Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:33 AM - Re: AFS Engine Monitor - % Power info (orchidman)
2. 05:59 AM - Re: Re: AFS Engine Monitor - % Power info (Byron)
3. 06:00 AM - Install time for safety trim (Robert Brunkenhoefer)
4. 06:18 AM - Re: Install time for safety trim (Tim Olson)
5. 10:00 AM - Re: Install time for safety trim (Byron)
6. 11:15 AM - East of Mississippi (Albert Gardner)
7. 12:44 PM - Re: Install time for safety trim (Robert Brunkenhoefer)
8. 12:49 PM - Re: East of Mississippi (Kelly McMullen)
9. 01:07 PM - Re: East of Mississippi (carl.froehlich@verizon.net)
10. 01:36 PM - Re: Aircraft Spruce Shipping - Always Beware (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
11. 02:44 PM - Re: Fairing Construction - How to? (nukeflyboy)
12. 02:59 PM - Re: Re: Fairing Construction - How to? (Tim Olson)
13. 03:05 PM - Re: Re: Fairing Construction - How to? (Rene Felker)
14. 05:54 PM - Re: Re: Fairing Construction - How to? (John Cumins)
15. 06:57 PM - Re: Re: Main gear weldment too small (Roxanne and Mike Lefever)
16. 07:15 PM - Re: Fairing Construction - How to? (nukeflyboy)
17. 07:44 PM - Re: Re: Fairing Construction - How to? (John Cox)
18. 07:54 PM - Re: Re: Main gear weldment too small (John Cox)
19. 08:33 PM - Re: Re: Fairing Construction - How to? (Robin Marks)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: AFS Engine Monitor - % Power info |
Byron,
Have you input the settings from the manual?
If you don't have the problem expressed by recapen, then if you have an IO-540
the settings are in the manual.
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
(N2GB Flying)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343743#343743
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: AFS Engine Monitor - % Power info |
Got it.
Just downloaded updated manual and now the tables are included.
Thanks for the reply,
Byron
------Original Message------
From: orchidman
Sender: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
ReplyTo: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Re: AFS Engine Monitor - % Power info
Sent: Jun 22, 2011 7:29 AM
Byron,
Have you input the settings from the manual?
If you don't have the problem expressed by recapen, then if you have an IO-540
the settings are in the manual.
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
(N2GB Flying)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343743#343743
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Message 3
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| Subject: | Install time for safety trim |
I am having safety trim installed and my avionics man never did this one before.
How long should it take. I have victory grips and a toggle switch to control
the copilot activation. Robert N661G 300Hrs.
Robert Brunkenhoefer
Sent from my Apple iPad
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Install time for safety trim |
I'd say it takes.....as much time it takes to complete it.
You now own an experimental, and your plane is probably
not identical to ANY other RV-10. Your wiring isn't
the same, your connectors may not be the same, where the
wires need to be connected wouldn't be the same,
and everything. It could take a couple hours, if you
had everything laid out for them, and convenient
connections, and had an accurate and clean wiring
diagram for them to follow. It could take them
a couple days, if they aren't provided with anything
to go on. I think it took me maybe 2-4 hours, but
I knew exactly where I was going to mount the box,
and knew which wires I was going to tap, and knew
where I was going to get power from, and mount the
panel switch.
So there's no real way to say....the actual wiring
is simple. The plane they have to wire it into
might not make it so simple.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
On 6/22/2011 7:56 AM, Robert Brunkenhoefer wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Robert Brunkenhoefer<robertbrunk@me.com>
>
> I am having safety trim installed and my avionics man never did this one before.
How long should it take. I have victory grips and a toggle switch to control
the copilot activation. Robert N661G 300Hrs.
>
> Robert Brunkenhoefer
> Sent from my Apple iPad
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Install time for safety trim |
I did mine in around 2 hours including mounting board and switch- but I was replacing
another trim relay board so all the wires were there and I had excellent
wire schematics from the panel builder (Stein). As Tim mentioned there are lots
of variations in design and build. Running new wires etc would lengthen the
operation significantly.
