Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:33 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Relocation (Phillip Perry)
2. 06:43 AM - Re: Miniumum fuel comfort zone (Jesse Saint)
3. 07:19 AM - Re: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors (Alan Mekler)
4. 07:41 AM - Re: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors (Alan Mekler)
5. 08:13 AM - Re: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors (Dave Leikam)
6. 08:23 AM - Re: Miniumum fuel comfort zone (Don McDonald)
7. 08:23 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Relocation (Dave Leikam)
8. 08:23 AM - Re: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors (Dave Leikam)
9. 08:32 AM - Re: Miniumum fuel comfort zone (Tim Olson)
10. 09:55 AM - Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Relocation (Robin Marks)
11. 01:42 PM - RV-10 kit 95% complete- FOR SALE (Phil White)
12. 01:49 PM - Re: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors (Kelly McMullen)
13. 01:55 PM - Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Relocation (Kelly McMullen)
14. 02:05 PM - Re: Miniumum fuel comfort zone (James McGrew)
15. 02:30 PM - Trutrak Digiflite II VSGV (DLM)
16. 02:53 PM - Re: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors (Patrick Thyssen)
17. 04:01 PM - Re: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors (Alan Mekler)
18. 04:01 PM - Re: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors (Alan Mekler)
19. 04:20 PM - Re: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors (Kelly McMullen)
20. 04:24 PM - Re: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors (Patrick Thyssen)
21. 04:33 PM - Re: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors (Alan Mekler)
22. 04:33 PM - Re: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors (Alan Mekler)
23. 05:08 PM - Re: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors (Kelly McMullen)
24. 05:33 PM - Re: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors (Alan Mekler)
25. 05:38 PM - Re: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors (Patrick Thyssen)
26. 07:34 PM - Re: Miniumum fuel comfort zone (Tim Olson)
27. 07:43 PM - Re: Miniumum fuel comfort zone (Kelly McMullen)
28. 08:34 PM - Re: Miniumum fuel comfort zone (Jesse Saint)
29. 09:01 PM - Re: Miniumum fuel comfort zone (DLM)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Relocation |
Thanks Robin...
I was hoping the Andair pump wouldn't exhibit some of the same issues.
The Air Flow (stock) pump operates with vanes and the Andair is a little
more elegant. It functions with a series of expanding cavities to
essentially siphon the fuel through the pump. You would think the removal
of the vanes and use of cavities would reduce the pulses in the fuel.
I'm glad to know the problem still exist though with the Andair pump. I'm a
t
that phase right now and have been contemplating putting it in the stock
position or moving it forward. You saved me some re-work.
I do like the Andair pump though and don't regret buying it. The
recirculate features are ported directly into the casing of the pump, so yo
u
can get rid of the return plumbing. The motor is brushless, and I kinda
like that for anything in the fuel system. And the rotating cavities are
not like vanes, so they don't have any friction with the housing and won't
wear much at all.
I was just hoping it would be the silver bullet and fix the FF issue too..
But maybe I'm just being a little greedy? :)
Phil
On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 11:10 PM, Robin Marks <Robin@painttheweb.com> wrote
:
> Andair boost for me. Fuel flow is a grey metal unit. I think most people
> have a red cube? Or am I confusing that with a fuel pressure device.
>
>
> BTW I didn=92t go into too much detail because we changed a bunch of thin
gs
> this time around. New fuel lines, replaced some tubing, removed the Andai
r
> gascolator from the system.
>
>
> Robin
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Phillip Perry
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 21, 2010 6:50 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Fuel Flow Transducer Relocation
>
>
> Robin,
>
> I'm curious to know which brand of boost pump do you have?
>
> I'm also curious to know if anyone else is seeing this problem using the
> Andair boost pump with the FF transducer in Van's stock position.
>
> Thanks,
> Phil
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Miniumum fuel comfort zone |
I think each person probably has their personal limit on this. Personally, I would
much rather have 14 gallons in one tank than 7 gallons in each, maybe unless
conditions are perfectly smooth. Even when flying a 172, on a long trip,
I'll burn out of both tanks to verify everything is working in the system, but
will burn one tank down until I start losing fuel pressure and then switch so
I know all of my fuel is available from the current tank (and it also helps to
verify how much fuel I have - see if my calculations are correct, which isn't
as much of an issue in the -10). I do this at altitude so, if there's some
kind of hickup, there would be plenty of time to get it worked out. I don't think
I've ever taken the -10 to the point of losing fuel pressure, but I've taken
it to the point where the float reads zero and the flow meter agrees.
That's just the way I do it, and I don't like to get on the ground with less than
10 gallons, but all of that on one side if I do get that low.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
On Aug 22, 2010, at 2:37 AM, AirMike wrote:
>
> In re-analyzing my numbers from my trip to OSH - felt that it is best to be on
the ground when you have less than 7 gallons in each tank. I have very accurate
readings from my tank floats and fuel scan is right on the money. Since a
big percentage of accidents are from just running out of gas, I'd like any input
on minimum usable fuel in the std tanks so that we can all keep a comfortable
safety zone.
> I also need this info as I fit out my 90 gallon internal tank for the round-the-poles
flight - ok just kidding.......
>
> --------
> OSH '10 or Bust
> Q/B - finally done
>
>
> do not archive
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309710#309710
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors |
My fuel flow stays very steady. Usually doesn't move more than 0.1
gallons/hr after taking about 30 seconds to settele down. Engine runs fine.
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
Most likely cause is the location of your fuel flow sending unit, as
Robin just noted. Fuel flow that peaks 1 gph different between
cylinders would not run worth a damn. I am assuming that is not the
case because you didn't mention any issues with how the engine ran.
So I seriously question the validity of your fuel flow data. Lycomings
generally are within 0.6 gph with stock injectors. But GAMI cannot
correct for inaccurate FF readings relative to peak egts.
On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 9:04 AM, Alan Mekler <amekler@metrocast.net> wrote:
> I have been trying the GAMI injectors( on the 4th set now) but found the
> fuel flow on the cylinders varies widely. My cylinder #5 has the richest
> injector and it still peaks a gallon or more before the other cylinders
> Before gamis it was 2.5 gallons.. Has any one had this problem? Any
> solutions?
>
> GAMI does not why the fuel is so unbalanced in this engine. I have 95
hours
> on the engine and all compressions are good. No intake leaks.
>
> Alan
>
> N668G
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors |
Kelly,
I just looked at my injectors cylinder 3 and 4 have the leanest
injectors(GAMI A) while cylinder 5 has the richest injector (Gami J plus)
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 8:13 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
Perhaps you are working on the wrong end of the problem. #3&4 are
peaking last, so must be too rich. The rest of the cylinders are peaking
within 0.4gph of #5. You also will need to gather measurements every 0.2
gph to better detect the peaks once you get those two cylinders closer
to the rest.
On 8/21/2010 3:59 PM, Alan Mekler wrote:
>
> Patrick,
>
> Before switching to the GAMIs my cylinder #5 peaked at 2.5 gallons l
> than my richest cylinder #3. After changing to GAMIs (my 3^rd set) I'm
> down to a 1 gallon spread. GAMI has given me the richest injector they
> make for cylinder # 5 but it still peaks early.
>
> Here is my latest flight data flying at 7000 MSL 22 inches/ 2400 rpm.
>
> Alan
>
> 13 12.5 12.1 11.7 11.3 11.0 10.5 10.3 Fuel flow gal/hr
>
> 1420 1438 1468 1474 1453 1438 1422 1403 cylinder #1
>
> 1381 1398 1428 1452 1447 1437 1412 1373 cylinder #2
>
> 1393 1409 1438 1456 1473 1468 1448 1414 cylinder #3
>
> 1400 1417 1449 1468 1477 1470 1450 1414 cylinder #4
>
> 1434 1467 1469 1443 1415 1411 1400 1435 cylinder # 5
>
> 1410 1430 1463 1474 1458 1441 1420 1397 cylinder #6
>
> other method
>
> cylinder #1 1472 peak @ 11.5
>
> cylinder #2 1451 peak@ 11.2
>
> cylinder #3 1472 peak @ 11.1
>
> cylinder#4 1477 peak @ 11.2
>
> cylinder #5 1473 peak @ 12.1
>
> cylinder #6 1474 peak @ 11.5
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick
> Thyssen
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 21, 2010 5:22 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
>
> ? Have you done the coke bottle check? Has anyone messed with the
> lines from the spider to injectors? Are we sure the lines are the
> right ones? The other thing have you had any problems with your EGT
> system. Could your EGT probes be bad?
> Peaking or not peaking where they should?
> Just a few thoughts
> Patrick Thyssen
>
> --- On *Sat, 8/21/10, Alan Mekler /<amekler@metrocast.net>/* wrote:
>
>
> From: Alan Mekler <amekler@metrocast.net>
> Subject: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, August 21, 2010, 11:04 AM
>
> I have been trying the GAMI injectors( on the 4^th set now) but found
> the fuel flow on the cylinders varies widely. My cylinder #5 has the
> richest injector and it still peaks a gallon or more before the other
> cylinders Before gamis it was 2.5 gallons.. Has any one had this
> problem? Any solutions?
>
> GAMI does not why the fuel is so unbalanced in this engine. I have 95
> hours on the engine and all compressions are good. No intake leaks.
>
> Alan
>
> N668G
>
>
>
> * *
> * *
> **
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
> **
> **
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> * *
> *
>
>
> *
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors |
Flo Scan tech support told me "Do not install the sensor between two fuel
pumps or erratic and unreliable readings may occour."
Before the pumps and even the valve is best they said, but after the pumps
would be fine. Just leave several inches of straight or gentley curved hose
before and after the sensor.
However this was in reference to marine applications as they no longer
support aviation applications.
Dave Leikam
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Mekler" <amekler@metrocast.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 9:18 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
>
> My fuel flow stays very steady. Usually doesn't move more than 0.1
> gallons/hr after taking about 30 seconds to settele down. Engine runs
> fine.
> Alan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 3:40 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
>
>
> Most likely cause is the location of your fuel flow sending unit, as
> Robin just noted. Fuel flow that peaks 1 gph different between
> cylinders would not run worth a damn. I am assuming that is not the
> case because you didn't mention any issues with how the engine ran.
> So I seriously question the validity of your fuel flow data. Lycomings
> generally are within 0.6 gph with stock injectors. But GAMI cannot
> correct for inaccurate FF readings relative to peak egts.
>
> On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 9:04 AM, Alan Mekler <amekler@metrocast.net>
> wrote:
>> I have been trying the GAMI injectors( on the 4th set now) but found the
>> fuel flow on the cylinders varies widely. My cylinder #5 has the richest
>> injector and it still peaks a gallon or more before the other cylinders
>> Before gamis it was 2.5 gallons.. Has any one had this problem? Any
>> solutions?
>>
>> GAMI does not why the fuel is so unbalanced in this engine. I have 95
> hours
>> on the engine and all compressions are good. No intake leaks.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>> N668G
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Miniumum fuel comfort zone |
Mike, as a new pilot, with a new airplane, one of the first things I though
t I should do was run one tank completely out of fuel (while circling the a
irport).- I did not want to second guess the tank construction (quickbuil
d).--I also wanted a little confidence increase that the engine would f
ire right back up after switching tanks.- Of course it did, and after arr
iving on the ground I was able to drain enough fuel out of the exhausted ta
nk to kill 2 weeds on the taxiway (between 2 to 4 oz).- Then to verify, I
fueled up, and it took the entire 30 gallons. (plus a little) - As I thi
nk has been reported in a prior post, usable fuel is about 29.8 gallons.-
So after the test, on every cross country, I run right down to 29 gallons
on-both tank.......... just kidding!
But keep in mind, with a lot of the older planes, they only have a mickey m
ouse fuel gage... where as we have 2 completely independent indicators (act
ually 3).- Although I suppose-all-could -fail or be incorrect at th
e same time, it's doubtful.
Don McDonald
--- On Sat, 8/21/10, AirMike <Mikeabel@Pacbell.net> wrote:
From: AirMike <Mikeabel@Pacbell.net>
Subject: RV10-List: Miniumum fuel comfort zone
In re-analyzing my numbers from my trip to OSH - felt that it is best to be
on the ground when you have less than 7 gallons in each tank. I have very
accurate readings from my tank floats and fuel scan is right on the money.
Since a big percentage of accidents are from just running out of gas, I'd l
ike any input on minimum usable fuel in the std tanks so that we can all ke
ep a comfortable safety zone.
I also need this info as I fit out my 90 gallon internal tank for the round
-the-poles flight - ok just kidding.......
--------
OSH '10 or Bust
Q/B - finally done
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309710#309710
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Relocation |
Flo Scan tech support told me "Do not install the sensor between two
fuel
pumps or erratic and unreliable readings may occour."
Before the pumps and even the valve is best they said, but after the
pumps
would be fine. Just leave several inches of straight or gentley curved
hose
before and after the sensor.
However this was in reference to marine applications as they no longer
support aviation applications.
Dave Leikam
----- Original Message -----
From: Robin Marks
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 11:10 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel Flow Transducer Relocation
Andair boost for me. Fuel flow is a grey metal unit. I think most
people have a red cube? Or am I confusing that with a fuel pressure
device.
BTW I didn=92t go into too much detail because we changed a bunch of
things this time around. New fuel lines, replaced some tubing, removed
the Andair gascolator from the system.
Robin
Do Not Archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phillip Perry
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 6:50 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Flow Transducer Relocation
Robin,
I'm curious to know which brand of boost pump do you have?
I'm also curious to know if anyone else is seeing this problem using
the Andair boost pump with the FF transducer in Van's stock position.
Thanks,
Phil
On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Robin Marks <Robin@painttheweb.com>
wrote:
Since new my Fuel Flow readings varied widely during flight with the
transducer living in the recommended and what should be it=92s ideal
location in the tunnel we decided to take action. I would experience
well over 1 GPH swings in the readings with a lot of bouncing in the FF
Rate. When I turned on the boost pump I would get reading up to 2.5 GPH
more than actual fuel burn. This made injector tuning nearly impossible
even when reviewing EFIS data. The erratic and inaccurate FF figures
aversively effected my EFIS fuel totalize always indicating more fuel
burned than was actually the case. The fuel pressure readings tended to
bounce around too causing low fuel pressure warnings especially on climb
out.
As others have suggested & done in the past we took the drastic step
of relocating the FF Transducer from the tunnel to forward of the
injector throttle body between the throttle body and the spider. This
modification while time consuming did correct the fuel flow issue both
in standard flight and with the boost pump on. My readings now generally
vary +/- 0.1 GPH vs. wild swings of well over 1 GPH.
Robin
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listtp://forums.ma
tronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browseDay Browse,
Chat, FAQ,
w.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?R
V1======================
m">http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution============
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors |
Sorry I meant to reply that to Robins thread.
