Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:06 AM - Re: performance (Jesse Saint)
2. 04:57 AM - Re: Doors and body work (Linn Walters)
3. 05:12 AM - Re: ***SPAM*** Re: Doors and body work (bob-tcw)
4. 05:38 AM - Re: Doors and body work (George, Neal E Capt USAF ACC 505 TRS/DOJ)
5. 06:10 AM - Re: Door handles (Miller John)
6. 07:14 AM - Re: Doors and body work (Bill Mauledriver Watson)
7. 07:15 AM - Re: Doors and body work (Don McDonald)
8. 07:45 AM - Re: performance (Tim Olson)
9. 08:41 AM - Re: Doors and body work (Pascal)
10. 08:43 AM - Re: Doors and body work (Les Kearney)
11. 09:00 AM - Re: Door handles (Jae Chang)
12. 09:11 AM - Re: Doors and body work (Jae Chang)
13. 09:37 AM - RE. Doors and body work (bob-tcw)
14. 09:46 AM - Re: performance (Bruce Johnson)
15. 10:06 AM - Re: performance (Jesse Saint)
16. 10:11 AM - Re: performance (Dave Saylor)
17. 10:40 AM - Re: performance (Bruce Johnson)
18. 10:52 AM - Re: Doors and body work (Bill Mauledriver Watson)
19. 11:02 AM - Re: performance (Geoff Combs)
20. 11:09 AM - Re: performance (Geoff Combs)
21. 11:11 AM - Trutrak Digiflite VSGV (DLM)
22. 11:39 AM - Re: performance (Jesse Saint)
23. 11:51 AM - Re: masking tapes (Linn Walters)
24. 12:48 PM - Re: performance (Tim Olson)
25. 01:33 PM - Re: performance (Geoff Combs)
26. 01:42 PM - Re: performance (David Maib)
27. 01:45 PM - Re: performance (Sean Stephens)
28. 01:57 PM - Re: performance (Tim Olson)
29. 03:44 PM - Re: RE. Doors and body work (Roxanne and Mike Lefever)
30. 04:43 PM - Re: ***SPAM*** Re: RE. Doors and body work (bob-tcw)
31. 05:01 PM - Re: performance (Dave Saylor)
32. 05:25 PM - Engine surging on RV 10 on Landing approach (Wayne Hadath)
33. 05:49 PM - Re: Engine surging on RV 10 on Landing approach (Tim Olson)
34. 07:24 PM - doors and body work (John Gonzalez)
Message 1
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I seem to see it a lot more in non-still air, of course, but I'd say that in the
6 or 7 RV-10's that I've flown, I see it a whole lot more than 20 times / 650
hours, but I don't see it every minute or two. Again, it depends a lot on how
still the air is. I imagine it also makes a difference if you don't have the
high-torque servo. I think that shows out of trim a lot more than the high-torque
one does.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
On Sep 19, 2010, at 10:39 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Interesting...I don't find that to be the case at all.
> I find that if I trim for hands-off, and set the autopilot,
> it stays pretty much 99.9% of the time until descent with
> no out-of-trim indication. Very occasionally I get it,
> but so rare that maybe enroute cruise I've only seen
> the indicator a dozen or 20 times in 650+ hours. It does
> come on during descents sometimes though if I don't
> re-trim.
>
> Do you have safety-trim or some other speed control
> system that allows you to get the trim real precise?
> Maybe for some reason your AP servo's sensors are
> extra sensitive?
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
> do not archive
>
>
> On 9/19/2010 9:19 PM, DLM wrote:
>>
>> The autopilot is very sensitive; I can manually trim so that the
>> electronic trim wheel disappears but shortly thereafter it reappears due
>> apparently to slight pitching of the aircraft.
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 3:10 PM
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: performance
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Your autopilot was out of trim...did you notice it when you were
>>> flying? Looks like a good cruise though.
>>>
>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>>> do not archive
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/19/2010 2:09 PM, DLM wrote:
>>>> Just a few pictures of the trip to the RNO races. Weight was about 2300.
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Doors and body work |
Sorry to hear of the loss of family friend .... :-P
Best advice is clean often. I have three vacs .... a Sears shop vac
that converts into a leaf (and hangar) blower and two smaller ones. The
Sears has a pleated paper filter and the smaller ones use a foam
filter. I bought a kit that uses a microfiber cloth to cover the foam
filters ....... because the foam filters still let a lot of 'dust'
through. I can wash these and re-use or just blow them off after each
use. I haven't found anything to cover the large paper filter, but shop
air cleans it really well if done often.
The reason I've gone this route is because of a friends surfboard shop
..... and his central vac ..... that got clogged with foam dust and
burnt like Pascal's. Any light material coats the filter reducing
airflow .... and that motor really needs it for cooling. Sand, however,
seems to fall into the bottom of of the vac without clinging to the filters.
Pascal's advice to clean often is spot on!!!
Linn
BTW, I use my leaf blowers to clean the shop (I have a big door on the
shop) and hangars because it gets underneath stuff where a broom won't
go .......
On 9/20/2010 12:04 AM, Pascal wrote:
> 3) Regarding vacuuming up the filler dust:
> One thing I will caution is don't use the vacuum when brooming will
> work. The fiberglass will literally destroy the shop vac. In my case
> the dust was fine enough to clog the filter and cause the vac to
> overheat or something, it literally started to spark and smoked and
> that was the end of a very reliable vac I had for years.
> If one is going to vacuum, and I do when needed, clean the filter often
> Take it for whatever it's worth.
> Pascal
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Doors and body work |
Excellent Point! I take for granted that I have worked thru various
shop vacuums over time and have come upon the Fein Turbo III with HEPA
filter. It is a tremondous machine, really sucks, is quiet, and the
filter is awsome. It also has a little secondary filter at the motor
inlet to capture any last little bits that get past the main hepa filter
and even after many days of sanding and cleaning the secondary filter is
completely clean. Over the past 5-6 years we have changed over to the
Fein vacuums at all three of our shops, I think we own 5 of them now.
Highly recommended.
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies,
----- Original Message -----
From: Pascal
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 12:04 AM
Subject: ***SPAM*** Re: RV10-List: Doors and body work
3) Regarding vacuuming up the filler dust:
One thing I will caution is don't use the vacuum when brooming will
work. The fiberglass will literally destroy the shop vac. In my case the
dust was fine enough to clog the filter and cause the vac to overheat or
something, it literally started to spark and smoked and that was the end
of a very reliable vac I had for years.
If one is going to vacuum, and I do when needed, clean the filter
often
Take it for whatever it's worth.
Pascal
From: bob-tcw
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 6:01 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Doors and body work
Fellow builders,
There's been a lot of talk lately regarding doors and seals so I
thought I'd offer up my progress ( and photos) . Two albums on the
subject listed below.
Some observations along the way:
1) Regarding the door seals: I went the McMaster route, however,
when I got done trimming the door jambs back to the proper depth to
allow for the bulb on the seal, I went one step further. The door jamb
profile doesn't naturally match the U shaped profile of the seal, so the
seal would be prone to slipping off without some type of adhesive. I
decided to use a scrap piece of the seal profile as a mould to add a
filler/epoxy profile back to the door jamb that exactly matches the door
seal. I took a 2 foot section of door seal and injected a mix of west
system epoxy and structural filler, (used the cake decorator bag trick
to fill the U shaped profile) then installed the seal section on the
door jamb and let it set- up. Remove the seal and repeat 6 more times
around the door jamb until the whole thing has the exact mating profile
to the seal. Now the little retaining tang inside the U shaped seal
channel has something to grab hold of and the door seals hold onto the
door jamb very well.
2) Regarding filling and sanding around the windows: The electrical
tape technique for masking off the windows works great, however I found
with black electrical tape it was very hard during the sanding process
to distinguish between the tape and the filler. I switched to orange
electrical tape, a huge improvement!. As I'd sand the filler down to
the tape the color of the tape line would really stand out providing
much better guidance in terms of sanding depth onto to the tape.
3) Regarding vacuuming up the filler dust: Whilst all this sanding
and filling is going on I found that when I would clean up the plane
with the shop vac I'd develop an enormous static charge on the plane,
then when I touched it, wham! the mother of static shocks would almost
knock me down. Solution, I grounded the plane!. Problem solved. I
just took an extension cord with a metal box on the end and laid it in
the tail of the plane. All better.
http://picasaweb.google.com/rcnewman64/BodyWork#
http://picasaweb.google.com/rcnewman64/DoorsLatchesSeals#
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies, LLC
www.tcwtech.com
builder #40176
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 4
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| Subject: | Doors and body work |
Check your local hardware store for shop vac filter bags designed for
drywall dust. Much better than the pleated filter alone.
neal
===============
3) Regarding vacuuming up the filler dust:
One thing I will caution is don't use the vacuum when brooming will
work. The fiberglass will literally destroy the shop vac. In my case the
dust was fine enough to clog the filter and cause the vac to overheat or
something, it literally started to spark and smoked and that was the end
of a very reliable vac I had for years.
If one is going to vacuum, and I do when needed, clean the filter often
Take it for whatever it's worth.
Pascal
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Door handles |
I have used LP2 on my gears since my first ACI, and mine work very
smoothly and easily.
One of these days I'll get around to trying to install the center
latch......
grumpy
do not archive
On Sep 19, 2010, at 9:53 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> I'd have to agree here. For around 600 hours
> I had no lubrication on my pins and guides at all.
> I was totally shocked at the difference made by
> simple lithium grease on the pin ends and guide blocks.
> There may be better grease solutions, but I just
> had some handy and decided to give that a try.
> It was amazing how smooth it was after that.
> Now I wish I had done the rack gears and stuff.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
> do not archive
>
>
> On 9/19/2010 3:19 PM, Les Kearney wrote:
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Les Kearney"<kearney@shaw.ca>
>>
>> Hi Eric
>>
>> I feel your pain as I too was in exactly the same position. I also
>> have
>> flush handles and had one seize for the same reasons you have
>> experienced.
>>
>> Here are a few suggestions that might help:
>>
>> 1. Get some white grease or similar and use liberally on the door
>> mechanism.
>> Be sure to get it into the rack and gears.
>>
>> 2. Carefully disassemble the flush door mechanism (there is a small
>> ball
>> bearing in a recess with a small spring so don't loose them.
>>
>> 3. Grease the inside of the flush door handle.
>>
>> I found that there is a huge amount of internal friction in the door
>> mechanism. A little grease makes the door action very sooth and
>> light. If
>> there is any significant resistance to operating the mechanism when
>> the door
>> is open, find the source and fix it. I made my door pin holes on
>> either end
>> of the door slightly oversize as I found that they were binding
>> there as
>> well.
>>
>> You may also want to see if the pins are not exactly running straight
>> through the guide blocks. If the rack is a bit off center from the
>> pin, you
>> may find putting a slight bend in the pin will allow it to travel
>> straight
>> through the block and not be pushed up or down by the rack (which
>> can cause
>> some binding).
>>
>> A bit of grease on the guide blocks helps as well.
>>
>> Another factor that may cause a lot of problems is the amount of
>> pressure
>> required to close the doors. I found that if the doors require a
>> lot of
>> pressure to "Pull" the doors into place so the pins engage, then it
>> takes a
>> great deal of effort to insert the pins.
>>
>> I moved my door frame inboard by about 1/8" on the bottom to reduce
>> the
>> pressure on the door seals. The amount of effort required to pull
>> the doors
>> in enough for the pins to engage is not quite light.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Les
>> #40643
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> Eric_Kallio
>> Sent: September-19-10 11:53 AM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RV10-List: Door handles
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Eric_Kallio"<scout019@msn.com>
>>
>> After spending another few work sessions and another 50-60 hours
>> trying to
>> refit my doors I have reached a few conclusions. First I have done
>> nothing
>> as miserable in my life as screwing with this doors. In 18 years in
>> the
>> Army, Uncle Sam has yet to throw anything at me that I despised
>> this much.
>> This includes going 6 months without a real shower or real food. I
>> don't
>> even care about pretty anymore, I just want the things to work.
>>
>> With that, they work now...sort of. The doors fit, from the inside
>> they
>> latch relatively easily, and I am getting good movement of the pins.
>> However, the exterior flush handles I installed are useless in my
>> installation. I can turn them just enough to get the third latch
>> cam to
>> engage, and the pins to enter the guides. The exterior handles to
>> not have
>> enough leverage to over come torque required to completely engage the
>> latches from the outside. What is worse though is if you have the
>> door fully
>> latched from the inside you can not open the doors from the
>> outside. Twice
>> now I have literally ripped the handles and the glass clean apart
>> from the
>> door requiring reglassing and more reinforcement. These doors are
>> standing
>> between me and attaching the wings. I have wrung out my avionics
>> and am
>> getting ready to put this thing into the air, I may just have to do
>> it as a
>> convertible or something. Perhaps it is time to go back to the
>> exterior
>> handles from Vans and get the leverage bac!
>> k to the latch mechanism.
>>
>> Eric Kallio
>> The 9th level of door Hell!!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312937#312937
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Doors and body work |
The secret weapon for my Shop Vac is to use the optional filter bag.
I have a "shop-vac" from Lowes or HomeDepot. It comes with a foam
filter covering the fan input but disposable filter bags are sold as an
option. The bag captures virtually all dust keeping not only the
exhaust dust free, but also the inside of the vacuum. It has a lot of
surface area so it doesn't immediately clog. Very effective. I
figured this one out when doing some concrete grinding in the house....
there are things worse than fiberglass.
If you are using a standard wet/dry shop vac - get and use a filter bag
for better results. Change it with reasonable frequency.
Fiberglass, sandpaper, and a bagged shop vac - we're attached at the
hip. Now if I just had a remote control for the thing.
Will try to attach pic...
