Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:24 AM - Thermozite in the Tunnel... (Perry, Phil)
2. 10:57 AM - Re: Thermozite in the Tunnel... (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
3. 12:15 PM - Re: Thermozite in the Tunnel... (tsts4)
4. 12:46 PM - Re: Re: Thermozite in the Tunnel... (Perry, Phil)
5. 12:58 PM - Re: Thermozite in the Tunnel... (William Curtis)
6. 01:22 PM - Re: Re: Thermozite in the Tunnel... (DLM)
7. 01:35 PM - FW: Re: Thermozite in the Tunnel... (DLM)
8. 02:00 PM - Re: Re: Thermozite in the Tunnel... (Perry, Phil)
9. 02:35 PM - Re: Re: Thermozite in the Tunnel... (PJ Seipel)
10. 03:39 PM - Re: Re: Thermozite in the Tunnel... (DLM)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Thermozite in the Tunnel... |
For those of you who are wanting to use Thermozite in the tunnel, you
should watch this video I shot last night.
Thermozite is the material that is sold by Flight line Interiors as an
insulator. I think it would be a great insulator in the right
application such as under carpet, etc... But it's certainly a terrible
choice to put in the tunnel (unless you like to roast marshmallows or
choke on fumes.) J
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4mG7qAGdBc
At this point, I'll probably not insulate the inside of the tunnel at
all. I'll probably insulate the forward side of the firewall and/or
simply firesleeve the fuel lines in the tunnel.
I do like the idea of the extinguisher under the cowl though. As long
as those heater vents are close (or not warped) when you mash the big
red button.
Phil
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| Subject: | Thermozite in the Tunnel... |
Good video Phil but doesn't surprise me much. I don't believe it is intend
ed to withstand the heat from a fuel fed fire, just to block radiant heat.
I've been considering using either the HeatShield Mat or Lava Mat from Hea
tShield products. The latter can withstand 1100 degrees of direct heat.
http://heatshieldproducts.com/heat_shield_mat.php
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 12:21 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Thermozite in the Tunnel...
For those of you who are wanting to use Thermozite in the tunnel, you shoul
d watch this video I shot last night.
Thermozite is the material that is sold by Flight line Interiors as an insu
lator. I think it would be a great insulator in the right application such
as under carpet, etc... But it's certainly a terrible choice to put in th
e tunnel (unless you like to roast marshmallows or choke on fumes.) :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4mG7qAGdBc
At this point, I'll probably not insulate the inside of the tunnel at all.
I'll probably insulate the forward side of the firewall and/or simply fire
sleeve the fuel lines in the tunnel.
I do like the idea of the extinguisher under the cowl though. As long as t
hose heater vents are close (or not warped) when you mash the big red butto
n.
Phil
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| Subject: | Re: Thermozite in the Tunnel... |
Well IMO, if you've got a fuel fire in the tunnel, the composition of any insulation
in there is the least of your worries. I don't see why putting that stuff
in the tunnel would really be any worse than any other place inside the cabin
as leaking fuel could easily spread under the seats/floorboards/carpet, etc.
Totally agree that it would be a bad choice for the engine side of the firewall.
--------
Todd Stovall
728TT (reserved)
RV-10 Empacone, Wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293383#293383
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| Subject: | Re: Thermozite in the Tunnel... |
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| Subject: | Re: Thermozite in the Tunnel... |
Me thinks if you use this or any insulator to reduce or contain ambient hea
t
in the tunnel or cabin side of the firewall, you are probably OK. If
however you have to contend with multi thousand degree heat on the tunnel o
r
firewall for any sustained period, you have MUCH bigger concerns--primary o
f
which is to get the plane down and out of it. You don't care what happens
after because the insurance company now owns it.
Many planes have been flying around with nothing on the firewall. Most
anything is better than nothing, but you also don't need to line your tunne
l
or firewall with space shuttle heat tiles or equivalent.
--
William
N40237 - http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Perry, Phil <Phil.Perry@netapp.com> wrote:
> For those of you who are wanting to use Thermozite in the tunnel, you
> should watch this video I shot last night.
>
>
> Thermozite is the material that is sold by Flight line Interiors as an
> insulator. I think it would be a great insulator in the right applicatio
n
> such as under carpet, etc=85 But it=92s certainly a terrible choice to p
ut in
> the tunnel (unless you like to roast marshmallows or choke on fumes.) J
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4mG7qAGdBc
>
>
> At this point, I=92ll probably not insulate the inside of the tunnel at a
ll.