Dave Leikam
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Mekler" <amekler@metrocast.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 9:40 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
>
> Kelly,
> I just looked at my injectors cylinder 3 and 4 have the leanest
> injectors(GAMI A) while cylinder 5 has the richest injector (Gami J plus)
> Alan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 8:13 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
>
>
> Perhaps you are working on the wrong end of the problem. #3&4 are
> peaking last, so must be too rich. The rest of the cylinders are peaking
> within 0.4gph of #5. You also will need to gather measurements every 0.2
> gph to better detect the peaks once you get those two cylinders closer
> to the rest.
>
> On 8/21/2010 3:59 PM, Alan Mekler wrote:
>>
>> Patrick,
>>
>> Before switching to the GAMIs my cylinder #5 peaked at 2.5 gallons l
>> than my richest cylinder #3. After changing to GAMIs (my 3^rd set) I'm
>> down to a 1 gallon spread. GAMI has given me the richest injector they
>> make for cylinder # 5 but it still peaks early.
>>
>> Here is my latest flight data flying at 7000 MSL 22 inches/ 2400 rpm.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>> 13 12.5 12.1 11.7 11.3 11.0 10.5 10.3 Fuel flow gal/hr
>>
>> 1420 1438 1468 1474 1453 1438 1422 1403 cylinder #1
>>
>> 1381 1398 1428 1452 1447 1437 1412 1373 cylinder #2
>>
>> 1393 1409 1438 1456 1473 1468 1448 1414 cylinder #3
>>
>> 1400 1417 1449 1468 1477 1470 1450 1414 cylinder #4
>>
>> 1434 1467 1469 1443 1415 1411 1400 1435 cylinder # 5
>>
>> 1410 1430 1463 1474 1458 1441 1420 1397 cylinder #6
>>
>> other method
>>
>> cylinder #1 1472 peak @ 11.5
>>
>> cylinder #2 1451 peak@ 11.2
>>
>> cylinder #3 1472 peak @ 11.1
>>
>> cylinder#4 1477 peak @ 11.2
>>
>> cylinder #5 1473 peak @ 12.1
>>
>> cylinder #6 1474 peak @ 11.5
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick
>> Thyssen
>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 21, 2010 5:22 PM
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
>>
>> ? Have you done the coke bottle check? Has anyone messed with the
>> lines from the spider to injectors? Are we sure the lines are the
>> right ones? The other thing have you had any problems with your EGT
>> system. Could your EGT probes be bad?
>> Peaking or not peaking where they should?
>> Just a few thoughts
>> Patrick Thyssen
>>
>> --- On *Sat, 8/21/10, Alan Mekler /<amekler@metrocast.net>/* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Alan Mekler <amekler@metrocast.net>
>> Subject: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Date: Saturday, August 21, 2010, 11:04 AM
>>
>> I have been trying the GAMI injectors( on the 4^th set now) but found
>> the fuel flow on the cylinders varies widely. My cylinder #5 has the
>> richest injector and it still peaks a gallon or more before the other
>> cylinders Before gamis it was 2.5 gallons.. Has any one had this
>> problem? Any solutions?
>>
>> GAMI does not why the fuel is so unbalanced in this engine. I have 95
>> hours on the engine and all compressions are good. No intake leaks.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>> N668G
>>
>>
>>
>> * *
>> * *
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>> **
>> **
>> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>> **
>> **
>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>> * *
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Miniumum fuel comfort zone |
I go red alarm at 7 gallons on my efis per tank. I have tested both tanks in flight
and all but 1 cup of fuel is useable....so in theory, 1 gallon remaining
would be ok. But I would never fly it that far down unless I have another tank
ready. If you aren't in coordinated flight or have to slip or crab on landing,
you may need more than that 1 cup remaining. Also, I tested in level flight.
My float level drops on descent slightly. 1 cup may not be enough on final.
I think the least fuel I've ever landed with is 10 or 12 gallons total. I'm
conservative/chicken that way.
Tim
On Aug 22, 2010, at 1:37 AM, "AirMike" <Mikeabel@Pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> In re-analyzing my numbers from my trip to OSH - felt that it is best to be on
the ground when you have less than 7 gallons in each tank. I have very accurate
readings from my tank floats and fuel scan is right on the money. Since a
big percentage of accidents are from just running out of gas, I'd like any input
on minimum usable fuel in the std tanks so that we can all keep a comfortable
safety zone.
>
> I also need this info as I fit out my 90 gallon internal tank for the round-the-poles
flight - ok just kidding.......
>
> --------
> OSH '10 or Bust
> Q/B - finally done
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309710#309710
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Fuel Flow Transducer Relocation |
The instruction: . =93Just leave several inches of straight or gently curv
ed
hose before and after the sensor=94 made the tunnel an ideal place to insta
ll
the FF Transducer. Unfortunately the install in my location makes the
instructions nearly impossible to follow. I have a gentle bend leading into
the FFT but a 90 degree turn after the FFT. Funny thing is I now have rock
solid readings while before I had the issues described=85 Go Figure.
Robin
*From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Dave Leikam
*Sent:* Sunday, August 22, 2010 8:15 AM
*To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
*Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Fuel Flow Transducer Relocation
Flo Scan tech support told me "Do not install the sensor between two fuel
pumps or erratic and unreliable readings may occour."
Before the pumps and even the valve is best they said, but after the pumps
would be fine. Just leave several inches of straight or gentley curved hos
e
before and after the sensor.
However this was in reference to marine applications as they no longer
support aviation applications.
Dave Leikam
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Robin Marks <Robin@PaintTheWeb.com>
*To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
*Sent:* Saturday, August 21, 2010 11:10 PM
*Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Fuel Flow Transducer Relocation
Andair boost for me. Fuel flow is a grey metal unit. I think most people
have a red cube? Or am I confusing that with a fuel pressure device.
BTW I didn=92t go into too much detail because we changed a bunch of things
this time around. New fuel lines, replaced some tubing, removed the Andair
gascolator from the system.
Robin
Do Not Archive
*From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Phillip Perry
*Sent:* Saturday, August 21, 2010 6:50 PM
*To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
*Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Fuel Flow Transducer Relocation
Robin,
I'm curious to know which brand of boost pump do you have?
I'm also curious to know if anyone else is seeing this problem using the
Andair boost pump with the FF transducer in Van's stock position.
Thanks,
Phil
On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Robin Marks <Robin@painttheweb.com>
wrote:
Since new my Fuel Flow readings varied widely during flight with the
transducer living in the recommended and what should be it=92s ideal locati
on
in the tunnel we decided to take action. I would experience well over 1 GPH
swings in the readings with a lot of bouncing in the FF Rate. When I turned
on the boost pump I would get reading up to 2.5 GPH more than actual fuel
burn. This made injector tuning nearly impossible even when reviewing EFIS
data. The erratic and inaccurate FF figures aversively effected my EFIS fue
l
totalize always indicating more fuel burned than was actually the case. The
fuel pressure readings tended to bounce around too causing low fuel pressur
e
warnings especially on climb out.
As others have suggested & done in the past we took the drastic step of
relocating the FF Transducer from the tunnel to forward of the injector
throttle body between the throttle body and the spider. This modification
while time consuming did correct the fuel flow issue both in standard fligh
t
and with the boost pump on. My readings now generally vary +/- 0.1 GPH vs.
wild swings of well over 1 GPH.
Robin
* *
* *
*get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
*tp://forums.matronics.com*
*_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
* *
* *
= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
< Un>
Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
*w.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV
1*
=======================< FORU
MS WEB MATRONICS ->
*<>*
m">http://forums.matronics.com
*http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
======================
* *
* *
* *
*href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
*href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
*href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
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Message 11
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|
| Subject: | RV-10 kit 95% complete- FOR SALE |
Job loss forces sale of my RV-10 project
Airframe complete except pants + leg fairings
FlightLine Interior upholstery-front & rear + headliner
Panel mostly complete with:
GRT Sport 8.4" screen- int GPS
iCom A-210 comm
KT-97A xpdr
GPS396 in Gizmos dock
Alt, A/S, Lift Reserve ind.
4 place stereo intercom
Map box, defrost fans, 2 AGM batteries
$66K+ invested. Make an offer.
Mazda 20B engine available.
Phil 630-985-1234
philwhite9 at aol.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309775#309775
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/panel_90percent_small_104.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/plane_assbd_small_461.jpg
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | Re: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors |
About the only thing left is your dry tappet clearances. Your engine
builder should be able to give you what those clearances are. Ideally
the clearances are in the middle of the allowable range and similar for
each
cylinder.................................................................................
Alternatively you could measure the amount of movement of each rocker
arm. Intakes should be the same and exhausts the same. Has anyone looked
inside your sump/intake manifold to ensure there is no obstruction, nor
anything loose in there? Something is wrong if your #3&4 peak last with
the leanest nozzles and #5 peaks first with the richest nozzle.
Still not understanding how the engine could be running smoothly with
that wide a difference in mixtures between cylinders.
On 8/22/2010 7:40 AM, Alan Mekler wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Alan Mekler"<amekler@metrocast.net>
>
> Kelly,
> I just looked at my injectors cylinder 3 and 4 have the leanest
> injectors(GAMI A) while cylinder 5 has the richest injector (Gami J plus)
> Alan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 8:13 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen<kellym@aviating.com>
>
> Perhaps you are working on the wrong end of the problem. #3&4 are
> peaking last, so must be too rich. The rest of the cylinders are peaking
> within 0.4gph of #5. You also will need to gather measurements every 0.2
> gph to better detect the peaks once you get those two cylinders closer
> to the rest.
>
> On 8/21/2010 3:59 PM, Alan Mekler wrote:
>> Patrick,
>>
>> Before switching to the GAMIs my cylinder #5 peaked at 2.5 gallons l
>> than my richest cylinder #3. After changing to GAMIs (my 3^rd set) I'm
>> down to a 1 gallon spread. GAMI has given me the richest injector they
>> make for cylinder # 5 but it still peaks early.
>>
>> Here is my latest flight data flying at 7000 MSL 22 inches/ 2400 rpm.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>> 13 12.5 12.1 11.7 11.3 11.0 10.5 10.3 Fuel flow gal/hr
>>
>> 1420 1438 1468 1474 1453 1438 1422 1403 cylinder #1
>>
>> 1381 1398 1428 1452 1447 1437 1412 1373 cylinder #2
>>
>> 1393 1409 1438 1456 1473 1468 1448 1414 cylinder #3
>>
>> 1400 1417 1449 1468 1477 1470 1450 1414 cylinder #4
>>
>> 1434 1467 1469 1443 1415 1411 1400 1435 cylinder # 5
>>
>> 1410 1430 1463 1474 1458 1441 1420 1397 cylinder #6
>>
>> other method
>>
>> cylinder #1 1472 peak @ 11.5
>>
>> cylinder #2 1451 peak@ 11.2
>>
>> cylinder #3 1472 peak @ 11.1
>>
>> cylinder#4 1477 peak @ 11.2
>>
>> cylinder #5 1473 peak @ 12.1
>>
>> cylinder #6 1474 peak @ 11.5
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick
>> Thyssen
>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 21, 2010 5:22 PM
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
>>
>> ? Have you done the coke bottle check? Has anyone messed with the
>> lines from the spider to injectors? Are we sure the lines are the
>> right ones? The other thing have you had any problems with your EGT
>> system. Could your EGT probes be bad?
>> Peaking or not peaking where they should?
>> Just a few thoughts
>> Patrick Thyssen
>>
>> --- On *Sat, 8/21/10, Alan Mekler /<amekler@metrocast.net>/* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Alan Mekler<amekler@metrocast.net>
>> Subject: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Date: Saturday, August 21, 2010, 11:04 AM
>>
>> I have been trying the GAMI injectors( on the 4^th set now) but found
>> the fuel flow on the cylinders varies widely. My cylinder #5 has the
>> richest injector and it still peaks a gallon or more before the other
>> cylinders Before gamis it was 2.5 gallons.. Has any one had this
>> problem? Any solutions?
>>
>> GAMI does not why the fuel is so unbalanced in this engine. I have 95
>> hours on the engine and all compressions are good. No intake leaks.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>> N668G
>>
>>
>>
>> * *
>> * *
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>> **
>> **
>> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>> **
>> **
>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>> * *
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Relocation |
The problem with the tunnel location puts the sensor between the
electric pump and the engine driven pump. The sensor needs to be
before the pump, or after the engine driven pump.
On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 9:54 AM, Robin Marks <Robin@painttheweb.com> wrote:
> The instruction: . Just leave several inches of straight or gently curved
> hose before and after the sensor made the tunnel an ideal place to install
> the FF Transducer.
Message 14
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|
| Subject: | Re: Miniumum fuel comfort zone |
Before my first flight I disconnected the fuel line at the mechanical fuel
pump and put the fuel line in a gas can. I ran the electric fuel pump and
pumped both tanks dry (I did this to calibrate my fuel flow transducer).
After doing that I was able to drain 5 full strainers out of one tank and 9
strainers out of the other. So for my plane almost all 30 gallons in each
tank is useable.
I have (intentionally) run a tank dry in flight and confirmed this result
for my plane.
However, as a rule, I don't like to see less than 5 gallons in each tank. I
always like having the option of switching tanks in the event something
plugs the line in use.
-Jim
N312JE
On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 9:32 AM, Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com> wrote:
>
> I go red alarm at 7 gallons on my efis per tank. I have tested both tanks
> in flight and all but 1 cup of fuel is useable....so in theory, 1 gallon
> remaining would be ok. But I would never fly it that far down unless I have
> another tank ready. If you aren't in coordinated flight or have to slip or
> crab on landing, you may need more than that 1 cup remaining. Also, I
> tested in level flight. My float level drops on descent slightly. 1 cup may
> not be enough on final. I think the least fuel I've ever landed with is 10
> or 12 gallons total. I'm conservative/chicken that way.
> Tim
>
>
> On Aug 22, 2010, at 1:37 AM, "AirMike" <Mikeabel@Pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > In re-analyzing my numbers from my trip to OSH - felt that it is best to
> be on the ground when you have less than 7 gallons in each tank. I have very
> accurate readings from my tank floats and fuel scan is right on the money.
> Since a big percentage of accidents are from just running out of gas, I'd
> like any input on minimum usable fuel in the std tanks so that we can all
> keep a comfortable safety zone.
> >
> > I also need this info as I fit out my 90 gallon internal tank for the
> round-the-poles flight - ok just kidding.......
> >
> > --------
> > OSH '10 or Bust
> > Q/B - finally done
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309710#309710
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | Trutrak Digiflite II VSGV |
After the upgrade to fix the fading display (V2.36?) , The AP wants to
turn hard right or left when turned on. It is supposed to synchronize to
heading and altitude. Using the gyro set function will occasionally fix
the problem but it recurs on the next flight. Anyone else have these
symptoms. Seems to me to be a controller failure of the internal solid
"level" gyro.
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors |
HAVE YOU DONE THE COKE BOTTLE TEST WITHOUT- THE INJECTORS. SINCE EACH INJ
ECTOR WILL BE DIFFERENT NOW.- HAVE YOU LOOKED AT YOUR PROBES? Maybe swap
a few probes and see what you get.
