---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 10/31/10: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:16 AM - EFIS maintenance (DLM) 2. 02:24 AM - door maintenance (DLM) 3. 04:13 AM - Re: wire ties, NACA vents (Bob Leffler) 4. 05:53 AM - Re: EFIS maintenance (Kelly McMullen) 5. 10:24 AM - Re: wire ties, NACA vents (Rick Lark) 6. 11:27 AM - Re: wire ties, NACA vents (Lenny Iszak) 7. 12:56 PM - Re: wire ties, NACA vents (Bob Leffler) 8. 01:48 PM - Re: wire ties, NACA vents (johngoodman) 9. 03:25 PM - Re: Re: wire ties, NACA vents (Rick Lark) 10. 04:06 PM - Re: Re: wire ties, NACA vents (Rene) 11. 06:07 PM - Re: Overhead consoles and headliners (bob-tcw) 12. 08:55 PM - Oil Pressure? (Dawson-Townsend,Timothy) 13. 09:24 PM - Re: Oil Pressure? (DLM) 14. 11:49 PM - Re: Overhead consoles and headliners (Gordon Anderson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:16:25 AM PST US From: "DLM" Subject: RV10-List: EFIS maintenance While attending a CFI refresher course, the instructor reminded everyone that EFIS DB updates must go in a maintenance log; primarily referring to certified aircraft and Garmin 430/480/530 etc... Anyone complying for experimentals and in what fashion? for which devices? ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:24:22 AM PST US From: "DLM" Subject: RV10-List: door maintenance As the 10 doors are opened and closed we have metal to metal contact usually aluminum 6061T6 to same. In some cases it may be stainless and aluminum. Has anyone measured the diameter of the pin to endure sufficient wall thickness remains? ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:13:14 AM PST US From: "Bob Leffler" Subject: RE: RV10-List: wire ties, NACA vents Rick, You'll probably get as many different responses as there are folks on this list. There is no hurry for the naca vents in the rear. The top skin is one of the last items you rivet, so you can be 95% done with the whole aircraft and still install the naca vents. I installed mine well after I attached the empennage to the fuselage. You also want to check out Aerosport Products naca vent controller . I'm not sure what you mean by lightening hole wire ties. There are wire ties, but none are specific for holes. I prefer adel clamps and lacing, but you'll find folks that are just as satisfied with nylon wire ties. There should be plenty in the archives debating the merit of both approaches and using wire ties firewall forward. There is also a special grommet edging for the holes to protect wiring from rubbing. (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/grommetedging.php) For bringing wires through holes, I prefer using F-10111 (-R-L) and an adel clamp. You can order the F-10111 from Vans or simply make your own. I've included an excerpt from the plans that you probably don't have yet (OP37-11) to show you. For the locations of the antenna, there are also many opinions. You'll want to understand the minimum distance required between each antenna. Do you have a list of all the devices you'll need an antenna for? Be sure to include all GPS antenna (you may have more than one) and other options like XM and Navworx (ADS-B). My comm antenna are under the rear seat. Some folks prefer one on the bottom and one on the top for better ground communication. You'll want to keep about 3' between them. As far as the NAV goes, I haven't decided on whether I'm going to locate it on the rear of the empennage or in the top of the vertical. I've seen both install locations. I've also seen the cat whisker type installed backwards too and it seems to work ok. Commant's instructions stat that the whiskers should point forward. Others have put something like Bob Archer's antenna in the wing tips with mixed results. Some work great and some don't. On the fairings, wait until you have the cable installed for precise placement of the fairing. Then you can judge how forward or aft you want to locate the fairing. I also used the fairings where the rudder cables come out of the tunnel in the cabin. Hope this helps... Bob http://mykitlog.com/rleffler From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Lark Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 9:47 PM Subject: RV10-List: wire ties, NACA vents Hi all I'm just starting to rivet my tail cone together and thinking am about add ons for the interior of the tail cone. I am wondering where to purchase the NACA vents that have been used to supply air to the overhead consoles? Also the plastic or nylon lightening hole wire ties? I'd also like anyones opinions on where to place doublers for Nav and Com antennaes. I recall seeing a doubler near the aft end of the bottom skin for a nav antennae. I also believe others have placed one com antennae on the the bottom, but think they usually go under the baggage area? As well I'd like to rivet the little Avery Tools rudder cable fairings to the aft side skin and am wondering about placement over the long narrow oval holes? I guess I'm wondering where the cable actually exits the skin? Thx. Rick #40956 Southampton, Ont. