Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:30 AM - Re: Door Attach Struts (johngoodman)
2. 07:31 AM - Re: Re: Door Attach Struts (Bob Leffler)
3. 09:05 AM - Re: Door Attach Struts (johngoodman)
4. 10:56 AM - Door handles (Eric_Kallio)
5. 11:17 AM - Re: Door handles (Strasnuts)
6. 12:25 PM - performance (DLM)
7. 01:27 PM - Re: Door handles (Les Kearney)
8. 03:15 PM - Re: performance (Tim Olson)
9. 03:27 PM - Re: Door handles (conradb)
10. 06:09 PM - Doors and body work (bob-tcw)
11. 07:22 PM - Re: performance (DLM)
12. 07:42 PM - Re: performance (Tim Olson)
13. 07:56 PM - Re: Door handles (Tim Olson)
14. 08:28 PM - cowl mounted light (DLM)
15. 09:06 PM - Re: Doors and body work (Pascal)
16. 09:31 PM - Re: performance (Dave Saylor)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Door Attach Struts |
rleffler wrote:
> It drops the mount point for the strut down about 1/4" so that it clears the
> McMaster-Carr door seal.
>
> bob
>
> --
Bob,
You're the guy I want to ask - how much sanding did you have to do to get the doors
to close properly on the door seals? It seems like I'm going to have to totally
remove the curled lip. Also, it is too snug at the door pin areas. Did
you not put door seal there? Or is there another way?
John
--------
#40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312902#312902
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Door Attach Struts |
John,
There have been many folks down this path before me. Geoff Combs is local
to me so I could see what he did with the door seals. Another good source
is Ivan Kristensen.
Take a look at Ivan Kristensen's photo album.
http://ivankristensen.phanfare.com/2292606 On the cabin door album, about
half way through the photos, he has a video that will show you enough
information to get you started. I flew with Ivan a couple weeks ago and his
RV-10 turned out great.
I'm not sure what you mean about too snug at the door pin areas. I didn't
have any issues there at all. It sounds like you may have more of the rain
gutter left than I have. Without photos, it's hard to tell.
My door seals will go around 100% of the opening. The same is true with
both Ivan's and Geoff's. There are many others that have been successful
too. Les Kearney wrote a word doc explaining how he did his doors.
I highly recommend Sean's safety latch and strut attach bracket. Both will
make your life easier.
bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of johngoodman
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 8:27 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Door Attach Struts
--> <johngoodman@earthlink.net>
rleffler wrote:
> It drops the mount point for the strut down about 1/4" so that it
> clears the McMaster-Carr door seal.
>
> bob
>
> --
Bob,
You're the guy I want to ask - how much sanding did you have to do to get
the doors to close properly on the door seals? It seems like I'm going to
have to totally remove the curled lip. Also, it is too snug at the door pin
areas. Did you not put door seal there? Or is there another way?
John
--------
#40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel N711JG reserved
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Door Attach Struts |
Thanks Bob, Ivan's site was fantastic. Just what I needed.
John
--------
#40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312928#312928
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After spending another few work sessions and another 50-60 hours trying to refit
my doors I have reached a few conclusions. First I have done nothing as miserable
in my life as screwing with this doors. In 18 years in the Army, Uncle Sam
has yet to throw anything at me that I despised this much. This includes going
6 months without a real shower or real food. I don't even care about pretty
anymore, I just want the things to work.
With that, they work now...sort of. The doors fit, from the inside they latch relatively
easily, and I am getting good movement of the pins. However, the exterior
flush handles I installed are useless in my installation. I can turn them
just enough to get the third latch cam to engage, and the pins to enter the
guides. The exterior handles to not have enough leverage to over come torque required
to completely engage the latches from the outside. What is worse though
is if you have the door fully latched from the inside you can not open the doors
from the outside. Twice now I have literally ripped the handles and the glass
clean apart from the door requiring reglassing and more reinforcement. These
doors are standing between me and attaching the wings. I have wrung out my
avionics and am getting ready to put this thing into the air, I may just have
to do it as a convertible or something. Perhaps it is time to go back to the
exterior handles from Vans and get the leverage back to the latch mechanism.
