Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:57 AM - Re: Potential BIG trouble with GPS...keep those nav radios! (Miller John)
2. 09:42 AM - Re: Potential BIG trouble with GPS...keep those nav radios! (Lenny Iszak)
3. 11:10 AM - Re: Experience with paint - off RV10 topic (Jerry Stark)
4. 12:26 PM - Re: Experience with paint - off RV10 topic (Linn Walters)
5. 01:55 PM - Re: Experience with paint - off RV10 topic (Bill Watson)
6. 01:58 PM - Re: Experience with paint - off RV10 topic (Lew Gallagher)
7. 02:06 PM - OMG, u there. (John Cram)
8. 02:26 PM - Re: Re: Experience with paint - off RV10 topic (Dick Gurley)
9. 08:03 PM - Winter and wheel pants (Sheldon Olesen)
10. 11:11 PM - Re: Landing gear shake (Scott Schmidt)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Potential BIG trouble with GPS...keep those nav radios! |
Most disturbing. I saw another article on this earlier in the week.
I sent the info to my Congressman and asked him to start asking questions.
I urge others to do the same.
Something doesn't smell right here.
grumpy
do not archive
On Feb 5, 2011, at 1:23 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Check out this article....especially the effects on certified (i read that as
"sensitive" GPS's)
>
> http://www.gpsworld.com/gnss-system/news/data-shows-disastrous-gps-jamming-fcc-approved-broadcaster-11029?utm_source=GPS&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Navigate_01_31_2011&utm_content=data-shows-disastrous-gps-jamming-fcc-approved-broadcaster-11029
>
> Tim
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Potential BIG trouble with GPS...keep those nav radios! |
Hahh, that seems to be getting approved a little faster than ELTs...
He who has the money...
The good news is that we'll be receiving broadband on our 430s, and we could navigate
off their 40,000 towers, like Loran...
Lenny
do not archive
Tim Olson wrote:
> Check out this article....especially the effects on certified (i read that as
"sensitive" GPS's)
>
> http://www.gpsworld.com/gnss-system/news/data-shows-disastrous-gps-jamming-fcc-approved-broadcaster-11029?utm_source=GPS&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Navigate_01_31_2011&utm_content=data-shows-disastrous-gps-jamming-fcc-approved-broadcaster-11029
>
> Tim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329738#329738
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Experience with paint - off RV10 topic |
It will take more than 30 minutes to finish the first coat on an airplane.
you should be able to return to where you started and continue spraying.
--- On Fri, 2/4/11, Linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net> wrote:
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Experience with paint - off RV10 topic
I know this is far more info than you asked for ...... but hopefully others
might benefit.
Two things make a great paint job .... preparation and ..... practice.- P
ractice on your current airplane and you'll be way ahead when you get to th
e -10.
The best job would be a strip and paint ..... sand and paint leaves a lot o
f extra weight on the airframe.
Work on filling dings and deep scratches ..... the smallest imperfection sh
ows up in the paint.
Choose your base color ..... I like white ..... even if you're going to pai
nt over almost all of it.- It'll give even color presentation everywhere.
Use 3M Fineline masking tape .... green for straight lines, blue for curves
.- Use paint masking paper.- Newspaper doesn't hack it.- The paint jo
b is not the place to save money.
Get a good paint gun.- Yup, I've used HF paint guns, but you get what you
pay for, and a quality tool will not let you down.
Mix the paint, reducer and catalyst.- I like to reduce the paint a little
more than recommended.- Not a lot.- A little.- Use the proper reduce
r for the temperature you'll spray in.- Wait 30 minutes.- They call thi
s 'induction time'.- I don't know why it matters whether the induction ti
me occurs in the spray gun pot or on the airplane .... but it does.
Use a tack cloth everywhere!!!!- Change the cloth often.- They're cheap
and really help a nice paint job.
Spray a tack coat .... really, really, light.- Wait about 30 minutes.
Spray a light cross coat.- Wait 30 minutes.
Spray a second cross coat.
