Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 11:46 AM - Fuel Leak (Dave Saylor)
2. 12:54 PM - Re: Fuel Leak (Linn Walters)
3. 12:54 PM - Re: Fuel Leak (davidsoutpost@comcast.net)
4. 01:35 PM - Re: Fuel Leak (Roger Standley)
5. 02:04 PM - Re: Fuel Leak (Dave Saylor)
6. 05:13 PM - Re: Fuel Leak (John Cumins)
7. 06:55 PM - Re: Fuel Leak (billz)
8. 07:26 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Leak (Phillip Perry)
9. 07:32 PM - Re: Fuel Leak (Dave Saylor)
Message 1
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Listers,
The other day on preflight I noticed a faint fuel smell in the cockpit. I
talked myself into thinking it was nothing, and the next day it was
stronger. Time to investigate.
I found a pretty good drip coming from the flare at the bottom of the fuel
valve. There was some staining and a little dampness on the bottom of the
tunnel, easily fixed with a flex hose.
It got me thinking again about the flap motor as an ignition source.
To date there have been at least three RV-10 cockpit fires. Now of course
keeping the fuel where it should be is key, but once it gets out, keeping it
from igniting seems like a good defense.
The flap motor in my RV-10 is described on the attached data sheet.
There are four 6-32 threaded holes in each end of the motor. Two are used
for mounting, one is blocked by the gearbox, leaving five that expose the
brushes to the tunnel atmosphere.
I wiped a little blob of silicone into the unused hole on the bottom of the
motor, and put AN515-6R4s and split lock-washers in the top holes. The
motor works fine, no issues with clearance. There's a picture of the motor
with the outer case taken off, which I wouldn't recommend doing. Now I
realize it's not necessary. I just included it to identify which hole was
plugged with silicone. Putting the brushes and shims back together wasn't
much fun.
I kind of doubt that this makes the motor officially "explosion proof" but I
don't see how it hurts and hopefully it's a tiny bit safer. Fixing the leak
was the best solution.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
Message 2
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Wat caused the leak? Loose nut? Bad flare? Cracked tube?
Inquiring minds need to know.
Linn
On 10/21/2011 2:31 PM, Dave Saylor wrote:
> Listers,
>
> The other day on preflight I noticed a faint fuel smell in the cockpit.
snip
>
> I kind of doubt that this makes the motor officially "explosion proof"
> but I don't see how it hurts and hopefully it's a tiny bit safer.
> Fixing the leak was the best solution.
>
> Dave Saylor
> AirCrafters
> 140 Aviation Way
> Watsonville, CA 95076
> 831-722-9141 <tel:831-722-9141> Shop
> 831-750-0284 <tel:831-750-0284> Cell
Message 3
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Thanks Dave, good info. Did you find the source of the leak? Cracked flare
or what? Did you use Del Seals on your flares? Mine is all plumbed and I de
cided to keep to the stock aluminum fittings and tubing instead of hoses to
keep weight and costs down to a minimum. Those little things add up quick
weight wise and from experience building a Cozy MKIV, weight adds up really
quick with any deviations to plans. FWIW, we used all aluminum fuel lines
and fittings for the fuel system in the cockpit on the Cozy and used Del Se
als on all the flares on everything, FWF and aft including oil lines. Over
300 hours so far with no leaks. Careful attention to your flaring technique
's for quality flares, fitting alignment, and proper torque, are key ingred
ients to a simple, light weight, low cost plumbing system. Plumbing the bra
kes and fuel delivery system in the tunnel of the -10 gave me fits and I wa
s tempted more that once to just order up some hoses, but every time I thou
ght about the weight penalty kept me motivated to keep to plans and I am gl
ad I spent the time fabricating and scraping lots of tubing until I got it
right. Regardless, I WILL seal up the flap motor just in case!
David Clifford
RV-10 Builder
Howell, MI
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Saylor" <dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 2:31:20 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Fuel Leak
Listers,
The other day on preflight I noticed a faint fuel smell in the cockpit. I t
alked myself into thinking it was nothing, and the next day it was stronger
. Time to investigate.
I found a pretty good drip coming from the flare at the bottom of the fuel
valve. There was some staining and a little dampness on the bottom of the t
unnel, easily fixed with a flex hose.