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:53:24 AM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: RV10-List: EFIS maintenance The discussion gets complicated by whether you are using the EFIS for IFR or not. For IFR, the issue of certified vs experimental goes away. Even in a certified plane there is no requirement for "maintenance logs". The requirements are for "records". I'd suggest for your own sanity that database updates and VOR checks be in a small spiral notebook, not in an airframe logbook. Kelly On 10/31/2010 2:12 AM, DLM wrote: > While attending a CFI refresher course, the instructor reminded > everyone that EFIS DB updates must go in a maintenance log; primarily > referring to certified aircraft and Garmin 430/480/530 etc... Anyone > complying for experimentals and in what fashion? for which devices? > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:24:26 AM PST US From: Rick Lark Subject: RE: RV10-List: wire ties, NACA vents Hi Bob.=C2- Thx for the advise.=C2- =C2- Looks like I'm jumping the gun a bit with the vents, so I'm glad to hear th ey can go in much later.=C2- Do you know where to purchase the vents?=C2 - It takes lots of time to get things shipped up here in the "wilds of Ca nada". =C2- I am concerned about the rudder cable fairings as I don't see how I'd get i n there after the aft deck is in place, so I may take a chance and put them in before I close up back there.=C2- =C2- With regards to the lightening hole wire ties, I got lucky this morning and found them in the Panduit Co. web site.=C2- They are part # LHMS-S10, un der the "cable management accessories>wire management mounts used with cabl e ties>screws/rivet applied" part of the Panduit web site.=C2- I think th ey're pretty slick.=C2- Just gotta find out who stocks them. =C2- I do know what I'm going to install as far as avionics, just got to decide where I want the antenna's.=C2- If anyone has a picture of the rear mount ed "cat's whisker", please let me know. =C2- Regards, =C2- Rick #40956 =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- --- On Sun, 10/31/10, Bob Leffler wrote: From: Bob Leffler Subject: RE: RV10-List: wire ties, NACA vents Received: Sunday, October 31, 2010, 11:08 AM Rick, =C2- You=99ll probably get as many different responses as there are folks on this list. =C2- There is no hurry for the naca vents in the rear.=C2-=C2- The top skin is one of the last items you rivet, so you can be 95% done with the whole a ircraft and still install the naca vents.=C2-=C2- I installed mine well after I attached the empennage to the fuselage.=C2-=C2- You also want to check out Aerosport Products naca vent controller. =C2- I=99m not sure what you mean by lightening hole wire ties.=C2- Ther e are wire ties, but none are specific for holes.=C2- I prefer adel clamp s and lacing, but you=99ll find folks that are just as satisfied with nylon wire ties.=C2- There should be plenty in the archives debating the merit of both approaches and using wire ties firewall forward.=C2- There is also a special grommet edging for the holes to protect wiring from rubb ing. =C2-(http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/grommetedging.php ) =C2-For bringing wires through holes, I prefer using =C2-F-10111 (-R- L) and an adel clamp.=C2- You can order the F-10111 from Vans or simply m ake your own.=C2-=C2- I=99ve included an excerpt from the plans t hat you probably don=99t have yet (OP37-11) to show you. =C2- =C2- =C2- For the locations of the antenna, there are also many opinions.=C2- You =99ll want to understand the minimum distance required between each a ntenna.=C2-=C2- Do you have=C2- a list of all the devices you =99ll need an antenna for?=C2- Be sure to include all GPS antenna (you ma y have more than one) and other options like XM and Navworx (ADS-B).=C2- =C2- My comm antenna are under the rear seat.=C2- Some folks prefer one on the bottom and one on the top for better ground communication.=C2- Yo u=99ll want to keep about 3=99 between them.=C2- As far as th e NAV goes, I haven=99t decided on whether I=99m going to locat e it on the rear of the empennage or in the top of the vertical.=C2-=C2 - I=99ve seen both install locations. =C2-=C2-I=99ve also seen the cat whisker type installed backwards too and it seems to work ok. =C2- Commant=99s instructions stat that the whiskers should point f orward.=C2-=C2- Others have put something like Bob Archer=99s ant enna in the wing tips with mixed results.=C2- Some work great and some don=99t. =C2- On the fairings, wait until you have the cable installed for precise placem ent of the fairing.=C2- Then you can judge how forward or aft you want to locate the fairing.