Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:51 AM - rivets... (Tony Woods)
2. 02:33 AM - Re: rivets... (Jack Phillips)
3. 04:53 AM - Re: rivets... (Jesse Saint)
4. 05:03 AM - Re: rivets... (tsts4)
5. 05:46 AM - Re: rivets... (rbibb@tomet.net)
6. 05:51 AM - Re: rivets... (Kelly McMullen)
7. 06:26 AM - Re: rivets... (Linn Walters)
8. 06:33 AM - Re: rivets... (Richard Martin)
9. 09:13 AM - Re: rivets... (Bob Turner)
10. 09:50 AM - Re: rivets... (rwendell@hydro-splash.com)
11. 10:54 AM - Re: New taxi procedures at controlled airports (Chuck Weyant)
12. 11:11 AM - Re: New taxi procedures at controlled airports (Sean Stephens)
13. 11:35 AM - Re: New taxi procedures at controlled airports (rwendell@hydro-splash.com)
14. 11:37 AM - Re: New taxi procedures at controlled airports (Bill Mauledriver Watson)
15. 12:12 PM - Re: New taxi procedures at controlled airports (Chuck Weyant)
16. 01:37 PM - Re: New taxi procedures at controlled airports (Kelly McMullen)
17. 01:37 PM - Re: New taxi procedures at controlled airports (Linn Walters)
18. 01:37 PM - Re: New taxi procedures at controlled airports (David Maib)
19. 02:34 PM - Oil Temps (bill@airflow)
20. 02:44 PM - Re: rivets... (Tony Woods)
21. 04:49 PM - audio cable near battery cable- any issues? (Pascal)
22. 05:06 PM - Re: audio cable near battery cable- any issues? (Linn Walters)
23. 05:06 PM - Test (Alan Bikle)
24. 05:06 PM - Test (Alan Bikle)
25. 05:41 PM - Re: rivets... (Tony Woods)
26. 06:02 PM - Re: rivets... (tsts4)
27. 07:09 PM - Re: rivets... (Kelly McMullen)
28. 07:23 PM - Re: rivets... (David Maib)
29. 07:44 PM - Re: rivets... (Tony Woods)
30. 09:51 PM - Re: Cowl Flaps (Nick Nafsinger)
31. 10:39 PM - Re: Re: Cowl Flaps (Tom Koelzer)
32. 11:06 PM - Re: Re: Cowl Flaps (Robin Marks)
33. 11:09 PM - Official RV10-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
34. 11:14 PM - Official RV10-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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Ok. I worked out how to use the rivet squeezer, and have built my VS
skeleton. So far so good. Now I=99m fixing the skin, and wanted
to pause to get a few words of advice on how I rivet into areas where I
can't use the squeezer. OK =93 Enter the mysterious bucking bar
right? I guess I place this bucking bar against the exterior skin, a
flat tungsten surface, and then reach inside the VS to use the rivet gun
to hammer the protruding stub and form the head?
Man, do I sound like a newbee yet?
Tony
Message 2
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At this point in time, if you do not have a local EAA chapter with a
Technical Counselor who can teach you, I would strongly suggest you plan a
trip to Oshkosh around the end of this month and go to as many of the forums
on sheet metal work as you can. You will learn a lot there, that will be
invaluable as you move forward with this project.
Van's gives some instruction on riveting techniques in the builders manual,
and there is a lot more information available from EAA, including a recently
issued book on sheetmetal work, but it's hard to teach through a book
something that requires as much "feel" as riveting. Participating in a
hands-on clinic at OSH is the quickest way to learn. If you are going to
invest $100K + in building this airplane, the cost of a trip to OSH, even if
you can only go for a day or two, is money well spent.
Jack Phillips
# 40610 - wings (but lately spending all my time working on my hangar)
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony Woods
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 3:24 AM
Subject: RV10-List: rivets...
Ok. I worked out how to use the rivet squeezer, and have built my VS
skeleton. So far so good. Now I'm fixing the skin, and wanted to pause to
get a few words of advice on how I rivet into areas where I can't use the
squeezer. OK - Enter the mysterious bucking bar right? I guess I place
this bucking bar against the exterior skin, a flat tungsten surface, and
then reach inside the VS to use the rivet gun to hammer the protruding stub
and form the head?
Man, do I sound like a newbee yet?
Tony
Message 3
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Where are you located? If you are near another RV-builder (and you
can't make it to Oshkosh), then I'd suggest getting someone locally to
help you (or you help them) for a day or two so you can get the hang of
it.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
On Jul 1, 2010, at 3:23 AM, Tony Woods wrote:
> Ok. I worked out how to use the rivet squeezer, and have built my VS
skeleton. So far so good. Now I=92m fixing the skin, and wanted to
pause to get a few words of advice on how I rivet into areas where I
can't use the squeezer. OK ' Enter the mysterious bucking bar right?
I guess I place this bucking bar against the exterior skin, a flat
tungsten surface, and then reach inside the VS to use the rivet gun to
hammer the protruding stub and form the head?
>
> Man, do I sound like a newbee yet?
>
> Tony
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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> I guess I place this bucking bar against the exterior skin, a flat tungsten surface,
and then reach inside the VS to use the rivet gun to hammer the protruding
stub and form the head
Tony,
For normal riveting, you would do just the opposite. Place the rivet set of the gun against the manufactured head and skin, and the bucking bar against the "tail" (the protuding stub) to form the shop head. What you describe is called back riveting and requires a special back riveting set with a spring loaded collar. In any event, practice on some scrap first. As Jack said, try and find another builder or tech counselor to give you some hands-on (riveting is not hard just takes practice) and check out these videos from EAA: http://eaa.org/video/homebuilders.html lots of good info there.
Also make sure you're not using too much air pressure. I run about 35-40 psi for
an AN426-3-3 to 3-5 rivet for a 3X gun. For 4-x rivets I go up to 60 psi.
--------
Todd Stovall
728TT (reserved)
RV-10 Empacone, Wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303238#303238
Message 5
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Its not a hard skill to acquire but I wouldn't plan on learning it on your
airplane. Get some scrap Aluminum, drill soem holes, rivet until you gain
confidence. Shouldn't take long to gain confidence. That's how I did it
on my RV-4 years ago. Advantage of the -4 was there was lost's of scrap
aluminum to play with....
> Ok. I worked out how to use the rivet squeezer, and have built my VS
> skeleton. So far so good. Now Im fixing the skin, and wanted to
> pause to get a few words of advice on how I rivet into areas where I
> can't use the squeezer. OK Enter the mysterious bucking bar right? I
> guess I place this bucking bar against the exterior skin, a flat tungsten
> surface, and then reach inside the VS to use the rivet gun to hammer the
> protruding stub and form the head?
>
>
> Man, do I sound like a newbee yet?
