Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:05 AM - EPA Issues Proposed Rulemaking for Leaded Avgas (Kelly McMullen)
2. 07:59 AM - Re: RV-10 Fire (Dave Saylor)
3. 08:34 AM - Cabin frame and Mcmaster-Carr door seals (Michael Schipper)
4. 09:00 AM - Speaker in overhead console (Michael Wellenzohn)
5. 09:01 AM - Re: Cabin frame and Mcmaster-Carr door seals (Deems Davis)
6. 09:31 AM - Re: Speaker in overhead console (Linn Walters)
7. 12:24 PM - Re: Cabin frame and Mcmaster-Carr door seals (Michael Schipper)
8. 12:54 PM - Re: Cabin frame and Mcmaster-Carr door seals (Deems Davis)
9. 03:12 PM - Re: Cabin frame and Mcmaster-Carr door seals (Bill Mauledriver Watson)
10. 06:23 PM - Re: RV-10 Fire (Danny Riggs)
11. 07:54 PM - Re: RV-10 Fire (David McNeill)
12. 08:22 PM - Re: RV-10 Fire (Perry, Phil)
13. 08:30 PM - Re: RV-10 Fire (Danny Riggs)
14. 08:34 PM - Re: RV-10 Fire (David McNeill)
15. 09:18 PM - Re: RV-10 Fire and Annual results (McGann, Ron)
16. 09:28 PM - Re: RV-10 Fire (David McNeill)
17. 09:49 PM - Ray Allen position sensor for flaps (John Gonzalez)
18. 10:20 PM - Re: Ray Allen position sensor for flaps (Lew Gallagher)
19. 11:31 PM - Re: Ray Allen position sensor for flaps (Don McDonald)
Message 1
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| Subject: | EPA Issues Proposed Rulemaking for Leaded Avgas |
Might want to keep this in mind when you select compression ratio for
your engine:
On April 28, 2010, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) issued an
advance notice of proposed rulemaking (ANPRM), the first step in a
process that may lead to standards mandating GAs transition to
unleaded avgas. This action allows the public to comment on the
current data being considered to develop standards to control lead
emissions from piston-powered aircraft.
Avgas is the only remaining transportation fuel in the United States
that contains lead. FAA is committed to continue working with the GA
community to test, adopt, and certify a new aviation gasoline fuel
standard. In addition, FAA established a GA alternative fuels program
at the FAA Technical Center to continue research of unleaded aviation
fuels and has issued many supplemental type certificates (STCs) to
allow aircraft with lower-performance engines to operate with unleaded
automobile gasoline.
Despite ongoing research, currently there is no definitive replacement
for unleaded avgas available that will meet the needs of all GA
aircraft. EPA will use data gathered through this comment-seeking
process, as well as work with FAA and industry, to decide whether to
enact restrictions on the use of leaded avgas. EPA estimates that lead
emissions from aircraft using leaded avgas accounts for approximately
half of the national inventory of lead emitted to air.
EPA will accept public comment on the ANPRM until June 28, 2010. To
view the ANPRM and to provide comments, go to www.regulations.gov and
search Docket ID: EPA-HQ-OAR-2007-0294.
Message 2
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The latest on VAF says they should both be OK.
I put a couple drain holes in the tunnel just forward of the spar so at
least a small leak wouldn't puddle.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 9:00 PM, Perry, Phil <Phil.Perry@netapp.com> wrote:
>
> I've been watching that too... Sounds like he's burned but okay.
>
> Not trying to speculate, but this event caused me to think through a
> couple of topics.
>
> Anyone know if the fuel boost pump and flap motors are explosion
> resistant? If not, they probably should be since there are several fuel
> lines that share the same enclosed airspace as both electrical items.
>
> I was thinking this through earlier this morning and now I think the
> RV-10 POH should say any smell of fuel in the cabin should immediately
> mean no flaps and no boost pump.
>
> For the record, I don't even know if he was operating either. Just
> thinking through a gotcha scenario for the benefit of the group.
>
> Phil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim Olson [mailto:Tim@myrv10.com]
> Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 10:29 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire
>
>
> Just caught this on VAF...
