---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 02/04/10: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:35 AM - Re: Proper Technique to Tighten Nose Wheel Fork (Tim Olson) 2. 07:54 AM - Re: Proper Technique to Tighten Nose Wheel Fork (Miller John) 3. 07:58 AM - drilling 3/4 inch holes in inboard ribs (Chris Hukill) 4. 08:32 AM - Re: Proper Technique to Tighten Nose Wheel Fork (Scott Schmidt) 5. 08:58 AM - door handle (velo) 6. 09:20 AM - Starter contactor wiring B11 (Jae Chang) 7. 09:39 AM - Re: door handle (Dave Saylor) 8. 09:43 AM - Re: door handle (Les Kearney) 9. 10:04 AM - Re: OT - I want one - Apple iPad (Jae Chang) 10. 10:13 AM - Re: Silver Hawk O-ring (jayb) 11. 11:02 AM - Re: Starter contactor wiring B11 (Jim Berry) 12. 11:41 AM - Re: Re: Starter contactor wiring B11 (Jae Chang) 13. 06:33 PM - Loose Bushing - Was Proper Technique to Tighten Nose Wheel Fork (Robin Marks) 14. 06:55 PM - Re: Loose Bushing - Was Proper Technique to Tighten Nose Wheel Fork (Linn Walters) 15. 07:14 PM - Re: Loose Bushing - Was Proper Technique to Tighten Nose Wheel Fork (Rick) 16. 07:27 PM - Re: Loose Bushing - Was Proper Technique to Tighten Nose Wheel Fork (Linn Walters) 17. 08:10 PM - Re: Loose Bushing - Was Proper Technique to Tighten Nose Wheel Fork (ricksked@cox.net) 18. 11:54 PM - Re: Loose Bushing - Was Proper Technique to Tighten Nose Wheel Fork (Robin Marks) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:35:36 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Proper Technique to Tighten Nose Wheel Fork It gets better after the first 2 or 3 re-torques over 200-300 hrs...it's a break-in process from the feel of it. Definitely right on the landings....the plane makes you look good. Tim On Feb 4, 2010, at 12:06 AM, "Robin Marks" wrote: > > Thanks all. I think I have a little Goldilocks syndrome. First too > loose, then too tight that eventually became too lose. I never felt > comfortable with accurately measuring the break out force and the lack > to refining the nut cotter hole location just adds to the issue. The > only RV I have ever owned that didn't some form of shimmy was my -4. > It > would be nice to have a consistent landings and decelerations with no > vibration. > BTW for those that have yet to land their -10 it's pure Vans. I > regularly touch N110EE down where the only sensation is the spinning > of > the mains followed by a comfortable wheelie till all authority is > lost. > I'm not that good, credit Vans design. > > Robin > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:54:11 AM PST US From: Miller John Subject: Re: RV10-List: Proper Technique to Tighten Nose Wheel Fork My problem with the Matco Axle is getting the Matco parts tight enough. Their instructions say to tighten until the seal doesn't rotate, which I haven't been able to do by hand, then back off just enough to get the set screw in place. Anyone got an idea on how to tighten these parts without using large channel locks and scarring up the finish? grumpy On Feb 3, 2010, at 9:40 PM, Tim Olson wrote: > > I think with that Matco Axle installed it should be pretty > straightforward. For the nut that holds the forks on, > you torque it until it has over 22? lb-ft of breakout force > to get it to swivel....In practice I'd shoot for 25-35 and > be on the high side because it WILL loosen up over the first > couple hundred hours or 2 or 3 years. > > Then for the axle, you'd tighten that matco axle into the > bearing about as tight as you can by hand, and then that sets > the preload. After that you could tighten the axle bolt nuts > to standard torque for that size nut if you wish, because > the matco axle is going to keep it from over tightening. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD > do not archive > > > Robin Marks wrote: >> Does anyone have a detailed description of the best way to properly >> tighten and test the nose wheel fork to minimize shimmy? >> I have only read about it a dozen times and did some archive >> searches but when I tried the results were mediocre. >> (Note: Matco Axel Installed) >> Thanks in advance, >> Robin >> * > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:58:04 AM PST US From: "Chris Hukill" Subject: RV10-List: drilling 3/4 inch holes in inboard ribs I just completed the task of up-drilling those 5/8 holes to 3/4, not for conduit, but for larger bushings. Go to Harbor freight and buy a 3/4 inch max step drill for $7.00 and install it into a drillbit extender. I already had a quarter inch one, and had to drill out the female end a tad to accept the 1/4 inch HEX on the step drill. If you don't already own a drill bit extension, buy one a HF, you'll use it countless times during your build. With the 3/4 inch step drill/ extension rig, just up-drill the inboard rib, thru that to number 2 rib, thru that to number 3 rib, etc. De-bur the holes, and your done. Chris Hukill Wiring the wings ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:37 AM PST US From: Scott Schmidt Subject: Re: RV10-List: Proper Technique to Tighten Nose Wheel Fork Make sure you balance the front wheel. After I balanced mine, which took about 1.5 oz. of lead, I had no more shimmy in my front wheel. Before