I can give another lesson
> learned to your issue. I dont know what Vans is going to say. Worse
> case is you put a doubler on it and go about your day but Im guessing
> you wont need to do that.
>
> Anyway, Next time when removing the rivet from an area like (and there
> will be a next time) that put the corner/edge of a bucking bar beside
> the rivet tail that youre going to knock out. Many times with thin
> pieces of aluminum like that, the rivet will have grown in the hole on
> both sides of it, so simply punching it out without backing will
> result in deformed metal as youve seen. Placing a bucking bar or
> other heavy piece of metal beside the rivet tail when driving it out
> makes it both easier, cleaner and stops deformation.
>
> My 2 cents as usual.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Stein
>
> Stein Bruch
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill and
> Tami Britton
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 07, 2010 12:55 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV10-List: OOPS!! What have I done???
>
> I think I might have messed up pretty good this time. Working on the
> wings on pages 14-5 or 14-6 we are to rivet the forward most hole on
> the flanges of the inboard most 7 W-1011 L,R ribs. While doing this I
> had a less than acceptable rivet so I drilled it out. When removing
> the shop head (via punch/small mallet) I managed to push the rib
> flange away from the spar flange a little. So, this is where I
> hopefully learn my lesson, I tape the jaws of a pliers up to prevent
> scratching the spar/rib. I easily squeeze the pliers on the flange and
> it nicely pulls it back into place. However, I realize when I 'm done
> that the "cutters" on the pliers nipped the edge of the spar flange.
> Left a nice little "cut" on the edge of the spar flange (top
> flange--didn't count exactly where it was but outboard about 6 or 7
> ribs from the inboard most rib). Lesson here--don't use pliers on
> aluminum--I know now. Question--pics are attached--before I contact
> Vans does anybody have any suggestions/advice. Did I ruin the wing
> spar?? Do I leave it alone? Do I file it smooth and leave it? Do I use
> a scotchbrite wheel and remove a smooth "notch" section to get rid of
> it? The "nip" is somewhere between 1/16 and 1/8 inch long.
>
> Any suggestions appreciated other than telling me how stupid I am for
> doing it. I have learned my lesson.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Bill
>
> * *
> * *
> **
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
> **
> **
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> * *
> *
>
>
> *
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Getting nose wheel fairing on and off |
Ha Ha!
I like the part where it looks like an ugly long tailed rat running
around the shop.
>
>
> Jae
> 40533
> Fricking Air Box
>
do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Can I use this? |
> You want to use a acid etching primer unless you want to acid etch first
> them alodine then prime. Napa has a Acid Etching primer that is in rattle
> can and works well. There are numerous ones on the market I went with the
> Napa one and it works just fine.
>
> John G. Cumins
Do you not have to use alodine if you go the acid etching primer route?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280661#280661
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Can I use this? |
No, but understand what each chemical does. Acid etching's purpose is to roughen
(and to lessor degree clean) the surface to provide better mechanical adhesion
of the primer. Alodine is a conversion coating that provides corrosion protection
by replacing the oxide layer (ie the ALCLAD layer) that typically gets
removed either by scratches and/or dings or through the prepping process for
priming.
--------
Todd Stovall
728TT (reserved)
RV-10 Empacone, Wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280662#280662
Message 9
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| Subject: | headliner finishing |
Dave I made my own headliner out of 2 layers of 6oz fiberglass cloth. I
finished the cabin top in the area I wanted the headliner to go to a
Semi smooth finish. I waxed up the cabin top and PVA released it. 2 layers
of 6oz cloth that I trimmed exactly to my window cutouts which were cut and
trimmed to size. Trimmed head liner to size and fit and covered with auto
headliner material. I then put rubber edge trim on window opening. These
Velcro in and work great. I had about 6hrs total in the headliner pieces
from start to finish. They trim out the window really nice. It took longer
to finish the cabin top out then the headliner parts. You still need to do
some finish on the cabin top no matter which way you go.
FWIW Geoff
Geoff Combs
President
Aerosport Modeling & Design
8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
614-834-5227p
614-834-5230f
www.aerosportmodeling.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rvdave
Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 11:30 PM
Subject: RV10-List: headliner finishing
I'm actually in the planning stages of headliner material/finishing and
wondering how to finish the edges around windows and edges of doors, etc.
What are some of the methods/materials used instead of just a cut edge?
--------
Dave Ford
RV6 flying
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280620#280620
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Can I use this? |
What does Alumiprep do? Is this necessary?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280666#280666
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Can I use this? |
Alumiprep is a phosphoric acid etch. It works best if the parts are cleaned
with a good dishwashing soap and water first, rinsed, then dipped in
Alumiprep for about 3 minutes, then rinsed with cold water. The etched
surface should be primed or alodined within 8 hours.
Jack Phillips
#40610 - Wings
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JHearnsberger
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 9:54 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Can I use this?
<jakehearnsberger@gmail.com>
What does Alumiprep do? Is this necessary?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280666#280666
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Can I use this? |
If it contains chromates or MEK, you don't want it anywhere near your skin, eyes,
or nose.
John
--------
#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit progressing. Engine on floor &
Panel delivery soon.
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280672#280672
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: headliner finishing |
I bought the complete RV-10 package from Flightline Interiors. It comes with a
cord-like closeout that you attach with Gel rubber cement.
John
--------
#40572 QB. Engine on, wing attach coming soon. Panel delivery soon.
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280675#280675
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| Subject: | Re: Can I use this? |
Ok, I give up. I will do it right. I was looking for the easy way out. ;-)
Tell me what all to order. Alumiprep, Alodine, paint sprayer, etc....
Just not the most expensive products. I don't want to break the bank.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280676#280676
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| Subject: | Re: OOPS!! What have I done??? |
Thanks to everyone for the information. As I stated earlier, Scott at Vans
said it wasn't a huge deal. He said to grind or file the area back smooth.
Make sure all the "cut" is gone, smooth it out and move on. I have that
done and need to prime over the exposed aluminum and it will be history.
Thanks for the tips on holding the flanges in place while riveting.
Just yesterday I found what I think is a better way to remove drilled out
rivets. After you get the head drilled out and popped off I used a spring
loaded center punch on the rivet tail to knock it out of the hole. It
provides a more concentrated "blow" on the rivet than a standard
punch/hammer method and I can hold the flange in place while doing this to
prevent metal deformation. Generally it removed the rivet tail in the first
blow.
Thanks again,
Bill
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Bill Mauledriver Watson" <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 7:49 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: OOPS!! What have I done???
> <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
>
> That's a good one. Thanks for that!
>
> The very first trick I learned from Jacob at the Alexander Build Center
> for that situation was to use the point of the pick to hold a piece
> tightly against another piece while squeezing. You can usually do that
> single handed when power squeezing. That's >|| and squeeze.
