Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:30 AM - Re: Workbench size? (Fred Williams, M.D.)
2. 05:40 AM - Re: Wires to tail (johngoodman)
3. 06:15 AM - Re: Workbench size? (johngoodman)
4. 11:03 AM - Re: fuselage kit (John Cumins)
5. 03:49 PM - Mogas in IO-540 (Jesse Saint)
6. 04:16 PM - Re: Cabin Side Panel (Michael Kraus)
7. 04:25 PM - Re: Mogas in IO-540 (Kelly McMullen)
8. 04:26 PM - Re: Mogas in IO-540 (Carl Froehlich)
9. 05:08 PM - Re: Mogas in IO-540 (Jesse Saint)
10. 05:50 PM - Re: Mogas in IO-540 (Kelly McMullen)
11. 05:58 PM - Re: Mogas in IO-540 (Marcus Cooper)
12. 06:50 PM - Re: Mogas in IO-540 (Bob Turner)
13. 07:08 PM - Re: Cabin Side Panel (AirMike)
14. 07:26 PM - Horizontal Stabilizer bolts loose at annual (AirMike)
15. 07:35 PM - Re: Horizontal Stabilizer bolts loose at annual (Linn Walters)
16. 07:52 PM - Re: Mogas in IO-540 (Kelly McMullen)
17. 07:56 PM - Re: Re: Cabin Side Panel (Robin Marks)
18. 08:09 PM - Re: Re: Cabin Side Panel (Kelly McMullen)
19. 08:32 PM - Re: Mogas in IO-540 (Coop85)
20. 08:34 PM - Re: Re: Mogas in IO-540 (Coop85)
21. 08:40 PM - Re: Mogas in IO-540 (Kelly McMullen)
22. 09:02 PM - Re: Horizontal Stabilizer bolts loose at annual (AirMike)
23. 10:23 PM - Re: Re: Cabin Side Panel (Albert Gardner)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Workbench size? |
I think the EEA tables would work great. I had enough room for a 4x8
table with a melamine top.
What I found helpful was to take the wing box, take the top off and then
flip it over on some 4x4 posts for the corners. It was narrow and long
and I kept it low. About 30 inches. Let me work on one wing at a
time. I put some old carpet scraps to protect the skins.
Dr Fred
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Wires to tail |
I drilled a hole through F1012B that passed through the very top of F1012E, just
below F1056. I found a grommet that would hold the wire, and drilled accordingly.
Also heat shrunk the wire to make sure, since it's pretty thick there.
John
--------
#40572 First flight was on 25 June, 2011
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=351528#351528
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Workbench size? |
I did that with all the boxes, but I had the room. Made some of them higher, mainly
for fiberglass work - you need a big table for cutting fabric.
John
drfred(at)suddenlinkmail. wrote:
> I think the EEA tables would work great. I had enough room for a 4x8
> table with a melamine top.
>
> What I found helpful was to take the wing box, take the top off and then
> flip it over on some 4x4 posts for the corners. It was narrow and long
> and I kept it low. About 30 inches. Let me work on one wing at a
> time. I put some old carpet scraps to protect the skins.
>
> Dr Fred
--------
#40572 First flight was on 25 June, 2011
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=351531#351531
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Rick
I for sure would go with the SS hot air box setup they seal better and last
a lot longer, aftermarket break lines and and replace all 3003 tubing with
5052 tubing without a doute
40864 Wings skins dimpling
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Lark
Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 11:55 AM
Subject: RV10-List: fuselage kit
Hi all
I want to order the fuse kit in the next couple of weeks and just received
the fuselage list from Anne @ Vans.
After going over it fairly closely, there are a few things I want to change
out.
1) The aluminum cabin heat box for stainless. I have found 2 aftermarket
manufacturers. Plane Innovations and Aviacomp International. Anyone have
an opinion on either? I believe the Aviacomp is about $20 more each.
2) Vans fuel valve for the Andair, which I have already bought. The list
shows the valve in bag #487-1, but plans show it as VA178G. I assume they
are one and the same.
3) There are 2 brake hoses listed, F8105, which attach to the master
cylinders and go up to the firewall. Have others replaced these with
aftermarket?
