Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:53 AM - Re: aerosport overhead console (Bob Leffler)
2. 02:53 AM - Re: 569JC (John MacCallum)
3. 05:48 AM - Re: 569JC (Bill Mauledriver Watson)
4. 02:12 PM - Re: 569JC (woxofswa)
5. 02:17 PM - Re: was 569JC- now vacuum pump behavior with windmilling engine (Bill Mauledriver Watson)
6. 02:36 PM - Re: Re: 569JC (Pascal)
7. 02:43 PM - Re: was 569JC- now vacuum pump behavior with windmilling engine (Bob Turner)
8. 03:05 PM - Re: Fuel sensor location (was N569JC) (Deems Davis)
9. 03:49 PM - Re: Fuel sensor location (was N569JC) (DLM)
10. 03:56 PM - Re: Re: 569JC (DLM)
11. 04:06 PM - Re: Re: was 569JC- now vacuum pump behavior with windmilling engine (Bill Mauledriver Watson)
12. 04:27 PM - Re: Re: 569JC (Jesse Saint)
13. 07:03 PM - N402RH Fuel sensor location (RobHickman@aol.com)
14. 08:33 PM - Re: aerosport overhead console (rvdave)
Message 1
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| Subject: | aerosport overhead console |
I don't have any empirical data, but based upon conversation with Geoff
Combs who has a green cabin cover and has seen my pink cabin cover there
shouldn't be any difference in fit. The basic differences are in quality of
finish. You may have more work filling and sanding with the green version.
I would give Geoff a call directly. (614) 834-8659
bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rvdave
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 11:50 PM
Subject: RV10-List: aerosport overhead console
Has anyone tried fitting the carbon fiber overhead to the green cabin vs the
pink that it was molded for? I don't know if there is any difference
between the pink and green?
--------
Dave Ford
RV6 flying
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=295520#295520
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That=92s just an amazing story! I=92m doing SE CMD right now with about
35 hours
in and that scenario I have thought about over and over.
What if the big Fan stops when you=92re in IMC? All I can say is well
Done and
good on the technology that led you to that strip!
cheers
John MacCallum
Builder 41016
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Saturday, 24 April 2010 9:11 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 569JC
Here you go=85=85=85=85
See Below
Phil
Today I got lucky, real lucky.
3 Months ago to the day our RV-10 was signed off from a Kit to an
Airplane,
today it experienced its first and hopefully last engine failure. With
58
hours on the Hobbs she had until this point been the best 4 place
airplane
I=92ve ever flown.
I had flown some friends from Pearland TX over to Victoria so they could
pick up their motor home. A very non-eventful flight, a little bumpy VFR
down at 2000 AGL, but an overcast layer prevented any higher. Once there
I
decided that I would file IFR for the flight back, get on top and enjoy
some
tailwinds.
I left Victoria, climbed to 7000 and enjoyed some much needed sunlight.
Houston Center was their normal cheerful self; all in all, life was
good. I
was cleared down to 4000, as luck would have the Overcast layer had also
dropped a few thousand feet so I remained on Top=85 wow so nice, still
don=92t
have to be in the clunk! Center switched me to Approach, we agreed upon
the
GPS approach back to Pearland, and I was cleared to the IAF. Up until
this
point everything was absolutely great!
I started my decent out of 4, down to 3000 going direct the IAF=85 At
3400 ft,
that=92s when the adrenalin started pumping. Now I=92ll be honest, I
don=92t=92 know
if I heard the prop fluctuate or not, but something got my attention. I
did
a quick engine check and saw that EGT=92s where high=85 very very high.
I knew
immediately I had a problem, but I had no idea just how bad the problem
was.
Training kicked in and Mixture to rich, boost pump on, tank switch. The
EGT=92s came down, but they didn=92t stop coming down. When I saw them
drop
below 200 or so, and I was getting no reaction what-so-ever from the
throttle=85 Well, Houston We Have A Problem.
I declared the Emergency=85 If you ever want to hear a frequency go
totally
quiet, just use those words. Informed Approach of a total power failure
and
requested vectors to the nearest airport. Houston Approach was for the
most
part absolutely wonderful. Without missing a beat they informed me that
Brazoria was 7=92Oclock and 5 miles. I IMMEDIATELY started the turn and
realized that with my now wonderful tailwind turned headwind, there was
no
way I was going to make it.
