Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:46 AM - Fuel Lines (Les Kearney)
2. 06:15 AM - Workbenches (Les Kearney)
3. 06:59 AM - Re: Vettermans plans (Eric_Kallio)
4. 07:37 AM - Re: Fuel Lines (Michael Kraus)
5. 07:45 AM - FWF included items (John Gonzalez)
6. 07:49 AM - Re: Fuel Lines (Kelly McMullen)
7. 07:51 AM - rivets at bottom, center of fuse/firewall interface (John Gonzalez)
8. 08:03 AM - Re: FWF included items (Kelly McMullen)
9. 08:25 AM - Re: Fuel Lines (Bob and Karen Brown)
10. 08:35 AM - Re: Fuel Lines (Les Kearney)
11. 08:38 AM - Re: FWF included items (Bob Leffler)
12. 09:44 AM - Re: Workbenches (and other stuff I know now...) (Chris Colohan)
13. 10:06 AM - Re: FWF included items (Jim Berry)
14. 10:16 AM - Re: rivets at bottom, center of fuse/firewall interface (Jim Berry)
15. 11:22 AM - Re: It was warm yesterday, but that's ridiculous! (woxofswa)
16. 12:43 PM - Re: Fuel Lines (Perry, Phil)
17. 02:13 PM - Re: Tools (Kelly McMullen)
18. 05:35 PM - Re: Workbenches (and other stuff I know now...) (Jeff Carpenter)
19. 05:44 PM - Re: Workbenches (and other stuff I know now...) (Ron Walker)
20. 06:38 PM - Re: Workbenches (and other stuff I know now...) (Tony Woods)
21. 06:38 PM - Re: Workbenches (and other stuff I know now...) (Tony Woods)
22. 11:34 PM - Re: rivets at bottom, center of fuse/firewall interface (AirMike)
23. 11:42 PM - Re: Fuel Lines (AirMike)
Message 1
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Hi
I am planning on installing Bonoco Inc steel braided fel lines in lieu of
the soft aluminium lines spec'd by Vans. I am wondering if anyone else has
done this and if so how the the fuselage passthrough to the wing was
handled. It would seem that one otion is to use a bulkhead fitting at the
fuselage which would make the connection to the wing vey simnple.
Alternatively a single run of fuel line fom the fuel valve to the wing is
also an option.
Thoughts . comments anyone?
Cheers
Les
#40643 - Systems / Wiring / Finishing
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Tony
This link : ( http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/worktabl/worktabl.htm )
will take you the plans for the "official" EAA workbenches (if there is such
a thing. I put mine on heavy duty wheels (lockable) so I could move it
around easily. They are very strong, dirt cheap to make and entirely
functional. I put MDF on the top of mine as it is soft and there are no
splinters to worry about. I made two and, on occasion, clamped them together
to make a single large surface.
If you alter the dimensions of the plans, you can make smaller (or full size
if space permits) work benches to hold some of your power tools such as band
saw, drill press and grinder.
I found a table top belt sander / disk sander to be invaluable. I learned
from experience that when making long straight cuts on the band saw, it was
better to cut proud of the cut line and then use the sander to take the
material down to the cut line.
This dimpler:
http://www.averytools.com/pc-619-84-drdt-2-hand-dimpling-tool.aspx is
absolute gold. It is much faster and easier to dimple using this tool. I
can't imagine building without it.
When mounting my gear, I placed the whole fuselage (without the tail) on a
table. I used an engine crane to lift it. It was the perfect height to allow
the gear legs to be installed safely.
When you get you kit(s), keep the Styrofoam sheets, or a least some of it,
to put under large components during assembly.
I also made, using 2X4's and MDF, a large dolly for the fuse once I moved
into the "boat" phase. It was 4' wide and about 6' long. It also was on
castoring wheels.
I am a big fan of MDF as it is perfectly flat, cheap and doesn't splinter.
Cheers
Les
#40643
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rwendell@hydro-splash.com
Sent: April-17-10 5:17 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Firewall access
I went with 4x8
------Original Message------
From: Tony Woods
Sender: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
ReplyTo: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Firewall access
Sent: Apr 17, 2010 3:00 AM
Hey all.
This sounds like a stupid question, but I'm about to start work on my
empennage in a few weeks and am getting my workshop sorted out.
I've got a good set of tools coming from PlaneTools, but am wondering about
setting up a work bench. How big? I'm going to build the bench from
scratch, so wondering how wide and long would be good, since I can make it
any dimension then I might as well make it right...
Tony Woods
Not started anything yet!!
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Vettermans plans |
I was able to figure it out with a little head scratching and some pics from a
build log. I wish I could remember whose so I could give credit, but I forgot.
Eric
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=294646#294646
Message 4
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I would recommend using the soft aluminum lines. A lot cheaper and
last longer. In fact, you could buy the flaring tools, all fittings,
and the aluminum lines cheaper than the flexible lines...
One suggestion would be to split the line from the fuel valve to the
tanks into 2 lines and use a 90 degree bulkhead fitting as they pass
thru the tunnel walls. Then you basically have 2 straight runs vs. 1
complex run. Just my opinion.... I can send Picts if you'd like to
see how I did it.