=C2- I also used the fairings where the rudder cables come out of the tunnel in the cabin. =C2- Hope this helps. =C2- Bob http://mykitlog.com/rleffler =C2- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Lark Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 9:47 PM Subject: RV10-List: wire ties, NACA vents =C2- Hi all =C2- I'm=C2-just starting to=C2-rivet my tail cone together and thinking am about add ons for the interior of the tail cone.=C2- I am wondering where to purchase the NACA vents that have been used to supply air to the overhe ad consoles?=C2- Also the plastic or nylon lightening hole wire ties? =C2- I'd also like anyones opinions on where to place=C2-doublers for Nav and Com antennaes.=C2- I recall seeing a doubler near the aft end of the bott om skin for a nav antennae.=C2- I also believe=C2-others have placed on e com antennae on the the bottom, but think they usually go under the bagga ge area?=C2-=C2- =C2- As well I'd like to rivet the little Avery Tools rudder cable fairings to t he aft side skin and am wondering about placement over the long narrow oval holes?=C2- I guess I'm wondering where the cable actually exits the skin ? =C2- Thx.=C2-=C2- =C2- Rick #40956 Southampton, Ont. =C2-=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:27:06 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: wire ties, NACA vents From: "Lenny Iszak" Rick, Mouser has those wire mounts: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Panduit/LHMS-S10-D/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuXpqUce5NjkbL3gaN3TcZpHd8Oc2kgTA4%3D Lenny Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=317594#317594 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:56:52 PM PST US From: "Bob Leffler" Subject: RE: RV10-List: wire ties, NACA vents You can order the naca vents from Vans. SV-1 for the vent and sc-3 for hose. Don=99t order their sv-5. Get the eyeball vents from Steinair. Until you put the horizontal and vertical on, you=99ve got plenty of room to get a hand in to buck. bob From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Lark Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 1:17 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: wire ties, NACA vents Hi Bob. Thx for the advise. Looks like I'm jumping the gun a bit with the vents, so I'm glad to hear they can go in much later. Do you know where to purchase the vents? It takes lots of time to get things shipped up here in the "wilds of Canada". I am concerned about the rudder cable fairings as I don't see how I'd get in there after the aft deck is in place, so I may take a chance and put them in before I close up back there. With regards to the lightening hole wire ties, I got lucky this morning and found them in the Panduit Co. web site. They are part # LHMS-S10, under the "cable management accessories>wire management mounts used with cable ties>screws/rivet applied" part of the Panduit web site. I think they're pretty slick. Just gotta find out who stocks them. I do know what I'm going to install as far as avionics, just got to decide where I want the antenna's. If anyone has a picture of the rear mounted "cat's whisker", please let me know. Regards, Rick #40956 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:48:56 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: wire ties, NACA vents From: "johngoodman" Rick, Bob's advice is good. Get the naca vents from Van - I did. As far as the Avery rudder cable fairings, I fretted like you and got them on as soon as I had the cables in. Don't bother. Like Bob said, you can rivet them on just before the tail feathers go on for the last time. As a suggestion, I riveted them, but it occurred to me that using a little pro-seal or JB Weld would do a good job as well. Also, you wouldn't need to drill holes. In my paint prep, the rudder cable fairings required a little "fill" because of minor (but noticeable) bulging between rivets. John -------- #40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel N711JG reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=317609#317609 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:25:00 PM PST US From: Rick Lark Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: wire ties, NACA vents All right then.....I can't argue with the advise of either of you John or B ob, so I will wait on the rudder cable fairings.- I will have a look on V ans web site again for those NACA vents.- I did look but-must have miss ed them.