---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 10/24/11: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:27 AM - Re: Panel Choice (orchidman) 2. 04:47 AM - Re: Re: Panel Choice (Jim Combs) 3. 06:55 AM - Re: Panel Choice (Strasnuts) 4. 07:20 AM - Re: Panel Choice (dmaib@me.com) 5. 07:43 AM - Re: Re: Panel Choice (Tim Olson) 6. 07:43 AM - Re: Re: Panel Choice (DLM) 7. 07:49 AM - Re: Re: Panel Choice (DLM) 8. 10:00 AM - Re: Fuel Leak (John Cumins) 9. 04:30 PM - I'm back! (James Hein) 10. 05:17 PM - Re: I'm back! (Sean Stephens) 11. 05:52 PM - Re: I'm back! (Michael Kraus) 12. 06:21 PM - Re: I'm back! (Billy & Tami Britton) 13. 06:34 PM - Re: I'm back! (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 14. 06:42 PM - Re: I'm back! (James Hein) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:27:49 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Panel Choice From: "orchidman" nukeflyboy wrote: > I do not know the frequency of updates for the moving map in a GRT/AFS system. Not sure about GRT but AFS, the maps are updated every 28 days. -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 (N2GB Flying) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355849#355849 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:47:57 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Panel Choice From: Jim Combs Sean, yes to be fair we all have to pay the darn recurring fees for the data updates. I can see the fees for XM radio, they have to pay to build, launch and fly the satellites. But the other data is (I think) supplied by the FAA. One can download approach plates in PDF form directly from the FAA.Gov website for free. The other data (Airport info, tower data also is from the FAA. So the question I have is what is the value add from the data suppliers (Garmin, Jepp) that warrants the large expense. Jim C D Not Archive On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 7:01 PM, Seano wrote: > > I actually was adding 700$ that I believe was the cost for the XM package I > purchased. 600$ is the g3x bundle. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 23, 2011, at 17:57, "Bob Turner" wrote: > > > > > Just to add on to "apples to apples..." > > > > Don't forget the quoted $1300 includes xm weather (up to $600/yr > depending on subscription). I don't think anyone else was including that > cost in their discussion. > > > > OTOH: Is anyone NOT doing biennial pitot/static/transponder inspections, > as I thought Tim was implying? To not do so would restrict you to below > 10,000', 30 nm away from all Class B, and no Class C, areas. > > > > -------- > > Bob Turner > > RV-10 QB > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355811#355811 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:55:29 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Panel Choice From: "Strasnuts" I don't think anything warrants the big expense for the data but it is worth it for me to have the G3X. AOPA supplies the airport directory. The flight charts are geo-referenced and are government. NAVDATA is from Jeppesen and includes N,C,and S America. Obstacles are from Garmin (i believe). SAFETAXI is from government charts and is geo-reference. Terrain is from Garmin and shows N, C, and S America. I have had absolutely no issues with the G3X/GX Pilot since I wired it and installed it. When I wish it had a certain functions, the next update bundle has it in it plus more options. The cost of the data is high but reliability, ease of use, company history/size and having everything from the same company "talk" to each other is nice in the cockpit and is why I bought the G3X. Although, I do have a separate D6 for AHRS/Magnetometer back-up. -------- 40936 RV-10 SB N801VR Flying Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355859#355859 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:09 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Panel Choice From: "dmaib@me.com" Jim Combs wrote: > So the question I have > is what is the value add from the data suppliers (Garmin, Jepp) that warrants the large expense. > > Jim C > > > [b] Simple supply and demand. capitalism at work. So Jim hits it right on the head: why do they get to sell, for profit, data that is generated by taxpayer dollars? [Evil or Very Mad] Corrupted capitalism?? do not archive -------- David Maib RV-10 #40559 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355862#355862 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:43:20 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Panel Choice Not that I'd EVER want to defend Jeppesen, but, the actual programming and linking of the approaches, created from the waypoints the feds have, is actually done by Jepp for these navigator devices. So that's where the value add comes in. If you just solely use Government data, all you'll really have, in electronic form, is a bunch of waypoints or fixes. Sure, for a VFR pilot, that's fine, because you'll now have your airport data and some fixes and intersections, but, it doesn't give you anything to actually fly an