Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:54 AM - Re: Motor Mount (johngoodman)
2. 07:06 AM - Motor Mount (Wayne Hadath)
3. 08:14 AM - main spar (Rick Lark)
4. 08:24 AM - main spar (Rick Lark)
5. 08:45 AM - Re: main spar (Thane States)
6. 08:51 AM - Re: main spar (Bob Leffler)
7. 09:33 AM - Re: main spar (Lew Gallagher)
8. 10:17 AM - Re: Re: main spar (Bob Leffler)
9. 10:27 AM - primer, J stiffeners (Rick Lark)
10. 11:25 AM - Attaching Fairing (Les Kearney)
11. 11:59 AM - Re: Attaching Fairing (Linn Walters)
12. 12:04 PM - Re: Attaching Fairing (David Maib)
13. 01:03 PM - Re: Attaching Fairing (Kelly McMullen)
14. 01:07 PM - Alodine Pen (Patrick Pulis)
15. 01:30 PM - Re: main spar (Ron B.)
16. 01:53 PM - Re: Alodine Pen (Bob Leffler)
17. 01:57 PM - Re: Attaching Fairing (Michael Kraus)
18. 02:58 PM - Re: Motor Mount (Bob Turner)
19. 03:40 PM - Re: Attaching Fairing (Les Kearney)
20. 05:52 PM - Re: Alodine Pen (rv10flyer)
21. 06:25 PM - Re: Attaching Fairing (Kelly McMullen)
22. 06:37 PM - Re: Attaching Fairing (Deems Davis)
23. 06:42 PM - Re: Attaching Fairing (dmaib@me.com)
24. 07:14 PM - Re: Re: Attaching Fairing (Kelly McMullen)
25. 07:38 PM - Tail Protection (Kelly McMullen)
26. 07:52 PM - Re: Tail Protection (Deems Davis)
Message 1
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Phil,
I'm no expert, but mine took a little persuasion as well.
John
--------
#40572 Painted and the wings are on.
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324533#324533
Message 2
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Phil
It is fine. Mount away.
Wayne
RV10 85 hrs
F1 Rocket 470 hrs
Message 3
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Hi, happy holidays to all.
-
I am just starting on the main spar (sec 13 steps 7&8) and getting ready to
match drill the "J" stiffeners to the spar flange.- The plans say to "ne
st" the short stiffener on top of the long.- Seems to me they overlap but
far from perfectly.- I'm sure I'm reading this correctly, do others agre
e?
-
Also in sec 13, there is very little mention of the right spar assembly.-
I had intended to do both at the same time.- Anyone see a problem with t
his?
-
Thx.
-
Rick
#40956
Southampton, Ont=0A=0A
Message 4
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Another question guys.
-
How did you treat the holes, countersinks etc in the main spar where the an
odizing was removed?- Seems like a lot of work to spot prime before rivet
ting but if it's necessary then I'll do it (I'm using a "Dupont" epoxy base
d primer).- I could also alodine them which would likely be even more tim
e consuming.- All opinions welcome (although I don't want to start a prim
er war).
Thx and regards.
-
Rick=0A=0A
Message 5
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I just took a q-tip and dipped it in the primer and went along and
coated each countersink one by one. Didn't take very long. I think I
even did 2 coats.
Thane
165 hrs
321BY
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Lark
To: RV10-list
Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2010 11:20 AM
Subject: RV10-List: main spar
Another question guys.
How did you treat the holes, countersinks etc in the main spar
where the anodizing was removed? Seems like a lot of work to spot prime
before rivetting but if it's necessary then I'll do it (I'm using a
"Dupont" epoxy based primer). I could also alodine them which would
likely be even more time consuming. All opinions welcome (although I
don't want to start a primer war).
Thx and regards.
Rick
Message 6
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The j stiffeners should fit well together. If not, one may slightly bent.
What's important is that the flat side mates well to the wing skin, which is
a few steps ahead in the manual. I wouldn't get overly concerned if the "j"
part doesn't perfectly match.
You are discovering the Van's style of plans. In the tail kit, they were
very verbose about everything. As you proceed with the remaining kits, they
assume that you have a solid understanding of left and right components and
standard assembly techniques. They won't mention these in the plans like
they did in the tail kit.
I built both wings at the same time. As long as you have the space, there
isn't an issue.
I used an alodine 1123 pen to touch up the spar where there were
countersinks.
bob
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Lark
Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2010 11:12 AM
Subject: RV10-List: main spar
Hi, happy holidays to all.
I am just starting on the main spar (sec 13 steps 7&8) and getting ready to
match drill the "J" stiffeners to the spar flange. The plans say to "nest"
the short stiffener on top of the long. Seems to me they overlap but far
from perfectly. I'm sure I'm reading this correctly, do others agree?
