Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:20 AM - 2010 List of Contributors (Matt Dralle)
2. 03:46 PM - Re: replacement windscreen review (Pascal)
3. 04:50 PM - Re: replacement windscreen review (Tim Olson)
4. 04:50 PM - Re: replacement windscreen review (Tim Olson)
5. 05:19 PM - Re: Transition Training LODA (dmaib@me.com)
6. 06:33 PM - Re: replacement windscreen review (Pascal)
7. 09:50 PM - Re: replacement windscreen review (Tim Olson)
8. 10:00 PM - Re: Re: Transition Training LODA (Tim Olson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | 2010 List of Contributors |
Dear Listers,
The 2010 Matronics Email List and Forum Fund Raiser officially ended a couple of
weeks ago and its time that I publish this year's List of Contributors. Its
the people on this list that directly make the Email Lists and Forums possible.
Their generous contributions keep the servers and Internet connection up and
running.
You can still show your support this year and pick up a great gift at the same
time. The Contribution Web Site is fast, easy, and secure:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I also want to thank Bob, Jon, and Andy for their generous support through the
supply of great gifts this year!! These guys have some great products and I encourage
you to visit their respective web sites:
Bob Nucklolls - AeroElectric - www.aeroelectric.com
Jon Croke - HomebuiltHELP - www.homebuilthelp.com
Andy Gold - The Builder's Bookstore - www.buildersbooks.com
And finally, I'm proud to present The 2010 Fund Raiser List of Contributors:
http://www.matronics.com/loc/2010.html
Thanks again to everyone that made a Contribution this year!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: replacement windscreen review |
Site appears to be updated now.
http://www.vansaircrafttires.com/categories/RV%252d10/.
There is two options, drilled and countersunk for new builders and undrilled
for replacements. I suggested they drill the holes so all a builder needed
to do was position the lens and match drill the lens to the wingtip, saves a
few steps including getting a better fit.
Hope that helps!
Pascal
------------------------------------------------
From: "DLM" <dlm46007@cox.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: replacement windscreen review
>
> I checked the site and did not see the replacement wing tip lens?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 10:05 AM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: replacement windscreen review
>
>
>>
>> I have heard of it from many people along the way over the
>> years, so it's another one of those "heard it a bunch
>> of times" (forum users) yet "never heard of it before"
>> (official company response) things. I did work through it
>> ok on mine, but it required lots of sanding and I'm sure
>> I thinned out the windshield in that area after sanding.
>> Not the most elegant thing. If this Cee Bailey windshield
>> fits a lot better and has equivalent thickness and specs,
>> then I think it's a good idea. I know if I ever have
>> to replace my windshield I will want one that fit better
>> than my first one, because I'd tear up a lot more
>> of the forward fuselage trying to glue and fill one
>> like my first, back in place.
>>
>> One of these days I'll have to update and improve my
>> aftermarket add-ons area on my site to be more inclusive
>> of everything, and maybe list it in a Kit-by-kit format
>> so that builders can know what parts to delete from
>> their order, and buy substitutes, such as the nosewheel,
>> nosewheel axle, axle extensions, oil coolers for some
>> people, brake/fairing mounts, and all of those things
>> that you really probably are best off not installing
>> the stock item. It may make it easier for people buying
>> kits to just trim it down quick. Also, if enough people
>> vote by deleting items from the kits, perhaps they'll
>> think about why that is, and either change suppliers,
>> or improve their original parts....or best, include
>> these things in the kit as standard parts.
>>
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> On 12/11/2010 12:30 AM, Pascal wrote:
>>> Back in October there was a request from Carlos at Cee Baileys asking
>>> for windscreens they could use to prototype a new replacement
>>> windscreen.
>>> http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=63632
>>>
>>> I had some concerns with the quality of my windscreen as it simply did
>>> not fit as well as I would have like. I cut it to the black line and did
>>> everything I could, yet my windscreen had a problem where is bulged out
>>> over .250 gap on one side (right) I called Vans and they told me it was
>>> the first they had heard of this..Funny thing is I later discovered Tim
>>> Olson had the exact same problem mentioned on his webpage.
>>> I jumped on the offer as Cee Baileys is down the road from me. They sent
>>> out a truck and took my windscreen and wingtip lenses. After two months
>>> and a couple refits the
>>> screen was given back and fit into the canopy.
>>> Vans has the builder on sect 45-08 trim and (retrim) and final trim and
>>> final fit, etc..in the first two steps (45-18 for the front window which
>>> references one to go back to 45-08) took me hours to get the fit decent.