-Mike
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 18, 2010, at 8:45 AM, "Les Kearney" <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> I am planning on installing Bonoco Inc steel braided fel lines in
> lieu of the soft aluminium lines spec'd by Vans. I am wondering if
> anyone else has done this and if so how the the fuselage passthrough
> to the wing was handled. It would seem that one otion is to use a
> bulkhead fitting at the fuselage which would make the connection to
> the wing vey simnple. Alternatively a single run of fuel line fom
> the fuel valve to the wing is also an option.
>
> Thoughts . comments anyone?
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
> #40643 - Systems / Wiring / Finishing
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | FWF included items |
When I am looking at Van's website for what is included on the FWF kit=2C i
t is different than what I received from them.
I seem to be missing a gascolator and a starter solenoid(contactor).
Reviewing the paper work that comes with the FWF kit=2C I do not see that e
ither of these items are included.
I would think that since the FWF kit for the 10 is the most expensive of al
l the planes=2C and if these items are included for the other planes=2C as
is stated on the web site=2C why not for the 10???
JOhn #409Engine and gear about ready to come off so the plane can be extrac
ted from by basement.
Message 6
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I think you are getting into esoterics of fuel line life. Standard
aircraft fuel lines when in wings/fuselage and not exposed to engine
temps or outside air last a very long time. I replaced one that likely
was OEM 40 yrs old last year. Yes, it was hard, no it was not anywhere
close to risk of failing, it just connected two aluminum lines
together and was a "while you are there might as well" deals.
Personally, I'd expect any fuel line inside the fuselage, protected,
to last longer than you will own/fly the aircraft. One can go to the
braided stainless lines and have very long life, or make them lifetime
by getting teflon core hoses. It becomes what your time is worth type
of exercise more than what is cheapest or more durable. If your time
is worth $10 an hour, you can make and remake a lot of soft lines. If
your time is worth $50 an hour, it becomes more of an even trade off.
On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 6:35 AM, Michael Kraus
<n223rv@wolflakeairport.net> wrote:
> I would recommend using the soft aluminum lines. A lot cheaper and last
> longer. In fact, you could buy the flaring tools, all fittings, and the
> aluminum lines cheaper than the flexible lines...
> One suggestion would be to split the line from the fuel valve to the tanks
> into 2 lines and use a 90 degree bulkhead fitting as they pass thru the
> tunnel walls. Then you basically have 2 straight runs vs. 1 complex run.
> Just my opinion.... I can send Picts if you'd like to see how I did it.
> -Mike
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 18, 2010, at 8:45 AM, "Les Kearney" <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>
> Hi
>
> I am planning on installing Bonoco Inc steel braided fel lines in lieu of
> the soft aluminium lines spec'd by Vans. I am wondering if anyone else has
> done this and if so how the the fuselage passthrough to the wing was
> handled. It would seem that one otion is to use a bulkhead fitting at the
> fuselage which would make the connection to the wing vey simnple.
> Alternatively a single run of fuel line fom the fuel valve to the wing is
> also an option.
>
> Thoughts . comments anyone?
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
> #40643 - Systems / Wiring / Finishing
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | rivets at bottom, center of fuse/firewall interface |
As I recal=2C the plans called for not riveting the center 8-10 rivets at t
he above described location. The center hole is reserved for the bracket wh
ich helps support the cowling=2C but why did they leave the other holes not
rivetted?
The nose gear=2C main gear and engine are coming off so I can remove the fu
se from my basement=2C and these rivets can only be placed with the nose ge
ar off=2C so is now the time to set these rivets?
Thanks=2C
John
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: FWF included items |
Both the starter relay and the master relay are in the electrical kit.
Don't know about gascolator, as I am not that far along.
You can get starter relay cheaper at Spruce, master a few bucks more
than Van's price. Really a question of which is easier for you to get
order from. Should be under $50 for both, with shipping.
Kelly
#40866
On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 7:45 AM, John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo@msn.com> wrote:
> When I am looking at Van's website for what is included on the FWF kit, it
> is different than what I received from them.
> I seem to be missing a gascolator and a starter solenoid(contactor).
> Reviewing the paper work that comes with the FWF kit, I do not see that
> either of these items are included.
> I would think that since the FWF kit for the 10 is the most expensive of all
> the planes, and if these items are included for the other planes, as is
> stated on the web site, why not for the 10???
> JOhn #409
> Engine and gear about ready to come off so the plane can be extracted from
> by basement.
>
>
Message 9
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Agreed. The braided flex lines offered by Bonaco are generally Teflon lines
and I would expect would outlast the airframe.
Bob Brown
40871
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Lines
I think you are getting into esoterics of fuel line life. Standard
aircraft fuel lines when in wings/fuselage and not exposed to engine
temps or outside air last a very long time. I replaced one that likely
was OEM 40 yrs old last year. Yes, it was hard, no it was not anywhere
close to risk of failing, it just connected two aluminum lines
together and was a "while you are there might as well" deals.
Personally, I'd expect any fuel line inside the fuselage, protected,
to last longer than you will own/fly the aircraft. One can go to the
braided stainless lines and have very long life, or make them lifetime
by getting teflon core hoses. It becomes what your time is worth type
of exercise more than what is cheapest or more durable. If your time
is worth $10 an hour, you can make and remake a lot of soft lines. If
your time is worth $50 an hour, it becomes more of an even trade off.