Bill "taking a last pass on the doors" Watson
On 9/20/2010 7:49 AM, Linn Walters wrote:
> Sorry to hear of the loss of family friend .... :-P
> Best advice is clean often. I have three vacs .... a Sears shop vac
> that converts into a leaf (and hangar) blower and two smaller ones.
> The Sears has a pleated paper filter and the smaller ones use a foam
> filter. I bought a kit that uses a microfiber cloth to cover the foam
> filters ....... because the foam filters still let a lot of 'dust'
> through. I can wash these and re-use or just blow them off after each
> use. I haven't found anything to cover the large paper filter, but
> shop air cleans it really well if done often.
> The reason I've gone this route is because of a friends surfboard shop
> ..... and his central vac ..... that got clogged with foam dust and
> burnt like Pascal's. Any light material coats the filter reducing
> airflow .... and that motor really needs it for cooling. Sand,
> however, seems to fall into the bottom of of the vac without clinging
> to the filters.
>
> Pascal's advice to clean often is spot on!!!
> Linn
>
> BTW, I use my leaf blowers to clean the shop (I have a big door on the
> shop) and hangars because it gets underneath stuff where a broom won't
> go .......
>
>
> On 9/20/2010 12:04 AM, Pascal wrote:
>> 3) Regarding vacuuming up the filler dust:
>> One thing I will caution is don't use the vacuum when brooming will
>> work. The fiberglass will literally destroy the shop vac. In my case
>> the dust was fine enough to clog the filter and cause the vac to
>> overheat or something, it literally started to spark and smoked and
>> that was the end of a very reliable vac I had for years.
>> If one is going to vacuum, and I do when needed, clean the filter often
>> Take it for whatever it's worth.
>> Pascal
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Doors and body work |
One last little piece of advise... buy an extension for the vacuum so you c
an put it outside while vacuuming.=C2- We also did this when removing a t
ile floor in the house.=C2- Keeps the fine dust OUT.
Don
--- On Mon, 9/20/10, Linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net> wrote:
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Doors and body work
Sorry to hear of the loss of family friend .... :-P
Best advice is clean often.=C2- I have three vacs .... a Sears shop vac t
hat converts into a leaf (and hangar) blower and two smaller ones.=C2- Th
e Sears has a pleated paper filter and the smaller ones use a foam filter.
=C2- I bought a kit that uses a microfiber cloth to cover the foam filter
s ....... because the foam filters still let a lot of 'dust' through.=C2-
I can wash these and re-use or just blow them off after each use.=C2- I
haven't found anything to cover the large paper filter, but shop air cleans
it really well if done often.=C2-
The reason I've gone this route is because of a friends surfboard shop ....
. and his central vac ..... that got clogged with foam dust and burnt like
Pascal's.=C2- Any light material coats the filter reducing airflow .... a
nd that motor really needs it for cooling.=C2- Sand, however, seems to fa
ll into the bottom of of the vac without clinging to the filters.
Pascal's advice to clean often is spot on!!!
Linn
BTW, I use my leaf blowers to clean the shop (I have a big door on the shop
) and hangars because it gets underneath stuff where a broom won't go .....
..
On 9/20/2010 12:04 AM, Pascal wrote:
3)=C2-Regarding vacuuming up the filler dust:=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
One thing I will caution is don=99t use the vacuum when brooming will
work. The fiberglass will literally destroy the shop vac. In my case the d
ust was fine enough to clog the filter and cause the vac to overheat or som
ething, it literally started to spark and smoked and that was the end of a
very reliable vac I had for years.
If one is going to vacuum, and I do when needed, clean the filter often
Take it for whatever it's worth.
Pascal
=0A=0A=0A
Message 8
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I could be wrong on the number...it's just off the top of my head.
Basically, it's just something that I almost never see DURING the
time I'm in cruise after I trim. I do have slow-speed trim,
due to safety-trim, so generally when I trim I'm trimmed out
so well that it would pretty much maintain altitude hands-off
for a bit. With the fuel being real near CG, it doesn't change
the trim too much during flight.
The other factor is that very many of my trips end up being
in still air. The RV-10 has allowed me to enjoy cruising at
altitudes more comfortable than my old plane would like.
At any rate, I very rarely see that indication, except for
when I've started my descent and have to adjust power and
speed. Heck, if I had said 50 times in 650 hours, it would
still be a really low number...but I doubt I've seen
it that many times in LEVEL flight in cruise. I differ
from Dave Saylor in that personally, I don't find the need
for auto-trim, because I don't mind re-trimming when I
see the indication on descent under AP control. I don't
think it would be a bad feature. I just have a personal
hangup in trusting another device adding to the complexity.
If it were free, I'd definitely have it, but it isn't
super cheap from what I hear. (Never personally priced it though)
But for money and trust, and since I've never felt it
to be a big inconvenience, I don't have it. I have heard
from at least 3 or 4 people who love auto-trim though, so
I must say that those who like it have vocalized it.
Those who haven't tried it probably won't miss it. I imagine
if I had it, maybe I'd be one speaking in big support, too...
...it's tough though as so far the RV-10 is so nice to fly
and I have so little workload, I can't see needing it to
be any easier.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
On 9/20/2010 6:03 AM, Jesse Saint wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Jesse
> Saint<jesse@saintaviation.com>
>
> I seem to see it a lot more in non-still air, of course, but I'd say
> that in the 6 or 7 RV-10's that I've flown, I see it a whole lot more
> than 20 times / 650 hours, but I don't see it every minute or two.
> Again, it depends a lot on how still the air is. I imagine it also
> makes a difference if you don't have the high-torque servo. I think
> that shows out of trim a lot more than the high-torque one does.
>
> do not archive
>
> Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com C:
> 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694
>
> On Sep 19, 2010, at 10:39 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson<Tim@myrv10.com>
>>
>> Interesting...I don't find that to be the case at all. I find that
>> if I trim for hands-off, and set the autopilot, it stays pretty
>> much 99.9% of the time until descent with no out-of-trim
>> indication. Very occasionally I get it, but so rare that maybe
>> enroute cruise I've only seen the indicator a dozen or 20 times in
>> 650+ hours. It does come on during descents sometimes though if I
>> don't re-trim.
>>
>> Do you have safety-trim or some other speed control system that
>> allows you to get the trim real precise? Maybe for some reason your
>> AP servo's sensors are extra sensitive?
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive
>>
>>
>> On 9/19/2010 9:19 PM, DLM wrote:
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "DLM"<dlm46007@cox.net>
>>>
>>> The autopilot is very sensitive; I can manually trim so that the
>>> electronic trim wheel disappears but shortly thereafter it
>>> reappears due apparently to slight pitching of the aircraft.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson"<Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>> To:<rv10-list@matronics.com> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010
>>> 3:10 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: performance
>>>
>>>
>>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson<Tim@myrv10.com>
>>>>
>>>> Your autopilot was out of trim...did you notice it when you
>>>> were flying? Looks like a good cruise though.
>>>>
>>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9/19/2010 2:09 PM, DLM wrote:
>>>>> Just a few pictures of the trip to the RNO races. Weight was
>>>>> about 2300.
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Doors and body work |
BTW, I use my leaf blowers to clean the shop (I have a big door on the
shop) and hangars because it gets underneath stuff where a broom won't
go .......
I have a HF air nozzle that I use to blow the excess off the ground etc.
I also use it to blow dust off the foam filter- amazing how much come
out of the filters even after I "think" it was cleaned.
From: Linn Walters
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 4:49 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Doors and body work
Sorry to hear of the loss of family friend .... :-P
Best advice is clean often. I have three vacs .... a Sears shop vac
that converts into a leaf (and hangar) blower and two smaller ones. The
Sears has a pleated paper filter and the smaller ones use a foam filter.
I bought a kit that uses a microfiber cloth to cover the foam filters
....... because the foam filters still let a lot of 'dust' through. I
can wash these and re-use or just blow them off after each use. I
haven't found anything to cover the large paper filter, but shop air
cleans it really well if done often.
The reason I've gone this route is because of a friends surfboard shop
..... and his central vac ..... that got clogged with foam dust and
burnt like Pascal's. Any light material coats the filter reducing
airflow .... and that motor really needs it for cooling. Sand, however,
seems to fall into the bottom of of the vac without clinging to the
filters.
Pascal's advice to clean often is spot on!!!
Linn
BTW, I use my leaf blowers to clean the shop (I have a big door on the
shop) and hangars because it gets underneath stuff where a broom won't
go .......
On 9/20/2010 12:04 AM, Pascal wrote:
3) Regarding vacuuming up the filler dust:
One thing I will caution is don't use the vacuum when brooming will
work. The fiberglass will literally destroy the shop vac. In my case the
dust was fine enough to clog the filter and cause the vac to overheat or
something, it literally started to spark and smoked and that was the end
of a very reliable vac I had for years.
If one is going to vacuum, and I do when needed, clean the filter
often
Take it for whatever it's worth.
Pascal
Message 10
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| Subject: | Doors and body work |
Bob
Your trick for making a profile on the door edge is positively brilliant.
Given that I really don't want to ever finish my doors, I may try that as
well.
Cheers
Les
#40643
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob-tcw
Sent: September-19-10 7:02 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Doors and body work
Fellow builders,
There's been a lot of talk lately regarding doors and seals so I thought
I'd offer up my progress ( and photos) . Two albums on the subject listed
below.
Some observations along the way:
1) Regarding the door seals: I went the McMaster route, however, when I
got done trimming the door jambs back to the proper depth to allow for the
bulb on the seal, I went one step further. The door jamb profile doesn't
naturally match the U shaped profile of the seal, so the seal would be prone
to slipping off without some type of adhesive. I decided to use a scrap
piece of the seal profile as a mould to add a filler/epoxy profile back to
the door jamb that exactly matches the door seal. I took a 2 foot section
of door seal and injected a mix of west system epoxy and structural filler,
(used the cake decorator bag trick to fill the U shaped profile) then
installed the seal section on the door jamb and let it set- up. Remove the
seal and repeat 6 more times around the door jamb until the whole thing has
the exact mating profile to the seal. Now the little retaining tang
inside the U shaped seal channel has something to grab hold of and the door
seals hold onto the door jamb very well.
2) Regarding filling and sanding around the windows: The electrical tape
technique for masking off the windows works great, however I found with
black electrical tape it was very hard during the sanding process to
distinguish between the tape and the filler. I switched to orange
electrical tape, a huge improvement!. As I'd sand the filler down to the
tape the color of the tape line would really stand out providing much better
guidance in terms of sanding depth onto to the tape.
3) Regarding vacuuming up the filler dust: Whilst all this sanding and
filling is going on I found that when I would clean up the plane with the
shop vac I'd develop an enormous static charge on the plane, then when I
touched it, wham! the mother of static shocks would almost knock me down.
Solution, I grounded the plane!. Problem solved. I just took an extension
cord with a metal box on the end and laid it in the tail of the plane. All
better.
http://picasaweb.google.com/rcnewman64/BodyWork#
http://picasaweb.google.com/rcnewman64/DoorsLatchesSeals#
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies, LLC
www.tcwtech.com
builder #40176
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Door handles |
Eric... i absolutely agree with what was already said. Lube the door
pins at least.
I have stock door handles and initially, they still required too much
effort to close, even after polishing and porting a bit. All I did was
put some boelube on the door guides, and it was a night and day difference!
Extra leverage would only cause *something* else to break. (Stealing
Deems voice, ask me how i know.) IMHO, i think the doors should be able
to close with a finger or two, easily.
Jae
#40533
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Doors and body work |
Hahaha, I absolutely agree with both Les and Bob.
Bob, you forgot to put up a warning, "This post could cause you
countless more hours of work."
I am on a parallel track and glad to see similar things from someone
else. My door frame looked similar to yours after trimming for mcmaster
seals. Especially along the forward edge, near that elbow bend, I was
worried about making it too thin, but I see you had the same experience.
I wish I had known about the wonderful qualities of using electrical
tape for masking work earlier. It easily bends around corners and won't
tear, which both masking tape and blue painters tape will not do easily.
Still on the fence about doing the door edge work. Wish I had bought
some extra door seal material.
Jae
40533
On 9/20/2010 8:41 AM, Les Kearney wrote:
> Bob
> Your trick for making a profile on the door edge is positively
> brilliant. Given that I really don't want to ever finish my doors, I
> may try that as well.
> Cheers
> Les
> #40643
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Doors and body work |
Patrick,
1) Regarding the order of events having to do with the panel and the
canopy. I'd say with a 1000 airplanes under construction, you'll get
1000 answers. Here's what I did in order: 1- All work on inside top
surface of canopy including fit-up to fuse 2- Built and finished
overhead plenum with canopy off plane including install of rear windows.
3- Installed canopy on plane then fit doors. 4- completed all wiring
and panel and built my glare shield-defroster plenum detail. 5-
Installed windscreen, built fairing, doing body work on whole
canopy-windscreen-doors as a big single assembly.
2) Regarding the piping around the instrument panel. This is part of
my defroster plenum/ instrument panel detail that I laid up out of
fiberglass. It does three things: deflects defrost air from cooling
fans right onto the windscreen, hides the hand holds cut into fuse that
I don't like and hides the two computer fans that draw warm air out of
instrument panel area, and three, provides a nice rounded finished edge
to frame out the panel. You can see the progression of construction in
the following album:
http://picasaweb.google.com/rcnewman64/GlareShieldWindshield#
3) Regarding material used on interior. 1) Filled in voids in interior
canopy that I didn't like with X-30 expanding foam and then reshaped the
way I liked it. 2) laid up a couple layers of light weight cloth over
foam. 3) West system epoxy with a progression of fillers, primarily
407 and 410 filler. 4) Final detail filling with Super-Fil 5) a
ridiculous amount of sanding all along 6) UV super prime -filler
sprayed on with a true HVLP gun with a 1.8 tip 7) more sanding and
now ready for final paint. (I'm using the same process on the
exterior, except no need for any filling with foam as in step 1) see:
http://picasaweb.google.com/rcnewman64/OverheadConsole02# and
http://picasaweb.google.com/rcnewman64/FiberglassWork02# for the
photos
Bob Newman
----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick Pulis
To: rnewman@tcwtech.com
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 11:48 PM
Subject: ***SPAM*** Re: RV10-List: Doors and body work
Bob, many thanks for the insight, you a saint my friend for us
'fibreglass virgins'.