>>> With the Cee Baileys these two steps are all be removed except for the
>>> "Final-Trim the perimeter of the front window as required to allow it to
>>> fit into the recess." From the time the windscreen was moved from the
>>> truck to the time it took to final trim and fit into my canopy was 30
>>> minutes. The fit was close to perfect, which is normal since it was
>>> designed to fit all RV-10's with a little room for differences in each
>>> build. The quality of the Cee Baileys windscreen is excellent, I can't
>>> imagine there is much difference in the .250 width acrylic, but there is
>>> a difference in the clarity between the two. My understanding is that
>>> it's in the way the acrylic is stretched and fitted that makes this
>>> difference. It could also be that one was brand new and had less wear on
>>> it than the Vans one that required me to move back and forth to fit it
>>> over 12 (probably more) times. Hard to explain this but the new
>>> windscreen, maybe because it fit, looks much better on the plane than
>>> the trimmed Vans (warped) windscreen ever did.
>>>
>>> The Cee Baileys wingtip lenses (vans VA-193)- Wow! now there this a
>>> difference in the quality of the plastic. The Vans stock is flimsy and
>>> feels cheap, the Cee Baileys lens, which BTW are also close to custom
>>> fitted, for allowance of the fiberglass differences, feel more solid and
>>> "durable". Been told it will outlast the Vans parts 2-3 times.
>>>
>>> In both cases I am very happy with what Cee Baileys did for these parts,
>>> they are part of Desser Tires and have setup a webpage for the RV-10, I
>>> suggested they add the Cee Baileys parts to the Desser web page or as a
>>> minimum a link on the page for easy future reference.
>>> http://www.vansaircrafttires.com/categories/RV%252d10/
>>> On a personal note I have to say that Ken from Desser and Tom Bailey
>>> were outstanding to work with. They really are interested providing
>>> parts for the RV's out there and Ken mentioned he was working with Rapco
>>> to get brake pads specially made for the RV-10 so there would be another
>>> option to the builders. Ken has a commitment for early 2011. He told me
>>> that he will probably offer an introductory price that is far better
>>> than what is currently offered.
>>> Another item he mentioned is that they provide upholstery for a OEM
>>> company. I suggested they consider doing the RV-10 seats as well an
>>> interior and a other work. I need neither but it may be another great
>>> option for builders. Lastly, Cee Baileys makes heat deflectors for
>>> certified aircraft. I asked that they consider making some for the RV-10
>>> which it appears is hard to do without using suction cups and that has
>>> shown to be a 1 week or less solution, aka they fall off if a plane is
>>> left sitting in the heat for over 1 week. Ken is looking for options
>>> that might work.
>>> So in the end I'm excited about the options Desser is looking to provide
>>> to builders. They already provide the stock tires we all get from Vans
>>> so it makes it that much easier for future builders to get a windscreen,
>>> lens and tires directly from Desser and skip it on the Finish kit list..
>>> What really is exciting is what has developed for the RV-10 in
>>> aftermarket options since I started the project in 2007.
>>> Hope this helps someone. I give this review to help those who still need
>>> to order/replace the Stock Vans parts and let you know there is another
>>> option versus getting it as part of the kit. The only thing I did gain
>>> from this is an exchanged replacement windscreen and wingtip lenses I
>>> gain nothing else.
>>> Pascal
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> *
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: replacement windscreen review |
PS: Especially for retrofit installs....nutplate spacings won't
be the same from plane to plane.
On 12/14/2010 5:43 PM, Pascal wrote:
>
> Site appears to be updated now.
> http://www.vansaircrafttires.com/categories/RV%252d10/.
> There is two options, drilled and countersunk for new builders and
> undrilled for replacements. I suggested they drill the holes so all a
> builder needed to do was position the lens and match drill the lens to
> the wingtip, saves a few steps including getting a better fit.
> Hope that helps!
> Pascal
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: replacement windscreen review |
Personally, I would recommend them NOT predrill all
the holes. I know many builders have varied the number
of holes and nutplates used. I would rather drill them
myself.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
On 12/14/2010 5:43 PM, Pascal wrote:
>
> Site appears to be updated now.
> http://www.vansaircrafttires.com/categories/RV%252d10/.
> There is two options, drilled and countersunk for new builders and
> undrilled for replacements. I suggested they drill the holes so all a
> builder needed to do was position the lens and match drill the lens to
> the wingtip, saves a few steps including getting a better fit.
> Hope that helps!
> Pascal
> ------------------------------------------------
> From: "DLM" <dlm46007@cox.net>
> Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 9:18 AM
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: replacement windscreen review
>
>>
>> I checked the site and did not see the replacement wing tip lens?