It got me thinking again about the flap motor as an ignition source.
To date there have been at least three RV-10 cockpit fires. Now of course k
eeping the fuel where it should be is key, but once it gets out, keeping it
from igniting seems like a good defense.
The flap motor in my RV-10 is described on the attached data sheet.
There are four 6-32 threaded holes in each end of the motor. Two are used f
or mounting, one is blocked by the gearbox, leaving five that expose the br
ushes to the tunnel atmosphere.
I wiped a little blob of silicone into the unused hole on the bottom of the
motor, and put AN515-6R4s and split lock-washers in the top holes. The mot
or works fine, no issues with clearance. There's a picture of the motor wit
h the outer case taken off, which I wouldn't recommend doing. Now I realize
it's not necessary. I just included it to identify which hole was plugged
with silicone. Putting the brushes and shims back together wasn't much fun.
I kind of doubt that this makes the motor officially "explosion proof" but
I don't see how it hurts and hopefully it's a tiny bit safer. Fixing the le
ak was the best solution.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
Message 4
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Dave=2C
Just curious=2C which fuel valve did you use? Was the leak fixed by tighten
ing or tube replacement?
Roger
From: dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com
Subject: RV10-List: Fuel Leak
Listers=2C
The other day on preflight I noticed a faint fuel smell in the cockpit. I
talked myself into thinking it was nothing=2C and the next day it was stron
ger. Time to investigate.
I found a pretty good drip coming from the flare at the bottom of the fuel
valve. There was some staining and a little dampness on the bottom of the
tunnel=2C easily fixed with a flex hose.
It got me thinking again about the flap motor as an ignition source.
To date there have been at least three RV-10 cockpit fires. Now of course
keeping the fuel where it should be is key=2C but once it gets out=2C keepi
ng it from igniting seems like a good defense.
The flap motor in my RV-10 is described on the attached data sheet.
There are four 6-32 threaded holes in each end of the motor. Two are used
for mounting=2C one is blocked by the gearbox=2C leaving five that expose t
he brushes to the tunnel atmosphere.
I wiped a little blob of silicone into the unused hole on the bottom of the
motor=2C and put AN515-6R4s and split lock-washers in the top holes. The
motor works fine=2C no issues with clearance. There's a picture of the mot
or with the outer case taken off=2C which I wouldn't recommend doing. Now
I realize it's not necessary. I just included it to identify which hole wa
s plugged with silicone. Putting the brushes and shims back together wasn'
t much fun.
I kind of doubt that this makes the motor officially "explosion proof" but
I don't see how it hurts and hopefully it's a tiny bit safer. Fixing the l
eak was the best solution.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville=2C CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
Message 5
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I have an Andair valve with an AN fitting screwed into the bottom of it.
The leak was between the AN fitting and the flared tube that I fabbed when I
upgraded to the Andair about three years ago.
I replaced the leaky flared tube with a flexible teflon hose.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Roger Standley <taildragon@msn.com> wrote:
> Dave,
>
> Just curious, which fuel valve did you use? Was the leak fixed by
> tightening or tube replacement?
>
> Roger
>
> ------------------------------
> From: dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com
> Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 11:31:20 -0700
> Subject: RV10-List: Fuel Leak
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>
> Listers,
>
> The other day on preflight I noticed a faint fuel smell in the cockpit. I
> talked myself into thinking it was nothing, and the next day it was
> stronger. Time to investigate.
>
> I found a pretty good drip coming from the flare at the bottom of the fuel
> valve. There was some staining and a little dampness on the bottom of the
> tunnel, easily fixed with a flex hose.
>
> It got me thinking again about the flap motor as an ignition source.
>
> To date there have been at least three RV-10 cockpit fires. Now of course
> keeping the fuel where it should be is key, but once it gets out, keeping it
> from igniting seems like a good defense.
>
> The flap motor in my RV-10 is described on the attached data sheet.
>
> There are four 6-32 threaded holes in each end of the motor. Two are used
> for mounting, one is blocked by the gearbox, leaving five that expose the
> brushes to the tunnel atmosphere.
