Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:36 AM - Re: Ballast? (tsts4)
2. 05:35 AM - Re: Re: Ballast? (Bob and Karen Brown)
3. 06:28 AM - Re: Ballast? (Rene Felker)
4. 08:26 AM - Re: Re: Ballast? (davidsoutpost@comcast.net)
5. 09:34 AM - Re: Re: Ballast? (Jim Combs)
6. 09:37 AM - Re: Ballast? (Jim Combs)
7. 09:57 AM - Re: Ballast? (Rene Felker)
8. 10:25 AM - Re: Ballast? (fixitauto@aol.com)
9. 11:38 AM - Re: Ballast? (DLM)
10. 12:19 PM - Re: Ballast? (tsts4)
11. 12:30 PM - Re: Ballast? (Michael Kraus)
12. 02:28 PM - Re: Ballast? (John Melchert)
13. 03:24 PM - Re: Ballast-really needed for test flight and beyond? (Pascal)
14. 03:47 PM - why test (Linn Walters)
15. 05:44 PM - Spidertracks (Miller John)
16. 05:49 PM - Re: Ballast? (Jim Combs)
17. 05:54 PM - Re: Spidertracks (Linn Walters)
18. 07:21 PM - Re: Ballast? (Miller John)
Message 1
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I'm not at that point, but my plan is to 5 gal water jugs @ 40/lbs a piece when
full. About as cheap as it gets and I can quickly configure different weights.
--------
Todd Stovall
728TT (reserved)
RV-10 Empacone, Wings, Fuse
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315010#315010
Message 2
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When you use something as ballast, you should assume you'll spill it. In
that context, water or dirt or sand=good. salt=not so much
Bob Brown
Independence,OR
RV-10 - wiring/FWF
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of tsts4
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 4:32 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Ballast?
I'm not at that point, but my plan is to 5 gal water jugs @ 40/lbs a piece
when full. About as cheap as it gets and I can quickly configure different
weights.
--------
Todd Stovall
728TT (reserved)
RV-10 Empacone, Wings, Fuse
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315010#315010
Message 3
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Whatever you choose, you will need a lot..
I used 80# sand bags. I placed them in garbage bags to prevent spills.
When I was done..the sand went into my kids sand box.
Rene' Felker
N423CF
801-721-6080
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Dawson-Townsend,Timothy
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 9:44 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Ballast?
What have folks used for ballast to do max gross weight and other c.g.
testing during their Phase I period?
TDT
Tim Dawson-Townsend
RV-10 N52KS
APRS KB1URG
tdt@aurora.aero
617-500-4812 (office)
617-905-4800 (mobile)
smaller flight
Message 4
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40# water softener salt bags work great, especially if you have a use for them
afterward.
David Clifford
RV-10 Builder
65% Done-95% To Go
N849RV (reserved)
----- Original Message -----
From: "tsts4" <tsts4@verizon.net>
Sent: Thursday, October 7, 2010 7:32:20 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Ballast?
I'm not at that point, but my plan is to 5 gal water jugs @ 40/lbs a piece when
full. About as cheap as it gets and I can quickly configure different weights.
--------
Todd Stovall
728TT (reserved)
RV-10 Empacone, Wings, Fuse
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315010#315010
Message 5
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Put the lead shot in a PVC Pipe segment sized for the desired weight and
glue on caps. Easy to manage and doesn't spill.
Jim C N312F - Flying
On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 12:19 AM, AirMike <Mikeabel@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> I bought 75# of lead shot at Cabellas and put it in a plastic bag to keep
> the lead dust away from inside the plane, but I found that I only needed 50#
> - I keep it in a plastic bucket shock corded to the rear of the baggage
> area. That way it is easy to remove when I need to load baggage
>
> --------
> OSH '10 or Bust
> Q/B - finally done
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315004#315004
>
>
Message 6
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I bought 150 lbs of shot from a local sporting goods store and used that.
It's easily moved around and can be secured.
Jim Combs - N312F
On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 11:44 PM, Dawson-Townsend,Timothy <
tdawson-townsend@aurora.aero> wrote:
> What have folks used for ballast to do max gross weight and other c.g.