Let me back up just a bit=85 All this is happing IMC. I entered the
overcast
layer at about 3800 FT, bases are reported anywhere between 1000-1500
depending on which ASOS you listen to.
Continuing on=85. Not going to make Brazoria, I know I have to do
something.
Glancing at my EFIS Map I see that =BE a mile away is a private strip
that
Center probably didn=92t even know existed. I turn directly at that
airport
(7R9), informed Approach where I was going, then I waited, and waited,
and
waited=85. Not much else I could think to do at the time. Still IMC.
Engine
Out. I didn=92t really think I=92d be in this situation, ever.
=BC mile from the airport, at 1300 ft I break out. Guys & Gals, I
haven=92t been
so happy to see a perfectly mowed grass strip in my life! A quick turn
away
to burn Airspeed and Altitude, slip to final, and down we come. The
landing
went perfect, it was downwind. I didn=92t care, the airplane didn=92t
care. The
prop finally quit windmilling in the flair, telling me that it really
was
dead, as if I didn=92t know.
I managed to get us (me and the plane) on the ground, unhurt, out of
that
situation. Is it all skill, well I=92d like to think so=85 but I know
better! I
got lucky, very lucky.
What went wrong? The short version: a fuel line broke.
The long version: During final assembly it came to my attention that
people
with the Fuel Flow transducer in the =93Tunnel=94 where experiencing FF
fluctuation when using the electric pump. The fix? Move the FF
Transducer to
between the Fuel Injection Servo and the Spider. Well, that=92s what I
did.
When I relocated the Transducer I had to fabricate a line between the
Servo
and the Transducer. The line I fabricated was =BC inch aluminum, that
was the
flaw. That line broke just outside the fitting. When I made that line I
made
sure it wasn=92t under any stress, in a natural position, etc.
Apparently that
was not enough. Now, I will say this. This was the one component of the
airplane I was never quite happy with. It just =93didn=92t look
right=94. I had
some other builders take a look, half heartedly hoping they would tell
me
that aluminum was bad and I should change it, but no one did. So it
stayed,
and worked fine for 58 hours.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5834625/RV10/photo%203.jpg
I blame no one but myself for what happened. A part of me knew that that
line wasn=92t right, yet I talked myself into believing it was fine.
Don=92t
ever short change your gut=85 most of the time its got good instincts!
She=92s now grounded, awaiting Stainless Tubing so I can make the fuel
like
the way I originally envisioned. Parts should be here next week, and the
adventure will continue.
Now comes the part where I=92d like to thank the people that helped me
stay
alive today!
First my Father, Kirk. You see, I started flying Ultralights at 14, and
it
was he who preached at me to practice engine outs. They where 2 strokes,
and
it wasn=92t =93if=94 they would quit, it was =93when=94. I never lost an
engine flying
Ultralights, but I sure practiced.
My Flight Instructors. All you guys (and there has been a few..) who
would
randomly pull power, then say =93Now what?=94
Rob Hickman and the entire crew at Advanced Flight Systems. Without
those
awesome EFIS=92s (and I really do mean awesome) I probably would have
never
known that the airport I landed at was there. It didn=92t show up on the
430,
Approach didn=92t know, and I was stuck IMC. And the data logging.. wow.
I
poured over every second of that flight to find out when exactly I
converted
from ASEL to Glider=85 Having that data is invaluable.
John Cram (build partner) and Rick Carr for selfless gathering their own
tools and driving to my rescue. With their help we where able to
fabricate a
new fuel line ferry the airplane the 22 miles home.
The entire group of local airport bums that showed up to offer a helping
hand. I only wish I could remember each and everyone=92s name, but that
is not
my strong suit. I owe all of you at least a beer!
Last but not least=85 Brazoria County Constables and Sheriff=92s (no
less than
5) who showed up, lights and sirens agoin, to come to my rescue.
Thankfully
I didn=92t need it, but it sure is nice to know that help is on the way.
In case anyone wants to know how fast this happens. Total time from Me
turning on the Fuel Pump to wheels on the ground: 2 Minutes 46 seconds.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5834625/RV10/EntireFlight.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5834625/RV10/landing.jpg
From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net]
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 5:57 PM
Subject: RV10-List: 569JC
Anyone know the story yet?