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 10:05 AM
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: replacement windscreen review
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I have heard of it from many people along the way over the
>>> years, so it's another one of those "heard it a bunch
>>> of times" (forum users) yet "never heard of it before"
>>> (official company response) things. I did work through it
>>> ok on mine, but it required lots of sanding and I'm sure
>>> I thinned out the windshield in that area after sanding.
>>> Not the most elegant thing. If this Cee Bailey windshield
>>> fits a lot better and has equivalent thickness and specs,
>>> then I think it's a good idea. I know if I ever have
>>> to replace my windshield I will want one that fit better
>>> than my first one, because I'd tear up a lot more
>>> of the forward fuselage trying to glue and fill one
>>> like my first, back in place.
>>>
>>> One of these days I'll have to update and improve my
>>> aftermarket add-ons area on my site to be more inclusive
>>> of everything, and maybe list it in a Kit-by-kit format
>>> so that builders can know what parts to delete from
>>> their order, and buy substitutes, such as the nosewheel,
>>> nosewheel axle, axle extensions, oil coolers for some
>>> people, brake/fairing mounts, and all of those things
>>> that you really probably are best off not installing
>>> the stock item. It may make it easier for people buying
>>> kits to just trim it down quick. Also, if enough people
>>> vote by deleting items from the kits, perhaps they'll
>>> think about why that is, and either change suppliers,
>>> or improve their original parts....or best, include
>>> these things in the kit as standard parts.
>>>
>>>
>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>>> do not archive
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/11/2010 12:30 AM, Pascal wrote:
>>>> Back in October there was a request from Carlos at Cee Baileys asking
>>>> for windscreens they could use to prototype a new replacement
>>>> windscreen.
>>>> http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=63632
>>>>
>>>> I had some concerns with the quality of my windscreen as it simply did
>>>> not fit as well as I would have like. I cut it to the black line and
>>>> did
>>>> everything I could, yet my windscreen had a problem where is bulged out
>>>> over .250 gap on one side (right) I called Vans and they told me it was
>>>> the first they had heard of this..Funny thing is I later discovered Tim
>>>> Olson had the exact same problem mentioned on his webpage.
>>>> I jumped on the offer as Cee Baileys is down the road from me. They
>>>> sent
>>>> out a truck and took my windscreen and wingtip lenses. After two months
>>>> and a couple refits the
>>>> screen was given back and fit into the canopy.
>>>> Vans has the builder on sect 45-08 trim and (retrim) and final trim and
>>>> final fit, etc..in the first two steps (45-18 for the front window
>>>> which
>>>> references one to go back to 45-08) took me hours to get the fit
>>>> decent.
>>>> With the Cee Baileys these two steps are all be removed except for the
>>>> "Final-Trim the perimeter of the front window as required to allow
>>>> it to
>>>> fit into the recess." From the time the windscreen was moved from the
>>>> truck to the time it took to final trim and fit into my canopy was 30
>>>> minutes. The fit was close to perfect, which is normal since it was
>>>> designed to fit all RV-10's with a little room for differences in each
>>>> build. The quality of the Cee Baileys windscreen is excellent, I can't
>>>> imagine there is much difference in the .250 width acrylic, but
>>>> there is
>>>> a difference in the clarity between the two. My understanding is that
>>>> it's in the way the acrylic is stretched and fitted that makes this
>>>> difference. It could also be that one was brand new and had less
>>>> wear on
>>>> it than the Vans one that required me to move back and forth to fit it
>>>> over 12 (probably more) times. Hard to explain this but the new
>>>> windscreen, maybe because it fit, looks much better on the plane than
>>>> the trimmed Vans (warped) windscreen ever did.
>>>>
>>>> The Cee Baileys wingtip lenses (vans VA-193)- Wow! now there this a
>>>> difference in the quality of the plastic. The Vans stock is flimsy and
>>>> feels cheap, the Cee Baileys lens, which BTW are also close to custom
>>>> fitted, for allowance of the fiberglass differences, feel more solid
>>>> and
>>>> "durable". Been told it will outlast the Vans parts 2-3 times.
>>>>
>>>> In both cases I am very happy with what Cee Baileys did for these
>>>> parts,
>>>> they are part of Desser Tires and have setup a webpage for the RV-10, I
>>>> suggested they add the Cee Baileys parts to the Desser web page or as a
>>>> minimum a link on the page for easy future reference.