4) Has anyone replaced the 3003 soft aluminun tube than comes with the kit
with 5052-0 rigid tubing that runs from the firewall to the gear legs?
Anyother opinions or recomendations are welcome. Thx in advance.
Rick
#40956
Southampton, Ont.
Message 5
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I've done a little searching on the topic, but can't find any recent articles.
What are the issues keeping someone from running mogas in a 260HP IO-540? What
I have found so far is the following problems that people mention, but not
sure if the possible solutions are acceptable or accurate, and don't know details.
Also, is mixing 50/50 or something like this acceptable? I'm just researching
for possible options if 100LL is not available in a pinch.
1. Problem: Ethanol can ruin seals in the system - Solution: Use mogas without
ethanol?
2. Problem: Detonation - Solution: Run only up to certain power settings? Run
only rich of peak? Other?
3. Problem: Vapor Lock - Solution: Stay below certain altitude? Other?
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin Side Panel |
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Mogas in IO-540 |
Item 1. You are correct.
Item 2. Do not use any mogas with less than 91 pump octane rating, and
try for 92 or 93. The engine was certified on 91/96 octane
avgas...which is a bit different scale.
Item 3. I don't know FL mogas vapor pressures. In Aridzona during the
summer it is 7.0, same as avgas, might be a couple points higher in
winter. More of a problem in summer at OSH if you got some fuel sold 6
months prior with RVP up around 12 or 14. One way to mitigate is to
run pure avgas in one tank and mogas in the other. Use Avgas for
takeoff and landing, mogas for cruising. Mixing the two fuels will
improve stability and octane of the mogas. However, you don't want
mogas to sit more than a month or so, as varnish and gum will form and
cause problems in the fuel system. Stabil additive can help.
On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 3:46 PM, Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com> wrote:
>
> I've done a little searching on the topic, but can't find any recent articles.
What are the issues keeping someone from running mogas in a 260HP IO-540? What
I have found so far is the following problems that people mention, but not
sure if the possible solutions are acceptable or accurate, and don't know details.
Also, is mixing 50/50 or something like this acceptable? I'm just researching
for possible options if 100LL is not available in a pinch.
>
> 1. Problem: Ethanol can ruin seals in the system - Solution: Use mogas without
ethanol?
> 2. Problem: Detonation - Solution: Run only up to certain power settings? Run
only rich of peak? Other?
> 3. Problem: Vapor Lock - Solution: Stay below certain altitude? Other?
>
> do not archive
>
> Jesse Saint
> Saint Aviation, Inc.
> jesse@saintaviation.com
> C: 352-427-0285
> F: 815-377-3694
>
>
Message 8
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I ran premium, no ethanol auto fuel in my 180hp IO-360 RV-8A and was pleased
with the results. I operated the engine exactly the same as with 100LL.
The only difference I could tell was the spark plugs stayed cleaner (dual
electronic ignition with auto plugs). Since the IO-540 has the same
compression ratio as the parallel valve IO-360, I would expect the same
results. I do not recommend auto fuel on engines with high compression
pistons, or anytime if it has ethanol.
The problem you have is that no ethanol premium auto fuel is simply not
available for most people. I asked the local airport to carry it but they
balked once they got their attorney involved.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 6:46 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Mogas in IO-540
I've done a little searching on the topic, but can't find any recent
articles. What are the issues keeping someone from running mogas in a 260HP
IO-540? What I have found so far is the following problems that people
mention, but not sure if the possible solutions are acceptable or accurate,
and don't know details. Also, is mixing 50/50 or something like this
acceptable? I'm just researching for possible options if 100LL is not
available in a pinch.
1. Problem: Ethanol can ruin seals in the system - Solution: Use mogas
without ethanol?
2. Problem: Detonation - Solution: Run only up to certain power
settings? Run only rich of peak? Other?
3. Problem: Vapor Lock - Solution: Stay below certain altitude? Other?
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Mogas in IO-540 |
That's great real-world experience. How does octane work? We have a tank of 89
Octane Mogas at our hangar for the Maverick and other small planes. If I mix
5 gallons of 89 octane with 5 gallons of 100LL, does that average out to 94.5
octane? Also, will the LL avgas stabilize the mogas if mixed, or would a fuel
stabilizer still be needed if it was going to sit for a period of time?