>
> Bill "kind of wishing he was still doing a lot of riveting" Watson
>
> Ron McGann wrote:
>>
>> Another trick I have used in the past is to use a slice of eraser (or a
>> rubber grommet) over the top of the rivet. The rivet squeezer compresses
>> the rubber against the flange to create a flush joint and then squeezes
>> the rivet. Can post pics if interested.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Ron
>>
>> VH-XRM, flying in Oz
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Stein Bruch
>> *Sent:* Friday, 8 January 2010 11:20 AM
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: OOPS!! What have I done???
>>
>> Hi Bill,
>>
>> I cant comment too much on the fixing, but I can give another lesson
>> learned to your issue. I dont know what Vans is going to say. Worse
>> case is you put a doubler on it and go about your day but Im guessing
>> you wont need to do that.
>>
>> Anyway, Next time when removing the rivet from an area like (and there
>> will be a next time) that put the corner/edge of a bucking bar beside the
>> rivet tail that youre going to knock out. Many times with thin pieces of
>> aluminum like that, the rivet will have grown in the hole on both sides
>> of it, so simply punching it out without backing will result in deformed
>> metal as youve seen. Placing a bucking bar or other heavy piece of
>> metal beside the rivet tail when driving it out makes it both easier,
>> cleaner and stops deformation.
>>
>> My 2 cents as usual.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Stein
>>
>> Stein Bruch
>>
>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill and
>> Tami Britton
>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 07, 2010 12:55 PM
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* RV10-List: OOPS!! What have I done???
>>
>> I think I might have messed up pretty good this time. Working on the
>> wings on pages 14-5 or 14-6 we are to rivet the forward most hole on the
>> flanges of the inboard most 7 W-1011 L,R ribs. While doing this I had a
>> less than acceptable rivet so I drilled it out. When removing the shop
>> head (via punch/small mallet) I managed to push the rib flange away from
>> the spar flange a little. So, this is where I hopefully learn my lesson,
>> I tape the jaws of a pliers up to prevent scratching the spar/rib. I
>> easily squeeze the pliers on the flange and it nicely pulls it back into
>> place. However, I realize when I 'm done that the "cutters" on the pliers
>> nipped the edge of the spar flange. Left a nice little "cut" on the edge
>> of the spar flange (top flange--didn't count exactly where it was but
>> outboard about 6 or 7 ribs from the inboard most rib). Lesson here--don't
>> use pliers on aluminum--I know now. Question--pics are attached--before I
>> contact Vans does anybody have any suggestions/advice. Did I ruin the
>> wing spar?? Do I leave it alone? Do I file it smooth and leave it? Do I
>> use a scotchbrite wheel and remove a smooth "notch" section to get rid of
>> it? The "nip" is somewhere between 1/16 and 1/8 inch long.
>>
>> Any suggestions appreciated other than telling me how stupid I am for
>> doing it. I have learned my lesson.
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> * *
>> * *
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>> **
>> **
>> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>> **
>> **
>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>> * *
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Can I use this? |
I use a Alumiprep (PPG product) to clean aluminum parts prior to priming.
This is about as easy as it gets. Mix the Alumiprep about 4 to 1 with
water, use a red Scotch Brite pad with the Alumiprep on the parts to clean
them, rinse with water, let dry then prime with a good sealing epoxy primer
like PPG DP40LF. The first parts I primed on my 8A are now 11 years old and
still look the same as the day I primed them.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (525 hrs)
RV-10 (systems install)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JHearnsberger
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 9:54 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Can I use this?
<jakehearnsberger@gmail.com>
What does Alumiprep do? Is this necessary?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280666#280666
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 with James Aircraft Holy Cowl |
A reflection for new builders thinking about swaps and options; One
might think about swap-out options in terms of "where and on what kind
of stuff do I want to do some extra work?"
The kit from Vans is very complete and very well worked out as an obam
flying machine. The early builders solved some issues and the kit is
even more highly evolved. I didn't think that much about this as I've
gone along but I was so impressed by what I saw in the kit and heard
from others, I've generally decided to go with the stock Vans stuff and
haven't been sorry.
Where I've swapped an item or added some after market stuff, it's been
ok. I have some 2D design skills so I'm enjoying laying out my own
panel using Stein blanks... I wish I could extend that joy to coming up
with a paint scheme (it's steal and copy time). I've never worked with
aviation powerplants and didn't want to, so I stayed completely stock
and old school. The only kind of work I was somewhat familiar with and
enjoyed expanding on were the electricals and electronics so I played a
bit there using Faststack and the Aeroeletric list to make it enjoyable.
Even there, the most valuable aids included the Vans wiring diagram
(didn't get the kit, just the plans) and the Vans stock panel (which I
didn't use at all but glad I didn't swap it out).
My empiricist leanings and experiences in high performance sailplanes
makes me suspect of all performance improvements. Van's reputation
suggests a highly efficient design and a frugal implementation resulting
in a very good performing obam aircraft which seems to be the
overwhelming consensus of those that are flying. Staying stock seems
the best way to save money. Keeping it light is probably the best way
to improve aircraft performance though not as much fun to do.
Then of course there's the very personal balance between the joy of
building (add more stuff) versus the joy of flight (do less faster).
Just some thoughts for new folks from someone more than half done.
Bill
Dan Charrois wrote:
>
> Hi there. I'm about to order my fuselage and finishing kits for my RV-10 and
sorting out components to delete so as to replace/upgrade from stock Van's parts.
One big ticket item I've been contemplating is the cowling. I intend on
using an IO-540, either a stock Lycoming or from BPE depending on budget at the
time.
>
> Anyway, I've searched through the mailing list and various online forums, but
any posts I've found relating to the James Aircraft cowl are fairly dated.. there
seems to be some information on people's experiences with the James Aircraft
cowls for other RVs, but not much for their RV-10 offering. I know some people
are planning on using it, but are any flying? What about the specs on it
- it is claimed to be faster, more fuel efficient, and better at cooling...
is that measurable, or mostly just hype? I've read that it is a bit more work
to fit than the standard Van's cowl - what are people's experiences with that?
I'm trying to sort out if it's worth it (to me - everyone has their own criteria)
in terms of cost and time, so any experiences that anyone has with it would
be greatly appreciated!
>
> And if anyone has other advice on components they'd upgrade from Van's stock
items for the fuselage and finishing kit, I'm all ears.... especially for the
more expensive items that can be deleted out of Van's kit.
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
> Dan
> --
> Syzygy Research & Technology
> Box 83, Legal, AB T0G 1L0 Canada
> Phone: 780-961-2213
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Can I use this? |
I'm leaving most of the aluminum in shiny Alclad, because I plan on using Corrosion-X
once it's painted & flying. However, there are always worked over pieces
that need some primer. I use a rattle can of Napa 7220, which is one of many
brands of self-etching primer out there. It contains MEK, so I wear long sleeve
shirts, nitrile gloves, and a real respirator with ventless goggles.