Eric Kallio
The 9th level of door Hell!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312937#312937
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Door handles |
Sorry for the frustration. The RV-10 doors are definitely the achilles heal of
the plane. You should not need a ton of leverage to close the door handles and
I think this would be an unsafe sitution or when you are out at some small
airport without cell coverage you will bust your door up and be stranded.
You may have tried all these but here are some recommendations.
Some things I have seen are door pins that bind going in the cabin guide and structure,
make sure the pins are extending going in parallel to the outside skin
and level through the guide. Run a 7/16 reamer through your door guides and
structure on the same plane as the pins extend.
Super tight seals (like mine) that you have to relieve a little. I ended up squishing
my seal so damn tight that the door would flex, I opened the reveal from
the door to the cabin lip by 1/16 and it made a huge difference and the seal
is still really squished.
I can't remember if you bought my door pins. Of course you think I am trying to
sell them BUT the angled pins and Delrin door guides make a huge difference
with ease of door closing. The delrin acts as a good bearing surface and the
angled pins allow a full 7/16 of mis-alignment. Bullet pins only have 7/32 of
misalignment allowance.
Good luck - wish you lived closer
--------
Cust. #40936
RV-10 SB Fuselage
N801VR reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312939#312939
Message 6
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Just a few pictures of the trip to the RNO races. Weight was about 2300.
Message 7
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Hi Eric
I feel your pain as I too was in exactly the same position. I also have
flush handles and had one seize for the same reasons you have experienced.
Here are a few suggestions that might help:
1. Get some white grease or similar and use liberally on the door mechanism.
Be sure to get it into the rack and gears.
2. Carefully disassemble the flush door mechanism (there is a small ball
bearing in a recess with a small spring so don't loose them.
3. Grease the inside of the flush door handle.
I found that there is a huge amount of internal friction in the door
mechanism. A little grease makes the door action very sooth and light. If
there is any significant resistance to operating the mechanism when the door
is open, find the source and fix it. I made my door pin holes on either end
of the door slightly oversize as I found that they were binding there as
well.
You may also want to see if the pins are not exactly running straight
through the guide blocks. If the rack is a bit off center from the pin, you
may find putting a slight bend in the pin will allow it to travel straight
through the block and not be pushed up or down by the rack (which can cause
some binding).
A bit of grease on the guide blocks helps as well.
Another factor that may cause a lot of problems is the amount of pressure
required to close the doors. I found that if the doors require a lot of
pressure to "Pull" the doors into place so the pins engage, then it takes a
great deal of effort to insert the pins.
I moved my door frame inboard by about 1/8" on the bottom to reduce the
pressure on the door seals. The amount of effort required to pull the doors
in enough for the pins to engage is not quite light.
Cheers
Les
#40643
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric_Kallio
Sent: September-19-10 11:53 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Door handles
After spending another few work sessions and another 50-60 hours trying to
refit my doors I have reached a few conclusions. First I have done nothing
as miserable in my life as screwing with this doors. In 18 years in the
Army, Uncle Sam has yet to throw anything at me that I despised this much.
This includes going 6 months without a real shower or real food. I don't
even care about pretty anymore, I just want the things to work.
With that, they work now...sort of. The doors fit, from the inside they
latch relatively easily, and I am getting good movement of the pins.
However, the exterior flush handles I installed are useless in my
installation. I can turn them just enough to get the third latch cam to
engage, and the pins to enter the guides. The exterior handles to not have
enough leverage to over come torque required to completely engage the
latches from the outside. What is worse though is if you have the door fully
latched from the inside you can not open the doors from the outside. Twice
now I have literally ripped the handles and the glass clean apart from the
door requiring reglassing and more reinforcement. These doors are standing
between me and attaching the wings. I have wrung out my avionics and am
getting ready to put this thing into the air, I may just have to do it as a
convertible or something. Perhaps it is time to go back to the exterior
handles from Vans and get the leverage bac!
k to the latch mechanism.