Byron
N253RV - Phase One
------Original Message------
From: Robert Brunkenhoefer
Sender: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
ReplyTo: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Install time for safety trim
Sent: Jun 22, 2011 8:56 AM
I am having safety trim installed and my avionics man never did this one before.
How long should it take. I have victory grips and a toggle switch to control
the copilot activation. Robert N661G 300Hrs.
Robert Brunkenhoefer
Sent from my Apple iPad
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Message 6
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| Subject: | East of Mississippi |
After leaving OSH the wife and I plan on flying all the states east of the
Mississippi river to complete the lower 48. Will be stopping over in NYC for
5 or 6 days and then flying south. I'd like to fly the Hudson River Corridor
so I thought that leaving the plane for those days at Westchester County
(HPN) or Teterboro (TEB). Has anyone landed at either of those two or flown
the corridor? Looks like fun. Took the FAA on-line driving course for NY and
Washington SFRA and have placard with "Don't Shoot" in large letters to hold
up to the window. Tim's excursions have motivated me to head off into what
we in the Mountain States called "Babylon".
Albert Gardner
N991RV
Yuma, AZ (not a mountain state)
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Install time for safety trim |
Thank you for the input. Robert
On Jun 22, 2011, at 11:54 AM, Byron wrote:
>
> I did mine in around 2 hours including mounting board and switch- but I was replacing
another trim relay board so all the wires were there and I had excellent
wire schematics from the panel builder (Stein). As Tim mentioned there are
lots of variations in design and build. Running new wires etc would lengthen
the operation significantly.
>
> Byron
> N253RV - Phase One
> ------Original Message------
> From: Robert Brunkenhoefer
> Sender: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> ReplyTo: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Install time for safety trim
> Sent: Jun 22, 2011 8:56 AM
>
>
> I am having safety trim installed and my avionics man never did this one before.
How long should it take. I have victory grips and a toggle switch to control
the copilot activation. Robert N661G 300Hrs.
>
> Robert Brunkenhoefer
> Sent from my Apple iPad
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: East of Mississippi |
CDW will be cheaper for overnight fees, although there is a landing fee
which the town will bill you a month or two down the road. If you like
smaller airports, Lincoln Park is also close by...don't know about their
fees, but parking space is relatively limited, so call ahead. NYC terminal
chart is essential.
On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Albert Gardner <ibspud@roadrunner.com>wro
te:
> *After leaving OSH the wife and I plan on flying all the states east of t
he Mississippi river to complete the lower 48. Will be stopping over in NYC
for 5 or 6 days and then flying south. I=92d like to fly the Hudson River
Corridor so I thought that leaving the plane for those days at Westchester
County (HPN) or Teterboro (TEB). Has anyone landed at either of those two o
r flown the corridor? Looks like fun. Took the FAA on-line driving course f
or NY and Washington SFRA and have placard with =93Don=92t Shoot=94 in larg
e letters to hold up to the window. Tim=92s excursions have motivated me to
head off into what we in the Mountain States called =93Babylon=94.*
>
> *Albert Gardner*
>
> *N991RV*
>
> *Yuma, AZ (not a mountain state)*
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: East of Mississippi |
SSBsYW5kZWQgYXQgSFBOIG9uIGEgdHJpcCB0byBTdGFtZm9yZCwgQ1QuICBSZWFzb25hYmxlIHBs
YWNlIGFuZCBnb29kIHNlcnZpY2UuICBJIGZsZXcgdGhlIEh1ZHNvbiBDb3JyaWRvciBvbiB0aGUg
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ICJEb24ndCBTaG9vdCIgaW4gbGFyZ2UgbGV0dGVycyB0byBob2xkCnVwIHRvIHRoZSB3aW5kb3cu
IFRpbSdzIGV4Y3Vyc2lvbnMgaGF2ZSBtb3RpdmF0ZWQgbWUgdG8gaGVhZCBvZmYgaW50byB3aGF0
CndlIGluIHRoZSBNb3VudGFpbiBTdGF0ZXMgY2FsbGVkICJCYWJ5bG9uIi4KQWxiZXJ0IEdhcmRu
ZXIKTjk5MVJWCll1bWEsIEFaIChub3QgYSBtb3VudGFpbiBzdGF0ZSkKIAogCgo
Message 10
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| Subject: | Aircraft Spruce Shipping - Always Beware |
There used to be a West store just down the road in the strip mall area off of