John
--------
#40572 QB. Engine on, wing attach coming soon. Panel delivery soon.
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280679#280679
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Can I use this? |
On 01/08/2010 10:48 AM, JHearnsberger wrote:
>
> Ok, I give up. I will do it right. I was looking for the easy way out. ;-)
There really isn't one "right" answer. All I do is clean the part with
Denatured Alcohol using an old toothbrush, wipe it down with a rag and
let it dry, and then spray it from the can of Sherwin Williams 988 (also
Napa 7220) self etching primer. This works well for me, and the primer
is still adhering well to parts that I applied it to over 4 years ago.
This was the "easiest" method of priming for me, but the other methods
work well too, and you might find one of them even easier.
Short answer, it doesn't matter what you put on, just put something on
and you'll be fine.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Grumman Yankee Driver N9870L - http://deej.net/yankee/
Message 20
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| Subject: | Getting nose wheel fairing on and off |
Jae,
I used the same method David describes below. I was doing your method at
first until I broke down and understood the intent of the design. Leave the
brackets attached to the wheel pant and slide it all off together. The
trick for me was getting the washers lined up right putting it back
together.
As for the flox, I just put a big glop (technical term) where it needed to
go and pressed the mounts in place. You could always grind away what you
don't want after it dries but this way there were no voids.
Marcus
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Maib
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 8:01 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Getting nose wheel fairing on and off
I just remove the two hex bolts that hold the front of the brackets
to the fork and slide the whole thing off. Very easy.
David Maib
40559
Flying
On Jan 8, 2010, at 1:26 AM, Jae Chang wrote:
Does anyone else think the aft nosewheel fairing is difficult to get
on and off? With the aluminum brackets in place, you have to really
open up the fairing in order to just clear them because the opening
is narrower than the mount points. Once the brackets clear the
narrower opening and are in position, then they are within a quarter
inch or so of the fairing itself, so nothing seems abnormal other
than trying to get the fairing into place.
I can see this being a real difficulty for checking and airing the
front tire. I checked the archives but found no mention of this, so I
have to ask!
Also, i am wondering what technique people may have used to build up
the mount points with flox. The best chance for a neat job seems like
taking a syringe and squeezing flox in thru the mount screw holes in
the fairing. Using the technique I used on the main fairings, seems
like a small chance for doing a neat job.
Jae
40533
Fricking Air Box
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Getting nose wheel fairing on and off |
Ok, thanks for the replies. That makes more sense to take the fairing on
and off with the brackets. I just wasn't quite sure of the design intent
but that should certainly work. Also, it should make the flox step a bit
easier.
Jae
Marcus Cooper wrote:
>
> Jae,
> I used the same method David describes below. I was doing your method at
> first until I broke down and understood the intent of the design. Leave the
> brackets attached to the wheel pant and slide it all off together. The
> trick for me was getting the washers lined up right putting it back
> together.
>
> As for the flox, I just put a big glop (technical term) where it needed to
> go and pressed the mounts in place. You could always grind away what you
> don't want after it dries but this way there were no voids.
>
> Marcus
>
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Maib
> Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 8:01 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Getting nose wheel fairing on and off
>
>
> I just remove the two hex bolts that hold the front of the brackets
> to the fork and slide the whole thing off. Very easy.
>
> David Maib
> 40559
> Flying
>
>
> On Jan 8, 2010, at 1:26 AM, Jae Chang wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone else think the aft nosewheel fairing is difficult to get
> on and off? With the aluminum brackets in place, you have to really
> open up the fairing in order to just clear them because the opening
> is narrower than the mount points. Once the brackets clear the
> narrower opening and are in position, then they are within a quarter
> inch or so of the fairing itself, so nothing seems abnormal other
> than trying to get the fairing into place.
>
> I can see this being a real difficulty for checking and airing the
> front tire. I checked the archives but found no mention of this, so I
> have to ask!
>
> Also, i am wondering what technique people may have used to build up
> the mount points with flox. The best chance for a neat job seems like
> taking a syringe and squeezing flox in thru the mount screw holes in
> the fairing. Using the technique I used on the main fairings, seems
> like a small chance for doing a neat job.
>
> Jae
> 40533
> Fricking Air Box
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | headliner finishing |
I used the flightline interiors and really like it overall. The edging
looks great, however make sure you use the gel cement (I couldn't find any
and suspect that contributed to my problems). Also the material seems to
shrink a little over time so mine pulled away from the window and I get to
redo it when I get the time. I think really pushing it in all the way
around the window making sure there is excellent contact all the way around,
along with the right glue, will help prevent the issues I and apparently
others have had.
Marcus
40286
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Mauledriver
Watson
Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 11:41 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: headliner finishing
<MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
Flightline apparently has an edging material for their headliner
material. Just talked to them today.
Bill
rvdave wrote:
>
> I'm actually in the planning stages of headliner material/finishing and
wondering how to finish the edges around windows and edges of doors, etc.
What are some of the methods/materials used instead of just a cut edge?
>
> --------
> Dave Ford
> RV6 flying
> RV10 building
> Cadillac, MI
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280620#280620
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Can I use this? |
My system was deburr, scotch bright, prep-all, prime with HVLP using
variprime.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 8, 2010, at 8:48, "JHearnsberger" <jakehearnsberger@gmail.com>
wrote:
> >
>
> Ok, I give up. I will do it right. I was looking for the easy way
> out. ;-)
>
> Tell me what all to order. Alumiprep, Alodine, paint sprayer, etc....
>
> Just not the most expensive products. I don't want to break the bank.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280676#280676
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: OOPS!! What have I done??? |
Also, 99.9% of the time, I just drill thru the entire rivet length with
a #43 or #33 drill bit. Then 99% of the time, i get a nice donut hole of
the rivet left. The donut hole weakens the rivets hold, so a pair of
nose pliers can usually take it out easily or a center punch on the
donut ring.
The other 1%, you drill off-center and get a crescent moon or the like
and the yelling really starts! ;)
Jae
40533
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 with James Aircraft Holy Cowl |
I'm wanting to go with the Barrett Cold Air Induction and (was) planning on using
the James Cowl.
Does Vans sell a cowl for the cold air induction? Is there anyone else out there
who does, or is it something we get to modify on our own if we don't go with
James?
Thanks,
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: jkreidler [mailto:jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com]
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 6:56 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 with James Aircraft Holy Cowl
We are flying with the James cowl and plenum. Looking at it from a few different
angles build, looks, cost, and performance, I will provide this input.
I dont think the cowl is much different from a build standpoint compared to installing
the Vans cowl; most of the steps are the same. The plenum is basically
a good starting point, installing the plenum will teach you all sorts of fiberglass
fabrication techniques. The James plenum is NOT a bolt on item.
>From a looks perspective, I (again I) think it looks great; the larger, more extended
spinner really sets off the nose.
