---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 08/14/10: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:46 AM - Re: Prop Governor revisited (lessdragprod@aol.com) 2. 06:49 AM - Re: Prop Governor revisited (jayb) 3. 07:11 AM - Re: Re: Prop Governor revisited (Condrey, Bob (US SSA)) 4. 08:26 AM - Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently? (AirMike) 5. 12:27 PM - Starting problems (William Hicks) 6. 01:41 PM - Re: Starting problems (Bob Turner) 7. 01:47 PM - Re: Starting problems (Kelly McMullen) 8. 01:58 PM - Re: Starting problems (Linn Walters) 9. 02:08 PM - Re: Starting problems (Linn Walters) 10. 02:17 PM - Re: Starting problems (Kelly McMullen) 11. 02:19 PM - Re: Starting problems (Dave Saylor) 12. 03:46 PM - Re: Starting problems (Kevin Belue) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:46:37 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Prop Governor revisited From: lessdragprod@aol.com I believe the question being asked is "Is only getting 2550 RPM maximum ac ceptable when a (I)O-540 narrow deck governor is installed on a (I)O-540 wide deck engine". I wouldn't think so. Especially when Van's Aircraft could provide the correct governor. I am aware of them knowing about this for at least three years. Just my opinion. Jim Ayers RV-3 sn 10050 650 hours - LOM M332A engine - 3 blade electric CS MT Propel ler & Warne fixed pitch propeller RV-6A sn 21873 150 hours - Lyc. O-360 engine - metal 2 blade CS MT Propell er & 3 blade CS MT Propeller RV-4/HR2/modified sn 001 28 hiours - IO-540 narrow deck engine - counterwe ighted 4 blade CS MT Propeller & counterweighted 3 blade CS Propeller in process. -----Original Message----- From: Condrey, Bob (US SSA) Sent: Fri, Aug 13, 2010 9:22 am Subject: RE: RV10-List: Prop Governor revisited ystems.com> As long as you have at least Rev F of the governor supplied by Vans you'll be ine. Revisions prior to that potentially have an issue with surging. I would magine that anything you get delivered now will be latest revision. If ot hers re reading this and they have an older Rev B or C prop governor, MT will update t to latest version without charge if you have issues. Bob V-10 N442PM -----Original Message----- rom: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] n Behalf Of Kelly McMullen ent: Friday, August 13, 2010 11:02 AM o: rv10-list@matronics.com ubject: RV10-List: Prop Governor revisited In reviewing the archives, I note that several times it was pointed ut that Vans supplies a governor setup for the narrow deck Lycoming ngine configuration, when most folks are using are wide deck ngines that should get different dash number set for that engine. Is t worth deleting the Vans unit from the FWF kit and obtaining the orrect one elsewhere, or are folks satisfied with repositioning the rm and resetting the max rpm on what Vans provides? -======================== ======================== =========== -= - The RV10-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:49:11 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Prop Governor revisited From: "jayb" Stuff that keeps me up at night. Does anyone have pointers to links or threads that describe how to tell if one has Rev F? I looked over the MT docs in my possession, but didn't get a sense of rev number (could have missed it tho). My serial number ends in an "F"... Maybe that's good? Thanks, Jay bcondrey wrote: > As long as you have at least Rev F of the governor supplied by Vans you'll be fine. Revisions prior to that potentially have an issue with surging. > -- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308765#308765 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:11:41 AM PST US From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Prop Governor revisited You're good then. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: jayb [mailto:jaybrinkmeyer@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 06:48 AM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Prop Governor revisited Stuff that keeps me up at night. Does anyone have pointers to links or threads that describe how to tell if one has Rev F? I looked over the MT docs in my possession, but didn't get a sense of rev number (could have missed it tho). My serial number ends in an "F"... Maybe that's good? Thanks, Jay bcondrey wrote: > As long as you have at least Rev F of the governor supplied by Vans you'll be fine. Revisions prior to that potentially have an issue with surging. > -- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308765#308765 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:26:22 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: If Doing It Again, What Would You Do Differently? From: "AirMike" Engine from Mattituck in NY. I and a lot of others have their Red/Gold engine, great support. Reasonable price. It is mass balanced, fine wire plugs, home delivered on a lift gate truck (no extra charge). Runs solid after 70 hrs. Used 1 qt of oil to OSH and back to the West Coast. It is standard compression which might be desirable if we go to a new fuel. -------- OSH '10 or Bust Q/B - finally done Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308782#308782 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:27:49 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Starting problems