Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:55 AM - Re: Door SB just posted (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
2. 04:26 AM - Re: electric aileron trim (orchidman)
3. 04:35 AM - Re: electric aileron trim (David Maib)
4. 05:17 AM - Re: Flap motor rod travel (Ralph E. Capen)
5. 05:29 AM - Re: Door SB just posted (DLM)
6. 05:54 AM - Door SB just postedDoor SB just posted (Wayne Edgerton)
7. 06:25 AM - Re: Door SB just postedDoor SB just posted (Fred Williams, M.D.)
8. 07:00 AM - Re: Re: electric aileron trim (Linn Walters)
9. 07:12 AM - Re: Re: electric aileron trim (Kelly McMullen)
10. 07:25 AM - Re: Door SB just posted (Les Kearney)
11. 07:28 AM - Re: Re: electric aileron trim (Linn Walters)
12. 07:42 AM - Re: Re: electric aileron trim (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
13. 07:46 AM - Re: Re: electric aileron trim (Fred Williams, M.D.)
14. 07:46 AM - Re: Flap motor rod travel (johngoodman)
15. 07:47 AM - Re: Door SB just posted (Kelly McMullen)
16. 07:48 AM - Re: Re: electric aileron trim (Rene Felker)
17. 07:49 AM - Re: Re: electric aileron trim (Tim Olson)
18. 07:53 AM - 10 SB (DLM)
19. 08:00 AM - Re: Re: electric aileron trim (Geoff Combs)
20. 08:02 AM - Re: Re: electric aileron trim (Albert Gardner)
21. 08:12 AM - Re: 10 SB (Perry, Phil)
22. 08:53 AM - Re: Re: electric aileron trim (Rick Lark)
23. 08:53 AM - Re: Re: electric aileron trim (Deems Davis)
24. 09:22 AM - Re: 10 SB (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
25. 09:25 AM - Re: Re: electric aileron trim (George, Neal E Capt USAF ACC 505 TRS/DOJ)
26. 10:35 AM - Re: 10 SB (DLM)
27. 11:04 AM - Re: 10 SB (Perry, Phil)
28. 11:04 AM - Re: 10 SB (Les Kearney)
29. 11:16 AM - Re: Door safety latch (Jim Berry)
30. 11:16 AM - Re: 10 SB (Pascal)
31. 11:18 AM - Photo's are in... Plans too.... (Perry, Phil)
32. 11:34 AM - Re: Door safety latch (Strasnuts)
33. 11:44 AM - Re: 10 SB (Bob Leffler)
34. 12:01 PM - Re: 10 SB (DLM)
35. 12:01 PM - Re: Re: Door safety latch (Ben Westfall)
36. 12:14 PM - Re: Door safety latch (Strasnuts)
37. 12:32 PM - Re: 10 SB (Kelly McMullen)
38. 12:38 PM - Re: Photo's are in... Plans too.... (orchidman)
39. 12:51 PM - Re: Re: Door safety latch (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
40. 12:59 PM - Re: Re: Door safety latch (Deems Davis)
41. 12:59 PM - Re: Re: Door safety latch (Les Kearney)
42. 12:59 PM - Re: Re: Photo's are in... Plans too.... (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
43. 01:13 PM - Re: Re: Door safety latch (Pascal)
44. 01:14 PM - Re: Re: Door safety latch (Les Kearney)
45. 01:22 PM - Re: Re: Door safety latch (Deems Davis)
46. 01:22 PM - Re: Re: Door safety latch (Perry, Phil)
47. 01:30 PM - Re: Re: Photo's are in... Plans too.... (Jae Chang)
48. 01:32 PM - Re: 10 SB (DLM)
49. 01:36 PM - Re: Re: Door safety latch (Jae Chang)
50. 01:45 PM - Re: Re: electric aileron trim (Linn Walters)
51. 02:03 PM - Re: Re: Door safety latch (Linn Walters)
52. 02:31 PM - Re: Re: Door safety latch (Scott Schmidt)
53. 02:31 PM - Re: Re: Door safety latch (Hugo)
54. 02:55 PM - Re: Re: Door safety latch (DLM)
55. 03:05 PM - Re: Re: Door safety latch (ricksked@cox.net)
56. 03:25 PM - Re: Re: Door safety latch (Danny Riggs)
57. 03:29 PM - Re: Re: electric aileron trim (Kelly McMullen)
58. 03:59 PM - Re: Re: Door safety latch (John Cumins)
59. 03:59 PM - Re: Re: Door safety latch (Pascal)
60. 04:17 PM - Re: Re: Door safety latch (ddddsp1@juno.com)
61. 04:25 PM - Re: 10 SB (Pascal)
62. 04:36 PM - Re: Re: Door safety latch (ddddsp1@juno.com)
63. 04:44 PM - Re: Door safety latch (Jim Berry)
64. 04:48 PM - Re: Re: Door safety latch (Rick)
65. 04:52 PM - Re: 10 SB (DLM)
66. 04:55 PM - Re: Re: Door safety latch (Jeff Carpenter)
67. 06:23 PM - Re: 10 SB (Kelly McMullen)
68. 06:32 PM - Re: Re: Door safety latch (Don McDonald)
69. 06:58 PM - Re: 10 SB (DLM)
70. 07:12 PM - Re: 10 SB (Kelly McMullen)
71. 07:18 PM - Re: 10 SB (johngoodman)
72. 07:19 PM - doors, trim, questions ()
73. 07:19 PM - Re: Door SB just posted (John Cox)
74. 07:54 PM - Re: Door SB just posted (Don McDonald)
75. 08:40 PM - Re: doors, trim, questions (Don McDonald)
76. 09:02 PM - Re: Re: Door safety latch (Ron McGann)
77. 09:04 PM - Re: Re: 10 SB (Sean Stephens)
78. 09:04 PM - Re: doors, trim, questions (Kelly McMullen)
79. 09:04 PM - Re: 10 SB (John Cox)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Door SB just posted |
Ron,
Unless the Aussie FAA sees things differently than our FAA, there is no s
uch thing as "grounded" or "mandatory" in the experimental world as the pil
ot and the FAA/NTSB are really the only two authorities here that can groun
d an aircraft here. As you said, people have been flying for years before
Van's acknowledged the problem with this SB. Use good judgment and go fly.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron McGann
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 11:45 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Door SB just posted
Time of Compliance: Before further flight
So now we are grounded for an issue that we have known about for more than
2 years.
Will be interesting to see how long it takes to get the parts to us in the
deeeeep south.
A real pisser - in the middle of our peak flying season no less.
Ron
VH-XRM, not flying in Oz.
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Friday, 15 January 2010 12:17 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Door SB just posted
Safety Latch for the Door SB was just posted.......
http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/sb10-1-4.pdf
I looked to see if details of the changes were online, but couldn't find th
em. I guess who ever receives there kit in the mail first will need to up
date us all.
Bob
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: electric aileron trim |
jrlark wrote:
>
> As I have already fabricated a rudder trim tab system very similar to Brian
Steeves, I'm wondering if the aileron system could also be fabricated in house,
as opposed to buying the Vans kit?
>
In my opinion, you need both. Vans aileron trim works and unless you want to spend
a bunch of time designing and making your own, Vans is simple to build and
install.
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
(N2GB Flying)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281590#281590
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: electric aileron trim |
I installed the Van's aileron trim and am glad I did. Fuel imbalance
and passenger loading makes a noticeable need for trim. If you feel
like fabricating your own system, I say go for it!
$.02 worth.
David Maib
40559
Flying
On Jan 15, 2010, at 12:42 AM, Rick Lark wrote:
Hey Guys
I'm getting ready to order my slow build wing kit and am wondering if
most builders have also bought the aileron trim kit from Vans. I
intend to install a Tru Tak autopilot and probably the Safety trim
system that Bob Newman sells. Not sure if using the autopilot etc
makes any difference with regards to the aileron trim system (I think
not).
As I have already fabricated a rudder trim tab system very similar to
Brian Steeves, I'm wondering if the aileron system could also be
fabricated in house, as opposed to buying the Vans kit?
All opinions welcome. Thx.
Rick
#40956
Southampton, Ont
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Flap motor rod travel |
If there isn't a 'plans-called-for' position, or you're doing it differently; I
would suggest waiting till the wings are on and you can use the actual...before
mounting anything.
I recall measuring the throw for my 6A and it was at least 5 inches of throw IIRC.
I found that only useful for general planning purposes and didn't drill any
mounting holes until stuff was there to use.
I relocated the flap drive on my 6A from the center to the side (the way the 8 is designed) using an idea that I took from Mel Jordan (http://bmnellis.com/BuilderIdeas/flap_mod.htm). Mel visited my project while it was under construction.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Chris <toaster73@embarqmail.com>
>Sent: Jan 14, 2010 8:43 PM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV10-List: Flap motor rod travel
>
>I am trying to set up my flap position sensor (ray allen) but the wings are
>not on yet. Can someone tell me how far the rod travels out of the motor
>assembly? Does it start fully retracted (reflex position) and then move "X"
>inches out of the motor assembly which would be full flaps? I need to know
>"X". Does this make sense?
>
>Thanks
>
>Chris
>
>#40072
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Door SB just posted |
vans can't ground anybody; unless its in your government's regulations.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron McGann
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 10:45 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Door SB just posted
Time of Compliance: Before further flight
So now we are grounded for an issue that we have known about for more than 2
years.
Will be interesting to see how long it takes to get the parts to us in the
deeeeep south.
A real pisser - in the middle of our peak flying season no less.
Ron
VH-XRM, not flying in Oz.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Friday, 15 January 2010 12:17 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Door SB just posted
Safety Latch for the Door SB was just posted...
http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/sb10-1-4.pdf
I looked to see if details of the changes were online, but couldn't find
them. I guess who ever receives there kit in the mail first will need to
update us all.
Bob
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 6
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| Subject: | Door SB just postedDoor SB just posted |
No hablo ingles, senor !!!!!
There, that fixed that problem :>}
Wayne Edgerton N602WT
do not archive
Time: 09:46:22 PM PST US
From: "Ron McGann" <ronrvbuilder@bigpond.com>
Subject: Door SB just posted
Time of Compliance: Before further flight
So now we are grounded for an issue that we have known about for
more than 2
years.
Will be interesting to see how long it takes to get the parts to
us in the
deeeeep south.
A real pisser - in the middle of our peak flying season no less.
Ron
VH-XRM, not flying in Oz.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Door SB just postedDoor SB just posted |
Has anyone seen the "latch? " Also known as "el fixo, slightly lato? "
Dr Fred
Do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: electric aileron trim |
fwiw. I'm using model airplane servos to turn hinge mounted on the
trailing edge of rudder and one aileron. You need a PWM signal to
operate the servos, but that's easy for me.
Linn
orchidman wrote:
>
>
> jrlark wrote:
>>
>> As I have already fabricated a rudder trim tab system very similar to Brian
Steeves, I'm wondering if the aileron system could also be fabricated in house,
as opposed to buying the Vans kit?
>>
>
> In my opinion, you need both. Vans aileron trim works and unless you want to
spend a bunch of time designing and making your own, Vans is simple to build
and install.
>
> --------
> Gary Blankenbiller
> RV10 - # 40674
> (N2GB Flying)
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281590#281590
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: electric aileron trim |
I question the need for both aileron trim and autopilot. The autopilot
should be able to handle the minor imbalances. While a trim tab could
reduce loads on the autopilot, it seems like unneeded extra
complexity. I'd be interested in hearing from flying -10s whether they
have and actually use both systems. I could see one or the other, but
both would appear to be overkill.
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:25 AM, orchidman <gary@wingscc.com> wrote:
>
>
> jrlark wrote:
>>
>> As I have already fabricated a rudder trim tab system very similar to Brian
Steeves, I'm wondering if the aileron system could also be fabricated in house,
as opposed to buying the Vans kit?
>>
>
> In my opinion, you need both. Vans aileron trim works and unless you want to
spend a bunch of time designing and making your own, Vans is simple to build and
install.
>
> --------
> Gary Blankenbiller
> RV10 - # 40674
> (N2GB Flying)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281590#281590
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Door SB just posted |
Damn
You mean I'm grounded until I get this done!
Except for the panel, wiring, and wing installation I was ready to go flying
today....
Cheers
Les
#40643
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron McGann
Sent: January-14-10 10:45 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Door SB just posted
Time of Compliance: Before further flight
So now we are grounded for an issue that we have known about for more than 2
years.
Will be interesting to see how long it takes to get the parts to us in the
deeeeep south.
A real pisser - in the middle of our peak flying season no less.
Ron
VH-XRM, not flying in Oz.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Friday, 15 January 2010 12:17 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Door SB just posted
Safety Latch for the Door SB was just posted...
http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/sb10-1-4.pdf
I looked to see if details of the changes were online, but couldn't find
them. I guess who ever receives there kit in the mail first will need to
update us all.
Bob
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: electric aileron trim |
I'd be interested in 'real life' info too. I had a discussion with a
friend with extensive autopilot experience, and his comment was that if
the aircraft was out of trim, the autopilot 'flew funny'. I'm guessing
it's because the autopilots he was flying behind had rate gyros, not
solid state ones so prevalent now. Since I was already going to install
the model airplane servos and designed the PWM module, adding the
aileron trim was real easy. I've never had actrive trim on anything
I've flown, so this is new ground for me.
Linn
Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> I question the need for both aileron trim and autopilot. The
> autopilot should be able to handle the minor imbalances. While a trim
> tab could reduce loads on the autopilot, it seems like unneeded extra
> complexity. I'd be interested in hearing from flying -10s whether
> they have and actually use both systems. I could see one or the
> other, but both would appear to be overkill.
>
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:25 AM, orchidman <gary@wingscc.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> jrlark wrote:
>>> As I have already fabricated a rudder trim tab system very
>>> similar to Brian Steeves, I'm wondering if the aileron system
>>> could also be fabricated in house, as opposed to buying the Vans
>>> kit?
>>>
>> In my opinion, you need both. Vans aileron trim works and unless
>> you want to spend a bunch of time designing and making your own,
>> Vans is simple to build and install.
>>
>> -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 (N2GB Flying)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281590#281590
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: electric aileron trim |
If you want to save time on the controller, for a cost, Eric at Perihelion Designs
has a nice little unit called the EGPNMSC.
http://www.periheliondesign.com/moreproducts.htm
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: electric aileron trim
I'd be interested in 'real life' info too. I had a discussion with a
friend with extensive autopilot experience, and his comment was that if
the aircraft was out of trim, the autopilot 'flew funny'. I'm guessing
it's because the autopilots he was flying behind had rate gyros, not
solid state ones so prevalent now. Since I was already going to install
the model airplane servos and designed the PWM module, adding the
aileron trim was real easy. I've never had actrive trim on anything
I've flown, so this is new ground for me.
Linn
Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> I question the need for both aileron trim and autopilot. The
> autopilot should be able to handle the minor imbalances. While a trim
> tab could reduce loads on the autopilot, it seems like unneeded extra
> complexity. I'd be interested in hearing from flying -10s whether
> they have and actually use both systems. I could see one or the
> other, but both would appear to be overkill.