Could you please assist me with a few questions:
1. I am yet to decide on my panel, I have purchased Geoff's carbon
fibre panel and will be ultimately installing that, how far can I
progress (canopy and front windscreen installation) without completing
the entire panel?
2. Could you please tell me how you did the 'piping' around the
instrument panel coaming and edges?
3. What did you apply to the interior to achieve that smooth
result?
Many thanks from downunder.
Patrick Pulis
Adelaide, South Australia
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: bob-tcw <rnewman@tcwtech.com>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Mon, 20 September, 2010 10:31:46 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Doors and body work
Fellow builders,
There's been a lot of talk lately regarding doors and seals so I
thought I'd offer up my progress ( and photos) . Two albums on the
subject listed below.
Some observations along the way:
1) Regarding the door seals: I went the McMaster route, however,
when I got done trimming the door jambs back to the proper depth to
allow for the bulb on the seal, I went one step further. The door jamb
profile doesn't naturally match the U shaped profile of the seal, so the
seal would be prone to slipping off without some type of adhesive. I
decided to use a scrap piece of the seal profile as a mould to add a
filler/epoxy profile back to the door jamb that exactly matches the door
seal. I took a 2 foot section of door seal and injected a mix of west
system epoxy and structural filler, (used the cake decorator bag trick
to fill the U shaped profile) then installed the seal section on the
door jamb and let it set- up. Remove the seal and repeat 6 more times
around the door jamb until the whole thing has the exact mating profile
to the seal. Now the little retaining tang inside the U shaped seal
channel has something to grab hold of and the door seals hold onto the
door jamb very well.
2) Regarding filling and sanding around the windows: The electrical
tape technique for masking off the windows works great, however I found
with black electrical tape it was very hard during the sanding process
to distinguish between the tape and the filler. I switched to orange
electrical tape, a huge improvement!. As I'd sand the filler down to
the tape the color of the tape line would really stand out providing
much better guidance in terms of sanding depth onto to the tape.
3) Regarding vacuuming up the filler dust: Whilst all this sanding
and filling is going on I found that when I would clean up the plane
with the shop vac I'd develop an enormous static charge on the plane,
then when I touched it, wham! the mother of static shocks would almost
knock me down. Solution, I grounded the plane!. Problem solved. I
just took an extension cord with a metal box on the end and laid it in
the tail of the plane. All better.
http://picasaweb.google.com/rcnewman64/BodyWork#
http://picasaweb.google.com/rcnewman64/DoorsLatchesSeals#
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies, LLC
www.tcwtech.com
builder #40176
===========
Message 14
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Howdy all!!! Got the 10 in the air for the second time Sat and for the most
=0Apart, all is well. Had a issue with the Sorcererr though and was wonder
ing if =0Aanybody else has been through this. I Turned on the AP and it fel
t like it was =0Asearching, especially altitude. It would start wanting to
do anything except =0Astraight and level. Any Ideas???=0A=0ABruce 151BJ-
-=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Tim Olson <Tim@m
yrv10.com>=0ATo: rv10-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Mon, September 20, 2010 6:
25:14 AM=0ASubject: Re: RV10-List: performance=0A=0A--> RV10-List message p
osted by: Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com>=0A=0AI could be wrong on the number...
it's just off the top of my head.=0ABasically, it's just something that I a
lmost never see DURING the=0Atime I'm in cruise after I trim.- I do have
slow-speed trim,=0Adue to safety-trim, so generally when I trim I'm trimmed
out=0Aso well that it would pretty much maintain altitude hands-off=0Afor
a bit.- With the fuel being real near CG, it doesn't change=0Athe trim to
o much during flight.=0A=0AThe other factor is that very many of my trips e
nd up being=0Ain still air.- The RV-10 has allowed me to enjoy cruising a
t=0Aaltitudes more comfortable than my old plane would like.=0AAt any rate,
I very rarely see that indication, except for=0Awhen I've started my desce
nt and have to adjust power and=0Aspeed.- Heck, if I had said 50 times in
650 hours, it would=0Astill be a really low number...but I doubt I've seen
=0Ait that many times in LEVEL flight in cruise.- I differ=0Afrom Dave Sa
ylor in that personally, I don't find the need=0Afor auto-trim, because I d
on't mind re-trimming when I=0Asee the indication on descent under AP contr
ol.- I don't=0Athink it would be a bad feature.- I just have a personal
=0Ahangup in trusting another device adding to the complexity.=0AIf it were
free, I'd definitely have it, but it isn't=0Asuper cheap from what I hear.
(Never personally priced it though)=0ABut for money and trust, and since I
've never felt it=0Ato be a big inconvenience, I don't have it.- I have h
eard=0Afrom at least 3 or 4 people who love auto-trim though, so=0AI must s
ay that those who like it have vocalized it.=0AThose who haven't tried it p
robably won't miss it.- I imagine=0Aif I had it, maybe I'd be one speakin
g in big support, too...=0A...it's tough though as so far the RV-10 is so n
ice to fly=0Aand I have so little workload, I can't see needing it to=0Abe
any easier.=0A=0ATim Olson - RV-10 N104CD=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0AOn 9/20/
2010 6:03 AM, Jesse Saint wrote:=0A> -->- RV10-List message posted by: Je
sse=0A> Saint<jesse@saintaviation.com>=0A>=0A> I seem to see it a lot more
in non-still air, of course, but I'd say=0A> that in the 6 or 7 RV-10's tha
t I've flown, I see it a whole lot more=0A> than 20 times / 650 hours, but
I don't see it every minute or two.=0A> Again, it depends a lot on how stil
l the air is.- I imagine it also=0A> makes a difference if you don't have
the high-torque servo.- I think=0A> that shows out of trim a lot more th
an the high-torque one does.=0A>=0A> do not archive=0A>=0A> Jesse Saint Sai
nt Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com C:=0A> 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-36
94=0A>=0A> On Sep 19, 2010, at 10:39 PM, Tim Olson wrote:=0A>=0A>> -->- R
V10-List message posted by: Tim Olson<Tim@myrv10.com>=0A>>=0A>> Interesting
...I don't find that to be the case at all. I find that=0A>> if I trim for
hands-off, and set the autopilot, it stays pretty=0A>> much 99.9% of the ti
me until descent with no out-of-trim=0A>> indication.- Very occasionally
I get it, but so rare that maybe=0A>> enroute cruise I've only seen the ind
icator a dozen or 20 times in=0A>> 650+ hours.- It does come on during de
scents sometimes though if I=0A>> don't re-trim.=0A>>=0A>> Do you have safe
ty-trim or some other speed control system that=0A>> allows you to get the
trim real precise? Maybe for some reason your=0A>> AP servo's sensors are e
xtra sensitive?=0A>>=0A>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive=0A>>=0A>>
=0A>> On 9/19/2010 9:19 PM, DLM wrote:=0A>>> -->- RV10-List message poste
d by: "DLM"<dlm46007@cox.net>=0A>>>=0A>>> The autopilot is very sensitive;
I can manually trim so that the=0A>>> electronic trim wheel disappears but
shortly thereafter it=0A>>> reappears due apparently to slight pitching of
the aircraft.=0A>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson"<Tim@MyRV
10.com>=0A>>> To:<rv10-list@matronics.com> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010
=0A>>> 3:10 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: performance=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>> -->
- RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson<Tim@myrv10.com>=0A>>>>=0A>>>> Yo
ur autopilot was out of trim...did you notice it when you=0A>>>> were flyin
g? Looks like a good cruise though.=0A>>>>=0A>>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>> On 9/19/2010 2:09 PM, DLM wrote:=0A>>>>
> Just a few pictures of the trip to the RNO races. Weight was=0A>>>>> abou
-========================
============0A=0A=0A
Message 15
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You need to adjust your torque, sensitivity and micro activity settings,
most likely.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
On Sep 20, 2010, at 12:42 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote:
> Howdy all!!! Got the 10 in the air for the second time Sat and for the
most part, all is well. Had a issue with the Sorcererr though and was
wondering if anybody else has been through this. I Turned on the AP and
it felt like it was searching, especially altitude. It would start
wanting to do anything except straight and level. Any Ideas???
>
> Bruce 151BJ
>
> From: Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Mon, September 20, 2010 6:25:14 AM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: performance
>
>
> I could be wrong on the number...it's just off the top of my head.
> Basically, it's just something that I almost never see DURING the
> time I'm in cruise after I trim. I do have slow-speed trim,
> due to safety-trim, so generally when I trim I'm trimmed out
> so well that it would pretty much maintain altitude hands-off
> for a bit. With the fuel being real near CG, it doesn't change
> the trim too much during flight.
>
> The other factor is that very many of my trips end up being
> in still air. The RV-10 has allowed me to enjoy cruising at
> altitudes more comfortable than my old plane would like.
> At any rate, I very rarely see that indication, except for
> when I've started my descent and have to adjust power and
> speed. Heck, if I had said 50 times in 650 hours, it would
> still be a really low number...but I doubt I've seen
> it that many times in LEVEL flight in cruise. I differ
> from Dave Saylor in that personally, I don't find the need
> for auto-trim, because I don't mind re-trimming when I
> see the indication on descent under AP control. I don't
> think it would be a bad feature. I just have a personal
> hangup in trusting another device adding to the complexity.
> If it were free, I'd definitely have it, but it isn't
> super cheap from what I hear. (Never personally priced it though)
> But for money and trust, and since I've never felt it
> to be a big inconvenience, I don't have it. I have heard
> from at least 3 or 4 people who love auto-trim though, so
> I must say that those who like it have vocalized it.
> Those who haven't tried it probably won't miss it. I imagine
> if I had it, maybe I'd be one speaking in big support, too...
> ...it's tough though as so far the RV-10 is so nice to fly
> and I have so little workload, I can't see needing it to
> be any easier.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
> do not archive
>
>
> On 9/20/2010 6:03 AM, Jesse Saint wrote:
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: Jesse
> > Saint<jesse@saintaviation.com>
> >
> > I seem to see it a lot more in non-still air, of course, but I'd say
> > that in the 6 or 7 RV-10's that I've flown, I see it a whole lot
more
> > than 20 times / 650 hours, but I don't see it every minute or two.
> > Again, it depends a lot on how still the air is. I imagine it also
> > makes a difference if you don't have the high-torque servo. I think
> > that shows out of trim a lot more than the high-torque one does.
> >
> > do not archive
> >
> > Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com C:
> > 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694
> >
> > On Sep 19, 2010, at 10:39 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
> >
> >> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson<Tim@myrv10.com>
> >>
> >> Interesting...I don't find that to be the case at all. I find that
> >> if I trim for hands-off, and set the autopilot, it stays pretty
> >> much 99.9% of the time until descent with no out-of-trim
> >> indication. Very occasionally I get it, but so rare that maybe
> >> enroute cruise I've only seen the indicator a dozen or 20 times in
> >> 650+ hours. It does come on during descents sometimes though if I
> >> don't re-trim.
> >>
> >> Do you have safety-trim or some other speed control system that
> >> allows you to get the trim real precise? Maybe for some reason your
> >> AP servo's sensors are extra sensitive?
> >>
> >> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive
> >>
> >>
> >> On 9/19/2010 9:19 PM, DLM wrote:
> >>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "DLM"<dlm46007@cox.net>
> >>>
> >>> The autopilot is very sensitive; I can manually trim so that the
> >>> electronic trim wheel disappears but shortly thereafter it
> >>> reappears due apparently to slight pitching of the aircraft.
> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson"<Tim@MyRV10.com>
> >>> To:<rv10-list@matronics.com> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010
> >>> 3:10 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: performance
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson<Tim@myrv10.com>
> >>>>
> >>>> Your autopilot was out of trim...did you notice it when you
> >>>> were flying? Looks like a good cruise though.
> >>>>
> >>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 9/19/2010 2:09 PM, DLM wrote:
> >>>>> Just a few pictures of the trip to the RNO races. Weight was
> >>>>> about 2300.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> & --> nbsp; ==============
========
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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|
Bruce,
Trutrak gives you an inflight procedure to tune all the internal settings.
Follow their directions and experiment a bit and it should fall in line.
Maybe someone else with a sorcerer can post their settings, but keep in mind
that would only be a starting point and from my experience every plane has
its own requirements.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Bruce Johnson <bruce1hwjohnson@yahoo.com>wrote:
> Howdy all!!! Got the 10 in the air for the second time Sat and for the most
> part, all is well. Had a issue with the Sorcererr though and was wondering
> if anybody else has been through this. I Turned on the AP and it felt like
> it was searching, especially altitude. It would start wanting to do anything
> except straight and level. Any Ideas???
>
> Bruce 151BJ
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com>
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Mon, September 20, 2010 6:25:14 AM
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: performance
>
>
> I could be wrong on the number...it's just off the top of my head.
> Basically, it's just something that I almost never see DURING the
> time I'm in cruise after I trim. I do have slow-speed trim,
> due to safety-trim, so generally when I trim I'm trimmed out
> so well that it would pretty much maintain altitude hands-off
> for a bit. With the fuel being real near CG, it doesn't change
> the trim too much during flight.
>
> The other factor is that very many of my trips end up being
> in still air. The RV-10 has allowed me to enjoy cruising at
> altitudes more comfortable than my old plane would like.
> At any rate, I very rarely see that indication, except for
> when I've started my descent and have to adjust power and
> speed. Heck, if I had said 50 times in 650 hours, it would
> still be a really low number...but I doubt I've seen
> it that many times in LEVEL flight in cruise. I differ
> from Dave Saylor in that personally, I don't find the need
> for auto-trim, because I don't mind re-trimming when I
> see the indication on descent under AP control. I don't
> think it would be a bad feature. I just have a personal
> hangup in trusting another device adding to the complexity.