From: William Hicks Couple of us with dual mags, no impulse couplers, slick start on io540 d4 a5, are having starting problems on both cold and hot starts. Engine eventually starts just as you release key from start position. We have checked the slick start and it is putting out spark. Any one have similar situation and if so did find a fix? Sent from my iPhone ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:41:24 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Starting problems From: "Bob Turner" ACS site says it works with "impulse coupled, or retard breaker, mags...". Do you have some form of retarded timing on your mags, for start? -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308820#308820 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:47:44 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Starting problems From: Kelly McMullen Since this should be the same wiring as the old Bendix Shower of Sparks, or retard breaker system, the start circuit goes through a second set of points, the retard points that activate at TDC. If those points aren't opening and closing correctly, or aren't hooked up via what looks like a second "P lead" which will have a smaller dia connector, then you aren't getting a spark during cranking. Your symptoms are a classic on retard breaker system. When you release the key from start position it goes back to normal firing of both mags and is starting on that. When you are cranking only the left mag that has the retard breaker points is supposed to fire, and only at TDC. You have something that is preventing that firing from happening at TDC. Either the ignition switch isn't wired correctly, or the retard points aren't opening correctly. I'd go back to the documentation for your left mag, your Slick Start documentation, and the wiring diagram for the ignition switch and verify all of it. I don't know, perhaps the slick start is supposed to fire both mags, maybe it can do it without using the retard breaker points, but you need to verify that it is being triggered at TDC, and that there is spark at the plugs at TDC. If it only fires when you release the start key, that is not happening. On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 12:24 PM, William Hicks wrote: > > Couple of us with dual mags, no impulse couplers, slick start on io540 d4 a5, are having starting problems on both cold and hot starts. Engine eventually starts just as you release key from start position. We have checked the slick start and it is putting out spark. Any one have similar situation and if so did find a fix? > > Sent from my iPhone > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:58:58 PM PST US From: Linn Walters Subject: Re: RV10-List: Starting problems No first hand experience, but I'm betting that the starter is drawing down the battery voltage so that the Slickstart doesn't get it's full share. Measure the voltage at the Slickstart while cranking. If you didn't run a ground wire from the battery to the engine compartment, you might entertain doing that now. If you have the normal Vans installation, check for a good connection at the battery ground to the airframe ....... get rid of the paint under the lug. Linn .. William Hicks wrote: > > Couple of us with dual mags, no impulse couplers, slick start on io540 d4 a5, are having starting problems on both cold and hot starts. Engine eventually starts just as you release key from start position. We have checked the slick start and it is putting out spark. Any one have similar situation and if so did find a fix? > > Sent from my iPhone > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:08:23 PM PST US From: Linn Walters Subject: Re: RV10-List: Starting problems Kellt and Bob's post got me to thinking ..... it could be that the engine cranking speed is higher than the Slickstart wants for retarded spark. Linn Kelly McMullen wrote: > > Since this should be the same wiring as the old Bendix Shower of > Sparks, or retard breaker system, the start circuit goes through a > second set of points, the retard points that activate at TDC. If those > points aren't opening and closing correctly, or aren't hooked up via > what looks like a second "P lead" which will have a smaller dia > connector, then you aren't getting a spark during cranking. Your > symptoms are a classic on retard breaker system. When you release the > key from start position it goes back to normal firing of both mags and > is starting on that. When you are cranking only the left mag that has > the retard breaker points is supposed to fire, and only at TDC. You > have something that is preventing that firing from happening at TDC. > Either the ignition switch isn't wired correctly, or the retard points > aren't opening correctly. > I'd go back to the documentation for your left mag, your Slick Start > documentation, and the wiring diagram for the ignition switch and > verify all of it. I don't know, perhaps the slick start is supposed to > fire both mags, maybe it can do it without using the retard breaker > points, but you need to verify that it is being triggered at TDC, and > that there is spark at the plugs at TDC. If it only fires when you > release the start key, that is not happening. > > On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 12:24 PM, William Hicks wrote: > >> >> Couple of us with dual mags, no impulse couplers, slick start on io540 d4 a5, are having starting problems on both cold and hot starts. Engine eventually starts just as you release key from start position. We have checked the slick start and it is putting out spark. Any one have similar situation and if so did find a fix? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:17:36 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Starting problems From: Kelly McMullen That is possible. I have no problems with the traditional Bendix vibrator Shower of Sparks on my old Mooney with a Skytec high speed starter. In fact it starts just fine, hot or cold unless the head space and timing are not correct between the ears of the pilot. ;-) On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Linn Walters wrote: > Kelly and Bob's post got me to thinking ..... it could be that the engine > cranking speed is higher than the Slickstart wants for retarded spark. > Linn > > Kelly McMullen wrote: > > > Since this should be the same wiring as the old Bendix Shower of > Sparks, or retard breaker system, the start circuit goes through a > second set of points, the retard points that activate at TDC. If those > points aren't opening and closing correctly, or aren't hooked up via > what looks like a second "P lead" which will have a smaller dia > connector, then you aren't getting a spark during cranking. Your > symptoms are a classic on retard breaker system. When you release the > key from start position it goes back to normal firing of both mags and > is starting on that. When you are cranking only the left mag that has > the retard breaker points is supposed to fire, and only at TDC. You > have something that is preventing that firing from happening at TDC. > Either the ignition switch isn't wired correctly, or the retard points > aren't opening correctly. > I'd go back to the documentation for your left mag, your Slick Start > documentation, and the wiring diagram for the ignition switch and > verify all of it. I don't know, perhaps the slick start is supposed to > fire both mags, maybe it can do it without using the retard breaker > points, but you need to verify that it is being triggered at TDC, and > that there is spark at the plugs at TDC. If it only fires when you > release the start key, that is not happening. > > On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 12:24 PM, William Hicks wrote: > > > > Couple of us with dual mags, no impulse couplers, slick start on io540 d4 > a5, are having starting problems on both cold and hot starts. Engine > eventually starts just as you release key from start position. We have > checked the slick start and it is putting out spark. Any one have similar > situation and if so did find a fix? > > Sent from my iPhone > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:19:20 PM PST US From: Dave Saylor Subject: Re: RV10-List: Starting problems Engines with SlickStart get really hard to start when the retard points get worn. That can happen on some mags with very little time in service, i.e., as little as 100 hours. Check the condition of the retard points and time them per the instructions. Even retarded as much as one or two degrees after TC should be OK. Dave Saylor AirCrafters 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 95076 831-722-9141 Shop 831-750-0284 Cell On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 12:24 PM, William Hicks wrote: > > Couple of us with dual mags, no impulse couplers, slick start on io540 d4 > a5, are having starting problems on both cold and hot starts. Engine > eventually starts just as you release key from start position. We have > checked the slick start and it is putting out spark. Any one have similar > situation and if so did find a fix? > > Sent from my iPhone > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:46:39 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Starting problems From: Kevin Belue I had the same starting problem. I found that the start switch was wired wro ng so the retard breaker was not working and both mags fired at 25 BTDC. Rew ired switch and it starts correctly. Kevin Sent from my iPhone On Aug 14, 2010, at 4:17 PM, Dave Saylor wrote: > Engines with SlickStart get really hard to start when the retard points ge t worn. That can happen on some mags with very little time in service, i.e. , as little as 100 hours. Check the condition of the retard points and time them per the instructions. Even retarded as much as one or two degrees aft er TC should be OK. > > Dave Saylor > AirCrafters > 140 Aviation Way > Watsonville, CA 95076 > 831-722-9141 Shop > 831-750-0284 Cell > > > On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 12:24 PM, William Hicks wrot e: > > Couple of us with dual mags, no impulse couplers, slick start on io540 d4 a 5, are having starting problems on both cold and hot starts. Engine eventua lly starts just as you release key from start position. We have checked the slick start and it is putting out spark. Any one have similar situation an d if so did find a fix? > > Sent from my iPhone > > ========== > " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > ========== > MS - > k">http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > e - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.