>
>
> Tony
>
>
Message 6
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You have already received some good suggestions. If you give in your
signature your airport or other general location, you might be surprised
how many RV's are under construction, with builders ready to help each
other. Get some scrap aluminum, and take a couple pieces. Start drilling
and dimpling them, so you can practice riveting. You can just put them
in a vice to hold them. If you don't already have a back rivet plate and
back rivet set for your rivet gun, you will want them. Like a squeezer,
wherever you can back rivet, you will want to do so, because it gives
such nice results with low risk of marks and "smileys". However you
plan to rivet two pieces together, try that method out on your scrap
pieces first, until you are happy with how the practice pieces come out.
That is how you test your air pressure, your technique for holding the
specific bucking bar, how long a burst from the gun you need, etc.
Kelly
KCHD
EAA Tech Counselor
kit 40866
On 7/1/2010 12:23 AM, Tony Woods wrote:
>
> Ok. I worked out how to use the rivet squeezer, and have built my VS
> skeleton. So far so good. Now Im fixing the skin, and wanted to
> pause to get a few words of advice on how I rivet into areas where I
> can't use the squeezer. OK Enter the mysterious bucking bar right?
> I guess I place this bucking bar against the exterior skin, a flat
> tungsten surface, and then reach inside the VS to use the rivet gun to
> hammer the protruding stub and form the head?
>
> Man, do I sound like a newbee yet?
>
> Tony
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 7
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The suggestion to find an EAA chapter/members is the best guidance
you'll get at this point ..... even if you have to drive a ways.
You'll get the benefits of a tech counselor and a flight adviser if they
have one. And members love to help each other.
The second best 'learning tool' is Vans toolbox. Especially if you
don't have any riveting experience.
I bought one (and put it together) even though I'd done hard rivets
years ago. I actually use mine to carry tools in!!
Linn
do not archive
rbibb@tomet.net wrote:
>
> Its not a hard skill to acquire but I wouldn't plan on learning it on your
> airplane. Get some scrap Aluminum, drill soem holes, rivet until you gain
> confidence. Shouldn't take long to gain confidence. That's how I did it
> on my RV-4 years ago. Advantage of the -4 was there was lost's of scrap
> aluminum to play with....
>
>
>> Ok. I worked out how to use the rivet squeezer, and have built my VS
>> skeleton. So far so good. Now IEUR^(TM)m fixing the skin, and wanted to
>> pause to get a few words of advice on how I rivet into areas where I
>> can't use the squeezer. OK EUR" Enter the mysterious bucking bar right? I
>> guess I place this bucking bar against the exterior skin, a flat tungsten
>> surface, and then reach inside the VS to use the rivet gun to hammer the
>> protruding stub and form the head?
>>
>>
>>
>> Man, do I sound like a newbee yet?
>>
>>
>>
>> Tony
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 8
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Tony,
You have the general idea, however you need a little more education. You
are describing the back riviting method that works well on a large flat
surface such as a table. I would suggest that you learn the air force
method of riviting for wat you want to do. I will try to describe briefly
what to do. The rivit gun with a flat driver should be used on the rivit
head outside of the exterior skin and the bucking bar inside.
Start by placing the bar alongside of the rivit contacting the skin. You
begin by applying very light tings with the driver to the rivit head. This
will pull the skins tight. Next give the rivit a very short hit which will
expand the rivit a few thousants and hold the sheets together. Next,
give the rivit gun final hit that will finish the rivit and create a buck
tail. The buck tail should be approximately 0ne and a half times the
diameter of the rivit. Note: a bargain basement rivit gun will usually
produce lousy jobs. There is no cheap way out. I would suggest either
Avery or Cleveland for rivit tools.
If you wish to discuss this, call me @ 920 619 6968
Dick Martin
RV8 N233M
the fast one,
1, 2010 at 2:23 AM, Tony Woods <twoods@sesa.af> wrote:
> Ok. I worked out how to use the rivet squeezer, and have built my VS
> skeleton. So far so good. Now I=92m fixing the skin, and wanted to pau
se to
> get a few words of advice on how I rivet into areas where I can't use th
e
> squeezer. OK ' Enter the mysterious bucking bar right? I guess I plac
e
> this bucking bar against the exterior skin, a flat tungsten surface, and
> then reach inside the VS to use the rivet gun to hammer the protruding st
ub
> and form the head?
>
>
> Man, do I sound like a newbee yet?
>
>
> Tony
>
> *
>
===========
>
===========
===========
===========
>
> *
>
>
Message 9
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Since this is basic instruction:
It's obvious once you learn the skill; Dick (above) didn't explicitly say it, but
you need to move the bucking bar to the rivet tail after the first light tap
to set the skins together. Hold the bar firmly and square to the rivet tail;
but apply more pressure to the gun than the bucking bar, or else the rivet will
back out.
Also, never pull the gun away until after you've released the trigger. I'm sure
we've all learned that the hard way!
Finally, back-riveting is easier to do with less cosmetic damage than "normal"
riveting. Unfortunately you often can't get at the tail with the gun. Buy a special
back-rivet set tool, and a massive steel plate for the front side. Any steel
plate will do, you don't have to get a special one.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303311#303311
Message 10
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R28gdG8gdGhlIEVBQSB3ZWJzaXRlIGFuZCB3YXRjaCB0aGUgdmlkZW9zIHZlcnkgaGVscGZ1bA0K
U2VudCBmcm9tIG15IFZlcml6b24gV2lyZWxlc3MgQmxhY2tCZXJyeQ0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFs
IE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogIlRvbnkgV29vZHMiIDx0d29vZHNAc2VzYS5hZj4NClNlbmRl
cjogb3duZXItcnYxMC1saXN0LXNlcnZlckBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tDQpEYXRlOiBUaHUsIDEgSnVs
IDIwMTAgMTk6MjM6MzMgDQpUbzogPHJ2MTAtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tPg0KUmVwbHktVG86
IHJ2MTAtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tDQpTdWJqZWN0OiBSVjEwLUxpc3Q6IHJpdmV0cy4uLg0K
DQpUaGlzIGlzIGEgbXVsdGktcGFydCBtZXNzYWdlIGluIE1JTUUgZm9ybWF0Lg0KDQo
Message 11
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| Subject: | New taxi procedures at controlled airports |
No it's not a good thing! Extra verbage for detailed taxi instructions? We
don't need that and controllers don't need that. Screw-up's will still
occur. Controllers will still get it wrong from time-to-time and pilots
will still hear it wrong --- from time-to-time. It's sissified female
dominated FAA at its best --- again. Oh for the good 'ol days of manly
controllers. And what's so damn hard to understand "taxi too Runway
three-zero"?