I did the wheel balancing I tried to tighten and loosen the fork and it never made a difference. Scott Schmidt scottmschmidt@yahoo.com ________________________________ From: Miller John Sent: Thu, February 4, 2010 8:30:06 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Proper Technique to Tighten Nose Wheel Fork My problem with the Matco Axle is getting the Matco parts tight enough. Their instructions say to tighten until the seal doesn't rotate, which I haven't been able to do by hand, then back off just enough to get the set screw in place. Anyone got an idea on how to tighten these parts without using large channel locks and scarring up the finish? grumpy On Feb 3, 2010, at 9:40 PM, Tim Olson wrote: > > I think with that Matco Axle installed it should be pretty straightforward. For the nut that holds the forks on, > you torque it until it has over 22? lb-ft of breakout force > to get it to swivel....In practice I'd shoot for 25-35 and > be on the high side because it WILL loosen up over the first > couple hundred hours or 2 or 3 years. > > Then for the axle, you'd tighten that matco axle into the > bearing about as tight as you can by hand, and then that sets > the preload. After that you could tighten the axle bolt nuts > to standard torque for that size nut if you wish, because > the matco axle is going to keep it from over tightening. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD > do not archive > > > Robin Marks wrote: >> Does anyone have a detailed description of the best way to properly tighten and test the nose wheel fork to minimize shimmy? >> I have only read about it a dozen times and did some archive searches but when I tried the results were mediocre. >> (Note: Matco Axel Installed) >> Thanks in advance, >> Robin >> * > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:58:06 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: door handle From: "velo" I know Rivethead :( made an outside door handle that looked a lot better than Van's. Does anyone know of another source for a door handle. We want to keep the standard door mechanism. Rick Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284848#284848 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:20:42 AM PST US From: Jae Chang Subject: RV10-List: Starter contactor wiring B11 http://picasaweb.google.com/jchang10/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCI7088GZlYCc2AE#5434438361737026322 Could someone explain what exactly the B11 wire does in Van's wiring plans? I cropped an image in the link above. For one, it seems redundant if one were to keep the jumper on the solenoid. Also, Knuckolls uses the I terminal for an indicator light, but clearly, that is not how it is being used here. Jae 40533 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:39:26 AM PST US From: Dave Saylor Subject: Re: RV10-List: door handle We just got a set of these for a different type of plane: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/doorlatch.php Maybe someone else has used them on a 10. They're pretty nice, but the pins have some up/down travel since they rotate around a circumference, unlike the stock pins that only move fore/aft. You'd have to compensate for that somehow but I'm sure it could be done. Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 95076 831-722-9141 Shop 831-750-0284 Cell On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 8:55 AM, velo wrote: > > I know Rivethead :( made an outside door handle that looked a lot better > than Van's. Does anyone know of another source for a door handle. We want > to keep the standard door mechanism. > > Rick > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284848#284848 > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:43:19 AM PST US From: Les Kearney Subject: Re: RV10-List: door handle Hi Steve DeNiri's billet handles and door blocks integrate nicely. The door blocks are a must. The flush billet handles a very nice to have. Cheers Les #40643 Sent from my iPhone On 2010-02-04, at 9:55 AM, velo wrote: > > > I know Rivethead :( made an outside door handle that looked a lot > better than Van's. Does anyone know of another source for a door > handle. We want to keep the standard door mechanism. > > Rick > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284848#284848 > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:04:43 AM PST US From: Jae Chang Subject: Re: RV10-List: OT - I want one - Apple iPad http://goodexperience.com/2010/01/what-makes-a-successf.php Play the video. Clearly, he overlooked the GPS feature! ;) Jae > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:13:53 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Silver Hawk O-ring From: "jayb" This brings up a great question... Is there a list of parts that should be replaced, checked and/or lubed during the annual? Some may be obvious, while others not so much. Thanks, Jay [quote="Kelly McMullen"]If you are careful, you should not damage the O-ring. It is a blue fluorosilicone. Normally changed once a year at annual. Any Mooney service center should have them, since all the 200hp Mooneys use the same injection(with Bendix or Precision nameplate) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284856#284856 