> I=92ll probably insulate the forward side of the firewall and/or simply
> firesleeve the fuel lines in the tunnel.
>
>
> I do like the idea of the extinguisher under the cowl though. As long as
> those heater vents are close (or not warped) when you mash the big red
> button.
>
>
> Phil
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Thermozite in the Tunnel... |
For those concerned about fire, you should consider a fire bottle. Mine
does not, but could be plumbed into the tunnel also. Mine will flood the
engine compartment and aft of the baffles with 15 pounds of Halon gas.
First order of business is fuel selector to OFF and pull the pin and
push the fire handle. For carbureted engines plumb a line into the
carburetor air intake.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 12:46 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Thermozite in the Tunnel...
It's a lousy choice for the interior side too. What was demonstrated
was a fuel fire on the forward side and the radiated heat caught the
interior insulation on fire.
The stainless firewall will do great blocking flames, but its a great
material for conducting heat straight through to the other side.
The concept is that it doesn't make sense to put a flammable item on the
aft side of the firewall. If you have a fire on the engine side, you'll
have a fire on the interior side too and your firewall is worthless at
that point.
I've seen Thermozite insulating many tunnels and it's something everyone
needs to think about.
Its pretty lousy for any fire related protection. It needs to be used as
a light weight thermal barrier only. Anything else is playing with fire.
:)
Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: tsts4 <tsts4@verizon.net>
Sent: Wed Apr 07 12:14:07 2010
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Thermozite in the Tunnel...
Well IMO, if you've got a fuel fire in the tunnel, the composition of
any insulation in there is the least of your worries. I don't see why
putting that stuff in the tunnel would really be any worse than any
other place inside the cabin as leaking fuel could easily spread under
the seats/floorboards/carpet, etc. Totally agree that it would be a bad
choice for the engine side of the firewall.
--------
Todd Stovall
728TT (reserved)
RV-10 Empacone, Wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293383#293383
=EF=BD=EF=BD~=EF=BD=EF=BD,=03g=EF=BD=EF=BD
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Thermozite in the Tunnel... |
_____
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net]
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 1:19 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Thermozite in the Tunnel...
For those concerned about fire, you should consider a fire bottle. Mine
does not, but could be plumbed into the tunnel also. Mine will flood the
engine compartment and aft of the baffles with 15 pounds of Halon gas.
First order of business is fuel selector to OFF and pull the pin and
push the fire handle. For carbureted engines plumb a line into the
carburetor air intake.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 12:46 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Thermozite in the Tunnel...
It's a lousy choice for the interior side too. What was demonstrated
was a fuel fire on the forward side and the radiated heat caught the
interior insulation on fire.
The stainless firewall will do great blocking flames, but its a great
material for conducting heat straight through to the other side.
The concept is that it doesn't make sense to put a flammable item on the
aft side of the firewall. If you have a fire on the engine side, you'll
have a fire on the interior side too and your firewall is worthless at
that point.
I've seen Thermozite insulating many tunnels and it's something everyone
needs to think about.
Its pretty lousy for any fire related protection. It needs to be used as
a light weight thermal barrier only. Anything else is playing with fire.
:)
Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: tsts4 <tsts4@verizon.net>
Sent: Wed Apr 07 12:14:07 2010
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Thermozite in the Tunnel...
Well IMO, if you've got a fuel fire in the tunnel, the composition of
any insulation in there is the least of your worries. I don't see why
putting that stuff in the tunnel would really be any worse than any
other place inside the cabin as leaking fuel could easily spread under
the seats/floorboards/carpet, etc. Totally agree that it would be a bad
choice for the engine side of the firewall.
--------
Todd Stovall
728TT (reserved)
RV-10 Empacone, Wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293383#293383
=EF=BD=EF=BD~=EF=BD=EF=BD,=03g=EF=BD=EF=BD
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Thermozite in the Tunnel... |
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Thermozite in the Tunnel... |
I'll play devil's advocate here on one aspect of your test.
No argument that a fuel fed fire is probably going to cause the
insulation to break down and produce fumes; at that point, so is the
melting wiring in your panel, your seats, and anything else that's
getting that hot.
I would argue that it might not have been the radiant heat that caused
it to catch fire, however, but the fumes that drifted around the sides
of your tiny piece of aluminum and right into the giant flame on your torch.
You might (or might not) see a different result with a much larger piece
of aluminum such that the fumes are not drifting directly into the
ignition source.