> http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=57715
>
> Would be nice to hear that he's really ok, if anyone
> knows how bad off they were.
>
> --
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
> do not archive
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Cabin frame and Mcmaster-Carr door seals |
For those of you who have used the Mcmaster-Carr door seals, I'm interested in
knowing how much (if any) you decided to build up the inside of the cabin frame
around the door opening? I've seen posts about the flange ending up being too
thin. I've also seen reference to gluing the door seals in place and I'm wondering
if this is because of the thinness of the flange or if I need to plan on
gluing as well.
One more thing that I noticed in my trial fit...the seal along the bottom of the
door opening doesn't compress very much (maybe 1/16" when the door is in the
closed position. Is this adequate for the seal to function properly in flight,
or should I be looking for ways to bring the seal closer to the door.
Regards,
Mike Schipper
#40576 - finishing - www.rvten.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | Speaker in overhead console |
Hi there,
did anyone install a speaker in the overhead console, and do you know if there
is anything to be aware of in terms of distance to the outside mounted GPS antenna,
or the magnetometer cables passing by form the back?
Thanks Michael
--------
RV-10 builder (interior,avionics, wiring)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297183#297183
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin frame and Mcmaster-Carr door seals |
I didn't build up any portion of the cabin frame door opening. But there
were several places that I needed to thin the frame edges. (most
memorable was the corners at the top of the doors where the fiberglass
was extremely thick. I know others have found it necessary to build them
up some. I believe it is a function of 2 things:
1. How you fit your doors. I don't think any 2 RV10's have the same door
fit.
2, Also, how you go about removing the material. By that I mean, since
the edge of the cabin frame 'twists' as it goes from vertical to horiz.
you need to trim the frame so that the bulb of the seal will contact the
door at the same relative angle (flat). So as you begin trimming the
door frame at the bottom of the door the 'cut' is almost at a right
angle to the door channel, and as you extend up the door and as the
frame curves, you need to keep the cut at the same relative angle. When
you get to the upper corners this will result in a relatively sharp and
wide edge for the door seal to clamp on, as opposed to the aprox 3/16"
edge at the bottom.
The door seal material, is made of alum and wrapped in vinyl. inside of
the channel are 'teeth' that are there to grip on to what ever material
the frame is made of. (fiberglass in our case). A carefully wielded
rubber mallet does a good job of mating the seal to the frame. HOWEVER,
you will find that when you enter/exit the plane you will find yourself
grabbing on to the door frame.and seal. This will cause the alum channel
to expand and the seal will loosen. I found it necessary to glue mine, I
used Proseal, others have used autobody trim cement.
Deems Davis
N519PJ
www.deemsrv10.com
On 5/9/2010 8:31 AM, Michael Schipper wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Michael Schipper<mike@learningplanet.com>
>
> For those of you who have used the Mcmaster-Carr door seals, I'm interested in
knowing how much (if any) you decided to build up the inside of the cabin frame
around the door opening? I've seen posts about the flange ending up being
too thin. I've also seen reference to gluing the door seals in place and I'm wondering
if this is because of the thinness of the flange or if I need to plan
on gluing as well.
>
> One more thing that I noticed in my trial fit...the seal along the bottom of
the door opening doesn't compress very much (maybe 1/16" when the door is in the
closed position. Is this adequate for the seal to function properly in flight,
or should I be looking for ways to bring the seal closer to the door.
>
> Regards,
> Mike Schipper
> #40576 - finishing - www.rvten.com
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Speaker in overhead console |
Michael Wellenzohn wrote:
>
> Hi there,
> did anyone install a speaker in the overhead console,
I'm not .... you should be wearing a headset to protect your hearing,
making a speaker dead weight.
> and do you know if there is anything to be aware of in terms of distance to
the outside mounted GPS antenna, or the magnetometer cables passing by form the
back?
>
Neither should be an issue ...... providing you use shielded cable and
terminate the shield properly.
Just my 2 pennies.
Linn
> Thanks Michael
>
> --------
> RV-10 builder (interior,avionics, wiring)
> #511
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=297183#297183
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin frame and Mcmaster-Carr door seals |
Thanks Deems, that is helpful information. I have referenced the
pictures on your site many times. I agree that it seems like each door
installation is unique (In my case I have a green cabin top and pink
doors).