Thanks for the input so far.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
On Sep 6, 2011, at 7:24 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>
> I ran premium, no ethanol auto fuel in my 180hp IO-360 RV-8A and was pleased
> with the results. I operated the engine exactly the same as with 100LL.
> The only difference I could tell was the spark plugs stayed cleaner (dual
> electronic ignition with auto plugs). Since the IO-540 has the same
> compression ratio as the parallel valve IO-360, I would expect the same
> results. I do not recommend auto fuel on engines with high compression
> pistons, or anytime if it has ethanol.
>
> The problem you have is that no ethanol premium auto fuel is simply not
> available for most people. I asked the local airport to carry it but they
> balked once they got their attorney involved.
>
> Carl
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 6:46 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Mogas in IO-540
>
>
> I've done a little searching on the topic, but can't find any recent
> articles. What are the issues keeping someone from running mogas in a 260HP
> IO-540? What I have found so far is the following problems that people
> mention, but not sure if the possible solutions are acceptable or accurate,
> and don't know details. Also, is mixing 50/50 or something like this
> acceptable? I'm just researching for possible options if 100LL is not
> available in a pinch.
>
> 1. Problem: Ethanol can ruin seals in the system - Solution: Use mogas
> without ethanol?
> 2. Problem: Detonation - Solution: Run only up to certain power
> settings? Run only rich of peak? Other?
> 3. Problem: Vapor Lock - Solution: Stay below certain altitude? Other?
>
> do not archive
>
> Jesse Saint
> Saint Aviation, Inc.
> jesse@saintaviation.com
> C: 352-427-0285
> F: 815-377-3694
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Mogas in IO-540 |
Yes, avgas will stabilize the mogas to a degree. The octane boost would
likely be a bit more than 50% because the first 20% or so of lead gives
far more boost than additional amounts. I'd say you should be quite safe
with 50/50 mix as long as you burned it within a few months.
On 9/6/2011 5:04 PM, Jesse Saint wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Jesse Saint<jesse@saintaviation.com>
>
> That's great real-world experience. How does octane work? We have a tank of
89 Octane Mogas at our hangar for the Maverick and other small planes. If I
mix 5 gallons of 89 octane with 5 gallons of 100LL, does that average out to 94.5
octane? Also, will the LL avgas stabilize the mogas if mixed, or would a
fuel stabilizer still be needed if it was going to sit for a period of time?
>
> Thanks for the input so far.
>
> Jesse Saint
> Saint Aviation, Inc.
> jesse@saintaviation.com
> C: 352-427-0285
> F: 815-377-3694
>
> On Sep 6, 2011, at 7:24 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Carl Froehlich"<carl.froehlich@verizon.net>
>>
>> I ran premium, no ethanol auto fuel in my 180hp IO-360 RV-8A and was pleased
>> with the results. I operated the engine exactly the same as with 100LL.
>> The only difference I could tell was the spark plugs stayed cleaner (dual
>> electronic ignition with auto plugs). Since the IO-540 has the same
>> compression ratio as the parallel valve IO-360, I would expect the same
>> results. I do not recommend auto fuel on engines with high compression
>> pistons, or anytime if it has ethanol.
>>
>> The problem you have is that no ethanol premium auto fuel is simply not
>> available for most people. I asked the local airport to carry it but they
>> balked once they got their attorney involved.
>>
>> Carl
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 6:46 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RV10-List: Mogas in IO-540
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Jesse Saint<jesse@saintaviation.com>
>>
>> I've done a little searching on the topic, but can't find any recent
>> articles. What are the issues keeping someone from running mogas in a 260HP
>> IO-540? What I have found so far is the following problems that people
>> mention, but not sure if the possible solutions are acceptable or accurate,
>> and don't know details. Also, is mixing 50/50 or something like this
>> acceptable? I'm just researching for possible options if 100LL is not
>> available in a pinch.