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:02:29 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Starter contactor wiring B11 From: "Jim Berry" Jae, I posed this question some time back to both Van's and Skytec. Skytec said they wished that the Vans drawing never existed, and insisted that their way was correct for their starter. The response I got from Van's was that it was complicated. When I asked them to elaborate, they never responded. There was also some recent discussion about this on the Aeroelectric list, with Bob Nuchols offering his interpretation. Jim Berry 40482 N15JB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284862#284862 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:41:01 AM PST US From: Jae Chang Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Starter contactor wiring B11 http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/strtctr.pdf Thanks Jim. Well, for now, I will just stick with the skytec installation http://skytecair.com/images/Certified%20ST2%20Installation%20Wiring_1100.jpg From the PDF above, and my own assumptions, it seems like Vans wiring is very strange. i guess it might work but is sure an odd way to go about it. Jae Jim Berry wrote: > > Jae, > > I posed this question some time back to both Van's and Skytec. Skytec said they wished that the Vans drawing never existed, and insisted that their way was correct for their starter. The response I got from Van's was that it was complicated. When I asked them to elaborate, they never responded. > > There was also some recent discussion about this on the Aeroelectric list, with Bob Nuchols offering his interpretation. > > Jim Berry > 40482 > N15JB > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284862#284862 > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:33:41 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Loose Bushing - Was Proper Technique to Tighten Nose Wheel Fork From: "Robin Marks" Problem found... After removing the fairings & lifting the plane I discovered the gear leg moved left & right approximately 3/4". The movement was quite noticeable when un-weighted. This was a bit of a shock as to why the gear leg was so loose. We removed both cowls etc... and found that the pilots side firewall bushing was somewhat loose in the in the engine mount sleeve. We tried swapping the bushing left & right but the same pilots side sleeve did not snugly retain the bushing. In fact the bushing showed some signs of rotational wear as if it was spinning in the sleeve over time. After close inspection to make sure the sleeve was not cracked or misshapen we determined that the solution was to mill a custom bushing to properly fit the sleeve. After that task was complete we dry fit the assembly to see what play was left and the gear leg was rock solid left and right. I can't imagine that sleeve enlarged over time so it must have been like this from the beginning??? I think we would have noticed that but at this point I can't promise that is the case. Regardless the issue may be resolved. I took a video of the bushing at play but left the camera (along with my airport access card) at the hangar. I will try and post the video tomorrow for those of you that don't get out much. I did a quick breakout test using my digital luggage scale and found the tension required was just under 40 Lbs so tomorrow we will be playing around with that setting as well. Thanks for everyone's input, Robin ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:37 PM PST US From: Linn Walters Subject: Re: RV10-List: Loose Bushing - Was Proper Technique to Tighten Nose Wheel Fork Looking forward to the video! I'm curious .... how much of the bow is left in the belleville washers to create 40 lbs of drag??? I looked at the -10 parts list .... I'm not at the gear install stage yet .... and it lists 2 washers. The Grummans use 4 or more. Can you still push the nose back and forth to 'park' the -10 without using a tow bar??? Linn do not archive Robin Marks wrote: > > Problem found... > After removing the fairings & lifting the plane I discovered the gear > leg moved left & right approximately 3/4". The movement was quite > noticeable when un-weighted. This was a bit of a shock as to why the > gear leg was so loose. We removed both cowls etc... and found that the > pilots side firewall bushing was somewhat loose in the in the engine > mount sleeve. We tried swapping the bushing left & right but the same > pilots side sleeve did not snugly retain the bushing. In fact the > bushing showed some signs of rotational wear as if it was spinning in > the sleeve over time. After close inspection to make sure the sleeve was > not cracked or misshapen we determined that the solution was to mill a > custom bushing to properly fit the sleeve. After that task was complete > we dry fit the assembly to see what play was left and the gear leg was > rock solid left and right. I can't imagine that sleeve enlarged over > time so it must have been like this from the beginning??? I think we > would have noticed that but at this point I can't promise that is the > case. Regardless the issue may be resolved. I took