---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 10/23/11: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:35 AM - Re: Re: RV10-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 10/21/11 (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 2. 09:01 AM - Re: Re: Panel Choice (Rene) 3. 12:45 PM - Re: Re: Panel Choice (Jim Combs) 4. 02:13 PM - Re: Panel Choice (nukeflyboy) 5. 02:13 PM - Re: Re: Panel Choice (Tim Olson) 6. 03:01 PM - Re: Panel Choice (Bob Turner) 7. 03:19 PM - Re: Re: Panel Choice (Kelly McMullen) 8. 03:45 PM - Re: Panel Choice (Bob Turner) 9. 04:04 PM - Re: Re: Panel Choice (Seano) 10. 04:10 PM - Re: Re: Panel Choice (Kelly McMullen) 11. 04:18 PM - Re: Plane Power and Lycoming Pulley Alignment Issue (rleffler) 12. 04:27 PM - Re: Re: Panel Choice (Dave Saylor) 13. 07:28 PM - Re: Panel Choice (nukeflyboy) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:35:11 AM PST US From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV10-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 10/21/11 RTFM Sent from my iPad2 Do not archive On Oct 22, 2011, at 8:57 PM, "Eli Stefansky" wrote: > > please remove > > Sent from my Droid Charge on Verizon 4GLTE > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:01:16 AM PST US From: "Rene" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Panel Choice I have the GRT system and have not flown behind other systems....but want to give my opinion, take it for what it is worth. :) I have not updated my GRT system to the HX screens and thus do not have synthetic Vision, but I do have one HS screen and one WS screen. I have a separate trutrak autopilot. I really like what I have.....here are the biggest pro's The autopilot is separate from the EFIS and can fly the plane without any external input. This was one of my original requirements and it performs great. Take off...turn on course and establish climb rate.....turn on autopilot and it is good to go. Easy to change track and rate of climb....great backup. It has a great interface with the GRT system and I have a switch that allows the autopilot to be commanded by the EFIS or 430. GRT system is easy to use and fully integrated with the EIS. Both screens provide all functions. Data are free............ Customer support is great........ Synthetic approach is great along with HITS.... Extended runway centerlines... Airport information is good......but I really use Wing X for all of that. But when you need it, it is great to be there. I was on a local flight on Friday and decided to fly up in the mountains (it is what he kids wanted to do) and could not remember the a frequency and instead of pulling my paper chart out (I do carry a paper chart for the local area....but not for outside the local area, I use Wing X) I just hit a couple of buttons and got the frequency. Also, if I look the Freq up on the GRT, I can push it to my SL30. Rene' 801-721-6080 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Strasnuts Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 11:25 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Panel Choice Size of the G3X screens was a big concern of mine before and when I got them. They are great when actually using them. They are only two feet away and probably have the same font size as the competition. I have flown behind Cheltons, GRT, AFS, G1000, SPZ5000, Primus 1000, Proline21, and the DA900EASy. I think Garmin has all you need in these boxes plus some. I like mine more than any of the others but again it's mine. The landscape is more broad in some of the others with synthetic vision, but the same info is there. As far as databases....well I spend 1300 per year on the Garmin bundle and the XM so that could be a lot better. Hopefully that will come down. I see they have a special with the 750 but that doesn't help me with my 430w. I think ease of use with the GTN 750 is the gain in capability. -------- 40936 RV-10 SB N801VR Flying Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355783#355783 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:45:48 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Panel Choice From: Jim Combs WOW! spending $1300 a year just for Database updates is a reason to NOT go with Garmin. I think you need to consider not just the initial cost but also the cost of ownership. Heck for that kind of money I could replace my EFIS units in the panel every 5 years or so. Keeps you up to date with technology too! Just food for thought. Jim Combs N312F - Flying dual AFS EFIS. Do Not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:13:16 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Panel Choice From: "nukeflyboy" Garmin update costs were a concern to me too initially but don't miss my point (in my lengthy note!) that with the 650/750 the update costs are the same as for everyone else. It comes with the IFR subscription, no extra charge for the map. If you have a 430/530/650/750 and you fly IFR then you pay a subscription cost for the database. With the G3X and 650/750 you get the map update free from Jepp. With GRT/AFS you get the map updates from GRT/AFS no charge, when they decide to send an update. -------- Dave Moore RV-6 flying RV-10 QB - Working G3X panel Rest almost done Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355808#355808 