Another problem area appears to be around the gas strut attach bracket.
Did you just cut the channel and keep the "bulb" intact above the
bracket?
Thanks,
Mike Schipper
#40576 - finishing - www.rvten.com
On May 9, 2010, at 11:01 AM, Deems Davis wrote:
> I didn't build up any portion of the cabin frame door opening. But
there were several places that I needed to thin the frame edges. (most
memorable was the corners at the top of the doors where the fiberglass
was extremely thick. I know others have found it necessary to build them
up some. I believe it is a function of 2 things:
> 1. How you fit your doors. I don't think any 2 RV10's have the same
door fit.
> 2, Also, how you go about removing the material. By that I mean, since
the edge of the cabin frame 'twists' as it goes from vertical to horiz.
you need to trim the frame so that the bulb of the seal will contact the
door at the same relative angle (flat). So as you begin trimming the
door frame at the bottom of the door the 'cut' is almost at a right
angle to the door channel, and as you extend up the door and as the
frame curves, you need to keep the cut at the same relative angle. When
you get to the upper corners this will result in a relatively sharp and
wide edge for the door seal to clamp on, as opposed to the aprox 3/16"
edge at the bottom.
> The door seal material, is made of alum and wrapped in vinyl. inside
of the channel are 'teeth' that are there to grip on to what ever
material the frame is made of. (fiberglass in our case). A carefully
wielded rubber mallet does a good job of mating the seal to the frame.
HOWEVER, you will find that when you enter/exit the plane you will find
yourself grabbing on to the door frame.and seal. This will cause the
alum channel to expand and the seal will loosen. I found it necessary to
glue mine, I used Proseal, others have used autobody trim cement.
>
> Deems Davis
> N519PJ
> www.deemsrv10.com
>
> On 5/9/2010 8:31 AM, Michael Schipper wrote:
>>
<mike@learningplanet.com>
>>
>> For those of you who have used the Mcmaster-Carr door seals, I'm
interested in knowing how much (if any) you decided to build up the
inside of the cabin frame around the door opening? I've seen posts about
the flange ending up being too thin. I've also seen reference to gluing
the door seals in place and I'm wondering if this is because of the
thinness of the flange or if I need to plan on gluing as well.
>>
>> One more thing that I noticed in my trial fit...the seal along the
bottom of the door opening doesn't compress very much (maybe 1/16" when
the door is in the closed position. Is this adequate for the seal to
function properly in flight, or should I be looking for ways to bring
the seal closer to the door.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Mike Schipper
>> #40576 - finishing - www.rvten.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin frame and Mcmaster-Carr door seals |
>
> Another problem area appears to be around the gas strut attach
> bracket. Did you just cut the channel and keep the "bulb" intact above
> the bracket?
Exactly
Deems
>
> Thanks,
> Mike Schipper
> #40576 - finishing - www.rvten.com <http://www.rvten.com>
>
>
> On May 9, 2010, at 11:01 AM, Deems Davis wrote:
>
>> I didn't build up any portion of the cabin frame door opening. But
>> there were several places that I needed to thin the frame edges.
>> (most memorable was the corners at the top of the doors where the
>> fiberglass was extremely thick. I know others have found it necessary
>> to build them up some. I believe it is a function of 2 things:
>> 1. How you fit your doors. I don't think any 2 RV10's have the same
>> door fit.
>> 2, Also, how you go about removing the material. By that I mean,
>> since the edge of the cabin frame 'twists' as it goes from vertical
>> to horiz. you need to trim the frame so that the bulb of the seal
>> will contact the door at the same relative angle (flat). So as you
>> begin trimming the door frame at the bottom of the door the 'cut' is
>> almost at a right angle to the door channel, and as you extend up the
>> door and as the frame curves, you need to keep the cut at the same
>> relative angle. When you get to the upper corners this will result in
>> a relatively sharp and wide edge for the door seal to clamp on, as
>> opposed to the aprox 3/16" edge at the bottom.