>>
>> 1. Problem: Ethanol can ruin seals in the system - Solution: Use mogas
>> without ethanol?
>> 2. Problem: Detonation - Solution: Run only up to certain power
>> settings? Run only rich of peak? Other?
>> 3. Problem: Vapor Lock - Solution: Stay below certain altitude? Other?
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>> Jesse Saint
>> Saint Aviation, Inc.
>> jesse@saintaviation.com
>> C: 352-427-0285
>> F: 815-377-3694
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Mogas in IO-540 |
This has been a great thread. I tried with no ill effects running Mogas in my
Skybolt with an IO-540C4B5 but had limited experience with it so not a real valid
example. The one thing I'll offer as to the averaging of the octane rating
is AVGAS and MOGAS octane ratings are measured differently so it's apples to
oranges. I have read several other places than 100LL equates to around 91ish
MOGAS. Now, the ethanol and aromatic properties of MOGAS that are not found
in AVGAS are problematic but I don't know all the details beyond vapor lock is
a big issue with the Ethanol.
Marcus
On Sep 6, 2011, at 8:04 PM, Jesse Saint wrote:
That's great real-world experience. How does octane work? We have a tank of 89
Octane Mogas at our hangar for the Maverick and other small planes. If I mix
5 gallons of 89 octane with 5 gallons of 100LL, does that average out to 94.5
octane? Also, will the LL avgas stabilize the mogas if mixed, or would a fuel
stabilizer still be needed if it was going to sit for a period of time?
Thanks for the input so far.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
On Sep 6, 2011, at 7:24 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>
> I ran premium, no ethanol auto fuel in my 180hp IO-360 RV-8A and was pleased
> with the results. I operated the engine exactly the same as with 100LL.
> The only difference I could tell was the spark plugs stayed cleaner (dual
> electronic ignition with auto plugs). Since the IO-540 has the same
> compression ratio as the parallel valve IO-360, I would expect the same
> results. I do not recommend auto fuel on engines with high compression
> pistons, or anytime if it has ethanol.
>
> The problem you have is that no ethanol premium auto fuel is simply not
> available for most people. I asked the local airport to carry it but they
> balked once they got their attorney involved.
>
> Carl
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 6:46 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Mogas in IO-540
>
>
> I've done a little searching on the topic, but can't find any recent
> articles. What are the issues keeping someone from running mogas in a 260HP
> IO-540? What I have found so far is the following problems that people
> mention, but not sure if the possible solutions are acceptable or accurate,
> and don't know details. Also, is mixing 50/50 or something like this
> acceptable? I'm just researching for possible options if 100LL is not
> available in a pinch.
>
> 1. Problem: Ethanol can ruin seals in the system - Solution: Use mogas
> without ethanol?
> 2. Problem: Detonation - Solution: Run only up to certain power
> settings? Run only rich of peak? Other?
> 3. Problem: Vapor Lock - Solution: Stay below certain altitude? Other?
>
> do not archive
>
> Jesse Saint
> Saint Aviation, Inc.
> jesse@saintaviation.com
> C: 352-427-0285
> F: 815-377-3694
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Mogas in IO-540 |
"Octane" is a measure of gas' resistance to detonation.
There are different tests in use, resulting in different numbers. The two most
common tests are "motor octane" and "research octane".
Av gas is measured in "motor octane".
Car gas is the average of the two (note the R+M/2 posted on car gas pumps.)
87 octane car gas (regular) has a minimum motor octane of about 83 (and a research
octane of about 91, so the average is 87). So regular car gas works okay in
an engine certified for 80/87 (the first number is motor octane; the second
is still a third way of measuring octane).
But even premium car gas, 91, is only about 87 motor octane, so it falls short
of the spec for the IO-540.
As someone else said, the effect of tetraethyl lead is non-linear. The first small
dose gives the largest increase, so mixing a 50: 50 mixture of premium car
gas (87 motor octane) with 100LL will raise the octane more than half way (more
than 93.5) so it should be okay in the IO-540.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=351609#351609
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin Side Panel |
Awesome achievement Albert. Please tell me that the 57 is a put on. Please. Please.