a video of the > bushing at play but left the camera (along with my airport access card) > at the hangar. I will try and post the video tomorrow for those of you > that don't get out much. I did a quick breakout test using my digital > luggage scale and found the tension required was just under 40 Lbs so > tomorrow we will be playing around with that setting as well. > > Thanks for everyone's input, > Robin > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:14:50 PM PST US From: "Rick" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Loose Bushing - Was Proper Technique to Tighten Nose Wheel Fork I use my tow bar, never tried to do it without because the nose wheel wants to turn where I don't want it! Looking forward to Robins video, I only recently picked up the dreaded shimmy, I might add it crept in, not all the sudden...going to follow Scott's recommendation and balance the nose wheel this weekend. I really don't like shoving on my spinner cowl to align the aircraft while putting it in the hangar...that's why I have the tow bar.. Rick -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 6:52 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Loose Bushing - Was Proper Technique to Tighten Nose Wheel Fork Looking forward to the video! I'm curious .... how much of the bow is left in the belleville washers to create 40 lbs of drag??? I looked at the -10 parts list .... I'm not at the gear install stage yet .... and it lists 2 washers. The Grummans use 4 or more. Can you still push the nose back and forth to 'park' the -10 without using a tow bar??? Linn do not archive Robin Marks wrote: > > Problem found... > After removing the fairings & lifting the plane I discovered the gear > leg moved left & right approximately 3/4". The movement was quite > noticeable when un-weighted. This was a bit of a shock as to why the > gear leg was so loose. We removed both cowls etc... and found that the > pilots side firewall bushing was somewhat loose in the in the engine > mount sleeve. We tried swapping the bushing left & right but the same > pilots side sleeve did not snugly retain the bushing. In fact the > bushing showed some signs of rotational wear as if it was spinning in > the sleeve over time. After close inspection to make sure the sleeve was > not cracked or misshapen we determined that the solution was to mill a > custom bushing to properly fit the sleeve. After that task was complete > we dry fit the assembly to see what play was left and the gear leg was > rock solid left and right. I can't imagine that sleeve enlarged over > time so it must have been like this from the beginning??? I think we > would have noticed that but at this point I can't promise that is the > case. Regardless the issue may be resolved. I took a video of the > bushing at play but left the camera (along with my airport access card) > at the hangar. I will try and post the video tomorrow for those of you > that don't get out much. I did a quick breakout test using my digital > luggage scale and found the tension required was just under 40 Lbs so > tomorrow we will be playing around with that setting as well. > > Thanks for everyone's input, > Robin > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:03 PM PST US From: Linn Walters Subject: Re: RV10-List: Loose Bushing - Was Proper Technique to Tighten Nose Wheel Fork As long as you have the nose up ..... measure the side breakout force at the wheel axle. I'm guessing that the 'break-in wear' has loosened up your original setting. Linn Rick wrote: > > I use my tow bar, never tried to do it without because the nose wheel wants > to turn where I don't want it! Looking forward to Robins video, I only > recently picked up the dreaded shimmy, I might add it crept in, not all the > sudden...going to follow Scott's recommendation and balance the nose wheel > this weekend. I really don't like shoving on my spinner cowl to align the > aircraft while putting it in the hangar...that's why I have the tow bar.. > > Rick > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 6:52 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Loose Bushing - Was Proper Technique to Tighten Nose > Wheel Fork > > > Looking forward to the video! > I'm curious .... how much of the bow is left in the belleville washers > to create 40 lbs of drag??? I looked at the -10 parts list .... I'm not > at the gear install stage yet .... and it lists 2 washers. The Grummans > use 4 or more. Can you still push the nose back and forth to 'park' the > -10 without using a tow bar??? > > Linn > do not archive > > Robin Marks wrote: >> >> Problem found... >> After removing the fairings & lifting the plane I discovered the gear >> leg moved left & right approximately 3/4". The movement was quite >> noticeable when un-weighted. This was a bit of a shock as to why the >> gear leg was so loose. We removed both cowls etc... and found that the >> pilots side firewall bushing was somewhat loose in the in the engine >> mount sleeve. We tried swapping the bushing left & right but the same >> pilots side sleeve did not snugly retain the bushing. In fact the >> bushing showed some signs of rotational wear as if it was spinning in >> the