Patrick Thyssen
--- On Sun, 8/22/10, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
About the only thing left is your dry tappet clearances. Your engine
builder should be able to give you what those clearances are. Ideally
the clearances are in the middle of the allowable range and similar for
each
cylinder...................................................................
..............
Alternatively you could measure the amount of movement of each rocker
arm. Intakes should be the same and exhausts the same. Has anyone looked
inside your sump/intake manifold to ensure there is no obstruction, nor
anything loose in there? Something is wrong if your #3&4 peak last with
the leanest nozzles and #5 peaks first with the richest nozzle.
Still not understanding how the engine could be running smoothly with
that wide a difference in mixtures between cylinders.
On 8/22/2010 7:40 AM, Alan Mekler wrote:
> -->- RV10-List message posted by: "Alan Mekler"<amekler@metrocast.net>
>
> Kelly,
> I just looked at my injectors cylinder 3 and 4 have the leanest
> injectors(GAMI A) while cylinder 5 has the richest injector (Gami J plus)
> Alan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 8:13 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
>
> -->- RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen<kellym@aviating.com>
>
>- - Perhaps you are working on the wrong end of the problem. #3&4 are
> peaking last, so must be too rich. The rest of the cylinders are peaking
> within 0.4gph of #5. You also will need to gather measurements every 0.2
> gph to better detect the peaks once you get those two cylinders closer
> to the rest.
>
> On 8/21/2010 3:59 PM, Alan Mekler wrote:
>> Patrick,
>>
>> Before switching to the GAMIs my cylinder #5 peaked at 2.5 gallons l
>> than my richest cylinder #3. After changing to GAMIs (my 3^rd set) I'm
>> down to a 1 gallon spread. GAMI has given me the richest injector they
>> make for cylinder # 5 but it still peaks early.
>>
>> Here is my latest flight data flying at 7000 MSL 22 inches/ 2400 rpm.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>> 13 12.5 12.1 11.7 11.3 11.0 10.5 10.3 Fuel flow gal/hr
>>
>> 1420 1438 1468 1474 1453 1438 1422 1403 cylinder #1
>>
>> 1381 1398 1428 1452 1447 1437 1412 1373 cylinder #2
>>
>> 1393 1409 1438 1456 1473 1468 1448 1414 cylinder #3
>>
>> 1400 1417 1449 1468 1477 1470 1450 1414 cylinder #4
>>
>> 1434 1467 1469 1443 1415 1411 1400 1435 cylinder # 5
>>
>> 1410 1430 1463 1474 1458 1441 1420 1397 cylinder #6
>>
>> other method
>>
>> cylinder #1 1472 peak @ 11.5
>>
>> cylinder #2 1451 peak@ 11.2
>>
>> cylinder #3 1472 peak @ 11.1
>>
>> cylinder#4 1477 peak @ 11.2
>>
>> cylinder #5 1473 peak @ 12.1
>>
>> cylinder #6 1474 peak @ 11.5
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick
>> Thyssen
>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 21, 2010 5:22 PM
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
>>
>> ? Have you done the coke bottle check? Has anyone messed with the
>> lines from the spider to injectors? Are we sure the lines are the
>> right ones? The other thing have you had any problems with your EGT
>> system. Could your EGT probes be bad?
>> Peaking or not peaking where they should?
>> Just a few thoughts
>> Patrick Thyssen
>>
>> --- On *Sat, 8/21/10, Alan Mekler /<amekler@metrocast.net>/* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Alan Mekler<amekler@metrocast.net>
>> Subject: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Date: Saturday, August 21, 2010, 11:04 AM
>>
>> I have been trying the GAMI injectors( on the 4^th set now) but found
>> the fuel flow on the cylinders varies widely. My cylinder #5 has the
>> richest injector and it still peaks a gallon or more before the other
>> cylinders Before gamis it was 2.5 gallons.. Has any one had this
>> problem? Any solutions?
>>
>> GAMI does not why the fuel is so unbalanced in this engine. I have 95
>> hours on the engine and all compressions are good. No intake leaks.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>> N668G
>>
>>
>>
>> *- *
>> *- *
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>> **
>> **
>> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>> **
>> **
>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>> *- *
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
le, List Admin.
Message 17
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| Subject: | TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors |
Patrick,
Give me the details of the coke bottle test. I'm going to try switching
probes.
The odd thing is the engine runs smooth.
Alan
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Thyssen
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 5:53 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
HAVE YOU DONE THE COKE BOTTLE TEST WITHOUT THE INJECTORS. SINCE EACH
INJECTOR WILL BE DIFFERENT NOW. HAVE YOU LOOKED AT YOUR PROBES? Maybe swap
a few probes and see what you get.
Patrick Thyssen
--- On Sun, 8/22/10, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
About the only thing left is your dry tappet clearances. Your engine
builder should be able to give you what those clearances are. Ideally
the clearances are in the middle of the allowable range and similar for
each
cylinder....................................................................
.............
Alternatively you could measure the amount of movement of each rocker
arm. Intakes should be the same and exhausts the same. Has anyone looked
inside your sump/intake manifold to ensure there is no obstruction, nor
anything loose in there? Something is wrong if your #3&4 peak last with
the leanest nozzles and #5 peaks first with the richest nozzle.
Still not understanding how the engine could be running smoothly with
that wide a difference in mixtures between cylinders.
On 8/22/2010 7:40 AM, Alan Mekler wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Alan Mekler"<amekler@metrocast.net>
>
> Kelly,
> I just looked at my injectors cylinder 3 and 4 have the leanest
> injectors(GAMI A) while cylinder 5 has the richest injector (Gami J plus)
> Alan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 8:13 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen<kellym@aviating.com>
>
> Perhaps you are working on the wrong end of the problem. #3&4 are
> peaking last, so must be too rich. The rest of the cylinders are peaking
> within 0.4gph of #5. You also will need to gather measurements every 0.2
> gph to better detect the peaks once you get those two cylinders closer
> to the rest.
>
> On 8/21/2010 3:59 PM, Alan Mekler wrote:
>> Patrick,
>>
>> Before switching to the GAMIs my cylinder #5 peaked at 2.5 gallons l
>> than my richest cylinder #3. After changing to GAMIs (my 3^rd set) I'm
>> down to a 1 gallon spread. GAMI has given me the richest injector they
>> make for cylinder # 5 but it still peaks early.
>>
>> Here is my latest flight data flying at 7000 MSL 22 inches/ 2400 rpm.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>> 13 12.5 12.1 11.7 11.3 11.0 10.5 10.3 Fuel flow gal/hr
>>
>> 1420 1438 1468 1474 1453 1438 1422 1403 cylinder #1
>>
>> 1381 1398 1428 1452 1447 1437 1412 1373 cylinder #2
>>
>> 1393 1409 1438 1456 1473 1468 1448 1414 cylinder #3
>>
>> 1400 1417 1449 1468 1477 1470 1450 1414 cylinder #4
>>
>> 1434 1467 1469 1443 1415 1411 1400 1435 cylinder # 5
>>
>> 1410 1430 1463 1474 1458 1441 1420 1397 cylinder #6
>>
>> other method
>>
>> cylinder #1 1472 peak @ 11.5
>>
>> cylinder #2 1451 peak@ 11.2
>>
>> cylinder #3 1472 peak @ 11.1
>>
>> cylinder#4 1477 peak @ 11.2
>>
>> cylinder #5 1473 peak @ 12.1
>>
>> cylinder #6 1474 peak @ 11.5
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick
>> Thyssen
>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 21, 2010 5:22 PM
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
>>
>> ? Have you done the coke bottle check? Has anyone messed with the
>> lines from the spider to injectors? Are we sure the lines are the
>> right ones? The other thing have you had any problems with your EGT
>> system. Could your EGT probes be bad?
>> Peaking or not peaking where they should?
>> Just a few thoughts
>> Patrick Thyssen
>>
>> --- On *Sat, 8/21/10, Alan Mekler /<amekler@metrocast.net>/* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Alan Mekler<amekler@metrocast.net>
>> Subject: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Date: Saturday, August 21, 2010, 11:04 AM
>>
>> I have been trying the GAMI injectors( on the 4^th set now) but found
>> the fuel flow on the cylinders varies widely. My cylinder #5 has the
>> richest injector and it still peaks a gallon or more before the other
>> cylinders Before gamis it was 2.5 gallons.. Has any one had this
>> problem? Any solutions?
>>
>> GAMI does not why the fuel is so unbalanced in this engine. I have 95
>> hours on the engine and all compressions are good. No intake leaks.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>> N668G
>>
>>
>>
>> * *
>> * *
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>> **
>> **
>> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>> **
>> **
>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>> * *
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>atronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.co=======================
Message 18
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| Subject: | TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors |
I'm going to talk to Mattituck tomorrow.
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
About the only thing left is your dry tappet clearances. Your engine
builder should be able to give you what those clearances are. Ideally
the clearances are in the middle of the allowable range and similar for
each
cylinder....................................................................
.............
Alternatively you could measure the amount of movement of each rocker
arm. Intakes should be the same and exhausts the same. Has anyone looked
inside your sump/intake manifold to ensure there is no obstruction, nor
anything loose in there? Something is wrong if your #3&4 peak last with
the leanest nozzles and #5 peaks first with the richest nozzle.
Still not understanding how the engine could be running smoothly with
that wide a difference in mixtures between cylinders.
On 8/22/2010 7:40 AM, Alan Mekler wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Alan Mekler"<amekler@metrocast.net>
>
> Kelly,
> I just looked at my injectors cylinder 3 and 4 have the leanest
> injectors(GAMI A) while cylinder 5 has the richest injector (Gami J plus)
> Alan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 8:13 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen<kellym@aviating.com>
>
> Perhaps you are working on the wrong end of the problem. #3&4 are
> peaking last, so must be too rich. The rest of the cylinders are peaking
> within 0.4gph of #5. You also will need to gather measurements every 0.2
> gph to better detect the peaks once you get those two cylinders closer
> to the rest.
>
> On 8/21/2010 3:59 PM, Alan Mekler wrote:
>> Patrick,
>>
>> Before switching to the GAMIs my cylinder #5 peaked at 2.5 gallons l
>> than my richest cylinder #3. After changing to GAMIs (my 3^rd set) I'm
>> down to a 1 gallon spread. GAMI has given me the richest injector they
>> make for cylinder # 5 but it still peaks early.
>>
>> Here is my latest flight data flying at 7000 MSL 22 inches/ 2400 rpm.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>> 13 12.5 12.1 11.7 11.3 11.0 10.5 10.3 Fuel flow gal/hr
>>
>> 1420 1438 1468 1474 1453 1438 1422 1403 cylinder #1
>>
>> 1381 1398 1428 1452 1447 1437 1412 1373 cylinder #2
>>
>> 1393 1409 1438 1456 1473 1468 1448 1414 cylinder #3
>>
>> 1400 1417 1449 1468 1477 1470 1450 1414 cylinder #4
>>
>> 1434 1467 1469 1443 1415 1411 1400 1435 cylinder # 5
>>
>> 1410 1430 1463 1474 1458 1441 1420 1397 cylinder #6
>>
>> other method
>>
>> cylinder #1 1472 peak @ 11.5
>>
>> cylinder #2 1451 peak@ 11.2
>>
>> cylinder #3 1472 peak @ 11.1
>>
>> cylinder#4 1477 peak @ 11.2
>>
>> cylinder #5 1473 peak @ 12.1
>>
>> cylinder #6 1474 peak @ 11.5
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick
>> Thyssen
>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 21, 2010 5:22 PM
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
>>
>> ? Have you done the coke bottle check? Has anyone messed with the
>> lines from the spider to injectors? Are we sure the lines are the
>> right ones? The other thing have you had any problems with your EGT
>> system. Could your EGT probes be bad?
>> Peaking or not peaking where they should?
>> Just a few thoughts
>> Patrick Thyssen
>>
>> --- On *Sat, 8/21/10, Alan Mekler /<amekler@metrocast.net>/* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Alan Mekler<amekler@metrocast.net>
>> Subject: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Date: Saturday, August 21, 2010, 11:04 AM
>>
>> I have been trying the GAMI injectors( on the 4^th set now) but found
>> the fuel flow on the cylinders varies widely. My cylinder #5 has the
>> richest injector and it still peaks a gallon or more before the other
>> cylinders Before gamis it was 2.5 gallons.. Has any one had this
>> problem? Any solutions?
>>
>> GAMI does not why the fuel is so unbalanced in this engine. I have 95
>> hours on the engine and all compressions are good. No intake leaks.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>> N668G
>>
>>
>>
>> * *
>> * *
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>> **
>> **
>> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>> **
>> **
>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>> * *
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors |
Simple, but I don't think it will show anything if the engine is
running smoothly. You don't say if it runs smoothly LOP.
Coke bottle, or baby food jar test.....six bottles, disconnect each
injector fuel line, and carefully(minimal or no bending) place each one
in bottle. Place mixture full rich, turn on boost pump and observe flow.
Shut off before any bottle fills. Compare the volume in each bottle.
Remove injectors and carefully install on each fuel line, repeat bottle
test observing spray pattern from each injector. Should be uniform spray
from each one.
On 8/22/2010 4:00 PM, Alan Mekler wrote:
>
> Patrick,
>
> Give me the details of the coke bottle test. Im going to try
> switching probes.
>
> The odd thing is the engine runs smooth.
>
> Alan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick
> Thyssen
> *Sent:* Sunday, August 22, 2010 5:53 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
>
> HAVE YOU DONE THE COKE BOTTLE TEST WITHOUT THE INJECTORS. SINCE EACH
> INJECTOR WILL BE DIFFERENT NOW. HAVE YOU LOOKED AT YOUR PROBES? Maybe
> swap a few probes and see what you get.
> Patrick Thyssen
>
> --- On *Sun, 8/22/10, Kelly McMullen /<kellym@aviating.com>/* wrote:
>
>
> From: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Date: Sunday, August 22, 2010, 3:46 PM
>
> </mc/compose?to=kellym@aviating.com>>
>
>
> About the only thing left is your dry tappet clearances. Your engine
> builder should be able to give you what those clearances are. Ideally
> the clearances are in the middle of the allowable range and similar for
> each
> cylinder.................................................................................
>
> Alternatively you could measure the amount of movement of each rocker
> arm. Intakes should be the same and exhausts the same. Has anyone looked
> inside your sump/intake manifold to ensure there is no obstruction, nor
> anything loose in there? Something is wrong if your #3&4 peak last with
> the leanest nozzles and #5 peaks first with the richest nozzle.
> Still not understanding how the engine could be running smoothly with
> that wide a difference in mixtures between cylinders.