>
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:25 AM, orchidman <gary@wingscc.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> jrlark wrote:
>>> As I have already fabricated a rudder trim tab system very
>>> similar to Brian Steeves, I'm wondering if the aileron system
>>> could also be fabricated in house, as opposed to buying the Vans
>>> kit?
>>>
>> In my opinion, you need both. Vans aileron trim works and unless
>> you want to spend a bunch of time designing and making your own,
>> Vans is simple to build and install.
>>
>> -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 (N2GB Flying)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281590#281590
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: electric aileron trim |
Kelley;
I put both in mine. Most of the time you will set the aileron trim at
one position and never move it. Depending on who's flying with you (I
tend to have the same left wheel wear problem Deems has), you may need
to adjust it. Also, I had to have my autopilot serviced and did a
couple long cross country trips. Having the aileron trim helps decrease
your workload and cut down some of the heading drift. My vote is that
it is worth the installation.
Dr Fred.
Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> I question the need for both aileron trim and autopilot. The autopilot
> should be able to handle the minor imbalances. While a trim tab could
> reduce loads on the autopilot, it seems like unneeded extra
> complexity. I'd be interested in hearing from flying -10s whether they
> have and actually use both systems. I could see one or the other, but
> both would appear to be overkill.
>
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:25 AM, orchidman <gary@wingscc.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> jrlark wrote:
>>
>>> As I have already fabricated a rudder trim tab system very similar to Brian
Steeves, I'm wondering if the aileron system could also be fabricated in house,
as opposed to buying the Vans kit?
>>>
>>>
>> In my opinion, you need both. Vans aileron trim works and unless you want to
spend a bunch of time designing and making your own, Vans is simple to build
and install.
>>
>> --------
>> Gary Blankenbiller
>> RV10 - # 40674
>> (N2GB Flying)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281590#281590
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Flap motor rod travel |
[quote="toaster73(at)embarqmail.c"]I am trying to set up my flap position sensor
(ray allen) but the wings are not on yet. Can someone tell me how far the rod
travels out of the motor assembly? Does it start fully retracted (reflex position)
and then move X inches out of the motor assembly which would be full
flaps? I need to know X. Does this make sense?
Thanks
Chris
#40072
> [b]
Chris,
I am also using the Ray Allen position sensor (the VP200 needs it), so I removed
and sold the Van's unit. The limited travel of the RA means you will have to
position the rod very close to axis. I calculated about an inch, which is very
close to the nearest lightening hole at the axis. I put a unique little spacer
I found at Ace Hardware in the hole. It has a threaded hole in it. I mounted
the RA with double-sided tape and ran the motor full throw. No matter what you
do, it will pull the RA off the tape, one way or the other.
There is another RV-10 in the hangar with me and I tried to figure it out on theirs,
with limited success. I have decided that I will leave the RA loose for
now, and once the flaps are on, find the right place. I suspect I will need to
offset the mounting point a little more towards the axis. A task for another
day.
John
--------
#40572 QB. Engine on, wing attach coming soon. Panel delivery soon.
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281625#281625
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Door SB just posted |
So first flight at noon Les? ;-p
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 8:21 AM, Les Kearney <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
> Damn
>
> You mean I'm grounded until I get this done!
>
> Except for the panel, wiring, and wing installation I was ready to go flying
> today....
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
> #40643
>
> ________________________________
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron McGann
> Sent: January-14-10 10:45 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Door SB just posted
>
> Time of Compliance: Before further flight
>
>
> So now we are grounded for an issue that we have known about for more than 2
> years.
>
>
> Will be interesting to see how long it takes to get the parts to us in the
> deeeeep south.
>
> A real pisser in the middle of our peak flying season no less.
>
>
> Ron
>
> VH-XRM, not flying in Oz.
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
> Sent: Friday, 15 January 2010 12:17 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Door SB just posted
>
>
> Safety Latch for the Door SB was just posted.
>
>
> http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/sb10-1-4.pdf
>
>
> I looked to see if details of the changes were online, but couldnt find
> them. I guess who ever receives there kit in the mail first will need to
> update us all.
>
>
> Bob
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: electric aileron trim |
I have both and use both. I would highly recommend having both unless you
fly almost 100% of the time on the autopilot. Fuel in-balance, fat pilot ,
pattern work, hood work ........ I use the trim every flight.
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: electric aileron trim
I question the need for both aileron trim and autopilot. The autopilot
should be able to handle the minor imbalances. While a trim tab could
reduce loads on the autopilot, it seems like unneeded extra
complexity. I'd be interested in hearing from flying -10s whether they
have and actually use both systems. I could see one or the other, but
both would appear to be overkill.
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:25 AM, orchidman <gary@wingscc.com> wrote:
>
>
> jrlark wrote:
>>
>> As I have already fabricated a rudder trim tab system very similar to
Brian Steeves, I'm wondering if the aileron system could also be fabricated
in house, as opposed to buying the Vans kit?
>>
>
> In my opinion, you need both. Vans aileron trim works and unless you want
to spend a bunch of time designing and making your own, Vans is simple to
build and install.
>
> --------
> Gary Blankenbiller
> RV10 - # 40674
> (N2GB Flying)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281590#281590
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: electric aileron trim |
You can question the need if you wish. :)
I'll tell you what...the RV-10's tanks are so looooong that they
give a pretty hefty imbalance. Sure, with the AP on you
won't notice it too much, but even just hand flying it around
town, that plane can get very wing-heavy. I would never want
to be without the ability to compensate it. Now, depending
on your loading and everything else, you may only use it on
30-60% of your flights, but when you need it, you'll really
want it. It's easier to build into the wing when the wing is
still on the bench and before you paint the access covers, so
I'd say in my recommendation I'd consider it standard equipment
and just do it. But, if someone really likes to suffer, because
suffering makes them feel more like a man, then skip it for
now and just let that nagging voice in the back of your head
keep talking to you as you fly your 200th hour wishing you'd
have put it in.
Tim
Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> I question the need for both aileron trim and autopilot. The autopilot
> should be able to handle the minor imbalances. While a trim tab could
> reduce loads on the autopilot, it seems like unneeded extra
> complexity. I'd be interested in hearing from flying -10s whether they
> have and actually use both systems. I could see one or the other, but
> both would appear to be overkill.
>
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:25 AM, orchidman <gary@wingscc.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> jrlark wrote:
>>> As I have already fabricated a rudder trim tab system very similar to Brian
Steeves, I'm wondering if the aileron system could also be fabricated in house,
as opposed to buying the Vans kit?
>>>
>> In my opinion, you need both. Vans aileron trim works and unless you want to
spend a bunch of time designing and making your own, Vans is simple to build
and install.
>>
>> --------
>> Gary Blankenbiller
>> RV10 - # 40674
>> (N2GB Flying)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281590#281590
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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I talked to Vans this morning about the SB. They referred me to the SB that
they say is being mailed this week. I asked if there was a PDF and they
indicated not. Perhaps someone on this list , upon receipt of the SB, could
send it to the list in PDF form.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: electric aileron trim |
Take Tim's advice. It is easy to install and worth every penny. I only have
44 hrs on my Rv-10 and the first 32 were without auto pilot working
Correctly. I was glad I had aileron trim.
Geoff
Geoff Combs
President
Aerosport Modeling & Design
8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
614-834-5227p
614-834-5230f
www.aerosportmodeling.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: electric aileron trim
You can question the need if you wish. :)
I'll tell you what...the RV-10's tanks are so looooong that they give a
pretty hefty imbalance. Sure, with the AP on you won't notice it too much,
but even just hand flying it around town, that plane can get very
wing-heavy. I would never want to be without the ability to compensate it.
Now, depending on your loading and everything else, you may only use it on
30-60% of your flights, but when you need it, you'll really want it. It's
easier to build into the wing when the wing is still on the bench and before
you paint the access covers, so I'd say in my recommendation I'd consider it
standard equipment and just do it. But, if someone really likes to suffer,
because suffering makes them feel more like a man, then skip it for now and
just let that nagging voice in the back of your head keep talking to you as
you fly your 200th hour wishing you'd have put it in.
Tim
Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> I question the need for both aileron trim and autopilot. The autopilot
> should be able to handle the minor imbalances. While a trim tab could
> reduce loads on the autopilot, it seems like unneeded extra
> complexity. I'd be interested in hearing from flying -10s whether they
> have and actually use both systems. I could see one or the other, but
> both would appear to be overkill.
>
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:25 AM, orchidman <gary@wingscc.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> jrlark wrote:
>>> As I have already fabricated a rudder trim tab system very similar
>>> to Brian Steeves, I'm wondering if the aileron system could also be
>>> fabricated in house, as opposed to buying the Vans kit?
>>>
>> In my opinion, you need both. Vans aileron trim works and unless you
>> want to spend a bunch of time designing and making your own, Vans is
>> simple to build and install.
>>
>> --------
>> Gary Blankenbiller
>> RV10 - # 40674
>> (N2GB Flying)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281590#281590
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: electric aileron trim |
I believe you need the aileron trim with an autopilot. I have a TruTrak but
you need to trim the aircraft before engaging the autopilot for two reasons.
When you disengage the aqutopilot an out-of-trim condition will cause abrupt
aircraft movement especially in pitch. Second, again especially in pitch,
the autopilot may "slip" if the out-of-trim condition is too strong. That
built-in slippage is what let's you overpower a runaway autopilot.
Albert Gardner
N991RV
Yuma, AZ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: electric aileron trim
I'd be interested in 'real life' info too. I had a discussion with a
friend with extensive autopilot experience, and his comment was that if
the aircraft was out of trim, the autopilot 'flew funny'. I'm guessing
it's because the autopilots he was flying behind had rate gyros, not
solid state ones so prevalent now. Since I was already going to install
the model airplane servos and designed the PWM module, adding the
aileron trim was real easy. I've never had actrive trim on anything
I've flown, so this is new ground for me.
Linn
Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> I question the need for both aileron trim and autopilot. The
> autopilot should be able to handle the minor imbalances. While a trim
> tab could reduce loads on the autopilot, it seems like unneeded extra
> complexity. I'd be interested in hearing from flying -10s whether
> they have and actually use both systems. I could see one or the
> other, but both would appear to be overkill.
>
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:25 AM, orchidman <gary@wingscc.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> jrlark wrote:
>>> As I have already fabricated a rudder trim tab system very
>>> similar to Brian Steeves, I'm wondering if the aileron system
>>> could also be fabricated in house, as opposed to buying the Vans
>>> kit?
>>>
>> In my opinion, you need both. Vans aileron trim works and unless
>> you want to spend a bunch of time designing and making your own,
>> Vans is simple to build and install.
>>
>> -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 (N2GB Flying)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281590#281590
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 21
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David,
If you're looking for the verbage of the SB, it's right here.
If you're looking for the plans revisions, I haven't seen those yet...
Phil
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:15 AM
Subject: RV10-List: 10 SB
I talked to Vans this morning about the SB. They referred me to the SB
that they say is being mailed this week. I asked if there was a PDF and
they indicated not. Perhaps someone on this list , upon receipt of the
SB, could send it to the list in PDF form.
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: electric aileron trim |
Albert, good points. The aileron trims a "go" from my perspective. A
friend with a T210 Cessna has an Stec55X that will squawk at him if the
trim is out too much (PITA), so I think it's a good idea.
(by the way Albert, nice design on your spring biased rudder trim)
Now my next question, are the Vans deluxe locking fuel caps worth the work
to install? When this aircraft is completed, it may be tied down outside for
a year or so. The catalogue description says they certainly are not a drop
in replacement. That's ok to me as long as the modification is reasonable.
Most of the archive messages seem to indicate they are worth the time and
expense. Again all opinions are welcome.
You guys have no idea how much easier it is to make these decisions with
input from this forum (especially since I'm stuck on the far north tundra of
southern Ontario). Thx again
Rick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud@roadrunner.com>
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 11:00 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: electric aileron trim
>
> I believe you need the aileron trim with an autopilot. I have a TruTrak
> but
> you need to trim the aircraft before engaging the autopilot for two
> reasons.
> When you disengage the aqutopilot an out-of-trim condition will cause
> abrupt
> aircraft movement especially in pitch. Second, again especially in pitch,
> the autopilot may "slip" if the out-of-trim condition is too strong. That
> built-in slippage is what let's you overpower a runaway autopilot.
> Albert Gardner
> N991RV
> Yuma, AZ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 8:24 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: electric aileron trim
>
>
> I'd be interested in 'real life' info too. I had a discussion with a
> friend with extensive autopilot experience, and his comment was that if
> the aircraft was out of trim, the autopilot 'flew funny'. I'm guessing
> it's because the autopilots he was flying behind had rate gyros, not
> solid state ones so prevalent now. Since I was already going to install
> the model airplane servos and designed the PWM module, adding the
> aileron trim was real easy. I've never had actrive trim on anything
> I've flown, so this is new ground for me.
> Linn
>
>
> Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>
>> I question the need for both aileron trim and autopilot. The
>> autopilot should be able to handle the minor imbalances. While a trim
>> tab could reduce loads on the autopilot, it seems like unneeded extra
>> complexity. I'd be interested in hearing from flying -10s whether
>> they have and actually use both systems. I could see one or the
>> other, but both would appear to be overkill.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:25 AM, orchidman <gary@wingscc.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> jrlark wrote:
>>>> As I have already fabricated a rudder trim tab system very
>>>> similar to Brian Steeves, I'm wondering if the aileron system
>>>> could also be fabricated in house, as opposed to buying the Vans
>>>> kit?
>>>>
>>> In my opinion, you need both. Vans aileron trim works and unless
>>> you want to spend a bunch of time designing and making your own,
>>> Vans is simple to build and install.
>>>
>>> -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 (N2GB Flying)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281590#281590
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: electric aileron trim |
Don't leave home with out it!
Deems Davis
N519PJ
www.deemsrv10.com
>
Message 24
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I think everyone is looking for the diagrams/picture of what the fix is.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
David,
If you're looking for the verbage of the SB, it's right here.
If you're looking for the plans revisions, I haven't seen those yet...
Phil
[cid:image001.jpg@01CA95D4.11672C20]
[cid:image002.jpg@01CA95D4.11672C20]
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:15 AM
Subject: RV10-List: 10 SB
I talked to Vans this morning about the SB. They referred me to the SB that
they say is being mailed this week. I asked if there was a PDF and they in
dicated not. Perhaps someone on this list , upon receipt of the SB, could s
end it to the list in PDF form.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: electric aileron trim |
...and it works very well.
neal
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:40 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: electric aileron trim
<rvbuilder@sausen.net>
If you want to save time on the controller, for a cost, Eric at Perihelion
Designs has a nice little unit called the EGPNMSC.
http://www.periheliondesign.com/moreproducts.htm
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: electric aileron trim
I'd be interested in 'real life' info too. I had a discussion with a
friend with extensive autopilot experience, and his comment was that if
the aircraft was out of trim, the autopilot 'flew funny'. I'm guessing
it's because the autopilots he was flying behind had rate gyros, not
solid state ones so prevalent now. Since I was already going to install
the model airplane servos and designed the PWM module, adding the
aileron trim was real easy. I've never had actrive trim on anything
I've flown, so this is new ground for me.