Aren't you the same guy that had a real health problem before. If so mucho
kudos. Us geezers have a bit of living left to do......
I did the same treatment on both sides. It is a bit of a pain at annual time, but
looks really good. I think that I got some .025 from van's to do the deed.
it looks very finished with not a lot of weight penalty.
--------
See you OSH '11
Q/B - flying 1 yr+
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=351611#351611
Message 14
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| Subject: | Horizontal Stabilizer bolts loose at annual |
I was quite shocked today to find out that the HS bolts (4) on the front of the
HS were out of proper torque. This discovered during my annual condition inspection.
I would not say that they were loose, but they definitely needed tightening.
No apparent fretting. Tightened about one full turn with the torque wrench
- wow........
--------
See you OSH '11
Q/B - flying 1 yr+
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=351613#351613
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Horizontal Stabilizer bolts loose at annual |
If you used torque seal you know (1) that you had tightened the bolts at
final assembly and (2) the bolts loosened after being tightened. I'm
using yellow torque seal to make sure that I don't miss any fasteners.
I fill the screwdriver slots on screws that I don't plan on taking out
for access .... like at annual time.
Linn
On 9/6/2011 10:23 PM, AirMike wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "AirMike"<Mikeabel@Pacbell.net>
>
> I was quite shocked today to find out that the HS bolts (4) on the front of the
HS were out of proper torque. This discovered during my annual condition inspection.
I would not say that they were loose, but they definitely needed tightening.
No apparent fretting. Tightened about one full turn with the torque wrench
- wow........
>
> --------
> See you OSH '11
> Q/B - flying 1 yr+
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=351613#351613
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Mogas in IO-540 |
If anything, the correlation between avgas octane and mogas octane
goes the other way. 80/87 is a bit higher octane than 87 mogas. I
expect it is the same on the higher grades. BTW for those that don't
know it, your model IO-540 in your Skybolt is the exact same engine as
Van's supplies, except for a lower rpm limit.
On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Marcus Cooper <coop85@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> This has been a great thread. I tried with no ill effects running Mogas in my
Skybolt with an IO-540C4B5 but had limited experience with it so not a real valid
example. The one thing I'll offer as to the averaging of the octane rating
is AVGAS and MOGAS octane ratings are measured differently so it's apples to
oranges. I have read several other places than 100LL equates to around 91ish
MOGAS. Now, the ethanol and aromatic properties of MOGAS that are not found in
AVGAS are problematic but I don't know all the details beyond vapor lock is a
big issue with the Ethanol.
>
> Marcus
>
>
> On Sep 6, 2011, at 8:04 PM, Jesse Saint wrote:
>
>
> That's great real-world experience. How does octane work? We have a tank of 89
Octane Mogas at our hangar for the Maverick and other small planes. If I mix
5 gallons of 89 octane with 5 gallons of 100LL, does that average out to 94.5
octane? Also, will the LL avgas stabilize the mogas if mixed, or would a fuel
stabilizer still be needed if it was going to sit for a period of time?
>
> Thanks for the input so far.
>
> Jesse Saint
> Saint Aviation, Inc.
> jesse@saintaviation.com
> C: 352-427-0285
> F: 815-377-3694
>
> On Sep 6, 2011, at 7:24 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>
>>
>> I ran premium, no ethanol auto fuel in my 180hp IO-360 RV-8A and was pleased
>> with the results. I operated the engine exactly the same as with 100LL.
>> The only difference I could tell was the spark plugs stayed cleaner (dual
>> electronic ignition with auto plugs). Since the IO-540 has the same
>> compression ratio as the parallel valve IO-360, I would expect the same
>> results. I do not recommend auto fuel on engines with high compression
>> pistons, or anytime if it has ethanol.
>>
>> The problem you have is that no ethanol premium auto fuel is simply not
>> available for most people. I asked the local airport to carry it but they
>> balked once they got their attorney involved.
>>
>> Carl
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 6:46 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RV10-List: Mogas in IO-540
>>
>>
>> I've done a little searching on the topic, but can't find any recent
>> articles. What are the issues keeping someone from running mogas in a 260HP
>> IO-540? What I have found so far is the following problems that people
>> mention, but not sure if the possible solutions are acceptable or accurate,
>> and don't know details. Also, is mixing 50/50 or something like this
>> acceptable? I'm just researching for possible options if 100LL is not
>> available in a pinch.