>
> On 8/22/2010 7:40 AM, Alan Mekler wrote:
> </mc/compose?to=amekler@metrocast.net>>
> >
> > Kelly,
> > I just looked at my injectors cylinder 3 and 4 have the leanest
> > injectors(GAMI A) while cylinder 5 has the richest injector (Gami J plus)
> > Alan
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> </mc/compose?to=owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> </mc/compose?to=owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>] On Behalf Of
> Kelly McMullen
> > Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 8:13 PM
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com </mc/compose?to=rv10-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
> >
> </mc/compose?to=kellym@aviating.com>>
> >
> > Perhaps you are working on the wrong end of the problem. #3&4 are
> > peaking last, so must be too rich. The rest of the cylinders are peaking
> > within 0.4gph of #5. You also will need to gather measurements every 0.2
> > gph to better detect the peaks once you get those two cylinders closer
> > to the rest.
> >
> > On 8/21/2010 3:59 PM, Alan Mekler wrote:
> >> Patrick,
> >>
> >> Before switching to the GAMIs my cylinder #5 peaked at 2.5 gallons l
> >> than my richest cylinder #3. After changing to GAMIs (my 3^rd set) I'm
> >> down to a 1 gallon spread. GAMI has given me the richest injector they
> >> make for cylinder # 5 but it still peaks early.
> >>
> >> Here is my latest flight data flying at 7000 MSL 22 inches/ 2400 rpm.
> >>
> >> Alan
> >>
> >> 13 12.5 12.1 11.7 11.3 11.0 10.5 10.3 Fuel flow gal/hr
> >>
> >> 1420 1438 1468 1474 1453 1438 1422 1403 cylinder #1
> >>
> >> 1381 1398 1428 1452 1447 1437 1412 1373 cylinder #2
> >>
> >> 1393 1409 1438 1456 1473 1468 1448 1414 cylinder #3
> >>
> >> 1400 1417 1449 1468 1477 1470 1450 1414 cylinder #4
> >>
> >> 1434 1467 1469 1443 1415 1411 1400 1435 cylinder # 5
> >>
> >> 1410 1430 1463 1474 1458 1441 1420 1397 cylinder #6
> >>
> >> other method
> >>
> >> cylinder #1 1472 peak @ 11.5
> >>
> >> cylinder #2 1451 peak@ 11.2
> >>
> >> cylinder #3 1472 peak @ 11.1
> >>
> >> cylinder#4 1477 peak @ 11.2
> >>
> >> cylinder #5 1473 peak @ 12.1
> >>
> >> cylinder #6 1474 peak @ 11.5
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> </mc/compose?to=owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> </mc/compose?to=owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>] *On Behalf Of
> *Patrick
> >> Thyssen
> >> *Sent:* Saturday, August 21, 2010 5:22 PM
> >> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com </mc/compose?to=rv10-list@matronics.com>
> >> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
> >>
> >> ? Have you done the coke bottle check? Has anyone messed with the
> >> lines from the spider to injectors? Are we sure the lines are the
> >> right ones? The other thing have you had any problems with your EGT
> >> system. Could your EGT probes be bad?
> >> Peaking or not peaking where they should?
> >> Just a few thoughts
> >> Patrick Thyssen
> >>
> >> --- On *Sat, 8/21/10, Alan Mekler /<amekler@metrocast.net
> </mc/compose?to=amekler@metrocast.net>>/* wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Alan Mekler<amekler@metrocast.net
> </mc/compose?to=amekler@metrocast.net>>
> >> Subject: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
> >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com </mc/compose?to=rv10-list@matronics.com>
> >> Date: Saturday, August 21, 2010, 11:04 AM
> >>
> >> I have been trying the GAMI injectors( on the 4^th set now) but found
> >> the fuel flow on the cylinders varies widely. My cylinder #5 has the
> >> richest injector and it still peaks a gallon or more before the other
> >> cylinders Before gamis it was 2.5 gallons.. Has any one had this
> >> problem? Any solutions?
> >>
> >> GAMI does not why the fuel is so unbalanced in this engine. I have 95
> >> hours on the engine and all compressions are good. No intake leaks.
> >>
> >> Alan
> >>
> >> N668G
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> * *
> >> * *
> >> **
> >> **
> >> **
> >> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
> >> **
> >> **
> >> *http://forums.matronics.com*
> >> **
> >> **
> >> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> >> * *
> >> *
> >>
> >>
> >> *
> >
> >atronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.co========================http://www.matronics.com/cont===============
>
>
> *
> Navigator to
> much much
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> Web
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ===========*
> * *
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
>
> **
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors |
That's why you need to know the probes are OK. They may be giving you a wro
ng signal. The coke bottle test is, undo your injector lines from the injec
tors, put the same size glass bottle under them and turn on your boost pump
, fill bottle about 3/4 and see if the same amount of fuel is in all the gl
ass bottles. Normally you do it with your injectors on but since you have d
ifferent injectors it won't work that way.
Just my way of checking.
Patrick Thyssen
Have you done the SB on the throttle=C2- body. The gasket and G on plug.
I just checked another RV10 and he had not done it and it was loose.
--- On Sun, 8/22/10, Alan Mekler <amekler@metrocast.net> wrote:
From: Alan Mekler <amekler@metrocast.net>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
=0A=0A=0A =0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0APatrick, =0A=0A=C2-Give me the deta
ils of the coke bottle=0Atest. I=99m going to try switching probes.
=0A=0AThe odd thing is the engine runs smooth. =0A=0AAlan =0A=0A =C2- =0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AFrom:=0Aowner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com=0A[
mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On=0ABehalf Of Patrick Thyssen
=0ASent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 5:53=0APM
=0ATo: rv10-list@matronics.com
=0ASubject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540=0Aand GAMI injectors =0A=0A=0A=0A =C2
- =0A=0A=0A =0A =0A HAVE YOU DONE THE COKE BOTTLE TEST WITHOUT=C2- TH
E=0A INJECTORS. SINCE EACH INJECTOR WILL BE DIFFERENT NOW.=C2- HAVE YOU
LOOKED=0A AT YOUR PROBES? Maybe swap a few probes and see what you get.
=0A Patrick Thyssen
=0A
=0A --- On Sun, 8/22/10, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>=0A wrote:
=0A
=0A From: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
=0A Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
=0A To: rv10-list@matronics.com
=0A Date: Sunday, August 22, 2010, 3:46 PM =0A =0A --> RV10-List message
posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
=0A
=0A
=0A About the only thing left is your dry tappet clearances. Your engine
=0A builder should be able to give you what those clearances are. Ideally
=0A the clearances are in the middle of the allowable range and similar fo
r
=0A each
=0A cylinder..............................................................
...................=0A
=0A Alternatively you could measure the amount of movement of each rocker
=0A arm. Intakes should be the same and exhausts the same. Has anyone look
ed
=0A inside your sump/intake manifold to ensure there is no obstruction, no
r
=0A anything loose in there? Something is wrong if your #3&4 peak last wit
h
=0A the leanest nozzles and #5 peaks first with the richest nozzle.
=0A Still not understanding how the engine could be running smoothly with
=0A that wide a difference in mixtures between cylinders.
=0A
=0A On 8/22/2010 7:40 AM, Alan Mekler wrote:
=0A > -->=C2- RV10-List message posted by: "Alan Mekler"<amekler@metroca
st.net>
=0A >
=0A > Kelly,
=0A > I just looked at my injectors cylinder 3 and 4 have the leanest
=0A > injectors(GAMI A) while cylinder 5 has the richest injector (Gami J
=0A plus)
=0A > Alan
=0A >
=0A > -----Original Message-----
=0A > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
=0A > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]=0A On Behalf Of Kelly
McMullen
=0A > Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 8:13 PM
=0A > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
=0A > Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
=0A >
=0A > -->=C2- RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen<kellym@aviatin
g.com>
=0A >
=0A >=C2- =C2- Perhaps you are working on the wrong end of the problem
.=0A #3&4 are
=0A > peaking last, so must be too rich. The rest of the cylinders are pea
king
=0A > within 0.4gph of #5. You also will need to gather measurements every
0.2
=0A > gph to better detect the peaks once you get those two cylinders clos
er
=0A > to the rest.
=0A >
=0A > On 8/21/2010 3:59 PM, Alan Mekler wrote:
=0A >> Patrick,
=0A >>
=0A >> Before switching to the GAMIs my cylinder #5 peaked at 2.5 gallons
l
=0A >> than my richest cylinder #3. After changing to GAMIs (my 3^rd set)
=0A I'm
=0A >> down to a 1 gallon spread. GAMI has given me the richest injector
=0A they
=0A >> make for cylinder # 5 but it still peaks early.
=0A >>
=0A >> Here is my latest flight data flying at 7000 MSL 22 inches/ 2400=0A
rpm.
=0A >>
=0A >> Alan
=0A >>
=0A >> 13 12.5 12.1 11.7 11.3 11.0 10.5 10.3 Fuel flow gal/hr
=0A >>
=0A >> 1420 1438 1468 1474 1453 1438 1422 1403 cylinder #1
=0A >>
=0A >> 1381 1398 1428 1452 1447 1437 1412 1373 cylinder #2
=0A >>
=0A >> 1393 1409 1438 1456 1473 1468 1448 1414 cylinder #3
=0A >>
=0A >> 1400 1417 1449 1468 1477 1470 1450 1414 cylinder #4
=0A >>
=0A >> 1434 1467 1469 1443 1415 1411 1400 1435 cylinder # 5
=0A >>
=0A >> 1410 1430 1463 1474 1458 1441 1420 1397 cylinder #6
=0A >>
=0A >> other method
=0A >>
=0A >> cylinder #1 1472 peak @ 11.5
=0A >>
=0A >> cylinder #2 1451 peak@ 11.2
=0A >>
=0A >> cylinder #3 1472 peak @ 11.1
=0A >>
=0A >> cylinder#4 1477 peak @ 11.2
=0A >>
=0A >> cylinder #5 1473 peak @ 12.1
=0A >>
=0A >> cylinder #6 1474 peak @ 11.5
=0A >>
=0A >>=0A ---------------------------------------------------------------
---------
=0A >>
=0A >> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
=0A >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]=0A *On Behalf Of *Pa
trick
=0A >> Thyssen
=0A >> *Sent:* Saturday, August 21, 2010 5:22 PM
=0A >> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
=0A >> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
=0A >>
=0A >> ? Have you done the coke bottle check? Has anyone messed with the
=0A >> lines from the spider to injectors? Are we sure the lines are the
=0A >> right ones? The other thing have you had any problems with your EGT
=0A >> system. Could your EGT probes be bad?
=0A >> Peaking or not peaking where they should?
=0A >> Just a few thoughts
=0A >> Patrick Thyssen
=0A >>
=0A >> --- On *Sat, 8/21/10, Alan Mekler /<amekler@metrocast.net>/* wrote:
=0A >>
=0A >>
=0A >> From: Alan Mekler<amekler@metrocast.net>
=0A >> Subject: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
=0A >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
=0A >> Date: Saturday, August 21, 2010, 11:04 AM
=0A >>
=0A >> I have been trying the GAMI injectors( on the 4^th set now) but=0A
found
=0A >> the fuel flow on the cylinders varies widely. My cylinder #5 has th
e
=0A >> richest injector and it still peaks a gallon or more before the=0A
other
=0A >> cylinders Before gamis it was 2.5 gallons.. Has any one had this
=0A >> problem? Any solutions?
=0A >>
=0A >> GAMI does not why the fuel is so unbalanced in this engine. I have
=0A 95
=0A >> hours on the engine and all compressions are good. No intake leaks.
=0A >>
=0A >> Alan
=0A >>
=0A >> N668G
=0A >>
=0A >>
=0A >>
=0A >> *=C2- *
=0A >> *=C2- *
=0A >> **
=0A >> **
=0A >> **
=0A >> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
=0A >> **
=0A >> **
=0A >> *http://forums.matronics.com*
=0A >> **
=0A >> **
=0A >> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
=0A >> *=C2- *
=0A >> *
=0A >>
=0A >>
=0A >> *
=0A >
=0A >atronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List" target="_blank">http://www.matr
onics.co======================
== http://www.matronics.com/cont=============
==
=0A
Navigator to
much much
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?RV10-List
Web
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
===========
=0A =0A =0A=0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
Message 21
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| Subject: | TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors |
Sounds simple enough. I have the precision silver hawk ex fuel injection
system.
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
Simple, but I don't think it will show anything if the engine is
running smoothly. You don't say if it runs smoothly LOP.
Coke bottle, or baby food jar test.....six bottles, disconnect each
injector fuel line, and carefully(minimal or no bending) place each one
in bottle. Place mixture full rich, turn on boost pump and observe flow.
Shut off before any bottle fills. Compare the volume in each bottle.
Remove injectors and carefully install on each fuel line, repeat bottle
test observing spray pattern from each injector. Should be uniform spray
from each one.
On 8/22/2010 4:00 PM, Alan Mekler wrote:
>
> Patrick,
>
> Give me the details of the coke bottle test. I'm going to try
> switching probes.
>
> The odd thing is the engine runs smooth.
>
> Alan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick
> Thyssen
> *Sent:* Sunday, August 22, 2010 5:53 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
>
> HAVE YOU DONE THE COKE BOTTLE TEST WITHOUT THE INJECTORS. SINCE EACH
> INJECTOR WILL BE DIFFERENT NOW. HAVE YOU LOOKED AT YOUR PROBES? Maybe
> swap a few probes and see what you get.
> Patrick Thyssen
>
> --- On *Sun, 8/22/10, Kelly McMullen /<kellym@aviating.com>/* wrote:
>
>
> From: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Date: Sunday, August 22, 2010, 3:46 PM
>
> </mc/compose?to=kellym@aviating.com>>
>
>
> About the only thing left is your dry tappet clearances. Your engine
> builder should be able to give you what those clearances are. Ideally
> the clearances are in the middle of the allowable range and similar for
> each
>
cylinder....................................................................
.............
>
> Alternatively you could measure the amount of movement of each rocker
> arm. Intakes should be the same and exhausts the same. Has anyone looked
> inside your sump/intake manifold to ensure there is no obstruction, nor
> anything loose in there? Something is wrong if your #3&4 peak last with
> the leanest nozzles and #5 peaks first with the richest nozzle.
> Still not understanding how the engine could be running smoothly with
> that wide a difference in mixtures between cylinders.
>
> On 8/22/2010 7:40 AM, Alan Mekler wrote:
> </mc/compose?to=amekler@metrocast.net>>
> >
> > Kelly,
> > I just looked at my injectors cylinder 3 and 4 have the leanest
> > injectors(GAMI A) while cylinder 5 has the richest injector (Gami J
plus)
> > Alan
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> </mc/compose?to=owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> </mc/compose?to=owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>] On Behalf Of
> Kelly McMullen
> > Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 8:13 PM
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com </mc/compose?to=rv10-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
> >
> </mc/compose?to=kellym@aviating.com>>
> >
> > Perhaps you are working on the wrong end of the problem. #3&4 are
> > peaking last, so must be too rich. The rest of the cylinders are peaking
> > within 0.4gph of #5. You also will need to gather measurements every 0.2
> > gph to better detect the peaks once you get those two cylinders closer
> > to the rest.