> If it were free, I'd definitely have it, but it isn't
> super cheap from what I hear. (Never personally priced it though)
> But for money and trust, and since I've never felt it
> to be a big inconvenience, I don't have it. I have heard
> from at least 3 or 4 people who love auto-trim though, so
> I must say that those who like it have vocalized it.
> Those who haven't tried it probably won't miss it. I imagine
> if I had it, maybe I'd be one speaking in big support, too...
> ...it's tough though as so far the RV-10 is so nice to fly
> and I have so little workload, I can't see needing it to
> be any easier.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
> do not archive
>
>
> On 9/20/2010 6:03 AM, Jesse Saint wrote:
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: Jesse
> > Saint<jesse@saintaviation.com>
> >
> > I seem to see it a lot more in non-still air, of course, but I'd say
> > that in the 6 or 7 RV-10's that I've flown, I see it a whole lot more
> > than 20 times / 650 hours, but I don't see it every minute or two.
> > Again, it depends a lot on how still the air is. I imagine it also
> > makes a difference if you don't have the high-torque servo. I think
> > that shows out of trim a lot more than the high-torque one does.
> >
> > do not archive
> >
> > Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com C:
> > 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694
> >
> > On Sep 19, 2010, at 10:39 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
> >
> >> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson<Tim@myrv10.com>
> >>
> >> Interesting...I don't find that to be the case at all. I find that
> >> if I trim for hands-off, and set the autopilot, it stays pretty
> >> much 99.9% of the time until descent with no out-of-trim
> >> indication. Very occasionally I get it, but so rare that maybe
> >> enroute cruise I've only seen the indicator a dozen or 20 times in
> >> 650+ hours. It does come on during descents sometimes though if I
> >> don't re-trim.
> >>
> >> Do you have safety-trim or some other speed control system that
> >> allows you to get the trim real precise? Maybe for some reason your
> >> AP servo's sensors are extra sensitive?
> >>
> >> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive
> >>
> >>
> >> On 9/19/2010 9:19 PM, DLM wrote:
> >>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "DLM"<dlm46007@cox.net>
> >>>
> >>> The autopilot is very sensitive; I can manually trim so that the
> >>> electronic trim wheel disappears but shortly thereafter it
> >>> reappears due apparently to slight pitching of the aircraft.
> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson"<Tim@MyRV10.com>
> >>> To:<rv10-list@matronics.com> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010
> >>> 3:10 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: performance
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson<Tim@myrv10.com>
> >>>>
> >>>> Your autopilot was out of trim...did you notice it when you
> >>>> were flying? Looks like a good cruise though.
> >>>>
> >>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 9/19/2010 2:09 PM, DLM wrote:
> >>>>> Just a few pictures of the trip to the RNO races. Weight was
> >>>>> about 2300.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> & --> nbsp; ======================
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 17
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Thanks, have you had the chance to do these items?=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A__________
______________________=0AFrom: Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com>=0ATo:
rv10-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Mon, September 20, 2010 10:02:54 AM=0ASubje
ct: Re: RV10-List: performance=0A=0AYou need to adjust your torque, sensiti
vity and micro activity settings, most =0Alikely. =0A=0A=0Ado not archive
=0A=0A=0A=0AJesse Saint=0ASaint Aviation, Inc.=0Ajesse@saintaviation.com=0A
C: 352-427-0285=0AF: 815-377-3694 =0A=0AOn Sep 20, 2010, at 12:42 PM, Bruce
Johnson wrote:=0A=0AHowdy all!!! Got the 10 in the air for the second time
Sat and for the most =0Apart, all is well. Had a issue with the Sorcererr
though and was wondering if =0Aanybody else has been through this. I Turned
on the AP and it felt like it was =0Asearching, especially altitude. It wo
uld start wanting to do anything except =0Astraight and level. Any Ideas???
=0A>=0A>Bruce 151BJ--=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A_______________________________
_=0AFrom:-Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com>=0A>To:-rv10-list@matronics.com=0A>
Sent:-Mon, September 20, 2010 6:25:14 AM=0A>Subject:-Re: RV10-List: per
=0A>=0A>I could be wrong on the number...it's just off the top of my head.
=0A>Basically, it's just something that I almost never see DURING the=0A>ti
me I'm in cruise after I trim.- I do have slow-speed trim,=0A>due to safe
ty-trim, so generally when I trim I'm trimmed out=0A>so well that it would
pretty much maintain altitude hands-off=0A>for a bit.- With the fuel bein
g real near CG, it doesn't change=0A>the trim too much during flight.=0A>
=0A>The other factor is that very many of my trips end up being=0A>in still
air.- The RV-10 has allowed me to enjoy cruising at=0A>altitudes more co
mfortable than my old plane would like.=0A>At any rate, I very rarely see t
hat indication, except for=0A>when I've started my descent and have to adju
st power and=0A>speed.- Heck, if I had said 50 times in 650 hours, it wou
ld=0A>still be a really low number...but I doubt I've seen=0A>it that many
times in LEVEL flight in cruise.- I differ=0A>from Dave Saylor in that pe
rsonally, I don't find the need=0A>for auto-trim, because I don't mind re-t
rimming when I=0A>see the indication on descent under AP control.- I don'
t=0A>think it would be a bad feature.- I just have a personal=0A>hangup i
n trusting another device adding to the complexity.=0A>If it were free, I'd
definitely have it, but it isn't=0A>super cheap from what I hear. (Never p
ersonally priced it though)=0A>But for money and trust, and since I've neve
r felt it=0A>to be a big inconvenience, I don't have it.- I have heard=0A
>from at least 3 or 4 people who love auto-trim though, so=0A>I must say th
at those who like it have vocalized it.=0A>Those who haven't tried it proba
bly won't miss it.- I imagine=0A>if I had it, maybe I'd be one speaking i
n big support, too...=0A>...it's tough though as so far the RV-10 is so nic
e to fly=0A>and I have so little workload, I can't see needing it to=0A>be
any easier.=0A>=0A>Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD=0A>do not archive=0A>=0A>=0A>On
9/20/2010 6:03 AM, Jesse Saint wrote:=0A>> -->- RV10-List message posted
by: Jesse=0A>> Saint<jesse@saintaviation.com>=0A>>=0A>> I seem to see it a
lot more in non-still air, of course, but I'd say=0A>> that in the 6 or 7
RV-10's that I've flown, I see it a whole lot more=0A>> than 20 times / 650
hours, but I don't see it every minute or two.=0A>> Again, it depends a lo
t on how still the air is.- I imagine it also=0A>> makes a difference if
you don't have the high-torque servo.- I think=0A>> that shows out of tri
m a lot more than the high-torque one does.=0A>>=0A>> do not archive=0A>>
=0A>> Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc.-jesse@saintaviation.com-C:=0A>>
352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694=0A>>=0A>> On Sep 19, 2010, at 10:39 PM, Tim Ol
son wrote:=0A>>=0A>>> -->- RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson<Tim@myr
v10.com>=0A>>>=0A>>> Interesting...I don't find that to be the case at all.
I find that=0A>>> if I trim for hands-off, and set the autopilot, it stays
pretty=0A>>> much 99.9% of the time until descent with no out-of-trim=0A>>
> indication.- Very occasionally I get it, but so rare that maybe=0A>>> e
nroute cruise I've only seen the indicator a dozen or 20 times in=0A>>> 650
+ hours.- It does come on during descents sometimes though if I=0A>>> don
't re-trim.=0A>>>=0A>>> Do you have safety-trim or some other speed control
system that=0A>>> allows you to get the trim real precise? Maybe for some
reason your=0A>>> AP servo's sensors are extra sensitive?=0A>>>=0A>>> Tim O
lson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>> On 9/19/2010 9:19 PM,
DLM wrote:=0A>>>> -->- RV10-List message posted by: "DLM"<dlm46007@cox.ne
t>=0A>>>>=0A>>>> The autopilot is very sensitive; I can manually trim so th
at the=0A>>>> electronic trim wheel disappears but shortly thereafter it=0A
>>>> reappears due apparently to slight pitching of the aircraft.=0A>>>> --
--- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson"<Tim@MyRV10.com>=0A>>>> To:<rv1
0-list@matronics.com> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010=0A>>>> 3:10 PM Subje
ct: Re: RV10-List: performance=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>> -->- RV10-List messa
ge posted by: Tim Olson<Tim@myrv10.com>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>> Your autopilot was
out of trim...did you notice it when you=0A>>>>> were flying? Looks like a
good cruise though.=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive
=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>> On 9/19/2010 2:09 PM, DLM wrote:=0A>>>>>> Just a f
ew pictures of the trip to the RNO races. Weight was=0A>>>>>> about 2300.
=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>&- --> nbsp; - - - -
- - - - - -=================
=======0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> =0A>href="http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhref
="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com=0A>href="ht
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=================== =0A=0A=0A=0A
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Doors and body work |
Jae, I too used electrical tape for some window masking. Not sure
what you refer to as "Blue painters" and "masking" tapes but if you mean
the paper type tapes, yes, agreed that the electrical tape works great
for corners and stuff.
What I subsequently found out was that 1/2" blue 3M plastic tape #471 is
better than plain electrical tape. One difference is that the #471
doesn't stretch like electrical tape (a desirable characteristic for
electrical work). It stretches just enough to go around corners but not
enough to distort and subsequently pull away. By not stretching so
much, I found that lays down a straighter line and that it won't pull
off from the corners as the electrical tape tends to do if you stretch
around corners. 1/2" works much better than 3/4" when going around
corners and is the only size I'm using.
For gross masking, I'd suggest the product 1-up from seems to be sold as
blue painters tape. I've been using Scotch 233+ with 1.5" having the
most utility. It's a light green. The adhesive is better and it's just
clearly better stuff. They seem to have a blue and some other line 1 up
from the green too. I'll probably learn the hard way when and where the
1-up from green is needed. At this point, I"m just up to high fill
primer on the glass and interior paint.
For you first time painters, the best thing you can do is find a local
paint distributor and ask a lot of questions and buy all your stuff
there. Prices are better than Home Depot and they sell key stuff in
large sizes like rolls of adhesive sandpaper and big cheap rolls of
cheap-good-excellent quality masking papers. Somebody in there is
probably real knowledgeable and might get a kick out of your project.
On 9/20/2010 12:09 PM, Jae Chang wrote:
> Hahaha, I absolutely agree with both Les and Bob.
>
> Bob, you forgot to put up a warning, "This post could cause you
> countless more hours of work."
>
> I am on a parallel track and glad to see similar things from someone
> else. My door frame looked similar to yours after trimming for
> mcmaster seals. Especially along the forward edge, near that elbow
> bend, I was worried about making it too thin, but I see you had the
> same experience.
>
> I wish I had known about the wonderful qualities of using electrical
> tape for masking work earlier. It easily bends around corners and
> won't tear, which both masking tape and blue painters tape will not do
> easily.
>
> Still on the fence about doing the door edge work. Wish I had bought
> some extra door seal material.
>
> Jae
> 40533
>
>
Message 19
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Make sure you have the pitot and static lines hooked up correctly. It
they
are backwards it will act as you have described.
Geoff
Geoff Combs
President
Aerosport Modeling & Design
8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
614-834-5227p
614-834-5230f
www.aerosportmodeling.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Johnson
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: performance
Howdy all!!! Got the 10 in the air for the second time Sat and for the
most
part, all is well. Had a issue with the Sorcererr though and was
wondering
if anybody else has been through this. I Turned on the AP and it felt
like
it was searching, especially altitude. It would start wanting to do
anything
except straight and level. Any Ideas???
Bruce 151BJ
_____
From: Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com>
Sent: Mon, September 20, 2010 6:25:14 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: performance
I could be wrong on the number...it's just off the top of my head.
Basically, it's just something that I almost never see DURING the
time I'm in cruise after I trim. I do have slow-speed trim,
due to safety-trim, so generally when I trim I'm trimmed out
so well that it would pretty much maintain altitude hands-off
for a bit. With the fuel being real near CG, it doesn't change
the trim too much during flight.
The other factor is that very many of my trips end up being
in still air. The RV-10 has allowed me to enjoy cruising at
altitudes more comfortable than my old plane would like.
At any rate, I very rarely see that indication, except for
when I've started my descent and have to adjust power and
speed. Heck, if I had said 50 times in 650 hours, it would
still be a really low number...but I doubt I've seen
it that many times in LEVEL flight in cruise. I differ
from Dave Saylor in that personally, I don't find the need
for auto-trim, because I don't mind re-trimming when I
see the indication on descent under AP control. I don't
think it would be a bad feature. I just have a personal
hangup in trusting another device adding to the complexity.
If it were free, I'd definitely have it, but it isn't
super cheap from what I hear. (Never personally priced it though)
But for money and trust, and since I've never felt it
to be a big inconvenience, I don't have it. I have heard
from at least 3 or 4 people who love auto-trim though, so
I must say that those who like it have vocalized it.
Those who haven't tried it probably won't miss it. I imagine
if I had it, maybe I'd be one speaking in big support, too...
...it's tough though as so far the RV-10 is so nice to fly
and I have so little workload, I can't see needing it to
be any easier.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
On 9/20/2010 6:03 AM, Jesse Saint wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Jesse
> Saint<jesse@saintaviation.com>
>
> I seem to see it a lot more in non-still air, of course, but I'd say
> that in the 6 or 7 RV-10's that I've flown, I see it a whole lot more
> than 20 times / 650 hours, but I don't see it every minute or two.
> Again, it depends a lot on how still the air is. I imagine it also
> makes a difference if you don't have the high-torque servo. I think
> that shows out of trim a lot more than the high-torque one does.