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 3
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Nick, really, really nice job piloting (period).
Sitting in the virtual cockpit with you, I'm imagining that it must be
nice not having to transition off a vacuum powered anything when you
lost power. And the situational awareness of the glass has to be sweet.
Would be curious to hear any thoughts of why there wasn't a fire.
Bill "fully awake this morning" Watson
40605
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Great story.
Just last week I was on the phone with the folks who make the red cube transducer
and they too told me that putting it in the tunnel like Van's shows on the
prints is a bad idea. The other thing they told me and that they were emphatic
about was that you must use FLEX line both in and out of the cube. In fact
they suggested no hard line anywhere between any mounted components in the fuel
system. They said that different masses get different vibration patterns and
will crack the hard lines.
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in progress
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=295572#295572
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| Subject: | Re: was 569JC- now vacuum pump behavior with windmilling engine |
I realize that the 569JC discussion is over on VAF but I'd like to ask a
question I just realized I don't have a clue about...
If you lose your engine and the prop is windmilling, does your vacuum
pump still generate enough suck to power the gyros? Or does the
horizon just slowly fall over? (assuming you have vac powered gyros)
Thanks,
Bill
Bill Mauledriver Watson wrote:
> <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
>
> Nick, really, really nice job piloting (period).
>
> Sitting in the virtual cockpit with you, I'm imagining that it must be
> nice not having to transition off a vacuum powered anything when you
> lost power. And the situational awareness of the glass has to be sweet.
>
> Would be curious to hear any thoughts of why there wasn't a fire.
>
> Bill "fully awake this morning" Watson
> 40605
>
>
Message 6
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I believe Vans has their Demo plane setup per the plans and they haven't
had issues. I recall asking support about this a while back and they stated
all their planes are setup with the aluminum tube and never had an issue.
The plane with this issue has his cube in the engine area by the servo to
avoid reported fuel pump issue (high GPH readings when on) not the tunnel-
he would have known he had a problem if it was in the tunnel the fuel smell
would have given that away- lucky there was not fire in the engine area.
P
--------------------------------------------------
From: "woxofswa" <woxof@aol.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 2:09 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: 569JC
>
> Great story.
>
> Just last week I was on the phone with the folks who make the red cube
> transducer and they too told me that putting it in the tunnel like Van's
> shows on the prints is a bad idea. The other thing they told me and that
> they were emphatic about was that you must use FLEX line both in and out
> of the cube. In fact they suggested no hard line anywhere between any
> mounted components in the fuel system. They said that different masses
> get different vibration patterns and will crack the hard lines.
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa, AZ
> Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in progress
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=295572#295572
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: was 569JC- now vacuum pump behavior with windmilling engine |
Depends....
but most vacuum pump installations generate enough flow to power the gyros even
at idle (look at the vacuum pressure gauge, is it in the green?). so if the engine
windmills at 1000 rpm or more, and usually it will (depends on the prop,
if there's internal damage, etc), then yes, the gyros will work.
If this wasn't true, then a 172 making a long idle power descent thru the clouds
might suddenly find the gyros didn't work!
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=295576#295576
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel sensor location (was N569JC) |
FWIW, I'm in the process of changing the location of my fuel flow
sensor. I had it in the stock Van's tunnel location. And as others
reported that location yeilds a higher than normal reading when the fuel
pump is turned on. However, it also gives me fluctuations in the
instantaneous readings. Typically they are +/- .2-.4 gph. But
occasionally can vary as much as +/- .8 gph. For purposes of fuel
totalizator functions, it doesn't appear to cause much of a problem. As
the totals are within .1-.2 gals a fill up. I suppose because the +'s
and -'s offset each other. But I've been working on tuning my fuel
injection via the restrictors, with the desired goal of getting to +/-
.1 _ .3 gph variation between cylinders, and despite all of my best
efforts with data logging to capture data, it's just not good enough. So
after talking with Don @ Airflow, he stated that the best place for the
sensor is between the servo and the dist spider. I've been playing with
this for the past couple of days and it looks like I can position the
sensor on the corner of the sump under the #1 cyl. Its going to require
2 new integral firesleeved SS/teflon hoses, and the install will be
close quarters, but it appears it should work. The FloScan installation
instructions call for the sensor to be wrapped in firesleeve, and that
makes supporting the sensor and fuel lines a challenge.