Look carefully at your paint job for- - Throw away that paint left in t
he spray gun.- Resist the urge to spray it on the plane.- All it adds i
s weight .... and sags.- Clean up the equipment and go home.
Did you notice the 'Wait 30 minutes'????- I found that if you scrimp on t
he 30 minutes, the possibility of runs and sags goes way up.- A professio
nal painter may not do this, but I'm not a pro painter and don't play one o
n TV.- No matter how many times I stayed at a Holiday Inn ..... I still n
eeded that time.
Best of luck .... and post the pictures when you get done.
Linn
On 2/4/2011 8:24 PM, rngurley wrote:
> -->- RV10-List message posted by: "rngurley"<rngurley@att.net>
>
> I am getting ready to paint my current aircraft.- Does anyone have expe
rience with PPG or Dupont (Imron) paint?- Unfortunately, my RV10 in not r
eady to paint - and probably will not be for some time.- Thank you in adv
ance for any comments.
>
> Dick Gurley
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329675#329675
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
le, List Admin.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Experience with paint - off RV10 topic |
Good point Jerry!!! I don't paint everything at once. Wings and tail
feathers off so I can turn them or hang them to get both sides etc.
Fuselage by itself etc. I've never had the room to paint an airplane
assembled. I don't mind taking the time since removing sags and runs is
a lot more time consuming. Also, remember that I'm not a pro ......
Trim paint applied same way, with masking paper and plastic sheet to
protect other areas from overspray. Successive coats start in the same
place, so the oldest paint may be 1 hour (or more) 'old'. Urethanes
have a long pot life if mixed correctly and have the correct reducer, so
the spraying time isn't a factor. I use the 'break' for some liquid for
me and mix more paint. Oh yeah, as someone said .... use a real good
paint face mask with both a cloth and carbon filter. I don't care for
the fresh air hoods/masks because I always seem to catch the hose on
something. It would, of course, be better.
Linn
On 2/5/2011 2:07 PM, Jerry Stark wrote:
> It will take more than 30 minutes to finish the first coat on an
> airplane. you should be able to return to where you started and
> continue spraying.
>
> --- On *Fri, 2/4/11, Linn Walters /<pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>/* wrote:
>
>
> From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Experience with paint - off RV10 topic
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Date: Friday, February 4, 2011, 7:55 PM
>
> <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net </mc/compose?to=pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>>
>
> I know this is far more info than you asked for ...... but
> hopefully others might benefit.
> Two things make a great paint job .... preparation and .....
> practice. Practice on your current airplane and you'll be way
> ahead when you get to the -10.
> The best job would be a strip and paint ..... sand and paint
> leaves a lot of extra weight on the airframe.
> Work on filling dings and deep scratches ..... the smallest
> imperfection shows up in the paint.
>
> Choose your base color ..... I like white ..... even if you're
> going to paint over almost all of it. It'll give even color
> presentation everywhere.
> Use 3M Fineline masking tape .... green for straight lines, blue
> for curves. Use paint masking paper. Newspaper doesn't hack it.
> The paint job is not the place to save money.
>
> Get a good paint gun. Yup, I've used HF paint guns, but you get
> what you pay for, and a quality tool will not let you down.
>
> Mix the paint, reducer and catalyst. I like to reduce the paint a
> little more than recommended. Not a lot. A little. Use the
> proper reducer for the temperature you'll spray in. Wait 30
> minutes. They call this 'induction time'. I don't know why it
> matters whether the induction time occurs in the spray gun pot or
> on the airplane .... but it does.
>
> Use a tack cloth everywhere!!!! Change the cloth often. They're
> cheap and really help a nice paint job.
> Spray a tack coat .... really, really, light. Wait about 30 minutes.
> Spray a light cross coat. Wait 30 minutes.
> Spray a second cross coat.
> Look carefully at your paint job for Throw away that paint left
> in the spray gun. Resist the urge to spray it on the plane. All
> it adds is weight .... and sags. Clean up the equipment and go home.