On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 6:35 AM, Michael Kraus
<n223rv@wolflakeairport.net> wrote:
> I would recommend using the soft aluminum lines. A lot cheaper and last
> longer. In fact, you could buy the flaring tools, all fittings, and the
> aluminum lines cheaper than the flexible lines...
> One suggestion would be to split the line from the fuel valve to the tanks
> into 2 lines and use a 90 degree bulkhead fitting as they pass thru the
> tunnel walls. Then you basically have 2 straight runs vs. 1 complex run.
> Just my opinion.... I can send Picts if you'd like to see how I did it.
> -Mike
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 18, 2010, at 8:45 AM, "Les Kearney" <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>
> Hi
>
> I am planning on installing Bonoco Inc steel braided fel lines in lieu of
> the soft aluminium lines spec'd by Vans. I am wondering if anyone else has
> done this and if so how the the fuselage passthrough to the wing was
> handled. It would seem that one otion is to use a bulkhead fitting at the
> fuselage which would make the connection to the wing vey simnple.
> Alternatively a single run of fuel line fom the fuel valve to the wing is
> also an option.
>
> Thoughts . comments anyone?
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
> #40643 - Systems / Wiring / Finishing
>
>
Message 10
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Mike
Perhaps I am being a bit anal, but I don't like soft AL lines in the
cockpit. While I am sure that the are serviceable, I don't don't think they
will stay intact during an accident if the cockpit was in any way deformed.
My thought is that a braided steel line might be a bit more forgiving.
I have seen pix of a light a/c that was consumed by fire and it is a very
sobering sight.
Cheers
Les
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Kraus
Sent: April-18-10 7:35 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Lines
I would recommend using the soft aluminum lines. A lot cheaper and last
longer. In fact, you could buy the flaring tools, all fittings, and the
aluminum lines cheaper than the flexible lines...
One suggestion would be to split the line from the fuel valve to the tanks
into 2 lines and use a 90 degree bulkhead fitting as they pass thru the
tunnel walls. Then you basically have 2 straight runs vs. 1 complex run.
Just my opinion.... I can send Picts if you'd like to see how I did it.
-Mike
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 18, 2010, at 8:45 AM, "Les Kearney" <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
Hi
I am planning on installing Bonoco Inc steel braided fel lines in lieu of
the soft aluminium lines spec'd by Vans. I am wondering if anyone else has
done this and if so how the the fuselage passthrough to the wing was
handled. It would seem that one otion is to use a bulkhead fitting at the
fuselage which would make the connection to the wing vey simnple.
Alternatively a single run of fuel line fom the fuel valve to the wing is
also an option.
Thoughts . comments anyone?
Cheers
Les
#40643 - Systems / Wiring / Finishing
Message 11
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| Subject: | FWF included items |
Van's just has a generic listing of what's in the FWF on their web site.
Last summer I requested a detail list from Vans for the RV-10. Here's what
they sent:
1.00 FF-10 IO-540 W/CT10-3 F.WALL FWD.KIT W/3LVR
3.00 CT A-740 BLACK PUSH PULL CABLE BLACK
2.00 DUCT CBT-5/8 COOLING BLAST TUBE
2.00 EA 4" DUCT HOSE CLAMP 4" HOSE CLAMP
1.00 EA CV HOSE 7545 BREATHER HOSE -540
6.00 EA GASKET 77611 BLO-PROOF EXHST GASKT
4.00 EA DYNA VI I(O)-540 VIB.ISO. RV-10 ONLY
1.00 EA OIL COOLER 20006A OIL COOLER I(O)-540
1.00 ES ALTERNATOR DELUXE 60A KIT W/OV PROTECT
1.00 FAB-360/540 FLTRD A/BOX-360 FI320
1.00 FF-1005 BREATHER TUBE
1.00 IE VMP INSTALL KIT FITTINGS/HOSES
1.00 PROP GOV MT P-860-3 I(O)-540 LYCOMING
1.00 VA-102 FUEL PRES. HOSE 15.5
1.00 VA-133 OIL PRESS. HOSE 27.25
1.00 VA-135 OIL COOLER HOSE 16.5
1.00 VA-168 SENDER MOUNT
1.00 VA-186 OIL COOLER BOX ASSY.
1.00 VA-187 4" FLANGED DUCT
1.00 VA-190 OIL COOLER HOSE 27"
1.00 BAF-10-540 BAFFLE KIT IO-540
1.00 PT-035X1/4X4' LO PRES-BRKE RES.TUBE
1.00 SS304-26GAX1/2X9 SCAT CLAMP !!SHARP!!
1.00 VENT SCAT 2X3' RED 2" SCAT 3' LONG
1.00 VENT SCAT 2X6' SCAT TUBE X 6 FT
1.00 VENT SCAT 4X16" 4" DIA. RED SCAT HOSE
1.00 EA DYNA BOLT I(O)-540 MOTOR MOUNT BOLT KIT
1.00 BAG 516 RIVET AN426AD3-3.5
1.00 BAG 517 RIVET AN426AD3-4
1.00 BAG 518 RIVET AN426AD4-4
1.00 BAG 519 RIVET AN426AD4-5
1.00 BAG 520 MISC. AN BOLTS
1.00 BAG 521 MISC. WASHERS
1.00 BAG 522-1 MISC. FITTINGS/CLAMPS
1.00 BAG 523-1 FITTINGS/MISC.
1.00 BAG 524 MISC. CLAMPS
1.00 BAG 525-1 MISC/BEARINGS
1.00 BAG 526-1 CABIN HEAT SHUTTLE HW
1.00 PT-062X1/4X24" HIGH PRESSURE
1.00 VA-182-PC KIT THR/MIX BKT IO VERT
1.00 VA-189 FUEL LINE IO-540 25.5
1.00 CT 10-3 QUADRANT KIT 3 LEVER KIT RV-10 540
1.00 DOC FF-IO-540 TEXT/DWGS RV-10 F.FWD
1.00 EA EXH 10 I(O)-540 I(O)-540 VETTERMAN
1.00 VA-138 FUEL SUPPLY HOSE 14.0
Bob
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:45 AM
Subject: RV10-List: FWF included items
When I am looking at Van's website for what is included on the FWF kit, it
is different than what I received from them.
I seem to be missing a gascolator and a starter solenoid(contactor).
Reviewing the paper work that comes with the FWF kit, I do not see that
either of these items are included.
I would think that since the FWF kit for the 10 is the most expensive of all
the planes, and if these items are included for the other planes, as is
stated on the web site, why not for the 10???
JOhn #409
Engine and gear about ready to come off so the plane can be extracted from
by basement.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Workbenches (and other stuff I know now...) |
When building that bench, make sure you use 2x4's that are _absolutely_
straight, and even better if they have also seasoned a few years (aka,
perfectly dry).
I bought the "premium" 2x4's at my local Home Depot, and found that after I
assembled my bench (with a 3/4" plywood top) there was a 1/8" to 3/16" warp
in the work surface. Not good. So I got some MDF, set it up perfectly flat
on top of the bench (using washers as shims), and screwed it down.
I'm still working on my tail section, but here are some random things I've
learned so far which I'll type up while they are still fresh in my mind:
- you can save gobs of money by buying tools used (vansairforce, local EAA
chapters, ebay). The problem is that when you are first starting you don't
know which cheap tools are a good deal, and which ones are cheap for a
reason. You also don't know which tools are "needed", and which ones are
more of a gimmick. (For example: what the heck is a "dimpling mallet"?
Why is it any better than a $3 rubber mallet from the local hardware
store?) On the other hand, some of my used tool buys are in the category of
"I'd have never thought to buy this one new" and yet is "OMG completely
invaluable" for certain operations.
- the two most expensive tools which folks rave about are the pneumatic
riveter, and the DTRT. Starting off, I'd save your money.
[most controversial sentence in this post...] I have borrowed a friend's
pnumatic, and it is amazingly fast. This will help you make mistakes
faster. Also, it is quite heavy and bulky, which means you really have to
plan out how you hold it and position it when getting into tight corners to
avoid mis-squeezing a rivet. When you are first starting, slow and careful
is the way to go, since mistakes take so long to fix. I have a normal
c-frame, and I am frankly somewhat baffled about the supposed speed
advantage of a DTRT. Dimpling with a c-frame and mallet is a fast and
pretty simple operation. I've hardly spent any time on it compared to all
the other work. Not what I'd optimize, IMHO.
- As a beginner, I've found that: (a) squeezing a rivet produces a better
result than backriveting which produces a better result than bucking it.
(b) it is hard to mess up a squeezed rivet or a backrivet. It is trivial
to mess up a bucked rivet. (c) squeezing a 3/32" rivet is easy. squeezing
a 1/8" rivet is a feat of strength I am not strong enough to do. Well --
this is true with both the Avery squeezer I borrowed from a friend, and the
old-school hand squeezer I bought used. I recently bought a Cleavland Main
Squeeze, and this thing is a work of art -- it makes squeezing perfect 1/8"
rivets absolutely trivial. I love this tool. (Sadly, it is expensive.)
The pneumatic also makes it possible for me to squeeze a 1/8" rivet, but it
is really finicky about positioning the ram to get it squeezed right,
heavier, and harder to position in awkward places. I find that I end up
with a better result using the main squeeze. (I could see how with practice
I'd get better with the pneumatic and it would be faster -- but I have time
to do things right...)
- It is easier to mess up a bucked rivet with too much air pressure than
with too little. Always start with too little and dial it up, not the
reverse.
- For your scotchbrite wheel you can mount it on a grinder or a buffer. I
bought a cheap grinder, which works. My friends bought a cheap buffer,
which has a longer shaft. I envy them, since they can get their wheel into
more tight places.
- Deburring the inside of lightening holes is a real pain. Until you get a
$30 die grinder from Home Depot and a 1" scotchbrite wheel -- then it
becomes easy (and incredibly noisy).
- Buy a cheap belt/disc sander. I got a combo 1" belt/5" disc sander from
Harbor Freight. It is _way_ better to cut outside a line and sand down than
to try and cut a line.