9th for anyone going to Airventure. If that one closed we still have one on
College Ave in Appleton if you have a car. Stock up there if shipping rates
are getting that silly and you don't have one locally.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick & Vicki Sipp
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aircraft Spruce Shipping - Always Beware
--> <rsipp@earthlink.net>
Tim:
West System products are very popular in boating world, any bigger boat dealer
will probably have what you need, there should plenty of them in your area. I
buy it locally.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Olson
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 10:18 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Aircraft Spruce Shipping - Always Beware
So yesterday I ordered up my fiberglass cloth and some West System epoxy since
mine isn't good any longer. I called ACS before I hit enter on the order because
it said Hazard by the line items. I called and they said that it wouldn't
have hazardous fees, for such and such a reason. No worries. My other line
items were 4 or 5 different weights and types of Glass cloth, so I could have
some variety for things if I wanted. Total weight maybe should have been 5 lbs
or so maybe, tops.
With no hazardous fees, I was happy and good to go.
Got a call after ordering (a voicemail) and a nice lady said she changed my shipping
from 3-day to ground, because Ground would be the same speed from their
GA location, and it would prevent hazardous fees if it went by air, and it would
save me some money. Still all good.
Got my invoice, and it was almost $50 in shipping.
Called to figure out why. Just found out...
They shipped in 2 boxes, with the epoxy separate, to keep it away from the cloth..perhaps
a flammability issue. no big deal...2 boxes should be cheap.
Where they went haywire was the cloth, of all things.
I had ordered 1 yard of 4 or 5 different types. It shouldn't have weighed more
than a couple lbs.
But, they ROLLED it, on a roll, not folded at all, because some people like it
that way. And, due to the oversize length dimension, it was then billed at the
30lbs!!!! shipping rate. They called about the shipping change to ground...which
was nice, but I sure wish they'd have called about the oversize shipping.
I'd have told them to fold it in half at least.
I've heard this same thing happens to people who buy heatshrink, so I thought I'd
bring it up again.
They don't roll the heatshrink but send it in long long boxes in sections....which
then costs a ton.
So, don't assume that ACS will actual think, and always work in what YOU think
is your best interest. If you order ANYTHING that is possible it could be shipped
flat, assume that they'll ship it in the worst possible way. From now on,
even if I ordered rope from them, I'm going to specify "please coil rope"....so
they don't ship me a 40' rope on a semi flatbed.
That brought the cost of my little nose fairing up to about $139.
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Fairing Construction - How to? |
Just a minor point: Tim, you say "the theory is, the air
coming in will hit the gear leg especially at higher angles of
attack, and flow into that hole, adding pressure to the lower
cowl, decreasing the differential between the upper and lower
cowl". It doesn't work that way. You have to decrease the pressure at the outlet,
increasing the differential pressure. It is differential pressure that drives
the flow. Think of it this way - if the pressure was the same top and bottom
there would be no driving force, no flow.
So whatever it is that you are constructing, it needs to increase the delta P if
you want more cooling flow.
--------
Dave Moore
RV-6 flying
RV-10 QB - Need to start panel
Rest almost done
Breathing too much fiberglass dust
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343813#343813
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Fairing Construction - How to? |
That's my point exactly. just think in terms of
having ram air coming in the main cowl holes,
and now you have ram air coming in the lower cowl
through that slot. You could end up with very little
differential pressure. If you seal that forward
facing hole in front of the gear, then you won't
get any INCOMING air into the lower cowl, from
ram air. The only air that will go into the lower
cowl will be the stuff that came in from the
upper chamber, after passing through the
cylinders and oil cooler.