approach USING your system. (i.e. no coupled approaches) Yes, the feds do this for their paper charts, but the programming is different for each navigator device, so Jepp takes the data and builds the approaches into the various devices required format. So without Jepp doing that, your options are limited. Now that said, the Aspen stuff I guess is all done by Seattle avionics. They use the gov't data to build the databases for the Aspen stuff and do the approaches too. Can they do it for other devices? Sure, they absolutely can. But, they won't, and that's because they would get sued by Garmin and Jepp if they stepped on their toes and started doing this for the Garmin devices. They could do it for systems like the Chelton system...they still may get sued, but they would be at a lower risk of that, but then they have 2 problems....1 is that they take on liability, and 2 is that they won't make a huge profit on the effort to make it worthwhile because there aren't that many systems out there. It takes a certain quantity of systems to make it worthwhile. If an individual had the talent, and time, the government data is available, and by taking countless hours of time, you could script it so that you could generate an actual Garmin db out of it if you reverse engineer the format, but keeping up with the changes on a 28 day cycle would make it a full time job....so you probably couldn't do it nationwide without dedicated staff. So really, there is value add for people who want to actually fly IFR, doing coupled approaches. If you want to go VFR only, it is far less valuable, and the economical alternative is to do an annual database update on your EFIS, and use an iPad navigating VFR and keeping that data current. Tim On 10/24/2011 9:16 AM, dmaib@me.com wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: "dmaib@me.com" > > > Jim Combs wrote: >> So the question I have >> is what is the value add from the data suppliers (Garmin, Jepp) that warrants the large expense. >> >> Jim C >> >> >> [b] > > > Simple supply and demand. capitalism at work. So Jim hits it right on the head: why do they get to sell, for profit, data that is generated by taxpayer dollars? [Evil or Very Mad] Corrupted capitalism?? > > do not archive > > -------- > David Maib > RV-10 #40559 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355862#355862 > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:43:36 AM PST US From: "DLM" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Panel Choice IIRC flying IFR in the big birds requires three independent ways to keep the dirty side down in IMC. I accomplished this with a Chelton system as primary and a GRT Sport system as backup. The tie breaker is the Trutrak autopilot that can with its own solid state gyros ignore all inputs from the EFIS systems and fly the aircraft independently. The EFIS systems each have their own single dependency but their dependencies are different. Obviously all three systems must share in some fashion the primary and backup electrical system. I buy the Jepp/Chelton updates for the Cheltons for $550 annually; GRT updates are free and Trutrak has updated my Digiflite software without charge several times. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Strasnuts Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 6:50 AM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Panel Choice I don't think anything warrants the big expense for the data but it is worth it for me to have the G3X. AOPA supplies the airport directory. The flight charts are geo-referenced and are government. NAVDATA is from Jeppesen and includes N,C,and S America. Obstacles are from Garmin (i believe). SAFETAXI is from government charts and is geo-reference. Terrain is from Garmin and shows N, C, and S America. I have had absolutely no issues with the G3X/GX Pilot since I wired it and installed it. When I wish it had a certain functions, the next update bundle has it in it plus more options. The cost of the data is high but reliability, ease of use, company history/size and having everything from the same company "talk" to each other is nice in the cockpit and is why I bought the G3X. Although, I do have a separate D6 for AHRS/Magnetometer back-up. -------- 40936 RV-10 SB N801VR Flying Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355859#355859 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:16 AM PST US From: "DLM" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Panel Choice As a retired IT guy, they can charge what they like to massage the data and insert it into their hardware. Certainly someone could write something comparable/compatible and perform the function but why go to the effort/expense to produce and maintain same? -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dmaib@me.com Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 7:17 AM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Panel Choice Jim Combs wrote: > So the question I have > is what is the value add from the data suppliers (Garmin, Jepp) that warrants the large expense. > > Jim C > > > [b] Simple supply and demand. capitalism at work. So Jim hits it right on the head: why do they get to sell, for profit, data that is generated by taxpayer dollars? [Evil or Very Mad] Corrupted capitalism?? do not archive -------- David Maib RV-10 #40559 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355862#355862 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:00:01 AM PST US From: "John Cumins" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel Leak Thanks Dave 40864 Winds debur Top skins frep for primer From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 7:25 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Leak I'm pretty sure the tubing was 3003. --Dave On Oct 21, 2011, at 16:54, "John Cumins" wrote: Dave One question on the tubing. Was it the 3002 tube van supplies that=99s real soft, for was it 5052 standard certified aircraft tubing. I have seen the 3000 series tubes leak over time way more so than the 5052 type. Also, I think you are dead on with the plugging of the holes on the flap motor. Great idea. I will for sure do that on mine when I get to that point. Thanks for all the great information that you pass on the list as you become aware of it. John Cumins President 707-425-7100 707-425-7576 Fax From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 1:50 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Leak I have an Andair valve with an AN fitting screwed into the bottom of it. The leak was between the AN fitting and the flared tube that I fabbed when I upgraded to the Andair about three years ago. I replaced the leaky flared tube with a flexible teflon hose. Dave Saylor AirCrafters 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 95076 831-722-9141 Shop 831-750-0284 Cell On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Roger Standley wrote: Dave, Just curious, which fuel valve did you use? Was the leak fixed by tightening or tube replacement? Roger _____ From: dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com Subject: RV10-List: Fuel Leak Listers, The other day on preflight I noticed a faint fuel smell in the cockpit. I talked myself into thinking it was nothing, and the next day it was stronger. Time to investigate. I found a pretty good drip coming from the flare at the bottom of the fuel valve. There was some staining and a little dampness on the bottom of the tunnel, easily fixed with a flex hose. It got me thinking again about the flap motor as an ignition source. To date there have been at least three RV-10 cockpit fires. Now of course keeping the fuel where it should be is key, but once it gets out, keeping it from igniting seems like a good defense. The flap motor in my RV-10 is described on the attached data sheet. There are four 6-32 threaded holes in each end of the motor. Two are used for mounting, one is blocked by the gearbox, leaving five that expose the brushes to the tunnel atmosphere. I wiped a little blob of silicone into the unused hole on the bottom of the motor, and put AN515-6R4s and split lock-washers in the top holes. The motor works fine, no issues with clearance. There's a picture of the motor with the outer case taken off, which I wouldn't recommend doing. Now I realize it's not necessary. I just included it to identify which hole was plugged with silicone. Putting the brushes and shims back together wasn't much fun. I kind of doubt that this makes the motor officially "explosion proof" but I don't see how it hurts and hopefully it's a tiny bit safer. Fixing the leak was the best solution. Dave Saylor AirCrafters 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 95076 831-722-9141 Shop 831-750-0284 Cell get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:30:03 PM PST US From: James Hein Subject: RV10-List: I'm back! Finally! After a failed partial knee replacement, then a revision, and other bumps along the way the past one and a half years....... I am finally getting back to building! Now for the shame: RV# 40384 ( I got a lot of catching up to do! ) Let's see, 20,000 unread emails.... What did I miss? Have fun! -Jim ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:17:33 PM PST US From: Sean Stephens Subject: Re: RV10-List: I'm back! #40303 here and I'm not even on the finishing kit yet. Started in the fall of 2004, still chugging along. I'm the tortoise in the race. Hopefully you won't pass me up too. :) Keep pounding... or in my case crimping... -Sean #40303 (wiring panel) On 10/24/11 6:25 PM, James Hein wrote: > > Finally! > After a failed partial knee replacement, then a revision, and > other bumps along the way the past one and a half years....... > > I am finally getting back to building! > > Now for the shame: > RV# 40384 ( I got a lot of catching up to do! ) > > Let's see, 20,000 unread emails.... What did I miss? > > Have fun! > -Jim > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:52:58 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: I'm back! From: Michael Kraus I had 40013, purchased the first hour on the first day.... First flight in May this year. So y'all