> >
> > On 8/21/2010 3:59 PM, Alan Mekler wrote:
> >> Patrick,
> >>
> >> Before switching to the GAMIs my cylinder #5 peaked at 2.5 gallons l
> >> than my richest cylinder #3. After changing to GAMIs (my 3^rd set) I'm
> >> down to a 1 gallon spread. GAMI has given me the richest injector they
> >> make for cylinder # 5 but it still peaks early.
> >>
> >> Here is my latest flight data flying at 7000 MSL 22 inches/ 2400 rpm.
> >>
> >> Alan
> >>
> >> 13 12.5 12.1 11.7 11.3 11.0 10.5 10.3 Fuel flow gal/hr
> >>
> >> 1420 1438 1468 1474 1453 1438 1422 1403 cylinder #1
> >>
> >> 1381 1398 1428 1452 1447 1437 1412 1373 cylinder #2
> >>
> >> 1393 1409 1438 1456 1473 1468 1448 1414 cylinder #3
> >>
> >> 1400 1417 1449 1468 1477 1470 1450 1414 cylinder #4
> >>
> >> 1434 1467 1469 1443 1415 1411 1400 1435 cylinder # 5
> >>
> >> 1410 1430 1463 1474 1458 1441 1420 1397 cylinder #6
> >>
> >> other method
> >>
> >> cylinder #1 1472 peak @ 11.5
> >>
> >> cylinder #2 1451 peak@ 11.2
> >>
> >> cylinder #3 1472 peak @ 11.1
> >>
> >> cylinder#4 1477 peak @ 11.2
> >>
> >> cylinder #5 1473 peak @ 12.1
> >>
> >> cylinder #6 1474 peak @ 11.5
> >>
> >>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> </mc/compose?to=owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> </mc/compose?to=owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>] *On Behalf Of
> *Patrick
> >> Thyssen
> >> *Sent:* Saturday, August 21, 2010 5:22 PM
> >> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com </mc/compose?to=rv10-list@matronics.com>
> >> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
> >>
> >> ? Have you done the coke bottle check? Has anyone messed with the
> >> lines from the spider to injectors? Are we sure the lines are the
> >> right ones? The other thing have you had any problems with your EGT
> >> system. Could your EGT probes be bad?
> >> Peaking or not peaking where they should?
> >> Just a few thoughts
> >> Patrick Thyssen
> >>
> >> --- On *Sat, 8/21/10, Alan Mekler /<amekler@metrocast.net
> </mc/compose?to=amekler@metrocast.net>>/* wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Alan Mekler<amekler@metrocast.net
> </mc/compose?to=amekler@metrocast.net>>
> >> Subject: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
> >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com </mc/compose?to=rv10-list@matronics.com>
> >> Date: Saturday, August 21, 2010, 11:04 AM
> >>
> >> I have been trying the GAMI injectors( on the 4^th set now) but found
> >> the fuel flow on the cylinders varies widely. My cylinder #5 has the
> >> richest injector and it still peaks a gallon or more before the other
> >> cylinders Before gamis it was 2.5 gallons.. Has any one had this
> >> problem? Any solutions?
> >>
> >> GAMI does not why the fuel is so unbalanced in this engine. I have 95
> >> hours on the engine and all compressions are good. No intake leaks.
> >>
> >> Alan
> >>
> >> N668G
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> * *
> >> * *
> >> **
> >> **
> >> **
> >> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
> >> **
> >> **
> >> *http://forums.matronics.com*
> >> **
> >> **
> >> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> >> * *
> >> *
> >>
> >>
> >> *
> >
> >atronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"
>
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.co========================http://www.ma
tronics.com/cont===============
>
>
> *
> Navigator to
> much much
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
> Web
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
===========*
> * *
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
>
> **
Message 22
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| Subject: | TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors |
Patrick,
Which SB are you referring to?
Alan
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Thyssen
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 7:24 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
That's why you need to know the probes are OK. They may be giving you a
wrong signal. The coke bottle test is, undo your injector lines from the
injectors, put the same size glass bottle under them and turn on your boost
pump, fill bottle about 3/4 and see if the same amount of fuel is in all the
glass bottles. Normally you do it with your injectors on but since you have
different injectors it won't work that way.
Just my way of checking.
Patrick Thyssen
Have you done the SB on the throttle body. The gasket and G on plug. I just
checked another RV10 and he had not done it and it was loose.
--- On Sun, 8/22/10, Alan Mekler <amekler@metrocast.net> wrote:
From: Alan Mekler <amekler@metrocast.net>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
Patrick,
Give me the details of the coke bottle test. I'm going to try switching
probes.
The odd thing is the engine runs smooth.
Alan
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Thyssen
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 5:53 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
HAVE YOU DONE THE COKE BOTTLE TEST WITHOUT THE INJECTORS. SINCE EACH
INJECTOR WILL BE DIFFERENT NOW. HAVE YOU LOOKED AT YOUR PROBES? Maybe swap
a few probes and see what you get.
Patrick Thyssen
--- On Sun, 8/22/10, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
About the only thing left is your dry tappet clearances. Your engine
builder should be able to give you what those clearances are. Ideally
the clearances are in the middle of the allowable range and similar for
each
cylinder....................................................................
.............
Alternatively you could measure the amount of movement of each rocker
arm. Intakes should be the same and exhausts the same. Has anyone looked
inside your sump/intake manifold to ensure there is no obstruction, nor
anything loose in there? Something is wrong if your #3&4 peak last with
the leanest nozzles and #5 peaks first with the richest nozzle.
Still not understanding how the engine could be running smoothly with
that wide a difference in mixtures between cylinders.
On 8/22/2010 7:40 AM, Alan Mekler wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Alan Mekler"<amekler@metrocast.net>
>
> Kelly,
> I just looked at my injectors cylinder 3 and 4 have the leanest
> injectors(GAMI A) while cylinder 5 has the richest injector (Gami J plus)
> Alan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 8:13 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen<kellym@aviating.com>
>
> Perhaps you are working on the wrong end of the problem. #3&4 are
> peaking last, so must be too rich. The rest of the cylinders are peaking
> within 0.4gph of #5. You also will need to gather measurements every 0.2
> gph to better detect the peaks once you get those two cylinders closer
> to the rest.
>
> On 8/21/2010 3:59 PM, Alan Mekler wrote:
>> Patrick,
>>
>> Before switching to the GAMIs my cylinder #5 peaked at 2.5 gallons l
>> than my richest cylinder #3. After changing to GAMIs (my 3^rd set) I'm
>> down to a 1 gallon spread. GAMI has given me the richest injector they
>> make for cylinder # 5 but it still peaks early.
>>
>> Here is my latest flight data flying at 7000 MSL 22 inches/ 2400 rpm.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>> 13 12.5 12.1 11.7 11.3 11.0 10.5 10.3 Fuel flow gal/hr
>>
>> 1420 1438 1468 1474 1453 1438 1422 1403 cylinder #1
>>
>> 1381 1398 1428 1452 1447 1437 1412 1373 cylinder #2
>>
>> 1393 1409 1438 1456 1473 1468 1448 1414 cylinder #3
>>
>> 1400 1417 1449 1468 1477 1470 1450 1414 cylinder #4
>>
>> 1434 1467 1469 1443 1415 1411 1400 1435 cylinder # 5
>>
>> 1410 1430 1463 1474 1458 1441 1420 1397 cylinder #6
>>
>> other method
>>
>> cylinder #1 1472 peak @ 11.5
>>
>> cylinder #2 1451 peak@ 11.2
>>
>> cylinder #3 1472 peak @ 11.1
>>
>> cylinder#4 1477 peak @ 11.2
>>
>> cylinder #5 1473 peak @ 12.1
>>
>> cylinder #6 1474 peak @ 11.5
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick
>> Thyssen
>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 21, 2010 5:22 PM
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
>>
>> ? Have you done the coke bottle check? Has anyone messed with the
>> lines from the spider to injectors? Are we sure the lines are the
>> right ones? The other thing have you had any problems with your EGT
>> system. Could your EGT probes be bad?
>> Peaking or not peaking where they should?
>> Just a few thoughts
>> Patrick Thyssen
>>
>> --- On *Sat, 8/21/10, Alan Mekler /<amekler@metrocast.net>/* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Alan Mekler<amekler@metrocast.net>
>> Subject: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Date: Saturday, August 21, 2010, 11:04 AM
>>
>> I have been trying the GAMI injectors( on the 4^th set now) but found
>> the fuel flow on the cylinders varies widely. My cylinder #5 has the
>> richest injector and it still peaks a gallon or more before the other
>> cylinders Before gamis it was 2.5 gallons.. Has any one had this
>> problem? Any solutions?
>>
>> GAMI does not why the fuel is so unbalanced in this engine. I have 95
>> hours on the engine and all compressions are good. No intake leaks.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>> N668G
>>
>>
>>
>> * *
>> * *
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>> **
>> **
>> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>> **
>> **
>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>> * *
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>atronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.co=======================
http://www.matronics.com/cont===============
Navigator to
much much
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
Web
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
===========
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Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors |
It is actually an AD on the fuel injection servos to check the
security of the plug on the side. Some have been found loose and hanging
by the safety wire.
AD 2008-08-14
SUMMARY: This document publishes in the Federal Register an amendment
adopting emergency
airworthiness directive (AD) 2008-06-51 that was sent previously to all
known U.S. owners and
operators of Lycoming Engines IO, (L)IO, TIO, (L)TIO, AEIO, AIO, IGO,
IVO, and HIO series
reciprocating engines, TCM TSIO-360-RB reciprocating engines, and
Superior Air Parts, Inc. IO-360
series reciprocating engines with certain Precision Airmotive LLC RSA-5
and RSA-10 series fuel
injection servos. This AD results from eighteen reports of fuel
injection servo plugs, part number
(P/N) 383493, that had loosened or completely backed out of the threaded
plug hole on the regulator
cover of the fuel injection servo. These servo plugs were installed with
servo plug gasket, P/N
365533, under the plug hex-head. We are issuing this AD to prevent a
lean running engine, which
could result in a substantial loss of engine power and subsequent loss
of control of the airplane
(f) Inspect the fuel injection servo plug, P/N 383493, for looseness, by
attempting to turn it by
hand, while being careful not to damage the safety wire or seal. If the
plug moves, it is loose.
(g) If the plug is not loose, go to paragraph (i) of this AD.
(h) If the plug is loose, do the following:
(1) Carefully cut and remove the safety wire that spans between the
servo plug and regulator
cover only.
(2) Remove the servo plug while ensuring that the gasket, P/N 365533,
that is behind the plug, is
not lost. The gasket may be slightly stuck to the regulator cover.
(3) Examine the threads on the servo plug and regulator cover for
damage. Threads should be
smooth and consistent, with no burrs or chips. The servo plug outer
diameter threads should also
measure within 0.7419-0.7500-inch.
(4) If the threads on either the servo plug or the regulator cover are
damaged, or do not measure
within the limits in paragraph (h)(3) of this AD, the servo is not
eligible for any installation and must
be replaced before further flight.
(5) Inspect the gasket, P/N 365533, for tears and other damage. We are
allowing the re-use of
undamaged gaskets. Replace damaged gaskets with a new gasket, P/N 365533.
(6) When reassembling, do not install any servo plug or regulator cover
that is not eligible for
installation. Install the gasket onto the servo plug and reassemble the
servo plug to the regulator
cover.
(7) Torque the servo plug to a new, higher torque of 90-100 in-lbs, to
help maintain the proper
clamp-up force against the plug and cover.
(8) Safety wire the servo plug with 0.025-inch diameter wire to the
regulator cover. Information
on properly safety wiring the plug can be found in Precision Airmotive
LLC Mandatory Service
Bulletin No. PRS-107, Revision 1, dated March 6, 2008.
(9) Inspect all other safety wire on the servo. Replace any that are
damaged.
On 8/22/2010 4:32 PM, Alan Mekler wrote:
>
> Patrick,
>
> Which SB are you referring to?
>
> Alan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick
> Thyssen
> *Sent:* Sunday, August 22, 2010 7:24 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
>
> That's why you need to know the probes are OK. They may be giving you
> a wrong signal. The coke bottle test is, undo your injector lines from
> the injectors, put the same size glass bottle under them and turn on
> your boost pump, fill bottle about 3/4 and see if the same amount of
> fuel is in all the glass bottles. Normally you do it with your
> injectors on but since you have different injectors it won't work that
> way.
> Just my way of checking.
> Patrick Thyssen
> Have you done the SB on the throttle body. The gasket and G on plug.
> I just checked another RV10 and he had not done it and it was loose.
>
>
> --- On *Sun, 8/22/10, Alan Mekler /<amekler@metrocast.net>/* wrote:
>
>
> From: Alan Mekler <amekler@metrocast.net>
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Date: Sunday, August 22, 2010, 6:00 PM
>
> Patrick,
>
> Give me the details of the coke bottle test. I'm going to try
> switching probes.
>
> The odd thing is the engine runs smooth.
>
> Alan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick
> Thyssen
> *Sent:* Sunday, August 22, 2010 5:53 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
>
> HAVE YOU DONE THE COKE BOTTLE TEST WITHOUT THE INJECTORS. SINCE EACH
> INJECTOR WILL BE DIFFERENT NOW. HAVE YOU LOOKED AT YOUR PROBES? Maybe
> swap a few probes and see what you get.
> Patrick Thyssen
>
> --- On *Sun, 8/22/10, Kelly McMullen /<kellym@aviating.com>/* wrote:
>
>
> From: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Date: Sunday, August 22, 2010, 3:46 PM
>
>
>
> About the only thing left is your dry tappet clearances. Your engine
> builder should be able to give you what those clearances are. Ideally
> the clearances are in the middle of the allowable range and similar for
> each
> cylinder.................................................................................
>
> Alternatively you could measure the amount of movement of each rocker
> arm. Intakes should be the same and exhausts the same. Has anyone looked
> inside your sump/intake manifold to ensure there is no obstruction, nor
> anything loose in there? Something is wrong if your #3&4 peak last with
> the leanest nozzles and #5 peaks first with the richest nozzle.
> Still not understanding how the engine could be running smoothly with
> that wide a difference in mixtures between cylinders.
>
> On 8/22/2010 7:40 AM, Alan Mekler wrote:
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Alan Mekler"<amekler@metrocast.net>
> >
> > Kelly,
> > I just looked at my injectors cylinder 3 and 4 have the leanest
> > injectors(GAMI A) while cylinder 5 has the richest injector (Gami J plus)
> > Alan
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
> > Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 8:13 PM
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
> >
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen<kellym@aviating.com>
> >
> > Perhaps you are working on the wrong end of the problem. #3&4 are
> > peaking last, so must be too rich. The rest of the cylinders are peaking
> > within 0.4gph of #5. You also will need to gather measurements every 0.2
> > gph to better detect the peaks once you get those two cylinders closer
> > to the rest.