- Don't try to debur the edge of a skin just using a die grinder and
scotchbrite wheel. You will waste too much time, and burn through grinder
wheels like crazy. Easier is to: (a) use a regular file (not a vixen file!)
to get rid of the cut marks and make the edge flat. (b) then quickly run
the die grinder down the edge.
- For smoothing/deburring the cut edge of thicker pieces: start off with a
file (not a vixen file!). You will want some jeweler's files for getting
inside corners. This will get rid of the cut marks. Then use sandpaper (I
find that sanding sponges work well here). Then a quick buffing on the
scotchbrite wheel will polish it nice and smooth. You will get much worse
results if you go straight to the scotchbrite wheel (as I did the first time
I tried this).
- I haven't yet found a use for a vixen file. This tool appears to be made
for taking off aluminum quickly from rough-cut pieces. Most of the RV-10
that I've encountered so far is pre-cut pieces. My belt/disc sander works
better for me for getting edges down to a line.
- If you leave the blue plastic on pieces it helps stop you from scratching
the nice shiny alclad, and makes it prettier. I hear that if you leave this
stuff on too long it becomes a real pain to take off -- but I have not yet
had that problem, after 2 months. (Fingers crossed.)
- I got a pair of chucking reamers for match drilling the pre-drilled holes
(#30 and #40). As a result, I tend not to get burrs on holes. Well, I
still go through the motions of deburring, but for the life of me I can't
tell the difference in pre- and post-deburring of these holes. Perhaps I'm
doing something wrong, or perhaps using this tool means I don't have to
deburr.
- You can never have enough light in your workshop. If in doubt, put up
some more fluorescent strips.
- Join a local EAA chapter and visit a few builders, to see what they are
doing and get their advice.
- Take a SportAir workshop if you can. Working on aluminum which is Not
Your Plane lets you make your mistakes on stuff which doesn't matter.
- The vertical stabilizer nose-ribs are too long, and you will want to sand
1/8" off their tips to avoid denting the skin. Do this _before_ you
assemble it for the first time. (oops) Read Tim Olsen's site, which
contains this critical tip and others.
- When you go to put your vertical stabilizer skin on for the first test
fit, get a friend to help you wrestle it. This is a challenging thing to do
by yourself.
- When putting that vertical stabilizer skin on, pull out the fiberglass tip
fairings which are supposed to match it. You may have to coax the bend of
the front of the skin to match the bend at the nose of the fairing -- and
easier to do this while the skin is still not attached. (Yup, I never
thought of this one...)
- If the plans tell you not to dimple/match drill a hole, put tape over it
to remind you. You will forget. Even if you circle it in bright red marker
to remind yourself.
- _Always_ clamp down a part before riveting it, either with the squeezer or
the rivet gun. This will save you much grief.
- Speaking of which, the Irwin bar clamps (or similar) are absolutely
incredibly useful for clamping down random things to your bench while you
work on them. A few cleco clamps are also really useful to have.
- When inventorying your kit, check the formed parts for cracks. Never
thought of checking for this, and a cracked piece later slowed me down while
I waited for a replacement in the mail. (Double check part R-1004.)
- If you buy a two-part primer, and a "calibrated paint mixing cup", double
check that the calibration is accurate. My first batch of primer (and hence
the entire inside of my vertical stabilizer) had twice as much reducer than
it should have, since the calibrated scale was printed on the wrong part of
the cup...
- Speaking of which, if you want to hear a whole series of people with very
strong (and divergent) opinions on a plane building topic, ask about what
primer to use. Then step back, waay back. Also can be a good way of losing
your new plane-building friends. You will spend way too long deciding what
you want to do, and form your own opinion. By the time you spend a
gazillion hours on your chosen technique, you too will either hate it, or
feel strongly that your chosen method is the one true way ('cause why else
would you have put all that work into it?).
Chris
On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 6:14 AM, Les Kearney <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> Tony
>
> This link : ( http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/worktabl/worktabl.htm )
> will take you the plans for the "official" EAA workbenches (if there is
> such
> a thing. I put mine on heavy duty wheels (lockable) so I could move it
> around easily. They are very strong, dirt cheap to make and entirely
> functional. I put MDF on the top of mine as it is soft and there are no
> splinters to worry about. I made two and, on occasion, clamped them
> together
> to make a single large surface.
>
> If you alter the dimensions of the plans, you can make smaller (or full
> size
> if space permits) work benches to hold some of your power tools such as
> band
> saw, drill press and grinder.
>
> I found a table top belt sander / disk sander to be invaluable. I learned
> from experience that when making long straight cuts on the band saw, it was
> better to cut proud of the cut line and then use the sander to take the
> material down to the cut line.
>
> This dimpler:
> http://www.averytools.com/pc-619-84-drdt-2-hand-dimpling-tool.aspx is
> absolute gold. It is much faster and easier to dimple using this tool. I
> can't imagine building without it.
>
> When mounting my gear, I placed the whole fuselage (without the tail) on a
> table. I used an engine crane to lift it. It was the perfect height to
> allow
> the gear legs to be installed safely.
>
> When you get you kit(s), keep the Styrofoam sheets, or a least some of it,
> to put under large components during assembly.
>
> I also made, using 2X4's and MDF, a large dolly for the fuse once I moved
> into the "boat" phase. It was 4' wide and about 6' long. It also was on
> castoring wheels.