>> The door seal material, is made of alum and wrapped in vinyl. inside
>> of the channel are 'teeth' that are there to grip on to what ever
>> material the frame is made of. (fiberglass in our case). A carefully
>> wielded rubber mallet does a good job of mating the seal to the
>> frame. HOWEVER, you will find that when you enter/exit the plane you
>> will find yourself grabbing on to the door frame.and seal. This will
>> cause the alum channel to expand and the seal will loosen. I found it
>> necessary to glue mine, I used Proseal, others have used autobody
>> trim cement.
>>
>> Deems Davis
>> N519PJ
>> www.deemsrv10.com
>>
>> On 5/9/2010 8:31 AM, Michael Schipper wrote:
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Michael Schipper<mike@learningplanet.com>
>>>
>>> For those of you who have used the Mcmaster-Carr door seals, I'm interested
in knowing how much (if any) you decided to build up the inside of the cabin
frame around the door opening? I've seen posts about the flange ending up being
too thin. I've also seen reference to gluing the door seals in place and I'm
wondering if this is because of the thinness of the flange or if I need to plan
on gluing as well.
>>>
>>> One more thing that I noticed in my trial fit...the seal along the bottom of
the door opening doesn't compress very much (maybe 1/16" when the door is in
the closed position. Is this adequate for the seal to function properly in flight,
or should I be looking for ways to bring the seal closer to the door.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Mike Schipper
>>> #40576 - finishing -www.rvten.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin frame and Mcmaster-Carr door seals |
I had to build out the flange along the bottom of the door slightly.
Also cut flange back and ran seal continously around strut.
Bill
Michael Schipper wrote:
>
> For those of you who have used the Mcmaster-Carr door seals, I'm interested in
knowing how much (if any) you decided to build up the inside of the cabin frame
around the door opening? I've seen posts about the flange ending up being
too thin. I've also seen reference to gluing the door seals in place and I'm wondering
if this is because of the thinness of the flange or if I need to plan
on gluing as well.
>
> One more thing that I noticed in my trial fit...the seal along the bottom of
the door opening doesn't compress very much (maybe 1/16" when the door is in the
closed position. Is this adequate for the seal to function properly in flight,
or should I be looking for ways to bring the seal closer to the door.
>
> Regards,
> Mike Schipper
> #40576 - finishing - www.rvten.com
>
>
>
Message 10
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The flap motor has four holes venting the inside. The Aeroflow and Andair p
umps are sealed by the looks of them.
From: dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire
The latest on VAF says they should both be OK.
I put a couple drain holes in the tunnel just forward of the spar so at lea
st a small leak wouldn't puddle.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville=2C CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Sat=2C May 8=2C 2010 at 9:00 PM=2C Perry=2C Phil <Phil.Perry@netapp.com>
wrote:
I've been watching that too... Sounds like he's burned but okay.
Not trying to speculate=2C but this event caused me to think through a
couple of topics.
Anyone know if the fuel boost pump and flap motors are explosion
resistant? If not=2C they probably should be since there are several fuel
lines that share the same enclosed airspace as both electrical items.
I was thinking this through earlier this morning and now I think the
RV-10 POH should say any smell of fuel in the cabin should immediately
mean no flaps and no boost pump.
For the record=2C I don't even know if he was operating either. Just
thinking through a gotcha scenario for the benefit of the group.
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Olson [mailto:Tim@myrv10.com]
Sent: Saturday=2C May 08=2C 2010 10:29 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire
Just caught this on VAF...
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=57715
Would be nice to hear that he's really ok=2C if anyone
knows how bad off they were.
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
le=2C List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy is not the old busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inbox
.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O
N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3
Message 11
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The engine was (?) an automotive V8 so it is unknown what the components
of the tunnel are. One could expect that the flap motor was the Vans
motor.I am going to plumb a shot of Halon to the tunnel. Also always run
a good test when cleaning the fuel filter; use fuel lube on the
fittings.
----- Original Message -----
From: Danny Riggs
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 6:20 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire
The flap motor has four holes venting the inside. The Aeroflow and
Andair pumps are sealed by the looks of them.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com
Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 07:57:50 -0700
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
The latest on VAF says they should both be OK.