Linn
Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> I question the need for both aileron trim and autopilot. The
> autopilot should be able to handle the minor imbalances. While a trim
> tab could reduce loads on the autopilot, it seems like unneeded extra
> complexity. I'd be interested in hearing from flying -10s whether
> they have and actually use both systems. I could see one or the
> other, but both would appear to be overkill.
>
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:25 AM, orchidman <gary@wingscc.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> jrlark wrote:
>>> As I have already fabricated a rudder trim tab system very
>>> similar to Brian Steeves, I'm wondering if the aileron system
>>> could also be fabricated in house, as opposed to buying the Vans
>>> kit?
>>>
>> In my opinion, you need both. Vans aileron trim works and unless
>> you want to spend a bunch of time designing and making your own,
>> Vans is simple to build and install.
>>
>> -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 (N2GB Flying)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281590#281590
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 26
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|
I received a positive response to this email to Scott Risan this AM.
"I believe you would eliminate a lot of calls to technical support by
publishing the plans changes in PDF form. It would seem that Section 45A
will be common knowledge in about two weeks; why not publish as a PDF and
eliminate the calls to technical support looking for information. Also the
time of compliance is not very realistic; perhaps it should indicate
different times for flying and not flying aircraft, given that flying
aircraft have already been operating safely via other methods. In my case I
am the only pilot; I have lengthened Van's supplied pins to ensure complete
engagement of the metal door frames. My checklist calls for a manual feel of
the pins when engaged (twice) before takeoff."
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:16 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I think everyone is looking for the diagrams/picture of what the fix is.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
David,
If you're looking for the verbage of the SB, it's right here.
If you're looking for the plans revisions, I haven't seen those yet.
Phil
http://i47.tinypic.com/2gxpkdw.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/16hvx1t.jpg
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:15 AM
Subject: RV10-List: 10 SB
I talked to Vans this morning about the SB. They referred me to the SB that
they say is being mailed this week. I asked if there was a PDF and they
indicated not. Perhaps someone on this list , upon receipt of the SB, could
send it to the list in PDF form.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 27
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|
I wouldn't think that posting SB on a website wouldn't stand-up in court
as official notification. Meaning the clock hasn't started for
compliance.
But once you get a physical copy of the SB in the mail, with the revised
plans, with the appropriate materials; that's a different story.
The smart ones are probably those who aren't replying to the thread. J
Cause they still don't know about the SB yet......
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 12:35 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I received a positive response to this email to Scott Risan this AM.
"I believe you would eliminate a lot of calls to technical support by
publishing the plans changes in PDF form. It would seem that Section 45A
will be common knowledge in about two weeks; why not publish as a PDF
and eliminate the calls to technical support looking for information.
Also the time of compliance is not very realistic; perhaps it should
indicate different times for flying and not flying aircraft, given that
flying aircraft have already been operating safely via other methods. In
my case I am the only pilot; I have lengthened Van's supplied pins to
ensure complete engagement of the metal door frames. My checklist calls
for a manual feel of the pins when engaged (twice) before takeoff."
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:16 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I think everyone is looking for the diagrams/picture of what the fix is.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
David,
If you're looking for the verbage of the SB, it's right here.
If you're looking for the plans revisions, I haven't seen those yet...
Phil
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:15 AM
Subject: RV10-List: 10 SB
I talked to Vans this morning about the SB. They referred me to the SB
that they say is being mailed this week. I asked if there was a PDF and
they indicated not. Perhaps someone on this list , upon receipt of the
SB, could send it to the list in PDF form.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 28
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Hmmm
What was the response....
Inquiring minds need to know.
..Les
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DLM
Sent: January-15-10 11:35 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I received a positive response to this email to Scott Risan this AM.
"I believe you would eliminate a lot of calls to technical support by
publishing the plans changes in PDF form. It would seem that Section 45A
will be common knowledge in about two weeks; why not publish as a PDF and
eliminate the calls to technical support looking for information. Also the
time of compliance is not very realistic; perhaps it should indicate
different times for flying and not flying aircraft, given that flying
aircraft have already been operating safely via other methods. In my case I
am the only pilot; I have lengthened Van's supplied pins to ensure complete
engagement of the metal door frames. My checklist calls for a manual feel of
the pins when engaged (twice) before takeoff."
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:16 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I think everyone is looking for the diagrams/picture of what the fix is.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
David,
If you're looking for the verbage of the SB, it's right here.
If you're looking for the plans revisions, I haven't seen those yet.
Phil
http://i47.tinypic.com/2gxpkdw.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/16hvx1t.jpg
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:15 AM
Subject: RV10-List: 10 SB
I talked to Vans this morning about the SB. They referred me to the SB that
they say is being mailed this week. I asked if there was a PDF and they
indicated not. Perhaps someone on this list , upon receipt of the SB, could
send it to the list in PDF form.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
Attached are photos of the new door safety latch, which I think are self explanatory.
It is my understanding that everyone with a finish kit will have their
parts and drawings by the end of next week. The only thing I would consider changing
is to increase the angle between the legs of the springs that you will
fabricate. My personal preference would be for a stronger spring loading of the
latch. I don't have a way to scan the large format drawings, but will try to
photograph them and get them posted later today.
Jim Berry
40482
N15JB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281668#281668
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0441_836.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0440_915.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0439_172.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0438_137.jpg
Message 30
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And the response was?
From: DLM
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:34 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I received a positive response to this email to Scott Risan this AM.
"I believe you would eliminate a lot of calls to technical support by
publishing the plans changes in PDF form. It would seem that Section 45A
will be common knowledge in about two weeks; why not publish as a PDF
and eliminate the calls to technical support looking for information.
Also the time of compliance is not very realistic; perhaps it should
indicate different times for flying and not flying aircraft, given that
flying aircraft have already been operating safely via other methods. In
my case I am the only pilot; I have lengthened Van's supplied pins to
ensure complete engagement of the metal door frames. My checklist calls
for a manual feel of the pins when engaged (twice) before takeoff."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:16 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I think everyone is looking for the diagrams/picture of what the fix is.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
David,
If you're looking for the verbage of the SB, it's right here.
If you're looking for the plans revisions, I haven't seen those yet.
Phil
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:15 AM
Subject: RV10-List: 10 SB
I talked to Vans this morning about the SB. They referred me to the SB
that they say is being mailed this week. I asked if there was a PDF and
they indicated not. Perhaps someone on this list , upon receipt of the
SB, could send it to the list in PDF form.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comht
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 31
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| Subject: | Photo's are in... Plans too.... |
Photo's are below and the plans are attached....
Phil
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
Thanks Jim,
NO pressure there was there?
--------
Cust. #40936
RV-10 SB Fuselage
N801VR reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281674#281674
Message 33
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David,
It appears that Scott took your advice. They were just posted on
vansairforce.net
http://www.vansairforce.net/delete_eventually/Section45A.pdf
bob
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DLM
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 1:35 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I received a positive response to this email to Scott Risan this AM.
"I believe you would eliminate a lot of calls to technical support by
publishing the plans changes in PDF form. It would seem that Section 45A
will be common knowledge in about two weeks; why not publish as a PDF and
eliminate the calls to technical support looking for information. Also the
time of compliance is not very realistic; perhaps it should indicate
different times for flying and not flying aircraft, given that flying
aircraft have already been operating safely via other methods. In my case I
am the only pilot; I have lengthened Van's supplied pins to ensure complete
engagement of the metal door frames. My checklist calls for a manual feel of
the pins when engaged (twice) before takeoff."
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:16 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I think everyone is looking for the diagrams/picture of what the fix is.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
David,
If you're looking for the verbage of the SB, it's right here.
If you're looking for the plans revisions, I haven't seen those yet.
Phil
http://i47.tinypic.com/2gxpkdw.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/16hvx1t.jpg
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:15 AM
Subject: RV10-List: 10 SB
I talked to Vans this morning about the SB. They referred me to the SB that
they say is being mailed this week. I asked if there was a PDF and they
indicated not. Perhaps someone on this list , upon receipt of the SB, could
send it to the list in PDF form.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 34
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|
The time of compliance is determined by the builder. SBs in the USA for
experimental aircraft are advisory only ; even certified aircraft are
required to comply with SBs only if used commercially. Neither Vans nor the
FAA have authority to require compliance prior to further flight. These are
not ADs; ADs apply to certified aircraft.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 11:56 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I wouldn't think that posting SB on a website wouldn't stand-up in court as
official notification. Meaning the clock hasn't started for compliance.
But once you get a physical copy of the SB in the mail, with the revised
plans, with the appropriate materials; that's a different story.
The smart ones are probably those who aren't replying to the thread. J
Cause they still don't know about the SB yet..
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 12:35 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I received a positive response to this email to Scott Risan this AM.
"I believe you would eliminate a lot of calls to technical support by
publishing the plans changes in PDF form. It would seem that Section 45A
will be common knowledge in about two weeks; why not publish as a PDF and
eliminate the calls to technical support looking for information. Also the
time of compliance is not very realistic; perhaps it should indicate
different times for flying and not flying aircraft, given that flying
aircraft have already been operating safely via other methods. In my case I
am the only pilot; I have lengthened Van's supplied pins to ensure complete
engagement of the metal door frames. My checklist calls for a manual feel of
the pins when engaged (twice) before takeoff."
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:16 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I think everyone is looking for the diagrams/picture of what the fix is.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
David,
If you're looking for the verbage of the SB, it's right here.
If you're looking for the plans revisions, I haven't seen those yet.
Phil
http://i47.tinypic.com/2gxpkdw.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/16hvx1t.jpg
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:15 AM
Subject: RV10-List: 10 SB
I talked to Vans this morning about the SB. They referred me to the SB that
they say is being mailed this week. I asked if there was a PDF and they
indicated not. Perhaps someone on this list , upon receipt of the SB, could
send it to the list in PDF form.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 35
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|
| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
Who's going to be the first vendor to make the door safety latch kit parts
available with various stylistic improvements!!! Come on you know that hook
looks so utilitarian... dare I say Dutch! ;-)
What about warning lights, switches, buzzers... oh my!!
Tounge in cheek of course.
-Ben Westfall
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
Attached are photos of the new door safety latch, which I think are self
explanatory. It is my understanding that everyone with a finish kit will
have their parts and drawings by the end of next week. The only thing I
would consider changing is to increase the angle between the legs of the
springs that you will fabricate. My personal preference would be for a
stronger spring loading of the latch. I don't have a way to scan the large
format drawings, but will try to photograph them and get them posted later
today.
Jim Berry
40482
N15JB
Message 36
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|
| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
When you are inside of the plane and want to open the door, how do you open the
latch? Do you grab the edge of it. What am I missing here? Oh ya and you are
on fire!
--------
Cust. #40936
RV-10 SB Fuselage
N801VR reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281682#281682
Message 37
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|
There is a major disagreement between EAA and FAA. FAA says ADs apply to al
l
aircraft/components they are issued for. If AD comes out on a Lycoming IO54
0
crankshaft, piston pin plugs, etc. it does apply to any aircraft that has
the exact engine called out, whether experimental or not, according to FAA.
Of course EAA disputes that, but we know FAA writes, interprets, enforces
and is judge jury and executioner. NTSB is a rubber stamp for the most part
.
Not disagreeing with your comments about Service Bulletins, just pointing
out that there are many opinions on applicability of ADs.
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 12:56 PM, DLM <dlm46007@cox.net> wrote:
> The time of compliance is determined by the builder. SBs in the USA for
> experimental aircraft are advisory only ; even certified aircraft are
> required to comply with SBs only if used commercially. Neither Vans nor t
he
> FAA have authority to require compliance prior to further flight. These a
re
> not ADs; ADs apply to certified aircraft.
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Perry, Phil
> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 11:56 AM
>
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
>
> I wouldn=92t think that posting SB on a website wouldn=92t stand-up in c
ourt
> as official notification. Meaning the clock hasn=92t started for complia
nce.
>
>
> But once you get a physical copy of the SB in the mail, with the revised
> plans, with the appropriate materials; that=92s a different story.
>
>
> The smart ones are probably those who aren=92t replying to the thread. J
> Cause they still don=92t know about the SB yet=85=85
>
>
> *From:* DLM [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net]
> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 12:35 PM
>
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
>
>
> I received a positive response to this email to Scott Risan this AM.
>
>
> "I believe you would eliminate a lot of calls to technical support by
> publishing the plans changes in PDF form. It would seem that Section 45A
> will be common knowledge in about two weeks; why not publish as a PDF and
> eliminate the calls to technical support looking for information. Also th
e
> time of compliance is not very realistic; perhaps it should indicate
> different times for flying and not flying aircraft, given that flying
> aircraft have already been operating safely via other methods. In my case
I
> am the only pilot; I have lengthened Van's supplied pins to ensure comple
te
> engagement of the metal door frames. My checklist calls for a manual feel
of
> the pins when engaged (twice) before takeoff."
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *RV Builder (Michael
> Sausen)
> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 10:16 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
>
> I think everyone is looking for the diagrams/picture of what the fix is.
>
>
> Michael
>
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Perry, Phil
> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 10:04 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
>
>
> David,
>
>
> If you=92re looking for the verbage of the SB, it=92s right here.
>
>
> If you=92re looking for the plans revisions, I haven=92t seen those yet
=85
>
>
> Phil
>
>
> [image: http://i47.tinypic.com/2gxpkdw.jpg]
>
>
> [image: http://i49.tinypic.com/16hvx1t.jpg]
>
>
> *From:* DLM [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net]
> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 9:15 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV10-List: 10 SB
>
>
> I talked to Vans this morning about the SB. They referred me to the SB th
at
> they say is being mailed this week. I asked if there was a PDF and they
> indicated not. Perhaps someone on this list , upon receipt of the SB, cou
ld
> send it to the list in PDF form.
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Photo's are in... Plans too.... |
Just thinking out loud [Question]
With a hole that big on the outside of the door, I wonder how much water you can
get inside the door after sitting in a good rain or flying in rain.
We work so hard at sealing the doors and now we put a big slot in it with a clear
path from outside to inside. [Shocked]
Let the examination begin [Mr. Green]
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
(N2GB Flying)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281685#281685
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
I for one would like something that would make that lever on the outside a little
more streamlined and less ugly. This should be fun with my already covered
doors. :P
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 1:57 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
Who's going to be the first vendor to make the door safety latch kit parts
available with various stylistic improvements!!! Come on you know that hook
looks so utilitarian... dare I say Dutch! ;-)
What about warning lights, switches, buzzers... oh my!!
Tounge in cheek of course.
-Ben Westfall
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
Attached are photos of the new door safety latch, which I think are self
explanatory. It is my understanding that everyone with a finish kit will
have their parts and drawings by the end of next week. The only thing I
would consider changing is to increase the angle between the legs of the
springs that you will fabricate. My personal preference would be for a
stronger spring loading of the latch. I don't have a way to scan the large
format drawings, but will try to photograph them and get them posted later
today.
Jim Berry
40482
N15JB
Message 40
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|
| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
I agree its double ugly!
Deems Davis
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
>
> I for one would like something that would make that lever on the outside a
little more streamlined and less ugly. This should be fun with my already covered
doors. :P
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall
> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 1:57 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
>
>
> Who's going to be the first vendor to make the door safety latch kit parts
> available with various stylistic improvements!!! Come on you know that hook
> looks so utilitarian... dare I say Dutch! ;-)
>
> What about warning lights, switches, buzzers... oh my!!