Also in sec 13, there is very little mention of the right spar assembly. I
had intended to do both at the same time. Anyone see a problem with this?
Thx.
Rick
#40956
Southampton, Ont
Message 7
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Hey Bob,
The 1123 pen sounded great, but quick search shows it to be pricey:
http://www.skygeek.com/henkel-alodine-1132.html
Have you found a better source?
Thanks, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Fly off completed !
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324557#324557
Message 8
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I got mine from Stein several years ago. I haven't kept up on where the
best pricing is today.
Sorry,
bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lew Gallagher
Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2010 12:31 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: main spar
Hey Bob,
The 1123 pen sounded great, but quick search shows it to be pricey:
http://www.skygeek.com/henkel-alodine-1132.html
Have you found a better source?
Thanks, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Fly off completed !
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324557#324557
Message 9
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| Subject: | primer, J stiffeners |
-
Thane, thx for the advise, nice simple solution.- Since I don't have an a
lodine pen it's what I will do.
-
Bob, thx for the confirmation about the J stiffeners.- The area where the
overlapping stiffeners dos not fit tight to the flange was what I was conc
erned about.- I'll just keep going.- I had heard about the way the plan
s don't always reference everything.- Just surprised it starts already.
-
Rick
-
do not archive=0A=0A
Message 10
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| Subject: | Attaching Fairing |
Merry Christmas to All & Happy New Year as well.
Tomorrow I will be fitting the various fairings on the rudder / stab etc. I
was wondering if anyone has used small flat head screws (#6?) to attach
these fairings rather than the CS4-4 pop rivets. If so, how were the nut
plates attached inside the fairings?
Inquiring minds need to know.
Cheers
Les
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Attaching Fairing |
Unless you have something under the fairings to maintain/look at, I'd
put them on permanently. I see no reason to add the labor and weight
...... yet.
Linn
On 12/26/2010 2:20 PM, Les Kearney wrote:
>
> Merry Christmas to All & Happy New Year as well.
>
> Tomorrow I will be fitting the various fairings on the rudder / stab
> etc. I was wondering if anyone has used small flat head screws (#6?)
> to attach these fairings rather than the CS4-4 pop rivets. If so, how
> were the nut plates attached inside the fairings?
>
> Inquiring minds need to know.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
> *
>
> *
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Attaching Fairing |
I used #6 screws on the bottom rudder fairing so that I would have
access to the light and rudder trim wiring. Nutplates are mounted on
a thin strip of aluminum on the inside of the fairing.
David Maib
40559
Flying
On Dec 26, 2010, at 2:20 PM, Les Kearney wrote:
> Merry Christmas to All & Happy New Year as well.
>
> Tomorrow I will be fitting the various fairings on the rudder /
> stab etc. I was wondering if anyone has used small flat head screws
> (#6?) to attach these fairings rather than the CS4-4 pop rivets. If
> so, how were the nut plates attached inside the fairings?
>
> Inquiring minds need to know.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Attaching Fairing |
Les,
I just installed mine today. I went the pricey route. #4 Click bond nut
plates, attached with MS24693C4 SS MACHINE SCREW 440(3/8" length). I got
110 of the nut plates to attach all the fairings except for the HS front
tips, and to attach the baggage door hinge, to make all items removable
if/when desired. These little screws look very similar to the AN flush
rivets adjacent to them..same size head. The nut plates are the big
expense..screws are pennies. I bought them at the same time as the Click
Bond wing tip kit , which uses #6 nut plates(saves on shipping).
http://www.theflightshop.com/Cataspx65.html
Kelly
On 12/26/2010 12:20 PM, Les Kearney wrote:
>
> Merry Christmas to All & Happy New Year as well.
>
> Tomorrow I will be fitting the various fairings on the rudder / stab
> etc. I was wondering if anyone has used small flat head screws (#6?)
> to attach these fairings rather than the CS4-4 pop rivets. If so, how
> were the nut plates attached inside the fairings?
>
> Inquiring minds need to know.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
> *
>
> *
Message 14
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I found that dipping an ear cleaning bud in alodine and then wiping into
=0Acountersunk holes and wiping off any excess, works much better than the
pricey =0Aalodine pen.=0A=0ARegards=0A=0APatrick Pulis=0AAdelaide, South Au
stralia=0A=0A=0A
Message 15
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Rick
This is exactly the biggest mistake I made during the entire construction of our
RV-10. The term nest was so incorrect it gave me a total illusion of what Van's
was trying to accomplish. I envisioned on stiffener nesting into the other.
I hadn't looked forward far enough to see what the task of the stiffeners were
drilled them wrong. Probably the only parts I had to re-order. In case you
haven't figured out yet, the position where you drill the j stiffeners is not
the final assembly location. You drill them there for hole location only. Once
drilled, look at page 16-1 and you will see where they go.