- Thx to both of you... - Rick #40956 --- On Sun, 10/31/10, johngoodman wrote: From: johngoodman Subject: RV10-List: Re: wire ties, NACA vents Received: Sunday, October 31, 2010, 8:45 PM Rick, Bob's advice is good. Get the naca vents from Van - I did. As far as the Av ery rudder cable fairings, I fretted like you and got them on as soon as I had the cables in. Don't bother. Like Bob said, you can rivet them on just before the tail feathers go on for the last time. As a suggestion, I rivete d them, but it occurred to me that using a little pro-seal or JB Weld would do a good job as well. Also, you wouldn't need to drill holes. In my paint prep, the rudder cable fairings required a little "fill" because of minor (but noticeable) bulging between rivets. John -------- #40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel N711JG reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=317609#317609 le, List Admin. =0A=0A ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:06:46 PM PST US From: "Rene" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: wire ties, NACA vents I used proseal to put them on. Worked great and have held up well. Rene' 801-721-6080 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of johngoodman Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 2:46 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: wire ties, NACA vents --> Rick, Bob's advice is good. Get the naca vents from Van - I did. As far as the Avery rudder cable fairings, I fretted like you and got them on as soon as I had the cables in. Don't bother. Like Bob said, you can rivet them on just before the tail feathers go on for the last time. As a suggestion, I riveted them, but it occurred to me that using a little pro-seal or JB Weld would do a good job as well. Also, you wouldn't need to drill holes. In my paint prep, the rudder cable fairings required a little "fill" because of minor (but noticeable) bulging between rivets. John -------- #40572 QB. Working on Cowling & Panel N711JG reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=317609#317609 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:07:04 PM PST US From: "bob-tcw" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Overhead consoles and headliners Michael, We went for the paint on our overhead console. I designed and molded my own and wanted it to flow seamlessly into the canopy without any visible fasteners. So glass work and body work and paint was the way for us. Here's the photo trail... http://picasaweb.google.com/rcnewman64/OverheadConsole# Bob Newman TCW Technologies, LLC. www.tcwtech.com N541RV. (sand-fill-sand-fill-paint-sand-etc....) ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:55:26 PM PST US From: "Dawson-Townsend,Timothy" Subject: RV10-List: Oil Pressure? Hmm. The engine has been pretty bullet-proof for 30 hours of test flying. Then today I flew a couple of flights about 30-40 minutes each - no troubl es. Then on flight number three, after 15 minutes or so, I notice that Oil Pres sure has dropped into the 50s. It dripped a little more, and eventually se emed to stabilize between 43 and 48 as I headed back to the airport. Chang ing the throttle or prop settings seemed to have minimal effect. As I got down towards pattern altitude, it seemed to creep back up to the high 50s a nd back over 60. I haven't had time to pull the cowl off to look around, but there certainly wasn't oil pouring out on the ramp, and there's 9 quarts on the dipstick. Thoughts? TDT Tim Dawson-Townsend RV-10 N52KS APRS KB1URG tdt@aurora.aero 617-500-4812 (office) 617-905-4800 (mobile) smaller flight ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:24:58 PM PST US From: "DLM" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Oil Pressure? what oil transducer are you using? possibly something is impeding the signal to your engine management system. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dawson-Townsend,Timothy To: rv10-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 8:51 PM Subject: RV10-List: Oil Pressure? Hmm. The engine has been pretty bullet-proof for 30 hours of test flying. Then today I flew a couple of flights about 30-40 minutes each - no troubles. Then on flight number three, after 15 minutes or so, I notice that Oil Pressure has dropped into the 50s. It dripped a little more, and eventually seemed to stabilize between 43 and 48 as I headed back to the airport. Changing the throttle or prop settings seemed to have minimal effect. As I got down towards pattern altitude, it seemed to creep back up to the high 50s and back over 60. I haven't had time to pull the cowl off to look around, but there certainly wasn't oil pouring out on the ramp, and there's 9 quarts on the dipstick. Thoughts? TDT Tim Dawson-Townsend RV-10 N52KS APRS KB1URG tdt@aurora.aero 617-500-4812 (office) 617-905-4800 (mobile) ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:49:59 PM PST US From: "Gordon Anderson" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Overhead consoles and headliners Hi folks, I picked up on a comment yesterday about not wanting to have the overhead console so close to the head. Is there an issue, either in the front or rear seats? I'm 6ft 2". Gordon Anderson Switzerland, #41015 - Starting tailcone Do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.