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:13:15 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Panel Choice Ok, but do apples to apples. First, if you just use the GRT/AFS database, I'm not 100% positive but I'm doubtful you'll get actual JEPP data, and if not, or perhaps even if, you won't be getting Jepp APPROACHES with your data. Then your system really doesn't have that same level of IFR capabilities. You're relegated to using approach plates and flying the approaches using other references to get to your various waypoints. So you want to make it more apples to apples, which means you have to factor in the cost of your garmin updates for the IFR device (430W or similar) that you connect to your AFS/GRT system....well, those are gonna cost you a few hundred dollars a year. Certainly there's still a delta in cost between doing that and going all out with the $1300/yr package, but you get far more data components for that cost than you get with just updating a 430W. So it's all relative. In the end, IFR is a pay to play activity. For most people, it is NOT worth the added cost to be 100% equipped and ready for an IFR flight across the US...it's far too much money for additional biannual tests, data subscriptions, and things of that nature. But people don't do it to save money, they do it to be able to reach a destination despite some weather in the way. To NOT cancel that trip just due to some low ceilings and miserable weather down low. Or, just because it's a super fun challenge. In the end, after flying in Sean's plane with a G3X, I came to the conclusion that for the money, you can't beat that system these days, and personally I'd even choose it over a G900 panel, since you can do 3 screens across. It's a perfect fit for the RV-10. If he wants to save some data costs, he can drop some of the subscriptions for various components....some of what he subscribes to could be done on an iPad for less money. Either way, I think his panel is far more IFR ready than going with some of the other experimental EFIS systems. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD On 10/23/2011 2:42 PM, Jim Combs wrote: > WOW! spending $1300 a year just for Database updates is a reason to NOT > go with Garmin. I think you need to consider not just the initial cost > but also the cost of ownership. Heck for that kind of money I could > replace my EFIS units in the panel every 5 years or so. Keeps you up to > date with technology too! > > Just food for thought. > > Jim Combs > N312F - Flying dual AFS EFIS. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:01:43 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Panel Choice From: "Bob Turner" Just to add on to "apples to apples..." Don't forget the quoted $1300 includes xm weather (up to $600/yr depending on subscription). I don't think anyone else was including that cost in their discussion. OTOH: Is anyone NOT doing biennial pitot/static/transponder inspections, as I thought Tim was implying? To not do so would restrict you to below 10,000', 30 nm away from all Class B, and no Class C, areas. -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355811#355811 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:19:19 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Panel Choice From: Kelly McMullen Why would that cost enter into the decisions? Whether you fly with steam gauges and a KX170B or equiv, you would need static system and transponder checked. (pitot only gets hooked up to protect the airspeed bellows, there is not testing required of it). If one chooses a VFR certification, cost can be under $100. On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 2:57 PM, Bob Turner wrote: > OTOH: Is anyone NOT doing biennial pitot/static/transponder inspections, as I thought Tim was implying? To not do so would restrict you to below 10,000', 30 nm away from all Class B, and no Class C, areas. > > -------- > Bob Turner > RV-10 QB > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355811#355811 > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:45:33 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Panel Choice From: "Bob Turner" Kelly, Actually, if you fly only VFR, there is no requirement for a pitot-static or transponder inspection. Of course, you may not use the transponder, which means no Class B or C, not above 10,000', etc. Which is why I thought maybe I misunderstood Tim's post. Did he mean biannual (which is what he wrote) meaning instrument currency every 6 months? Tim? -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355817#355817 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:04:56 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Panel Choice From: Seano I actually was adding 700$ that I believe was the cost for the XM package I purchased. 