I still cringe when I see the word nest anywhere. A much more appropriate term
as you stated would be overlap. To me "nest" means directly on top, overlap means
one end on top of the other pieces end.
Two years later I'm still mad.Maybe in another two years I'll get over it.
Happy Holidays Ron
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324585#324585
Message 16
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You just need to ensure that you follow the instructions regarding the
type/formulation of alodine used. The alodine in the pen
doesn=99t require a water rinse after application, whereas others
may require a rinse.
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Pulis
Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2010 4:04 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Alodine Pen
I found that dipping an ear cleaning bud in alodine and then wiping into
countersunk holes and wiping off any excess, works much better than the
pricey alodine pen.
Regards
Patrick Pulis
Adelaide, South Australia
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Attaching Fairing |
There is no need to remove any of the empennage fairings. Personally I would rivet
them in per the instructions, then glass over the seam for a smooth transition....
Just one persons advice.
Do not archive
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 26, 2010, at 3:56 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
>
> Les,
> I just installed mine today. I went the pricey route. #4 Click bond nut plates, attached with MS24693C4 SS MACHINE SCREW 440(3/8" length). I got 110 of the nut plates to attach all the fairings except for the HS front tips, and to attach the baggage door hinge, to make all items removable if/when desired. These little screws look very similar to the AN flush rivets adjacent to them..same size head. The nut plates are the big expense..screws are pennies. I bought them at the same time as the Click Bond wing tip kit , which uses #6 nut plates(saves on shipping). http://www.theflightshop.com/Cataspx65.html
> Kelly
>
>
> On 12/26/2010 12:20 PM, Les Kearney wrote:
>>
>> Merry Christmas to All & Happy New Year as well.
>>
>> Tomorrow I will be fitting the various fairings on the rudder / stab etc. I
was wondering if anyone has used small flat head screws (#6?) to attach these
fairings rather than the CS4-4 pop rivets. If so, how were the nut plates attached
inside the fairings?
>>
>> Inquiring minds need to know.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Les
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>
>
>
Message 18
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Vans assured me that it was okay to pull it into alignment. In fact, they said
what I did was okay - I couldn't get it into alignment, just close enough that
all the final holes would be round.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324592#324592
Message 19
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| Subject: | Attaching Fairing |
Linn / Mike
I take your point about just attching per plans. On the other hand, I like
thge idea of being able to remove / replace for inspections etc. As well, in
the case of the rudder fairing, there will be wires to access however
infrequently. I like David's idea - it is simple and inexpensive.
Cheers
Les
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: December-26-10 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Attaching Fairing
Unless you have something under the fairings to maintain/look at, I'd put
them on permanently. I see no reason to add the labor and weight ......
yet.
Linn
On 12/26/2010 2:20 PM, Les Kearney wrote:
Merry Christmas to All & Happy New Year as well.
Tomorrow I will be fitting the various fairings on the rudder / stab etc. I
was wondering if anyone has used small flat head screws (#6?) to attach
these fairings rather than the CS4-4 pop rivets. If so, how were the nut
plates attached inside the fairings?
Inquiring minds need to know.
Cheers
Les
Message 20
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I got my Alodine pen from SteinAir. I also use it for grounding/bonding connections
to help prevent corrosion.
--------
Wayne Gillispie, A&P 5/93, PPC 10/08
Bldr# 40983 SB
Fuselage 9/21/10- Sec 33 Baggage Area
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324612#324612
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Attaching Fairing |
That is a matter of opinion, not necessarily true for everyone. If either
the elevators or rudder ever need re-balancing, like after any painting,
those fairings will have to come off. If you later want a VOR antenna on top
of the vertical stab, the fairing will need to come off. Or if you want to
stick a GPS or ADS-B antenna up there, off comes the fairing. Good luck
doing that after you have glassed over the rivets and don't know where they
are to drill out. Not all of us are good enough to build the plane
perfectly in every way, the first time. Things do change, needs change, over
time.
Kelly
On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 2:54 PM, Michael Kraus
<n223rv@wolflakeairport.net>wrote:
> >
>
> There is no need to remove any of the empennage fairings. Personally I
> would rivet them in per the instructions, then glass over the seam for a
> smooth transition....
>
> Just one persons advice.
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Attaching Fairing |
Add to that, you are GUARANTEED to load/unload 2 people at the same
time, and rock the plane back on its tail, and potentially damage the
lower rudder fairing. I swore that I would NEVER do this, until on a
trip to No, Cal this summer with 200 hrs on the plane, at a fuel stop, I
was in a hurry to find a restroom, and sure enough......
Luckily, I never take my tie-down rings out, and that protected the
fairing, but I know of others who have not been so lucky. The
embarrassment was enough to 'remind' me for the next 200 hours.