> testing during their Phase I period?
>
>
> TDT
>
>
> Tim Dawson-Townsend
>
> RV-10 N52KS
>
> APRS KB1URG
>
> tdt@aurora.aero
>
> 617-500-4812 (office)
>
> 617-905-4800 (mobile)
>
> [image: smaller flight]
>
>
Message 7
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I think might have answered the wrong question. I thought he was looking
for what he used for Max GW testing. Need a lot more than 150lbs for that.
So my new answer is..I pack a survival kit with water in it. Weights about
20 lbs and is all the ballast I need to day to day flying...
Rene' Felker
N423CF
801-721-6080
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Combs
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ballast?
I bought 150 lbs of shot from a local sporting goods store and used that.
It's easily moved around and can be secured.
Jim Combs - N312F
On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 11:44 PM, Dawson-Townsend,Timothy
<tdawson-townsend@aurora.aero> wrote:
What have folks used for ballast to do max gross weight and other c.g.
testing during their Phase I period?
TDT
Tim Dawson-Townsend
RV-10 N52KS
APRS KB1URG
tdt@aurora.aero
617-500-4812 (office)
617-905-4800 (mobile)
Error! Filename not specified.
Message 8
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WHY NOT JUST USE THOSE GOLD BARS YOU GOT BARRIED IN THE BACK YARD.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dawson-Townsend,Timothy <tdawson-townsend@aurora.aero>
Sent: Wed, Oct 6, 2010 10:44 pm
Subject: RV10-List: Ballast?
What have folks used for ballast to do max gross weight and other c.g. tes
ting during their Phase I period?
TDT
Tim Dawson-Townsend
RV-10 N52KS
APRS KB1URG
tdt@aurora.aero
617-500-4812 (office)
617-905-4800 (mobile)
Message 9
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why do all this testing at all? If one builds to the plans and uses the
hardware provided, why so much testing? A unique design "homebuilt"
would require complete testing. An RV kit built to Vans plans and rigged
to Vans plans should perform very closely with the numbers as provided
by the kit manufacturer. At least as closely as Cessna did with their
marketing driven operating handbooks in times past..
----- Original Message -----
From: fixitauto@aol.com
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ballast?
WHY NOT JUST USE THOSE GOLD BARS YOU GOT BARRIED IN THE BACK YARD.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dawson-Townsend,Timothy <tdawson-townsend@aurora.aero>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com <rv10-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wed, Oct 6, 2010 10:44 pm
Subject: RV10-List: Ballast?
What have folks used for ballast to do max gross weight and other c.g.
testing during their Phase I period?
TDT
Tim Dawson-Townsend
RV-10 N52KS
APRS KB1URG
tdt@aurora.aero
617-500-4812 (office)
617-905-4800 (mobile)
Message 10
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Hmmm. Color me ignorant but I thought due diligence dictated that you are supposed
to test the aircraft in a variety of weight/CG configurations in actual flight
to verify performance. The only way to effectively do that in phase one
is with ballast. Regardless of any one else's opinion, I still plan to explore
multiple configs because I want to know what the no kidding flight characteristics
are before I plop pax and bags in the plane.
--------
Todd Stovall
728TT (reserved)
RV-10 Empacone, Wings, Fuse
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315045#315045
Message 11
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I do it because I want to understand how my plane flies at all ends of the s
pectrum. Knowledge is king......
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 7, 2010, at 2:20 PM, "DLM" <dlm46007@cox.net> wrote:
> why do all this testing at all? If one builds to the plans and uses the ha
rdware provided, why so much testing? A unique design "homebuilt" would requ
ire complete testing. An RV kit built to Vans plans and rigged to Vans plans
should perform very closely with the numbers as provided by the kit manufac
turer. At least as closely as Cessna did with their marketing driven operati
ng handbooks in times past..
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: fixitauto@aol.com
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 10:22 AM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ballast?
>
> WHY NOT JUST USE THOSE GOLD BARS YOU GOT BARRIED IN THE BACK YARD.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dawson-Townsend,Timothy <tdawson-townsend@aurora.aero>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wed, Oct 6, 2010 10:44 pm
> Subject: RV10-List: Ballast?