>From a cost perspective the James cowl forces you to the larger spinner, which
is expensive. The plenum forces you to run turbo injector nozzles to achieve
lower fuel flow rates. This is because the pressure on top of the engine is
lower than the pressure in a stock setup. This means that instead of air flowing
through the injector body breather hole to help atomize the fuel, the air
actually flows back up through the nozzle causing the engine to run rough when
leaned. In some cases the flow is significant enough that you will see fuel
stains around the injectors. You will lay out an additional ~$700 - $800 to get
this setup installed. The costs dont end just with the cowl and plenum, plan
on a significant bump in $, and time.
>From a performance standpoint the James cowl and plenum are far superior. You
will gain whatever number you care to keep telling yourself. In our case we
like to tell ourselves that we gained the 10 knots, which makes it all worth it!!
Bottom line do not believe any of the numbers, they are all hype. Until
someone takes the time to install the two cowl setups on the same aircraft (I
mean same tail number airplane, not model), the numbers are not believable. I
will say that I am fairly confident that it is not a performance penalty. Cooling
performance is uncertain, in our installation we do not have any cooling
problems (we have 260 HP), I know of others who are having cooling problems.
If we were building another I just dont know if we would go down the same road.
I would like to see the results of a James cowl installation without using the
plenum. It seems the only hands down benefit are the looks, and the looks
are a purely personal perception.
--------
Jason Kreidler
4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
N44YH - Flying - #40617
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280642#280642
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 with James Aircraft Holy Cowl |
ShowPlanes has been working on a -10 with our cold air with cowling options and
Bill Genevero at Airflow Systems was talking about doing some design work for
a -10 cowl with cold air. Don't know what the current status of either.
Van's does not have a cowl for the -10 with our cold air as it is not a stock engine
option directly from Lycoming.
Rhonda Barrett-Bewley
Barrett Precision Engines, Inc.
Tulsa, OK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 10:57 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 with James Aircraft Holy Cowl
I'm wanting to go with the Barrett Cold Air Induction and (was) planning on using
the James Cowl.
Does Vans sell a cowl for the cold air induction? Is there anyone else out there
who does, or is it something we get to modify on our own if we don't go with
James?
Thanks,
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: jkreidler [mailto:jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com]
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 6:56 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 with James Aircraft Holy Cowl
We are flying with the James cowl and plenum. Looking at it from a few different
angles build, looks, cost, and performance, I will provide this input.
I dont think the cowl is much different from a build standpoint compared to installing
the Vans cowl; most of the steps are the same. The plenum is basically
a good starting point, installing the plenum will teach you all sorts of fiberglass
fabrication techniques. The James plenum is NOT a bolt on item.
>From a looks perspective, I (again I) think it looks great; the larger, more extended
spinner really sets off the nose.
>From a cost perspective the James cowl forces you to the larger spinner, which
is expensive. The plenum forces you to run turbo injector nozzles to achieve
lower fuel flow rates. This is because the pressure on top of the engine is
lower than the pressure in a stock setup. This means that instead of air flowing
through the injector body breather hole to help atomize the fuel, the air
actually flows back up through the nozzle causing the engine to run rough when
leaned. In some cases the flow is significant enough that you will see fuel
stains around the injectors. You will lay out an additional ~$700 - $800 to get
this setup installed. The costs dont end just with the cowl and plenum, plan
on a significant bump in $, and time.
>From a performance standpoint the James cowl and plenum are far superior. You
will gain whatever number you care to keep telling yourself. In our case we
like to tell ourselves that we gained the 10 knots, which makes it all worth it!!
Bottom line do not believe any of the numbers, they are all hype. Until
someone takes the time to install the two cowl setups on the same aircraft (I
mean same tail number airplane, not model), the numbers are not believable. I
will say that I am fairly confident that it is not a performance penalty. Cooling
performance is uncertain, in our installation we do not have any cooling
problems (we have 260 HP), I know of others who are having cooling problems.
If we were building another I just dont know if we would go down the same road.
I would like to see the results of a James cowl installation without using the
plenum. It seems the only hands down benefit are the looks, and the looks
are a purely personal perception.
--------
Jason Kreidler
4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
N44YH - Flying - #40617
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280642#280642
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 with James Aircraft Holy Cowl |
In talking with Deems Davis and Gary Specketer at OSH, the advice I was given was
to use the Van's cowl for the BPA Cold Air Induction. The consensus was that
it was the lesser of the evils, so to speak, to modify.
Also, Rod Bower (http://www.ramairforhomebuilts.com) sells at scoop that makes using his alternative air and the Barrett Cold Air Induction easier to accommodate. In looking at his site, it appears that he just came out with a mod to accommodate his alternative air for vertical induction too. His solution is much more elegant than the one that Vans sells.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 11:57 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 with James Aircraft Holy Cowl
I'm wanting to go with the Barrett Cold Air Induction and (was) planning on using
the James Cowl.
Does Vans sell a cowl for the cold air induction? Is there anyone else out there
who does, or is it something we get to modify on our own if we don't go with
James?
Thanks,
Phil
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 with James Aircraft Holy Cowl |
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PT09PT09PT09DQoNCg0KDQo
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Can I use this? |
Also called 'aluminum bright' in hardware stores ..... and
it can be brushed on besides dipping.
Linn
Jack Phillips wrote:
>
> Alumiprep is a phosphoric acid etch. It works best if the parts are cleaned
> with a good dishwashing soap and water first, rinsed, then dipped in
> Alumiprep for about 3 minutes, then rinsed with cold water. The etched
> surface should be primed or alodined within 8 hours.
>
>
>
> Jack Phillips
> #40610 - Wings
> Raleigh, NC
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JHearnsberger
> Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 9:54 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Can I use this?
>
> <jakehearnsberger@gmail.com>
>
> What does Alumiprep do? Is this necessary?
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280666#280666
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 with James Aircraft Holy Cowl |
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Cg=
Message 31
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Don,
I live in SLO and hangar at SBP. I have large hangar (on the
west side) I am not sure if it will accommodate 2 -10's but we can give
it a try. SBP is currently building a new terminal on the east side so
any parking greater than 2 hours requires prior approval. That includes
outdoor transient parking. I suggest if you want to park at SBP then
arrange an outdoor spot and then coordinate with me once in town. I bet
we can fit them in. I travel 50% of the time so you may have the hangar
to yourself. Also of note, we do have commercial travel out of SBP so
access can be a PINA. Ask about access in/out procedures when/if you
schedule transient.
There is another -10 on the field that is a few weeks away from
first flight. That builder is Jearl Strickland. So 2 -10 and several
other RV's. Plus lots of other aviation. I just landed 2 hours ago from
Las Vegas to see an AWAX doing T & G as SBP. That was something to see
with a early steep left bank set off against the rolling green hills and
perfectly clear blue skies wearing a T-Shirt in January. Sorry fella's!