600$ is the g3x bundle. Sent from my iPhone On Oct 23, 2011, at 17:57, "Bob Turner" wrote: > > Just to add on to "apples to apples..." > > Don't forget the quoted $1300 includes xm weather (up to $600/yr depending on subscription). I don't think anyone else was including that cost in their discussion. > > OTOH: Is anyone NOT doing biennial pitot/static/transponder inspections, as I thought Tim was implying? To not do so would restrict you to below 10,000', 30 nm away from all Class B, and no Class C, areas. > > -------- > Bob Turner > RV-10 QB > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355811#355811 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:10:47 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Panel Choice From: Kelly McMullen There is if you base like I do under a Mode C veil. I'm well familiar with the rules. Anyone know if there is any potential for damage to solid state pressure sensors used for airspeed in EFIS systems like a mechanical airspeed can be damaged if you take pressure up to high altitude while leaving pitot pressure at surface? On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 3:42 PM, Bob Turner wrote: > > Kelly, > > Actually, if you fly only VFR, there is no requirement for a pitot-static or transponder inspection. Of course, you may not use the transponder, which means no Class B or C, not above 10,000', etc. Which is why I thought maybe I misunderstood Tim's post. Did he mean biannual (which is what he wrote) meaning instrument currency every 6 months? Tim? > > -------- > Bob Turner > RV-10 QB > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355817#355817 > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:18:59 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Plane Power and Lycoming Pulley Alignment Issue From: "rleffler" Here's the post that everyone has been waiting to see. I installed the new spacers from Plane Power this afternoon. They are a perfect fit for those that purchased a YIO-540-D4A5 from Vans and have a LW-12227 ring gear. If you fall into this category, I would highly recommend that you call Vans and demand that they supply you the appropriate Plane Power spacers for free. They made the decision to switch ring gears and they packaged the Plane Power 60a alternator in the firewall forward package, which out performing the necessary engineering to ensure power integration. I will say that the folks at Plane Power have been great to work with to find the appropriate solution. Lycoming was also cooperative in supplying Plane Power the appropriate data to allow Plane Power to fabricate new spacers. Also note that if you have a 70a alternator, you'll need a different set of spacers. I worked with Jason and Dick at Plane Power, Marlous at Lycoming (Van's sales rep), and Gus at Vans. Jason and Dick provided outstanding customer support. My last email to Gus recommended that Vans supply all customers that purchased this combination with the spacers at no charge and issue a service bulletin to ensure nobody attempts to fly in this configuration since it isn't safe. bob -------- Bob Leffler N410BL - FWF RV-10 #40684 http://mykitlog.com/rleffler Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355824#355824 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:27:47 PM PST US From: Dave Saylor Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Panel Choice Kelly, The EFIS pressure sensors seem to be immune to rapid changes. The guy who does our checks does nothing but static checks--not even repairs, just checks. He says the new stuff can go as fast as the pressure will change. I've seen him slam EFIS around in a way that would bust a mechanical instrument in a heartbeat and it just keeps working, mine included. The hardest part now is disconnecting the mechanical airspeed! Dave Saylor AirCrafters 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 95076 831-722-9141 Shop 831-750-0284 Cell On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 4:08 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > There is if you base like I do under a Mode C veil. I'm well familiar > with the rules. > Anyone know if there is any potential for damage to solid state > pressure sensors used for airspeed in EFIS systems like a mechanical > airspeed can be damaged if you take pressure up to high altitude while > leaving pitot pressure at surface? > > On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 3:42 PM, Bob Turner > wrote: > > > > Kelly, > > > > Actually, if you fly only VFR, there is no requirement for a pitot-static > or transponder inspection. Of course, you may not use the transponder, which > means no Class B or C, not above 10,000', etc. Which is why I thought maybe > I misunderstood Tim's post. Did he mean biannual (which is what he wrote) > meaning instrument currency every 6 months? Tim? > > > > -------- > > Bob Turner > > RV-10 QB > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355817#355817 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:28:58 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Panel Choice From: "nukeflyboy" There are two different databases which seem to cause confusion. The one required to fly legal IFR is for the 430/530/650/750 or whatever certified navigator you are using. If you fly IFR you can't get around this cost, even for paper. The other one is just for the backdrop on the moving map in the EFIS. Updates are free from GRT/AFS. With a G650/750 IFR subscription the EFIS moving map updates are free for the G3X. If you have a 430/530 then you pay an additional subscription to update the EFIS. I do not know the frequency of updates for the moving map in a GRT/AFS system. -------- Dave Moore RV-6 flying RV-10 QB - Working G3X panel Rest almost done Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355838#355838 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.