>
> do not archive
>
> Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com C:
> 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694
>
> On Sep 19, 2010, at 10:39 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson<Tim@myrv10.com>
>>
>> Interesting...I don't find that to be the case at all. I find that
>> if I trim for hands-off, and set the autopilot, it stays pretty
>> much 99.9% of the time until descent with no out-of-trim
>> indication. Very occasionally I get it, but so rare that maybe
>> enroute cruise I've only seen the indicator a dozen or 20 times in
>> 650+ hours. It does come on during descents sometimes though if I
>> don't re-trim.
>>
>> Do you have safety-trim or some other speed control system that
>> allows you to get the trim real precise? Maybe for some reason your
>> AP servo's sensors are extra sensitive?
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive
>>
>>
>> On 9/19/2010 9:19 PM, DLM wrote:
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "DLM"<dlm46007@cox.net>
>>>
>>> The autopilot is very sensitive; I can manually trim so that the
>>> electronic trim wheel disappears but shortly thereafter it
>>> reappears due apparently to slight pitching of the aircraft.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson"<Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>> To:<rv10-list@matronics.com> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010
>>> 3:10 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: performance
>>>
>>>
>>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson<Tim@myrv10.com>
>>>>
>>>> Your autopilot was out of trim...did you notice it when you
>>>> were flying? Looks like a good cruise though.
>>>>
>>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9/19/2010 2:09 PM, DLM wrote:
>>>>> Just a few pictures of the trip to the RNO races. Weight was
>>>>> about 2300.
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
& --> nbsp;
======================
Message 20
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I have flown without the auto trim and with. And I have to say that it was
well worth the money. It was easy to install and works great. The aircraft
is always in trim and never seem to have any trim issues when turning off
the AP. That being said is it necessary no. But it is worth the money yes. I
do think the price was recently reduced for them as well.
Geoff
Geoff Combs
President
Aerosport Modeling & Design
8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
614-834-5227p
614-834-5230f
www.aerosportmodeling.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: performance
I could be wrong on the number...it's just off the top of my head.
Basically, it's just something that I almost never see DURING the time I'm
in cruise after I trim. I do have slow-speed trim, due to safety-trim, so
generally when I trim I'm trimmed out so well that it would pretty much
maintain altitude hands-off for a bit. With the fuel being real near CG, it
doesn't change the trim too much during flight.
The other factor is that very many of my trips end up being
in still air. The RV-10 has allowed me to enjoy cruising at altitudes more
comfortable than my old plane would like. At any rate, I very rarely see
that indication, except for when I've started my descent and have to adjust
power and speed. Heck, if I had said 50 times in 650 hours, it would still
be a really low number...but I doubt I've seen it that many times in LEVEL
flight in cruise. I differ from Dave Saylor in that personally, I don't
find the need for auto-trim, because I don't mind re-trimming when I see the
indication on descent under AP control. I don't think it would be a bad
feature. I just have a personal hangup in trusting another device adding to
the complexity. If it were free, I'd definitely have it, but it isn't super
cheap from what I hear. (Never personally priced it though) But for money
and trust, and since I've never felt it to be a big inconvenience, I don't
have it. I have heard from at least 3 or 4 people who love auto-trim
though, so I must say that those who like it have vocalized it. Those who
haven't tried it probably won't miss it. I imagine if I had it, maybe I'd
be one speaking in big support, too... ...it's tough though as so far the
RV-10 is so nice to fly and I have so little workload, I can't see needing
it to be any easier.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
On 9/20/2010 6:03 AM, Jesse Saint wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Jesse
> Saint<jesse@saintaviation.com>
>
> I seem to see it a lot more in non-still air, of course, but I'd say
> that in the 6 or 7 RV-10's that I've flown, I see it a whole lot more
> than 20 times / 650 hours, but I don't see it every minute or two.
> Again, it depends a lot on how still the air is. I imagine it also
> makes a difference if you don't have the high-torque servo. I think
> that shows out of trim a lot more than the high-torque one does.
>
> do not archive
>
> Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com C:
> 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694
>
> On Sep 19, 2010, at 10:39 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson<Tim@myrv10.com>
>>
>> Interesting...I don't find that to be the case at all. I find that if
>> I trim for hands-off, and set the autopilot, it stays pretty much
>> 99.9% of the time until descent with no out-of-trim indication. Very
>> occasionally I get it, but so rare that maybe enroute cruise I've
>> only seen the indicator a dozen or 20 times in
>> 650+ hours. It does come on during descents sometimes though if I
>> don't re-trim.
>>
>> Do you have safety-trim or some other speed control system that
>> allows you to get the trim real precise? Maybe for some reason your
>> AP servo's sensors are extra sensitive?
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive
>>
>>
>> On 9/19/2010 9:19 PM, DLM wrote:
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "DLM"<dlm46007@cox.net>
>>>
>>> The autopilot is very sensitive; I can manually trim so that the
>>> electronic trim wheel disappears but shortly thereafter it reappears
>>> due apparently to slight pitching of the aircraft.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson"<Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>> To:<rv10-list@matronics.com> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 3:10
>>> PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: performance
>>>
>>>
>>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson<Tim@myrv10.com>
>>>>
>>>> Your autopilot was out of trim...did you notice it when you were
>>>> flying? Looks like a good cruise though.
>>>>
>>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9/19/2010 2:09 PM, DLM wrote:
>>>>> Just a few pictures of the trip to the RNO races. Weight was about
>>>>> 2300.
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Trutrak Digiflite VSGV |
I checked with TT and the trim wheel on their screen, while looking like
the manual trim wheel in other aircraft, works just the opposite. That
is if the TT wheel moves from top to bottom, down trim is required.
using manual trim the required movement for down trim is to roll the
wheel from bottom to top. Versteh?
Message 22
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I'll try to write down my settings later today and send them to you.
I'm flying a Sorcerer for 1.5 hrs this evening. I'll let you know if I
have a chance to write them down.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
On Sep 20, 2010, at 1:31 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote:
> Thanks, have you had the chance to do these items?
>
> From: Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Mon, September 20, 2010 10:02:54 AM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: performance
>
> You need to adjust your torque, sensitivity and micro activity
settings, most likely.
>
> do not archive
>
> Jesse Saint
> Saint Aviation, Inc.
> jesse@saintaviation.com
> C: 352-427-0285
> F: 815-377-3694
>
> On Sep 20, 2010, at 12:42 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote:
>
>> Howdy all!!! Got the 10 in the air for the second time Sat and for
the most part, all is well. Had a issue with the Sorcererr though and
was wondering if anybody else has been through this. I Turned on the AP
and it felt like it was searching, especially altitude. It would start
wanting to do anything except straight and level. Any Ideas???
>>
>> Bruce 151BJ
>>
>> From: Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com>
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Mon, September 20, 2010 6:25:14 AM
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: performance
>>
>>
>> I could be wrong on the number...it's just off the top of my head.
>> Basically, it's just something that I almost never see DURING the
>> time I'm in cruise after I trim. I do have slow-speed trim,
>> due to safety-trim, so generally when I trim I'm trimmed out
>> so well that it would pretty much maintain altitude hands-off
>> for a bit. With the fuel being real near CG, it doesn't change
>> the trim too much during flight.
>>
>> The other factor is that very many of my trips end up being
>> in still air. The RV-10 has allowed me to enjoy cruising at
>> altitudes more comfortable than my old plane would like.
>> At any rate, I very rarely see that indication, except for
>> when I've started my descent and have to adjust power and
>> speed. Heck, if I had said 50 times in 650 hours, it would
>> still be a really low number...but I doubt I've seen
>> it that many times in LEVEL flight in cruise. I differ
>> from Dave Saylor in that personally, I don't find the need
>> for auto-trim, because I don't mind re-trimming when I
>> see the indication on descent under AP control. I don't
>> think it would be a bad feature. I just have a personal
>> hangup in trusting another device adding to the complexity.
>> If it were free, I'd definitely have it, but it isn't
>> super cheap from what I hear. (Never personally priced it though)
>> But for money and trust, and since I've never felt it
>> to be a big inconvenience, I don't have it. I have heard
>> from at least 3 or 4 people who love auto-trim though, so
>> I must say that those who like it have vocalized it.
>> Those who haven't tried it probably won't miss it. I imagine
>> if I had it, maybe I'd be one speaking in big support, too...
>> ...it's tough though as so far the RV-10 is so nice to fly
>> and I have so little workload, I can't see needing it to
>> be any easier.
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> On 9/20/2010 6:03 AM, Jesse Saint wrote:
>> > --> RV10-List message posted by: Jesse
>> > Saint<jesse@saintaviation.com>
>> >
>> > I seem to see it a lot more in non-still air, of course, but I'd
say
>> > that in the 6 or 7 RV-10's that I've flown, I see it a whole lot
more
>> > than 20 times / 650 hours, but I don't see it every minute or two.
>> > Again, it depends a lot on how still the air is. I imagine it also
>> > makes a difference if you don't have the high-torque servo. I
think
>> > that shows out of trim a lot more than the high-torque one does.
>> >
>> > do not archive
>> >
>> > Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com C:
>> > 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694
>> >
>> > On Sep 19, 2010, at 10:39 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>> >
>> >> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson<Tim@myrv10.com>
>> >>
>> >> Interesting...I don't find that to be the case at all. I find that
>> >> if I trim for hands-off, and set the autopilot, it stays pretty
>> >> much 99.9% of the time until descent with no out-of-trim
>> >> indication. Very occasionally I get it, but so rare that maybe
>> >> enroute cruise I've only seen the indicator a dozen or 20 times in
>> >> 650+ hours. It does come on during descents sometimes though if I
>> >> don't re-trim.
>> >>
>> >> Do you have safety-trim or some other speed control system that
>> >> allows you to get the trim real precise? Maybe for some reason
your
>> >> AP servo's sensors are extra sensitive?
>> >>
>> >> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 9/19/2010 9:19 PM, DLM wrote:
>> >>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "DLM"<dlm46007@cox.net>
>> >>>
>> >>> The autopilot is very sensitive; I can manually trim so that the
>> >>> electronic trim wheel disappears but shortly thereafter it
>> >>> reappears due apparently to slight pitching of the aircraft.
>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson"<Tim@MyRV10.com>
>> >>> To:<rv10-list@matronics.com> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010
>> >>> 3:10 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: performance
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson<Tim@myrv10.com>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Your autopilot was out of trim...did you notice it when you
>> >>>> were flying? Looks like a good cruise though.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On 9/19/2010 2:09 PM, DLM wrote:
>> >>>>> Just a few pictures of the trip to the RNO races. Weight was
>> >>>>> about 2300.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> & --> nbsp; =============
=========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forum
s.matronics.com
>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution
>>
>>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listw.matronics.com/contribution"
target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.mat==========
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: masking tapes |
OK, I changed the subject line!
On 9/20/2010 1:49 PM, Bill Mauledriver Watson wrote:
> Jae, I too used electrical tape for some window masking. Not sure
> what you refer to as "Blue painters" and "masking" tapes but if you
> mean the paper type tapes, yes, agreed that the electrical tape works
> great for corners and stuff.
>
> What I subsequently found out was that 1/2" blue 3M plastic tape #471
> is better than plain electrical tape. One difference is that the #471
> doesn't stretch like electrical tape (a desirable characteristic for
> electrical work). It stretches just enough to go around corners but
> not enough to distort and subsequently pull away. By not stretching
> so much, I found that lays down a straighter line and that it won't
> pull off from the corners as the electrical tape tends to do if you
> stretch around corners. 1/2" works much better than 3/4" when going
> around corners and is the only size I'm using.
Also when you get to the painting stage, use the 3M fineline masking
tapes. Green is great for straight lines and light curves, blue is for
more radical curves. the stuff is expensive, but this is not the time
to scrimp. Urethane paints will bleed under the paper tape edge leaving
you with a lot of cleanup work. Lay the 3M tape down and rub with a
hard rubber squeegee. I use 1/2" green/blue mostly with 1/4" blue for
really sharp curves. I lay the masking paper next to the 3M tape and
tape with cheap blue paper tape. After spraying and waiting an hour or
so, I remove the masking paper and then remove the 3M fineline tape
being careful to pull the tape right back over itself. This way the
semi-soft paint will flow a little at the edge so you don't have a real
raised paint line.
Linn
Message 24
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|
Do you remember what the approximate price was?
Heck, if it's cheap enough, maybe it's my next
toy. :)
Tim
On 9/20/2010 1:06 PM, Geoff Combs wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Geoff Combs"<g.combs@aerosportmodeling.com>
>
> I have flown without the auto trim and with. And I have to say that it was
> well worth the money. It was easy to install and works great. The aircraft
> is always in trim and never seem to have any trim issues when turning off
> the AP. That being said is it necessary no. But it is worth the money yes. I
> do think the price was recently reduced for them as well.
>
> Geoff
>
> Geoff Combs
> President
> Aerosport Modeling& Design
> 8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
> Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
> 614-834-5227p
> 614-834-5230f
> www.aerosportmodeling.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 9:25 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: performance
>
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson<Tim@myrv10.com>
>
> I could be wrong on the number...it's just off the top of my head.
> Basically, it's just something that I almost never see DURING the time I'm
> in cruise after I trim. I do have slow-speed trim, due to safety-trim, so
> generally when I trim I'm trimmed out so well that it would pretty much
> maintain altitude hands-off for a bit. With the fuel being real near CG, it
> doesn't change the trim too much during flight.