> >
> > On 8/21/2010 3:59 PM, Alan Mekler wrote:
> >> Patrick,
> >>
> >> Before switching to the GAMIs my cylinder #5 peaked at 2.5 gallons l
> >> than my richest cylinder #3. After changing to GAMIs (my 3^rd set) I'm
> >> down to a 1 gallon spread. GAMI has given me the richest injector they
> >> make for cylinder # 5 but it still peaks early.
> >>
> >> Here is my latest flight data flying at 7000 MSL 22 inches/ 2400 rpm.
> >>
> >> Alan
> >>
> >> 13 12.5 12.1 11.7 11.3 11.0 10.5 10.3 Fuel flow gal/hr
> >>
> >> 1420 1438 1468 1474 1453 1438 1422 1403 cylinder #1
> >>
> >> 1381 1398 1428 1452 1447 1437 1412 1373 cylinder #2
> >>
> >> 1393 1409 1438 1456 1473 1468 1448 1414 cylinder #3
> >>
> >> 1400 1417 1449 1468 1477 1470 1450 1414 cylinder #4
> >>
> >> 1434 1467 1469 1443 1415 1411 1400 1435 cylinder # 5
> >>
> >> 1410 1430 1463 1474 1458 1441 1420 1397 cylinder #6
> >>
> >> other method
> >>
> >> cylinder #1 1472 peak @ 11.5
> >>
> >> cylinder #2 1451 peak@ 11.2
> >>
> >> cylinder #3 1472 peak @ 11.1
> >>
> >> cylinder#4 1477 peak @ 11.2
> >>
> >> cylinder #5 1473 peak @ 12.1
> >>
> >> cylinder #6 1474 peak @ 11.5
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick
> >> Thyssen
> >> *Sent:* Saturday, August 21, 2010 5:22 PM
> >> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> >> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
> >>
> >> ? Have you done the coke bottle check? Has anyone messed with the
> >> lines from the spider to injectors? Are we sure the lines are the
> >> right ones? The other thing have you had any problems with your EGT
> >> system. Could your EGT probes be bad?
> >> Peaking or not peaking where they should?
> >> Just a few thoughts
> >> Patrick Thyssen
> >>
> >> --- On *Sat, 8/21/10, Alan Mekler /<amekler@metrocast.net>/* wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Alan Mekler<amekler@metrocast.net>
> >> Subject: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
> >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> >> Date: Saturday, August 21, 2010, 11:04 AM
> >>
> >> I have been trying the GAMI injectors( on the 4^th set now) but found
> >> the fuel flow on the cylinders varies widely. My cylinder #5 has the
> >> richest injector and it still peaks a gallon or more before the other
> >> cylinders Before gamis it was 2.5 gallons.. Has any one had this
> >> problem? Any solutions?
> >>
> >> GAMI does not why the fuel is so unbalanced in this engine. I have 95
> >> hours on the engine and all compressions are good. No intake leaks.
> >>
> >> Alan
> >>
> >> N668G
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> * *
> >> * *
> >> **
> >> **
> >> **
> >> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
> >> **
> >> **
> >> *http://forums.matronics.com*
> >> **
> >> **
> >> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> >> * *
> >> *
> >>
> >>
> >> *
> >
> >atronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.co========================
> http://www.matronics.com/cont===============
>
>
> *
>
> Navigator to
>
> much much
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
> Web
>
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ==========
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Message 24
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| Subject: | TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors |
Thanks. I'll look into it.
Alan
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
It is actually an AD on the fuel injection servos to check the security of
the plug on the side. Some have been found loose and hanging by the safety
wire.
AD 2008-08-14
SUMMARY: This document publishes in the Federal Register an amendment
adopting emergency
airworthiness directive (AD) 2008-06-51 that was sent previously to all
known U.S. owners and
operators of Lycoming Engines IO, (L)IO, TIO, (L)TIO, AEIO, AIO, IGO, IVO,
and HIO series
reciprocating engines, TCM TSIO-360-RB reciprocating engines, and Superior
Air Parts, Inc. IO-360
series reciprocating engines with certain Precision Airmotive LLC RSA-5 and
RSA-10 series fuel
injection servos. This AD results from eighteen reports of fuel injection
servo plugs, part number
(P/N) 383493, that had loosened or completely backed out of the threaded
plug hole on the regulator
cover of the fuel injection servo. These servo plugs were installed with
servo plug gasket, P/N
365533, under the plug hex-head. We are issuing this AD to prevent a lean
running engine, which
could result in a substantial loss of engine power and subsequent loss of
control of the airplane
(f) Inspect the fuel injection servo plug, P/N 383493, for looseness, by
attempting to turn it by
hand, while being careful not to damage the safety wire or seal. If the plug
moves, it is loose.
(g) If the plug is not loose, go to paragraph (i) of this AD.
(h) If the plug is loose, do the following:
(1) Carefully cut and remove the safety wire that spans between the servo
plug and regulator
cover only.
(2) Remove the servo plug while ensuring that the gasket, P/N 365533, that
is behind the plug, is
not lost. The gasket may be slightly stuck to the regulator cover.
(3) Examine the threads on the servo plug and regulator cover for damage.
Threads should be
smooth and consistent, with no burrs or chips. The servo plug outer diameter
threads should also
measure within 0.7419-0.7500-inch.
(4) If the threads on either the servo plug or the regulator cover are
damaged, or do not measure
within the limits in paragraph (h)(3) of this AD, the servo is not eligible
for any installation and must
be replaced before further flight.
(5) Inspect the gasket, P/N 365533, for tears and other damage. We are
allowing the re-use of
undamaged gaskets. Replace damaged gaskets with a new gasket, P/N 365533.
(6) When reassembling, do not install any servo plug or regulator cover that
is not eligible for
installation. Install the gasket onto the servo plug and reassemble the
servo plug to the regulator
cover.
(7) Torque the servo plug to a new, higher torque of 90-100 in-lbs, to help
maintain the proper
clamp-up force against the plug and cover.
(8) Safety wire the servo plug with 0.025-inch diameter wire to the
regulator cover. Information
on properly safety wiring the plug can be found in Precision Airmotive LLC
Mandatory Service
Bulletin No. PRS-107, Revision 1, dated March 6, 2008.
(9) Inspect all other safety wire on the servo. Replace any that are
damaged.
On 8/22/2010 4:32 PM, Alan Mekler wrote:
Patrick,
Which SB are you referring to?
Alan
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Thyssen
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 7:24 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
That's why you need to know the probes are OK. They may be giving you a
wrong signal. The coke bottle test is, undo your injector lines from the
injectors, put the same size glass bottle under them and turn on your boost
pump, fill bottle about 3/4 and see if the same amount of fuel is in all the
glass bottles. Normally you do it with your injectors on but since you have
different injectors it won't work that way.
Just my way of checking.
Patrick Thyssen
Have you done the SB on the throttle body. The gasket and G on plug. I just
checked another RV10 and he had not done it and it was loose.
--- On Sun, 8/22/10, Alan Mekler <mailto:amekler@metrocast.net>
<amekler@metrocast.net> wrote:
From: Alan Mekler <mailto:amekler@metrocast.net> <amekler@metrocast.net>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
Patrick,
Give me the details of the coke bottle test. I'm going to try switching
probes.
The odd thing is the engine runs smooth.
Alan
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Thyssen
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 5:53 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
HAVE YOU DONE THE COKE BOTTLE TEST WITHOUT THE INJECTORS. SINCE EACH
INJECTOR WILL BE DIFFERENT NOW. HAVE YOU LOOKED AT YOUR PROBES? Maybe swap
a few probes and see what you get.
Patrick Thyssen
--- On Sun, 8/22/10, Kelly McMullen <mailto:kellym@aviating.com>
<kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
From: Kelly McMullen <mailto:kellym@aviating.com> <kellym@aviating.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
<mailto:kellym@aviating.com> <kellym@aviating.com>
About the only thing left is your dry tappet clearances. Your engine
builder should be able to give you what those clearances are. Ideally
the clearances are in the middle of the allowable range and similar for
each
cylinder....................................................................
.............
Alternatively you could measure the amount of movement of each rocker
arm. Intakes should be the same and exhausts the same. Has anyone looked
inside your sump/intake manifold to ensure there is no obstruction, nor
anything loose in there? Something is wrong if your #3&4 peak last with
the leanest nozzles and #5 peaks first with the richest nozzle.
Still not understanding how the engine could be running smoothly with
that wide a difference in mixtures between cylinders.
On 8/22/2010 7:40 AM, Alan Mekler wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Alan Mekler"
<mailto:amekler@metrocast.net> <amekler@metrocast.net>
>
> Kelly,
> I just looked at my injectors cylinder 3 and 4 have the leanest
> injectors(GAMI A) while cylinder 5 has the richest injector (Gami J plus)
> Alan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 8:13 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen
<mailto:kellym@aviating.com> <kellym@aviating.com>
>
> Perhaps you are working on the wrong end of the problem. #3&4 are
> peaking last, so must be too rich. The rest of the cylinders are peaking
> within 0.4gph of #5. You also will need to gather measurements every 0.2
> gph to better detect the peaks once you get those two cylinders closer
> to the rest.
>
> On 8/21/2010 3:59 PM, Alan Mekler wrote:
>> Patrick,
>>
>> Before switching to the GAMIs my cylinder #5 peaked at 2.5 gallons l
>> than my richest cylinder #3. After changing to GAMIs (my 3^rd set) I'm
>> down to a 1 gallon spread. GAMI has given me the richest injector they
>> make for cylinder # 5 but it still peaks early.
>>
>> Here is my latest flight data flying at 7000 MSL 22 inches/ 2400 rpm.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>> 13 12.5 12.1 11.7 11.3 11.0 10.5 10.3 Fuel flow gal/hr
>>
>> 1420 1438 1468 1474 1453 1438 1422 1403 cylinder #1
>>
>> 1381 1398 1428 1452 1447 1437 1412 1373 cylinder #2
>>
>> 1393 1409 1438 1456 1473 1468 1448 1414 cylinder #3
>>
>> 1400 1417 1449 1468 1477 1470 1450 1414 cylinder #4
>>
>> 1434 1467 1469 1443 1415 1411 1400 1435 cylinder # 5
>>
>> 1410 1430 1463 1474 1458 1441 1420 1397 cylinder #6
>>
>> other method
>>
>> cylinder #1 1472 peak @ 11.5
>>
>> cylinder #2 1451 peak@ 11.2
>>
>> cylinder #3 1472 peak @ 11.1
>>
>> cylinder#4 1477 peak @ 11.2
>>
>> cylinder #5 1473 peak @ 12.1
>>
>> cylinder #6 1474 peak @ 11.5
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick
>> Thyssen
>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 21, 2010 5:22 PM
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
>>
>> ? Have you done the coke bottle check? Has anyone messed with the
>> lines from the spider to injectors? Are we sure the lines are the
>> right ones? The other thing have you had any problems with your EGT
>> system. Could your EGT probes be bad?
>> Peaking or not peaking where they should?
>> Just a few thoughts
>> Patrick Thyssen
>>
>> --- On *Sat, 8/21/10, Alan Mekler / <mailto:amekler@metrocast.net>
<amekler@metrocast.net>/* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Alan Mekler <mailto:amekler@metrocast.net> <amekler@metrocast.net>
>> Subject: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Date: Saturday, August 21, 2010, 11:04 AM
>>
>> I have been trying the GAMI injectors( on the 4^th set now) but found
>> the fuel flow on the cylinders varies widely. My cylinder #5 has the
>> richest injector and it still peaks a gallon or more before the other
>> cylinders Before gamis it was 2.5 gallons.. Has any one had this
>> problem? Any solutions?
>>
>> GAMI does not why the fuel is so unbalanced in this engine. I have 95
>> hours on the engine and all compressions are good. No intake leaks.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>> N668G
>>
>>
>>
>> * *
>> * *
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>> **
>> **
>> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>> **
>> **
>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>> * *
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>atronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.co=======================
http://www.matronics.com/cont===============
Navigator to
much much
href= <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navi
gator?RV10-List
Web
href= <http://forums.matronics.com>
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href= <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
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===========
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or=>
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or=>
<http://www.matronics=======%3cbr%3e%3cbr%3e%3c/font%3e%3c/b%3e%3cfont%20col
or=>
<http://www.matronics=======%3cbr%3e%3cbr%3e%3c/font%3e%3c/b%3e%3cfont%20col
or=>
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or=>
<http://www.matronics=======%3cbr%3e%3cbr%3e%3c/font%3e%3c/b%3e%3cfont%20col
or=> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
<http://www.matronics=======%3cbr%3e%3cbr%3e%3c/font%3e%3c/b%3e%3cfont%20col
or=>
<http://forums.matronics.com> http://forums.matronics.com
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http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 25
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
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| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
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|
| Subject: | Re: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors |
You need the SB so you can see how they want you to comply,esp. safety wiri
ng the plug.
Patrick Thyssen
--- On Sun, 8/22/10, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
=0A=0A =0A=0A =0A It is actually an AD on the fuel injection servos to
check the=0A security of the plug on the side. Some have been found loo
se and=0A hanging by the safety wire.
=0A AD 2008-08-14
=0A SUMMARY: This document publishes in the Federal Register an=0A am
endment adopting emergency
=0A airworthiness directive (AD) 2008-06-51 that was sent previously to
=0A all known U.S. owners and
=0A operators of Lycoming Engines IO, (L)IO, TIO, (L)TIO, AEIO, AIO,=0A
IGO, IVO, and HIO series
=0A reciprocating engines, TCM TSIO-360-RB reciprocating engines, and=0A
Superior Air Parts, Inc. IO-360
=0A series reciprocating engines with certain Precision Airmotive LLC=0A
RSA-5 and RSA-10 series fuel
=0A injection servos. This AD results from eighteen reports of fuel=0A
injection servo plugs, part number
=0A (P/N) 383493, that had loosened or completely backed out of the=0A
threaded plug hole on the regulator
=0A cover of the fuel injection servo. These servo plugs were installed
=0A with servo plug gasket, P/N
=0A 365533, under the plug hex-head. We are issuing this AD to prevent a
=0A lean running engine, which
=0A could result in a substantial loss of engine power and subsequent=0A
loss of control of the airplane
=0A (f) Inspect the fuel injection servo=0A plug, P/N 383493, for l
ooseness, by attempting to turn it by
=0A hand, while being careful not to damage the safety wire or seal.
=0A If the plug moves, it is loose.
=0A (g) If the plug is not loose, go to paragraph (i) of this AD.
=0A (h) If the plug is loose, do the following:
=0A (1) Carefully cut and remove the safety wire that spans between=0A
the servo plug and regulator
=0A cover only.
=0A (2) Remove the servo plug while ensuring that the gasket, P/N=0A
365533, that is behind the plug, is
=0A not lost. The gasket may be slightly stuck to the regulator cover.
=0A (3) Examine the threads on the servo plug and regulator cover for
=0A damage. Threads should be
=0A smooth and consistent, with no burrs or chips. The servo plug=0A
outer diameter threads should also
=0A measure within 0.7419-0.7500-inch.