To answer your question Santa Maria is too far and Oceano is a
really small but wonderful airport. They are extremely coastal so it can
be fogged in while clear else ware. Expect no services at Oceano but a
good Mexican food right around the corner. SBP is your best choice for
full service, rent a cars and greater aviation activities etc...
Too many great places to hike, bike, surf, fly etc... to mention
now. Give me a call if you have any additional Q's.
Robin
805-801-8550
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of partner14
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 7:27 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RV10 Travel
<building_partner@yahoo.com>
We have a trip scheduled April 1-5 to Avila Beach, CA. Would love to
find a spot to stick the 10 during that time. Also recommendations as
to which airport, San Luis Co, Oceano Co, or Santa Maria, would be best
to put into.
Any builds going on??? Would be great to stop by and ck out some
projects.
Also recommendations as to places to fly, hike, etc.
Thanks, Don McDonald
--------
Don A. McDonald
40636
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280466#280466
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Overhead console configuration |
Just back in town.
Yes I did use them for laser color on clear water transfer. Turned out
GREAT! And really simple however Stein can print 4 color process and I
am told it's more UV resistant and durable than what I used. His price
is something like $20/sheet and you can fit A Lot of graphics on a
single sheet if you plan right. I see zero issues with the way I did
mine and don't expect any fading or other problems for a very long time
(I hangar N110EE) so both work well and are really affordable and a good
choice for labeling.
Robin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Berry
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 8:39 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Overhead console configuration
Phil,
See www.papilio.com for their catalog of decal supplies. They have
metallic, glow in the dark, holographic and back-lit media. While some
of these are for background effects, I would think by doing a reverse or
negative printing you could get labels were the letters would be
metallic, or whatever. I have used some of their standard black and
white decal material for labels. It is very durable stuff. I think maybe
Robin has used them also.
Jim Berry
40482
N15JB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280471#280471
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Can I use this? |
You first need to consider your need. Are you near salt water? Other
corrosive atmosphere? If so, maybe alumiprep etch, alodine, 2 part
epoxy primer is appropriate. Especially if you are aiming at 50 year
or more life to your project. If you are like some of us...in
Aridzona, over 60, no heirs gonna get their paws on it, a 20 year life
is plenty and with out corrosive air, the Nappa/Sherwin Williams
self-etching primer in rattle cans, over a clean, lightly scuffed
alclad on metal to metal joints is more than enough priming.
Some certified planes were built with no primer at all on the interior
and only had polished aluminum exterior with a few trim stripes, over
60 years ago and are still flying. So it just depends.
On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 8:48 AM, JHearnsberger
<jakehearnsberger@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Ok, I give up. I will do it right. I was looking for the easy way out. ;-)
>
> Tell me what all to order. Alumiprep, Alodine, paint sprayer, etc....
>
> Just not the most expensive products. I don't want to break the bank.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280676#280676
>
>
Message 34
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Flip your shop upside down and put it on the other side of the world where
it is now summer. You wouldn't be able to even go outside for more than a f
ew minutes in their winter.
If you work faster you will generate friction with the air around you=2C ge
nerating heat and you will also finish your project faster than the rest of
us.
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Can I use this?
From: Phil.Perry@netapp.com
Cold in Maine??
Check out tomorrow=92s Houston forecast compared to Base Orcadas=2C Antarct
ica. J
=======================
I don't yet have heat in my shop=2C but I'm almost finished with
installing a propane heating system. It is mounted=2C vented=2C and wired
=2C
and now I just need to get the propane company out to install the
propane lines and tank=2C and then check everything. Hopefully soon! It
gets slightly chilly here in Maine this time of year... =3B-)
-Dj
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Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Can I use this? |
On 01/08/2010 03:20 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
> If so, maybe alumiprep etch, alodine, 2 part
> epoxy primer is appropriate. Especially if you are aiming at 50 year
> or more life to your project. If you are like some of us...in
> Aridzona, over 60, no heirs gonna get their paws on it, a 20 year life
> is plenty and with out corrosive air, the Nappa/Sherwin Williams
Hi Kelly,
Curious, where did you find these lifetime figures for the different
priming methods? Can you point me at a web page or something? I'd like
to do a little more research into this.
Thanks!
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Grumman Yankee Driver N9870L - http://deej.net/yankee/
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Can I use this? |
I had one of those certified airplanes - a 1947 Cessna 140 which I owned
from 1998 to 2002. No priming of any kind and no corrosion after 55 years
of service, including many years tied down on the North Carolina coast.
Convinced me that primers just add weight and little else. I'm building my
-10 with alodining but no priming. Jonathon Bryant is building his nearby
with every surface primed. As soon as I get my wings built up through the
leading edges riveted to the spars (which is where he is) we will weigh my
wings and his with the same scales to see if the weight savings is
noticeable, and we'll post the results here on the forum.
(We needed a good primer war - haven't had one in a long time) Let the
flames begin!
Jack Phillips #40610
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Can I use this?
You first need to consider your need. Are you near salt water? Other
corrosive atmosphere? If so, maybe alumiprep etch, alodine, 2 part
epoxy primer is appropriate. Especially if you are aiming at 50 year
or more life to your project. If you are like some of us...in
Aridzona, over 60, no heirs gonna get their paws on it, a 20 year life
is plenty and with out corrosive air, the Nappa/Sherwin Williams
self-etching primer in rattle cans, over a clean, lightly scuffed
alclad on metal to metal joints is more than enough priming.
Some certified planes were built with no primer at all on the interior
and only had polished aluminum exterior with a few trim stripes, over
60 years ago and are still flying. So it just depends.
On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 8:48 AM, JHearnsberger
<jakehearnsberger@gmail.com> wrote:
<jakehearnsberger@gmail.com>
>
> Ok, I give up. I will do it right. I was looking for the easy way out. ;-)
>
> Tell me what all to order. Alumiprep, Alodine, paint sprayer, etc....
>
> Just not the most expensive products. I don't want to break the bank.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280676#280676
>
>
Message 37
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Last night decided that Houston is the best "coat city" in the country.
People don't spend money on coats here, so there's not a whole lot of
fashion when it gets cold.
You see coats coming out of the closet that haven't seen daylight since
1973. Butterfly collars, sheep skins on the outside and wool on the
inside. You name it. One guy reached into his pocket the other day and
found a receipt from 1981. (Okay not really, but you get the idea.) J
There are other folks who are wearing coats that fit perfectly when they
were 18 years old in Nebraska, but not so well at 42 in south Texas.
It's funnier around here than you can ever imagine.
Just this afternoon, I shut off water to two houses on our street who
busted water pipes. I'm sure their owners will be upset when they get
home, but hopefully I saved them a little cleanup work and a smaller
water bill too.
I might make another drive down the street to see if I can pick up a few
more broken pipes.