>
> Did you notice the 'Wait 30 minutes'???? I found that if you
> scrimp on the 30 minutes, the possibility of runs and sags goes
> way up. A professional painter may not do this, but I'm not a pro
> painter and don't play one on TV. No matter how many times I
> stayed at a Holiday Inn ..... I still needed that time.
> Best of luck .... and post the pictures when you get done.
> Linn
>
>
> On 2/4/2011 8:24 PM, rngurley wrote:
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: "rngurley"<rngurley@att.net
> </mc/compose?to=rngurley@att.net>>
> >
> > I am getting ready to paint my current aircraft. Does anyone
> have experience with PPG or Dupont (Imron) paint? Unfortunately,
> my RV10 in not ready to paint - and probably will not be for some
> time. Thank you in advance for any comments.
> >
> > Dick Gurley
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329675#329675
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> &cs.com/Navigator?RV10-List"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navi -
> MATRONICS WEB href="http://forums.matronics.com"
> target="_blank">http://forums.matrobsp; - List
> Contribution Web Site -http://w======================
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>
> *
>
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Experience with paint - off RV10 topic |
I'm half way through painting my '10. Cold temperatures brought me to a
halt. I figure I'll be back up and running in about 3 weeks.
I've documented some of it on my log here:
http://www.mykitlog.com/users/category.php?user=MauleDriver&project=224&category=5986
This being a first attempt, I certainly don't know what I'm talking
about. Just learning, making observations and projections based on one
incomplete experience.
I'm using a Dupont Imron Elite - that seems to be the current Imron
product line. Imron is a big brand with a lot of history. Seems to be
a very high quality line of paint. Things said about previous
iterations of Imron dont necessarily apply so be cautious of all Web advice.
I've gone with a single stage paint rather than a base coat/clear coat -
both have advantages.
There are detailed manufacturers data sheets for all products. They are
on the Web and your local paint supplier will have them. I suggest
reading them and treating them as gospel before listening to any other
advice. It's in the manufacturers best interest to have their products
perform well and to be used optimally. The only notable exception I
found surrounds regulations around VOCs (the poison stuff your going to
spray all over the place). A little reading between the lines can help
get slightly better results, i.e. don't be afraid to thin stuff a bit
more than spec'd.
Urethane paints are highly toxic. Hang around a paint distributor for a
few hours and you'll start to see some of the effects. The toxicity
apparently caught some of the old hands by surprise. Ventilation is
good, fresh air to breath mandatory in my opinion. I like my fresh
air system so much I often use it when sanding fiberglass.
Pay attention to data sheets - things like 30 min induction time is
mandatory for some paints (e.g. epoxies), not for others. Temperature
ranges seem to be important - keeping the aircraft AND the paint within
the range eliminates a lot of problems.. If they say spray one light
coat, wait, they spray full coat - do it for best results. If they say
spray two full coats as a cross coat, do that.
Having a paint supplier that is local and accessible is more important
than the brand of paint in my opinion. Unless you go with one of the
folks that specialize in serving homebuilders. Loehle has documented a
lot of good stuff even though I'm not using his system. He has a good
pin hole filler product.
The good news is that the modern paints are tough and look great. But
you really don't want to get any on something you don't want it on - it
won't come off easily. Your neighbors will not like any overspray. I
wonder what refinishing is like for an aircraft painted with Imron -
cant imagine that it strips... does it?
Paint guns - A pro-grade HVLP setup seem optimal. By pro grade I mean
$$$$ with clean high pressure air to the gun and pressure reduction done
in the head. Watching the local pros use there equipment with Imron is
entirely different than what I'm doing. I have a high quality HVLP gun
with a combination low pressure turbine and fresh air system from
Aircraft spruce. Everything you need for about $1,000. I can get good
results but not as easily or as productively as the pros around the
corner from me. An old style high pressure system will work with this
paint too by most accounts (I don't really know). The old pros will
swear by it (because it's what they know). You'll waste a lot more
paint. The stuff can get very expensive, especially in the fancy
colors. You'll throw off a lot more toxic, sticky stuff.
Practice practice, and I don't necessarily mean just with the gun.