I put a couple drain holes in the tunnel just forward of the spar so
at least a small leak wouldn't puddle.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 9:00 PM, Perry, Phil <Phil.Perry@netapp.com>
wrote:
<Phil.Perry@netapp.com>
I've been watching that too... Sounds like he's burned but okay.
Not trying to speculate, but this event caused me to think through a
couple of topics.
Anyone know if the fuel boost pump and flap motors are explosion
resistant? If not, they probably should be since there are several
fuel
lines that share the same enclosed airspace as both electrical
items.
I was thinking this through earlier this morning and now I think the
RV-10 POH should say any smell of fuel in the cabin should
immediately
mean no flaps and no boost pump.
For the record, I don't even know if he was operating either. Just
thinking through a gotcha scenario for the benefit of the group.
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Olson [mailto:Tim@myrv10.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 10:29 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire
Just caught this on VAF...
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=57715
Would be nice to hear that he's really ok, if anyone
knows how bad off they were.
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
==========
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
http://www.matronics.com/Navigatwww.matronics.com/contribution">http://ww
w.matronics.com/contribution
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The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your
inbox. Get started.
Message 12
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I'll have to ask Todd, but the changes I'm aware of are:
1) Fuel filter was not installed in the tunnel. Instead he opt'd
for one fuel filter in each wing root.
2) The fuel valve was a 6 port fuel valve. Which I believe is a
requirement for the LS1 and 2 engines??
It makes sense that the fuel pump would be sealed, since it's knows
it'll be flammable environment.
I just checked my flap motor and it's got 4 ports on it too - scary.
I'd like to see a sealed motor.
The tunnel area is like the bilge of an in-board boat. When fuel vapors
build up in that enclosed area and then a engine start (or some other
spark event) is attempted, the spark results in a massive explosion. It
wouldn't take too much of a leak or cracked hard aluminum line to fill
the tunnel with vapors. In fact, Todd never mentioned a rough engine or
anything that would indicate inadequate fuel making its way to the
engine.
I've been doing some research today to see if I could find (or identify
how to build) a light-weight and cheap vapor sensor that would flag a
warning light on the panel.
Phil
From: David McNeill [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net]
Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 9:53 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire
The engine was (?) an automotive V8 so it is unknown what the components
of the tunnel are. One could expect that the flap motor was the Vans
motor.I am going to plumb a shot of Halon to the tunnel. Also always run
a good test when cleaning the fuel filter; use fuel lube on the
fittings.
----- Original Message -----
From: Danny Riggs <mailto:jdriggs49@msn.com>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 6:20 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire
The flap motor has four holes venting the inside. The Aeroflow
and Andair pumps are sealed by the looks of them.
________________________________
From: dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com
Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 07:57:50 -0700
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
The latest on VAF says they should both be OK.
I put a couple drain holes in the tunnel just forward of the
spar so at least a small leak wouldn't puddle.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 9:00 PM, Perry, Phil
<Phil.Perry@netapp.com> wrote:
<Phil.Perry@netapp.com>
I've been watching that too... Sounds like he's burned but
okay.
Not trying to speculate, but this event caused me to think
through a
couple of topics.
Anyone know if the fuel boost pump and flap motors are explosion
resistant? If not, they probably should be since there are
several fuel
lines that share the same enclosed airspace as both electrical
items.
I was thinking this through earlier this morning and now I think
the
RV-10 POH should say any smell of fuel in the cabin should
immediately
mean no flaps and no boost pump.
For the record, I don't even know if he was operating either.
Just
thinking through a gotcha scenario for the benefit of the group.
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Olson [mailto:Tim@myrv10.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 10:29 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire
Just caught this on VAF...
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=57715
Would be nice to hear that he's really ok, if anyone
knows how bad off they were.
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
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Message 13
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Good idea! Any suggestions about where to get line and fittings for this?
From: dlm46007@cox.net
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire
The engine was (?) an automotive V8 so it is
unknown what the components of the tunnel are. One could expect that the fl
ap
motor was the Vans motor.I am going to plumb a shot of Halon to the tunnel.