So we're talking about the same thing. leaving
that slot open as-is, is the same as not putting
those rubber seals around your airbox snorkel...you'd
be forcing air into the cowl down there, and that
would wipe out your pressure differential between
the upper and lower cowl...or at least reduce
it.
I'm just trying to maximize that differential by
getting rid of one more place that shouldn't
get forced air rammed into it.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
On 6/22/2011 4:41 PM, nukeflyboy wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "nukeflyboy"<flymoore@charter.net>
>
> Just a minor point: Tim, you say "the theory is, the air
> coming in will hit the gear leg especially at higher angles of
> attack, and flow into that hole, adding pressure to the lower
> cowl, decreasing the differential between the upper and lower
> cowl". It doesn't work that way. You have to decrease the pressure at the outlet,
increasing the differential pressure. It is differential pressure that
drives the flow. Think of it this way - if the pressure was the same top and
bottom there would be no driving force, no flow.
>
> So whatever it is that you are constructing, it needs to increase the delta P
if you want more cooling flow.
>
> --------
> Dave Moore
> RV-6 flying
> RV-10 QB - Need to start panel
> Rest almost done
> Breathing too much fiberglass dust
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343813#343813
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Fairing Construction - How to? |
Dave I think you miss read what Tim said. The problem is that the hole is
there now, with no fairing, and thus there might be an increase in pressure
in the lower cowl at higher angles of attack. It is my understanding that
he is trying to build a fairing that will redirect the airflow and thus
decrease the pressure in the lower cowl. I tried the same thing by putting
a deflector on the back of the lower cowl. I saw no improvement so I took
it off. I can't wait to see if Tim has any success with putting a fairing
on the opening. During hot summer climbs I need all the cooling I can get.
Rene' Felker
N423CF
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nukeflyboy
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 3:41 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fairing Construction - How to?
Just a minor point: Tim, you say "the theory is, the air
coming in will hit the gear leg especially at higher angles of
attack, and flow into that hole, adding pressure to the lower
cowl, decreasing the differential between the upper and lower
cowl". It doesn't work that way. You have to decrease the pressure at the
outlet, increasing the differential pressure. It is differential pressure
that drives the flow. Think of it this way - if the pressure was the same
top and bottom there would be no driving force, no flow.
So whatever it is that you are constructing, it needs to increase the delta
P if you want more cooling flow.
--------
Dave Moore
RV-6 flying
RV-10 QB - Need to start panel
Rest almost done
Breathing too much fiberglass dust
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343813#343813
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Fairing Construction - How to? |
Ok I guess I will step in here. I use to own a Cardinal and heat issues and
drag issues on the 1968 cardinal version was very normal. The lower cowl
has a very large opening on the back edge. Thus causing a very large ram
air affect adding to the pressure in the lower cowl. Thus lowering the
differential pressure. Thus poor cooling and
Increased drag. The fix was a large fairing that was attached to the cowl
to close up the hole, a aero dynamic air exit, thus majorly lowering the
lower cowl pressure and increasing the differential pressure. And it added
5-7 knots to the cruise speed.
Looking at how tight the RV-10 cowl is, if I was a betting man. I think
working on enlarging the air exit area, and somehow making sure the slot
where the gear leg resides preventing any air from increasing the lower cowl
pressure from ram air. Reshaping the lower firewall with a fairing, to cut
the friction of the air exiting the cowl and helping the air make the 90
degree to go out the bottom cowl exit.
I am not sure about how affective the slots I have seen people installed in
the lower center portion are either . Maybe more slots are needed. Only
problem is the slots also I suspect are not that affective due to the high
speed air rushing over them building a boundary layer, and causing a
restriction to the air trying to exit out the slot them self's.
One more Cardinal trick that really worked well to assist in cylinder
cooling was to increase the distance between the aft cylinder fins and the
aft baffling. We would insert small strips of 1/8 to 3/16 pieces of
Baffling material between the cylinders and the aft baffling material
opening that distance just a bit and it really made a very large difference
in cylinder temps
Just a few thoughts.
Anyone want to chime in on this.