>
> The other factor is that very many of my trips end up being
> in still air. The RV-10 has allowed me to enjoy cruising at altitudes more
> comfortable than my old plane would like. At any rate, I very rarely see
> that indication, except for when I've started my descent and have to adjust
> power and speed. Heck, if I had said 50 times in 650 hours, it would still
> be a really low number...but I doubt I've seen it that many times in LEVEL
> flight in cruise. I differ from Dave Saylor in that personally, I don't
> find the need for auto-trim, because I don't mind re-trimming when I see the
> indication on descent under AP control. I don't think it would be a bad
> feature. I just have a personal hangup in trusting another device adding to
> the complexity. If it were free, I'd definitely have it, but it isn't super
> cheap from what I hear. (Never personally priced it though) But for money
> and trust, and since I've never felt it to be a big inconvenience, I don't
> have it. I have heard from at least 3 or 4 people who love auto-trim
> though, so I must say that those who like it have vocalized it. Those who
> haven't tried it probably won't miss it. I imagine if I had it, maybe I'd
> be one speaking in big support, too... ...it's tough though as so far the
> RV-10 is so nice to fly and I have so little workload, I can't see needing
> it to be any easier.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
> do not archive
>
>
> On 9/20/2010 6:03 AM, Jesse Saint wrote:
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Jesse
>> Saint<jesse@saintaviation.com>
>>
>> I seem to see it a lot more in non-still air, of course, but I'd say
>> that in the 6 or 7 RV-10's that I've flown, I see it a whole lot more
>> than 20 times / 650 hours, but I don't see it every minute or two.
>> Again, it depends a lot on how still the air is. I imagine it also
>> makes a difference if you don't have the high-torque servo. I think
>> that shows out of trim a lot more than the high-torque one does.
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>> Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com C:
>> 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694
>>
>> On Sep 19, 2010, at 10:39 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>>
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson<Tim@myrv10.com>
>>>
>>> Interesting...I don't find that to be the case at all. I find that if
>>> I trim for hands-off, and set the autopilot, it stays pretty much
>>> 99.9% of the time until descent with no out-of-trim indication. Very
>>> occasionally I get it, but so rare that maybe enroute cruise I've
>>> only seen the indicator a dozen or 20 times in
>>> 650+ hours. It does come on during descents sometimes though if I
>>> don't re-trim.
>>>
>>> Do you have safety-trim or some other speed control system that
>>> allows you to get the trim real precise? Maybe for some reason your
>>> AP servo's sensors are extra sensitive?
>>>
>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/19/2010 9:19 PM, DLM wrote:
>>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "DLM"<dlm46007@cox.net>
>>>>
>>>> The autopilot is very sensitive; I can manually trim so that the
>>>> electronic trim wheel disappears but shortly thereafter it reappears
>>>> due apparently to slight pitching of the aircraft.
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson"<Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>>> To:<rv10-list@matronics.com> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 3:10
>>>> PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: performance
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson<Tim@myrv10.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> Your autopilot was out of trim...did you notice it when you were
>>>>> flying? Looks like a good cruise though.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9/19/2010 2:09 PM, DLM wrote:
>>>>>> Just a few pictures of the trip to the RNO races. Weight was about
>>>>>> 2300.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 25
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Tim they are 350.00 now.
Geoff
Geoff Combs
President
Aerosport Modeling & Design
8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
614-834-5227p
614-834-5230f
www.aerosportmodeling.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: performance
Do you remember what the approximate price was?
Heck, if it's cheap enough, maybe it's my next
toy. :)
Tim
On 9/20/2010 1:06 PM, Geoff Combs wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Geoff
> --> Combs"<g.combs@aerosportmodeling.com>
>
> I have flown without the auto trim and with. And I have to say that it
> was well worth the money. It was easy to install and works great. The
> aircraft is always in trim and never seem to have any trim issues when
> turning off the AP. That being said is it necessary no. But it is
> worth the money yes. I do think the price was recently reduced for
> them as well.
>
> Geoff
>
> Geoff Combs
> President
> Aerosport Modeling& Design
> 8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
> Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
> 614-834-5227p
> 614-834-5230f
> www.aerosportmodeling.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 9:25 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: performance
>
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson<Tim@myrv10.com>
>
> I could be wrong on the number...it's just off the top of my head.
> Basically, it's just something that I almost never see DURING the time
> I'm in cruise after I trim. I do have slow-speed trim, due to
> safety-trim, so generally when I trim I'm trimmed out so well that it
> would pretty much maintain altitude hands-off for a bit. With the
> fuel being real near CG, it doesn't change the trim too much during
> flight.
>
> The other factor is that very many of my trips end up being in still
> air. The RV-10 has allowed me to enjoy cruising at altitudes more
> comfortable than my old plane would like. At any rate, I very rarely
> see that indication, except for when I've started my descent and have
> to adjust power and speed. Heck, if I had said 50 times in 650 hours,
> it would still be a really low number...but I doubt I've seen it that
> many times in LEVEL flight in cruise. I differ from Dave Saylor in
> that personally, I don't find the need for auto-trim, because I don't
> mind re-trimming when I see the indication on descent under AP
> control. I don't think it would be a bad feature. I just have a
> personal hangup in trusting another device adding to the complexity.
> If it were free, I'd definitely have it, but it isn't super cheap from
> what I hear. (Never personally priced it though) But for money and
> trust, and since I've never felt it to be a big inconvenience, I don't
> have it. I have heard from at least 3 or 4 people who love auto-trim
> though, so I must say that those who like it have vocalized it. Those
> who haven't tried it probably won't miss it. I imagine if I had it,
> maybe I'd be one speaking in big support, too... ...it's tough though
> as so far the RV-10 is so nice to fly and I have so little workload, I
> can't see needing it to be any easier.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
> do not archive
>
>
> On 9/20/2010 6:03 AM, Jesse Saint wrote:
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Jesse
>> Saint<jesse@saintaviation.com>
>>
>> I seem to see it a lot more in non-still air, of course, but I'd say
>> that in the 6 or 7 RV-10's that I've flown, I see it a whole lot more
>> than 20 times / 650 hours, but I don't see it every minute or two.
>> Again, it depends a lot on how still the air is. I imagine it also
>> makes a difference if you don't have the high-torque servo. I think
>> that shows out of trim a lot more than the high-torque one does.
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>> Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com C:
>> 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694
>>
>> On Sep 19, 2010, at 10:39 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>>
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson<Tim@myrv10.com>
>>>
>>> Interesting...I don't find that to be the case at all. I find that
>>> if I trim for hands-off, and set the autopilot, it stays pretty much
>>> 99.9% of the time until descent with no out-of-trim indication.
>>> Very occasionally I get it, but so rare that maybe enroute cruise
>>> I've only seen the indicator a dozen or 20 times in
>>> 650+ hours. It does come on during descents sometimes though if I
>>> don't re-trim.
>>>
>>> Do you have safety-trim or some other speed control system that
>>> allows you to get the trim real precise? Maybe for some reason your
>>> AP servo's sensors are extra sensitive?
>>>
>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/19/2010 9:19 PM, DLM wrote:
>>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "DLM"<dlm46007@cox.net>
>>>>
>>>> The autopilot is very sensitive; I can manually trim so that the
>>>> electronic trim wheel disappears but shortly thereafter it
>>>> reappears due apparently to slight pitching of the aircraft.
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson"<Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>>> To:<rv10-list@matronics.com> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 3:10
>>>> PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: performance
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson<Tim@myrv10.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> Your autopilot was out of trim...did you notice it when you were
>>>>> flying? Looks like a good cruise though.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9/19/2010 2:09 PM, DLM wrote:
>>>>>> Just a few pictures of the trip to the RNO races. Weight was
>>>>>> about 2300.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 26
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|
Mine was behaving that way and I talked to Jim Younkin at Sun n Fun
two years ago. He knew right away what I was talking about. He had me
send the servo back in for some kind of adjustment and it has worked
fine since.
David MaIb
40559
Flying
On Sep 20, 2010, at 7:03 AM, Jesse Saint wrote:
I seem to see it a lot more in non-still air, of course, but I'd say
that in the 6 or 7 RV-10's that I've flown, I see it a whole lot more
than 20 times / 650 hours, but I don't see it every minute or two.
Again, it depends a lot on how still the air is. I imagine it also
makes a difference if you don't have the high-torque servo. I think
that shows out of trim a lot more than the high-torque one does.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
On Sep 19, 2010, at 10:39 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Interesting...I don't find that to be the case at all.
> I find that if I trim for hands-off, and set the autopilot,
> it stays pretty much 99.9% of the time until descent with
> no out-of-trim indication. Very occasionally I get it,
> but so rare that maybe enroute cruise I've only seen
> the indicator a dozen or 20 times in 650+ hours. It does
> come on during descents sometimes though if I don't
> re-trim.
>
> Do you have safety-trim or some other speed control
> system that allows you to get the trim real precise?
> Maybe for some reason your AP servo's sensors are
> extra sensitive?
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
> do not archive
>
>
> On 9/19/2010 9:19 PM, DLM wrote:
>>
>> The autopilot is very sensitive; I can manually trim so that the
>> electronic trim wheel disappears but shortly thereafter it
>> reappears due
>> apparently to slight pitching of the aircraft.
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 3:10 PM
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: performance
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Your autopilot was out of trim...did you notice it when you were
>>> flying? Looks like a good cruise though.
>>>
>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>>> do not archive
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/19/2010 2:09 PM, DLM wrote:
>>>> Just a few pictures of the trip to the RNO races. Weight was
>>>> about 2300.
>>>
>>>
>
>
Message 27
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|
Listed at $350 on their website...
http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com/products/Automatic_Trim.html
-Sean
On 9/20/10 2:13 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Do you remember what the approximate price was?
> Heck, if it's cheap enough, maybe it's my next
> toy. :)
> Tim
>
>
> On 9/20/2010 1:06 PM, Geoff Combs wrote:
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Geoff
>> Combs"<g.combs@aerosportmodeling.com>
>>
>> I have flown without the auto trim and with. And I have to say that
>> it was
>> well worth the money. It was easy to install and works great. The
>> aircraft
>> is always in trim and never seem to have any trim issues when turning
>> off
>> the AP. That being said is it necessary no. But it is worth the money
>> yes. I
>> do think the price was recently reduced for them as well.
>>
>> Geoff
>>
>> Geoff Combs
>> President
>> Aerosport Modeling& Design
>> 8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
>> Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
>> 614-834-5227p
>> 614-834-5230f
>> www.aerosportmodeling.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>> Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 9:25 AM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: performance
>>
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson<Tim@myrv10.com>
>>
>> I could be wrong on the number...it's just off the top of my head.
>> Basically, it's just something that I almost never see DURING the
>> time I'm
>> in cruise after I trim. I do have slow-speed trim, due to
>> safety-trim, so
>> generally when I trim I'm trimmed out so well that it would pretty much
>> maintain altitude hands-off for a bit. With the fuel being real near
>> CG, it
>> doesn't change the trim too much during flight.
>>
>> The other factor is that very many of my trips end up being
>> in still air. The RV-10 has allowed me to enjoy cruising at
>> altitudes more
>> comfortable than my old plane would like. At any rate, I very rarely see
>> that indication, except for when I've started my descent and have to
>> adjust
>> power and speed. Heck, if I had said 50 times in 650 hours, it would
>> still
>> be a really low number...but I doubt I've seen it that many times in
>> LEVEL
>> flight in cruise. I differ from Dave Saylor in that personally, I don't
>> find the need for auto-trim, because I don't mind re-trimming when I
>> see the
>> indication on descent under AP control. I don't think it would be a bad
>> feature. I just have a personal hangup in trusting another device
>> adding to
>> the complexity. If it were free, I'd definitely have it, but it isn't
>> super
>> cheap from what I hear. (Never personally priced it though) But for
>> money
>> and trust, and since I've never felt it to be a big inconvenience, I
>> don't
>> have it. I have heard from at least 3 or 4 people who love auto-trim
>> though, so I must say that those who like it have vocalized it. Those
>> who
>> haven't tried it probably won't miss it. I imagine if I had it,
>> maybe I'd
>> be one speaking in big support, too... ...it's tough though as so far
>> the
>> RV-10 is so nice to fly and I have so little workload, I can't see
>> needing
>> it to be any easier.
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> On 9/20/2010 6:03 AM, Jesse Saint wrote:
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Jesse
>>> Saint<jesse@saintaviation.com>
>>>
>>> I seem to see it a lot more in non-still air, of course, but I'd say
>>> that in the 6 or 7 RV-10's that I've flown, I see it a whole lot more
>>> than 20 times / 650 hours, but I don't see it every minute or two.
>>> Again, it depends a lot on how still the air is. I imagine it also
>>> makes a difference if you don't have the high-torque servo. I think
>>> that shows out of trim a lot more than the high-torque one does.
>>>
>>> do not archive
>>>
>>> Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com C:
>>> 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694
>>>
>>> On Sep 19, 2010, at 10:39 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>>>
>>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson<Tim@myrv10.com>
>>>>
>>>> Interesting...I don't find that to be the case at all. I find that if
>>>> I trim for hands-off, and set the autopilot, it stays pretty much
>>>> 99.9% of the time until descent with no out-of-trim indication. Very
>>>> occasionally I get it, but so rare that maybe enroute cruise I've
>>>> only seen the indicator a dozen or 20 times in
>>>> 650+ hours. It does come on during descents sometimes though if I
>>>> don't re-trim.
>>>>
>>>> Do you have safety-trim or some other speed control system that
>>>> allows you to get the trim real precise? Maybe for some reason your
>>>> AP servo's sensors are extra sensitive?
>>>>
>>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9/19/2010 9:19 PM, DLM wrote:
>>>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "DLM"<dlm46007@cox.net>
>>>>>
>>>>> The autopilot is very sensitive; I can manually trim so that the
>>>>> electronic trim wheel disappears but shortly thereafter it reappears
>>>>> due apparently to slight pitching of the aircraft.
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson"<Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>>>> To:<rv10-list@matronics.com> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 3:10
>>>>> PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: performance
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson<Tim@myrv10.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your autopilot was out of trim...did you notice it when you were
>>>>>> flying? Looks like a good cruise though.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/19/2010 2:09 PM, DLM wrote:
>>>>>>> Just a few pictures of the trip to the RNO races. Weight was about
>>>>>>> 2300.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 28
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Man, i now think I was mistaking the price for the yaw dampner. For that kind
of cost I can see doing it for sure.
