---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 11/18/10: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:05 AM - Re: fuel filter maintenance (gary) 2. 06:40 AM - re mounting engine (John Gonzalez) 3. 06:46 AM - Re: fuel filter maintenance (Dave Saylor) 4. 07:06 AM - Re: fuel filter maintenance (Jesse Saint) 5. 07:06 AM - Re: fuel filter maintenance (Kevin Belue) 6. 10:30 AM - RV-10 for X-plane (Pascal) 7. 11:08 AM - Re: fuel filter maintenance (Dave Saylor) 8. 12:18 PM - Wing Skins Seam (Dave Fritzsche (Building)) 9. 03:41 PM - Brass Torx or Socket Head Screws For Panel (Sean Stephens) 10. 04:37 PM - Re: Brass Torx or Socket Head Screws For Panel (Linn Walters) 11. 07:17 PM - Re: Brass Torx or Socket Head Screws For Panel (Bill Watson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:05:19 AM PST US From: "gary" Subject: RE: RV10-List: fuel filter maintenance At each annual I do not remove my fuel filter. Instead I disconnect the fuel line at the servo and turn on the fuel pump and measure the fuel flow. Mine flows 42gph when clean. If I do a fuel flow and it is less than that, I remove the filter and clean, which I haven't had to do yet, all is clean. A fuel flow is a lot easier to do than filter removal with the accompanied tube jockeying and body contortions. Filters do not clog instantaneously but slow in flow over time as debris accumulates. Gary Specketer _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 12:10 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: fuel filter maintenance I do agree that it is very unlikely that the filter will become clogged, although I don't necessarily agree that it's overkill to remove and inspect at every annual. I think the oil filter should be replaced at least every 50 hours, not as much because the filter won't filter as well after so many hours (although that is certainly part of it), but to monitor engine wear based on what is in the filter. A problem in the tank could possibly be detected if there was excess material in the fuel filter, even though it may not have much chance of getting completely clogged. do not archive Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 On Nov 17, 2010, at 11:44 PM, DLM wrote: At the second annual, we removed, cleaned, installed and leak tested the filter. TT was 265 hours. I believe I posted the pictures at that time. A few tiny black specks were found. The fuel filter was in excess of 99% completely clean and clear which suggests to me that unless an aircraft fuel tanks were not cleared of proseal after construction little will be found in the filter. A more likely problem could occur at the screens that may clog in each tank. As Kelly said there is a bypass anyway if the primary filter becomes clogged. Simply put, removing and cleaning the fuel filter at every annual is , in my judgment, overkill. href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri bution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:34 AM PST US From: John Gonzalez Subject: RV10-List: re mounting engine Thanks you guys! Do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:46:44 AM PST US From: Dave Saylor Subject: Re: RV10-List: fuel filter maintenance Gary, >>Filters do not clog instantaneously but slow in flow over time as debris accumulates<< Have you tested that theory with your specific filter? And, I wonder what role the bypass valve plays. I'd go along with your method if you could show that a filter blocked, say, 10% gave a correspondingly low fuel flow, but caution tells me that you won't see the flow drop off until the blockage is significant. And wouldn't an open bypass valve restore the fuel flow to something like normal? Dave Saylor AirCrafters 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 95076 831-722-9141 Shop 831-750-0284 Cell On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 6:01 AM, gary wrote: > At each annual I do not remove my fuel filter. Instead I disconnect the > fuel line at the servo and turn on the fuel pump and measure the fuel flow. > Mine flows 42gph when clean. If I do a fuel flow and it is less than that, I > remove the filter and clean, which I havent had to do yet, all is clean. A > fuel flow is a lot easier to do than filter removal with the accompanied > tube jockeying and body contortions. Filters do not clog instantaneously > but slow in flow over time as debris accumulates. > > > Gary Specketer > > > ________________________________ > > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint > Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 12:10 AM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: fuel filter maintenance > > > I do agree that it is very unlikely that the filter will become clogged, > although I don't necessarily agree that it's overkill to remove and inspect > at every annual. I think the oil filter should be replaced at least every > 50 hours, not as much because the filter won't filter as well after so many > hours (although that is certainly part of it), but to monitor engine wear > based on what is in the filter. A problem in the tank could possibly be > detected if there was excess material in the fuel filter, even though it may > not have much chance of getting completely clogged. > > > do not archive > > > Jesse Saint > Saint Aviation, Inc. > jesse@saintaviation.com > C: 352-427-0285 > F: 815-377-3694 > > > On Nov 17, 2010, at 11:44 PM, DLM wrote: > > At the second annual, we removed, cleaned, installed and leak tested the > filter. TT was 265 hours. I believe I posted the pictures at that time. A > few tiny black specks were found. The fuel filter was in excess of 99% > completely clean and clear which suggests to me that unless an aircraft fuel > tanks were not cleared of proseal after construction little will be found in > the filter. A more likely problem could occur at the screensthat may clog > in each tank. As Kelly said there is a bypass anyway if the primary filter > becomes clogged.Simply put, removing and cleaning the fuel filter at every > annual is , in my judgment, overkill. > > > href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com > > href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com > > href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > > href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com > > > href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com > href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com > href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:06:35 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: fuel filter maintenance From: Jesse Saint I don't think the bypass valve in the system bypasses the filter. It is a pressure relief valve so if the boost pump is putting out more pressure than the relief valve is set to handle, it routes some of the fuel from the pressure side of the pump back to the non-presure side of the pump. do not archive Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 On Nov 18, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Dave Saylor wrote: > > Gary, > >>> Filters do not clog instantaneously but slow in flow over time as debris accumulates<< > > Have you tested that theory with your specific filter? And, I wonder > what role the bypass valve plays. > > I'd go