I'm a retired air traffic controller (who worked some big facilities) and
used "taxi into position" a lot to expedite traffic. Now I hold on the
ground with my nine heating up plugs fowling up burning excess fuel because
the controller can't cock the runway because some sissy at headquarters
thinks a controller doesn't have the ability to remember I'm there. Stupid,
pathetic and demeaning to our wonderful controllers! God, this country is
turning into a sissified-touchy-feely mess.
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
I like this a lot, not that it matters now.
I was in the habit of volunteering every runway cross when cleared to
some other point. Never, ever got a hint of anything from ATC but
"that's a good thing to do, no problem".
Looking forward to sitting up higher in the '10.
Now it's mandatory and a good thing.
Bill
Marcus Cooper wrote:
>
> At little off topic but in case the word is slow to get out a new
procedure
> takes effect on 30 Jun this may help. No longer will you ever be cleared
to
> taxi to a runway that involves crossing other runways along the way. Not
a
> big deal as you just follow their clearance and you are good to go, you
just
> might realize more stop and go and unused runways. Here's the info from
the
> FAA
(http://www.faa.gov/airports/runway_safety/news/current_events/taxi_to/
> ):
>
> Explicit Runway Crossing Procedure Change
> Beginning June 30, 2010, controllers will be required to issue explicit
> instructions to cross or hold short of each runway that intersects a taxi
> route.
> "Taxi to" will no longer be used when issuing taxi instructions to an
> assigned take-off runway.
> Instructions to cross a runway will be issued one at a time. Instructions
to
> cross multiple runways will not be issued. An aircraft or vehicle must
have
> crossed the previous runway before another runway crossing is issued.
> This applies to any runway including inactive or closed runways.
> Changes will also be made to the AIM and AIP to reflect the new
procedures.
> Never cross a hold line without explicit ATC instructions. If in doubt
ASK!
> Reminder: You may not enter a runway unless you have been: instructed to
> cross that specific runway; cleared to take off from that runway; or
> instructed to position and hold on that specific runway.
> For more information on the change, refer to FAA Order N JO 7110.532,
which
> can be found at:
> http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Notice/N7110.532.pdf.
>
> For additional information, go to http://www.faa.gov/go/runwaysafety
>
> Marcus
> 40286
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: New taxi procedures at controlled airports |
I agree. Women have no place in government organizations. While we are
at it, I think we should take away their right to vote.
Just kidding of course. :)
-Sean #40303 Fuse building male.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
On 7/1/10 12:47 PM, Chuck Weyant wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Chuck Weyant"<chuck@chuckdirect.com>
>
> No it's not a good thing! Extra verbage for detailed taxi instructions? We
> don't need that and controllers don't need that. Screw-up's will still
> occur. Controllers will still get it wrong from time-to-time and pilots
> will still hear it wrong --- from time-to-time. It's sissified female
> dominated FAA at its best --- again. Oh for the good 'ol days of manly
> controllers. And what's so damn hard to understand "taxi too Runway
> three-zero"?
>
> I'm a retired air traffic controller (who worked some big facilities) and
> used "taxi into position" a lot to expedite traffic. Now I hold on the
> ground with my nine heating up plugs fowling up burning excess fuel because
> the controller can't cock the runway because some sissy at headquarters
> thinks a controller doesn't have the ability to remember I'm there. Stupid,
> pathetic and demeaning to our wonderful controllers! God, this country is
> turning into a sissified-touchy-feely mess.
> Chuck
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> I like this a lot, not that it matters now.
>
> I was in the habit of volunteering every runway cross when cleared to
> some other point. Never, ever got a hint of anything from ATC but
> "that's a good thing to do, no problem".
>
> Looking forward to sitting up higher in the '10.
>
> Now it's mandatory and a good thing.
>
> Bill
>
> Marcus Cooper wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Marcus Cooper"<coop85@verizon.net>
>>
>> At little off topic but in case the word is slow to get out a new
>>
> procedure
>
>> takes effect on 30 Jun this may help. No longer will you ever be cleared
>>
> to
>
>> taxi to a runway that involves crossing other runways along the way. Not
>>
> a
>
>> big deal as you just follow their clearance and you are good to go, you
>>
> just
>
>> might realize more stop and go and unused runways. Here's the info from
>>
> the
>
>> FAA
>>
> (http://www.faa.gov/airports/runway_safety/news/current_events/taxi_to/
>
>> ):
>>
>> Explicit Runway Crossing Procedure Change
>> Beginning June 30, 2010, controllers will be required to issue explicit
>> instructions to cross or hold short of each runway that intersects a taxi
>> route.
>> "Taxi to" will no longer be used when issuing taxi instructions to an
>> assigned take-off runway.
>> Instructions to cross a runway will be issued one at a time. Instructions
>>
> to
>
>> cross multiple runways will not be issued. An aircraft or vehicle must
>>
> have
>
>> crossed the previous runway before another runway crossing is issued.
>> This applies to any runway including inactive or closed runways.
>> Changes will also be made to the AIM and AIP to reflect the new
>>
> procedures.
>
>> Never cross a hold line without explicit ATC instructions. If in doubt
>>
> ASK!
>
>> Reminder: You may not enter a runway unless you have been: instructed to
>> cross that specific runway; cleared to take off from that runway; or
>> instructed to position and hold on that specific runway.
>> For more information on the change, refer to FAA Order N JO 7110.532,
>>
> which
>
>> can be found at:
>> http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Notice/N7110.532.pdf.
>>
>> For additional information, go to http://www.faa.gov/go/runwaysafety
>>
>> Marcus
>> 40286
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: New taxi procedures at controlled airports |
And what about the Irish
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Sean Stephens <sean@stephensville.com>
Sender: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: New taxi procedures at controlled airports
I agree. Women have no place in government organizations. While we are
at it, I think we should take away their right to vote.
Just kidding of course. :)
-Sean #40303 Fuse building male.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
On 7/1/10 12:47 PM, Chuck Weyant wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Chuck Weyant"<chuck@chuckdirect.com>
>
> No it's not a good thing! Extra verbage for detailed taxi instructions? We
> don't need that and controllers don't need that. Screw-up's will still
> occur. Controllers will still get it wrong from time-to-time and pilots
> will still hear it wrong --- from time-to-time. It's sissified female
> dominated FAA at its best --- again. Oh for the good 'ol days of manly
> controllers. And what's so damn hard to understand "taxi too Runway
> three-zero"?
>
> I'm a retired air traffic controller (who worked some big facilities) and
> used "taxi into position" a lot to expedite traffic. Now I hold on the
> ground with my nine heating up plugs fowling up burning excess fuel because
> the controller can't cock the runway because some sissy at headquarters
> thinks a controller doesn't have the ability to remember I'm there. Stupid,
> pathetic and demeaning to our wonderful controllers! God, this country is
> turning into a sissified-touchy-feely mess.
> Chuck
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> I like this a lot, not that it matters now.
