---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 02/12/10: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:57 AM - Straightening warped pieces? (Chris Colohan) 2. 04:27 AM - Re: Straightening warped pieces? (Tim Olson) 3. 06:46 AM - Re: Straightening warped pieces? (davidsoutpost@comcast.net) 4. 06:47 AM - Re: Lighter/Accessory sockets (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 5. 07:04 AM - Re: Engine mounts (John Gonzalez) 6. 09:04 AM - Re: Straightening warped pieces? (Kent Ogden) 7. 09:43 AM - Re: Riveting Help (John Cumins) 8. 10:32 AM - Re: Riveting Help (Michael Kraus) 9. 12:13 PM - Re: Re: New Door Latch Video S.B. replacement (Marcus Cooper) 10. 01:50 PM - Re: Riveting Help (DLIUDVINAITIS@aol.com) 11. 04:48 PM - RV 10 - Emp + QB Fuse for sale (Patrick ONeill) 12. 08:51 PM - Re: Straightening warped pieces? (rv10flyer) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:57:57 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Straightening warped pieces? From: Chris Colohan I've finally convinced myself I can build an RV-10, and have received my tailcone kit this week. I finished inventory, then started looking at the pieces for the vertical stabilizer. I noticed that the VS-1008 rear spar doubler and VS-1014 L+R rear spar caps were both somewhat warped. The warp in the spar caps is mentioned in the plans, where they say to clamp it down to avoid the warp -- but there is no mention of a warp in the spar doubler. It bows up about 3/16" when I lay it on a flat table. It looks like the warp is caused by the punching process. I can flatten it out by clamping it down to the spar, but worry that building a plane with internal static stress is not the Right Thing To Do. Should I be worried about this and try to remove the warp? Or should I just rely on the fact that it flattens out when I cleco it to the spar? Or, phrased differently: how much warp in a part pre-assembly is "too much"? Chris (still working through questions which I suspect are old hat to all of you...) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:27:54 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Straightening warped pieces? I don't know how much is too much, but yeah, that's how those parts come. They'll be fine. You can flatten them out if you try. I wouldn't stress too much over it...If you can flatten them so the holes match, it'll all be ok. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive Chris Colohan wrote: > I've finally convinced myself I can build an RV-10, and have received my > tailcone kit this week. > > I finished inventory, then started looking at the pieces for the > vertical stabilizer. I noticed that the VS-1008 rear spar doubler > and VS-1014 L+R rear spar caps were both somewhat warped. The warp in > the spar caps is mentioned in the plans, where they say to clamp it down > to avoid the warp -- but there is no mention of a warp in the spar > doubler. It bows up about 3/16" when I lay it on a flat table. > > It looks like the warp is caused by the punching process. I can flatten > it out by clamping it down to the spar, but worry that building a plane > with internal static stress is not the Right Thing To Do. > > Should I be worried about this and try to remove the warp? Or should I > just rely on the fact that it flattens out when I cleco it to the spar? > > Or, phrased differently: how much warp in a part pre-assembly is "too > much"? > > Chris > > (still working through questions which I suspect are old hat to all of > you...) > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:46:16 AM PST US From: davidsoutpost@comcast.net Subject: Re: RV10-List: Straightening warped pieces? I straightened my warped pieces on the edge of the work bench. Don't overdo it trying to get them perfect. De-burr the edges and holes and it all pulls together when you cleco it together. David Clifford RV-10 In Progress Empennage Done Engine Overhauled & Pickled Closing up The Wings ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 7:26:00 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: RV10-List: Straightening warped pieces? I don't know how much is too much, but yeah, that's how those parts come. They'll be fine. You can flatten them out if you try. I wouldn't stress too much over it...If you can flatten them so the holes match, it'll all be ok. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive Chris Colohan wrote: > I've finally convinced myself I can build an RV-10, and have received my > tailcone kit this week. > > I finished inventory, then started looking at the pieces for the > vertical stabilizer. I noticed that the VS-1008 rear spar doubler > and VS-1014 L+R rear spar caps were both somewhat warped. The warp in > the spar caps is mentioned in the plans, where they say to clamp it down > to avoid the warp -- but there is no mention of a warp in the spar > doubler. It bows up about 3/16" when I lay it on a flat table. > > It looks like the warp is caused by the punching process. I can flatten > it out by clamping it down to the spar, but worry that building a plane > with internal static stress is not the Right Thing To Do. > > Should I be worried about this and try to remove the warp? Or should I > just rely on the fact that it flattens out when I cleco it to the spar? > > Or, phrased differently: how much warp in a part pre-assembly is "too > much"? > > Chris > > (still working through questions which I suspect are old hat to all of > you...) > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:47:17 AM PST US From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Lighter/Accessory sockets Looks like Aerocraft also carries them for $30... Page 31.. http://www.aerocraftparts.com/images/Catalog-Auto/Electrical-Pages20-35.pdf Michael From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 5:32 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Lighter/Accessory sockets Tim, These are the nicest ones we've installed. The cap flips open and rotates 360* so you can usually get it to a position that works well with any adapt er. They look really nice, the orange collar is lit and it glows so you ca n find it in the dark. It's a Volkswagen part (Audi if it goes on a Lancair ;-) but we get these f rom Lancair for $35. Order P/N 901-0030 and 901-0031 (body and collar). I 've tried finding them elsewhere but I haven't found them for more convenie ntly (Stein???). Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 95076 831-722-9141 Shop 831-750-0284 Cell On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Tim Olson > wrote: 0.com>> For years now I've hated my accessory outlet covers. They're rubber, with a nub of a handle sticking up. The caps like to pop out and not stay in place, and especially when I'm doing maintenance I have those stupid caps falling out under my a$$ as I climb around. I've seen nice lighter outlets with no-smoking symbols on them, and even in my car I have one with a nice low-profile flip up cap. Does anyone have a source for some nice ones that are flat/flush, and look nice, and the plug stays in well? I found some flat rubber plug ones at an auto parts store, but if I'm going to replace them I'd like to just see what's the nicest looking available. -- Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:48 AM PST US From: John Gonzalez Subject: RE: RV10-List: Engine mounts So well written Subject: RE: RV10-List: Engine mounts From: johnwcox@pacificnw.com Got mine cleaned this AM. Your wake-up pics are sending me back to the bui ld process on the RV-10. Both technologies are worth the investment. Buil d it for life=2C maintain it to last forever! Both smiles can be considere d priceless. John Cox do not archive From: John Gonzalez Sent: Thu 2/11/2010 7:48 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Engine mounts Thanks Rick for the kind words. You are lucky you found a good dentist...things have changed in this day an age of dentists who promote themselves through advertising and ridiculous reality television shows that resemble music videos. These vehicles say not hing about quality or longevity and cater to the want it yesterday crowd. M any of these dentist if they tried to build a plane it would fall apart bef ore it got into the air. At 43=2C I know older dentists that still are doin g it and doing it better than many of the people in my age group and younge r. That is what is so beautiful about these plane builds=2C not only does it t ake craftsmanship and intelligent=2C but persistence=2C and the where with all to see it to completion. It is contrary to the want it yesterday mental ity of our culture. We builders are few and far between=2C like the last of the Jedi. It makes me want to build a plans built Long Ez from nothing oth er than drawings=2C