Eric Kallio
The 9th level of door Hell!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312937#312937
Message 8
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Your autopilot was out of trim...did you notice it when you were
flying? Looks like a good cruise though.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
On 9/19/2010 2:09 PM, DLM wrote:
> Just a few pictures of the trip to the RNO races. Weight was about 2300.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Door handles |
Eric Kallio;
I have just completed my X-10 doors and overcame the mechanical stiffness
of Van's original door handles with some common Vaseline. Now they close really
great. However, I believe that after a few months I will replace the Vaseline
with some type of good quality white grease. Also, my doors are completed
with the McMaster Carr door seals.
Conrad Booze in Georgia
--------
Conrad Booze
Sr. Engineer
P. O. Box 7028
Warner Robins, GA. 31095
(478)-335-4264
conradbooze@cox.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312959#312959
Message 10
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| Subject: | Doors and body work |
Fellow builders,
There's been a lot of talk lately regarding doors and seals so I
thought I'd offer up my progress ( and photos) . Two albums on the
subject listed below.
Some observations along the way:
1) Regarding the door seals: I went the McMaster route, however,
when I got done trimming the door jambs back to the proper depth to
allow for the bulb on the seal, I went one step further. The door jamb
profile doesn't naturally match the U shaped profile of the seal, so the
seal would be prone to slipping off without some type of adhesive. I
decided to use a scrap piece of the seal profile as a mould to add a
filler/epoxy profile back to the door jamb that exactly matches the door
seal. I took a 2 foot section of door seal and injected a mix of west
system epoxy and structural filler, (used the cake decorator bag trick
to fill the U shaped profile) then installed the seal section on the
door jamb and let it set- up. Remove the seal and repeat 6 more times
around the door jamb until the whole thing has the exact mating profile
to the seal. Now the little retaining tang inside the U shaped seal
channel has something to grab hold of and the door seals hold onto the
door jamb very well.
2) Regarding filling and sanding around the windows: The electrical
tape technique for masking off the windows works great, however I found
with black electrical tape it was very hard during the sanding process
to distinguish between the tape and the filler. I switched to orange
electrical tape, a huge improvement!. As I'd sand the filler down to
the tape the color of the tape line would really stand out providing
much better guidance in terms of sanding depth onto to the tape.
3) Regarding vacuuming up the filler dust: Whilst all this sanding
and filling is going on I found that when I would clean up the plane
with the shop vac I'd develop an enormous static charge on the plane,
then when I touched it, wham! the mother of static shocks would almost
knock me down. Solution, I grounded the plane!. Problem solved. I
just took an extension cord with a metal box on the end and laid it in
the tail of the plane. All better.
http://picasaweb.google.com/rcnewman64/BodyWork#
http://picasaweb.google.com/rcnewman64/DoorsLatchesSeals#
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies, LLC
www.tcwtech.com
builder #40176
Message 11
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The autopilot is very sensitive; I can manually trim so that the electronic
trim wheel disappears but shortly thereafter it reappears due apparently to
slight pitching of the aircraft.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: performance
>
> Your autopilot was out of trim...did you notice it when you were
> flying? Looks like a good cruise though.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
> do not archive
>
>
> On 9/19/2010 2:09 PM, DLM wrote:
>> Just a few pictures of the trip to the RNO races. Weight was about 2300.
>
>
>
Message 12
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Interesting...I don't find that to be the case at all.
I find that if I trim for hands-off, and set the autopilot,
it stays pretty much 99.9% of the time until descent with
no out-of-trim indication. Very occasionally I get it,
but so rare that maybe enroute cruise I've only seen
the indicator a dozen or 20 times in 650+ hours. It does
come on during descents sometimes though if I don't
re-trim.
Do you have safety-trim or some other speed control
system that allows you to get the trim real precise?