>
> I wiped a little blob of silicone into the unused hole on the bottom of the
> motor, and put AN515-6R4s and split lock-washers in the top holes. The
> motor works fine, no issues with clearance. There's a picture of the motor
> with the outer case taken off, which I wouldn't recommend doing. Now I
> realize it's not necessary. I just included it to identify which hole was
> plugged with silicone. Putting the brushes and shims back together wasn't
> much fun.
>
> I kind of doubt that this makes the motor officially "explosion proof" but
> I don't see how it hurts and hopefully it's a tiny bit safer. Fixing the
> leak was the best solution.
>
> Dave Saylor
> AirCrafters
> 140 Aviation Way
> Watsonville, CA 95076
> 831-722-9141 Shop
> 831-750-0284 Cell
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 6
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Dave
One question on the tubing. Was it the 3002 tube van supplies
that=99s real soft, for was it 5052 standard certified aircraft
tubing.
I have seen the 3000 series tubes leak over time way more so than the
5052 type.
Also, I think you are dead on with the plugging of the holes on the flap
motor. Great idea. I will for sure do that on mine when I get to that
point.
Thanks for all the great information that you pass on the list as you
become aware of it.
Description: ISlogoLAsmall
John Cumins
President
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Leak
I have an Andair valve with an AN fitting screwed into the bottom of it.
The leak was between the AN fitting and the flared tube that I fabbed
when I upgraded to the Andair about three years ago.
I replaced the leaky flared tube with a flexible teflon hose.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Roger Standley <taildragon@msn.com>
wrote:
Dave,
Just curious, which fuel valve did you use? Was the leak fixed by
tightening or tube replacement?
Roger
_____
From: dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com
Subject: RV10-List: Fuel Leak
Listers,
The other day on preflight I noticed a faint fuel smell in the cockpit.
I talked myself into thinking it was nothing, and the next day it was
stronger. Time to investigate.
I found a pretty good drip coming from the flare at the bottom of the
fuel valve. There was some staining and a little dampness on the bottom
of the tunnel, easily fixed with a flex hose.
It got me thinking again about the flap motor as an ignition source.
To date there have been at least three RV-10 cockpit fires. Now of
course keeping the fuel where it should be is key, but once it gets out,
keeping it from igniting seems like a good defense.
The flap motor in my RV-10 is described on the attached data sheet.
There are four 6-32 threaded holes in each end of the motor. Two are
used for mounting, one is blocked by the gearbox, leaving five that
expose the brushes to the tunnel atmosphere.
I wiped a little blob of silicone into the unused hole on the bottom of
the motor, and put AN515-6R4s and split lock-washers in the top holes.
The motor works fine, no issues with clearance. There's a picture of
the motor with the outer case taken off, which I wouldn't recommend
doing. Now I realize it's not necessary. I just included it to
identify which hole was plugged with silicone. Putting the brushes and
shims back together wasn't much fun.
I kind of doubt that this makes the motor officially "explosion proof"
but I don't see how it hurts and hopefully it's a tiny bit safer.
Fixing the leak was the best solution.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 7
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Thank you for the information on the flap motor. It's a step in the right direction
and I plan to make the changes.
Many aircraft designs also provide a means of venting areas that may accumulate
fumes (fuel/hydraulics/etc.) from the aircraft. Larger aircraft are required
to have positive ventilation in these areas. Although the RV-10 doesn't have
any major issues in this area, I decided to take some proactive steps to provide
some separation between the fuel lines and the rest of the tunnel and also
add a small amount of ventilation. I installed an aft facing vent on the bottom
of the fuselage, directly under the fuel valve. This should create a small
amount of negative pressure in the tunnel and draw any fumes out. I plan to
enclose the area that has fuel lines/pump/filter with some easily removable insulation
material. The insulation will be self supporting, easily removed and
secured with velcro. Again, like the flap motor upgrade, this is not a perfect
fix, but should improve the odds in case there is a small fuel leak. Attached
are pictures of the fuselage vent.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355701#355701
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1382_571.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1381_769.jpg
Message 8
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I'd like to find a direct replacement for the standard motor that is
brushless. That's always been my thought.
I suppose I could call the manufacturer and see if they could sell an
equivalent motor in brushless form.
Phil
On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 8:48 PM, billz <billz@roadrunner.com> wrote:
>
> Thank you for the information on the flap motor. It's a step in the right
> direction and I plan to make the changes.