>
> I was in the habit of volunteering every runway cross when cleared to
> some other point. Never, ever got a hint of anything from ATC but
> "that's a good thing to do, no problem".
>
> Looking forward to sitting up higher in the '10.
>
> Now it's mandatory and a good thing.
>
> Bill
>
> Marcus Cooper wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Marcus Cooper"<coop85@verizon.net>
>>
>> At little off topic but in case the word is slow to get out a new
>>
> procedure
>
>> takes effect on 30 Jun this may help. No longer will you ever be cleared
>>
> to
>
>> taxi to a runway that involves crossing other runways along the way. Not
>>
> a
>
>> big deal as you just follow their clearance and you are good to go, you
>>
> just
>
>> might realize more stop and go and unused runways. Here's the info from
>>
> the
>
>> FAA
>>
> (http://www.faa.gov/airports/runway_safety/news/current_events/taxi_to/
>
>> ):
>>
>> Explicit Runway Crossing Procedure Change
>> Beginning June 30, 2010, controllers will be required to issue explicit
>> instructions to cross or hold short of each runway that intersects a taxi
>> route.
>> "Taxi to" will no longer be used when issuing taxi instructions to an
>> assigned take-off runway.
>> Instructions to cross a runway will be issued one at a time. Instructions
>>
> to
>
>> cross multiple runways will not be issued. An aircraft or vehicle must
>>
> have
>
>> crossed the previous runway before another runway crossing is issued.
>> This applies to any runway including inactive or closed runways.
>> Changes will also be made to the AIM and AIP to reflect the new
>>
> procedures.
>
>> Never cross a hold line without explicit ATC instructions. If in doubt
>>
> ASK!
>
>> Reminder: You may not enter a runway unless you have been: instructed to
>> cross that specific runway; cleared to take off from that runway; or
>> instructed to position and hold on that specific runway.
>> For more information on the change, refer to FAA Order N JO 7110.532,
>>
> which
>
>> can be found at:
>> http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Notice/N7110.532.pdf.
>>
>> For additional information, go to http://www.faa.gov/go/runwaysafety
>>
>> Marcus
>> 40286
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: New taxi procedures at controlled airports |
Have a cup of tea on me.
Chuck Weyant wrote:
>
> No it's not a good thing! Extra verbage for detailed taxi instructions? We
> don't need that and controllers don't need that. Screw-up's will still
> occur. Controllers will still get it wrong from time-to-time and pilots
> will still hear it wrong --- from time-to-time. It's sissified female
> dominated FAA at its best --- again. Oh for the good 'ol days of manly
> controllers. And what's so damn hard to understand "taxi too Runway
> three-zero"?
>
> I'm a retired air traffic controller (who worked some big facilities) and
> used "taxi into position" a lot to expedite traffic. Now I hold on the
> ground with my nine heating up plugs fowling up burning excess fuel because
> the controller can't cock the runway because some sissy at headquarters
> thinks a controller doesn't have the ability to remember I'm there. Stupid,
> pathetic and demeaning to our wonderful controllers! God, this country is
> turning into a sissified-touchy-feely mess.
> Chuck
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> I like this a lot, not that it matters now.
>
> I was in the habit of volunteering every runway cross when cleared to
> some other point. Never, ever got a hint of anything from ATC but
> "that's a good thing to do, no problem".
>
> Looking forward to sitting up higher in the '10.
>
> Now it's mandatory and a good thing.
>
> Bill
>
> Marcus Cooper wrote:
>
>>
>> At little off topic but in case the word is slow to get out a new
>>
> procedure
>
>> takes effect on 30 Jun this may help. No longer will you ever be cleared
>>
> to
>
>> taxi to a runway that involves crossing other runways along the way. Not
>>
> a
>
>> big deal as you just follow their clearance and you are good to go, you
>>
> just
>
>> might realize more stop and go and unused runways. Here's the info from
>>
> the
>
>> FAA
>>
> (http://www.faa.gov/airports/runway_safety/news/current_events/taxi_to/
>
>> ):
>>
>> Explicit Runway Crossing Procedure Change
>> Beginning June 30, 2010, controllers will be required to issue explicit
>> instructions to cross or hold short of each runway that intersects a taxi
>> route.
>> "Taxi to" will no longer be used when issuing taxi instructions to an
>> assigned take-off runway.
>> Instructions to cross a runway will be issued one at a time. Instructions
>>
> to
>
>> cross multiple runways will not be issued. An aircraft or vehicle must
>>
> have
>
>> crossed the previous runway before another runway crossing is issued.
>> This applies to any runway including inactive or closed runways.
>> Changes will also be made to the AIM and AIP to reflect the new
>>
> procedures.
>
>> Never cross a hold line without explicit ATC instructions. If in doubt
>>
> ASK!
>
>> Reminder: You may not enter a runway unless you have been: instructed to
>> cross that specific runway; cleared to take off from that runway; or
>> instructed to position and hold on that specific runway.
>> For more information on the change, refer to FAA Order N JO 7110.532,
>>
> which
>
>> can be found at:
>> http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Notice/N7110.532.pdf.
>>
>> For additional information, go to http://www.faa.gov/go/runwaysafety
>>
>> Marcus
>> 40286
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | New taxi procedures at controlled airports |
Typical
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Mauledriver
Watson
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: New taxi procedures at controlled airports
<MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
Have a cup of tea on me.
Chuck Weyant wrote:
>
> No it's not a good thing! Extra verbage for detailed taxi instructions?
We
> don't need that and controllers don't need that. Screw-up's will still
> occur. Controllers will still get it wrong from time-to-time and pilots
> will still hear it wrong --- from time-to-time. It's sissified female
> dominated FAA at its best --- again. Oh for the good 'ol days of manly
> controllers. And what's so damn hard to understand "taxi too Runway
> three-zero"?
>
> I'm a retired air traffic controller (who worked some big facilities) and
> used "taxi into position" a lot to expedite traffic. Now I hold on the
> ground with my nine heating up plugs fowling up burning excess fuel
because
> the controller can't cock the runway because some sissy at headquarters
> thinks a controller doesn't have the ability to remember I'm there.
Stupid,
> pathetic and demeaning to our wonderful controllers! God, this country is
> turning into a sissified-touchy-feely mess.
> Chuck
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> I like this a lot, not that it matters now.
>
> I was in the habit of volunteering every runway cross when cleared to
> some other point. Never, ever got a hint of anything from ATC but
> "that's a good thing to do, no problem".
>
> Looking forward to sitting up higher in the '10.
>
> Now it's mandatory and a good thing.