Maybe for some reason your AP servo's sensors are
extra sensitive?
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
On 9/19/2010 9:19 PM, DLM wrote:
>
> The autopilot is very sensitive; I can manually trim so that the
> electronic trim wheel disappears but shortly thereafter it reappears due
> apparently to slight pitching of the aircraft.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 3:10 PM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: performance
>
>
>>
>> Your autopilot was out of trim...did you notice it when you were
>> flying? Looks like a good cruise though.
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> On 9/19/2010 2:09 PM, DLM wrote:
>>> Just a few pictures of the trip to the RNO races. Weight was about 2300.
>>
>>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Door handles |
I'd have to agree here. For around 600 hours
I had no lubrication on my pins and guides at all.
I was totally shocked at the difference made by
simple lithium grease on the pin ends and guide blocks.
There may be better grease solutions, but I just
had some handy and decided to give that a try.
It was amazing how smooth it was after that.
Now I wish I had done the rack gears and stuff.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
On 9/19/2010 3:19 PM, Les Kearney wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Les Kearney"<kearney@shaw.ca>
>
> Hi Eric
>
> I feel your pain as I too was in exactly the same position. I also have
> flush handles and had one seize for the same reasons you have experienced.
>
> Here are a few suggestions that might help:
>
> 1. Get some white grease or similar and use liberally on the door mechanism.
> Be sure to get it into the rack and gears.
>
> 2. Carefully disassemble the flush door mechanism (there is a small ball
> bearing in a recess with a small spring so don't loose them.
>
> 3. Grease the inside of the flush door handle.
>
> I found that there is a huge amount of internal friction in the door
> mechanism. A little grease makes the door action very sooth and light. If
> there is any significant resistance to operating the mechanism when the door
> is open, find the source and fix it. I made my door pin holes on either end
> of the door slightly oversize as I found that they were binding there as
> well.
>
> You may also want to see if the pins are not exactly running straight
> through the guide blocks. If the rack is a bit off center from the pin, you
> may find putting a slight bend in the pin will allow it to travel straight
> through the block and not be pushed up or down by the rack (which can cause
> some binding).
>
> A bit of grease on the guide blocks helps as well.
>
> Another factor that may cause a lot of problems is the amount of pressure
> required to close the doors. I found that if the doors require a lot of
> pressure to "Pull" the doors into place so the pins engage, then it takes a
> great deal of effort to insert the pins.
>
> I moved my door frame inboard by about 1/8" on the bottom to reduce the
> pressure on the door seals. The amount of effort required to pull the doors
> in enough for the pins to engage is not quite light.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
> #40643
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric_Kallio
> Sent: September-19-10 11:53 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Door handles
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Eric_Kallio"<scout019@msn.com>
>
> After spending another few work sessions and another 50-60 hours trying to
> refit my doors I have reached a few conclusions. First I have done nothing
> as miserable in my life as screwing with this doors. In 18 years in the
> Army, Uncle Sam has yet to throw anything at me that I despised this much.
> This includes going 6 months without a real shower or real food. I don't
> even care about pretty anymore, I just want the things to work.
>
> With that, they work now...sort of. The doors fit, from the inside they
> latch relatively easily, and I am getting good movement of the pins.
> However, the exterior flush handles I installed are useless in my
> installation. I can turn them just enough to get the third latch cam to
> engage, and the pins to enter the guides. The exterior handles to not have
> enough leverage to over come torque required to completely engage the
> latches from the outside. What is worse though is if you have the door fully
> latched from the inside you can not open the doors from the outside. Twice
> now I have literally ripped the handles and the glass clean apart from the
> door requiring reglassing and more reinforcement. These doors are standing
> between me and attaching the wings. I have wrung out my avionics and am
> getting ready to put this thing into the air, I may just have to do it as a
> convertible or something. Perhaps it is time to go back to the exterior
> handles from Vans and get the leverage bac!
> k to the latch mechanism.