foam=2C resin and glass fiber. Those folks were truly a special breed. Those photos were showing a stage in the process of implant retained dentur es were the bar stays in the mouth and the denture clips into it. As for poorly build aircraft that John Cox was referring(periodontal diseas e) vs the RV10: It is refurbishment with new technology in old aircraft. So me might ask whether such an aircraft project is worth it. With health care that is rarely debated especially if you are the one the work is for. They have few choices left for all those years of forgetting to take care of th emselves. But then that is what is helping me to pay for my plane. Weird wo rld. All you builder=2C congratulation to you for seeing the joy in the journey and forgoing the easy want it yesterday way of life. Keep pluggin! Subject: Re: RV10-List: Engine mounts From: ricksked@cox.net Wow...I have a friend who is a Dentist and builds record breaking model hyd roplanes... His machine work is eye watering...The crown he made for me is still going strong almost 20 years later...says a lot about attention to de tail...I've followed your posts and pics John...needless to say your RV-10 will have the same craftsmanship..I always thought I would be a good Dentis t...but then I see some poorly taken care of choppers...aka 'green rotted t eeth" and I have second thoughts..about my ability to stomach that...great work=2C is that an implant tooth system? Rick Sked N246RS. Do not archive Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T From: John Gonzalez Subject: RV10-List: Engine mounts Believe it or not=2C there are days at my work where I am thinking about th e similarities of what I do for a living and what I do on my Fridays=2C Sat urdays=2C and Sundays. What type of engine mount is this? What are the torgue values which are used for these screws/bolts. Torque is in Newton Centimeters=2C not Ft/lbs or inch/lbs or Newton/meters Oh=2C and the torgue wrenches I use=2C they are about 2.5 inches in length =2C are extremely crude and cost about $600.00. What a joke. JOhn=B7=9B~=89=ED=B2=2C=DE=D9=CA%=A2=BD4=D3M4}=A7=1Er=8B=AB=89=EA=E7{=07 (=BA=B8=9E=AD8^E]t.+-=12f=A2=94Z+=BAe=2Cz=D8^1=ABk=A2x=9C=B0=B8=AC=B4W=9A =B6=EA=DE=B0=D6=AF=8A=06=AD=A2=BBhn=BA0=B1=EBazf=A7=C8=B8=AC=B6=EBb'+bz =CB.r=16=AC.+-R=7F=D2=B9=BB=1C=AE*m=8A=89=C0=AD=C8b=BD=E4=9Ej=B7!=0E=8C'' =86=9D=EC6=B2=06=BA0=B1=E0=A1j=D1@@=F8h=B6=8B!j=B7=9A=9D=D9=AEr=19=AEr=19 =A8=AD=E6=A1=AD=E7=E1=B6=DA=7F=FF 0=99=ABk=A2x=9C=B1=CA&=FC=D6=AF=8A=06=AD =A2=B4U=D7B=B2=D8m=B6=9F=FF=C3 &j=DA=E8=9E'=2Cr=895=AB=81=ABh=AD =15u=D0=B8=AC=B7=F6=8C=014N4=92X@E9=15 I&z =DEj=D7(=9E=D7=A7=B5=A9l =A1=AB=DA=8AV=9B-=EBj=D8^Y=E6=C5=A2=BB=B1=A8ky=F8m=B6=9F=FF~=8A=EE =9A=C9=9A=B6=BA'=89=CB=1C=A2hm=B6=9F=FF~=8A=EE=9A=C9=9A=B6=BA'=89=CB=1C=A2o =DA.+- =89=ED=AE&=EE=B6*'Y=E6=D2=8A=D7=93=85=A9=E4=CA=8B=9F=A2=BC=A8=BA=B8 =1E=9D=EA=E8=BA=CB.=9A+=B4=C6=AD=B4:=DA'W=8B=8A=CB@vh=A7j=1A=DE~=1Bm =A7=FF=F0=C3 =9A=B6=BA'=89=CB=1C=A2o=DC=A2{k=89=BB=AD=8A=89=E1=B6=DA=7F=FF 0=99=ABk=A2x=9C=B1=CA&=FD=CA'=B6=B8=9B=BA=D8=A8=9F=F6o=F7=E8=9E=DF=E9=AD =EF=DB=A1=DC=86=D9=A5 get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List p://forums.matronics.com/ blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:04:03 AM PST US From: "Kent Ogden" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Straightening warped pieces? You will have to deal with this issue when you get to the F-1011C Horizontal Stab attach bars, they are also warped from the stamping process. You will need to put them in a vice (I padded the jaws with leftover pieces of J-stiffener which eliminated scratches quite well) and gently bash them with a rubber mallet to straighten them out. I am seeing the same issue right now with the aileron bracket spacers, they have a bend that won't straighten when clecoed together with the other bracket parts, which are much thinner and curve to match the spacer. I think I will straighten them as well. Kent Ogden #40710 Wings >>> 2/12/2010 9:42 AM >>> I straightened my warped pieces on the edge of the work bench. Don't overdo it trying to get them perfect. De-burr the edges and holes and it all pulls together when you cleco it together. David Clifford RV-10 In Progress Empennage Done Engine Overhauled & Pickled Closing up The Wings ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 7:26:00 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: RV10-List: Straightening warped pieces? I don't know how much is too much, but yeah, that's how those parts come. They'll be fine. You can flatten them out if you try. I wouldn't stress too much over it...If you can flatten them so the holes match, it'll all be ok. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive Chris Colohan wrote: > I've finally convinced myself I can build an RV-10, and have received my > tailcone kit this week. > > I finished inventory, then started looking at the pieces for the > vertical stabilizer. I noticed that the VS-1008 rear spar doubler > and VS-1014 L+R rear spar caps were both somewhat warped. The warp in > the spar caps is mentioned in the plans, where they say to clamp it down > to avoid the warp -- but there is no mention of a warp in the spar > doubler. It bows up about 3/16" when I lay it on a flat table. > > It looks like the warp is caused by the punching process. I can flatten > it out by clamping it down to the spar, but worry that building a plane > with internal static stress is not the Right Thing To Do. > > Should I be worried about this and try to remove the warp? Or should I > just rely on the fact that it flattens out when I cleco it to the spar? > > Or, phrased differently: how much warp in a part pre-assembly is "too > much"? > > Chris > > (still working through questions which I suspect are old hat to all of > you...) >= &= ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:43:56 AM PST US From: "John Cumins" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Riveting Help Larry I have been there my self, a old friend of mine with over 40 years of sheet metal experience stated that it was due to the rivet gun needs more solid holding against the manufacture head of the rivet, the rivet set you are using has a spring built in it and the set is bouncing off the rivet just slightly. He said not more pressure just more control over the gun and the set. It worked great for me once I figured it out, Contact me off list if you like and I will be glad to explain it to you better, John -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Rosen Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 7:50 PM Subject: RV10-List: Riveting Help I just set a row of -3 flush rivets. The shop heads are fine, but the manufactured head has a slight mushroom shape. Just not flat like the rest of the rivets that I have set. I am using a 3x rivet gun with a swivel flush set. What have I done wrong? Too much pressure on the bucking bar? Not enough air pressure to the rivet gun? Your incites are appreciated. Larry Rosen ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:32:41 AM PST US From: Michael Kraus Subject: Re: RV10-List: Riveting Help Like he mentioned, push harder on the gun side than the bucking bar side. Make sure you gun pressure is not too hard. I adjust the pressure so it takes about 1 full second to just set the rivet properly..... Sent from my iPhone On Feb 12, 2010, at 12:38 PM, "John Cumins" wrote: > > Larry I have been there my self, a old friend of mine with over 40 > years of > sheet metal experience stated that it was due to the rivet gun needs > more > solid holding against the manufacture head of the rivet, the rivet > set you > are using has a spring built in it and the set is bouncing off the > rivet > just slightly. > > He said not more pressure just more control over the gun and the set. > > It worked great for me once I figured it out, > > Contact me off list if you like and I will be glad to explain it to > you > better, > > > John > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Rosen > Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 7:50 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: Riveting Help > > > I just set a row of -3 flush rivets. The shop heads are fine, but the > manufactured head has a slight mushroom shape. Just not flat like the > rest of the rivets that I have set. I am using a 3x rivet gun with a > swivel flush set. > > What have I done wrong? > Too much pressure on the bucking bar? > Not enough air pressure to the rivet gun? > > Your incites are appreciated. > > Larry Rosen > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:13:02 PM PST US From: "Marcus Cooper" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: New Door Latch Video S.B. replacement Piling on to the interested in getting