>>
>> 1. Problem: Ethanol can ruin seals in the system - Solution: Use mogas
>> without ethanol?
>> 2. Problem: Detonation - Solution: Run only up to certain power
>> settings? Run only rich of peak? Other?
>> 3. Problem: Vapor Lock - Solution: Stay below certain altitude? Other?
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>> Jesse Saint
>> Saint Aviation, Inc.
>> jesse@saintaviation.com
>> C: 352-427-0285
>> F: 815-377-3694
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin Side Panel |
Are all bets off for a 9:1 IO-540?
Robin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AirMike
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 7:05 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Cabin Side Panel
Awesome achievement Albert. Please tell me that the 57 is a put on.
Please. Please. Aren't you the same guy that had a real health problem
before. If so mucho kudos. Us geezers have a bit of living left to
do......
I did the same treatment on both sides. It is a bit of a pain at annual
time, but looks really good. I think that I got some .025 from van's to do
the deed.
it looks very finished with not a lot of weight penalty.
--------
See you OSH '11
Q/B - flying 1 yr+
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=351611#351611
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin Side Panel |
Yes. Anything 8.7:1 and higher compression will require 100 octane.
On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 7:53 PM, Robin Marks <robin@painttheweb.com> wrote:
>
> Are all bets off for a 9:1 IO-540?
>
> Robin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AirMike
> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 7:05 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Cabin Side Panel
>
>
> Awesome achievement Albert. Please tell me that the 57 is a put on.
> Please. Please. Aren't you the same guy that had a real health problem
> before. If so mucho kudos. Us geezers have a bit of living left to
> do......
>
> I did the same treatment on both sides. It is a bit of a pain at annual
> time, but looks really good. I think that I got some .025 from van's to do
> the deed.
> it looks very finished with not a lot of weight penalty.
>
> --------
> See you OSH '11
> Q/B - flying 1 yr+
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=351611#351611
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Mogas in IO-540 |
Interesting, so 100LL would have a higher octane than even 100 MOGAS if it existed?
I've seen the formulas but couldn't tell you what they were now, but the
emphasis was the measurement was different. Just everything I've read over the
past 20 years suggests 100 AVGAS equates to a lower octane MOGAS. Wouldn't
be the first time I was wrong though.
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 6, 2011, at 10:50 PM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> If anything, the correlation between avgas octane and mogas octane
> goes the other way. 80/87 is a bit higher octane than 87 mogas. I
> expect it is the same on the higher grades. BTW for those that don't
> know it, your model IO-540 in your Skybolt is the exact same engine as
> Van's supplies, except for a lower rpm limit.
>
> On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Marcus Cooper <coop85@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> This has been a great thread. I tried with no ill effects running Mogas in
my Skybolt with an IO-540C4B5 but had limited experience with it so not a real
valid example. The one thing I'll offer as to the averaging of the octane rating
is AVGAS and MOGAS octane ratings are measured differently so it's apples
to oranges. I have read several other places than 100LL equates to around 91ish
MOGAS. Now, the ethanol and aromatic properties of MOGAS that are not found
in AVGAS are problematic but I don't know all the details beyond vapor lock
is a big issue with the Ethanol.
>>
>> Marcus
>>
>>
>> On Sep 6, 2011, at 8:04 PM, Jesse Saint wrote:
>>
>>
>> That's great real-world experience. How does octane work? We have a tank of
89 Octane Mogas at our hangar for the Maverick and other small planes. If I
mix 5 gallons of 89 octane with 5 gallons of 100LL, does that average out to
94.5 octane? Also, will the LL avgas stabilize the mogas if mixed, or would a
fuel stabilizer still be needed if it was going to sit for a period of time?
>>
>> Thanks for the input so far.
>>
>> Jesse Saint
>> Saint Aviation, Inc.