Tim
On Sep 20, 2010, at 3:28 PM, "Geoff Combs" <g.combs@aerosportmodeling.com> wrote:
>
> Tim they are 350.00 now.
>
> Geoff
>
> Geoff Combs
> President
> Aerosport Modeling & Design
> 8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
> Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
> 614-834-5227p
> 614-834-5230f
> www.aerosportmodeling.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 3:14 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: performance
>
>
>
> Do you remember what the approximate price was?
> Heck, if it's cheap enough, maybe it's my next
> toy. :)
> Tim
>
>
>
> On 9/20/2010 1:06 PM, Geoff Combs wrote:
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Geoff
>> --> Combs"<g.combs@aerosportmodeling.com>
>>
>> I have flown without the auto trim and with. And I have to say that it
>> was well worth the money. It was easy to install and works great. The
>> aircraft is always in trim and never seem to have any trim issues when
>> turning off the AP. That being said is it necessary no. But it is
>> worth the money yes. I do think the price was recently reduced for
>> them as well.
>>
>> Geoff
>>
>> Geoff Combs
>> President
>> Aerosport Modeling& Design
>> 8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
>> Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
>> 614-834-5227p
>> 614-834-5230f
>> www.aerosportmodeling.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>> Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 9:25 AM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: performance
>>
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson<Tim@myrv10.com>
>>
>> I could be wrong on the number...it's just off the top of my head.
>> Basically, it's just something that I almost never see DURING the time
>> I'm in cruise after I trim. I do have slow-speed trim, due to
>> safety-trim, so generally when I trim I'm trimmed out so well that it
>> would pretty much maintain altitude hands-off for a bit. With the
>> fuel being real near CG, it doesn't change the trim too much during
>> flight.
>>
>> The other factor is that very many of my trips end up being in still
>> air. The RV-10 has allowed me to enjoy cruising at altitudes more
>> comfortable than my old plane would like. At any rate, I very rarely
>> see that indication, except for when I've started my descent and have
>> to adjust power and speed. Heck, if I had said 50 times in 650 hours,
>> it would still be a really low number...but I doubt I've seen it that
>> many times in LEVEL flight in cruise. I differ from Dave Saylor in
>> that personally, I don't find the need for auto-trim, because I don't
>> mind re-trimming when I see the indication on descent under AP
>> control. I don't think it would be a bad feature. I just have a
>> personal hangup in trusting another device adding to the complexity.
>> If it were free, I'd definitely have it, but it isn't super cheap from
>> what I hear. (Never personally priced it though) But for money and
>> trust, and since I've never felt it to be a big inconvenience, I don't
>> have it. I have heard from at least 3 or 4 people who love auto-trim
>> though, so I must say that those who like it have vocalized it. Those
>> who haven't tried it probably won't miss it. I imagine if I had it,
>> maybe I'd be one speaking in big support, too... ...it's tough though
>> as so far the RV-10 is so nice to fly and I have so little workload, I
>> can't see needing it to be any easier.
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> On 9/20/2010 6:03 AM, Jesse Saint wrote:
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Jesse
>>> Saint<jesse@saintaviation.com>
>>>
>>> I seem to see it a lot more in non-still air, of course, but I'd say
>>> that in the 6 or 7 RV-10's that I've flown, I see it a whole lot more
>>> than 20 times / 650 hours, but I don't see it every minute or two.
>>> Again, it depends a lot on how still the air is. I imagine it also
>>> makes a difference if you don't have the high-torque servo. I think
>>> that shows out of trim a lot more than the high-torque one does.
>>>
>>> do not archive
>>>
>>> Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com C:
>>> 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694
>>>
>>> On Sep 19, 2010, at 10:39 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>>>
>>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson<Tim@myrv10.com>
>>>>
>>>> Interesting...I don't find that to be the case at all. I find that
>>>> if I trim for hands-off, and set the autopilot, it stays pretty much
>>>> 99.9% of the time until descent with no out-of-trim indication.
>>>> Very occasionally I get it, but so rare that maybe enroute cruise
>>>> I've only seen the indicator a dozen or 20 times in
>>>> 650+ hours. It does come on during descents sometimes though if I
>>>> don't re-trim.
>>>>
>>>> Do you have safety-trim or some other speed control system that
>>>> allows you to get the trim real precise? Maybe for some reason your
>>>> AP servo's sensors are extra sensitive?
>>>>
>>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9/19/2010 9:19 PM, DLM wrote:
>>>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "DLM"<dlm46007@cox.net>
>>>>>
>>>>> The autopilot is very sensitive; I can manually trim so that the
>>>>> electronic trim wheel disappears but shortly thereafter it
>>>>> reappears due apparently to slight pitching of the aircraft.
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson"<Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>>>> To:<rv10-list@matronics.com> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 3:10
>>>>> PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: performance
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson<Tim@myrv10.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your autopilot was out of trim...did you notice it when you were
>>>>>> flying? Looks like a good cruise though.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/19/2010 2:09 PM, DLM wrote:
>>>>>>> Just a few pictures of the trip to the RNO races. Weight was
>>>>>>> about 2300.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Doors and body work |
Bob can you share the product info on the foam you used? Not familiar with
the X-30 reference. Thank you!
From: rnewman@tcwtech.com
Subject: RE. RV10-List: Doors and body work
Patrick=2C
1) Regarding the order of events having to do with the panel and the canopy
. I'd say with a 1000 airplanes under construction=2C you'll get 1000 ans
wers. Here's what I did in order: 1- All work on inside top surface of
canopy including fit-up to fuse 2- Built and finished overhead plenum with
canopy off plane including install of rear windows. 3- Installed canopy o
n plane then fit doors. 4- completed all wiring and panel and built my gl
are shield-defroster plenum detail. 5- Installed windscreen=2C built fair
ing=2C doing body work on whole canopy-windscreen-doors as a big single ass
embly.
2) Regarding the piping around the instrument panel. This is part of my
defroster plenum/ instrument panel detail that I laid up out of fiberglass.
It does three things: deflects defrost air from cooling fans right onto
the windscreen=2C hides the hand holds cut into fuse that I don't like and
hides the two computer fans that draw warm air out of instrument panel are
a=2C and three=2C provides a nice rounded finished edge to frame out the p
anel. You can see the progression of construction in the following album:
http://picasaweb.google.com/rcnewman64/GlareShieldWindshield#
3) Regarding material used on interior. 1) Filled in voids in interior ca
nopy that I didn't like with X-30 expanding foam and then reshaped the way
I liked it. 2) laid up a couple layers of light weight cloth over foam. 3
) West system epoxy with a progression of fillers=2C primarily 407 and 410
filler. 4) Final detail filling with Super-Fil 5) a ridiculous amount
of sanding all along 6) UV super prime -filler sprayed on with a true H
VLP gun with a 1.8 tip 7) more sanding and now ready for final paint.
(I'm using the same process on the exterior=2C except no need for any fill
ing with foam as in step 1) see: http://picasaweb.google.com/rcnewman64/
OverheadConsole02# and http://picasaweb.google.com/rcnewman64/Fiberglas
sWork02# for the photos
Bob Newman
----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick Pulis
Sent: Sunday=2C September 19=2C 2010 11:48 PM
Subject: ***SPAM*** Re: RV10-List: Doors and body work
Bob=2C many thanks for the insight=2C you a saint my friend for us 'fibregl
ass virgins'.
Could you please assist me with a few questions:
1. I am yet to decide on my panel=2C I have purchased Geoff's carbon fib
re panel and will be ultimately installing that=2C how far can I progress (
canopy and front windscreen installation) without completing the entire pan
el?
2. Could you please tell me how you did the 'piping' around the instrume
nt panel coaming and edges?
3. What did you apply to the interior to achieve that smooth result?
Many thanks from downunder.
Patrick Pulis
Adelaide=2C South Australia
From: bob-tcw <rnewman@tcwtech.com>
Sent: Mon=2C 20 September=2C 2010 10:31:46 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Doors and body work
Fellow builders=2C
There's been a lot of talk lately regarding doors and seals so I thought
I'd offer up my progress ( and photos) . Two albums on the subject liste
d below.
Some observations along the way:
1) Regarding the door seals: I went the McMaster route=2C however=2C wh
en I got done trimming the door jambs back to the proper depth to allow for
the bulb on the seal=2C I went one step further. The door jamb profile d
oesn't naturally match the U shaped profile of the seal=2C so the seal woul
d be prone to slipping off without some type of adhesive. I decided to us
e a scrap piece of the seal profile as a mould to add a filler/epoxy profil
e back to the door jamb that exactly matches the door seal. I took a 2 fo
ot section of door seal and injected a mix of west system epoxy and structu
ral filler=2C (used the cake decorator bag trick to fill the U shaped prof
ile) then installed the seal section on the door jamb and let it set- up.
Remove the seal and repeat 6 more times around the door jamb until the who
le thing has the exact mating profile to the seal. Now the little retain
ing tang inside the U shaped seal channel has something to grab hold of and
the door seals hold onto the door jamb very well.
2) Regarding filling and sanding around the windows: The electrical tape
technique for masking off the windows works great=2C however I found with
black electrical tape it was very hard during the sanding process to distin
guish between the tape and the filler. I switched to orange electrical t
ape=2C a huge improvement!. As I'd sand the filler down to the tape the
color of the tape line would really stand out providing much better guidanc
e in terms of sanding depth onto to the tape.
3) Regarding vacuuming up the filler dust: Whilst all this sanding and
filling is going on I found that when I would clean up the plane with the s
hop vac I'd develop an enormous static charge on the plane=2C then when I t
ouched it=2C wham! the mother of static shocks would almost knock me down.
Solution=2C I grounded the plane!. Problem solved. I just took an ex
tension cord with a metal box on the end and laid it in the tail of the pla
ne. All better.
http://picasaweb.google.com/rcnewman64/BodyWork#
http://picasaweb.google.com/rcnewman64/DoorsLatchesSeals#
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies=2C LLC
www.tcwtech.com
builder #40176 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List" rel
=nofollow rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contrib
ution ===========
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Doors and body work |
X-30 foam can be found at the following aircraft spruce link:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/x30foam.php
Its a two part high density expanding foam that sands really nicely once
cured.
-Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: Roxanne and Mike Lefever
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 6:34 PM
Subject: ***SPAM*** RE: RE. RV10-List: Doors and body work
Bob can you share the product info on the foam you used? Not familiar
with the X-30 reference. Thank you!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: rnewman@tcwtech.com
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE. RV10-List: Doors and body work
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 12:29:51 -0400
Patrick,
1) Regarding the order of events having to do with the panel and the
canopy. I'd say with a 1000 airplanes under construction, you'll get
1000 answers. Here's what I did in order: 1- All work on inside top
surface of canopy including fit-up to fuse 2- Built and finished
overhead plenum with canopy off plane including install of rear windows.
3- Installed canopy on plane then fit doors. 4- completed all wiring
and panel and built my glare shield-defroster plenum detail. 5-
Installed windscreen, built fairing, doing body work on whole
canopy-windscreen-doors as a big single assembly.
2) Regarding the piping around the instrument panel. This is part
of my defroster plenum/ instrument panel detail that I laid up out of
fiberglass. It does three things: deflects defrost air from cooling
fans right onto the windscreen, hides the hand holds cut into fuse that
I don't like and hides the two computer fans that draw warm air out of
instrument panel area, and three, provides a nice rounded finished edge
to frame out the panel. You can see the progression of construction in
the following album:
http://picasaweb.google.com/rcnewman64/GlareShieldWindshield#
3) Regarding material used on interior. 1) Filled in voids in
interior canopy that I didn't like with X-30 expanding foam and then
reshaped the way I liked it. 2) laid up a couple layers of light weight
cloth over foam. 3) West system epoxy with a progression of fillers,
primarily 407 and 410 filler. 4) Final detail filling with Super-Fil
5) a ridiculous amount of sanding all along 6) UV super prime
-filler sprayed on with a true HVLP gun with a 1.8 tip 7) more
sanding and now ready for final paint. (I'm using the same process on
the exterior, except no need for any filling with foam as in step 1)
see: http://picasaweb.google.com/rcnewman64/OverheadConsole02# and
http://picasaweb.google.com/rcnewman64/FiberglassWork02# for the
photos
Bob Newman
----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick Pulis
To: rnewman@tcwtech.com
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 11:48 PM
Subject: ***SPAM*** Re: RV10-List: Doors and body work
Bob, many thanks for the insight, you a saint my friend for us
'fibreglass virgins'.
Could you please assist me with a few questions:
1. I am yet to decide on my panel, I have purchased Geoff's
carbon fibre panel and will be ultimately installing that, how far can I
progress (canopy and front windscreen installation) without completing
the entire panel?
2. Could you please tell me how you did the 'piping' around the
instrument panel coaming and edges?
3. What did you apply to the interior to achieve that smooth
result?
Many thanks from downunder.
Patrick Pulis
Adelaide, South Australia
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: bob-tcw <rnewman@tcwtech.com>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Mon, 20 September, 2010 10:31:46 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Doors and body work
Fellow builders,
There's been a lot of talk lately regarding doors and seals so I
thought I'd offer up my progress ( and photos) . Two albums on the
subject listed below.
Some observations along the way:
1) Regarding the door seals: I went the McMaster route, however,
when I got done trimming the door jambs back to the proper depth to
allow for the bulb on the seal, I went one step further. The door jamb
profile doesn't naturally match the U shaped profile of the seal, so the
seal would be prone to slipping off without some type of adhesive. I
decided to use a scrap piece of the seal profile as a mould to add a
filler/epoxy profile back to the door jamb that exactly matches the door
seal. I took a 2 foot section of door seal and injected a mix of west
system epoxy and structural filler, (used the cake decorator bag trick
to fill the U shaped profile) then installed the seal section on the
door jamb and let it set- up. Remove the seal and repeat 6 more times
around the door jamb until the whole thing has the exact mating profile
to the seal. Now the little retaining tang inside the U shaped seal
channel has something to grab hold of and the door seals hold onto the
door jamb very well.