>
> Bill
>
> Marcus Cooper wrote:
>
>>
>> At little off topic but in case the word is slow to get out a new
>>
> procedure
>
>> takes effect on 30 Jun this may help. No longer will you ever be cleared
>>
> to
>
>> taxi to a runway that involves crossing other runways along the way. Not
>>
> a
>
>> big deal as you just follow their clearance and you are good to go, you
>>
> just
>
>> might realize more stop and go and unused runways. Here's the info from
>>
> the
>
>> FAA
>>
> (http://www.faa.gov/airports/runway_safety/news/current_events/taxi_to/
>
>> ):
>>
>> Explicit Runway Crossing Procedure Change
>> Beginning June 30, 2010, controllers will be required to issue explicit
>> instructions to cross or hold short of each runway that intersects a taxi
>> route.
>> "Taxi to" will no longer be used when issuing taxi instructions to an
>> assigned take-off runway.
>> Instructions to cross a runway will be issued one at a time. Instructions
>>
> to
>
>> cross multiple runways will not be issued. An aircraft or vehicle must
>>
> have
>
>> crossed the previous runway before another runway crossing is issued.
>> This applies to any runway including inactive or closed runways.
>> Changes will also be made to the AIM and AIP to reflect the new
>>
> procedures.
>
>> Never cross a hold line without explicit ATC instructions. If in doubt
>>
> ASK!
>
>> Reminder: You may not enter a runway unless you have been: instructed to
>> cross that specific runway; cleared to take off from that runway; or
>> instructed to position and hold on that specific runway.
>> For more information on the change, refer to FAA Order N JO 7110.532,
>>
> which
>
>> can be found at:
>> http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Notice/N7110.532.pdf.
>>
>> For additional information, go to http://www.faa.gov/go/runwaysafety
>>
>> Marcus
>> 40286
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: New taxi procedures at controlled airports |
Agree, except for the female part. I worked with several female
controllers who were every bit as good as their male counterparts.
Don't need the detailed instructions, don't need the verbatim
readbacks of non-ifr clearances. Pilots doing readbacks are behaving
like parrots and what they readback doesn't sink in at all.
But ATC will never be the well oiled machine it was before the strike.
What do you mean I can't put 3 small aircraft on the runway at the
same time and run IFR arrivals at 2 3/4 mi separation! ;-)
On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Chuck Weyant <chuck@chuckdirect.com> wrote:
>
> No it's not a good thing! Extra verbage for detailed taxi instructions? We
> don't need that and controllers don't need that. Screw-up's will still
> occur. Controllers will still get it wrong from time-to-time and pilots
> will still hear it wrong --- from time-to-time. It's sissified female
> dominated FAA at its best --- again. Oh for the good 'ol days of manly
> controllers. And what's so damn hard to understand "taxi too Runway
> three-zero"?
>
> I'm a retired air traffic controller (who worked some big facilities) and
> used "taxi into position" a lot to expedite traffic. Now I hold on the
> ground with my nine heating up plugs fowling up burning excess fuel because
> the controller can't cock the runway because some sissy at headquarters
> thinks a controller doesn't have the ability to remember I'm there. Stupid,
> pathetic and demeaning to our wonderful controllers! God, this country is
> turning into a sissified-touchy-feely mess.
> Chuck
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> I like this a lot, not that it matters now.
>
> I was in the habit of volunteering every runway cross when cleared to
> some other point. Never, ever got a hint of anything from ATC but
> "that's a good thing to do, no problem".
>
> Looking forward to sitting up higher in the '10.
>
> Now it's mandatory and a good thing.
>
> Bill
>
> Marcus Cooper wrote:
>>
>> At little off topic but in case the word is slow to get out a new
> procedure
>> takes effect on 30 Jun this may help. No longer will you ever be cleared
> to
>> taxi to a runway that involves crossing other runways along the way. Not
> a
>> big deal as you just follow their clearance and you are good to go, you
> just
>> might realize more stop and go and unused runways. Here's the info from
> the
>> FAA
> (http://www.faa.gov/airports/runway_safety/news/current_events/taxi_to/
>> ):
>>
>> Explicit Runway Crossing Procedure Change
>> Beginning June 30, 2010, controllers will be required to issue explicit
>> instructions to cross or hold short of each runway that intersects a taxi
>> route.
>> "Taxi to" will no longer be used when issuing taxi instructions to an
>> assigned take-off runway.
>> Instructions to cross a runway will be issued one at a time. Instructions
> to
>> cross multiple runways will not be issued. An aircraft or vehicle must
> have
>> crossed the previous runway before another runway crossing is issued.
>> This applies to any runway including inactive or closed runways.
>> Changes will also be made to the AIM and AIP to reflect the new
> procedures.
>> Never cross a hold line without explicit ATC instructions. If in doubt
> ASK!
>> Reminder: You may not enter a runway unless you have been: instructed to
>> cross that specific runway; cleared to take off from that runway; or
>> instructed to position and hold on that specific runway.
>> For more information on the change, refer to FAA Order N JO 7110.532,
> which
>> can be found at:
>> http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Notice/N7110.532.pdf.
>>
>> For additional information, go to http://www.faa.gov/go/runwaysafety
>>
>> Marcus
>> 40286
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: New taxi procedures at controlled airports |
AMEN Chuck! However, it'll give the FAA reason to hire more guys for
ground control, and extra frequencies ...... Oh, wait .... The FAA is
contracting out the towers.
Here I sit in my Pitts .... nothing to write with or on .... and I get 7
taxiways that I'm supposed to remember and read back ........ Ah yes,
give me the 'good old days'!!!
Linn
do not archive
Chuck Weyant wrote:
>
> No it's not a good thing! Extra verbage for detailed taxi instructions? We
> don't need that and controllers don't need that. Screw-up's will still
> occur. Controllers will still get it wrong from time-to-time and pilots
> will still hear it wrong --- from time-to-time. It's sissified female
> dominated FAA at its best --- again. Oh for the good 'ol days of manly
> controllers. And what's so damn hard to understand "taxi too Runway
> three-zero"?
>
> I'm a retired air traffic controller (who worked some big facilities) and
> used "taxi into position" a lot to expedite traffic. Now I hold on the
> ground with my nine heating up plugs fowling up burning excess fuel because
> the controller can't cock the runway because some sissy at headquarters
> thinks a controller doesn't have the ability to remember I'm there. Stupid,
> pathetic and demeaning to our wonderful controllers! God, this country is
> turning into a sissified-touchy-feely mess.
> Chuck
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> I like this a lot, not that it matters now.
>
> I was in the habit of volunteering every runway cross when cleared to
> some other point. Never, ever got a hint of anything from ATC but
> "that's a good thing to do, no problem".
>
> Looking forward to sitting up higher in the '10.
>
> Now it's mandatory and a good thing.