=0A (4) If the threads on either the servo plug or the regulator cover
=0A are damaged, or do not measure
=0A within the limits in paragraph (h)(3) of this AD, the servo is not
=0A eligible for any installation and must
=0A be replaced before further flight.
=0A (5) Inspect the gasket, P/N 365533, for tears and other damage. We
=0A are allowing the re-use of
=0A undamaged gaskets. Replace damaged gaskets with a new gasket, P/N
=0A 365533.
=0A (6) When reassembling, do not install any servo plug or regulator
=0A cover that is not eligible for
=0A installation. Install the gasket onto the servo plug and=0A r
eassemble the servo plug to the regulator
=0A cover.
=0A (7) Torque the servo plug to a new, higher torque of 90-100=0A
in-lbs, to help maintain the proper
=0A clamp-up force against the plug and cover.
=0A (8) Safety wire the servo plug with 0.025-inch diameter wire to=0A
the regulator cover. Information
=0A on properly safety wiring the plug can be found in Precision=0A
Airmotive LLC Mandatory Service
=0A Bulletin No. PRS-107, Revision 1, dated March 6, 2008.
=0A (9) Inspect all other safety wire on the servo. Replace any that
=0A are damaged.
=0A =0A
=0A On 8/22/2010 4:32 PM, Alan Mekler wrote:=0A =0A =0A =0A
=0A =0A=0A=0A =0A Patrick, =0A Which=0A
SB are you referring to? =0A Alan =0A =C2- =0A
=C2- =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A
From:=0A owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com=0A
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On=0A
Behalf Of Patrick Thyssen
=0A Sent:=0A Sunday, August 22, 2010 7:24=0A
PM
=0A To:=0A rv10-list@matronics.com
=0A Subject:=0A RE: RV10-List: TMXIO-540=0A
and GAMI injectors =0A =0A =C2- =0A
=0A =0A =0A =0A That's why
you=0A need to know the probes are OK. They may be giv
ing=0A you a wrong signal. The coke bottle test is, un
do=0A your injector lines from the injectors, put the
=0A same size glass bottle under them and turn on your
=0A boost pump, fill bottle about 3/4 and see if the
=0A same amount of fuel is in all the glass bottles.
=0A Normally you do it with your injectors on but=0A
since you have different injectors it won't work=0A
that way.
=0A Just my way of checking.
=0A Patrick Thyssen
=0A Have you done the SB on the throttle=C2- body. T
he=0A gasket and G on plug. I just checked another RV1
0=0A and he had not done it and it was loose.
=0A
=0A
=0A --- On Sun,=0A 8/22/10, A
lan Mekler <amekler@metrocast.net>=0A wrote: =0A
=0A From: Alan Mekler <amekler@metrocast.net>
=0A Subject: RE: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI=0A
injectors
=0A To: rv10-list@matronics.com
=0A Date: Sunday, August 22, 2010, 6:00 PM =0A
=0A =0A Patrick, =0A
=C2-Give me the details of the coke=0A
bottle test. I=99m going to try switching=0A
probes. =0A The odd thing is the engine runs=0A
smooth. =0A Alan =0A
=C2- =0A =0A =0A
=0A From:=0A
owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com=0A [mailto:
owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]=0A On=0A
Behalf Of Patrick Thyssen
=0A Sent:=0A Sunday,
August 22, 2010 5:53 PM
=0A To:=0A rv10-list@
matronics.com
=0A Subject:=0A Re: R
V10-List: TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors =0A =0A
=C2- =0A =0A =0A
=0A =0A
HAVE YOU DONE=0A THE COKE BOTTLE TEST WI
THOUT=C2- THE=0A INJECTORS. SINCE EACH I
NJECTOR WILL BE=0A DIFFERENT NOW.=C2- HA
VE YOU LOOKED AT=0A YOUR PROBES? Maybe swa
p a few probes=0A and see what you get.
=0A Patrick Thyssen
=0A
=0A --- On Sun, 8/22/10, Kelly=0A
McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>=0A
wrote: =0A
=0A From: Kelly McMullen=0A
<kellym@aviating.com>
=0A Subject: Re: RV10-List: TMXIO-540 and
=0A GAMI injectors
=0A To: rv10-list@matronics.com
=0A Date: Sunday, August 22, 2010, 3:46 PM
=0A =0A -->=0A
RV10-List message posted by: Kelly=0A
McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
=0A
=0A
=0A About the only thing left is your=0A
dry tappet clearances. Your engine
=0A builder should be able to give you
=0A what those clearances are. Ideally
=0A the clearances are in the middle of
=0A the allowable range and similar for
=0A
=0A each
=0A cylinder............................
.....................................................=0A=0A
=0A Alternatively you could measure the
=0A amount of movement of each rocker
=0A arm. Intakes should be the same and
=0A exhausts the same. Has anyone looked
=0A
=0A inside your sump/intake manifold to
=0A ensure there is no obstruction, nor
=0A
=0A anything loose in there? Something
=0A is wrong if your #3&4 peak last=0A
with
=0A the leanest nozzles and #5 peaks=0A
first with the richest nozzle.
=0A Still not understanding how the=0A
engine could be running smoothly=0A
with
=0A that wide a difference in mixtures
=0A between cylinders.
=0A
=0A On 8/22/2010 7:40 AM, Alan Mekler=0A
wrote:
=0A > -->=C2- RV10-List message=0A
posted by: "Alan=0A
Mekler"<amekler@metrocast.net>
=0A >
=0A > Kelly,
=0A > I just looked at my injectors=0A
cylinder 3 and 4 have the leanest
=0A > injectors(GAMI A) while=0A
cylinder 5 has the richest injector=0A
(Gami J plus)
=0A > Alan
=0A >
=0A > -----Original Message-----
=0A > From:=0A
owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
=0A >=0A
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]=0A
On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
=0A > Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010=0A
8:13 PM
=0A > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
=0A > Subject: Re: RV10-List:=0A
TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
=0A >
=0A > -->=C2- RV10-List message=0A
posted by: Kelly=0A
McMullen<kellym@aviating.com>
=0A >
=0A >=C2- =C2- Perhaps you are worki
ng on=0A the wrong end of the problem.
=0A #3&4 are
=0A > peaking last, so must be too=0A
rich. The rest of the cylinders are=0A
peaking
=0A > within 0.4gph of #5. You also=0A
will need to gather measurements=0A
every 0.2
=0A > gph to better detect the peaks=0A
once you get those two cylinders=0A
closer
=0A > to the rest.
=0A >
=0A > On 8/21/2010 3:59 PM, Alan=0A
Mekler wrote:
=0A >> Patrick,
=0A >>
=0A >> Before switching to the=0A
GAMIs my cylinder #5 peaked at 2.5=0A
gallons l
=0A >> than my richest cylinder=0A
#3. After changing to GAMIs (my 3^rd=0A
set) I'm
=0A >> down to a 1 gallon spread.=0A
GAMI has given me the richest=0A
injector they
=0A >> make for cylinder # 5 but=0A
it still peaks early.
=0A >>
=0A >> Here is my latest flight=0A
data flying at 7000 MSL 22 inches/=0A
2400 rpm.
=0A >>
=0A >> Alan
=0A >>
=0A >> 13 12.5 12.1 11.7 11.3 11.0=0A
10.5 10.3 Fuel flow gal/hr
=0A >>
=0A >> 1420 1438 1468 1474 1453=0A
1438 1422 1403 cylinder #1
=0A >>
=0A >> 1381 1398 1428 1452 1447=0A
1437 1412 1373 cylinder #2
=0A >>
=0A >> 1393 1409 1438 1456 1473=0A
1468 1448 1414 cylinder #3
=0A >>
=0A >> 1400 1417 1449 1468 1477=0A
1470 1450 1414 cylinder #4
=0A >>
=0A >> 1434 1467 1469 1443 1415=0A
1411 1400 1435 cylinder # 5
=0A >>
=0A >> 1410 1430 1463 1474 1458=0A
1441 1420 1397 cylinder #6
=0A >>
=0A >> other method
=0A >>
=0A >> cylinder #1 1472 peak @=0A
11.5
=0A >>
=0A >> cylinder #2 1451 peak@ 11.2
=0A >>
=0A >> cylinder #3 1472 peak @=0A
11.1
=0A >>
=0A >> cylinder#4 1477 peak @ 11.2
=0A >>
=0A >> cylinder #5 1473 peak @=0A
12.1
=0A >>
=0A >> cylinder #6 1474 peak @=0A
11.5
=0A >>
=0A >>=0A
----------------------------------------------------------------------
--
=0A >>
=0A >> *From:*=0A
owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
=0A >>=0A
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]=0A
*On Behalf Of *Patrick
=0A >> Thyssen
=0A >> *Sent:* Saturday, August=0A
21, 2010 5:22 PM
=0A >> *To:*=0A
rv10-list@matronics.com
=0A >> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List:=0A
TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
=0A >>
=0A >> ? Have you done the coke=0A
bottle check? Has anyone messed with=0A
the
=0A >> lines from the spider to=0A
injectors? Are we sure the lines are=0A
the
=0A >> right ones? The other thing=0A
have you had any problems with your=0A
EGT
=0A >> system. Could your EGT=0A
probes be bad?
=0A >> Peaking or not peaking=0A
where they should?
=0A >> Just a few thoughts
=0A >> Patrick Thyssen
=0A >>
=0A >> --- On *Sat, 8/21/10, Alan=0A
Mekler=0A
/<amekler@metrocast.net>/*=0A wrote:
=0A >>
=0A >>
=0A >> From: Alan=0A
Mekler<amekler@metrocast.net>
=0A >> Subject: RV10-List:=0A
TMXIO-540 and GAMI injectors
=0A >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
=0A >> Date: Saturday, August 21,=0A
2010, 11:04 AM
=0A >>
=0A >> I have been trying the GAMI=0A
injectors( on the 4^th set now) but=0A
found
=0A >> the fuel flow on the=0A
cylinders varies widely. My cylinder=0A
#5 has the
=0A >> richest injector and it=0A
still peaks a gallon or more before=0A
the other
=0A >> cylinders Before gamis it=0A
was 2.5 gallons.. Has any one had=0A
this
=0A >> problem? Any solutions?
=0A >>
=0A >> GAMI does not why the fuel=0A
is so unbalanced in this engine. I=0A
have 95
=0A >> hours on the engine and all=0A
compressions are good. No intake=0A
leaks.
=0A >>
=0A >> Alan
=0A >>
=0A >> N668G
=0A >>
=0A >>
=0A >>
=0A >> *=C2- *
=0A >> *=C2- *
=0A >> **
=0A >> **
=0A >> **
=0A >> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigat
or?RV10-List*
=0A >> **
=0A >> **
=0A >> *http://forums.matronics.com*
=0A >> **
=0A >> **
=0A >> *http://www.matronics.com/contrib
ution*
=0A >> *=C2- *
=0A >> *
=0A >>
=0A >>
=0A >> *
=0A >
=0A >atronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"
=0A target="_blank">http://www.matroni
cs.co=======================
==0A=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/cont============
===
=0A
=0A
=0A =0A =0A
=0A =0A
=0A =0A
=C2- Navigator to
much much
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?RV10-List
Web
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
=C2- =========== =C2-
=C2- =0A =0A =C2- =0A
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List<=C2- --> =0A
=C2- =0A =0A =0A
=0A =0A =0A =0A
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution =C2- =0A =0A
=0A =0A =0A =0A =C2- =0A
=0A
=0A =0A =0A
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Miniumum fuel comfort zone |
You know, I somewhat feel the same regarding fuel, that
I like to burn a lot off one tank and then I know if my
other tank is plenty full I'm doing great, but...I don't
know that I'd take it quite as far as you do with it.
I agree with Jim, I think 5 gallons remaining is a good
bottom limit for most of the time. Here's why...
First, if you run a tank to the very end, you're going
to have a little more chance to get all the gunk
and water that may be at that low spot in the tank.
Granted that since our inlet is obviously REALLY close
to the low spot, it probably doesn't matter much, but
just in concept, I don't know that bottom feeding
on the tank is such a great normal routine.
Second, at least on my EFIS I have each tank set to
alarm below a certain point. If I flew one to
empty as a routine, I'd have to silence an alarm,
and I don't want to get in the habit of routinely
silencing something like that if I can avoid it.
Third, like Jim mentioned, it's nice to have
a few gallons in that tank that you just don't
use, because those can be used to fall back on
later. What if suddenly your 2nd and final
tank swallows a gob of water that won't run through
and your engine dies? If you have even a couple gallons
available, you can make it quite a few more miles
to get to an airport. I'd always leave 5 gallons
just so you have an "out".
And last, I did a write up once, but on one IFR flight
in IMC, I noticed my tank was using fuel faster than
normal. Stupid me, I switched to the OTHER tank,
well...it wasn't stupid exactly, but that helped me
identify that indeed with the tank shut off I was
draining fuel still. But what I SHOULD have done is
after verifying, switched back to that tank and
used it up...rather than waste all that fuel. I had
sumped the tanks in the rain and with all the rain
coming down, didn't notice the sump was still dripping
and wasn't sealed well. If I would have been using
my opposite tank, and I used it to empty, I could
have put myself into a situation where I had one
empty tank and a problem (leak) with the other.
Anyway, not really wanting to nit pick on a procedure,
since everyone can have their own, but I thought I'd
point out a couple of things on it as to why it's probably
best to keep a few gallons in there.
I do know what you mean though. I know people that
religiously switch tanks every 30 minutes. That's
fine, no problem there, but I myself would rather
maybe burn the top 10 gallons off one tank,
then suck 23 gallons out of the 2nd tank,
and then burn my last 13 gallons off the
original tank. Less switching, and like you,
I like to burn a pile of my fuel off and then have
a good amount in my final tank so I can easily
figure that I'll make my home stretch without
needing to swap back to that lower tank again.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
On 8/22/2010 8:33 AM, Jesse Saint wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Jesse
> Saint<jesse@saintaviation.com>
>
> I think each person probably has their personal limit on this.
> Personally, I would much rather have 14 gallons in one tank than 7
> gallons in each, maybe unless conditions are perfectly smooth. Even
> when flying a 172, on a long trip, I'll burn out of both tanks to
> verify everything is working in the system, but will burn one tank
> down until I start losing fuel pressure and then switch so I know all
> of my fuel is available from the current tank (and it also helps to
> verify how much fuel I have - see if my calculations are correct,
> which isn't as much of an issue in the -10). I do this at altitude
> so, if there's some kind of hickup, there would be plenty of time to
> get it worked out. I don't think I've ever taken the -10 to the
> point of losing fuel pressure, but I've taken it to the point where
> the float reads zero and the flow meter agrees.
>
> That's just the way I do it, and I don't like to get on the ground
> with less than 10 gallons, but all of that on one side if I do get
> that low.