I am going to have this same discussion with engineer friend and see what
his thoughts are about the best way to increase the differential pressure.
Between the top and bottom of the cowl.
John Cumins
40864 Dimpling wing skins SB Wings.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene Felker
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 3:03 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fairing Construction - How to?
Dave I think you miss read what Tim said. The problem is that the hole is
there now, with no fairing, and thus there might be an increase in pressure
in the lower cowl at higher angles of attack. It is my understanding that
he is trying to build a fairing that will redirect the airflow and thus
decrease the pressure in the lower cowl. I tried the same thing by putting
a deflector on the back of the lower cowl. I saw no improvement so I took
it off. I can't wait to see if Tim has any success with putting a fairing
on the opening. During hot summer climbs I need all the cooling I can get.
Rene' Felker
N423CF
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nukeflyboy
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 3:41 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fairing Construction - How to?
Just a minor point: Tim, you say "the theory is, the air coming in will hit
the gear leg especially at higher angles of attack, and flow into that hole,
adding pressure to the lower cowl, decreasing the differential between the
upper and lower cowl". It doesn't work that way. You have to decrease the
pressure at the outlet, increasing the differential pressure. It is
differential pressure that drives the flow. Think of it this way - if the
pressure was the same top and bottom there would be no driving force, no
flow.
So whatever it is that you are constructing, it needs to increase the delta
P if you want more cooling flow.
--------
Dave Moore
RV-6 flying
RV-10 QB - Need to start panel
Rest almost done
Breathing too much fiberglass dust
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343813#343813
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Main gear weldment too small |
I just posted on VAF that last night after another 6 hours of grinding=2C s
anding etc. I was able to insert my gear legs..............after some discu
ssion with Vans=2C I really could never determine wether the housing had no
t been completly honed as appropriate or the many years my kit had been sit
ting had contributed significantly to the problem.....................consi
dering Vans has not had many of these issues and we have not seen it on Mat
ronics or VAF as an issue I think the years of the corrosion were more the
problem than the design or product quality................so its fixed and
my baby stood on her own last night for the first time!!
Of course we had heat health warnings here yesterday and I awoke this morni
ng wondering if I had hallucinated about getting the gear on at 11pm last n
ight so on my way to the office I drove by the hangar to verify I was remem
bering the prior evening accurately and sure enough=2C there she stood!
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Main gear weldment too small
> From: woxof@aol.com
> Date: Mon=2C 20 Jun 2011 23:26:14 -0700
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Put mine in today with very little trouble. Much easier than I anticipate
d actually. I did find that the hole in the leg top was slightly smaller t
han the specified drill bit so I predrilled it on the drill press first. Th
at made it much easier to final drill the receiver.
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa=2C AZ
> Emp completed=2C QB wings completed=2C legacy build fuse in mostly done
=2C finishing kit in progress.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343620#343620
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Fairing Construction - How to? |
You are right - I misread what Tim is trying to do. I suspect that the gear can
flex quite a bit so you need to account for it. Have you thought of using some
kind of rubber or soft material? It would have to be stiff enough to withstand
the air pressure without deflecting but would allow the gear leg impact
without damaging anything. Something like those thick silicone gaskets with a
slit in it for gear movement. It could stay in place even when removing the
lower cowl and could be glued on the inside of the cowl.
--------
Dave Moore
RV-6 flying
RV-10 QB - Need to start panel
Rest almost done
Breathing too much fiberglass dust
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343839#343839
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Fairing Construction - How to? |
Chiming in just for the thrill of mixing it up. The lower cowl is an
area of High Pressure in the region of laminar flow. The Upper deck has
lower pressure flowing over it to the windshield where everything can
break loose. Given Tim's desire to reduce problems inherent with the
STOCK Vans nose gear leg. Louvers in the lower cowl do not assist the
Delta T/Delta P equation. High Pressure in the top deck. Lower
pressure and need for enhanced outflow in the lower deck. The firewall,
assorted added obstructions and the gear leg work against the efficient
flow of High pressure air over the cooling fins and an effective
extraction of heat and energy laden airflow. Correct sizing of the High
pressure deck, along with well designed flow characteristics of the High
Pressure deck lend themselves to caressing the airflow out of the
stagnant lower deck and efficiently into the slipstream of the lower
cowl.