Also
always run a good test when cleaning the fuel filter=3B use fuel lube on th
e
fittings.
----- Original Message -----
From:
Danny Riggs
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday=2C May 09=2C 2010 6:20 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire
The flap motor has four holes venting the inside. The Aeroflow
and Andair pumps are sealed by the looks of them.
From: dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com
Sun=2C 9 May 2010 07:57:50 -0700
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire
The
latest on VAF says they should both be OK.
I put a couple drain holes
in the tunnel just forward of the spar so at least a small leak wouldn't
puddle.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation
Way
Watsonville=2C CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284
Cell
On Sat=2C May 8=2C 2010 at 9:00 PM=2C Perry=2C Phil <Phil.Perry@netapp.co
m>
wrote:
--> RV10-List
message posted by: "Perry=2C Phil" <Phil.Perry@netapp.com>
I've
been watching that too... Sounds like he's burned but okay.
Not
trying to speculate=2C but this event caused me to think through a
couple
of topics.
Anyone know if the fuel boost pump and flap motors are
explosion
resistant? If not=2C they probably should be since there
are several fuel
lines that share the same enclosed airspace as both
electrical items.
I was thinking this through earlier this morning
and now I think the
RV-10 POH should say any smell of fuel in the cabin
should immediately
mean no flaps and no boost pump.
For the
record=2C I don't even know if he was operating either. Just
thinking
through a gotcha scenario for the benefit of the group.
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Olson [mailto:Tim@myrv10.com]
Sent: Saturday=2C May 08=2C
2010 10:29 PM
Subject:
RV10-List: RV-10 Fire
<Tim@myrv10.com>
Just
caught this on VAF...
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=57715
Would
be nice to hear that he's really ok=2C if anyone
knows how bad off they
were.
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not
archive
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Message 14
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Sounds like a "smell fuel then no flap switch usage from that point
forward" scenario. I am still going to add plumbing from fire bottle
(Halon) to the tunnel. Probably will use a bulkhead fitting with a cap
inside the tunnel. I will drill a 40 hole in the cap and safety it in
place.
----- Original Message -----
From: Perry, Phil
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 8:21 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire
I'll have to ask Todd, but the changes I'm aware of are:
1) Fuel filter was not installed in the tunnel. Instead he opt'd
for one fuel filter in each wing root.
2) The fuel valve was a 6 port fuel valve. Which I believe is a
requirement for the LS1 and 2 engines??
It makes sense that the fuel pump would be sealed, since it's knows
it'll be flammable environment.
I just checked my flap motor and it's got 4 ports on it too - scary.
I'd like to see a sealed motor.
The tunnel area is like the bilge of an in-board boat. When fuel
vapors build up in that enclosed area and then a engine start (or some
other spark event) is attempted, the spark results in a massive
explosion. It wouldn't take too much of a leak or cracked hard aluminum
line to fill the tunnel with vapors. In fact, Todd never mentioned a
rough engine or anything that would indicate inadequate fuel making its
way to the engine.
I've been doing some research today to see if I could find (or
identify how to build) a light-weight and cheap vapor sensor that would
flag a warning light on the panel.
Phil
From: David McNeill [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net]
Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 9:53 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire
The engine was (?) an automotive V8 so it is unknown what the
components of the tunnel are. One could expect that the flap motor was
the Vans motor.I am going to plumb a shot of Halon to the tunnel. Also
always run a good test when cleaning the fuel filter; use fuel lube on
the fittings.
----- Original Message -----
From: Danny Riggs
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 6:20 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire
The flap motor has four holes venting the inside. The Aeroflow and
Andair pumps are sealed by the looks of them.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com
Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 07:57:50 -0700
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
The latest on VAF says they should both be OK.
I put a couple drain holes in the tunnel just forward of the spar so
at least a small leak wouldn't puddle.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 9:00 PM, Perry, Phil <Phil.Perry@netapp.com>
wrote:
<Phil.Perry@netapp.com>
I've been watching that too... Sounds like he's burned but okay.
Not trying to speculate, but this event caused me to think through a
couple of topics.