2) Regarding filling and sanding around the windows: The
electrical tape technique for masking off the windows works great,
however I found with black electrical tape it was very hard during the
sanding process to distinguish between the tape and the filler. I
switched to orange electrical tape, a huge improvement!. As I'd sand
the filler down to the tape the color of the tape line would really
stand out providing much better guidance in terms of sanding depth onto
to the tape.
3) Regarding vacuuming up the filler dust: Whilst all this
sanding and filling is going on I found that when I would clean up the
plane with the shop vac I'd develop an enormous static charge on the
plane, then when I touched it, wham! the mother of static shocks would
almost knock me down. Solution, I grounded the plane!. Problem
solved. I just took an extension cord with a metal box on the end and
laid it in the tail of the plane. All better.
http://picasaweb.google.com/rcnewman64/BodyWork#
http://picasaweb.google.com/rcnewman64/DoorsLatchesSeals#
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies, LLC
www.tcwtech.com
builder #40176
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List" rel=nofollow
rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 31
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|
Wow, the first one I bought was about $900 and seemed a bit steep until we
flew it and it then it seemed worth every penny.
Then they dropped to about $625. That's what I thought the current price
was.
$350 is definitely a good deal.
What I like most is that during any kind of complicated approach it removes
a workload item--I need all the help I can get. And like Geoff said, it's
practically always in trim when you turn the AP off.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 1:52 PM, Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com> wrote:
>
> Man, i now think I was mistaking the price for the yaw dampner. For that
> kind of cost I can see doing it for sure.
> Tim
>
>
> On Sep 20, 2010, at 3:28 PM, "Geoff Combs" <g.combs@aerosportmodeling.com>
> wrote:
>
> g.combs@aerosportmodeling.com>
> >
> > Tim they are 350.00 now.
> >
> > Geoff
> >
> > Geoff Combs
> > President
> > Aerosport Modeling & Design
> > 8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
> > Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
> > 614-834-5227p
> > 614-834-5230f
> > www.aerosportmodeling.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> > Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 3:14 PM
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: performance
> >
> >
> >
> > Do you remember what the approximate price was?
> > Heck, if it's cheap enough, maybe it's my next
> > toy. :)
> > Tim
> >
> >
> >
> > On 9/20/2010 1:06 PM, Geoff Combs wrote:
> >> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Geoff
> >> --> Combs"<g.combs@aerosportmodeling.com>
> >>
> >> I have flown without the auto trim and with. And I have to say that it
> >> was well worth the money. It was easy to install and works great. The
> >> aircraft is always in trim and never seem to have any trim issues when
> >> turning off the AP. That being said is it necessary no. But it is
> >> worth the money yes. I do think the price was recently reduced for
> >> them as well.
> >>
> >> Geoff
> >>
> >> Geoff Combs
> >> President
> >> Aerosport Modeling& Design
> >> 8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
> >> Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
> >> 614-834-5227p
> >> 614-834-5230f
> >> www.aerosportmodeling.com
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> >> Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 9:25 AM
> >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> >> Subject: Re: RV10-List: performance
> >>
> >>
> >> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson<Tim@myrv10.com>
> >>
> >> I could be wrong on the number...it's just off the top of my head.
> >> Basically, it's just something that I almost never see DURING the time
> >> I'm in cruise after I trim. I do have slow-speed trim, due to
> >> safety-trim, so generally when I trim I'm trimmed out so well that it
> >> would pretty much maintain altitude hands-off for a bit. With the
> >> fuel being real near CG, it doesn't change the trim too much during
> >> flight.
> >>
> >> The other factor is that very many of my trips end up being in still
> >> air. The RV-10 has allowed me to enjoy cruising at altitudes more
> >> comfortable than my old plane would like. At any rate, I very rarely
> >> see that indication, except for when I've started my descent and have
> >> to adjust power and speed. Heck, if I had said 50 times in 650 hours,
> >> it would still be a really low number...but I doubt I've seen it that
> >> many times in LEVEL flight in cruise. I differ from Dave Saylor in
> >> that personally, I don't find the need for auto-trim, because I don't
> >> mind re-trimming when I see the indication on descent under AP
> >> control. I don't think it would be a bad feature. I just have a
> >> personal hangup in trusting another device adding to the complexity.
> >> If it were free, I'd definitely have it, but it isn't super cheap from
> >> what I hear. (Never personally priced it though) But for money and
> >> trust, and since I've never felt it to be a big inconvenience, I don't
> >> have it. I have heard from at least 3 or 4 people who love auto-trim
> >> though, so I must say that those who like it have vocalized it. Those
> >> who haven't tried it probably won't miss it. I imagine if I had it,
> >> maybe I'd be one speaking in big support, too... ...it's tough though
> >> as so far the RV-10 is so nice to fly and I have so little workload, I
> >> can't see needing it to be any easier.
> >>
> >> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
> >> do not archive
> >>
> >>
> >> On 9/20/2010 6:03 AM, Jesse Saint wrote:
> >>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Jesse
> >>> Saint<jesse@saintaviation.com>
> >>>
> >>> I seem to see it a lot more in non-still air, of course, but I'd say
> >>> that in the 6 or 7 RV-10's that I've flown, I see it a whole lot more
> >>> than 20 times / 650 hours, but I don't see it every minute or two.
> >>> Again, it depends a lot on how still the air is. I imagine it also
> >>> makes a difference if you don't have the high-torque servo. I think
> >>> that shows out of trim a lot more than the high-torque one does.
> >>>
> >>> do not archive
> >>>
> >>> Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com C:
> >>> 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694
> >>>
> >>> On Sep 19, 2010, at 10:39 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson<Tim@myrv10.com>
> >>>>
> >>>> Interesting...I don't find that to be the case at all. I find that
> >>>> if I trim for hands-off, and set the autopilot, it stays pretty much
> >>>> 99.9% of the time until descent with no out-of-trim indication.
> >>>> Very occasionally I get it, but so rare that maybe enroute cruise
> >>>> I've only seen the indicator a dozen or 20 times in
> >>>> 650+ hours. It does come on during descents sometimes though if I
> >>>> don't re-trim.
> >>>>
> >>>> Do you have safety-trim or some other speed control system that
> >>>> allows you to get the trim real precise? Maybe for some reason your
> >>>> AP servo's sensors are extra sensitive?
> >>>>
> >>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 9/19/2010 9:19 PM, DLM wrote:
> >>>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "DLM"<dlm46007@cox.net>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The autopilot is very sensitive; I can manually trim so that the
> >>>>> electronic trim wheel disappears but shortly thereafter it
> >>>>> reappears due apparently to slight pitching of the aircraft.
> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson"<Tim@MyRV10.com>
> >>>>> To:<rv10-list@matronics.com> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 3:10
> >>>>> PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: performance
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson<Tim@myrv10.com>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Your autopilot was out of trim...did you notice it when you were
> >>>>>> flying? Looks like a good cruise though.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 9/19/2010 2:09 PM, DLM wrote:
> >>>>>>> Just a few pictures of the trip to the RNO races. Weight was
> >>>>>>> about 2300.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Engine surging on RV 10 on Landing approach |
It has been my practice to enter the airport pattern on the right tank
due
to left hand circuits and in my experience mostly left hand crosswinds.
This
practice has served me well until recently.
I was coming back to Kitchener Ontario from Portsmouth NH just after
hurricane Earl had moved up the US East coast and the winds were strong
and
gusting from the north west. The trip which usually takes 2.5 hrs took 3
hours and 40 minutes. Most of the trip I was grounding 120 to 125 kts
but at
times I was down to 107 kts.
As I approached my home airport I was cleared to a 4 mile final on
runway 26
with reported winds 300 at 23 gusting 37 knots.
This gave me a 40 degree cross wind. I had 9 gals in the left and 7 gals
in
the right tank and had chosen the right tank for approach and landing. I
was
indicating 110 kts on approach but grounding 75. Runway 26 is 7500 feet
and
I had decided not to land at the threshold due to past experience with
turbulence at the threshold of 26 due to some trees. I was planning to
attempt touch down about =BC way down the runway. The turbulence on
approach
was considerable and I need almost all of the left rudder to keep the
right
wing low and the aircraft lined up with the runway. As I came over the
threshold the engine began to surge adding to the difficulty to keep the
aircraft stable. I generally land power off so I decided rather than
switch
tanks I just pulled power to idle and continued with the landing. My
major
concern at the time was that this had now become a landing and not an
attempt to land as I had no power to go around. As fortune would have it
the
turbulence subsided as I went into the flair and the landing was
uneventful.
I switched to left tank and taxied back to the hangar. My family was
onboard
and we talked about what had just happen and I said I would trouble
shoot
the problem as this was not a situation that I would like repeated.
I decided to drain the fuel tanks to confirm the gauges were accurate
and
yes they were and I had 9 gals in the left and 7 gals in the right. I
pulled
the gascolator and it was free of debris. I did a fuel flow test on each
side and confirmed that the flows were good.
The weather was clear today so I decided to see if I could duplicate the
surging but at 4000 feet.
The aircraft did not surge on either tank while taxiing or in cruise and
in
coordinated turns.
I turned on the boost pump put the selector on the right tank and was
burning 13 gal/hr at 120 knots. I set the timer, dropped the right wing
and
put in full left rudder to hold a steady heading. 31 seconds later the
engine began to surge. I switched to the left tank and seconds later the
engine recovered and ran smoothly. I repeated this experiment 3 times on
the
right tank and the interval was 31 to 35 seconds. I switched to the left
tank and did the same tests and the results were the same.
I believe the fuel pick up which is located at the lowest corner of the
fuel
tank is being unported when the fuel moves to the wing extremities in
these
uncoordinated maneuvers.
I intend to do this experiment with more fuel in the tank to see at what
fuel levels the pick up can be unported. I will also test this on my F1
Rocket.
It looks like my pattern approach has to be rethought and cross winds
considered when I select which tank to land on.
There does not seem to be an end to the stuff to learn in this endeavor.
Wayne Hadath
RV 10, 82 hrs
F1 Rocket, 435 hrs
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Engine surging on RV 10 on Landing approach |
Wayne, that is an awesome report....thanks! Fits in with a recent conversat
ion on minimum useable fuel we just had here a couple weeks ago.
Tim
On Sep 20, 2010, at 7:19 PM, "Wayne Hadath" <whadath@rogers.com> wrote:
> It has been my practice to enter the airport pattern on the right tank due
to left hand circuits and in my experience mostly left hand crosswinds. Thi
s practice has served me well until recently.
> I was coming back to Kitchener Ontario from Portsmouth NH just after hurri
cane Earl had moved up the US East coast and the winds were strong and gusti
ng from the north west. The trip which usually takes 2.5 hrs took 3 hours an
d 40 minutes. Most of the trip I was grounding 120 to 125 kts but at times I
was down to 107 kts.
> As I approached my home airport I was cleared to a 4 mile final on runway 2
6 with reported winds 300 at 23 gusting 37 knots.
> This gave me a 40 degree cross wind. I had 9 gals in the left and 7 gals i
n the right tank and had chosen the right tank for approach and landing. I w
as indicating 110 kts on approach but grounding 75. Runway 26 is 7500 feet a
nd I had decided not to land at the threshold due to past experience with tu
rbulence at the threshold of 26 due to some trees. I was planning to attempt
touch down about =C2=BC way down the runway. The turbulence on approach was
considerable and I need almost all of the left rudder to keep the right win
g low and the aircraft lined up with the runway. As I came over the threshol
d the engine began to surge adding to the difficulty to keep the aircraft st
able. I generally land power off so I decided rather than switch tanks I jus
t pulled power to idle and continued with the landing. My major concern at t
he time was that this had now become a landing and not an attempt to land as
I had no power to go around. As fortune would have it the turbulence subsid
ed as I went into the flair and the landing was uneventful. I switched to le
ft tank and taxied back to the hangar. My family was onboard and we talked a
bout what had just happen and I said I would trouble shoot the problem as th
is was not a situation that I would like repeated.
> I decided to drain the fuel tanks to confirm the gauges were accurate and y
es they were and I had 9 gals in the left and 7 gals in the right. I pulled t
he gascolator and it was free of debris. I did a fuel flow test on each side
and confirmed that the flows were good.
> The weather was clear today so I decided to see if I could duplicate the s
urging but at 4000 feet.
> The aircraft did not surge on either tank while taxiing or in cruise and i
n coordinated turns.
> I turned on the boost pump put the selector on the right tank and was burn
ing 13 gal/hr at 120 knots. I set the timer, dropped the right wing and put
in full left rudder to hold a steady heading. 31 seconds later the engine b
egan to surge. I switched to the left tank and seconds later the engine reco
vered and ran smoothly. I repeated this experiment 3 times on the right tank
and the interval was 31 to 35 seconds. I switched to the left tank and did t
he same tests and the results were the same.
> I believe the fuel pick up which is located at the lowest corner of the fu
el tank is being unported when the fuel moves to the wing extremities in the
se uncoordinated maneuvers.
> I intend to do this experiment with more fuel in the tank to see at what f
uel levels the pick up can be unported. I will also test this on my F1 Rock
et.
> It looks like my pattern approach has to be rethought and cross winds cons
idered when I select which tank to land on.
> There does not seem to be an end to the stuff to learn in this endeavor.
> Wayne Hadath
> RV 10, 82 hrs
> F1 Rocket, 435 hrs
>
>
>
==========================
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==========================
=========
==========================
=========
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=========
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | doors and body work |
The idea of grounding the plane is great=2C but wasteful. I hooked my wirin
g to the vacuum and used the electricity to power it. Kind of like perpetua
l motion. Maybe I can store up the charge from all the work=2C including sa
nding and I will forget the gas for the first flight.
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