>
> I am a big fan of MDF as it is perfectly flat, cheap and doesn't splinter.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
> #40643
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> rwendell@hydro-splash.com
> Sent: April-17-10 5:17 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Firewall access
>
>
> I went with 4x8
> ------Original Message------
> From: Tony Woods
> Sender: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> ReplyTo: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Firewall access
> Sent: Apr 17, 2010 3:00 AM
>
>
> Hey all.
>
> This sounds like a stupid question, but I'm about to start work on my
> empennage in a few weeks and am getting my workshop sorted out.
>
> I've got a good set of tools coming from PlaneTools, but am wondering about
> setting up a work bench. How big? I'm going to build the bench from
> scratch, so wondering how wide and long would be good, since I can make it
> any dimension then I might as well make it right...
>
> Tony Woods
> Not started anything yet!!
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: FWF included items |
There is no gascolator on the -10.
Jim Berry
40482
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=294689#294689
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: rivets at bottom, center of fuse/firewall interface |
John,
I cannot think of any reason not to do those rivets now, if you are going to have
to remove the engine and nose gear anyway. I wound up using Cherrymax rivets
there because I was not willing to pull the engine for 8-10 rivets.
Jim Berry
40482
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=294691#294691
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: It was warm yesterday, but that's ridiculous! |
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in progress
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=294698#294698
Message 16
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I've done a complete replacement of brake lines with Bonaco. That's
including the tunnel lines and everything.
I plan on shooting a video of my routing and sharing my hose length
findings for others considering a similar replacement. But it'll be
another week or two before I get a chance.
I would have shaved a few inches on the tunnel lines and 1 inch on the
tunnel -> Landing gear line. The Teflon hoses will probably last longer
than the airplane. Their inspection will still be inspected for
condition annually.
The plan is to do the same thing for the fuel lines. Once I get all the
fuel system components placed, I'll measure for the fuel lines and get
them ordered from Bonaco. I'm going to firesleeve the tunnel fuel lines
while I'm at it. I am also swapping the aluminum 45 degree fitting
that penetrates the firewall with a steel version.
Once I get there I'll share the hose lengths, etc...
Phil
From: Les Kearney [mailto:kearney@shaw.ca]
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:31 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel Lines
Mike
Perhaps I am being a bit anal, but I don't like soft AL lines in the
cockpit. While I am sure that the are serviceable, I don't don't think
they will stay intact during an accident if the cockpit was in any way
deformed. My thought is that a braided steel line might be a bit more
forgiving.
I have seen pix of a light a/c that was consumed by fire and it is a
very sobering sight.
Cheers
Les
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Kraus
Sent: April-18-10 7:35 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Lines
I would recommend using the soft aluminum lines. A lot cheaper and last
longer. In fact, you could buy the flaring tools, all fittings, and the
aluminum lines cheaper than the flexible lines...
One suggestion would be to split the line from the fuel valve to the
tanks into 2 lines and use a 90 degree bulkhead fitting as they pass
thru the tunnel walls. Then you basically have 2 straight runs vs. 1
complex run. Just my opinion.... I can send Picts if you'd like to see
how I did it.
-Mike
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 18, 2010, at 8:45 AM, "Les Kearney" <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
Hi
I am planning on installing Bonoco Inc steel braided fel lines
in lieu of the soft aluminium lines spec'd by Vans. I am wondering if
anyone else has done this and if so how the the fuselage passthrough to
the wing was handled. It would seem that one otion is to use a bulkhead
fitting at the fuselage which would make the connection to the wing vey
simnple. Alternatively a single run of fuel line fom the fuel valve to
the wing is also an option.
Thoughts . comments anyone?
Cheers
Les
#40643 - Systems / Wiring / Finishing
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s
.com/Navigator?RV10-List
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Message 17
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On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 9:38 AM, Chris Colohan <rv10@colohan.com> wrote:
> - If you leave the blue plastic on pieces it helps stop you from scratching
> the nice shiny alclad, and makes it prettier. I hear that if you leave this
> stuff on too long it becomes a real pain to take off -- but I have not yet
> had that problem, after 2 months. (Fingers crossed.)
If you leave the vinyl on the edges, you won't get a fully smooth,
deburred edge.
Scotchbrite wheel gives nicer edges than 1" pad in die grinder. Each
has its use, and the die grinder is necessary for some things you
can't reach with Scotchbrite wheel.
> - I got a pair of chucking reamers for match drilling the pre-drilled holes
> (#30 and #40). As a result, I tend not to get burrs on holes. Well, I
> still go through the motions of deburring, but for the life of me I can't
> tell the difference in pre- and post-deburring of these holes. Perhaps I'm
> doing something wrong, or perhaps using this tool means I don't have to
> deburr.
Get #41 reamer. You will get holes that are the right size after
dimpling, rather than loose.
> - You can never have enough light in your workshop. If in doubt, put up
> some more fluorescent strips.
> - Join a local EAA chapter and visit a few builders, to see what they are
> doing and get their advice.
Good advice.