>
> Eric Kallio
> The 9th level of door Hell!!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312937#312937
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | cowl mounted light |
I found an instance this morning where a cowl mounted landing/taxi light
might have helped. I have the HIDs in the wingtips and they focus and
merge about 50 feet ahead of the aircraft. During taxi this morning
before daylight I followed the taxi lines over a rubber chock set. After
examination the nose pant rear fiberglass is cracked and I will have to
repair. Still to be determined : whether this is due FBO stupidity
/carelessness or deliberate by some disgruntled airport visitor. The
chock was left on the centerline about 50 from the start of the movement
area point. The location is the only path between the runway environment
and the majority of hangars and covered tie downs. Authorities are still
trying to determine why they were there.. Of all the places to drop
these chocks, if unintentional, this is the only place on the airport
guaranteed to cause damage in the dark. A nose mounted light might have
helped; the wingtip mounted lights were disadvantaged by a 90 degree
turn prior.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Doors and body work |
3) Regarding vacuuming up the filler dust:
One thing I will caution is don't use the vacuum when brooming will
work. The fiberglass will literally destroy the shop vac. In my case the
dust was fine enough to clog the filter and cause the vac to overheat or
something, it literally started to spark and smoked and that was the end
of a very reliable vac I had for years.
If one is going to vacuum, and I do when needed, clean the filter often
Take it for whatever it's worth.
Pascal
From: bob-tcw
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 6:01 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Doors and body work
Fellow builders,
There's been a lot of talk lately regarding doors and seals so I
thought I'd offer up my progress ( and photos) . Two albums on the
subject listed below.
Some observations along the way:
1) Regarding the door seals: I went the McMaster route, however,
when I got done trimming the door jambs back to the proper depth to
allow for the bulb on the seal, I went one step further. The door jamb
profile doesn't naturally match the U shaped profile of the seal, so the
seal would be prone to slipping off without some type of adhesive. I
decided to use a scrap piece of the seal profile as a mould to add a
filler/epoxy profile back to the door jamb that exactly matches the door
seal. I took a 2 foot section of door seal and injected a mix of west
system epoxy and structural filler, (used the cake decorator bag trick
to fill the U shaped profile) then installed the seal section on the
door jamb and let it set- up. Remove the seal and repeat 6 more times
around the door jamb until the whole thing has the exact mating profile
to the seal. Now the little retaining tang inside the U shaped seal
channel has something to grab hold of and the door seals hold onto the
door jamb very well.
2) Regarding filling and sanding around the windows: The electrical
tape technique for masking off the windows works great, however I found
with black electrical tape it was very hard during the sanding process
to distinguish between the tape and the filler. I switched to orange
electrical tape, a huge improvement!. As I'd sand the filler down to
the tape the color of the tape line would really stand out providing
much better guidance in terms of sanding depth onto to the tape.
3) Regarding vacuuming up the filler dust: Whilst all this sanding
and filling is going on I found that when I would clean up the plane
with the shop vac I'd develop an enormous static charge on the plane,
then when I touched it, wham! the mother of static shocks would almost
knock me down. Solution, I grounded the plane!. Problem solved. I
just took an extension cord with a metal box on the end and laid it in
the tail of the plane. All better.
http://picasaweb.google.com/rcnewman64/BodyWork#
http://picasaweb.google.com/rcnewman64/DoorsLatchesSeals#
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies, LLC
www.tcwtech.com
builder #40176
Message 16
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Do you have Trutrak's automatic trim? IMO it's worth its weight in gold.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 7:19 PM, DLM <dlm46007@cox.net> wrote:
>
> The autopilot is very sensitive; I can manually trim so that the electronic
> trim wheel disappears but shortly thereafter it reappears due apparently to
> slight pitching of the aircraft.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 3:10 PM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: performance
>
>
>>
>> Your autopilot was out of trim...did you notice it when you were
>> flying? Looks like a good cruise though.
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> On 9/19/2010 2:09 PM, DLM wrote:
>>
>>> Just a few pictures of the trip to the RNO races. Weight was about 2300.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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