>
> Bill
>
> Marcus Cooper wrote:
>
>>
>> At little off topic but in case the word is slow to get out a new
>>
> procedure
>
>> takes effect on 30 Jun this may help. No longer will you ever be cleared
>>
> to
>
>> taxi to a runway that involves crossing other runways along the way. Not
>>
> a
>
>> big deal as you just follow their clearance and you are good to go, you
>>
> just
>
>> might realize more stop and go and unused runways. Here's the info from
>>
> the
>
>> FAA
>>
> (http://www.faa.gov/airports/runway_safety/news/current_events/taxi_to/
>
>> ):
>>
>> Explicit Runway Crossing Procedure Change
>> Beginning June 30, 2010, controllers will be required to issue explicit
>> instructions to cross or hold short of each runway that intersects a taxi
>> route.
>> "Taxi to" will no longer be used when issuing taxi instructions to an
>> assigned take-off runway.
>> Instructions to cross a runway will be issued one at a time. Instructions
>>
> to
>
>> cross multiple runways will not be issued. An aircraft or vehicle must
>>
> have
>
>> crossed the previous runway before another runway crossing is issued.
>> This applies to any runway including inactive or closed runways.
>> Changes will also be made to the AIM and AIP to reflect the new
>>
> procedures.
>
>> Never cross a hold line without explicit ATC instructions. If in doubt
>>
> ASK!
>
>> Reminder: You may not enter a runway unless you have been: instructed to
>> cross that specific runway; cleared to take off from that runway; or
>> instructed to position and hold on that specific runway.
>> For more information on the change, refer to FAA Order N JO 7110.532,
>>
> which
>
>> can be found at:
>> http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Notice/N7110.532.pdf.
>>
>> For additional information, go to http://www.faa.gov/go/runwaysafety
>>
>> Marcus
>> 40286
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: New taxi procedures at controlled airports |
Come on now Chuck! Tell us how you really feel! ^_^
David Maib
RV-10
do not archive
On Jul 1, 2010, at 1:47 PM, Chuck Weyant wrote:
No it's not a good thing! Extra verbage for detailed taxi
instructions? We
don't need that and controllers don't need that. Screw-up's will still
occur. Controllers will still get it wrong from time-to-time and pilots
will still hear it wrong --- from time-to-time. It's sissified female
dominated FAA at its best --- again. Oh for the good 'ol days of manly
controllers. And what's so damn hard to understand "taxi too Runway
three-zero"?
I'm a retired air traffic controller (who worked some big facilities)
and
used "taxi into position" a lot to expedite traffic. Now I hold on the
ground with my nine heating up plugs fowling up burning excess fuel
because
the controller can't cock the runway because some sissy at headquarters
thinks a controller doesn't have the ability to remember I'm there.
Stupid,
pathetic and demeaning to our wonderful controllers! God, this
country is
turning into a sissified-touchy-feely mess.
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
I like this a lot, not that it matters now.
I was in the habit of volunteering every runway cross when cleared to
some other point. Never, ever got a hint of anything from ATC but
"that's a good thing to do, no problem".
Looking forward to sitting up higher in the '10.
Now it's mandatory and a good thing.
Bill
Marcus Cooper wrote:
>
> At little off topic but in case the word is slow to get out a new
procedure
> takes effect on 30 Jun this may help. No longer will you ever be
> cleared
to
> taxi to a runway that involves crossing other runways along the
> way. Not
a
> big deal as you just follow their clearance and you are good to go,
> you
just
> might realize more stop and go and unused runways. Here's the info
> from
the
> FAA
(http://www.faa.gov/airports/runway_safety/news/current_events/taxi_to/
> ):
>
> Explicit Runway Crossing Procedure Change
> Beginning June 30, 2010, controllers will be required to issue
> explicit
> instructions to cross or hold short of each runway that intersects
> a taxi
> route.
> "Taxi to" will no longer be used when issuing taxi instructions to an
> assigned take-off runway.
> Instructions to cross a runway will be issued one at a time.
> Instructions
to
> cross multiple runways will not be issued. An aircraft or vehicle must
have
> crossed the previous runway before another runway crossing is issued.
> This applies to any runway including inactive or closed runways.
> Changes will also be made to the AIM and AIP to reflect the new
procedures.
> Never cross a hold line without explicit ATC instructions. If in doubt
ASK!
> Reminder: You may not enter a runway unless you have been:
> instructed to
> cross that specific runway; cleared to take off from that runway; or
> instructed to position and hold on that specific runway.
> For more information on the change, refer to FAA Order N JO 7110.532,
which
> can be found at:
> http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Notice/N7110.532.pdf.
>
> For additional information, go to http://www.faa.gov/go/runwaysafety
>
> Marcus
> 40286
>
>
Message 19
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|
| From: | "bill@airflow" <airflow2@cox.net> |
Full disclosure: My firm manufactures the 2006X oil cooler used on many of your
RV-10s and we developed the splitter that some of you use in the oil cooler air
box.
This forum provides a great service to those of you building and flying RV-10s,
but I am concerned about the trend of providing single data points (ex: oil temps)
without supporting test data. I encounter this often in the phone calls
from RV-10 owners that are struggling with high oil temps. We are able to solve
the problem, but I think more owners could be helped if a standardized approach
and test form were used.
If someone writes in and says my temps are XXX without giving OAT on the ground
and for each 1000 feet in climb, fuel flow, manifold pressure, take off weight,
number of blades on the prop, etc., etc. the information is not as useful as
it could be. Yes, you all know your airplanes well and can see trends, but for
real problem solving we need standardized data.
For example, a pilot that sits, with engine running, for 15 minutes waiting for
a clearance in Phoenix in July is going to have different results (due to heat
soak) than someone with the same load that taxis out of his residential hangar
and is off the ground in 5 minutes, even with the same ground OAT.
I would be happy to provide a standard PDF Flight Test form similar to what we
have used for FAA flight testing the past if anyone is interested. Perhaps there
can be an offline place where people can share more detailed data. With modern
engine monitors we should be able to come up with some very useful data
very quickly.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303373#303373
Message 20
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|
Hey thank you very much everyone! I have found a retired aircraft
engineer down here to give me some help, and will be getting started on
a toolbox this weekend... J
Tony Woods
New Zealand
Do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rwendell@hydro-splash.com
Sent: Friday, 2 July 2010 4:42 a.m.
Subject: Re: RV10-List: rivets...
Go to the EAA website and watch the videos very helpful
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
_____
From: "Tony Woods" <twoods@sesa.af>
Sender: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
ReplyTo: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: rivets...
Ok.=C2- I worked out how to use the rivet squeezer, and have built
my VS = skeleton.=C2- So far so good. =C2-=C2-Now
I=99m fixing the skin, and wanted to = pause to get a few
words of advice on how I rivet into areas where=C2- I can't use
the = squeezer.=C2- OK =93 Enter the mysterious
bucking bar right?=C2- I guess I place this = bucking bar
against the exterior skin, a flat tungsten surface, and then reach =
inside the VS to use the rivet gun to hammer the protruding stub and
form the = head?
Man, do I sound like = a newbee yet?