>
> Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com C:
> 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694
>
> On Aug 22, 2010, at 2:37 AM, AirMike wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "AirMike"<Mikeabel@Pacbell.net>
>>
>> In re-analyzing my numbers from my trip to OSH - felt that it is
>> best to be on the ground when you have less than 7 gallons in each
>> tank. I have very accurate readings from my tank floats and fuel
>> scan is right on the money. Since a big percentage of accidents are
>> from just running out of gas, I'd like any input on minimum usable
>> fuel in the std tanks so that we can all keep a comfortable safety
>> zone.
>
>> I also need this info as I fit out my 90 gallon internal tank for
>> the round-the-poles flight - ok just kidding.......
>>
>> -------- OSH '10 or Bust Q/B - finally done
>>
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309710#309710
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Miniumum fuel comfort zone |
Tim, I agree with all but the concept of gunk at the bottom of the
tank only getting pulled into the system as the tank goes dry. The
maximum flow out of the tank is at full power when you are using that
tank and are nose high. In other words the max flow to dislodge anything
at the bottom is on departure, not in cruise or descent. If something
sticks enough to still be there as you empty that tank, it isn't going
anywhere with the last gallon of fuel. I think you realize this, but it
is a hard image to dismiss.
Kelly
On 8/22/2010 7:28 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> You know, I somewhat feel the same regarding fuel,
> First, if you run a tank to the very end, you're going
> to have a little more chance to get all the gunk
> and water that may be at that low spot in the tank.
> Granted that since our inlet is obviously REALLY close
> to the low spot, it probably doesn't matter much, but
> just in concept, I don't know that bottom feeding
> on the tank is such a great normal routine.
>
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: Miniumum fuel comfort zone |
I think the issue is more of a minimum fuel & where to have it. In normal practice,
I burn down 10-15 on one side, switch & burn down to 10 on the other, then
switch. Only on a long trip where I may be down to reserve do I do as I suggested.
I personally think making minimum fuel of 7 per side too much. That's
46 gal useable. If it's a trip that would need 92 gallons, I would split it
in half. If it's a 52-gallon flight, I would not split it up. Then I would
burn down one tank dry or almost so, then fly my last stretch only on the other.
I would much rather be flying with 8 gallons in one tank than 4 gallons in
each. I think that's the issue.
I agree that fuel alarms are good and important, but they are there to remind you
in case you forget. On a long flight (like my nonstop from FL to WI for OSH),
my main task is to let my autopilot fly the plane while I monitor my fuel,
using the fuel computer & winds aloft info along my route to estimate fuel at
destination. I then decide how close to minimum fuel I will be flying & burn
accordingly. On a flight like that, the last thing I need is a low fuel alarm.
Also, I have noticed with several systems that if I set an alarm at 5 gallons,
I need to keep the tank well above that or well below it to not have the
alarm constantly going off as the float bounces when the fuel sloshes. Once down
to 2-3 gallons, a 5-gal alarm will seldom go off after the first time. Once
acknowledged & noted on the kneeboard, it's known & that tank not used again.
Another thing I do is switch to the full tank one or twice for a minute or two
before I go "dry" on one side to verify fuel supply is good & no flow restrictions.
As you said, everybody will have their own way. This is the way that makes me
feel the most comfortable.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
www.mavericklsa.com
C: 352-427-0285
O: 352-465-4545
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 22, 2010, at 10:28 PM, Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com> wrote:
>
> You know, I somewhat feel the same regarding fuel, that
> I like to burn a lot off one tank and then I know if my
> other tank is plenty full I'm doing great, but...I don't
> know that I'd take it quite as far as you do with it.
> I agree with Jim, I think 5 gallons remaining is a good
> bottom limit for most of the time. Here's why...
>
> First, if you run a tank to the very end, you're going
> to have a little more chance to get all the gunk
> and water that may be at that low spot in the tank.
> Granted that since our inlet is obviously REALLY close
> to the low spot, it probably doesn't matter much, but
> just in concept, I don't know that bottom feeding
> on the tank is such a great normal routine.
>
> Second, at least on my EFIS I have each tank set to
> alarm below a certain point. If I flew one to
> empty as a routine, I'd have to silence an alarm,
> and I don't want to get in the habit of routinely
> silencing something like that if I can avoid it.
>
> Third, like Jim mentioned, it's nice to have
> a few gallons in that tank that you just don't
> use, because those can be used to fall back on
> later. What if suddenly your 2nd and final
> tank swallows a gob of water that won't run through
> and your engine dies? If you have even a couple gallons
> available, you can make it quite a few more miles
> to get to an airport. I'd always leave 5 gallons
> just so you have an "out".
>
> And last, I did a write up once, but on one IFR flight
> in IMC, I noticed my tank was using fuel faster than
> normal. Stupid me, I switched to the OTHER tank,
> well...it wasn't stupid exactly, but that helped me
> identify that indeed with the tank shut off I was
> draining fuel still. But what I SHOULD have done is
> after verifying, switched back to that tank and
> used it up...rather than waste all that fuel. I had
> sumped the tanks in the rain and with all the rain
> coming down, didn't notice the sump was still dripping
> and wasn't sealed well. If I would have been using
> my opposite tank, and I used it to empty, I could
> have put myself into a situation where I had one
> empty tank and a problem (leak) with the other.
>
> Anyway, not really wanting to nit pick on a procedure,
> since everyone can have their own, but I thought I'd
> point out a couple of things on it as to why it's probably
> best to keep a few gallons in there.
>
> I do know what you mean though. I know people that
> religiously switch tanks every 30 minutes. That's
> fine, no problem there, but I myself would rather
> maybe burn the top 10 gallons off one tank,
> then suck 23 gallons out of the 2nd tank,
> and then burn my last 13 gallons off the
> original tank. Less switching, and like you,
> I like to burn a pile of my fuel off and then have
> a good amount in my final tank so I can easily
> figure that I'll make my home stretch without
> needing to swap back to that lower tank again.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
> do not archive
>
>
> On 8/22/2010 8:33 AM, Jesse Saint wrote:
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Jesse
>> Saint<jesse@saintaviation.com>
>>
>> I think each person probably has their personal limit on this.
>> Personally, I would much rather have 14 gallons in one tank than 7
>> gallons in each, maybe unless conditions are perfectly smooth. Even
>> when flying a 172, on a long trip, I'll burn out of both tanks to
>> verify everything is working in the system, but will burn one tank
>> down until I start losing fuel pressure and then switch so I know all
>> of my fuel is available from the current tank (and it also helps to
>> verify how much fuel I have - see if my calculations are correct,
>> which isn't as much of an issue in the -10). I do this at altitude
>> so, if there's some kind of hickup, there would be plenty of time to
>> get it worked out. I don't think I've ever taken the -10 to the
>> point of losing fuel pressure, but I've taken it to the point where
>> the float reads zero and the flow meter agrees.
>>
>> That's just the way I do it, and I don't like to get on the ground
>> with less than 10 gallons, but all of that on one side if I do get
>> that low.
>>
>> Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com C:
>> 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694
>>
>> On Aug 22, 2010, at 2:37 AM, AirMike wrote:
>>
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "AirMike"<Mikeabel@Pacbell.net>
>>>
>>> In re-analyzing my numbers from my trip to OSH - felt that it is
>>> best to be on the ground when you have less than 7 gallons in each
>>> tank. I have very accurate readings from my tank floats and fuel
>>> scan is right on the money. Since a big percentage of accidents are
>>> from just running out of gas, I'd like any input on minimum usable
>>> fuel in the std tanks so that we can all keep a comfortable safety
>>> zone.
>>
>>> I also need this info as I fit out my 90 gallon internal tank for
>>> the round-the-poles flight - ok just kidding.......
>>>
>>> -------- OSH '10 or Bust Q/B - finally done
>>>
>>>
>>> do not archive
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309710#309710
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: Miniumum fuel comfort zone |
Just to give some idea of accuracy, my GRT EIS/ Chelton setup provides
accuracies of one or two tenths of a gallon. I would consider using into
the last 10 gallons provided my destination was less than 50 miles, had
multiple runways and conditions were "golden" VFR.
Also addressing Tim's "gunk" in the tanks; Most junk in he tanks I have
found in the tanks was left there by the builders. My QB tanks had bits
of proseal when I flushed them. In 35 years of flying, I have found
water twice and each time it was attributable to a FBO pumping the water
in;
One from a tank truck at OSH and once from a FBO pumping it in from an
underground tank. The OSH incident was discovered on the ground and
quantities were copious; The engine would have surely quit before
getting airborne as there were several quarts each side.
The RVS incident was discovered climbing through 5000; the tanks were
slumped prior to filling and the water was thoroughly mixed. I
eliminated the water at FSM.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@saintaviation.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Miniumum fuel comfort zone
>
> I think the issue is more of a minimum fuel & where to have it. In
normal practice, I burn down 10-15 on one side, switch & burn down to 10
on the other, then switch. Only on a long trip where I may be down to
reserve do I do as I suggested. I personally think making minimum fuel
of 7 per side too much. That's 46 gal useable. If it's a trip that
would need 92 gallons, I would split it in half. If it's a 52-gallon
flight, I would not split it up. Then I would burn down one tank dry or
almost so, then fly my last stretch only on the other. I would much
rather be flying with 8 gallons in one tank than 4 gallons in each. I
think that's the issue.
>
> I agree that fuel alarms are good and important, but they are there to
remind you in case you forget. On a long flight (like my nonstop from
FL to WI for OSH), my main task is to let my autopilot fly the plane
while I monitor my fuel, using the fuel computer & winds aloft info
along my route to estimate fuel at destination. I then decide how close
to minimum fuel I will be flying & burn accordingly. On a flight like
that, the last thing I need is a low fuel alarm. Also, I have noticed
with several systems that if I set an alarm at 5 gallons, I need to keep
the tank well above that or well below it to not have the alarm
constantly going off as the float bounces when the fuel sloshes. Once
down to 2-3 gallons, a 5-gal alarm will seldom go off after the first
time. Once acknowledged & noted on the kneeboard, it's known & that
tank not used again.
>
> Another thing I do is switch to the full tank one or twice for a
minute or two before I go "dry" on one side to verify fuel supply is
good & no flow restrictions.
>
> As you said, everybody will have their own way. This is the way that
makes me feel the most comfortable.
>
> Jesse Saint
> I-TEC, Inc.
> jesse@itecusa.org
> www.itecusa.org
> www.mavericklsa.com
> C: 352-427-0285
> O: 352-465-4545
> F: 815-377-3694
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 22, 2010, at 10:28 PM, Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> You know, I somewhat feel the same regarding fuel, that
>> I like to burn a lot off one tank and then I know if my
>> other tank is plenty full I'm doing great, but...I don't
>> know that I'd take it quite as far as you do with it.
>> I agree with Jim, I think 5 gallons remaining is a good
>> bottom limit for most of the time. Here's why...
>>
>> First, if you run a tank to the very end, you're going
>> to have a little more chance to get all the gunk
>> and water that may be at that low spot in the tank.
>> Granted that since our inlet is obviously REALLY close
>> to the low spot, it probably doesn't matter much, but
>> just in concept, I don't know that bottom feeding
>> on the tank is such a great normal routine.
>>
>> Second, at least on my EFIS I have each tank set to
>> alarm below a certain point. If I flew one to
>> empty as a routine, I'd have to silence an alarm,
>> and I don't want to get in the habit of routinely
>> silencing something like that if I can avoid it.
>>
>> Third, like Jim mentioned, it's nice to have
>> a few gallons in that tank that you just don't
>> use, because those can be used to fall back on
>> later. What if suddenly your 2nd and final
>> tank swallows a gob of water that won't run through
>> and your engine dies? If you have even a couple gallons
>> available, you can make it quite a few more miles
>> to get to an airport. I'd always leave 5 gallons
>> just so you have an "out".
>>
>> And last, I did a write up once, but on one IFR flight
>> in IMC, I noticed my tank was using fuel faster than
>> normal. Stupid me, I switched to the OTHER tank,
>> well...it wasn't stupid exactly, but that helped me
>> identify that indeed with the tank shut off I was
>> draining fuel still. But what I SHOULD have done is
>> after verifying, switched back to that tank and
>> used it up...rather than waste all that fuel. I had
>> sumped the tanks in the rain and with all the rain
>> coming down, didn't notice the sump was still dripping
>> and wasn't sealed well. If I would have been using
>> my opposite tank, and I used it to empty, I could
>> have put myself into a situation where I had one
>> empty tank and a problem (leak) with the other.
>>
>> Anyway, not really wanting to nit pick on a procedure,
>> since everyone can have their own, but I thought I'd
>> point out a couple of things on it as to why it's probably
>> best to keep a few gallons in there.
>>
>> I do know what you mean though. I know people that
>> religiously switch tanks every 30 minutes. That's
>> fine, no problem there, but I myself would rather
>> maybe burn the top 10 gallons off one tank,
>> then suck 23 gallons out of the 2nd tank,
>> and then burn my last 13 gallons off the
>> original tank. Less switching, and like you,
>> I like to burn a pile of my fuel off and then have
>> a good amount in my final tank so I can easily
>> figure that I'll make my home stretch without
>> needing to swap back to that lower tank again.
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> On 8/22/2010 8:33 AM, Jesse Saint wrote:
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Jesse
>>> Saint<jesse@saintaviation.com>
>>>
>>> I think each person probably has their personal limit on this.
>>> Personally, I would much rather have 14 gallons in one tank than 7
>>> gallons in each, maybe unless conditions are perfectly smooth. Even
>>> when flying a 172, on a long trip, I'll burn out of both tanks to
>>> verify everything is working in the system, but will burn one tank
>>> down until I start losing fuel pressure and then switch so I know
all
>>> of my fuel is available from the current tank (and it also helps to
>>> verify how much fuel I have - see if my calculations are correct,
>>> which isn't as much of an issue in the -10). I do this at altitude
>>> so, if there's some kind of hickup, there would be plenty of time to
>>> get it worked out. I don't think I've ever taken the -10 to the
>>> point of losing fuel pressure, but I've taken it to the point where
>>> the float reads zero and the flow meter agrees.
>>>
>>> That's just the way I do it, and I don't like to get on the ground
>>> with less than 10 gallons, but all of that on one side if I do get
>>> that low.
>>>
>>> Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com C:
>>> 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694
>>>
>>> On Aug 22, 2010, at 2:37 AM, AirMike wrote:
>>>
>>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "AirMike"<Mikeabel@Pacbell.net>
>>>>
>>>> In re-analyzing my numbers from my trip to OSH - felt that it is
>>>> best to be on the ground when you have less than 7 gallons in each
>>>> tank. I have very accurate readings from my tank floats and fuel
>>>> scan is right on the money. Since a big percentage of accidents are
>>>> from just running out of gas, I'd like any input on minimum usable
>>>> fuel in the std tanks so that we can all keep a comfortable safety
>>>> zone.
>>>
>>>> I also need this info as I fit out my 90 gallon internal tank for
>>>> the round-the-poles flight - ok just kidding.......
>>>>
>>>> -------- OSH '10 or Bust Q/B - finally done
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> do not archive
>>>>
>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309710#309710
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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