Deems Davis
N519PJ
www.deemsrv10.com
On 4/24/2010 2:29 PM, Pascal wrote:
>
> I believe Vans has their Demo plane setup per the plans and they
> haven't had issues. I recall asking support about this a while back
> and they stated all their planes are setup with the aluminum tube and
> never had an issue.
> The plane with this issue has his cube in the engine area by the servo
> to avoid reported fuel pump issue (high GPH readings when on) not the
> tunnel- he would have known he had a problem if it was in the tunnel
> the fuel smell would have given that away- lucky there was not fire in
> the engine area.
> P
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "woxofswa" <woxof@aol.com>
> Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 2:09 PM
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: 569JC
>
>>
>> Great story.
>>
>> Just last week I was on the phone with the folks who make the red
>> cube transducer and they too told me that putting it in the tunnel
>> like Van's shows on the prints is a bad idea. The other thing they
>> told me and that they were emphatic about was that you must use FLEX
>> line both in and out of the cube. In fact they suggested no hard
>> line anywhere between any mounted components in the fuel system.
>> They said that different masses get different vibration patterns and
>> will crack the hard lines.
>>
>> --------
>> Myron Nelson
>> Mesa, AZ
>> Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in progress
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=295572#295572
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Fuel sensor location (was N569JC) |
I believe the key is no aluminum hard lines firewall forward; I had Halon
lines in aluminum running from the firewall bulkhead fitting to the carb air
box and from the bulkhead fitting to the sprayer over the engine on my
Glastar. Both lines initially failed due to vibration. After using an
intermediate rubber tube to isolate the airframe from engine vibrations and
properly securing the sprayer , the problem was solved. However this would
not work with fuel lines; stainless or SS Teflon flex lines are imperative.
Aluminum hard lines have been used and approved in certified aircraft
(airframe) for many years. As a side note hydraulic return lines in my
Cardinal RG twice cracked the flare at the electric pump and allowed 5606 to
leak. Fortunately the leaks occurred and were observed on the ground.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel sensor location (was N569JC)
FWIW, I'm in the process of changing the location of my fuel flow sensor. I
had it in the stock Van's tunnel location. And as others reported that
location yeilds a higher than normal reading when the fuel pump is turned
on. However, it also gives me fluctuations in the instantaneous readings.
Typically they are +/- .2-.4 gph. But occasionally can vary as much as +/-
.8 gph. For purposes of fuel totalizator functions, it doesn't appear to
cause much of a problem. As the totals are within .1-.2 gals a fill up. I
suppose because the +'s and -'s offset each other. But I've been working on
tuning my fuel injection via the restrictors, with the desired goal of
getting to +/- .1 _ .3 gph variation between cylinders, and despite all of
my best efforts with data logging to capture data, it's just not good
enough. So after talking with Don @ Airflow, he stated that the best place
for the sensor is between the servo and the dist spider. I've been playing
with this for the past couple of days and it looks like I can position the
sensor on the corner of the sump under the #1 cyl. Its going to require 2
new integral firesleeved SS/teflon hoses, and the install will be close
quarters, but it appears it should work. The FloScan installation
instructions call for the sensor to be wrapped in firesleeve, and that makes
supporting the sensor and fuel lines a challenge.
Deems Davis
N519PJ
www.deemsrv10.com
On 4/24/2010 2:29 PM, Pascal wrote:
<rv10builder@verizon.net>
I believe Vans has their Demo plane setup per the plans and they haven't
had issues. I recall asking support about this a while back and they stated
all their planes are setup with the aluminum tube and never had an issue.
The plane with this issue has his cube in the engine area by the servo to
avoid reported fuel pump issue (high GPH readings when on) not the tunnel-
he would have known he had a problem if it was in the tunnel the fuel smell
would have given that away- lucky there was not fire in the engine area.
P
--------------------------------------------------
From: "woxofswa" <mailto:woxof@aol.com> <woxof@aol.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 2:09 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: 569JC
<woxof@aol.com>
Great story.