one list, phenomenal design!!! Probably more inclined to go with the 90 degree kit for your planning. Thanks, Marcus Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Strasnuts Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 12:37 AM Subject: RV10-List: Re: New Door Latch Video S.B. replacement For all of you that are close to installing the doors and want my system, don't cut your rack gears from Vans where they tell you. Cut them in half, right down the middle or wait for the instructions with my kit. This way I (or you)can make 180 degrees of travel on your handle. Retrofit kits will have the option of buying 90 degree kits for already cut racks or 180 degree kits that include new racks for the handles. The 180 degree kits will cost a little extra for the material. For those of you who want retrofit kits you will have to decide on whether you want the door to be pulled in before pin penetration and 1-1/4 of pin travel past the door or 90 degree kits that hold the door closed and tight in the middle preventing bulging and the same pin extension. -------- Cust. #40936 RV-10 SB Fuselage N801VR reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285181#285181 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:50:57 PM PST US From: DLIUDVINAITIS@aol.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: Riveting Help LARRY, SOUNDS LIKE TO MUCH BOUNCE ON MACHINING SIDE. SET YOUR GUN PRESSURE TO 35-45 PSI, USE LITTLE PRESSURE @ MANUFACTURE HEAD SIDE NOT TO BOUNCE ON THE PRETTY SIDE, HOLD YOUR BUCKING BAR FLAT TO MACHINED HEAD AND APPLY SLIGHT PRESSURE AND CONTROL. PULL TRIGGER WITH SLIGHT BURST, ITS ABOUT CONTROL OVER THE BOUNCE. I LIKE TO USE A SMALL BUCKING BAR AND 45 PSI WITH MY 3X GUN WITH FLUSH SET RUBBER PROTECTED. DAVE, #40466 CENTRAL NJ, BLM In a message dated 2/11/2010 9:53:29 P.M. Central Standard Time, N205EN@gmail.com writes: --> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen I just set a row of -3 flush rivets. The shop heads are fine, but the manufactured head has a slight mushroom shape. Just not flat like the rest of the rivets that I have set. I am using a 3x rivet gun with a swivel flush set. What have I done wrong? Too much pressure on the bucking bar? Not enough air pressure to the rivet gun? Your incites are appreciated. Larry Rosen ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:48:09 PM PST US From: "Patrick ONeill" Subject: RV10-List: RV 10 - Emp + QB Fuse for sale RV-10 Quick Build Fuselage and mostly completed Empennage for sale. Price $16,500. I can no longer store this at home and have been dragging my feet on what to do with it. I need to commit to long term storage in the next few weeks so I'm putting it up for sale in the mean time. Empennage is mostly complete aside from final fitting to and some trim tab work. Tailcone is attached to fuse with a little work performed past that point. Build is stock. Most tail parts alodined, most parts of entire build primed with akzo. Cabin floors removed for priming and sound insulation installation. Otherwise build is stock according to plans. I do not have the expertise available for shipping this so buyer must make all shipping arrangements. Project location is in Orange County Southern California. Detailed photos of the complete build are available here: http://noimnotcrazy.com/gallery/ If not sold in the next few weeks I will have to make long term storage arrangements and the project will no longer be available for sale. Interested parties please contact off list. Do not archive Best Regards, Patrick ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:51:07 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Straightening warped pieces? From: "rv10flyer" Keep pressure applied to the piece in the direction you want to bend then use deadblow hammer and hit within an inch or two of the vise or table that it is clamped to. Then move piece in vise or on table an inch or two at a time until it is straight. You will use this method as I did on the 8' tailcone longerons to put a 2 degree bend in them. Of course you will only hit in one place. Works well. -------- Wayne Gillispie A&P 5/93, PPC 10/08 Grayson, KY Bldr# 40983 Ordered complete kit 8/24/09 DB Schenker delivered 11/20/09 Starting empennage 12/01/09 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286241#286241 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.