>> jesse@saintaviation.com
>> C: 352-427-0285
>> F: 815-377-3694
>>
>> On Sep 6, 2011, at 7:24 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I ran premium, no ethanol auto fuel in my 180hp IO-360 RV-8A and was pleased
>>> with the results. I operated the engine exactly the same as with 100LL.
>>> The only difference I could tell was the spark plugs stayed cleaner (dual
>>> electronic ignition with auto plugs). Since the IO-540 has the same
>>> compression ratio as the parallel valve IO-360, I would expect the same
>>> results. I do not recommend auto fuel on engines with high compression
>>> pistons, or anytime if it has ethanol.
>>>
>>> The problem you have is that no ethanol premium auto fuel is simply not
>>> available for most people. I asked the local airport to carry it but they
>>> balked once they got their attorney involved.
>>>
>>> Carl
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 6:46 PM
>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: RV10-List: Mogas in IO-540
>>>
>>>
>>> I've done a little searching on the topic, but can't find any recent
>>> articles. What are the issues keeping someone from running mogas in a 260HP
>>> IO-540? What I have found so far is the following problems that people
>>> mention, but not sure if the possible solutions are acceptable or accurate,
>>> and don't know details. Also, is mixing 50/50 or something like this
>>> acceptable? I'm just researching for possible options if 100LL is not
>>> available in a pinch.
>>>
>>> 1. Problem: Ethanol can ruin seals in the system - Solution: Use mogas
>>> without ethanol?
>>> 2. Problem: Detonation - Solution: Run only up to certain power
>>> settings? Run only rich of peak? Other?
>>> 3. Problem: Vapor Lock - Solution: Stay below certain altitude? Other?
>>>
>>> do not archive
>>>
>>> Jesse Saint
>>> Saint Aviation, Inc.
>>> jesse@saintaviation.com
>>> C: 352-427-0285
>>> F: 815-377-3694
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Mogas in IO-540 |
Great info, thanks!
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 6, 2011, at 9:47 PM, "Bob Turner" <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu> wrote:
>
> "Octane" is a measure of gas' resistance to detonation.
> There are different tests in use, resulting in different numbers. The two most
common tests are "motor octane" and "research octane".
> Av gas is measured in "motor octane".
> Car gas is the average of the two (note the R+M/2 posted on car gas pumps.)
> 87 octane car gas (regular) has a minimum motor octane of about 83 (and a research
octane of about 91, so the average is 87). So regular car gas works okay
in an engine certified for 80/87 (the first number is motor octane; the second
is still a third way of measuring octane).
> But even premium car gas, 91, is only about 87 motor octane, so it falls short
of the spec for the IO-540.
> As someone else said, the effect of tetraethyl lead is non-linear. The first
small dose gives the largest increase, so mixing a 50: 50 mixture of premium car
gas (87 motor octane) with 100LL will raise the octane more than half way (more
than 93.5) so it should be okay in the IO-540.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=351609#351609
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Mogas in IO-540 |
As was posted earlier, avgas=motor octane
mogas=motor octane + research octane
87 mogas=~83 octane avgas
racing 104 octane mogas might get you to high 90s avgas.
Right now you can't get to 100 octane avgas unless either lead or some
other higher octane chemicals like ethanol, MTBE etc are added and they
have their own negatives.
On 9/6/2011 8:32 PM, Coop85 wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Coop85<coop85@verizon.net>
>
> Interesting, so 100LL would have a higher octane than even 100 MOGAS if it existed?
I've seen the formulas but couldn't tell you what they were now, but the
emphasis was the measurement was different. Just everything I've read over
the past 20 years suggests 100 AVGAS equates to a lower octane MOGAS. Wouldn't
be the first time I was wrong though.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Sep 6, 2011, at 10:50 PM, Kelly McMullen<apilot2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen<apilot2@gmail.com>
>>
>> If anything, the correlation between avgas octane and mogas octane
>> goes the other way. 80/87 is a bit higher octane than 87 mogas. I
>> expect it is the same on the higher grades. BTW for those that don't
>> know it, your model IO-540 in your Skybolt is the exact same engine as
>> Van's supplies, except for a lower rpm limit.