LoPresti makes a living selling the concept of changing the amount of
airflow out of the lower deck (Cowl Flaps) and into the slipstream.
There is a whole body of data from Deems, Robin and others on the use of
James plenums and dealing with airflow and oil temp control. Is there
someone who can quantifiably support more louvers in the high pressure
area aid additional extraction of air coming from the High Pressure
Deck?
Showplanes is said to be working on an improved cowl. Maybe OSH '11 is
the year to keep a watchful eye open.
The Cardinal baffling idea was used by both Cirrus and GAMI to assist
Continental engines in those aft cylinders. It increase high pressure
flow into the lower pressure chamber. That chamber has high pressure
laminar flow waiting for more louvers to mix up the dynamic flow. Maybe
Kelly can chime in from Arizona. I am an advocate of a high pressure
chamber designed specifically for enhanced flow which has individual
cylinder fins mounted to direct the need flow over the exhaust valve and
cooling fins of each cylinder. Those who have used manometers might
understand my desire. More louvers, too simple to understand but
popular no less.
John - OSH '11
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cumins
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 5:47 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fairing Construction - How to?
Ok I guess I will step in here. I use to own a Cardinal and heat issues
and
drag issues on the 1968 cardinal version was very normal. The lower
cowl
has a very large opening on the back edge. Thus causing a very large
ram
air affect adding to the pressure in the lower cowl. Thus lowering the
differential pressure. Thus poor cooling and
Increased drag. The fix was a large fairing that was attached to the
cowl
to close up the hole, a aero dynamic air exit, thus majorly lowering the
lower cowl pressure and increasing the differential pressure. And it
added
5-7 knots to the cruise speed.
Looking at how tight the RV-10 cowl is, if I was a betting man. I think
working on enlarging the air exit area, and somehow making sure the slot
where the gear leg resides preventing any air from increasing the lower
cowl
pressure from ram air. Reshaping the lower firewall with a fairing, to
cut
the friction of the air exiting the cowl and helping the air make the 90
degree to go out the bottom cowl exit.
I am not sure about how affective the slots I have seen people installed
in
the lower center portion are either . Maybe more slots are needed.
Only
problem is the slots also I suspect are not that affective due to the
high
speed air rushing over them building a boundary layer, and causing a
restriction to the air trying to exit out the slot them self's.
One more Cardinal trick that really worked well to assist in cylinder
cooling was to increase the distance between the aft cylinder fins and
the
aft baffling. We would insert small strips of 1/8 to 3/16 pieces of
Baffling material between the cylinders and the aft baffling material
opening that distance just a bit and it really made a very large
difference
in cylinder temps
Just a few thoughts.
Anyone want to chime in on this.
I am going to have this same discussion with engineer friend and see
what
his thoughts are about the best way to increase the differential
pressure.
Between the top and bottom of the cowl.
John Cumins
40864 Dimpling wing skins SB Wings.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene Felker
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 3:03 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fairing Construction - How to?
Dave I think you miss read what Tim said. The problem is that the hole
is
there now, with no fairing, and thus there might be an increase in
pressure
in the lower cowl at higher angles of attack. It is my understanding
that
he is trying to build a fairing that will redirect the airflow and thus
decrease the pressure in the lower cowl. I tried the same thing by
putting
a deflector on the back of the lower cowl. I saw no improvement so I
took
it off. I can't wait to see if Tim has any success with putting a
fairing
on the opening. During hot summer climbs I need all the cooling I can
get.
Rene' Felker
N423CF
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nukeflyboy
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 3:41 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fairing Construction - How to?