>
> Tounge in cheek of course.
>
> -Ben Westfall
> do not archive
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> Attached are photos of the new door safety latch, which I think are self
> explanatory. It is my understanding that everyone with a finish kit will
> have their parts and drawings by the end of next week. The only thing I
> would consider changing is to increase the angle between the legs of the
> springs that you will fabricate. My personal preference would be for a
> stronger spring loading of the latch. I don't have a way to scan the large
> format drawings, but will try to photograph them and get them posted later
> today.
>
> Jim Berry
> 40482
> N15JB
>
>
>
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
Hmmm
At least the Staniforth design had provision for opening on the interior. I
could see this getting jammed closed in the event of an accident - or at
least being very difficult to open.
What would really be nice would be the ability to open the door using the
main door handle and having this keep the door *slightly* ajar prior to an
off-field landing. On my Cherokee, part of the off field checklist is to
unlatch and unlock the door so it does not wedge shut in the event of an
accident.
Not knowing how tight this will hold the door, I am wondering if we are
trading on problem for another.
Cheers
Les
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Strasnuts
Sent: January-15-10 1:12 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
When you are inside of the plane and want to open the door, how do you open
the latch? Do you grab the edge of it. What am I missing here? Oh ya and
you are on fire!
--------
Cust. #40936
RV-10 SB Fuselage
N801VR reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281682#281682
Message 42
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|
| Subject: | Re: Photo's are in... Plans too.... |
I was already thinking about that too. Maybe wrapping a piece of weather stripping
around the inside would help without adding too much resistance. The spring
looks a bit wimpy though and any resistance might stop it. Pure speculation
here of course. :)
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of orchidman
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 2:36 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Photo's are in... Plans too....
Just thinking out loud [Question]
With a hole that big on the outside of the door, I wonder how much water you can
get inside the door after sitting in a good rain or flying in rain.
We work so hard at sealing the doors and now we put a big slot in it with a clear
path from outside to inside. [Shocked]
Let the examination begin [Mr. Green]
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
(N2GB Flying)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281685#281685
Message 43
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|
| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
my thoughts exactly!
Pascal
--------------------------------------------------
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 12:48 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
> <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
>
> I for one would like something that would make that lever on the outside
> a little more streamlined and less ugly. This should be fun with my
> already covered doors. :P
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall
> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 1:57 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
>
>
> Who's going to be the first vendor to make the door safety latch kit parts
> available with various stylistic improvements!!! Come on you know that
> hook
> looks so utilitarian... dare I say Dutch! ;-)
>
> What about warning lights, switches, buzzers... oh my!!
>
> Tounge in cheek of course.
>
> -Ben Westfall
> do not archive
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> Attached are photos of the new door safety latch, which I think are self
> explanatory. It is my understanding that everyone with a finish kit will
> have their parts and drawings by the end of next week. The only thing I
> would consider changing is to increase the angle between the legs of the
> springs that you will fabricate. My personal preference would be for a
> stronger spring loading of the latch. I don't have a way to scan the large
> format drawings, but will try to photograph them and get them posted later
> today.
>
> Jim Berry
> 40482
> N15JB
>
>
>
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
But Deems,
Your -10 is way too pretty anyway.
I will duck for cover now...
Les
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: January-15-10 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
I agree its double ugly!
Deems Davis
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
> --> <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
>
> I for one would like something that would make that lever on the
> outside a little more streamlined and less ugly. This should be fun
> with my already covered doors. :P
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben
> Westfall
> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 1:57 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
>
>
> Who's going to be the first vendor to make the door safety latch kit
> parts available with various stylistic improvements!!! Come on you
> know that hook looks so utilitarian... dare I say Dutch! ;-)
>
> What about warning lights, switches, buzzers... oh my!!
>
> Tounge in cheek of course.
>
> -Ben Westfall
> do not archive
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> Attached are photos of the new door safety latch, which I think are
> self explanatory. It is my understanding that everyone with a finish
> kit will have their parts and drawings by the end of next week. The
> only thing I would consider changing is to increase the angle between
> the legs of the springs that you will fabricate. My personal
> preference would be for a stronger spring loading of the latch. I
> don't have a way to scan the large format drawings, but will try to
> photograph them and get them posted later today.
>
> Jim Berry
> 40482
> N15JB
>
>
>
Message 45
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|
| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
What about attaching a 'grab strap' to the inside door catch? It would
serve for both opening and closing the doors from the inside?
Deems Davis
N519PJ
www.deemsrv10.com
Les Kearney wrote:
>
> Hmmm
>
> At least the Staniforth design had provision for opening on the interior. I
> could see this getting jammed closed in the event of an accident - or at
> least being very difficult to open.
>
> What would really be nice would be the ability to open the door using the
> main door handle and having this keep the door *slightly* ajar prior to an
> off-field landing. On my Cherokee, part of the off field checklist is to
> unlatch and unlock the door so it does not wedge shut in the event of an
> accident.
>
> Not knowing how tight this will hold the door, I am wondering if we are
> trading on problem for another.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
> Do Not Archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Strasnuts
> Sent: January-15-10 1:12 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
>
>
> When you are inside of the plane and want to open the door, how do you open
> the latch? Do you grab the edge of it. What am I missing here? Oh ya and
> you are on fire!
>
> --------
> Cust. #40936
> RV-10 SB Fuselage
> N801VR reserved
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281682#281682
>
>
>
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
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Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: Photo's are in... Plans too.... |
I'm not too worried. An inventive -10 builder is going to come up with a
mechanism to tie the safety latch to the existing door handle. Until
then, i think a zip tie would look more aesthetically pleasing.
Jae
First order for Skyview parts in.
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
>
> I was already thinking about that too. Maybe wrapping a piece of weather stripping
around the inside would help without adding too much resistance. The
spring looks a bit wimpy though and any resistance might stop it. Pure speculation
here of course. :)
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of orchidman
> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 2:36 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Photo's are in... Plans too....
>
>
> Just thinking out loud [Question]
> With a hole that big on the outside of the door, I wonder how much water you
can get inside the door after sitting in a good rain or flying in rain.
> We work so hard at sealing the doors and now we put a big slot in it with a clear
path from outside to inside. [Shocked]
> Let the examination begin [Mr. Green]
>
> --------
> Gary Blankenbiller
> RV10 - # 40674
> (N2GB Flying)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281685#281685
>
>
>
Message 48
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|
agreed: if the data plate still indicates a certified Lycoming as mine does.
Certified parts to remain certified must comply with ADs.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: 10 SB
There is a major disagreement between EAA and FAA. FAA says ADs apply to all
aircraft/components they are issued for. If AD comes out on a Lycoming IO540
crankshaft, piston pin plugs, etc. it does apply to any aircraft that has
the exact engine called out, whether experimental or not, according to FAA.
Of course EAA disputes that, but we know FAA writes, interprets, enforces
and is judge jury and executioner. NTSB is a rubber stamp for the most part.
Not disagreeing with your comments about Service Bulletins, just pointing
out that there are many opinions on applicability of ADs.
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 12:56 PM, DLM <dlm46007@cox.net> wrote:
The time of compliance is determined by the builder. SBs in the USA for
experimental aircraft are advisory only ; even certified aircraft are
required to comply with SBs only if used commercially. Neither Vans nor the
FAA have authority to require compliance prior to further flight. These are
not ADs; ADs apply to certified aircraft.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 11:56 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I wouldn't think that posting SB on a website wouldn't stand-up in court as
official notification. Meaning the clock hasn't started for compliance.
But once you get a physical copy of the SB in the mail, with the revised
plans, with the appropriate materials; that's a different story.
The smart ones are probably those who aren't replying to the thread. J
Cause they still don't know about the SB yet..
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 12:35 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I received a positive response to this email to Scott Risan this AM.
"I believe you would eliminate a lot of calls to technical support by
publishing the plans changes in PDF form. It would seem that Section 45A
will be common knowledge in about two weeks; why not publish as a PDF and
eliminate the calls to technical support looking for information. Also the
time of compliance is not very realistic; perhaps it should indicate
different times for flying and not flying aircraft, given that flying
aircraft have already been operating safely via other methods. In my case I
am the only pilot; I have lengthened Van's supplied pins to ensure complete
engagement of the metal door frames. My checklist calls for a manual feel of
the pins when engaged (twice) before takeoff."
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:16 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I think everyone is looking for the diagrams/picture of what the fix is.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
David,
If you're looking for the verbage of the SB, it's right here.
If you're looking for the plans revisions, I haven't seen those yet.
Phil
http://i47.tinypic.com/2gxpkdw.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/16hvx1t.jpg
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:15 AM
Subject: RV10-List: 10 SB
I talked to Vans this morning about the SB. They referred me to the SB that
they say is being mailed this week. I asked if there was a PDF and they
indicated not. Perhaps someone on this list , upon receipt of the SB, could
send it to the list in PDF form.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
http://www.glenrowanrestaurant.co.uk/loch_ness_monster.jpg
I saw this scottish influence personally. Anybody else see the
resemblance? I'm going to call it the Nessie Latch.
Jae
40533
Perry, Phil wrote:
>
> I'm thinking of playing games with the color scheme. (Aka: alodine
> every other layer. Or alodine one layer darker than the other.)
>
> Or even anodizing with a color that complements the interior.
>
> I'm sure we'll have some machined versions soon though.
>
> Phil
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Fri Jan 15 12:57:17 2010
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
>
>
> I agree its double ugly!
>
> Deems Davis
>
> RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
> <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
> >
> > I for one would like something that would make that lever on the
> outside a little more streamlined and less ugly. This should be fun
> with my already covered doors. :P
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall
> > Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 1:57 PM
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
> >
> >
> > Who's going to be the first vendor to make the door safety latch kit
> parts
> > available with various stylistic improvements!!! Come on you know
> that hook
> > looks so utilitarian... dare I say Dutch! ;-)
> >
> > What about warning lights, switches, buzzers... oh my!!
> >
> > Tounge in cheek of course.
> >
> > -Ben Westfall
> > do not archive
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> > Attached are photos of the new door safety latch, which I think are self
> > explanatory. It is my understanding that everyone with a finish kit will
> > have their parts and drawings by the end of next week. The only thing I
> > would consider changing is to increase the angle between the legs of the
> > springs that you will fabricate. My personal preference would be for a
> > stronger spring loading of the latch. I don't have a way to scan the
> large
> > format drawings, but will try to photograph them and get them posted
> later
> > today.
> >
> > Jim Berry
> > 40482
> > N15JB
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ~,gM4Gqz.'8E]t.+-fZ+`axr^jzZ(j|n)b'!j'+ry'C
> {
> ,x(ZP!jrrj|-&j',r5hum 'ojj+E]t.+-08IaT1
> jgrz{Zi^&lZ+ky+k&j',r+k&j',rhB{ky.+jY^.+-i0fr((nbxm-&j',rr&*''k{w/tml
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: electric aileron trim |
Well, I was aware of that rather nifty item. I'd need two
(aileron/rudder trim) so that's $100 + shipping + servos ($28).
I used a Stamp Computer (http://tinyurl.com/yjrv4kg) $54, and the two
servos $28 + shipping and wrote the program (simple basic language). I
have 10 more I/O ports left to do whatever strikes my fancy. I could
use some of the ports to control dimmers, or discrete flap settings or
........
Linn
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
>
> If you want to save time on the controller, for a cost, Eric at Perihelion Designs
has a nice little unit called the EGPNMSC.
>
> http://www.periheliondesign.com/moreproducts.htm
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:24 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: electric aileron trim
>
>
> I'd be interested in 'real life' info too. I had a discussion with a
> friend with extensive autopilot experience, and his comment was that if
> the aircraft was out of trim, the autopilot 'flew funny'. I'm guessing
> it's because the autopilots he was flying behind had rate gyros, not
> solid state ones so prevalent now. Since I was already going to install
> the model airplane servos and designed the PWM module, adding the
> aileron trim was real easy. I've never had actrive trim on anything
> I've flown, so this is new ground for me.
> Linn
>
>
> Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>
>> I question the need for both aileron trim and autopilot. The
>> autopilot should be able to handle the minor imbalances. While a trim
>> tab could reduce loads on the autopilot, it seems like unneeded extra
>> complexity. I'd be interested in hearing from flying -10s whether
>> they have and actually use both systems. I could see one or the
>> other, but both would appear to be overkill.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:25 AM, orchidman <gary@wingscc.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> jrlark wrote:
>>>> As I have already fabricated a rudder trim tab system very
>>>> similar to Brian Steeves, I'm wondering if the aileron system
>>>> could also be fabricated in house, as opposed to buying the Vans
>>>> kit?
>>>>
>>> In my opinion, you need both. Vans aileron trim works and unless
>>> you want to spend a bunch of time designing and making your own,
>>> Vans is simple to build and install.
>>>
>>> -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 (N2GB Flying)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281590#281590
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
I find it rather ludicrous to build an efficient airplane only to hang
the handle and a speed brake on the outside of the door. IMHO, it's a
poor solution at best.
Linn
Jim Berry wrote:
>
> Attached are photos of the new door safety latch, which I think are self explanatory.
It is my understanding that everyone with a finish kit will have their
parts and drawings by the end of next week. The only thing I would consider
changing is to increase the angle between the legs of the springs that you will
fabricate. My personal preference would be for a stronger spring loading of
the latch. I don't have a way to scan the large format drawings, but will try
to photograph them and get them posted later today.
>
> Jim Berry
> 40482
> N15JB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281668#281668
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0441_836.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0440_915.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0439_172.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0438_137.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 52
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|
| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
(I posted this at VAF, I also am not very impressed)
I am going to have to think about this SB before installing.
It would have been nice to talk with the whole community of RV-10
builders before launching this SB. I do not feel it is necessary and is
just an extra device that if not installed properly will not function
correctly I would suspect. If you drive to root cause on the door issue
it comes down to people not installing the warning lights, and not
properly completing their pre-flight.
I don't want to offend anyone that has had their door come off but I
have heard many stories about the doors that have come off, especially
the one that hit the horizontal stabilizer and there were many other
factors involved with that incident. Most of them will admit that the
door was never fully closed before taking off. All of them should have
been prevented through proper preflight and checklists.
If the current system is installed correctly, the indicator lights
installed, it is very unlikely and almost impossible to have a problem.
The only way for the door to open is if you squeezed the interlock on
the handle and opened the door. I know there are many RV-10's flying
around with no indicator lights on the doors and I don't understand
why. They work so great. On my doors if the pin moves 1/8" away from
fully closed the lights come on.
My preflight includes the following:
-Confirm door handle has locked into place
-Check all four corners for any obvious gap
-Check door ajar light
-Before takeoff, check all warning lights (includes the door ajar light)
If the proximity sensors are installed correctly it is IMPOSSIBLE not
to have each of the four pins in their proper spot. If one is caught
outside the cabin (which has happened to me when passengers try to shut
the door before I get there) the light is on and there is an obvious
gap.
Another concern I read about is the handle not locking into place. If
yours does not, take it apart and fix it. Once mine snaps into place it
will not rotate and is very safe.
I may find that this is a great addition after I have played with
someones door that has this new addition but I won't be adding this to
my experimental plane anytime soon. I worry about emergencies and
having someone on the outside who is trying to get me and my family out
try to understand that you have to lift the little handle, push the
button and rotate the handle.