Deems
On 12/26/2010 7:20 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
> That is a matter of opinion, not necessarily true for everyone. If
> either the elevators or rudder ever need re-balancing, like after any
> painting, those fairings will have to come off. If you later want a
> VOR antenna on top of the vertical stab, the fairing will need to come
> off. Or if you want to stick a GPS or ADS-B antenna up there, off
> comes the fairing. Good luck doing that after you have glassed over
> the rivets and don't know where they are to drill out. Not all of us
> are good enough to build the plane perfectly in every way, the first
> time. Things do change, needs change, over time.
> Kelly
>
> On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 2:54 PM, Michael Kraus
> <n223rv@wolflakeairport.net <mailto:n223rv@wolflakeairport.net>> wrote:
>
> <n223rv@wolflakeairport.net <mailto:n223rv@wolflakeairport.net>>
>
> There is no need to remove any of the empennage fairings.
> Personally I would rivet them in per the instructions, then glass
> over the seam for a smooth transition....
>
> Just one persons advice.
>
> *
>
> *
--
Deems Davis
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Attaching Fairing |
I did not learn about Click Bond products until I had already installed the nutplates
on the lower rudder fairing. If I was doing it again, I would definitely
use Click Bond and would probably use them on all of the tip fairings just for
things like repainting and antennas as mentioned by Kelly. I am a big fan of
Click Bond products, even though they are a bit pricey. I have used them with
great success in areas where installing a riveted nutplate would be difficult
if not impossible. Careful preparation of the surface to be bonded is imperative.
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324620#324620
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Attaching Fairing |
The biggest advantage of Click Bond products is the time savings. No
nutplate holes to drill and deburr. No extra holes in fiberglass to
propagate cracks. I put all of 10 min prep on the parts beyond what the
plans call for, mostly sanding and chemical wipe to ensure surface the
adhesive would bond to. Less than 30 min to install 100 nutplates, less
than 1 hour total with prep, install and clean up. Wait 24 hours to cure,
then pull the silicone rubber fixtures and install parts. I couldn't have
riveted the nut plates in double the time, nut counting drilling and
deburring.
On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 7:40 PM, dmaib@me.com <dmaib@me.com> wrote:
>
> I did not learn about Click Bond products until I had already installed the
> nutplates on the lower rudder fairing. If I was doing it again, I would
> definitely use Click Bond and would probably use them on all of the tip
> fairings just for things like repainting and antennas as mentioned by Kelly.
> I am a big fan of Click Bond products, even though they are a bit pricey. I
> have used them with great success in areas where installing a riveted
> nutplate would be difficult if not impossible. Careful preparation of the
> surface to be bonded is imperative.
>
> --------
> David Maib
> RV-10 #40559
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324620#324620
>
>
Message 25
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Deems, any thought to putting a C150 style tail skid under the tiedown
ring? Just contemplating ways to protect the tail from the inevitable.
On 12/26/2010 7:34 PM, Deems Davis wrote:
> Add to that, you are GUARANTEED to load/unload 2 people at the same
> time, and rock the plane back on its tail, and potentially damage the
> lower rudder fairing. I swore that I would NEVER do this, until on a
> trip to No, Cal this summer with 200 hrs on the plane, at a fuel stop,
> I was in a hurry to find a restroom, and sure enough......
>
> Luckily, I never take my tie-down rings out, and that protected the
> fairing, but I know of others who have not been so lucky. The
> embarrassment was enough to 'remind' me for the next 200 hours.
>
> Deems *==================================================
> **v
> *
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Tail Protection |
I don't think anything additional is necessary, the tie down ring works
well if it's left installed, I suppose that if you were parked in an
area where the surface was full of potholes and the tie down ring fell
into one of those, it would allow the rudder fairing to hit the ground,
but that's a lot of IF's. Adding an additional protection is not worth
the additional risk reduction IMO.
Deems
On 12/26/2010 8:34 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> Deems, any thought to putting a C150 style tail skid under the tiedown
> ring? Just contemplating ways to protect the tail from the inevitable.
>
>
> On 12/26/2010 7:34 PM, Deems Davis wrote:
>> Add to that, you are GUARANTEED to load/unload 2 people at the same
>> time, and rock the plane back on its tail, and potentially damage the
>> lower rudder fairing. I swore that I would NEVER do this, until on a
>> trip to No, Cal this summer with 200 hrs on the plane, at a fuel
>> stop, I was in a hurry to find a restroom, and sure enough......
>>
>> Luckily, I never take my tie-down rings out, and that protected the
>> fairing, but I know of others who have not been so lucky. The
>> embarrassment was enough to 'remind' me for the next 200 hours.
>>
>> Deems *==================================================
>> **v
>> *
>
>
--
Deems Davis
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