>
> What have folks used for ballast to do max gross weight and other c.g. tes
ting during their Phase I period?
>
> TDT
>
>
> Tim Dawson-Townsend
> RV-10 N52KS
> APRS KB1URG
> tdt@aurora.aero
> 617-500-4812 (office)
> 617-905-4800 (mobile)
> <image001.png>
>
Message 12
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By definition, we test to verify everything was built to spec. I.e. you
can=99t know you built it to spec unless you test.
Besides, do you really want to find out how it behaves at gross with
your family as the ballast?
John Melchert
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Ballast-really needed for test flight and beyond? |
40 hours for someone like me that has an experimental engine- (so there
goes the Vans spec) 25 for a certified engine and prop- not experimental
like many have bought from Vans . I need something to do for those 40
hours so why not use that time to do what the flight test period is
designed for.. Ballast is probably one of many things we'll need during
the test period, a camera is another and lastly, confidence building as
we verify everything works right. I'm with those that bringing your
family along, without having a plane fully tested, is a big mistake.
Read Tim's commentary on someone who chose to take shortcuts along the
way and really did not use the flight test period correctly- we can
learn from others mistakes, not doing so will leave one vulnerable to do
the same thing. Leave the ballast out or not completing different CG
test flights, you aren't doing a full test of the plane. Finding out how
a aft CG plane feels like with people on board is not the time to
discover it.
Cessna had a certified plane- all built the same with the same engine
and weights. we are all "one offs" some have barrett, some have
Lycoming, some have a Chevette some even a corvette engine, my engine is
a Aztec engine cleaned up, in all these cases (except for the chevette
engine which I doubt would even move a glider) we need to know the take
off and landing settings, we need to assure our gizmos we added for
doors and such actually work etc.. we are literally testing our version
of the Vans plans.. If the FAA didn't think so our repairmans cert could
work on any RV-10.
From: DLM
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ballast?
why do all this testing at all? If one builds to the plans and uses the
hardware provided, why so much testing? A unique design "homebuilt"
would require complete testing. An RV kit built to Vans plans and rigged
to Vans plans should perform very closely with the numbers as provided
by the kit manufacturer. At least as closely as Cessna did with their
marketing driven operating handbooks in times past..
----- Original Message -----
From: fixitauto@aol.com
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ballast?
WHY NOT JUST USE THOSE GOLD BARS YOU GOT BARRIED IN THE BACK YARD.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dawson-Townsend,Timothy <tdawson-townsend@aurora.aero>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com <rv10-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wed, Oct 6, 2010 10:44 pm
Subject: RV10-List: Ballast?
What have folks used for ballast to do max gross weight and other c.g.
testing during their Phase I period?
TDT
Tim Dawson-Townsend
RV-10 N52KS
APRS KB1URG
tdt@aurora.aero
617-500-4812 (office)
617-905-4800 (mobile)
Message 14
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Message 15
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Any of the list in the US using it figured cost per hour yet?
grumpy
do not archive
On Oct 6, 2010, at 11:45 PM, Neil & Sarah Colliver wrote:
> >
>
> We've had the 406 here in New Zealand for a couple of years now. In
> many cases / places, even once you push the alarm, you can still be
> waiting for a satellite to come over & pick it up. ( a bit like RAIM
> outages, I think.) I have the mandatory 406mhz ELT, but the Artex
> model currently has an AD as there have been a number G switch
> failures. So we now have 6 month compulsory testing. (urgh -more
> expense!)
>
> I also have a couple of the very compact & neat McMurdo fastfinds
> for personal use. The neoprene cover means it floats. Lovely &
> small, & I simply put it around my neck if flying over water.
>
> But our main device for safety is the Spidertracks. Although it
> costs a bit on every flight, we have the comfort of knowing that the
> plane is tracked globally, and that the emergency services are
> alerted pretty much instantly we press the alarm.
>
> Not only that but we also get global text messaging with it via
> bluetooth!
>
> My wife loves it because she can track the plane via the web any
> time (or I can, if she's flying.)
>
> www.spidertracks.com
>
> Neil
> ZK-RVT
> Now flying again after the 2 wettest months in memory.