along with your method if you could show that a filter blocked, > say, 10% gave a correspondingly low fuel flow, but caution tells me > that you won't see the flow drop off until the blockage is > significant. And wouldn't an open bypass valve restore the fuel flow > to something like normal? > > Dave Saylor > AirCrafters > 140 Aviation Way > Watsonville, CA 95076 > 831-722-9141 Shop > 831-750-0284 Cell > > > > On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 6:01 AM, gary wrote: >> At each annual I do not remove my fuel filter. Instead I disconnect the >> fuel line at the servo and turn on the fuel pump and measure the fuel flow. >> Mine flows 42gph when clean. If I do a fuel flow and it is less than that, I >> remove the filter and clean, which I havent had to do yet, all is clean. A >> fuel flow is a lot easier to do than filter removal with the accompanied >> tube jockeying and body contortions. Filters do not clog instantaneously >> but slow in flow over time as debris accumulates. >> >> >> >> Gary Specketer >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint >> Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 12:10 AM >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV10-List: fuel filter maintenance >> >> >> >> I do agree that it is very unlikely that the filter will become clogged, >> although I don't necessarily agree that it's overkill to remove and inspect >> at every annual. I think the oil filter should be replaced at least every >> 50 hours, not as much because the filter won't filter as well after so many >> hours (although that is certainly part of it), but to monitor engine wear >> based on what is in the filter. A problem in the tank could possibly be >> detected if there was excess material in the fuel filter, even though it may >> not have much chance of getting completely clogged. >> >> >> >> do not archive >> >> >> >> Jesse Saint >> Saint Aviation, Inc. >> jesse@saintaviation.com >> C: 352-427-0285 >> F: 815-377-3694 >> >> >> >> On Nov 17, 2010, at 11:44 PM, DLM wrote: >> >> At the second annual, we removed, cleaned, installed and leak tested the >> filter. TT was 265 hours. I believe I posted the pictures at that time. A >> few tiny black specks were found. The fuel filter was in excess of 99% >> completely clean and clear which suggests to me that unless an aircraft fuel >> tanks were not cleared of proseal after construction little will be found in >> the filter. A more likely problem could occur at the screens that may clog >> in each tank. As Kelly said there is a bypass anyway if the primary filter >> becomes clogged. Simply put, removing and cleaning the fuel filter at every >> annual is , in my judgment, overkill. >> >> >> >> >> >> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com >> >> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com >> >> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> >> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com >> >> >> >> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com >> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com >> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> >> >> > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:06:56 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: fuel filter maintenance From: Kevin Belue There isn't a bypass for the filter..... Sent from my iPhone On Nov 18, 2010, at 8:43 AM, Dave Saylor wrote: > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:30:49 AM PST US From: "Pascal" Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 for X-plane May be old for some but if you have X-plane this looks like a great plane. http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?app=downloads&showfile=11201&show comments=1 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:08:58 AM PST US From: Dave Saylor Subject: Re: RV10-List: fuel filter maintenance Oops. I thought I remembered the conical spring being part of a bypass but apparently not. But I still wouldn't use FF as a measure of how clogged the filter is. I felt silly for talking about the filter bypass so I read up on the whole pump assembly. It seems to run a lot more fuel through itself than what the engine uses. It uses the excess fuel to cool the pump. So if your filter isn't letting a ton of fuel through, even though you're still seeing adequate fuel flow, a partially clogged filter may be limiting how much excess fuel is available to cool the pump. Dave Saylor AirCrafters 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 95076 831-722-9141 Shop 831-750-0284 Cell On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 6:57 AM, Kevin Belue wrote: > > There isn't a bypass for the filter..... > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Nov 18, 2010, at 8:43 AM, Dave Saylor wrote: > >> > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:18:15 PM PST US From: "Dave Fritzsche (Building)" Subject: RV10-List: Wing Skins Seam I am getting ready to put the top skins on my left wing. I understand that some people have taken some material off the skins at the seam of the two skins to smooth the lap. Others have joggled the seam. Still others have simply riveted the seam together. I would like to know the pros and cons of each approach and if you joggled the seam, how you worked with the joggle where it meets the fuel tank. Dave -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Fritzsche 40813 Puyallup, WA Wings ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:41:22 PM PST US From: Sean Stephens Subject: RV10-List: Brass Torx or Socket Head Screws For Panel I am trying to locate a supplier of black brass machine screws for my panel. I'd like to have torx or socket heads. I found a few suppliers of phillips head black brass machine screws like Aircraft Spruce, but I cannot locate any with torx or socket heads. Thanks for any info... -Sean #40303 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:37:44 PM PST US From: Linn Walters Subject: Re: RV10-List: Brass Torx or Socket Head Screws For Panel I use McMaster-Carr for my hard to find hardware. Linn On 11/18/2010 6:36 PM, Sean Stephens wrote: > > I am trying to locate a supplier of black brass machine screws for my > panel. I'd like to have torx or socket heads. I found a few > suppliers of phillips head black brass machine screws like Aircraft > Spruce, but I cannot locate any with torx or socket heads. > > Thanks for any info... > > -Sean #40303 > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:17:43 PM PST US From: Bill Watson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Brass Torx or Socket Head Screws For Panel Me too. As I recall I populated my panel with black painted stainless socket heads from MMC. However, I couldn't get the right non-corrossive black socket heads for one backup steam guage - ASI or ALT. The length I needed was only available in black painted regular steel and it started corroding immediately. I'll have to go back and check the instrument and screw lengths to see if anyone has a source. I forgot, why do we want to use brass - magnetics right? Bill "prep prep prep prep paint" Watson On 11/18/2010 7:32 PM, Linn Walters wrote: > > I use McMaster-Carr for my hard to find hardware. > Linn > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.