Kelly
#40866
Tech Counselor
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Workbenches (and other stuff I know now...) |
... while I see some sense in the comment below about the pneumatic
rivet squeezer, the DRDT-2 Dimpler I found to be a huge improvement
over the C-Frame and mallet approach. I used the C-Frame for the
first half of the project, then borrowed a fellow builders DRDT-2 for
the second half. It's much faster, less prone to mistakes and
QUIETER. If I ever start another project, the first thing I will do
is buy my own DRDT-2.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
On Apr 18, 2010, at 9:38 AM, Chris Colohan wrote:
>
>
> "- the two most expensive tools which folks rave about are the
> pneumatic riveter, and the DTRT. Starting off, I'd save your
> money. [most controversial sentence in this post...] I have
> borrowed a friend's pnumatic, and it is amazingly fast. This will
> help you make mistakes faster. Also, it is quite heavy and bulky,
> which means you really have to plan out how you hold it and position
> it when getting into tight corners to avoid mis-squeezing a rivet.
> When you are first starting, slow and careful is the way to go,
> since mistakes take so long to fix. I have a normal c-frame, and I
> am frankly somewhat baffled about the supposed speed advantage of a
> DTRT. Dimpling with a c-frame and mallet is a fast and pretty
> simple operation. I've hardly spent any time on it compared to all
> the other work. Not what I'd optimize, IMHO."
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
> #40643
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> rwendell@hydro-splash.com
> Sent: April-17-10 5:17 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Firewall access
>
>
> I went with 4x8
> ------Original Message------
> From: Tony Woods
> Sender: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> ReplyTo: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Firewall access
> Sent: Apr 17, 2010 3:00 AM
>
>
> Hey all.
>
> This sounds like a stupid question, but I'm about to start work on my
> empennage in a few weeks and am getting my workshop sorted out.
>
> I've got a good set of tools coming from PlaneTools, but am
> wondering about
> setting up a work bench. How big? I'm going to build the bench from
> scratch, so wondering how wide and long would be good, since I can
> make it
> any dimension then I might as well make it right...
>
> Tony Woods
> Not started anything yet!!
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
>
> ==========
> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Workbenches (and other stuff I know now...) |
Not to mention a MUCH smaller chance of whackin your hand with the
mallet.
(a DRDT-2 convert)
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Carpenter
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Workbenches (and other stuff I know now...)
... while I see some sense in the comment below about the pneumatic
rivet squeezer, the DRDT-2 Dimpler I found to be a huge improvement over
the C-Frame and mallet approach. I used the C-Frame for the first half
of the project, then borrowed a fellow builders DRDT-2 for the second
half. It's much faster, less prone to mistakes and QUIETER. If I ever
start another project, the first thing I will do is buy my own DRDT-2.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
On Apr 18, 2010, at 9:38 AM, Chris Colohan wrote:
"- the two most expensive tools which folks rave about are the
pneumatic riveter, and the DTRT. Starting off, I'd save your money.
[most controversial sentence in this post...] I have borrowed a
friend's pnumatic, and it is amazingly fast. This will help you make
mistakes faster. Also, it is quite heavy and bulky, which means you
really have to plan out how you hold it and position it when getting
into tight corners to avoid mis-squeezing a rivet. When you are first
starting, slow and careful is the way to go, since mistakes take so long
to fix. I have a normal c-frame, and I am frankly somewhat baffled
about the supposed speed advantage of a DTRT. Dimpling with a c-frame
and mallet is a fast and pretty simple operation. I've hardly spent any
time on it compared to all the other work. Not what I'd optimize,
IMHO."
Cheers
Les
#40643
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rwendell@hydro-splash.com
Sent: April-17-10 5:17 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Firewall access
I went with 4x8
------Original Message------
From: Tony Woods
Sender: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
ReplyTo: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Firewall access
Sent: Apr 17, 2010 3:00 AM
Hey all.
This sounds like a stupid question, but I'm about to start work on
my
empennage in a few weeks and am getting my workshop sorted out.
I've got a good set of tools coming from PlaneTools, but am
wondering about
setting up a work bench. How big? I'm going to build the bench
from
scratch, so wondering how wide and long would be good, since I can
make it
any dimension then I might as well make it right...
Tony Woods
Not started anything yet!!
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
==========
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
Message 20
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| Subject: | Workbenches (and other stuff I know now...) |
Guys I am extremely grateful for your wise words and input. Chris your
comments and guidance are very, very much appreciated. For a total
newbie, it gives huge confidence to know that there is a whole bunch of
other people out there who also started out thinking a bucking bar was
somewhere they got thrown out of in Anchorage....
Tony Woods
Sustainable Energy Services Afghanistan
=D8=AE=D8=AF=D9=85=D8=A7=D8 =D8=A7=D9=86=D8=B1=DA=98=DB=8C
=D8=A7=D9=81=D8=BA=D8=A7=D9=86=D8=B3=D8=D8=A7=D9=86
www.sesa.af
twoods@sesa.af
int tel +6421576555
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Walker
Sent: Monday, 19 April 2010 12:44 p.m.
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Workbenches (and other stuff I know now...)
Not to mention a MUCH smaller chance of whackin your hand with the
mallet.
(a DRDT-2 convert)
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Carpenter <mailto:jeff@westcottpress.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Workbenches (and other stuff I know now...)