Tony =
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
~
_____
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | audio cable near battery cable- any issues? |
Looking for feedback for how far should I run a audio input from a
battery cable - specifically I have a music input for the audio panel
and need to run it along the same side as the battery cable runs- not
sure there is any feedback issues I should be concerned with.
Thanks!
Pascal
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: audio cable near battery cable- any issues? |
The audio cables should be shielded, and grounded at one end only.
Shouldn't be a problem. I wouldn't wrap the audio cables around the
battery cable though! ;-)
The only time there MAY be a problem with induced noise is during
cranking when there is a lot of current.
Having said all that, it isn't 'good' practice to run signal wires
alongside high current cables ..... but I doubt you'll see any problems.
Linn
Pascal wrote:
> Looking for feedback for how far should I run a audio input from a
> battery cable - specifically I have a music input for the audio panel
> and need to run it along the same side as the battery cable runs- not
> sure there is any feedback issues I should be concerned with.
> Thanks!
> Pascal
> *
>
>
> *
Message 23
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Just testing link=0A-=0AAlan Bikle=0A-Airflow Technolgy=0A1586 Moffett
Street Ste. E=0ASalinas, CA. 93905=0ATel: 831-320-0193 =0AFax: 831-771-0833
Message 24
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Just testing link=0A-=0AAlan Bikle=0A-Airflow Technolgy=0A1586 Moffett
Street Ste. E=0ASalinas, CA. 93905=0ATel: 831-320-0193 =0AFax: 831-771-0833
Message 25
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OK =93 I'm not going to drive any rivets until I have the
technique sorted out. I have a good 3x gun and tungsten bucking bar. I
got the whole tool kit from PlaneTools, so have back-riveting sets etc
etc. Much of it I'm still looking at and wondering what it does, but
looking forward to finding out! The EAA videos are excellent.
OK, so for places like the inside structure of the VS., I use the gun on
the outside of the structure as it clearly won't fit inside, and hold a
bucking bar against the rivet tail, inside the structure. The rivet
head is formed against the bucking bar right?
Tony
New Zealand
Do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rwendell@hydro-splash.com
Sent: Friday, 2 July 2010 4:42 a.m.
Subject: Re: RV10-List: rivets...
Go to the EAA website and watch the videos very helpful
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
_____
From: "Tony Woods" <twoods@sesa.af>
Sender: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
ReplyTo: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: rivets...
Ok.=C2- I worked out how to use the rivet squeezer, and have built
my VS = skeleton.=C2- So far so good. =C2-=C2-Now
I=99m fixing the skin, and wanted to = pause to get a few
words of advice on how I rivet into areas where=C2- I can't use
the = squeezer.=C2- OK =93 Enter the mysterious
bucking bar right?=C2- I guess I place this = bucking bar
against the exterior skin, a flat tungsten surface, and then reach =
inside the VS to use the rivet gun to hammer the protruding stub and
form the = head?
Man, do I sound like = a newbee yet?
Tony =
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
~
_____
Message 26
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Woodie,
Correct. Once you do it a few times it will all click.
--------
Todd Stovall
728TT (reserved)
RV-10 Empacone, Wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303402#303402
Message 27
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|
The plans for the empenage tell you how Vans think you should rivet a part,
including when back riveting is appropriate. Later sections leave that up t
o
your experience. If you are using bucking bar with rivet gun on the
manufactured head, then yes the shop head is formed against the bucking bar
.
In back riveting the shop head is formed by the rivet gun. In some cases yo
u
can back rivet with a large round bucking bar, such as
http://www.averytools.com/pc-649-19-bucking-bar.aspx for places where you
can't lay the sheet metal against the back rivet plate.
If I recall correctly, some of the vertical stab is much easier to do with
an assistant holding the bucking bar.
On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 5:37 PM, Tony Woods <twoods@sesa.af> wrote:
> OK ' I'm not going to drive any rivets until I have the technique sort
ed
> out. I have a good 3x gun and tungsten bucking bar. I got the whole too
l
> kit from PlaneTools, so have back-riveting sets etc etc. Much of it I'm
> still looking at and wondering what it does, but looking forward to findi
ng
> out! The EAA videos are excellent.
>
>
> OK, so for places like the inside structure of the VS., I use the gun on
> the outside of the structure as it clearly won't fit inside, and hold a
> bucking bar against the rivet tail, inside the structure. The rivet head
is
> formed against the bucking bar right?
>
>
> Tony
>
> New Zealand
>
> Do not archive
>
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *
> rwendell@hydro-splash.com
> *Sent:* Friday, 2 July 2010 4:42 a.m.
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: rivets...
>
>
> Go to the EAA website and watch the videos very helpful
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> ------------------------------
>
> *From: *"Tony Woods" <twoods@sesa.af>
>
> *Sender: *owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>
> *Date: *Thu, 1 Jul 2010 19:23:33 +1200
>
> *To: *<rv10-list@matronics.com>
>
> *ReplyTo: *rv10-list@matronics.com
>
> *Subject: *RV10-List: rivets...
>
>
> Ok.=C2- I worked out how to use the rivet squeezer, and have built
my VS
> = skeleton.=C2- So far so good. =C2-=C2-Now I=
80=99m fixing the
> skin, and wanted to = pause to get a few words of advice on how I rivet
into
> areas where=C2- I can't use the = squeezer.=C2- OK =
80=93 Enter the
> mysterious bucking bar right?=C2- I guess I place this = bucking
bar
> against the exterior skin, a flat tungsten surface, and then reach = in
side
> the VS to use the rivet gun to hammer the protruding stub and form the
> head?
>
>
> Man, do I sound like = a newbee yet?
>
>
> Tony
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> * *
>
> ~
> ------------------------------
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
Message 28
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Mary and I used that bucking bar http://www.averytools.com/pc-649-19-
bucking-bar.aspx extensively while riveting our tailcone. I back
riveted from the inside while she held the bucking bar on the
manufactured heads on the exterior. It worked great and we get lots
of compliments on the riveting. I found during the build that my
number one preference was to squeeze the rivet. If that was not
possible, then back riveting was choice number two. If that would not
work then shooting the rivet with the gun on the manufactured head
and the bucking bar on the tail was choice number three. The
pneumatic squeezer was a very gentlemanly way to rivet. I loved using
that tool!
David Maib
40559
Flying
On Jul 1, 2010, at 10:08 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
The plans for the empenage tell you how Vans think you should rivet a
part, including when back riveting is appropriate. Later sections
leave that up to your experience. If you are using bucking bar with
rivet gun on the manufactured head, then yes the shop head is formed
against the bucking bar. In back riveting the shop head is formed by
the rivet gun. In some cases you can back rivet with a large round
bucking bar, such as http://www.averytools.com/pc-649-19-bucking-
bar.aspx for places where you can't lay the sheet metal against the
back rivet plate.