I agree that the door can be improved but this is a very poor band-aid.
I don't want to get flamed here, I just want new builders to understand
that the doors are not unsafe and if installed correctly with the
warning lights and properly locking handles they are safe. New builders
have this perception that the doors need a 100% redesign, and I don't
want anyone to be scared off.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
________________________________
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Fri, January 15, 2010 3:01:38 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
I find it rather ludicrous to build an efficient airplane only to hang the handle
and a speed brake on the outside of the door. IMHO, it's a poor solution at
best.
Linn
Jim Berry wrote:
>
> Attached are photos of the new door safety latch, which I think are self explanatory.
It is my understanding that everyone with a finish kit will have their
parts and drawings by the end of next week. The only thing I would consider
changing is to increase the angle between the legs of the springs that you will
fabricate. My personal preference would be for a stronger spring loading of
the latch. I don't have a way to scan the large format drawings, but will try
to photograph them and get them posted later today.
>
> Jim Berry
> 40482
> N15JB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281668#281668
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0441_836.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0440_915.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0439_172.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0438_137.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 53
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
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|
| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
My spy inside Van's just send me the revision for the SB come out yesterday
,will looking more efficient then the parachute of the outside lever of the
previews SB=0AAny way I thinks I will adop this one=0AHugo --- =0A=0A=0AOn
Fri, 1/15/10, Linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net> wrote:=0A=0A> From:
Linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>=0A> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: D
oor safety latch=0A> To: rv10-list@matronics.com=0A> Date: Friday, January
tts_pilot@bellsouth.net>=0A> =0A> I find it rather ludicrous to build an ef
ficient airplane=0A> only to hang the handle and a speed brake on the outsi
de of=0A> the door.- IMHO, it's a poor solution at best.=0A> Linn=0A> =0A
erry@qwest.net>=0A> > =0A> > Attached are photos of the new door safety lat
ch,=0A> which I think are self explanatory. It is my understanding=0A> that
everyone with a finish kit will have their parts and=0A> drawings by the e
nd of next week. The only thing I would=0A> consider changing is to increas
e the angle between the legs=0A> of the springs that you will fabricate. My
personal=0A> preference would be for a stronger spring loading of the=0A>
latch. I don't have a way to scan the large format drawings,=0A> but will t
ry to photograph them and get them posted later=0A> today.=0A> > =0A> > Jim
Berry=0A> > 40482=0A> > N15JB=0A> > =0A> > =0A> > =0A> > =0A> > Read this
topic online here:=0A> > =0A> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p
=281668#281668=0A> > =0A> > =0A> > =0A> > =0A> > Attachments: =0A> > http
://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0441_836.jpg=0A> > http://forums.matroni
cs.com//files/img_0440_915.jpg=0A> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img
_0439_172.jpg=0A> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0438_137.jpg=0A>
=========================0A
- - - - - - - -=0A> - - - - - - - -Matt=0A> D
===============0A> =0A> =0A> =0A>
Message 54
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| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
Fortunately the "mandatory " nature of this does not apply nor does the
compliance timeframe. undoubtedly there will be builders who will offer the
obligatory "yes sir three bags full" but this should be considered for each
particular situation and aircraft. After all, the beauty of this is that the
builder is the manufacturer. You did specify that you or your organization
was the manufacturer on the airworthiness forms.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
(I posted this at VAF, I also am not very impressed)
I am going to have to think about this SB before installing.
It would have been nice to talk with the whole community of RV-10 builders
before launching this SB. I do not feel it is necessary and is just an extra
device that if not installed properly will not function correctly I would
suspect. If you drive to root cause on the door issue it comes down to
people not installing the warning lights, and not properly completing their
pre-flight.
I don't want to offend anyone that has had their door come off but I have
heard many stories about the doors that have come off, especially the one
that hit the horizontal stabilizer and there were many other factors
involved with that incident. Most of them will admit that the door was never
fully closed before taking off. All of them should have been prevented
through proper preflight and checklists.
If the current system is installed correctly, the indicator lights
installed, it is very unlikely and almost impossible to have a problem. The
only way for the door to open is if you squeezed the interlock on the handle
and opened the door. I know there are many RV-10's flying around with no
indicator lights on the doors and I don't understand why. They work so
great. On my doors if the pin moves 1/8" away from fully closed the lights
come on.
My preflight includes the following:
-Confirm door handle has locked into place
-Check all four corners for any obvious gap
-Check door ajar light
-Before takeoff, check all warning lights (includes the door ajar light)
If the proximity sensors are installed correctly it is IMPOSSIBLE not to
have each of the four pins in their proper spot. If one is caught outside
the cabin (which has happened to me when passengers try to shut the door
before I get there) the light is on and there is an obvious gap.
Another concern I read about is the handle not locking into place. If yours
does not, take it apart and fix it. Once mine snaps into place it will not
rotate and is very safe.
I may find that this is a great addition after I have played with someones
door that has this new addition but I won't be adding this to my
experimental plane anytime soon. I worry about emergencies and having
someone on the outside who is trying to get me and my family out try to
understand that you have to lift the little handle, push the button and
rotate the handle.
I agree that the door can be improved but this is a very poor band-aid. I
don't want to get flamed here, I just want new builders to understand that
the doors are not unsafe and if installed correctly with the warning lights
and properly locking handles they are safe. New builders have this
perception that the doors need a 100% redesign, and I don't want anyone to
be scared off.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
_____
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Fri, January 15, 2010 3:01:38 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
I find it rather ludicrous to build an efficient airplane only to hang the
handle and a speed brake on the outside of the door. IMHO, it's a poor
solution at best.
Linn
Jim Berry wrote:
>
> Attached are photos of the new door safety latch, which I think are self
explanatory. It is my understanding that everyone with a finish kit will
have their parts and drawings by the end of next week. The only thing I
would consider changing is to increase the angle between the legs of the
springs that you will fabricate. My personal preference would be for a
stronger spring loading of the latch. I don't have a way to scan the large
format drawings, but will try to photograph them and get them posted later
today.
>
> Jim Berry
> 40482
> N15JB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281668#281668
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0441_836.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0440_915.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0439_172.jpg
>
Message 55
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| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
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IA0KDQoNCg=
Message 56
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| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
I'm with Scott on this one. I spent a lot of time on my latchs so that the
pins go thru an after market Metal block and then at least 1/2" thru the fr
ame on both sides of the doors.
The doors would have to REALLY flex before these rods would pull out. Besi
des=2C that is one "fuggly" looking exterior latch! :-)
From: scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
(I posted this at VAF=2C I also am not very impressed)
I am going to have to think about this SB before installing.
It would have been nice to talk with the whole community of RV-10
builders before launching this SB. I do not feel it is necessary and is
just an extra device that if not installed properly will not function
correctly I would suspect. If you drive to root cause on the door issue
it comes down to people not installing the warning lights=2C and not
properly completing their pre-flight.
I don't want to offend anyone that has had their door come off but I
have heard many stories about the doors that have come off=2C especially
the one that hit the horizontal stabilizer and there were many other
factors involved with that incident. Most of them will admit that the
door was never fully closed before taking off. All of them should have
been prevented through proper preflight and checklists.
If the current system is installed correctly=2C the indicator lights
installed=2C it is very unlikely and almost impossible to have a problem.
The only way for the door to open is if you squeezed the interlock on
the handle and opened the door. I know there are many RV-10's flying
around with no indicator lights on the doors and I don't understand
why. They work so great. On my doors if the pin moves 1/8" away from
fully closed the lights come on.
My preflight includes the following:
-Confirm door handle has locked into place
-Check all four corners for any obvious gap
-Check door ajar light
-Before takeoff=2C check all warning lights (includes the door ajar light)
If the proximity sensors are installed correctly it is IMPOSSIBLE not
to have each of the four pins in their proper spot. If one is caught
outside the cabin (which has happened to me when passengers try to shut
the door before I get there) the light is on and there is an obvious
gap.
Another concern I read about is the handle not locking into place. If
yours does not=2C take it apart and fix it. Once mine snaps into place it
will not rotate and is very safe.
I may find that this is a great addition after I have played with
someones door that has this new addition but I won't be adding this to
my experimental plane anytime soon. I worry about emergencies and
having someone on the outside who is trying to get me and my family out
try to understand that you have to lift the little handle=2C push the
button and rotate the handle.
I agree that the door can be improved but this is a very poor band-aid.
I don't want to get flamed here=2C I just want new builders to understand
that the doors are not unsafe and if installed correctly with the
warning lights and properly locking handles they are safe. New builders
have this perception that the doors need a 100% redesign=2C and I don't
want anyone to be scared off. Scott Schmidtscottmschmidt@yahoo.com
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Fri=2C January 15=2C 2010 3:01:38 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Door safety
latch
I find it rather ludicrous to build an efficient airplane only to hang the
handle and a speed brake on the outside of the door. IMHO=2C it's a poor s
olution at best.
Linn
Jim Berry wrote:
>
> Attached are photos of the new door safety latch=2C which I think are sel
f explanatory. It is my understanding that everyone with a finish kit will
have their parts and drawings by the end of next week. The only thing I wou
ld consider changing is to increase the angle between the legs of the sprin
gs that you will fabricate. My personal preference would be for a stronger
spring loading of the latch. I don't
have a way to scan the large format drawings=2C but will try to photograph
them and get them posted later today.
>
> Jim Berry
> 40482
> N15JB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281668#281668
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0441_836.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0440_915.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0439_172.jpg
>
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft=92s powerful SPAM protection.
Message 57
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|
| Subject: | Re: electric aileron trim |
All valid points, except that aileron trim is no where near as important
as elevator trim. The examples you cite are all for elevator trim. I've
heard the message from Tim and others that aileron trim is worthwhile.
Some autopilots have aileron trim function built in. My Mooney has a
knob on the turn coordinator that I just dial what gives a no turn,
wings level position, and that is a crude Brittain wing leveler from the
'60s.
Albert Gardner wrote:
>
> I believe you need the aileron trim with an autopilot. I have a TruTrak but
> you need to trim the aircraft before engaging the autopilot for two reasons.
> When you disengage the aqutopilot an out-of-trim condition will cause abrupt
> aircraft movement especially in pitch. Second, again especially in pitch,
> the autopilot may "slip" if the out-of-trim condition is too strong. That
> built-in slippage is what let's you overpower a runaway autopilot.
> Albert Gardner
> N991RV
> Yuma, AZ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 8:24 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: electric aileron trim
>
>
> I'd be interested in 'real life' info too. I had a discussion with a
> friend with extensive autopilot experience, and his comment was that if
> the aircraft was out of trim, the autopilot 'flew funny'. I'm guessing
> it's because the autopilots he was flying behind had rate gyros, not
> solid state ones so prevalent now. Since I was already going to install
> the model airplane servos and designed the PWM module, adding the
> aileron trim was real easy. I've never had actrive trim on anything
> I've flown, so this is new ground for me.
> Linn
>
>
> Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
>>
>> I question the need for both aileron trim and autopilot. The
>> autopilot should be able to handle the minor imbalances. While a trim
>> tab could reduce loads on the autopilot, it seems like unneeded extra
>> complexity. I'd be interested in hearing from flying -10s whether
>> they have and actually use both systems. I could see one or the
>> other, but both would appear to be overkill.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:25 AM, orchidman <gary@wingscc.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> jrlark wrote:
>>>
>>>> As I have already fabricated a rudder trim tab system very
>>>> similar to Brian Steeves, I'm wondering if the aileron system
>>>> could also be fabricated in house, as opposed to buying the Vans
>>>> kit?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> In my opinion, you need both. Vans aileron trim works and unless
>>> you want to spend a bunch of time designing and making your own,
>>> Vans is simple to build and install.
>>>
>>> -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 (N2GB Flying)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281590#281590
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 58
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| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
Deems that's a great idea.
John G. Cumins
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
What about attaching a 'grab strap' to the inside door catch? It would
serve for both opening and closing the doors from the inside?
Deems Davis
N519PJ
www.deemsrv10.com
Les Kearney wrote:
>
> Hmmm
>
> At least the Staniforth design had provision for opening on the interior.
I
> could see this getting jammed closed in the event of an accident - or at
> least being very difficult to open.
>
> What would really be nice would be the ability to open the door using the
> main door handle and having this keep the door *slightly* ajar prior to an
> off-field landing. On my Cherokee, part of the off field checklist is to
> unlatch and unlock the door so it does not wedge shut in the event of an
> accident.
>
> Not knowing how tight this will hold the door, I am wondering if we are
> trading on problem for another.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
> Do Not Archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Strasnuts
> Sent: January-15-10 1:12 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
>
>
> When you are inside of the plane and want to open the door, how do you
open
> the latch? Do you grab the edge of it. What am I missing here? Oh ya
and
> you are on fire!
>
> --------
> Cust. #40936
> RV-10 SB Fuselage
> N801VR reserved
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281682#281682
>
>
Message 59
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|
| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
Scott;
I have to admit I've been thinking about this SB as well. I was actually
waiting for Tim to chime in and was quite glad to see your response.
Thanks for taking time to give that feedback.
Pascal
From: Scott Schmidt
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
(I posted this at VAF, I also am not very impressed)
I am going to have to think about this SB before installing.
It would have been nice to talk with the whole community of RV-10
builders before launching this SB. I do not feel it is necessary and is
just an extra device that if not installed properly will not function
correctly I would suspect. If you drive to root cause on the door issue
it comes down to people not installing the warning lights, and not
properly completing their pre-flight.
I don't want to offend anyone that has had their door come off but I
have heard many stories about the doors that have come off, especially
the one that hit the horizontal stabilizer and there were many other
factors involved with that incident. Most of them will admit that the
door was never fully closed before taking off. All of them should have
been prevented through proper preflight and checklists.
If the current system is installed correctly, the indicator lights
installed, it is very unlikely and almost impossible to have a problem.
The only way for the door to open is if you squeezed the interlock on
the handle and opened the door. I know there are many RV-10's flying
around with no indicator lights on the doors and I don't understand why.
They work so great. On my doors if the pin moves 1/8" away from fully
closed the lights come on.
My preflight includes the following:
-Confirm door handle has locked into place
-Check all four corners for any obvious gap
-Check door ajar light
-Before takeoff, check all warning lights (includes the door ajar light)
If the proximity sensors are installed correctly it is IMPOSSIBLE not to
have each of the four pins in their proper spot. If one is caught
outside the cabin (which has happened to me when passengers try to shut
the door before I get there) the light is on and there is an obvious
gap.
Another concern I read about is the handle not locking into place. If
yours does not, take it apart and fix it. Once mine snaps into place it
will not rotate and is very safe.
I may find that this is a great addition after I have played with
someones door that has this new addition but I won't be adding this to
my experimental plane anytime soon. I worry about emergencies and having
someone on the outside who is trying to get me and my family out try to
understand that you have to lift the little handle, push the button and
rotate the handle.
I agree that the door can be improved but this is a very poor band-aid.
I don't want to get flamed here, I just want new builders to understand
that the doors are not unsafe and if installed correctly with the
warning lights and properly locking handles they are safe. New builders
have this perception that the doors need a 100% redesign, and I don't
want anyone to be scared off.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Fri, January 15, 2010 3:01:38 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
<pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
I find it rather ludicrous to build an efficient airplane only to hang
the handle and a speed brake on the outside of the door. IMHO, it's a
poor solution at best.