Anyone know if the fuel boost pump and flap motors are explosion
resistant? If not, they probably should be since there are several
fuel
lines that share the same enclosed airspace as both electrical
items.
I was thinking this through earlier this morning and now I think the
RV-10 POH should say any smell of fuel in the cabin should
immediately
mean no flaps and no boost pump.
For the record, I don't even know if he was operating either. Just
thinking through a gotcha scenario for the benefit of the group.
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Olson [mailto:Tim@myrv10.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 10:29 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire
Just caught this on VAF...
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=57715
Would be nice to hear that he's really ok, if anyone
knows how bad off they were.
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
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arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
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Message 15
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| Subject: | RV-10 Fire and Annual results |
Phil,
Please let us know what you find wrt vapour sensors. I know I would certai
nly be interested. My experience is that if the smell builds up gradually,
you often don't notice it all. Geez, I even remember that proseal didn't
smell that bad after a lengthy session on the tanks. So a separate warning
would be good for me.
For those that may be interested, I just finished my annual. No flames on
this please, but the ONLY issue I discovered was that one of the hinge pins
securing the bottom cowl had vibrated loose in flight and disappeared some
where over Greater Sydney. I know that many (ie most) replace the bottom h
inge with a flange/nutplates, but I never got around to it. No missing or
cracked eyelets, just no pin. If you go with the Vans standard build, make
sure you lock wire the bottom pin in place.
Cheers
Ron
VH-XRM flying in Oz
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Monday, 10 May 2010 1:21 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire
I'll have to ask Todd, but the changes I'm aware of are:
1) Fuel filter was not installed in the tunnel. Instead he opt'd for
one fuel filter in each wing root.
2) The fuel valve was a 6 port fuel valve. Which I believe is a requi
rement for the LS1 and 2 engines??
It makes sense that the fuel pump would be sealed, since it's knows it'll b
e flammable environment.
I just checked my flap motor and it's got 4 ports on it too - scary. I'd l
ike to see a sealed motor.
The tunnel area is like the bilge of an in-board boat. When fuel vapors bu
ild up in that enclosed area and then a engine start (or some other spark e
vent) is attempted, the spark results in a massive explosion. It wouldn't
take too much of a leak or cracked hard aluminum line to fill the tunnel wi
th vapors. In fact, Todd never mentioned a rough engine or anything that w
ould indicate inadequate fuel making its way to the engine.
I've been doing some research today to see if I could find (or identify ho
w to build) a light-weight and cheap vapor sensor that would flag a warning
light on the panel.
Phil
From: David McNeill [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net]
Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 9:53 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire
The engine was (?) an automotive V8 so it is unknown what the components of
the tunnel are. One could expect that the flap motor was the Vans motor.I
am going to plumb a shot of Halon to the tunnel. Also always run a good tes
t when cleaning the fuel filter; use fuel lube on the fittings.
----- Original Message -----
From: Danny Riggs<mailto:jdriggs49@msn.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 6:20 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire
The flap motor has four holes venting the inside. The Aeroflow and Andair p
umps are sealed by the looks of them.
________________________________
From: dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com<mailto:dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmai
l.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire
The latest on VAF says they should both be OK.
I put a couple drain holes in the tunnel just forward of the spar so at lea
st a small leak wouldn't puddle.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 9:00 PM, Perry, Phil <Phil.Perry@netapp.com<mailto:P
hil.Perry@netapp.com>> wrote:
o:Phil.Perry@netapp.com>>
I've been watching that too... Sounds like he's burned but okay.
Not trying to speculate, but this event caused me to think through a
couple of topics.
Anyone know if the fuel boost pump and flap motors are explosion
resistant? If not, they probably should be since there are several fuel
lines that share the same enclosed airspace as both electrical items.
I was thinking this through earlier this morning and now I think the
RV-10 POH should say any smell of fuel in the cabin should immediately
mean no flaps and no boost pump.
For the record, I don't even know if he was operating either. Just
thinking through a gotcha scenario for the benefit of the group.
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Olson [mailto:Tim@myrv10.com<mailto:Tim@myrv10.com>]
Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 10:29 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire
0.com>>
Just caught this on VAF...