Prep, mixing, everything benefits from practice. Like every job on a
first home build, by the time you finish it, you probably have become
competent in it. Unlike other jobs (riveting), your early mistakes can
be hard to hide. Practice on something else first can be a good thing.
Everyone will tell you that it's 90% prep and 10% paint - it's a lie.
It's 99% prep for a top notch job.
Anyway, I swore I'd never paint. I'm doing it anyway. I'm loving it.
Bill
On 2/4/2011 8:24 PM, rngurley wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "rngurley"<rngurley@att.net>
>
> I am getting ready to paint my current aircraft. Does anyone have experience
with PPG or Dupont (Imron) paint? Unfortunately, my RV10 in not ready to paint
- and probably will not be for some time. Thank you in advance for any comments.
>
> Dick Gurley
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Experience with paint - off RV10 topic |
Hey Dick,
>From the replies you've received and your response, I think you'll do just fine
-- just don't blow yourself up trying to heat your paint both with open flame
in cool weather!!
Your original query was about Imron vs. PPG. When Imron first came out many years
ago, it was the rage cuz it was so tough. Then urethane base/clear came out,
and for some reason the car painters (around here at least) never used Imron
again. I started painting after Imron was no longer in vogue, and I used PPG
with great results for years. Then my supplier got tired of PPG's high expense
and now only deals in Dupont -- so Dupont is what I've been using lately.
As I'm writing this, I'm waiting the 30 minutes between the second and third blue
stripe coat -- Wes trashed his nosewheel pants in a hard landing, so I'm finishing
up a new one. I'll include a couple pics of these steps. I've taken
pictures of the process from patching the fiberglass (he landed with a low air
nosewheel in a trial fit and the tire caught just enough of the back of the glass
to break it out) to present -- so if anyone is interested I can send or post
all of them.
This is Dupont's Centari Acrylic Enamel with gloss hardener added. I like it (or
urethane enalmel) better than base/clear for the plane due to the weight of
clear, and the ease of touching up the one step paints.
One more comment: As you can see, I also paint in pieces in my backyard shop,
and I still use lots of newspaper for these small pieces, covering windows, etc.
But for covering the fuse and wings for doing stripe work, I agree that plastic
or roll paper is the way to go.
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Fly off completed !
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329774#329774
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/bluestripe_medium_116.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/stripestaped_medium_798.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/white_medium_131.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/holesfilled_medium_182.jpg
Message 7
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how have you been doing? I saw this Acai Berry stuff that is really amazing
. I have been feeling fantastic ever since i have been taking it. finally d
iscovered a way to lose weight that works and is really good for you! check
out this article about it if you want to learn more about it and buy some
http://health.com/health . You can get from that page for really cheap. I s
howed it to a few buddies already and they were thanking me earlier saying
they lost 6lbs in under a week so I figured I would fill you in also =3B-)
The stuff is crazy. A lot of great info on that site but lemme know if you
have any questions about it.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Experience with paint - off RV10 topic |
Thank you to all! This has been a great help.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lew Gallagher
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 4:57 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Experience with paint - off RV10 topic
Hey Dick,
>From the replies you've received and your response, I think you'll do just
fine -- just don't blow yourself up trying to heat your paint both with open
flame in cool weather!!
Your original query was about Imron vs. PPG. When Imron first came out many
years ago, it was the rage cuz it was so tough. Then urethane base/clear
came out, and for some reason the car painters (around here at least) never
used Imron again. I started painting after Imron was no longer in vogue,
and I used PPG with great results for years. Then my supplier got tired of
PPG's high expense and now only deals in Dupont -- so Dupont is what I've
been using lately.
As I'm writing this, I'm waiting the 30 minutes between the second and third
blue stripe coat -- Wes trashed his nosewheel pants in a hard landing, so
I'm finishing up a new one. I'll include a couple pics of these steps.
I've taken pictures of the process from patching the fiberglass (he landed
with a low air nosewheel in a trial fit and the tire caught just enough of
the back of the glass to break it out) to present -- so if anyone is
interested I can send or post all of them.