PJ Seipel
RV-10 #40032
On 4/7/2010 3:46 PM, Perry, Phil wrote:
> It's a lousy choice for the interior side too. What was demonstrated
> was a fuel fire on the forward side and the radiated heat caught the
> interior insulation on fire.
>
> The stainless firewall will do great blocking flames, but its a great
> material for conducting heat straight through to the other side.
>
> The concept is that it doesn't make sense to put a flammable item on the
> aft side of the firewall. If you have a fire on the engine side, you'll
> have a fire on the interior side too and your firewall is worthless at
> that point.
>
> I've seen Thermozite insulating many tunnels and it's something everyone
> needs to think about.
>
> Its pretty lousy for any fire related protection. It needs to be used as
> a light weight thermal barrier only. Anything else is playing with fire. :)
>
> Phil
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: tsts4 <tsts4@verizon.net>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wed Apr 07 12:14:07 2010
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Thermozite in the Tunnel...
>
>
> Well IMO, if you've got a fuel fire in the tunnel, the composition of
> any insulation in there is the least of your worries. I don't see why
> putting that stuff in the tunnel would really be any worse than any
> other place inside the cabin as leaking fuel could easily spread under
> the seats/floorboards/carpet, etc. Totally agree that it would be a bad
> choice for the engine side of the firewall.
>
> --------
> Todd Stovall
> 728TT (reserved)
> RV-10 Empacone, Wings
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293383#293383
>
>
> ~,gM4Gqz.'8E]t.+-fZ+`axr^jzZ(j|n)b'!j'+ry'C
> {
> ,x(ZP!jrrj|-&j',r5hum
> 'ojj+E]t.+-08IaT1
> jgrz{Zi^&lZ+ky+k&j',r+k&j',rhB{ky.+jY^.+-i0fr((nbxm-&j',rr&*''k{w/tml
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Thermozite in the Tunnel... |
I think a person will know about the fire in the engine compartment
(engine instruments) before anything starts melting out there. If you
get smoke in the heat ducts close them, shut off the fuel and fire the
bottle. Most Halon will be expended in the engine compartment. The
sprayers can be tailored for flow. Certainly Halon is not something to
breath but a little beats a lot of smoke and CO. I don't have the
statistics but I believe that cabin fires are usually started by smokers
or electrical shorts. Engine fires are fuel fed forward of the firewall.
On that basis I do not allow smoking in the aircraft; all appliances are
on individual breakers to quickly shutoff power to a failed circuit. and
a fire bottle can be used to cool and snuff out an engine fire.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 1:58 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Thermozite in the Tunnel...
Hey David,
What about the heater boxes? Having halon in the cabin (or tunnel)
concerns me.
I'd like to put one in, but just want to make sure I understand the
risks before making a decision.
Phil
_____
From: DLM <dlm46007@cox.net>
Sent: Wed Apr 07 13:32:06 2010
Subject: FW: RV10-List: Re: Thermozite in the Tunnel...
_____
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net]
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 1:19 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Thermozite in the Tunnel...
For those concerned about fire, you should consider a fire bottle. Mine
does not, but could be plumbed into the tunnel also. Mine will flood the
engine compartment and aft of the baffles with 15 pounds of Halon gas.
First order of business is fuel selector to OFF and pull the pin and
push the fire handle. For carbureted engines plumb a line into the
carburetor air intake.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 12:46 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Thermozite in the Tunnel...
It's a lousy choice for the interior side too. What was demonstrated
was a fuel fire on the forward side and the radiated heat caught the
interior insulation on fire.
The stainless firewall will do great blocking flames, but its a great
material for conducting heat straight through to the other side.
The concept is that it doesn't make sense to put a flammable item on the
aft side of the firewall. If you have a fire on the engine side, you'll
have a fire on the interior side too and your firewall is worthless at
that point.
I've seen Thermozite insulating many tunnels and it's something everyone
needs to think about.
Its pretty lousy for any fire related protection. It needs to be used as
a light weight thermal barrier only. Anything else is playing with fire.
:)
Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: tsts4 <tsts4@verizon.net>
Sent: Wed Apr 07 12:14:07 2010
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Thermozite in the Tunnel...
Well IMO, if you've got a fuel fire in the tunnel, the composition of
any insulation in there is the least of your worries. I don't see why
putting that stuff in the tunnel would really be any worse than any
other place inside the cabin as leaking fuel could easily spread under
the seats/floorboards/carpet, etc. Totally agree that it would be a bad
choice for the engine side of the firewall.
--------
Todd Stovall
728TT (reserved)
RV-10 Empacone, Wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293383#293383
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