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Marcus Cooper<coop85@verizon.net> wrote:
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Marcus Cooper<coop85@verizon.net>
>>>
>>> This has been a great thread. I tried with no ill effects running Mogas in
my Skybolt with an IO-540C4B5 but had limited experience with it so not a real
valid example. The one thing I'll offer as to the averaging of the octane rating
is AVGAS and MOGAS octane ratings are measured differently so it's apples
to oranges. I have read several other places than 100LL equates to around 91ish
MOGAS. Now, the ethanol and aromatic properties of MOGAS that are not found
in AVGAS are problematic but I don't know all the details beyond vapor lock
is a big issue with the Ethanol.
>>>
>>> Marcus
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 6, 2011, at 8:04 PM, Jesse Saint wrote:
>>>
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Jesse Saint<jesse@saintaviation.com>
>>>
>>> That's great real-world experience. How does octane work? We have a tank
of 89 Octane Mogas at our hangar for the Maverick and other small planes. If
I mix 5 gallons of 89 octane with 5 gallons of 100LL, does that average out to
94.5 octane? Also, will the LL avgas stabilize the mogas if mixed, or would
a fuel stabilizer still be needed if it was going to sit for a period of time?
>>>
>>> Thanks for the input so far.
>>>
>>> Jesse Saint
>>> Saint Aviation, Inc.
>>> jesse@saintaviation.com
>>> C: 352-427-0285
>>> F: 815-377-3694
>>>
>>> On Sep 6, 2011, at 7:24 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>>>
>>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Carl Froehlich"<carl.froehlich@verizon.net>
>>>>
>>>> I ran premium, no ethanol auto fuel in my 180hp IO-360 RV-8A and was pleased
>>>> with the results. I operated the engine exactly the same as with 100LL.
>>>> The only difference I could tell was the spark plugs stayed cleaner (dual
>>>> electronic ignition with auto plugs). Since the IO-540 has the same
>>>> compression ratio as the parallel valve IO-360, I would expect the same
>>>> results. I do not recommend auto fuel on engines with high compression
>>>> pistons, or anytime if it has ethanol.
>>>>
>>>> The problem you have is that no ethanol premium auto fuel is simply not
>>>> available for most people. I asked the local airport to carry it but they
>>>> balked once they got their attorney involved.
>>>>
>>>> Carl
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 6:46 PM
>>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>>> Subject: RV10-List: Mogas in IO-540
>>>>
>>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Jesse Saint<jesse@saintaviation.com>
>>>>
>>>> I've done a little searching on the topic, but can't find any recent
>>>> articles. What are the issues keeping someone from running mogas in a 260HP
>>>> IO-540? What I have found so far is the following problems that people
>>>> mention, but not sure if the possible solutions are acceptable or accurate,
>>>> and don't know details. Also, is mixing 50/50 or something like this
>>>> acceptable? I'm just researching for possible options if 100LL is not
>>>> available in a pinch.
>>>>
>>>> 1. Problem: Ethanol can ruin seals in the system - Solution: Use mogas
>>>> without ethanol?
>>>> 2. Problem: Detonation - Solution: Run only up to certain power
>>>> settings? Run only rich of peak? Other?
>>>> 3. Problem: Vapor Lock - Solution: Stay below certain altitude? Other?
>>>>
>>>> do not archive
>>>>
>>>> Jesse Saint
>>>> Saint Aviation, Inc.
>>>> jesse@saintaviation.com
>>>> C: 352-427-0285
>>>> F: 815-377-3694
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Horizontal Stabilizer bolts loose at annual |
My alert was the fractured torque seal. Torque seal is a MUST do on all critical
airframe and engine nuts.
--------
See you OSH '11
Q/B - flying 1 yr+
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=351625#351625
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin Side Panel |
Well, I always thought there were less than that until I heard the President
mention 57 so now I know I wuz wrong.
Albert (not always lucid) in sunny Arizona.
BTW, are you calling me a geezer? I'm only 71.
Do not archive
Awesome achievement Albert. Please tell me that the 57 is a put on. Please.
Please. Aren't you the same guy that had a real health problem before. If so
mucho kudos. Us geezers have a bit of living left to do......
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