>
>
Message 16
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Rene,
You are correct, 150 lbs won't take it to full gross weight, but having it
back in the baggage area will move the cg considerably aft. Fly it for a
while and get used to the different handling. Takeoffs and landings are
different with aft CG in the -10. Take the time to learn to fly it with th
e
aft CG. The flair for landing and takeoffs with aft CG are different. I
have learned to fly the airplane differently based on where the CG is. Use
the 40 hours to evaluate your flying skills. Its fun and there is no
pressure from passengers or other pilots. You can do touch and goes all da
y
long without ever touching the nose wheel to the ground with aft CG. With
forward CG, the nose wheel is coming down. Not abruptly but very soon afte
r
the mains are down. The -10 is a wonderful aircraft and I have really
enjoyed flying it.
Jim C N312F
Do Not Archive
On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Rene Felker <rene@felker.com> wrote:
> I think might have answered the wrong question. I thought he was lookin
g
> for what he used for Max GW testing. Need a lot more than 150lbs for tha
t.
>
>
> So my new answer is=85=85I pack a survival kit with water in it. Weights
about
> 20 lbs and is all the ballast I need to day to day flying=85..
>
>
> Rene' Felker
>
> N423CF
>
> 801-721-6080
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Spidertracks |
Oh God! You don't really want to do that, do you??? :-P
Linn
On 10/7/2010 8:40 PM, Miller John wrote:
>
> Any of the list in the US using it figured cost per hour yet?
>
> grumpy
>
> do not archive
>
> On Oct 6, 2010, at 11:45 PM, Neil & Sarah Colliver wrote:
>
>>
>> We've had the 406 here in New Zealand for a couple of years now. In
>> many cases / places, even once you push the alarm, you can still be
>> waiting for a satellite to come over & pick it up. ( a bit like RAIM
>> outages, I think.) I have the mandatory 406mhz ELT, but the Artex
>> model currently has an AD as there have been a number G switch
>> failures. So we now have 6 month compulsory testing. (urgh -more
>> expense!)
>>
>> I also have a couple of the very compact & neat McMurdo fastfinds for
>> personal use. The neoprene cover means it floats. Lovely & small, & I
>> simply put it around my neck if flying over water.
>>
>> But our main device for safety is the Spidertracks. Although it costs
>> a bit on every flight, we have the comfort of knowing that the plane
>> is tracked globally, and that the emergency services are alerted
>> pretty much instantly we press the alarm.
>>
>> Not only that but we also get global text messaging with it via
>> bluetooth!
>>
>> My wife loves it because she can track the plane via the web any time
>> (or I can, if she's flying.)
>>
>> www.spidertracks.com
>>
>> Neil
>> ZK-RVT
>> Now flying again after the 2 wettest months in memory.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 18
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Don't forget to do these with light fuel loads!!
grumpy
do not archive
On Oct 7, 2010, at 7:46 PM, Jim Combs wrote:
> Rene,
>
> You are correct, 150 lbs won't take it to full gross weight, but
> having it back in the baggage area will move the cg considerably
> aft. Fly it for a while and get used to the different handling.
> Takeoffs and landings are different with aft CG in the -10. Take
> the time to learn to fly it with the aft CG. The flair for landing
> and takeoffs with aft CG are different. I have learned to fly the
> airplane differently based on where the CG is. Use the 40 hours to
> evaluate your flying skills. Its fun and there is no pressure from
> passengers or other pilots. You can do touch and goes all day long
> without ever touching the nose wheel to the ground with aft CG.
> With forward CG, the nose wheel is coming down. Not abruptly but
> very soon after the mains are down. The -10 is a wonderful aircraft
> and I have really enjoyed flying it.
>
> Jim C N312F
>
> Do Not Archive
>
> On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Rene Felker <rene@felker.com> wrote:
> I think might have answered the wrong question. I thought he was
> looking for what he used for Max GW testing. Need a lot more than
> 150lbs for that.
>
>
> So my new answer is=85=85I pack a survival kit with water in it.
> Weights about 20 lbs and is all the ballast I need to day to day
> flying=85..
>
>
> Rene' Felker
>
> N423CF
>
> 801-721-6080
>
>
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