Linn
Jim Berry wrote:
>
> Attached are photos of the new door safety latch, which I think are
self explanatory. It is my understanding that everyone with a finish kit
will have their parts and drawings by the end of next week. The only
thing I would consider changing is to increase the angle between the
legs of the springs that you will fabricate. My personal preference
would be for a stronger spring loading of the latch. I don't have a way
to scan the large format drawings, but will try to photograph them and
get them posted later today.
>
> Jim Berry
> 40482
> N15JB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281668#281668
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0441_836.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0440_915.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0439_172.jpg
>
Message 60
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|
| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
Beings I dont have an outside passenger door handle anyway..............
guess I will not have an outside safety latch on the passenger door eith
er.
Let's get creative with the looks of the outside latch...............thi
nk I will make it look like the arm on a Vegas slot machine. Every time
you pull it down to get in you are taking a gamble OR by getting in and
flyng the RV10 you have hit the Jackpot of all 4 place planes!
Dean
805HL "400 Hours with a goal of 500 by 2011"
____________________________________________________________
Weight Loss Program
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Jz0315TiJGQRTntSFamdGWtMAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEUgAA
AAA
Message 61
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|
My engine is experimental, simply because I have Eci cylinders. Eci
cylinders have a revised FAA AD on them which leads me to believe
regardless of if it's certified or not I think one is still required to
make the changes per the AD.
P
From: DLM
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 1:31 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
agreed: if the data plate still indicates a certified Lycoming as mine
does. Certified parts to remain certified must comply with ADs.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
McMullen
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: 10 SB
There is a major disagreement between EAA and FAA. FAA says ADs apply to
all aircraft/components they are issued for. If AD comes out on a
Lycoming IO540 crankshaft, piston pin plugs, etc. it does apply to any
aircraft that has the exact engine called out, whether experimental or
not, according to FAA. Of course EAA disputes that, but we know FAA
writes, interprets, enforces and is judge jury and executioner. NTSB is
a rubber stamp for the most part. Not disagreeing with your comments
about Service Bulletins, just pointing out that there are many opinions
on applicability of ADs.
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 12:56 PM, DLM <dlm46007@cox.net> wrote:
The time of compliance is determined by the builder. SBs in the USA
for experimental aircraft are advisory only ; even certified aircraft
are required to comply with SBs only if used commercially. Neither Vans
nor the FAA have authority to require compliance prior to further
flight. These are not ADs; ADs apply to certified aircraft.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 11:56 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I wouldn't think that posting SB on a website wouldn't stand-up in
court as official notification. Meaning the clock hasn't started for
compliance.
But once you get a physical copy of the SB in the mail, with the
revised plans, with the appropriate materials; that's a different story.
The smart ones are probably those who aren't replying to the thread.
J Cause they still don't know about the SB yet..
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 12:35 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I received a positive response to this email to Scott Risan this AM.
"I believe you would eliminate a lot of calls to technical support by
publishing the plans changes in PDF form. It would seem that Section 45A
will be common knowledge in about two weeks; why not publish as a PDF
and eliminate the calls to technical support looking for information.
Also the time of compliance is not very realistic; perhaps it should
indicate different times for flying and not flying aircraft, given that
flying aircraft have already been operating safely via other methods. In
my case I am the only pilot; I have lengthened Van's supplied pins to
ensure complete engagement of the metal door frames. My checklist calls
for a manual feel of the pins when engaged (twice) before takeoff."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:16 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I think everyone is looking for the diagrams/picture of what the fix
is.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:04 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
David,
If you're looking for the verbage of the SB, it's right here.
If you're looking for the plans revisions, I haven't seen those yet.
Phil
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:15 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: 10 SB
I talked to Vans this morning about the SB. They referred me to the SB
that they say is being mailed this week. I asked if there was a PDF and
they indicated not. Perhaps someone on this list , upon receipt of the
SB, could send it to the list in PDF form.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comht
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 62
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| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
I fully agree with Scott and his post. I would add to the reasons the
doors may be opening is poor construction and/or amending the door pin m
easurements to make the pins not protrude out so far and scratch the pai
nt when shut accidently. Look at some of the GAPS in these doors on som
e finished planes and the way the door seal is attached.
These planes are not aerobatic either. Doors made per the plans and flo
wn per the specs will not accidently come open during flight. I am sure
LIABILITY is driving this SB and I am also sure the RV community will e
ngineer a much better fix (if needed) than what is proposed.
My 2 cents to a senseless issue.
DEAN
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Message 63
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| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
The beauty of being experimental is that we can each decide whether we want to
install the safety latch; although your insurance company might disagree if you
had a door opening incident.
Deems idea of a grab strap would be very easy to incorporate. Since the latch kit
includes an aluminum sheet on both sides of the fiberglass, it would make a
good hard point to mount a handle.
When the door handle is opened, the latch allows the bottom of the door to open
approximately 1/2 to 3/4 inch.
Someone commented that the latch cannot be opened from the inside. Not true, just
lift the latch.
The exterior latch is 1/8 inch thick, and requires very little force to open. It
could probably be smallified top to bottom without compromising strength or
function.
Someone with CNC capabilities could make a much more attractive version of the
latch.
Jim Berry
40482
N15JB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281733#281733
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| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
There is no way I'm putting that piece of Frankenstein crap on my aircraft.
Jeeez.WTF is Van's thinking except putting this out to cover their ass. I
think a bungee cord between the two door handles inside would work much
better. Sorry but I'll check the lights, check the doors and continue on. So
far my policy and procedures have worked fine and have proven that too!!
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DLM
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 2:53 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
Fortunately the "mandatory " nature of this does not apply nor does the
compliance timeframe. undoubtedly there will be builders who will offer the
obligatory "yes sir three bags full" but this should be considered for each
particular situation and aircraft. After all, the beauty of this is that the
builder is the manufacturer. You did specify that you or your organization
was the manufacturer on the airworthiness forms.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
(I posted this at VAF, I also am not very impressed)
I am going to have to think about this SB before installing.
It would have been nice to talk with the whole community of RV-10 builders
before launching this SB. I do not feel it is necessary and is just an extra
device that if not installed properly will not function correctly I would
suspect. If you drive to root cause on the door issue it comes down to
people not installing the warning lights, and not properly completing their
pre-flight.
I don't want to offend anyone that has had their door come off but I have
heard many stories about the doors that have come off, especially the one
that hit the horizontal stabilizer and there were many other factors
involved with that incident. Most of them will admit that the door was never
fully closed before taking off. All of them should have been prevented
through proper preflight and checklists.
If the current system is installed correctly, the indicator lights
installed, it is very unlikely and almost impossible to have a problem. The
only way for the door to open is if you squeezed the interlock on the handle
and opened the door. I know there are many RV-10's flying around with no
indicator lights on the doors and I don't understand why. They work so
great. On my doors if the pin moves 1/8" away from fully closed the lights
come on.
My preflight includes the following:
-Confirm door handle has locked into place
-Check all four corners for any obvious gap
-Check door ajar light
-Before takeoff, check all warning lights (includes the door ajar light)
If the proximity sensors are installed correctly it is IMPOSSIBLE not to
have each of the four pins in their proper spot. If one is caught outside
the cabin (which has happened to me when passengers try to shut the door
before I get there) the light is on and there is an obvious gap.
Another concern I read about is the handle not locking into place. If yours
does not, take it apart and fix it. Once mine snaps into place it will not
rotate and is very safe.
I may find that this is a great addition after I have played with someones
door that has this new addition but I won't be adding this to my
experimental plane anytime soon. I worry about emergencies and having
someone on the outside who is trying to get me and my family out try to
understand that you have to lift the little handle, push the button and
rotate the handle.
I agree that the door can be improved but this is a very poor band-aid. I
don't want to get flamed here, I just want new builders to understand that
the doors are not unsafe and if installed correctly with the warning lights
and properly locking handles they are safe. New builders have this
perception that the doors need a 100% redesign, and I don't want anyone to
be scared off.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
_____
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Fri, January 15, 2010 3:01:38 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
I find it rather ludicrous to build an efficient airplane only to hang the
handle and a speed brake on the outside of the door. IMHO, it's a poor
solution at best.
Linn
Jim Berry wrote:
>
> Attached are photos of the new door safety latch, which I think are self
explanatory. It is my understanding that everyone with a finish kit will
have their parts and drawings by the end of next week. The only thing I
would consider changing is to increase the angle between the legs of the
springs that you will fabricate. My personal preference would be for a
stronger spring loading of the latch. I don't have a way to scan the large
format drawings, but will try to photograph them and get them posted later
today.
>
> Jim Berry
> 40482
> N15JB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281668#281668
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0441_836.jpg
<http://forums.matronics.com/files/img_0441_836.jpg>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0440_915.jpg
<http://forums.matronics.com/files/img_0440_915.jpg>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0439_172.jpg
<http://forums.matronics.com/files/img_0439_172.jpg>
Message 65
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what does the data plate on your engine say?
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 5:24 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: 10 SB
My engine is experimental, simply because I have Eci cylinders. Eci
cylinders have a revised FAA AD on them which leads me to believe regardless
of if it's certified or not I think one is still required to make the
changes per the AD.
P
From: DLM <mailto:dlm46007@cox.net>
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 1:31 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
agreed: if the data plate still indicates a certified Lycoming as mine does.
Certified parts to remain certified must comply with ADs.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: 10 SB
There is a major disagreement between EAA and FAA. FAA says ADs apply to all
aircraft/components they are issued for. If AD comes out on a Lycoming IO540
crankshaft, piston pin plugs, etc. it does apply to any aircraft that has
the exact engine called out, whether experimental or not, according to FAA.
Of course EAA disputes that, but we know FAA writes, interprets, enforces
and is judge jury and executioner. NTSB is a rubber stamp for the most part.
Not disagreeing with your comments about Service Bulletins, just pointing
out that there are many opinions on applicability of ADs.
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 12:56 PM, DLM <dlm46007@cox.net> wrote:
The time of compliance is determined by the builder. SBs in the USA for
experimental aircraft are advisory only ; even certified aircraft are
required to comply with SBs only if used commercially. Neither Vans nor the
FAA have authority to require compliance prior to further flight. These are
not ADs; ADs apply to certified aircraft.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 11:56 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I wouldn't think that posting SB on a website wouldn't stand-up in court as
official notification. Meaning the clock hasn't started for compliance.
But once you get a physical copy of the SB in the mail, with the revised
plans, with the appropriate materials; that's a different story.
The smart ones are probably those who aren't replying to the thread. J
Cause they still don't know about the SB yet..
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 12:35 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I received a positive response to this email to Scott Risan this AM.
"I believe you would eliminate a lot of calls to technical support by
publishing the plans changes in PDF form. It would seem that Section 45A
will be common knowledge in about two weeks; why not publish as a PDF and
eliminate the calls to technical support looking for information. Also the
time of compliance is not very realistic; perhaps it should indicate
different times for flying and not flying aircraft, given that flying
aircraft have already been operating safely via other methods. In my case I
am the only pilot; I have lengthened Van's supplied pins to ensure complete
engagement of the metal door frames. My checklist calls for a manual feel of
the pins when engaged (twice) before takeoff."
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:16 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I think everyone is looking for the diagrams/picture of what the fix is.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
David,
If you're looking for the verbage of the SB, it's right here.
If you're looking for the plans revisions, I haven't seen those yet.
Phil
http://i47.tinypic.com/2gxpkdw.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/16hvx1t.jpg
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:15 AM
Subject: RV10-List: 10 SB
I talked to Vans this morning about the SB. They referred me to the SB that
they say is being mailed this week. I asked if there was a PDF and they
indicated not. Perhaps someone on this list , upon receipt of the SB, could
send it to the list in PDF form.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 66
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|
| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
Anyone thinking of integrating the interior aspect of the latch with
the fore/aft movement of the door pin and omit the exterior aspect of
the latch all together?
Jeff Carpenter
40304
Suddenly happy my doors aren't quite finished yet
On Jan 15, 2010, at 11:13 AM, Jim Berry wrote:
>
> Attached are photos of the new door safety latch, which I think are
> self explanatory. It is my understanding that everyone with a finish
> kit will have their parts and drawings by the end of next week. The
> only thing I would consider changing is to increase the angle
> between the legs of the springs that you will fabricate. My personal
> preference would be for a stronger spring loading of the latch. I
> don't have a way to scan the large format drawings, but will try to
> photograph them and get them posted later today.
>
> Jim Berry
> 40482
> N15JB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281668#281668
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0441_836.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0440_915.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0439_172.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0438_137.jpg
>
>
Message 67
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|
It does not matter. The AD is against the ECI cylinders installed on an
aircraft. Just as Lycoming has no say in the AD, nor does Cessna or Piper.
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:50 PM, DLM <dlm46007@cox.net> wrote:
> what does the data plate on your engine say?
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Pascal
> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 5:24 PM
>
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: 10 SB
>
> My engine is experimental, simply because I have Eci cylinders. Eci
> cylinders have a revised FAA AD on them which leads me to believe regardl
ess
> of if it's certified or not I think one is still required to make the
> changes per the AD.
> P
>
> *From:* DLM <dlm46007@cox.net>
> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 1:31 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
>
> agreed: if the data plate still indicates a certified Lycoming as mine
> does. Certified parts to remain certified must comply with ADs.
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Kelly McMullen
> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 1:30 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: 10 SB
>
> There is a major disagreement between EAA and FAA. FAA says ADs apply to
> all aircraft/components they are issued for. If AD comes out on a Lycomin
g
> IO540 crankshaft, piston pin plugs, etc. it does apply to any aircraft th
at
> has the exact engine called out, whether experimental or not, according t
o
> FAA. Of course EAA disputes that, but we know FAA writes, interprets,
> enforces and is judge jury and executioner. NTSB is a rubber stamp for th
e
> most part. Not disagreeing with your comments about Service Bulletins, ju
st
> pointing out that there are many opinions on applicability of ADs.
>
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 12:56 PM, DLM <dlm46007@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> The time of compliance is determined by the builder. SBs in the USA for
>> experimental aircraft are advisory only ; even certified aircraft are
>> required to comply with SBs only if used commercially. Neither Vans nor
the
>> FAA have authority to require compliance prior to further flight. These
are
>> not ADs; ADs apply to certified aircraft.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
>> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Perry, Phil
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 11:56 AM
>>
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
>>
>> I wouldn=92t think that posting SB on a website wouldn=92t stand-up in
>> court as official notification. Meaning the clock hasn=92t started for
>> compliance.
>>
>>
>>
>> But once you get a physical copy of the SB in the mail, with the revised
>> plans, with the appropriate materials; that=92s a different story.
>>
>>
>>
>> The smart ones are probably those who aren=92t replying to the thread.
J
>> Cause they still don=92t know about the SB yet=85=85
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* DLM [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net]
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 12:35 PM
>>
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
>>
>>
>>
>> I received a positive response to this email to Scott Risan this AM.