Phil
From: John Gonzalez [mailto:indigoonlatigo@msn.com]
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 2:24 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Can I use this?
Flip your shop upside down and put it on the other side of the world
where it is now summer. You wouldn't be able to even go outside for more
than a few minutes in their winter.
If you work faster you will generate friction with the air around you,
generating heat and you will also finish your project faster than the
rest of us.
________________________________
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Can I use this?
From: Phil.Perry@netapp.com
Cold in Maine??
Check out tomorrow's Houston forecast compared to Base Orcadas,
Antarctica. J
=======================
I don't yet have heat in my shop, but I'm almost finished with
installing a propane heating system. It is mounted, vented, and wired,
and now I just need to get the propane company out to install the
propane lines and tank, and then check everything. Hopefully soon! It
gets slightly chilly here in Maine this time of year... ;-)
-Dj
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Can I use this? |
Corrosion-X and ACF-50 are pretty pricey for me. I'm going
to buy a gallon of Boeshield, cut it with a suitable solvent
.... which I haven't figured out exactly what that is ....
and spray it in place of the high priced stuff.
Linn
johngoodman wrote:
> <johngoodman@earthlink.net>
>
> I'm leaving most of the aluminum in shiny Alclad, because
> I plan on using Corrosion-X once it's painted & flying.
> However, there are always worked over pieces that need
> some primer. I use a rattle can of Napa 7220, which is
> one of many brands of self-etching primer out there. It
> contains MEK, so I wear long sleeve shirts, nitrile
> gloves, and a real respirator with ventless goggles. John
>
>
> -------- #40572 QB. Engine on, wing attach coming soon.
> Panel delivery soon. N711JG reserved
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280679#280679
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 with James Aircraft Holy Cowl |
So is there anyone who is using the James cowl without the plenum?
after a bit of a building hiatus, I'm staring at the James plenum on
the shelf and I'm not getting warm fuzzies. I've already fitted the
James cowl, so I'm pretty much tied to that, but I haven't really
poked at it to see if I could make the standard baffling work. Also,
after gaining some experience with maintaining a flying airplane, I
can definitely tell that having an extra thing to pull off the engine
before I can get at the top of it would become a bummer pretty
quickly... Thoughts anyone?
cj
On Jan 8, 2010, at 11:40 AM, Robin Marks wrote:
> Recent update to my site to include James Cowl & Plenum experience.
> Bottom line for me is I would not do it again if I know what I know
> now.
> Make sure to read Update & LOP Update at the bottom of the page. I
> will add a Turbo Nozzle page in the coming weeks.
>
> Robin
>
> http://www.painttheweb.com/rv-10/SJ%20Plenum.htm
>
> =C2
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> ] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
> Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 11:03 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 with James Aircraft Holy Cowl
>
> Thanks Bob, et al.
>
> Is Vans cowl honeycomb? How difficult would it be to modify?
>
> I'm a fiberglass virgin. I know just enough to get in serious trouble.
>
> Phil
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bob Leffler <rv@thelefflers.com>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Fri Jan 08 10:13:34 2010
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 with James Aircraft Holy Cowl
>
>
> In talking with Deems Davis and Gary Specketer at OSH, the advice I
> was given was to use the Van's cowl for the BPA Cold Air Induction.
> The consensus was that it was the lesser of the evils, so to speak,
> to modify.
>
> Also, Rod Bower (http://www.ramairforhomebuilts.com) sells at scoop
> that makes using his alternative air and the Barrett Cold Air
> Induction easier to accommodate. In looking at his site, it appears
> that he just came out with a mod to accommodate his alternative air
> for vertical induction too. His solution is much more elegant than
> the one that Vans sells.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> ] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
> Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 11:57 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 with James Aircraft Holy Cowl
>
>
> I'm wanting to go with the Barrett Cold Air Induction and (was)
> planning on using the James Cowl.
>
> Does Vans sell a cowl for the cold air induction? Is there anyone
> else out there who does, or is it something we get to modify on our
> own if we don't go with James?
>
> Thanks,
> Phil
>
>
> ~,
> g(MGqz=DF=A2{=7Fnrf
>
> =B7=9B~=89=ED=B2,=DE=D9=CA%=A2=BD4=D3M4}=A7=1Er=8B=AB=89=EA=E7{=07(=BA
=B8=9E 8^E]t.+-=12f=A2=94Z+=BAe,z=D8^1=ABk=A2x=9C=B0=B8=AC=B4W=9A=B6=EA=DE
> =B0=D6=AF=8A=06 =A2=BBhn=BA0=B1=EBazf=A7=C8=B8=AC=B6=EBb'+bz=CB.r=16=AC
.+-R=7F=D2=B9=BB=1C=AE*m=8A=89=C0
> =C8b=BD=E4=9Ej=B7!=0E=8C''=86=9D=EC6=B2=06=BA0=B1=E0=A1j=D1@@=F8h=B6=8B
!j=B7=9A=9D=D9=AEr=19=AEr=19=A8 =E6=A1 =E7=E1=B6=DA=7F=FF=0C0=99=ABk=A2x=9C
> =B1=CA&=FC=D6=AF=8A=06 =A2=B4U=D7B=B2=D8m=B6=9F=FF=C3=0C
&j=DA=E8=9E',r=895=AB=81=ABh =15u=D0=B8=AC=B7=F6=8C=014N4=92X@E9=15
=0CI&z
> =DEj=D7(=9E=D7=A7=B5=A9l=A1=AB=DA=8AV=9B-=EBj=D8^Y=E6=C5=A2=BB=B1
=A8ky=F8m=B6=9F=FF~=8A=EE=9A=C9=9A=B6=BA'=89=CB=1C=A2hm=B6=9F=FF~=8A=EE=9A
=C9=9A=B6=BA'=89=CB=1C
> =A2o=DA.+- =89=ED=AE&=EE=B6*'Y=E6=D2=8A=D7=93
> =A9=E4=CA=8B=9F=A2=BC=A8=BA=B8=1E=9D=EA=E8=BA=CB.=9A+=B4=C6
=B4:=DA'W=8B=8A=CB@vh=A7j=1A=DE~=1Bm=A7=FF=F0=C3 =9A=B6=BA'=89=CB=1C
=A2o=DC=A2{k=89=BB
> =8A=89=E1=B6=DA=7F=FF=0C0=99=ABk=A2x=9C=B1=CA&=FD=CA'=B6=B8=9B=BA=D8=A8=9F
=F6o=F7=E8=9E=DF=E9 =EF=DB=A1=DC=86=D9=A5
Chris Johnston (CJ)
Re-recording Mixer
POP Sound
625 Arizona Ave.
Santa Monica, CA 90401
310.587.1255 (direct)
310.587.1222 (fax)
cjohnston@popsound.com
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 with James Aircraft Holy Cowl |
Call me or e-mail me and I will walk you through the process of mating Barrett
with the Van's cowl. Way less work than fighting with the James setup.