>
> Many aircraft designs also provide a means of venting areas that may
> accumulate fumes (fuel/hydraulics/etc.) from the aircraft. Larger aircraft
> are required to have positive ventilation in these areas. Although the
> RV-10 doesn't have any major issues in this area, I decided to take some
> proactive steps to provide some separation between the fuel lines and the
> rest of the tunnel and also add a small amount of ventilation. I installed
> an aft facing vent on the bottom of the fuselage, directly under the fuel
> valve. This should create a small amount of negative pressure in the tunnel
> and draw any fumes out. I plan to enclose the area that has fuel
> lines/pump/filter with some easily removable insulation material. The
> insulation will be self supporting, easily removed and secured with velcro.
> Again, like the flap motor upgrade, this is not a perfect fix, but should
> improve the odds in case there is a small fuel leak. Attached are pictures
> of the fuselage vent.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355701#355701
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1382_571.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1381_769.jpg
>
>
Message 9
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I'm pretty sure the tubing was 3003.
--Dave
On Oct 21, 2011, at 16:54, "John Cumins" <jcumins@jcis.net> wrote:
> Dave
>
>
>
> One question on the tubing. Was it the 3002 tube van supplies that=99
s real soft, for was it 5052 standard certified aircraft tubing.
>
>
>
> I have seen the 3000 series tubes leak over time way more so than the 5052
type.
>
>
>
> Also, I think you are dead on with the plugging of the holes on the flap m
otor. Great idea. I will for sure do that on mine when I get to that point
.
>
>
>
> Thanks for all the great information that you pass on the list as you beco
me aware of it.
>
>
>
>
>
> <image001.jpg>
>
> John Cumins
>
> President
>
> 707-425-7100
>
> 707-425-7576 Fax
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@
matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor
> Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 1:50 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Leak
>
>
>
> I have an Andair valve with an AN fitting screwed into the bottom of it. T
he leak was between the AN fitting and the flared tube that I fabbed when I u
pgraded to the Andair about three years ago.
>
> I replaced the leaky flared tube with a flexible teflon hose.
>
> Dave Saylor
> AirCrafters
> 140 Aviation Way
> Watsonville, CA 95076
> 831-722-9141 Shop
> 831-750-0284 Cell
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Roger Standley <taildragon@msn.com> wrote
:
>
> Dave,
>
> Just curious, which fuel valve did you use? Was the leak fixed by tighteni
ng or tube replacement?
>
> Roger
>
> From: dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com
> Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 11:31:20 -0700
> Subject: RV10-List: Fuel Leak
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>
> Listers,
>
> The other day on preflight I noticed a faint fuel smell in the cockpit. I
talked myself into thinking it was nothing, and the next day it was stronge
r. Time to investigate.
>
> I found a pretty good drip coming from the flare at the bottom of the fuel
valve. There was some staining and a little dampness on the bottom of the t
unnel, easily fixed with a flex hose.
>
> It got me thinking again about the flap motor as an ignition source.
>
> To date there have been at least three RV-10 cockpit fires. Now of course
keeping the fuel where it should be is key, but once it gets out, keeping i
t from igniting seems like a good defense.
>
> The flap motor in my RV-10 is described on the attached data sheet.
>
> There are four 6-32 threaded holes in each end of the motor. Two are used
for mounting, one is blocked by the gearbox, leaving five that expose the b
rushes to the tunnel atmosphere.
>
> I wiped a little blob of silicone into the unused hole on the bottom of th
e motor, and put AN515-6R4s and split lock-washers in the top holes. The mo
tor works fine, no issues with clearance. There's a picture of the motor wi
th the outer case taken off, which I wouldn't recommend doing. Now I realiz
e it's not necessary. I just included it to identify which hole was plugged
with silicone. Putting the brushes and shims back together wasn't much fun
.
>
> I kind of doubt that this makes the motor officially "explosion proof" but
I don't see how it hurts and hopefully it's a tiny bit safer. Fixing the l
eak was the best solution.
>
> Dave Saylor
> AirCrafters
> 140 Aviation Way
> Watsonville, CA 95076
> 831-722-9141 Shop
> 831-750-0284 Cell
>
>
>
> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
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