aren't too slow.... -Mike Kraus Do not archive Sent from my iPhone On Oct 24, 2011, at 8:13 PM, Sean Stephens wrote: > > #40303 here and I'm not even on the finishing kit yet. Started in the fall of 2004, still chugging along. I'm the tortoise in the race. Hopefully you won't pass me up too. :) > > Keep pounding... or in my case crimping... > > -Sean #40303 (wiring panel) > > On 10/24/11 6:25 PM, James Hein wrote: >> >> Finally! >> After a failed partial knee replacement, then a revision, and other bumps along the way the past one and a half years....... >> >> I am finally getting back to building! >> >> Now for the shame: >> RV# 40384 ( I got a lot of catching up to do! ) >> >> Let's see, 20,000 unread emails.... What did I miss? >> >> Have fun! >> -Jim >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:21:25 PM PST US From: "Billy & Tami Britton" Subject: Re: RV10-List: I'm back! 40137 bought second hand in Winter '05. Still very slowly working on slow build wings (hopefully finish this winter). don't feel too bad!!! Bill Britton -------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Kraus" Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 7:48 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: I'm back! > > > I had 40013, purchased the first hour on the first day.... First flight > in May this year. So y'all aren't too slow.... > -Mike Kraus > > Do not archive > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 24, 2011, at 8:13 PM, Sean Stephens wrote: > >> >> #40303 here and I'm not even on the finishing kit yet. Started in the >> fall of 2004, still chugging along. I'm the tortoise in the race. >> Hopefully you won't pass me up too. :) >> >> Keep pounding... or in my case crimping... >> >> -Sean #40303 (wiring panel) >> >> On 10/24/11 6:25 PM, James Hein wrote: >>> >>> Finally! >>> After a failed partial knee replacement, then a revision, and other >>> bumps along the way the past one and a half years....... >>> >>> I am finally getting back to building! >>> >>> Now for the shame: >>> RV# 40384 ( I got a lot of catching up to do! ) >>> >>> Let's see, 20,000 unread emails.... What did I miss? >>> >>> Have fun! >>> -Jim >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:34:41 PM PST US From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Subject: Re: RV10-List: I'm back! 40352 and no comment. :) Michael Sent from my iPad2 On Oct 24, 2011, at 7:26 PM, "Sean Stephens" wrote: > > #40303 here and I'm not even on the finishing kit yet. Started in the fall of 2004, still chugging along. I'm the tortoise in the race. Hopefully you won't pass me up too. :) > > Keep pounding... or in my case crimping... > > -Sean #40303 (wiring panel) > > On 10/24/11 6:25 PM, James Hein wrote: >> >> Finally! >> After a failed partial knee replacement, then a revision, and other bumps along the way the past one and a half years....... >> >> I am finally getting back to building! >> >> Now for the shame: >> RV# 40384 ( I got a lot of catching up to do! ) >> >> Let's see, 20,000 unread emails.... What did I miss? >> >> Have fun! >> -Jim >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:42:17 PM PST US From: James Hein Subject: Re: RV10-List: I'm back! Thanks for the support guys! The real surprise is that the AME that is helping me get my medical back already has an RV-10 and is on this list, even though before today I did not know either. I also have a thyroid problem which, for some strange reason - is disqualifying! So I need a special issuance as well. Isn't it spooky sometimes how things fall into place? The last year has been a year of hell, but everything's looking up now! -Jim 40384 On 10/24/2011 9:18 PM, Billy & Tami Britton wrote: > > > 40137 bought second hand in Winter '05. Still very slowly working on > slow build wings (hopefully finish this winter). > > don't feel too bad!!! > > Bill Britton > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Michael Kraus" > Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 7:48 PM > To: > Subject: Re: RV10-List: I'm back! > >> >> >> I had 40013, purchased the first hour on the first day.... First >> flight in May this year. So y'all aren't too slow.... >> -Mike Kraus >> >> Do not archive >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Oct 24, 2011, at 8:13 PM, Sean Stephens >> wrote: >> >>> >>> #40303 here and I'm not even on the finishing kit yet. Started in >>> the fall of 2004, still chugging along. I'm the tortoise in the >>> race. Hopefully you won't pass me up too. :) >>> >>> Keep pounding... or in my case crimping... >>> >>> -Sean #40303 (wiring panel) >>> >>> On 10/24/11 6:25 PM, James Hein wrote: >>>> >>>> Finally! >>>> After a failed partial knee replacement, then a revision, and >>>> other bumps along the way the past one and a half years....... >>>> >>>> I am finally getting back to building! >>>> >>>> Now for the shame: >>>> RV# 40384 ( I got a lot of catching up to do! ) >>>> >>>> Let's see, 20,000 unread emails.... What did I miss? >>>> >>>> Have fun! >>>> -Jim >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.