Gary Specketer
770-403-3450
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 11:57 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 with James Aircraft Holy Cowl
I'm wanting to go with the Barrett Cold Air Induction and (was) planning on using
the James Cowl.
Does Vans sell a cowl for the cold air induction? Is there anyone else out there
who does, or is it something we get to modify on our own if we don't go with
James?
Thanks,
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: jkreidler [mailto:jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com]
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 6:56 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 with James Aircraft Holy Cowl
We are flying with the James cowl and plenum. Looking at it from a few different
angles build, looks, cost, and performance, I will provide this input.
I dont think the cowl is much different from a build standpoint compared to installing
the Vans cowl; most of the steps are the same. The plenum is basically
a good starting point, installing the plenum will teach you all sorts of fiberglass
fabrication techniques. The James plenum is NOT a bolt on item.
>From a looks perspective, I (again I) think it looks great; the larger, more extended
spinner really sets off the nose.
>From a cost perspective the James cowl forces you to the larger spinner, which
is expensive. The plenum forces you to run turbo injector nozzles to achieve
lower fuel flow rates. This is because the pressure on top of the engine is
lower than the pressure in a stock setup. This means that instead of air flowing
through the injector body breather hole to help atomize the fuel, the air
actually flows back up through the nozzle causing the engine to run rough when
leaned. In some cases the flow is significant enough that you will see fuel
stains around the injectors. You will lay out an additional ~$700 - $800 to get
this setup installed. The costs dont end just with the cowl and plenum, plan
on a significant bump in $, and time.
>From a performance standpoint the James cowl and plenum are far superior. You
will gain whatever number you care to keep telling yourself. In our case we
like to tell ourselves that we gained the 10 knots, which makes it all worth it!!
Bottom line do not believe any of the numbers, they are all hype. Until
someone takes the time to install the two cowl setups on the same aircraft (I
mean same tail number airplane, not model), the numbers are not believable. I
will say that I am fairly confident that it is not a performance penalty. Cooling
performance is uncertain, in our installation we do not have any cooling
problems (we have 260 HP), I know of others who are having cooling problems.
If we were building another I just dont know if we would go down the same road.
I would like to see the results of a James cowl installation without using the
plenum. It seems the only hands down benefit are the looks, and the looks
are a purely personal perception.
--------
Jason Kreidler
4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
N44YH - Flying - #40617
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280642#280642
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: AMSAFE inflatable belts |
Hello Mr. Marshall
Sorry to sort of hijacking this thread, but it is still an Amsafe inertial seat
belt inquiry.
Today we removed one of our Amsafe inertial reels from my Supercub. It is part
# 4022-1-061, it's about four years old. We installed it (temporary) in our RV-10
that is under construction. The fuselage has been painted inside and out at
this time. Reading other post on the RV forums I've read that to install an
Amsafe inertial real that the 3/8" hole is not used and four # 10 bolts along
with new hard points. The reel that I have mentioned above only has two 1/4" holes
along with the 3/8" hole ( the 3/8" hole is what secures the reel in my Supercub)
. This leads me to believe this reel is not the reel most are using in
their RV-10's. First question is , could this type of reel be used in the RV-10
( we are only interested in the front seat positions)? We are not engineers
but if the structure of this reel is adequate and Van's hard point along with
the 5/16" supplied will hold a non inertial reel belt, I do not see why it will
not hold the above reel. The belt comes out of the reel almost in the same
position it would on a straight belt (non reel) system, ie. in line. With a standard
belt it would not be as tight other than when a pilot nows he is about
to have a bad landing so the fetch up would be quite sever there.
We are too far along to modify our canopy and if we don't find an alternative we
will have to go with the standard belts.
My last question (for now at least) is if the above could work, this part # belt
would have to have the two "V" web lengthened about a foot to clear the headrest(
one web on each side) . Is this something that could be done?
Hopefully I'm making myself understood.
Thanks Ron
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280753#280753
Message 42
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| Subject: | Something to checkout |
This slightly off topic but who cares!! I had an eye appointment today and
met this gentleman who hands me a little $1000 bill. On the back is his web
address and it turns out he's a retired General, all 93 years young. His
Name is William Spruance and I highly recommend his website for some
fantastic reading and talks he has given regarding aviation safety and
safety in general.
www.genspruance.com
Rick Sked
N246RS
Brrr...chilly 62 degrees here in Vegas today ;)
Message 43
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| Subject: | Something to checkout |
I don't think they make men like that any more. We were at OSH a few years
ago looking at the U-2 and my grandson commented to the gentleman standing
next to us wearing a SR71 hat that he liked that plane. Turned out that he
was Pat Halloran, retired Solicitor General of the Airforce. He had flown
both U-2's and SR71's. We had a very pleasant conversation. Great man!
Gary Specketer
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 7:47 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Something to checkout
This slightly off topic but who cares!! I had an eye appointment today and
met this gentleman who hands me a little $1000 bill. On the back is his web
address and it turns out he's a retired General, all 93 years young. His
Name is William Spruance and I highly recommend his website for some
fantastic reading and talks he has given regarding aviation safety and
safety in general.
www.genspruance.com
Rick Sked
N246RS
Brrr...chilly 62 degrees here in Vegas today ;)
Message 44
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| Subject: | Magneto Rebuild question |
We are rebuilding our 1952 C-170b mags..... how does the bearing race get
removed from the central shaft? The rebuild kit has a new one, but their
seems to be a metal sleeve above the race that does not want to simply slide
off. Any tips? Heating or just pull harder???? Thanks!
Steve RV-10 Tail Cone almost done......
Stephen G. Blank, DDS
184 NW Central Park Plaza
Port St. Lucie, FL 34986
772-878-7348 office
772-475-5556 cell
On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 6:47 PM, Rick <ricksked@cox.net> wrote:
>
> This slightly off topic but who cares!! I had an eye appointment today and
> met this gentleman who hands me a little $1000 bill. On the back is his web
> address and it turns out he's a retired General, all 93 years young. His
> Name is William Spruance and I highly recommend his website for some
> fantastic reading and talks he has given regarding aviation safety and
> safety in general.
>
> www.genspruance.com
>
> Rick Sked
> N246RS
>
> Brrr...chilly 62 degrees here in Vegas today ;)
>
>
Message 45
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|
| Subject: | trimming front ramps with prop |
Before I spend too much time on this any suggestions how to get the
bottom cowl on to trim the front air ramps? I seem to be having an issue
with getting it to fit behind the spinner and over the air ramps.
thanks!
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Magneto Rebuild question |
You can heat the assy and use freezing spray on the race
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 8, 2010, at 18:55, "Stephen Blank,DDS" <sblankdds@gmail.com>
wrote:
> We are rebuilding our 1952 C-170b mags..... how does the bearing
> race get removed from the central shaft? The rebuild kit has a new
> one, but their seems to be a metal sleeve above the race that does
> not want to simply slide off. Any tips? Heating or just pull
> harder???? Thanks!