If I recall correctly, some of the vertical stab is much easier to do
with an assistant holding the bucking bar.
On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 5:37 PM, Tony Woods <twoods@sesa.af> wrote:
OK ' I'm not going to drive any rivets until I have the technique
sorted out. I have a good 3x gun and tungsten bucking bar. I got
the whole tool kit from PlaneTools, so have back-riveting sets etc
etc. Much of it I'm still looking at and wondering what it does, but
looking forward to finding out! The EAA videos are excellent.
OK, so for places like the inside structure of the VS., I use the gun
on the outside of the structure as it clearly won't fit inside, and
hold a bucking bar against the rivet tail, inside the structure. The
rivet head is formed against the bucking bar right?
Tony
New Zealand
Do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-
server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rwendell@hydro-splash.com
Sent: Friday, 2 July 2010 4:42 a.m.
Subject: Re: RV10-List: rivets...
Go to the EAA website and watch the videos very helpful
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
From: "Tony Woods" <twoods@sesa.af>
Sender: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
ReplyTo: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: rivets...
Ok.=C2- I worked out how to use the rivet squeezer, and have built
my VS = skeleton.=C2- So far so good. =C2-=C2-Now
I=99m
fixing the skin, and wanted to = pause to get a few words of advice
on how I rivet into areas where=C2- I can't use the =
squeezer.=C2- OK =93 Enter the mysterious bucking bar
right?
=C2- I guess I place this = bucking bar against the exterior
skin,
a flat tungsten surface, and then reach = inside the VS to use the
rivet gun to hammer the protruding stub and form the = head?
Man, do I sound like = a newbee yet?
Tony
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
~
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 29
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Thanks heaps guys! That is a huge help to my confidence! J
Woodsie
Do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Friday, 2 July 2010 2:09 p.m.
Subject: Re: RV10-List: rivets...
The plans for the empenage tell you how Vans think you should rivet a part,
including when back riveting is appropriate. Later sections leave that up to
your experience. If you are using bucking bar with rivet gun on the
manufactured head, then yes the shop head is formed against the bucking bar.
In back riveting the shop head is formed by the rivet gun. In some cases you
can back rivet with a large round bucking bar, such as
http://www.averytools.com/pc-649-19-bucking-bar.aspx for places where you
can't lay the sheet metal against the back rivet plate.
If I recall correctly, some of the vertical stab is much easier to do with
an assistant holding the bucking bar.
On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 5:37 PM, Tony Woods <twoods@sesa.af> wrote:
OK - I'm not going to drive any rivets until I have the technique sorted
out. I have a good 3x gun and tungsten bucking bar. I got the whole tool
kit from PlaneTools, so have back-riveting sets etc etc. Much of it I'm
still looking at and wondering what it does, but looking forward to finding
out! The EAA videos are excellent.
OK, so for places like the inside structure of the VS., I use the gun on the
outside of the structure as it clearly won't fit inside, and hold a bucking
bar against the rivet tail, inside the structure. The rivet head is formed
against the bucking bar right?
Tony
New Zealand
Do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rwendell@hydro-splash.com
Sent: Friday, 2 July 2010 4:42 a.m.
Subject: Re: RV10-List: rivets...
Go to the EAA website and watch the videos very helpful
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
_____
From: "Tony Woods" <twoods@sesa.af>
Sender: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
ReplyTo: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: rivets...
Ok.=C2- I worked out how to use the rivet squeezer, and have built my VS
skeleton.=C2- So far so good. =C2-=C2-Now I=99m fixing the skin,
and wanted to = pause to get a few words of advice on how I rivet into areas
where=C2- I can't use the = squeezer.=C2- OK =93 Enter the
mysterious bucking bar right?=C2- I guess I place this = bucking bar
against the exterior skin, a flat tungsten surface, and then reach = inside
the VS to use the rivet gun to hammer the protruding stub and form the
head?
Man, do I sound like = a newbee yet?
Tony =
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
~
_____
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 30
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Coming in late here.... Yes, we've got cowl flaps on our 10. Non-Cold
Air James cowl, Rod Bower intake, Vetterman 6 into 2 with mufflers.
Abdolutly no cooling problems here in the Houston heat, no luvers
installed. One very pleasant suprise was a 4 knot increase in speed
when the cowl flaps are closed up. I'm at work for the next few days,
but on Monday when I get home I'll try and get some pictures posted.
Nick Nafsinger
Houston, TX
Sent from my iPhone
Message 31
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Thanks, Nick. I'd like to see the pictures and any detail you have to offer.
Tom Koelzer
40950 Wings
Do not archive.
On Jul 1, 2010, at 11:47 PM, Nick Nafsinger wrote:
>
>
> Coming in late here.... Yes, we've got cowl flaps on our 10. Non-Cold Air James
cowl, Rod Bower intake, Vetterman 6 into 2 with mufflers.
>
> Abdolutly no cooling problems here in the Houston heat, no luvers installed.
One very pleasant suprise was a 4 knot increase in speed when the cowl flaps are
closed up. I'm at work for the next few days, but on Monday when I get home
I'll try and get some pictures posted.
>
> Nick Nafsinger
> Houston, TX
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
>
>
Message 32
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As the kids say:
me2
Robin
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Koelzer
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Cowl Flaps
Thanks, Nick. I'd like to see the pictures and any detail you have to
offer.
Tom Koelzer
40950 Wings
Do not archive.
Message 33
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| Subject: | Official RV10-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the RV10-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete RV10-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/RV10-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm
************************************************************
******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS *******
************************************************************
PLEASE READ. This document contains RV10-List policies and information
for new and old subscribers. Understanding the RV10-List policies will
minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the RV10-List
running smoothly for all of us.
******************************************
*** Quick Start Guide to List Features ***
******************************************
There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each
one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator
you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this
List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
****************************************
*** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe ***
****************************************
Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and
select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You
may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of
your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the
complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information.
The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is:
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Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption
process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request
was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed.
You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.
The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post
until you receive the second conformation email message.
*****************************
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*****************************
Send an email message to:
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Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed
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When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message
is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the
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If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it
is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that
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Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important
with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook
or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be
functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM
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Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure
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These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
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3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.
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6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed:
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sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
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Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules
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2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just
unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
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And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
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BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
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*** Digest Mode ***
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Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
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of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
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Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "rv10-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
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* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
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message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the RV10-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the RV10-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/rv10-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all RV10-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the RV10-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* RV10-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the RV10-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* RV10-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* RV10-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* RV10-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the RV10-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* RV10-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the RV10-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the RV10-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?RV10
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
RV10-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the RV10-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the RV10-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
RV10-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the RV10-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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| Subject: | Official RV10-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the RV10-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
RV10-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/RV10-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
RV10-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the RV10-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the RV10-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
RV10-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the RV10-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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