sleeve over time. After close inspection to make sure the sleeve was >> not cracked or misshapen we determined that the solution was to mill a >> custom bushing to properly fit the sleeve. After that task was complete >> we dry fit the assembly to see what play was left and the gear leg was >> rock solid left and right. I can't imagine that sleeve enlarged over >> time so it must have been like this from the beginning??? I think we >> would have noticed that but at this point I can't promise that is the >> case. Regardless the issue may be resolved. I took a video of the >> bushing at play but left the camera (along with my airport access card) >> at the hangar. I will try and post the video tomorrow for those of you >> that don't get out much. I did a quick breakout test using my digital >> luggage scale and found the tension required was just under 40 Lbs so >> tomorrow we will be playing around with that setting as well. >> >> Thanks for everyone's input, >> Robin >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:22 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Loose Bushing - Was Proper Technique to Tighten Nose Wheel Fork From: ricksked@cox.net I've adjusted it three times...even relocated the cotter pin hole one flat over...it stays close but with the added hole it hits right at 25 lbs Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: Linn Walters Subject: Re: RV10-List: Loose Bushing - Was Proper Technique to Tighten Nose Wheel Fork As long as you have the nose up ..... measure the side breakout force at the wheel axle. I'm guessing that the 'break-in wear' has loosened up your original setting. Linn Rick wrote: > > I use my tow bar, never tried to do it without because the nose wheel wants > to turn where I don't want it! Looking forward to Robins video, I only > recently picked up the dreaded shimmy, I might add it crept in, not all the > sudden...going to follow Scott's recommendation and balance the nose wheel > this weekend. I really don't like shoving on my spinner cowl to align the > aircraft while putting it in the hangar...that's why I have the tow bar.. > > Rick > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 6:52 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Loose Bushing - Was Proper Technique to Tighten Nose > Wheel Fork > > > Looking forward to the video! > I'm curious .... how much of the bow is left in the belleville washers > to create 40 lbs of drag??? I looked at the -10 parts list .... I'm not > at the gear install stage yet .... and it lists 2 washers. The Grummans > use 4 or more. Can you still push the nose back and forth to 'park' the > -10 without using a tow bar??? > > Linn > do not archive > > Robin Marks wrote: >> >> Problem found... >> After removing the fairings & lifting the plane I discovered the gear >> leg moved left & right approximately 3/4". The movement was quite >> noticeable when un-weighted. This was a bit of a shock as to why the >> gear leg was so loose. We removed both cowls etc... and found that the >> pilots side firewall bushing was somewhat loose in the in the engine >> mount sleeve. We tried swapping the bushing left & right but the same >> pilots side sleeve did not snugly retain the bushing. In fact the >> bushing showed some signs of rotational wear as if it was spinning in >> the sleeve over time. After close inspection to make sure the sleeve was >> not cracked or misshapen we determined that the solution was to mill a >> custom bushing to properly fit the sleeve. After that task was complete >> we dry fit the assembly to see what play was left and the gear leg was >> rock solid left and right. I can't imagine that sleeve enlarged over >> time so it must have been like this from the beginning??? I think we >> would have noticed that but at this point I can't promise that is the >> case. Regardless the issue may be resolved. I took a video of the >> bushing at play but left the camera (along with my airport access card) >> at the hangar. I will try and post the video tomorrow for those of you >> that don't get out much. I did a quick breakout test using my digital >> luggage scale and found the tension required was just under 40 Lbs so >> tomorrow we will be playing around with that setting as well. >> >> Thanks for everyone's input, >> Robin >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:54:42 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Loose Bushing - Was Proper Technique to Tighten Nose Wheel Fork From: "Robin Marks" Linn, I don't know how to access remaining bow. They look like two BV washers to me. Rick, I only use my tow bar to get the plane in and out of my tight, narrow, rusty walled LA hangar. Yuck. Pushing the plane in and out of my larger hangar I use the prop and can easily maneuver the plane. I never place force on the spinner. To all re: the video. Be forewarned It's me holding a heavy flashlight between my shoulder and chin under the engine while jiggling the bushing with one hand and probably holding the video recorder too close for proper focus in the other hand. This is more Felini than Kubrick (I just watched Clockwork Orange) Thanks, Robin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.