>>
>>
>>
>> "I believe you would eliminate a lot of calls to technical support by
>> publishing the plans changes in PDF form. It would seem that Section 45A
>> will be common knowledge in about two weeks; why not publish as a PDF an
d
>> eliminate the calls to technical support looking for information. Also t
he
>> time of compliance is not very realistic; perhaps it should indicate
>> different times for flying and not flying aircraft, given that flying
>> aircraft have already been operating safely via other methods. In my cas
e I
>> am the only pilot; I have lengthened Van's supplied pins to ensure compl
ete
>> engagement of the metal door frames. My checklist calls for a manual fee
l of
>> the pins when engaged (twice) before takeoff."
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
>> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *RV Builder (Michael
>> Sausen)
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 10:16 AM
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
>>
>> I think everyone is looking for the diagrams/picture of what the fix is.
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
>> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Perry, Phil
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 10:04 AM
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
>>
>>
>>
>> David,
>>
>>
>>
>> If you=92re looking for the verbage of the SB, it=92s right here.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you=92re looking for the plans revisions, I haven=92t seen those yet
=85
>>
>>
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: http://i47.tinypic.com/2gxpkdw.jpg]
>>
>>
>> [image: http://i49.tinypic.com/16hvx1t.jpg]
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* DLM [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net]
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 9:15 AM
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* RV10-List: 10 SB
>>
>>
>>
>> I talked to Vans this morning about the SB. They referred me to the SB
>> that they say is being mailed this week. I asked if there was a PDF and
they
>> indicated not. Perhaps someone on this list , upon receipt of the SB, co
uld
>> send it to the list in PDF form.
>>
>> * *
>>
>> * *
>>
>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>>
>> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>>
>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>>
>> * *
>>
>>
>
Message 68
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| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
Rick, I totally agree with you....=C2- although my Van's idiot lights are
not functioning.=C2- Van's sent out a number of micro switches which wer
e ass backwards.=C2- I tried everything to get them to work, then just ga
ve up on them.=C2- Then Van's sends out a bulletin saying if you received
a specific=C2-part numbered micro switch, let them know and they'd send
=C2-out the correct ones.=C2- Well, in the meantime, my pre-takeoff pro
cedure was, and is, to personally verify that each door is totally closed,
and locked.... pretty simple... I do it EVERYTIME.=C2- After a very short
time, it's a total habit.=C2- That coupled with the fact that I threw aw
ay the Van's=C2-plastic/nylon receivers and replaced them with the billet
ed replacements, leaves me=C2-feeling very confident with my RV10 doors.
My 4cents worth....
Don McDonald=C2-=C2-
--- On Fri, 1/15/10, Rick <ricksked@cox.net> wrote:
From: Rick <ricksked@cox.net>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
There is no way I=99m putting that piece of Frankenstein crap on my a
ircraft. =C2-JeeezWTF is Van=99s thinking except putting t
his out to cover their ass. I think a bungee cord between the two door hand
les inside would work much better. Sorry but I=99ll check the lights,
check the doors and continue on. So far my policy and procedures have work
ed fine and have proven that too!!
=C2-
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of DLM
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 2:53 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
=C2-
Fortunately the "mandatory " nature of this does not apply nor does the com
pliance timeframe. undoubtedly there will be builders who will offer the ob
ligatory "yes sir three bags full" but this should be considered for each p
articular situation and aircraft. After all, the beauty of this=C2-is tha
t the builder is the manufacturer. You did specify that you or your organiz
ation was the manufacturer on the airworthiness forms.
=C2-
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
(I posted this at VAF, I also am not very impressed)
I am going to have to think about this SB before installing.
It would have been nice to talk with the whole community of RV-10 builders
before launching this SB. I do not feel it is necessary and is just an extr
a device that if not installed properly will not function correctly I would
suspect. If you drive to root cause on the door issue it comes down to peo
ple not installing the warning lights, and not properly completing their pr
e-flight.
I don't want to offend anyone that has had their door come off but I have h
eard many stories about the doors that have come off, especially the one th
at hit the horizontal stabilizer and there were many other factors involved
with that incident. Most of them will admit that the door was never fully
closed before taking off. All of them should have been prevented through pr
oper preflight and checklists.
If the current system is installed correctly, the indicator lights installe
d, it is very unlikely and almost impossible to have a problem. The only wa
y for the door to open is if you squeezed the interlock on the handle and o
pened the door. I know there are many RV-10's flying around with no indicat
or lights on the doors and I don't understand why. They work so great. On m
y doors if the pin moves 1/8" away from fully closed the lights come on.
My preflight includes the following:
-Confirm door handle has locked into place
-Check all four corners for any obvious gap
-Check door ajar light
-Before takeoff, check all warning lights (includes the door ajar light)
If the proximity sensors are installed correctly it is IMPOSSIBLE not to ha
ve each of the four pins in their proper spot. If one is caught outside the
cabin (which has happened to me when passengers try to shut the door befor
e I get there) the light is on and there is an obvious gap.
Another concern I read about is the handle not locking into place. If yours
does not, take it apart and fix it. Once mine snaps into place it will not
rotate and is very safe.
I may find that this is a great addition after I have played with someones
door that has this new addition but I won't be adding this to my experiment
al plane anytime soon. I worry about emergencies and having someone on the
outside who is trying to get me and my family out try to understand that yo
u have to lift the little handle, push the button and rotate the handle.
I agree that the door can be improved but this is a very poor band-aid. I d
on't want to get flamed here, I just want new builders to understand that t
he doors are not unsafe and if installed correctly with the warning lights
and properly locking handles they are safe. New builders have this percepti
on that the doors need a 100% redesign, and I don't want anyone to be scare
d off.
=C2-
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
=C2-
=C2-
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Fri, January 15, 2010 3:01:38 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
I find it rather ludicrous to build an efficient airplane only to hang the
handle and a speed brake on the outside of the door.=C2- IMHO, it's a poo
r solution at best.
Linn
Jim Berry wrote:
>
> Attached are photos of the new door safety latch, which I think are self
explanatory. It is my understanding that everyone with a finish kit will ha
ve their parts and drawings by the end of next week. The only thing I would
consider changing is to increase the angle between the legs of the springs
that you will fabricate. My personal preference would be for a stronger sp
ring loading of the latch. I don't have a way to scan the large format draw
ings, but will try to photograph them and get them posted later today.
>
> Jim Berry
> 40482
> N15JB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281668#281668
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0441_836.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0440_915.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0439_172.jpg
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List Web href="http://forums.ma
tronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com -Matt href="http://www.matronics
.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c==========
=
=0A=0A=0A
Message 69
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depends on whether there is an identification on the ECI cylinders. I would
tend to consider engine ADs more seriously but the identification is key and
who is going to identify the parts except the person holding a repairman
certificate or an A&P/IA? If there is no ID, the parts cannot be determined
as certified.
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 7:14 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: 10 SB
It does not matter. The AD is against the ECI cylinders installed on an
aircraft. Just as Lycoming has no say in the AD, nor does Cessna or Piper.
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:50 PM, DLM <dlm46007@cox.net> wrote:
what does the data plate on your engine say?
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 5:24 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: 10 SB
My engine is experimental, simply because I have Eci cylinders. Eci
cylinders have a revised FAA AD on them which leads me to believe regardless
of if it's certified or not I think one is still required to make the
changes per the AD.
P
From: DLM <mailto:dlm46007@cox.net>
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 1:31 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
agreed: if the data plate still indicates a certified Lycoming as mine does.
Certified parts to remain certified must comply with ADs.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: 10 SB
There is a major disagreement between EAA and FAA. FAA says ADs apply to all
aircraft/components they are issued for. If AD comes out on a Lycoming IO540
crankshaft, piston pin plugs, etc. it does apply to any aircraft that has
the exact engine called out, whether experimental or not, according to FAA.
Of course EAA disputes that, but we know FAA writes, interprets, enforces
and is judge jury and executioner. NTSB is a rubber stamp for the most part.
Not disagreeing with your comments about Service Bulletins, just pointing
out that there are many opinions on applicability of ADs.
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 12:56 PM, DLM <dlm46007@cox.net> wrote:
The time of compliance is determined by the builder. SBs in the USA for
experimental aircraft are advisory only ; even certified aircraft are
required to comply with SBs only if used commercially. Neither Vans nor the
FAA have authority to require compliance prior to further flight. These are
not ADs; ADs apply to certified aircraft.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 11:56 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I wouldn't think that posting SB on a website wouldn't stand-up in court as
official notification. Meaning the clock hasn't started for compliance.
But once you get a physical copy of the SB in the mail, with the revised
plans, with the appropriate materials; that's a different story.
The smart ones are probably those who aren't replying to the thread. J
Cause they still don't know about the SB yet..
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 12:35 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I received a positive response to this email to Scott Risan this AM.
"I believe you would eliminate a lot of calls to technical support by
publishing the plans changes in PDF form. It would seem that Section 45A
will be common knowledge in about two weeks; why not publish as a PDF and
eliminate the calls to technical support looking for information. Also the
time of compliance is not very realistic; perhaps it should indicate
different times for flying and not flying aircraft, given that flying
aircraft have already been operating safely via other methods. In my case I
am the only pilot; I have lengthened Van's supplied pins to ensure complete
engagement of the metal door frames. My checklist calls for a manual feel of
the pins when engaged (twice) before takeoff."
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:16 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I think everyone is looking for the diagrams/picture of what the fix is.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
David,
If you're looking for the verbage of the SB, it's right here.
If you're looking for the plans revisions, I haven't seen those yet.
Phil
http://i47.tinypic.com/2gxpkdw.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/16hvx1t.jpg
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:15 AM
Subject: RV10-List: 10 SB
I talked to Vans this morning about the SB. They referred me to the SB that
they say is being mailed this week. I asked if there was a PDF and they
indicated not. Perhaps someone on this list , upon receipt of the SB, could
send it to the list in PDF form.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 70
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The big ECI on the valve cover is a big clue. I wouldn't be surprised to se
e
a part number on them as well.
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 7:57 PM, DLM <dlm46007@cox.net> wrote:
> depends on whether there is an identification on the ECI cylinders. I
> would tend to consider engine ADs more seriously but the identification i
s
> key and who is going to identify the parts except the person holding a
> repairman certificate or an A&P/IA? If there is no ID, the parts cannot b
e
> determined as certified.
>
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Kelly McMullen
> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 7:14 PM
>
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: 10 SB
>
> It does not matter. The AD is against the ECI cylinders installed on an
> aircraft. Just as Lycoming has no say in the AD, nor does Cessna or Piper
.
>
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:50 PM, DLM <dlm46007@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> what does the data plate on your engine say?
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
>> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Pascal
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 5:24 PM
>>
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: 10 SB
>>
>> My engine is experimental, simply because I have Eci cylinders. Eci
>> cylinders have a revised FAA AD on them which leads me to believe regard
less
>> of if it's certified or not I think one is still required to make the
>> changes per the AD.
>> P
>>
>> *From:* DLM <dlm46007@cox.net>
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 1:31 PM
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
>>
>> agreed: if the data plate still indicates a certified Lycoming as mine
>> does. Certified parts to remain certified must comply with ADs.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
>> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Kelly McMullen
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 1:30 PM
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: 10 SB
>>
>> There is a major disagreement between EAA and FAA. FAA says ADs apply to
>> all aircraft/components they are issued for. If AD comes out on a Lycomi
ng
>> IO540 crankshaft, piston pin plugs, etc. it does apply to any aircraft t
hat
>> has the exact engine called out, whether experimental or not, according
to
>> FAA. Of course EAA disputes that, but we know FAA writes, interprets,
>> enforces and is judge jury and executioner. NTSB is a rubber stamp for t
he
>> most part. Not disagreeing with your comments about Service Bulletins, j
ust
>> pointing out that there are many opinions on applicability of ADs.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 12:56 PM, DLM <dlm46007@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> The time of compliance is determined by the builder. SBs in the USA fo
r
>>> experimental aircraft are advisory only ; even certified aircraft are
>>> required to comply with SBs only if used commercially. Neither Vans nor
the
>>> FAA have authority to require compliance prior to further flight. These
are
>>> not ADs; ADs apply to certified aircraft.
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
>>> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Perry, Phil
>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 11:56 AM
>>>
>>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
>>>
>>> I wouldn=92t think that posting SB on a website wouldn=92t stand-up i
n
>>> court as official notification. Meaning the clock hasn=92t started for
>>> compliance.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But once you get a physical copy of the SB in the mail, with the revise
d
>>> plans, with the appropriate materials; that=92s a different story.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The smart ones are probably those who aren=92t replying to the thread.
J
>>> Cause they still don=92t know about the SB yet=85=85
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* DLM [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net]
>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 12:35 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I received a positive response to this email to Scott Risan this AM.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "I believe you would eliminate a lot of calls to technical support by
>>> publishing the plans changes in PDF form. It would seem that Section 45
A
>>> will be common knowledge in about two weeks; why not publish as a PDF a
nd
>>> eliminate the calls to technical support looking for information. Also
the
>>> time of compliance is not very realistic; perhaps it should indicate
>>> different times for flying and not flying aircraft, given that flying
>>> aircraft have already been operating safely via other methods. In my ca
se I
>>> am the only pilot; I have lengthened Van's supplied pins to ensure comp
lete
>>> engagement of the metal door frames. My checklist calls for a manual fe
el of
>>> the pins when engaged (twice) before takeoff."
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
>>> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *RV Builder (Michae
l
>>> Sausen)
>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 10:16 AM
>>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
>>>
>>> I think everyone is looking for the diagrams/picture of what the fix is
.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
>>> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Perry, Phil
>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 10:04 AM
>>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> David,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you=92re looking for the verbage of the SB, it=92s right here.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you=92re looking for the plans revisions, I haven=92t seen those yet
=85
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: http://i47.tinypic.com/2gxpkdw.jpg]
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: http://i49.tinypic.com/16hvx1t.jpg]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* DLM [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net]
>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 9:15 AM
>>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> *Subject:* RV10-List: 10 SB
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I talked to Vans this morning about the SB. They referred me to the SB
>>> that they say is being mailed this week. I asked if there was a PDF and
they
>>> indicated not. Perhaps someone on this list , upon receipt of the SB, c
ould
>>> send it to the list in PDF form.
>>>
>>> * *
>>>
>>> * *
>>>
>>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>>>
>>> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>>>
>>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>>>
>>> * *
>>>
>>>
>>
>
Message 71
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Haven't any of you folks thought about hitting the "Post Reply" button instead
of "Quote?" We don't need to see the same stuff over and over again. Sorry for
the rant....
John
--------
#40572 QB. Engine on, wing attach coming soon. Panel delivery soon.