>>>> http://www.vansaircrafttires.com/categories/RV%252d10/
>>>> On a personal note I have to say that Ken from Desser and Tom Bailey
>>>> were outstanding to work with. They really are interested providing
>>>> parts for the RV's out there and Ken mentioned he was working with
>>>> Rapco
>>>> to get brake pads specially made for the RV-10 so there would be
>>>> another
>>>> option to the builders. Ken has a commitment for early 2011. He told me
>>>> that he will probably offer an introductory price that is far better
>>>> than what is currently offered.
>>>> Another item he mentioned is that they provide upholstery for a OEM
>>>> company. I suggested they consider doing the RV-10 seats as well an
>>>> interior and a other work. I need neither but it may be another great
>>>> option for builders. Lastly, Cee Baileys makes heat deflectors for
>>>> certified aircraft. I asked that they consider making some for the
>>>> RV-10
>>>> which it appears is hard to do without using suction cups and that has
>>>> shown to be a 1 week or less solution, aka they fall off if a plane is
>>>> left sitting in the heat for over 1 week. Ken is looking for options
>>>> that might work.
>>>> So in the end I'm excited about the options Desser is looking to
>>>> provide
>>>> to builders. They already provide the stock tires we all get from Vans
>>>> so it makes it that much easier for future builders to get a
>>>> windscreen,
>>>> lens and tires directly from Desser and skip it on the Finish kit
>>>> list..
>>>> What really is exciting is what has developed for the RV-10 in
>>>> aftermarket options since I started the project in 2007.
>>>> Hope this helps someone. I give this review to help those who still
>>>> need
>>>> to order/replace the Stock Vans parts and let you know there is another
>>>> option versus getting it as part of the kit. The only thing I did gain
>>>> from this is an exchanged replacement windscreen and wingtip lenses I
>>>> gain nothing else.
>>>> Pascal
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Transition Training LODA |
Update:
My insurance guy communicated with the big three underwriters and found that none
of them are requiring specific RV-10 transition trainers. He said there might
still be an occasional issue with an individual pilot, where the carrier might
want some information about the qualification of the instructor the pilot
intends to utilize for transition training. This could be a situation where the
insured is very low time, or the airplane will be flown out of a demanding airstrip,
or some other unique situation. At any rate, my insurance guy said I
should not have any problems in this area.
So, as I said earlier, if you are looking for RV-10 transition training, I am available
in sunny (but pretty chilly right now) Florida.
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323395#323395
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: replacement windscreen review |
Basically they are all undrilled but IF someone orders the countersunk ones
they will be predrilled before shipping. I just figured having the holes
already drilled would help with the final drilling as all the wingtips
should be close to being the same so I suggested it thinking it would help
new builders. For retrofits, no question, undrilled. Hence the two options.
Pascal
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: replacement windscreen review
>
> PS: Especially for retrofit installs....nutplate spacings won't
> be the same from plane to plane.
>
>
> On 12/14/2010 5:43 PM, Pascal wrote:
>>
>> Site appears to be updated now.
>> http://www.vansaircrafttires.com/categories/RV%252d10/.
>> There is two options, drilled and countersunk for new builders and
>> undrilled for replacements. I suggested they drill the holes so all a
>> builder needed to do was position the lens and match drill the lens to
>> the wingtip, saves a few steps including getting a better fit.
>> Hope that helps!
>> Pascal
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: replacement windscreen review |
Sounds like they have it perfect then. :)
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
On 12/14/2010 8:27 PM, Pascal wrote:
>
> Basically they are all undrilled but IF someone orders the countersunk
> ones they will be predrilled before shipping. I just figured having the
> holes already drilled would help with the final drilling as all the
> wingtips should be close to being the same so I suggested it thinking it
> would help new builders. For retrofits, no question, undrilled. Hence
> the two options.
> Pascal
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Transition Training LODA |
Awesome, David, I'm glad they aren't as restrictive as before.
I was only something like #24 flying, so it's easy to understand
how things would change after 300 more RV-10's after me are
flying. This will give some great flexibility in people's
choices as to how far they have to travel for training.
Now if we only had one up this way...
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
On 12/14/2010 7:16 PM, dmaib@me.com wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "dmaib@me.com"<dmaib@me.com>
>
> Update:
> My insurance guy communicated with the big three underwriters and found that
none of them are requiring specific RV-10 transition trainers. He said there might
still be an occasional issue with an individual pilot, where the carrier
might want some information about the qualification of the instructor the pilot
intends to utilize for transition training. This could be a situation where
the insured is very low time, or the airplane will be flown out of a demanding
airstrip, or some other unique situation. At any rate, my insurance guy said
I should not have any problems in this area.
> So, as I said earlier, if you are looking for RV-10 transition training, I am
available in sunny (but pretty chilly right now) Florida.
>
> --------
> David Maib
> RV-10 #40559
>
>
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