... while I see some sense in the comment below about the pneumatic
rivet squeezer, the DRDT-2 Dimpler I found to be a huge improvement over
the C-Frame and mallet approach. I used the C-Frame for the first half
of the project, then borrowed a fellow builders DRDT-2 for the second
half. It's much faster, less prone to mistakes and QUIETER. If I ever
start another project, the first thing I will do is buy my own DRDT-2.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
On Apr 18, 2010, at 9:38 AM, Chris Colohan wrote:
"- the two most expensive tools which folks rave about are the pneumatic
riveter, and the DTRT. Starting off, I'd save your money. [most
controversial sentence in this post...] I have borrowed a friend's
pnumatic, and it is amazingly fast. This will help you make mistakes
faster. Also, it is quite heavy and bulky, which means you really have
to plan out how you hold it and position it when getting into tight
corners to avoid mis-squeezing a rivet. When you are first starting,
slow and careful is the way to go, since mistakes take so long to fix.
I have a normal c-frame, and I am frankly somewhat baffled about the
supposed speed advantage of a DTRT. Dimpling with a c-frame and mallet
is a fast and pretty simple operation. I've hardly spent any time on it
compared to all the other work. Not what I'd optimize, IMHO."
Cheers
Les
#40643
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rwendell@hydro-splash.com
Sent: April-17-10 5:17 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Firewall access
I went with 4x8
------Original Message------
From: Tony Woods
Sender: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
ReplyTo: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Firewall access
Sent: Apr 17, 2010 3:00 AM
Hey all.
This sounds like a stupid question, but I'm about to start work on my
empennage in a few weeks and am getting my workshop sorted out.
I've got a good set of tools coming from PlaneTools, but am wondering
about
setting up a work bench. How big? I'm going to build the bench from
scratch, so wondering how wide and long would be good, since I can make
it
any dimension then I might as well make it right...
Tony Woods
Not started anything yet!!
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 21
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| Subject: | Workbenches (and other stuff I know now...) |
Oh yeah - a DRDT-2 was the first thing I brought...
Tony
Do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Walker
Sent: Monday, 19 April 2010 12:44 p.m.
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Workbenches (and other stuff I know now...)
Not to mention a MUCH smaller chance of whackin your hand with the mallet.
(a DRDT-2 convert)
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Carpenter <mailto:jeff@westcottpress.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Workbenches (and other stuff I know now...)
... while I see some sense in the comment below about the pneumatic rivet
squeezer, the DRDT-2 Dimpler I found to be a huge improvement over the
C-Frame and mallet approach. I used the C-Frame for the first half of the
project, then borrowed a fellow builders DRDT-2 for the second half. It's
much faster, less prone to mistakes and QUIETER. If I ever start another
project, the first thing I will do is buy my own DRDT-2.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
On Apr 18, 2010, at 9:38 AM, Chris Colohan wrote:
"- the two most expensive tools which folks rave about are the pneumatic
riveter, and the DTRT. Starting off, I'd save your money. [most
controversial sentence in this post...] I have borrowed a friend's
pnumatic, and it is amazingly fast. This will help you make mistakes
faster. Also, it is quite heavy and bulky, which means you really have to
plan out how you hold it and position it when getting into tight corners to
avoid mis-squeezing a rivet. When you are first starting, slow and careful
is the way to go, since mistakes take so long to fix. I have a normal
c-frame, and I am frankly somewhat baffled about the supposed speed
advantage of a DTRT. Dimpling with a c-frame and mallet is a fast and
pretty simple operation. I've hardly spent any time on it compared to all
the other work. Not what I'd optimize, IMHO."
Cheers
Les
#40643
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rwendell@hydro-splash.com
Sent: April-17-10 5:17 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Firewall access
I went with 4x8
------Original Message------
From: Tony Woods
Sender: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
ReplyTo: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Firewall access
Sent: Apr 17, 2010 3:00 AM
Hey all.
This sounds like a stupid question, but I'm about to start work on my
empennage in a few weeks and am getting my workshop sorted out.
I've got a good set of tools coming from PlaneTools, but am wondering about
setting up a work bench. How big? I'm going to build the bench from
scratch, so wondering how wide and long would be good, since I can make it
any dimension then I might as well make it right...
Tony Woods
Not started anything yet!!
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Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: rivets at bottom, center of fuse/firewall interface |
Go for it now. Also as I recall there were some prior posts about the cowling bracket
being too weak (and breaking) so I fabricated a stronger one that I secure
with a pop rivet - not the best solution. I would suggest a nut plate to secure
the cowling bracket. Lots stronger - super secure - and easily removable.
I see no reason not to button those holes up now.
--------
OSH '10 or Bust
Q/B - phase 1 / painting
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=294790#294790
Message 23
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Hands down go for the Bonaco. I futzed with those darned aluminum lines for hours
and then finally ordered the Bonaco. Nice folks - good service - reasonable
price. On the pass thru (to the wing) just cut a bushing in half on the band
saw and snap it in around the Bonaco line. After hours of frustration, I had my
fuel lines installed in something like 45 minutes. I think that they have an
OSH special if you are going there.
--------
OSH '10 or Bust
Q/B - phase 1 / painting
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=294791#294791
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