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281757#281757
Message 72
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| Subject: | doors, trim, questions |
Great timing. Finished my 4th flight today and then find a "grounding SB". I have
the aftermarket billets, the pins go way past the fiberglass, the doors "lock"
nicely, and my warning light system works (they don't go out until the latches
click and they are the "push to test" type). So I will continue to fly
until our community comes to a more settled opinion. In terms of the aileron
trim: 4 flights is not a lot of experience but on today's flight I flew the right
tank down fairly low (to make it easier to recalibrate the floats) and I
had to use the trim to get the wings to stay level hands off. Now a few questions:
My elevator trim works well (both equally neutral and both sides stay that
way at cruise speeds) although my elevator horns are up about 1/4 to 1/2 inch
on each side at 145K, -3 flaps, and level flight. (Looks like Tim's picture
on his site). So I think all that is good, but when the trim is neutral the EFIS
trim indicator is way off the neutral (centered indication). I've gone thru
the set up procedure twice with the same results. Any advice on how to "square
up" the indicator? Even the aileron trim indicator is off a bit but I really
have not looked at it with even weighting (fuel and front passengers). One
last question: Have about 7 hours on the engine (Mattituck with 9:1 pistons,
LightSpeed on the top) and have been anal about the break-in: only 20 minutes
of ground time and always 70-75% except for the 4 landings. OAT between 0 and
30F, CHT's never above 365 and oil temps at 170 on climb out and low 160's at
high cruise. And I am not burning any oil!! And it still looks as clear as
when I first put it in. Should I just shut up or am I missing something? Jay
Rowe
Message 73
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| Subject: | Door SB just posted |
Let's make Lemonade from VANS Aussie Lemon rule. It is a Major
acknowledgement (and one we don't see often) and well overdue that VANS
published an SB on the repetitive door opening in flight scenario.
There is further hope that acknowledgements might just lead to further
parts improvements on follow-up kit sales. A few on this list have
memorialized some of them. We can also look on the bright side that
just like the SB on the empennage doubler, no other cases have arisen
and as you point out Michael, it is only Advisory in the USA. We can
also celebrate the fact that Ken Scott did not have to lecture us to
ignore the issue and just build the damn thing.
Ron, if you want, I can pick up the parts this morning and Fedex them
to you immediately. Being grounded for lack of parts is no fun.
John Cox
Hangar D-20, Aurora, OR, US of A
do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 3:53 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Door SB just posted
Ron,
Unless the Aussie FAA sees things differently than our FAA, there is
no such thing as "grounded" or "mandatory" in the experimental world as
the pilot and the FAA/NTSB are really the only two authorities here that
can ground an aircraft here. As you said, people have been flying for
years before Van's acknowledged the problem with this SB. Use good
judgment and go fly.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron McGann
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 11:45 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Door SB just posted
Time of Compliance: Before further flight
So now we are grounded for an issue that we have known about for more
than 2 years.
Will be interesting to see how long it takes to get the parts to us in
the deeeeep south.
A real pisser - in the middle of our peak flying season no less.
Ron
VH-XRM, not flying in Oz.
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Friday, 15 January 2010 12:17 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Door SB just posted
Safety Latch for the Door SB was just posted.......
http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/sb10-1-4.pdf
I looked to see if details of the changes were online, but couldn't find
them. I guess who ever receives there kit in the mail first will need
to update us all.
Bob
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
; - The RV10-List Email Forum
-http://www.matronics.===============
< Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com</bsp;
- List Contribution Web Sitenbsp; -Matt
Drallehref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics
.
com/con
Message 74
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| Subject: | Door SB just posted |
John, you don't have that option when looking "ONLINE".
=C2-
Another issue was the axle extensions.... I called Van's and tried to give
them 40 or so machined extensions, and they wanted nothing to do with it.
=C2- I just thought the next 20 kits would have a bonus.=C2- Guess what
Van's, YOURS BREAK.=C2- Instead I ended up sending most of them to Alex
D.
Don McDonald
--- On Fri, 1/15/10, John Cox <johnwcox@pacificnw.com> wrote:
From: John Cox <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Door SB just posted
Let's make Lemonade from VANS Aussie Lemon rule.=C2- It is a Major acknow
ledgement (and one we don't see often) and well overdue that VANS published
an SB on the repetitive door opening in flight scenario.=C2- There is fu
rther hope that acknowledgements might just lead to further parts improveme
nts on follow-up kit sales.=C2- A few on this list have memorialized some
of them.=C2- We can also look on the bright side that just like the SB o
n the empennage doubler, no other cases have arisen and as you point out Mi
chael, it is only Advisory in the USA.=C2- We can also celebrate the fact
that Ken Scott did not have to lecture us to ignore the issue and just bui
ld the damn thing.
=C2-
Ron, if you want,=C2- I can pick up the parts this morning and Fedex them
to you immediately.=C2- Being grounded for lack of parts is no fun.
=C2-
John Cox
Hangar D-20, Aurora, OR, US of A
=C2-
do not archive
=C2-
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 3:53 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Door SB just posted
=C2-
Ron,
=C2-
=C2- Unless the Aussie FAA sees things differently than our FAA, there is
no such thing as =9Cgrounded=9D or =9Cmandatory=9D
in the experimental world as the pilot and the FAA/NTSB are really the onl
y two authorities here that can ground an aircraft here.=C2- As you said,
people have been flying for years before Van=99s acknowledged the pr
oblem with this SB.=C2- Use good judgment and go fly.
=C2-
Michael
=C2-
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron McGann
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 11:45 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Door SB just posted
=C2-
Time of Compliance: Before further flight
=C2-
So now we are grounded for an issue that we have known about for more than
2 years.=C2-
=C2-
Will be interesting to see how long it takes to get the parts to us in the
deeeeep south.=C2-
A real pisser =93 in the middle of our peak flying season no less.
=C2-
Ron
VH-XRM, not flying in Oz.
=C2-
=C2-
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Friday, 15 January 2010 12:17 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Door SB just posted
=C2-
Safety Latch for the Door SB was just posted.
=C2-
http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/sb10-1-4.pdf
=C2-
=C2-
I looked to see if details of the changes were online, but couldn=99t
find them.=C2-=C2- I guess who ever receives there kit in the mail fir
st will need to update us all.
=C2-
Bob
=C2- =C2- =C2-http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://foru
ms.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution =C2-;=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2- - The RV10-List Email Forum -http://www.matronics.==
==============< Same great content also availab
le via the Web Forums!
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com</bsp;=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- - List Contribution Web Sitenbsp;=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- -Matt Drallehref="htt
p://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/con =C2- =C2
- =C2-http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matroni
cs.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution =C2-
=0A=0A=0A
Message 75
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| Subject: | Re: doors, trim, questions |
Newbie here... but still have ideas.... I would put a blockage of some sort
prior to your scat for the oil cooler... get that oil temp up to 180 to 19
0 range.- Insure that it's burning off any moisture/condensate.- I made
a butterfly valve for the rear of the plenum on mine, and it works great.
- Open all the way, I see numbers like yours, in the low 160's.- but a
little pull on the butterfly valve, 180 to 190.- Other than that, keep fl
ying.- Where are you located?
Don McDonald
Sacramento area
110 hours and counting.
--- On Fri, 1/15/10, jfrjr@roadrunner.com <jfrjr@roadrunner.com> wrote:
From: jfrjr@roadrunner.com <jfrjr@roadrunner.com>
Subject: RV10-List: doors, trim, questions
Great timing.- Finished my 4th flight today and then find a "grounding SB
". I have the aftermarket billets, the pins go way past the fiberglass, the
doors "lock" nicely, and my warning light system works (they don't go out
until the latches click and they are the "push to test" type).- So I will
continue to fly until our community comes to a more settled opinion.- In
terms of the aileron trim:- 4 flights is not a lot of experience but on
today's flight I flew the right tank down fairly low (to make it easier to
recalibrate the floats) and I had to use the trim to get the wings to stay
level hands off. Now a few questions:- My elevator trim works well (both
equally neutral and both sides stay that way at cruise speeds) although my
elevator horns are up about 1/4 to 1/2 inch on each side at 145K, -3 flaps,
and level flight. (Looks like Tim's picture on his site). So I think all t
hat is good, but when the trim is neutral the EFIS trim indicator is way
off the neutral (centered !
indication).- I've gone thru the set up procedure twice with the same res
ults.- Any advice on how to "square up" the indicator? Even the aileron t
rim indicator is off a bit but I really have not looked at it with even wei
ghting (fuel and front passengers).- One last question: Have about 7 hour
s on the engine (Mattituck with 9:1 pistons, LightSpeed on the top) and hav
e been anal about the break-in:- only 20 minutes of ground time and alway
s 70-75% except for the 4 landings. OAT between 0 and 30F, CHT's never abov
e 365 and oil temps at 170 on climb out and low 160's at high cruise.- An
d I am not burning any oil!!- And it still looks as clear as when I first
put it in.- Should I just shut up or am I missing something?---Jay
Rowe
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 76
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| Subject: | Re: Door safety latch |
I would be really interested in hearing from anyone with a background in
insurance. Yes we are the builder, and only airworthiness bodies may be
able to ground aircraft. But if you intentionally fail to comply with an
instruction from the kit supplier and a door departs in flight, what are the
chances of a successful claim??
Cheers,
Ron
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DLM
Sent: Saturday, 16 January 2010 9:53 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
Fortunately the "mandatory " nature of this does not apply nor does the
compliance timeframe. undoubtedly there will be builders who will offer the
obligatory "yes sir three bags full" but this should be considered for each
particular situation and aircraft. After all, the beauty of this is that the
builder is the manufacturer. You did specify that you or your organization
was the manufacturer on the airworthiness forms.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
(I posted this at VAF, I also am not very impressed)
I am going to have to think about this SB before installing.
It would have been nice to talk with the whole community of RV-10 builders
before launching this SB. I do not feel it is necessary and is just an extra
device that if not installed properly will not function correctly I would
suspect. If you drive to root cause on the door issue it comes down to
people not installing the warning lights, and not properly completing their
pre-flight.
I don't want to offend anyone that has had their door come off but I have
heard many stories about the doors that have come off, especially the one
that hit the horizontal stabilizer and there were many other factors
involved with that incident. Most of them will admit that the door was never
fully closed before taking off. All of them should have been prevented
through proper preflight and checklists.
If the current system is installed correctly, the indicator lights
installed, it is very unlikely and almost impossible to have a problem. The
only way for the door to open is if you squeezed the interlock on the handle
and opened the door. I know there are many RV-10's flying around with no
indicator lights on the doors and I don't understand why. They work so
great. On my doors if the pin moves 1/8" away from fully closed the lights
come on.
My preflight includes the following:
-Confirm door handle has locked into place
-Check all four corners for any obvious gap
-Check door ajar light
-Before takeoff, check all warning lights (includes the door ajar light)
If the proximity sensors are installed correctly it is IMPOSSIBLE not to
have each of the four pins in their proper spot. If one is caught outside
the cabin (which has happened to me when passengers try to shut the door
before I get there) the light is on and there is an obvious gap.
Another concern I read about is the handle not locking into place. If yours
does not, take it apart and fix it. Once mine snaps into place it will not
rotate and is very safe.
I may find that this is a great addition after I have played with someones
door that has this new addition but I won't be adding this to my
experimental plane anytime soon. I worry about emergencies and having
someone on the outside who is trying to get me and my family out try to
understand that you have to lift the little handle, push the button and
rotate the handle.
I agree that the door can be improved but this is a very poor band-aid. I
don't want to get flamed here, I just want new builders to understand that
the doors are not unsafe and if installed correctly with the warning lights
and properly locking handles they are safe. New builders have this
perception that the doors need a 100% redesign, and I don't want anyone to
be scared off.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
_____
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Fri, January 15, 2010 3:01:38 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
I find it rather ludicrous to build an efficient airplane only to hang the
handle and a speed brake on the outside of the door. IMHO, it's a poor
solution at best.
Linn
Jim Berry wrote:
>
> Attached are photos of the new door safety latch, which I think are self
explanatory. It is my understanding that everyone with a finish kit will
have their parts and drawings by the end of next week. The only thing I
would consider changing is to increase the angle between the legs of the
springs that you will fabricate. My personal preference would be for a
stronger spring loading of the latch. I don't have a way to scan the large
format drawings, but will try to photograph them and get them posted later
today.
>
> Jim Berry
> 40482
> N15JB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281668#281668
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0441_836.jpg
<http://forums.matronics.com/files/img_0441_836.jpg>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0440_915.jpg
<http://forums.matronics.com/files/img_0440_915.jpg>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0439_172.jpg
<http://forums.matronics.com/files/img_0439_172.jpg>
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
Message 77
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Mailing list only members enjoy the quoted portion. Each his own.
Also, thought of adding do not archive to the bottom so it does not get
archived?
DO NOT ARCHIVE
On 1/15/10 9:18 PM, johngoodman wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "johngoodman"<johngoodman@earthlink.net>
>
> Haven't any of you folks thought about hitting the "Post Reply" button instead
of "Quote?" We don't need to see the same stuff over and over again. Sorry for
the rant....
> John
>
> --------
> #40572 QB. Engine on, wing attach coming soon. Panel delivery soon.
> N711JG reserved
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281757#281757
>
>
>
Message 78
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| Subject: | Re: doors, trim, questions |
You may be broken in, but I would go to at least 15-20 hours doing
what you are doing before deciding to change anything, Perhaps even
25.
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 8:14 PM, <jfrjr@roadrunner.com> wrote:
One last question: Have about 7 hours on the engine (Mattituck with
9:1 pistons, LightSpeed on the top) and have been anal about the
break-in: only 20 minutes of ground time and always 70-75% except for
the 4 landings. OAT between 0 and 30F, CHT's never above 365 and oil
temps at 170 on climb out and low 160's at high cruise. And I am not
burning any oil!! And it still looks as clear as when I first put it
in. Should I just shut up or am I missing something? Jay Rowe
Message 79
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If Ron will confirm his address "Down Under" and permission to post
here(his SB 10-1-4 kit), I picked it up today before VANS closed for the
weekend and it is ready for an immediate FEDEX transmittal to Oz - post
haste. A Fedex 757 is on our PDX ramp next door to my airline and ready
for a flight to MEM and points beyond such as Melbourne. We could all
use a quick sharing of information on the three bags and revised 45A
plans "with his permission". I could even convert the document to
PDF??? I would like to confirm that his address on file is still the
most correct for a speedy shipment.
John Cox
do not archive
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 11:56 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I wouldn't think that posting SB on a website wouldn't stand-up in court
as official notification. Meaning the clock hasn't started for
compliance.
But once you get a physical copy of the SB in the mail, with the revised
plans, with the appropriate materials; that's a different story.
The smart ones are probably those who aren't replying to the thread. J
Cause they still don't know about the SB yet......
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 12:35 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I received a positive response to this email to Scott Risan this AM.
"I believe you would eliminate a lot of calls to technical support by
publishing the plans changes in PDF form. It would seem that Section 45A
will be common knowledge in about two weeks; why not publish as a PDF
and eliminate the calls to technical support looking for information.
Also the time of compliance is not very realistic; perhaps it should
indicate different times for flying and not flying aircraft, given that
flying aircraft have already been operating safely via other methods. In
my case I am the only pilot; I have lengthened Van's supplied pins to
ensure complete engagement of the metal door frames. My checklist calls
for a manual feel of the pins when engaged (twice) before takeoff."
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:16 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
I think everyone is looking for the diagrams/picture of what the fix is.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 10 SB
David,
If you're looking for the verbage of the SB, it's right here.
If you're looking for the plans revisions, I haven't seen those yet...
Phil
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:15 AM
Subject: RV10-List: 10 SB
I talked to Vans this morning about the SB. They referred me to the SB
that they say is being mailed this week. I asked if there was a PDF and
they indicated not. Perhaps someone on this list , upon receipt of the
SB, could send it to the list in PDF form.
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