Just a minor point: Tim, you say "the theory is, the air coming in will
hit
the gear leg especially at higher angles of attack, and flow into that
hole,
adding pressure to the lower cowl, decreasing the differential between
the
upper and lower cowl". It doesn't work that way. You have to decrease
the
pressure at the outlet, increasing the differential pressure. It is
differential pressure that drives the flow. Think of it this way - if
the
pressure was the same top and bottom there would be no driving force, no
flow.
So whatever it is that you are constructing, it needs to increase the
delta
P if you want more cooling flow.
--------
Dave Moore
RV-6 flying
RV-10 QB - Need to start panel
Rest almost done
Breathing too much fiberglass dust
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343813#343813
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Main gear weldment too small |
Myron, any ideas on the best routing on "WN" to get from the west coast
to OSH '11? Last year was PDX-LAS-MKE. Return was MDW-RNO-PDX after 32
cancellations thru MDW. Would love to thank you for Copperstate
Barbeques of the past (08/09/10) and discuss that gear weldment issue.
YES, I will provide cold beer to Camp Swampy even without Gary and Bob+
wives.
John Cox
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roxanne and
Mike Lefever
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 6:55 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Main gear weldment too small
I just posted on VAF that last night after another 6 hours of grinding,
sanding etc. I was able to insert my gear legs..............after some
discussion with Vans, I really could never determine wether the housing
had not been completly honed as appropriate or the many years my kit had
been sitting had contributed significantly to the
problem.....................considering Vans has not had many of these
issues and we have not seen it on Matronics or VAF as an issue I think
the years of the corrosion were more the problem than the design or
product quality................so its fixed and my baby stood on her own
last night for the first time!!
Of course we had heat health warnings here yesterday and I awoke this
morning wondering if I had hallucinated about getting the gear on at
11pm last night so on my way to the office I drove by the hangar to
verify I was remembering the prior evening accurately and sure enough,
there she stood!
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Main gear weldment too small
> From: woxof@aol.com
> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 23:26:14 -0700
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Put mine in today with very little trouble. Much easier than I
anticipated actually. I did find that the hole in the leg top was
slightly smaller than the specified drill bit so I predrilled it on the
drill press first. That made it much easier to final drill the receiver.
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa, AZ
> Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in mostly done,
finishing kit in progress.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343620#343620
>
>
>========================
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Fairing Construction - How to? |
As a -10 (and 8A) James cowl & plenum owner (read: disgruntled) I can tell
you that the single best modification we made for reducing high CHT's and
Oil Temps was the addition of 4 louvers on the underside of the cowl. Not
ideal but by that point we were willing to try anything. The temps are all
manageable now just passing 225 hours TTSN.
I can say with little hesitation that the stock Vans cowl with standard
baffling is currently the proven best option for proper cooling, running
LOP etc... I have been in relatively close contact with the nice folks at
Showplanes. They are getting closer but not at production stage yet. Am I
going to be a guinea pig twice? Hard to know but my long range plans are
to replace the James cowl at some point. (yes John I remember you want it
for testing...)
Unless you are one that enjoys severe migraines and tinkering vs. flying,
consider using stock cowl till there is a proven alternative.
Robin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 7:42 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fairing Construction - How to?
Chiming in just for the thrill of mixing it up. The lower cowl is an
area of High Pressure in the region of laminar flow. The Upper deck has
lower pressure flowing over it to the windshield where everything can
break loose. Given Tim's desire to reduce problems inherent with the
STOCK Vans nose gear leg. Louvers in the lower cowl do not assist the
Delta T/Delta P equation. High Pressure in the top deck. Lower
pressure and need for enhanced outflow in the lower deck. The firewall,
assorted added obstructions and the gear leg work against the efficient
flow of High pressure air over the cooling fins and an effective
extraction of heat and energy laden airflow. Correct sizing of the High
pressure deck, along with well designed flow characteristics of the High
Pressure deck lend themselves to caressing the airflow out of the
stagnant lower deck and efficiently into the slipstream of the lower
cowl.
LoPresti makes a living selling the concept of changing the amount of
airflow out of the lower deck (Cowl Flaps) and into the slipstream.