This is Dupont's Centari Acrylic Enamel with gloss hardener added. I like
it (or urethane enalmel) better than base/clear for the plane due to the
weight of clear, and the ease of touching up the one step paints.
One more comment: As you can see, I also paint in pieces in my backyard
shop, and I still use lots of newspaper for these small pieces, covering
windows, etc. But for covering the fuse and wings for doing stripe work, I
agree that plastic or roll paper is the way to go.
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Fly off completed !
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329774#329774
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/bluestripe_medium_116.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/stripestaped_medium_798.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/white_medium_131.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/holesfilled_medium_182.jpg
Message 9
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| Subject: | Winter and wheel pants |
Last year I left my wheel pants on for the entire winter.
Unfortunately, ice chunks formed in the space behind the tires. The
rotation of the tires hurled the chunks around inside the wheel pants
and caused the paint to crack and chip from the inside. Last spring I
repainted all 3 pants. I didn't want to repeat the painting but I
wanted to keep the main gear strut fairings in place so I came up with
this solution.
The fiberglass was laid up over the wheel pant using duct tape for the
separation medium. Each hole on the wheel pant was marked with a
sharpie to keep the alignment of the strut correct. I used 4 layers of
bidirectional cloth. The layup is in 2 pieces. They were done
simultaneously. The aft piece was laid up first. I used 2 pieces of
duct placed adhesive side to adhesive side to separate the two pieces.
The duct tape was placed on the forward edge of the aft layup and the
forward layup was done over the duct tape. After the glass was laid up
I ran a nail through each black sharpie mark trying to keep the nail
hole centered on the screw hole. I then drilled to the correct size and
added nut plates. I'm not going to paint these--the sun is too low to
damage them and they are not outside for long.
I flew the setup today and noticed no adverse effects. It has been so
long since I flew without wheel pants and gear fairings I don't know
exactly how much the airspeed is affected and what the difference
between the two setups would be. I read somewhere that most of the drag
comes from the gear struts so I'm sure it helps some, but how much I
can't quantify.
Sheldon Olesen
N475PV 238 hours
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Landing gear shake |
I have posted on this topic before.
Mine does the exact same at the same speeds as does many other RV-10's.
Sometimes balancing the tire fixes/helps, sometimes different tires, pressur
es, ect.
I have tried most with no success. I have talked with Van about it and he in
dicated that his personal plane even did it. I have also heard that when peo
ple installed the wheel pants it started. It all comes down to a poor gear d
esign. A round gear leg is not the optimal design for a landing gear but is t
he cheapest shape from a manufacturing point of view.
It is not the caliper either. Even if I slow down with no braking it occurs.
I can replicate it on the ground with one wheel jacked up and use my buffer
to get the wheel up to 50 mph and when it slows to around 25 mph, it shakes
. It is the system hitting a natural frequency.
Van said people have put a block of wood on the backside of other RV models t
o stop it.
I spent a considerable amount of time re-drilling my gear legs to get the ex
act toe-in on both sides and it did not change one thing. I have tried two d
ifferent sets of tires, pressures from 25-60 psi all with no luck. My next p
lan, when I get to it, is to install the wheel pant spacers from PlaneAround
.com and start stiffening the wheel pant to the gear. Then I will start find
ing a good way change the moment of inertia of the gear leg, stiffening it i
n the front to back direction.
I've been told by Vans not to worry about it. Just think of it as a massage w
ith every landing.
I will find a way to eliminate it though.
Let me know if you find anything out.
Thanks, Scott
On Jan 23, 2011, at 6:40 PM, "Roger Standley" <taildragon@msn.com> wrote:
>
> Today I was able to have a guy observe the gear up close as I was landing.
I have been feeling a shake during roll out below 30 mph. Sometimes not too
much but sometimes significant. Applying brakes seems to make it worse but n
othing will make it stop until slowing below 20 mph. Speeds above 30 mph are
smooth. He said that the left main was shaking and it looked to be rapidly m
oving forward and back.
> Are others noticing this shaking? Is there a fix or a way to minimize the s
haking that anyone has discovered?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Roger Standley
> N291RV
> 165 hours
>
>
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