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=57715
Would be nice to hear that he's really ok, if anyone
knows how bad off they were.
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigatwww.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.
matronics.com/contribution
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Message 16
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I will use standard AN fittings and aluminium tubing available from
Spruce. The fire bottle is available from Stroud Fire in oklahoma city ;
I believe they have a website. mine is a 15 pound bottle and sprays over
the engine, and between the firewall and aft baffling; I will add a line
to the tunnel. cost of the system was about $250. I installed this in
the 10 because it was an option on the Glastar I built and it seemed
like a good idea on the 10. I don't like the thought of burning. I have
pictures of the install and have posted them in the past . I would
include one now but they are on another computer.
----- Original Message -----
From: Danny Riggs
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 8:29 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire
Good idea! Any suggestions about where to get line and fittings for
this?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: dlm46007@cox.net
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire
Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 19:53:05 -0700
The engine was (?) an automotive V8 so it is unknown what the
components of the tunnel are. One could expect that the flap motor was
the Vans motor.I am going to plumb a shot of Halon to the tunnel. Also
always run a good test when cleaning the fuel filter; use fuel lube on
the fittings.
----- Original Message -----
From: Danny Riggs
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 6:20 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire
The flap motor has four holes venting the inside. The Aeroflow and
Andair pumps are sealed by the looks of them.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com
Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 07:57:50 -0700
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
The latest on VAF says they should both be OK.
I put a couple drain holes in the tunnel just forward of the spar so
at least a small leak wouldn't puddle.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 9:00 PM, Perry, Phil <Phil.Perry@netapp.com>
wrote:
<Phil.Perry@netapp.com>
I've been watching that too... Sounds like he's burned but okay.
Not trying to speculate, but this event caused me to think through
a
couple of topics.
Anyone know if the fuel boost pump and flap motors are explosion
resistant? If not, they probably should be since there are
several fuel
lines that share the same enclosed airspace as both electrical
items.
I was thinking this through earlier this morning and now I think
the
RV-10 POH should say any smell of fuel in the cabin should
immediately
mean no flaps and no boost pump.
For the record, I don't even know if he was operating either.
Just
thinking through a gotcha scenario for the benefit of the group.
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Olson [mailto:Tim@myrv10.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 10:29 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Fire
Just caught this on VAF...
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=57715
Would be nice to hear that he's really ok, if anyone
knows how bad off they were.
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
==========
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
http://www.matronics.com/Navigatwww.matronics.com/contribution">http://ww
w.matronics.com/contribution
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
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inbox. Get started.
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Message 17
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| Subject: | Ray Allen position sensor for flaps |
I installed the showplane flap system and I am running through ideas on whe
re to mount my Ray Allen Pos 12 sensor so my AFS EFIS can display flap posi
tion.
Can anyone direct me to their photos or post a few.
Thanks=2C
JOhn G
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Ray Allen position sensor for flaps |
Hey John,
Here's what we did. Others have suggested using threaded rod with a
yoke (model airplane connectors) which is a good idea. But there is
still some fiddling to do to get the range of throw right. The sensor
itself apparently is less accurate at the end limits, so keep that in
mind.
Later, - Lew
----- Original Message -----
From: John Gonzalez
To: RV 10 group
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 12:46 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Ray Allen position sensor for flaps
I installed the showplane flap system and I am running through ideas
on where to mount my Ray Allen Pos 12 sensor so my AFS EFIS can display
flap position.
Can anyone direct me to their photos or post a few.
Thanks,
JOhn G
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Ray Allen position sensor for flaps |
Here's what several of us have done... seems to work just fine... 2 of us w
ith AFS 3500's.
Don
--- On Sun, 5/9/10, John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo@msn.com> wrote:
From: John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
Subject: RV10-List: Ray Allen position sensor for flaps
I installed the showplane flap system and I am running through ideas on whe
re to mount my Ray Allen Pos 12 sensor so my AFS EFIS can display flap posi
tion.-
Can anyone direct me to their photos or post a few.-
Thanks,
JOhn G
=0A=0A=0A
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