>
> Steve RV-10 Tail Cone almost done......
>
> Stephen G. Blank, DDS
> 184 NW Central Park Plaza
> Port St. Lucie, FL 34986
>
> 772-878-7348 office
> 772-475-5556 cell
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 6:47 PM, Rick <ricksked@cox.net> wrote:
>
> This slightly off topic but who cares!! I had an eye appointment
> today and
> met this gentleman who hands me a little $1000 bill. On the back is
> his web
> address and it turns out he's a retired General, all 93 years young.
> His
> Name is William Spruance and I highly recommend his website for some
> fantastic reading and talks he has given regarding aviation safety and
> safety in general.
>
> www.genspruance.com
>
> Rick Sked
> N246RS
>
> Brrr...chilly 62 degrees here in Vegas todayes Navigator to browse
> s.com/Navigator?RV10-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> ====
>
>
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: Something to checkout |
Amazing!! When I was a 20 year old Warrant Officer Flight Candidate
at Fort Wolters, TX, in 1968, Gen. Spruance gave us a lecture about
surviving a crash. I am astounded that he is still with us. His story
was amazing and he was an amazing speaker. Fantastic!
David Maib
40559
Flying
On Jan 8, 2010, at 7:47 PM, Rick wrote:
This slightly off topic but who cares!! I had an eye appointment
today and
met this gentleman who hands me a little $1000 bill. On the back is
his web
address and it turns out he's a retired General, all 93 years young. His
Name is William Spruance and I highly recommend his website for some
fantastic reading and talks he has given regarding aviation safety and
safety in general.
www.genspruance.com
Rick Sked
N246RS
Brrr...chilly 62 degrees here in Vegas today ;)
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: Can I use this? |
Based on inspections and maintenance work I've done on aircraft dating
back to the post WWII boom through the mid-70s. Nothing scientific,
just observations. Cessna especially, did almost no interior priming.
Only those aircraft based on the coasts are likely to show corrosion
to any extent. I owned a '53 C170B that lived its early life in Long
Beach where it got some light corrosion. After that nothing changed
over the years I owned it(23) and it currently is registered in OR.
That doesn't mean all aircraft will escape corrosion in that time
frame. I'm just saying that if you are aiming for multiple decades
corrosion free, you want to do full treatment. If on the other hand
you aren't near a coast and only want the plane to last as long as you
have a medical, then no point in wasting time and money on it. It may
last 50 years with no primer...but it may not, especially if it sits
out on the ramp in the weather.
On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 1:43 PM, Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net> wrote:
>
> On 01/08/2010 03:20 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>> If so, maybe alumiprep etch, alodine, 2 part
>> epoxy primer is appropriate. Especially if you are aiming at 50 year
>> or more life to your project. If you are like some of us...in
>> Aridzona, over 60, no heirs gonna get their paws on it, a 20 year life
>> is plenty and with out corrosive air, the Nappa/Sherwin Williams
>
> Hi Kelly,
> Curious, where did you find these lifetime figures for the different
> priming methods? Can you point me at a web page or something? I'd like
> to do a little more research into this.
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Dj
>
> --
> Dj Merrill - N1JOV
> Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
> Grumman Yankee Driver N9870L - http://deej.net/yankee/
>
>
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: headliner finishing |
aerosport1 wrote:
> Dave I made my own headliner out of 2 layers of 6oz fiberglass cloth. I
> finished the cabin top in the area I wanted the headliner to go to a
> Semi smooth finish. I waxed up the cabin top and PVA released it. 2 layers
> of 6oz cloth that I trimmed exactly to my window cutouts which were cut and
> trimmed to size. Trimmed head liner to size and fit and covered with auto
> headliner material. I then put rubber edge trim on window opening. These
> Velcro in and work great. I had about 6hrs total in the headliner pieces
> from start to finish. They trim out the window really nice. It took longer
> to finish the cabin top out then the headliner parts. You still need to do
> some finish on the cabin top no matter which way you go.
>
> FWIW Geoff
>
>
> --
Geoff, I don't quite understand about the fiberglass cloth but what kind of rubber
edge trim did you use? It looks great and seems to match the Mcmaster Carr
window seal. Also does your cloth fit under the door seals?
Dave
--------
Dave Ford
RV6 flying
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280769#280769
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: Magneto Rebuild question |
You are dealing with a certified aircraft and engine. You need an A&P
with the correct tools and manual to do what you say you are doing.
Even an A&P that hasn't done one before, or doesn't have the special
tools and manual cannot legally work on that mag. I'm all for owner
maintenance, but if you don't have the specified tools and A&P
supervision to do the job right, you need to get same pronto. I don't
know if you are dealing with the original Bendix mags or Slick mags.
Mags are not difficult, but they do require some specific tooling and
expertise.
Kelly
ex C170B owner
A&P/IA
On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 6:55 PM, Stephen Blank,DDS <sblankdds@gmail.com> wrote:
> We are rebuilding our 1952 C-170b mags..... how does the bearing race get
> removed from the central shaft? The rebuild kit has a new one, but their
> seems to be a metal sleeve above the racethat does not want to simply slide
> off. Any tips? Heating or just pull harder???? Thanks!
>
> Steve RV-10 Tail Cone almost done......
> Stephen G. Blank, DDS
> 184 NW Central Park Plaza
> Port St. Lucie, FL 34986
>
> 772-878-7348 office
> 772-475-5556 cell
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 6:47 PM, Rick <ricksked@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> This slightly off topic but who cares!! I had an eye appointment today and
>> met this gentleman who hands me a little $1000 bill. On the back is his
>> web
>> address and it turns out he's a retired General, all 93 years young. His
>> Name is William Spruance and I highly recommend his website for some
>> fantastic reading and talks he has given regarding aviation safety and
>> safety in general.
>>
>> www.genspruance.com
>>
>> Rick Sked
>> N246RS
>>
>> Brrr...chilly 62 degrees here in Vegas todayes Navigator to browse
>> s.com/Navigator?RV10-List"
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> ====
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 51
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| Subject: | Something to checkout |
Here's an hour and a half with him... :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emHSdz0nWLg
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick [mailto:ricksked@cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 6:47 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Something to checkout
This slightly off topic but who cares!! I had an eye appointment today
and
met this gentleman who hands me a little $1000 bill. On the back is his
web
address and it turns out he's a retired General, all 93 years young. His
Name is William Spruance and I highly recommend his website for some
fantastic reading and talks he has given regarding aviation safety and
safety in general.
www.genspruance.com
Rick Sked
N246RS
Brrr...chilly 62 degrees here in Vegas today ;)
Message 52
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| Subject: | RV-10 with James Aircraft Holy Cowl |
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