Just last week I was on the phone with the folks who make the red cube
transducer and they too told me that putting it in the tunnel like Van's
shows on the prints is a bad idea. The other thing they told me and that
they were emphatic about was that you must use FLEX line both in and out of
the cube. In fact they suggested no hard line anywhere between any mounted
components in the fuel system. They said that different masses get
different vibration patterns and will crack the hard lines.
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in progress
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=295572#295572
Message 10
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All the more reason for a fire bottle; note the fire handle in the picture.
System is plumbed to two sprayers; one over the engine and one aft of the
rear cylinder baffles
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: 569JC
I believe Vans has their Demo plane setup per the plans and they haven't
had issues. I recall asking support about this a while back and they stated
all their planes are setup with the aluminum tube and never had an issue.
The plane with this issue has his cube in the engine area by the servo to
avoid reported fuel pump issue (high GPH readings when on) not the tunnel-
he would have known he had a problem if it was in the tunnel the fuel smell
would have given that away- lucky there was not fire in the engine area.
P
--------------------------------------------------
From: "woxofswa" <woxof@aol.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 2:09 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: 569JC
>
> Great story.
>
> Just last week I was on the phone with the folks who make the red cube
> transducer and they too told me that putting it in the tunnel like
> Van's shows on the prints is a bad idea. The other thing they told me
> and that they were emphatic about was that you must use FLEX line both
> in and out of the cube. In fact they suggested no hard line anywhere
> between any mounted components in the fuel system. They said that
> different masses get different vibration patterns and will crack the hard
lines.
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa, AZ
> Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in progress
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=295572#295572
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: was 569JC- now vacuum pump behavior with windmilling |
engine
That all makes sense. Just couldn't think it through. Thanks!
Bob Turner wrote:
>
> Depends....
> but most vacuum pump installations generate enough flow to power the gyros even
at idle (look at the vacuum pressure gauge, is it in the green?). so if the
engine windmills at 1000 rpm or more, and usually it will (depends on the prop,
if there's internal damage, etc), then yes, the gyros will work.
>
> If this wasn't true, then a 172 making a long idle power descent thru the clouds
might suddenly find the gyros didn't work!
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=295576#295576
>
>
>
Message 12
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The floscan people said absolutely no rigid lines with the transducer
in the engine compartment, but they didn't say that for inside
firewall mounting. Much less vibration there.
Do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation
jesse@saintaviation.com
352-427-0285
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 24, 2010, at 5:29 PM, "Pascal" <rv10builder@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> I believe Vans has their Demo plane setup per the plans and they
> haven't had issues. I recall asking support about this a while back
> and they stated all their planes are setup with the aluminum tube
> and never had an issue.
> The plane with this issue has his cube in the engine area by the
> servo to avoid reported fuel pump issue (high GPH readings when on)
> not the tunnel- he would have known he had a problem if it was in
> the tunnel the fuel smell would have given that away- lucky there
> was not fire in the engine area.
> P
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "woxofswa" <woxof@aol.com>
> Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 2:09 PM
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: 569JC
>
>>
>> Great story.
>>
>> Just last week I was on the phone with the folks who make the red
>> cube transducer and they too told me that putting it in the tunnel
>> like Van's shows on the prints is a bad idea. The other thing they
>> told me and that they were emphatic about was that you must use
>> FLEX line both in and out of the cube. In fact they suggested no
>> hard line anywhere between any mounted components in the fuel
>> system. They said that different masses get different vibration
>> patterns and will crack the hard lines.
>>
>> --------
>> Myron Nelson
>> Mesa, AZ
>> Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in progress
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=295572#295572
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | N402RH Fuel sensor location |
This is how I mounted it in my RV-10
_http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/IpZAMWzeY7fiT9lprJGZqQ?feat=directlink
_
(http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/IpZAMWzeY7fiT9lprJGZqQ?feat=directlink)
Rob Hickman
N402RH
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: aerosport overhead console |
When I spoke with Geoff last he mentioned the mold was built around the pink cabin
and wasn't sure the differences between pink and green covers. You are probably
right, the differences are probably minor and can be filled or corrected.
Now just deciding whether I want the overhead or go with something else just
for pilot/copilot lighting. I'm trying to justify the idea of lighting, air
front/back with overhead.
--------
Dave Ford
RV6 flying
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=295604#295604
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