There is a whole body of data from Deems, Robin and others on the use of
James plenums and dealing with airflow and oil temp control. Is there
someone who can quantifiably support more louvers in the high pressure
area aid additional extraction of air coming from the High Pressure
Deck?
Showplanes is said to be working on an improved cowl. Maybe OSH '11 is
the year to keep a watchful eye open.
The Cardinal baffling idea was used by both Cirrus and GAMI to assist
Continental engines in those aft cylinders. It increase high pressure
flow into the lower pressure chamber. That chamber has high pressure
laminar flow waiting for more louvers to mix up the dynamic flow. Maybe
Kelly can chime in from Arizona. I am an advocate of a high pressure
chamber designed specifically for enhanced flow which has individual
cylinder fins mounted to direct the need flow over the exhaust valve and
cooling fins of each cylinder. Those who have used manometers might
understand my desire. More louvers, too simple to understand but
popular no less.
John - OSH '11
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cumins
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 5:47 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fairing Construction - How to?
Ok I guess I will step in here. I use to own a Cardinal and heat issues
and
drag issues on the 1968 cardinal version was very normal. The lower
cowl
has a very large opening on the back edge. Thus causing a very large
ram
air affect adding to the pressure in the lower cowl. Thus lowering the
differential pressure. Thus poor cooling and
Increased drag. The fix was a large fairing that was attached to the
cowl
to close up the hole, a aero dynamic air exit, thus majorly lowering the
lower cowl pressure and increasing the differential pressure. And it
added
5-7 knots to the cruise speed.
Looking at how tight the RV-10 cowl is, if I was a betting man. I think
working on enlarging the air exit area, and somehow making sure the slot
where the gear leg resides preventing any air from increasing the lower
cowl
pressure from ram air. Reshaping the lower firewall with a fairing, to
cut
the friction of the air exiting the cowl and helping the air make the 90
degree to go out the bottom cowl exit.
I am not sure about how affective the slots I have seen people installed
in
the lower center portion are either . Maybe more slots are needed.
Only
problem is the slots also I suspect are not that affective due to the
high
speed air rushing over them building a boundary layer, and causing a
restriction to the air trying to exit out the slot them self's.
One more Cardinal trick that really worked well to assist in cylinder
cooling was to increase the distance between the aft cylinder fins and
the
aft baffling. We would insert small strips of 1/8 to 3/16 pieces of
Baffling material between the cylinders and the aft baffling material
opening that distance just a bit and it really made a very large
difference
in cylinder temps
Just a few thoughts.
Anyone want to chime in on this.
I am going to have this same discussion with engineer friend and see
what
his thoughts are about the best way to increase the differential
pressure.
Between the top and bottom of the cowl.
John Cumins
40864 Dimpling wing skins SB Wings.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene Felker
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 3:03 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fairing Construction - How to?
Dave I think you miss read what Tim said. The problem is that the hole
is
there now, with no fairing, and thus there might be an increase in
pressure
in the lower cowl at higher angles of attack. It is my understanding
that
he is trying to build a fairing that will redirect the airflow and thus
decrease the pressure in the lower cowl. I tried the same thing by
putting
a deflector on the back of the lower cowl. I saw no improvement so I
took
it off. I can't wait to see if Tim has any success with putting a
fairing
on the opening. During hot summer climbs I need all the cooling I can
get.
Rene' Felker
N423CF
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nukeflyboy
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 3:41 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fairing Construction - How to?
Just a minor point: Tim, you say "the theory is, the air coming in will
hit
the gear leg especially at higher angles of attack, and flow into that
hole,
adding pressure to the lower cowl, decreasing the differential between
the
upper and lower cowl". It doesn't work that way. You have to decrease
the
pressure at the outlet, increasing the differential pressure. It is
differential pressure that drives the flow. Think of it this way - if
the
pressure was the same top and bottom there would be no driving force, no
flow.
So whatever it is that you are constructing, it needs to increase the
delta
P if you want more cooling flow.
--------
Dave Moore
RV-6 flying
RV-10 QB - Need to start panel
Rest almost done
Breathing too much fiberglass dust
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343813#343813
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