Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:26 AM - Insurance Question for the Group (Steve Farner)
2. 08:48 AM - Re: Insurance Question for the Group (Tim Olson)
3. 10:37 AM - Re: Insurance Question for the Group (Robin Marks)
4. 11:10 AM - Re: Insurance Question for the Group (Bob Turner)
5. 11:12 AM - Re: Insurance Question for the Group (Dj Merrill)
6. 12:50 PM - Re: Insurance Question for the Group (tjyak50)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Insurance Question for the Group |
Apologies in advance if this is supposed to go in a different forum, but si
nce we were talking insurance last week, I was hoping someone could point m
e in the right direction.
I am an RV 10 builder in the early stages. It looks like I'm going to be on
the "ultra slow build" plan. In the meantime, I have access to a Bonanza,
but am having some insurance issues. I have 350 hours and an instrument r
ating, 25 hours complex. I cannot be put on as a named insured under his p
olicy because I need 750 hours and 100 hours in type. This is because he h
as a higher liability coverage than the norm of $1,000,000.
I'm content with a $1,000,000 policy while I build time, but have not found
a carrier that will insure two different pilots in the same aircraft at di
fferent levels of liability coverage. The explanation from the agent is th
at courts have always upheld the higher liability under situations like thi
s, so they just won't do it.
It just seems like a person like me should have a way to fly a Bonanza. If
anyone has ideas, let me know. Thanks!
Steve Farner
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Insurance Question for the Group |
It sounds like although you have access to a Bonanza, you really
don't have access to a Bonanza that YOU can use. I don't know
ANYTHING about the insurance industry other than the standard 1M
type policies, so I'm no good for advice there, but, you're
doing the right things. (i.e. the 350 hours and an
instrument rating and 25 in complex) My advice for ALL pilots is
to go build time before flying their RV-10. Get 100-200 hours
if possible, just for insurance sake, if not more. Then
DEFINITELY get the instrument rating, and go get HP signoff
before you even get to fly your RV-10. All those things are
worth it in the skills you get, plus they'll help with your
insurance rates.
My guess is, if you could find a different Bonanaza, or you
owned your own, that you'd be insurable just fine, and would
probably start at a higher rate but after a year the rate
would drop and keep dropping as you build time in type.
The >1M liability is probably killing you with that deal you
have now.
The RV-10 probably will not end up far off from the Bonanza
in how the insurance requirements work...they're similar
planes, and the RV-10 may have the higher hull value in
some cases of various model years. (Not against new ones
though)
Tim
On 11/10/2011 10:23 AM, Steve Farner wrote:
> Apologies in advance if this is supposed to go in a different forum, but
> since we were talking insurance last week, I was hoping someone could
> point me in the right direction.
>
> I am an RV 10 builder in the early stages. It looks like Im going to be
> on the ultra slow build plan. In the meantime, I have access to a
> Bonanza, but am having some insurance issues. I have 350 hours and an
> instrument rating, 25 hours complex. I cannot be put on as a named
> insured under his policy because I need 750 hours and 100 hours in type.
> This is because he has a higher liability coverage than the norm of
> $1,000,000.
>
> Im content with a $1,000,000 policy while I build time, but have not
> found a carrier that will insure two different pilots in the same
> aircraft at different levels of liability coverage. The explanation from
> the agent is that courts have always upheld the higher liability under
> situations like this, so they just wont do it.
>
> It just seems like a person like me should have a way to fly a Bonanza.
> If anyone has ideas, let me know. Thanks!
>
> Steve Farner
>
> *
Message 3
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| Subject: | Insurance Question for the Group |
I'm sure Tim is right that the higher liability is the sticking point. I was flying
my D35 Bonanza when I was a 65 hours TT pilot with minimum high performance
& retract sign off only. Insured by Avemco. Wow, one becomes a much better
pilot with the added hours.
Any chance the other individual will consider reducing his Liability limits? It's
either that or there's a Cherokee/Cessna in your future.
Robin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 8:45 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insurance Question for the Group
It sounds like although you have access to a Bonanza, you really don't have access
to a Bonanza that YOU can use. I don't know ANYTHING about the insurance
industry other than the standard 1M type policies, so I'm no good for advice there,
but, you're doing the right things. (i.e. the 350 hours and an instrument
rating and 25 in complex) My advice for ALL pilots is to go build time before
flying their RV-10. Get 100-200 hours if possible, just for insurance sake,
if not more. Then DEFINITELY get the instrument rating, and go get HP signoff
before you even get to fly your RV-10. All those things are worth it in the
skills you get, plus they'll help with your insurance rates.
My guess is, if you could find a different Bonanza, or you owned your own, that
you'd be insurable just fine, and would probably start at a higher rate but after
a year the rate would drop and keep dropping as you build time in type.
The >1M liability is probably killing you with that deal you have now.
The RV-10 probably will not end up far off from the Bonanza in how the insurance
requirements work...they're similar planes, and the RV-10 may have the higher
hull value in some cases of various model years. (Not against new ones
though)
Tim
On 11/10/2011 10:23 AM, Steve Farner wrote:
> Apologies in advance if this is supposed to go in a different forum,
> but since we were talking insurance last week, I was hoping someone
> could point me in the right direction.
>
> I am an RV 10 builder in the early stages. It looks like I'm going to
> be on the "ultra slow build" plan. In the meantime, I have access to a
> Bonanza, but am having some insurance issues. I have 350 hours and an
> instrument rating, 25 hours complex. I cannot be put on as a named
> insured under his policy because I need 750 hours and 100 hours in type.
> This is because he has a higher liability coverage than the norm of
> $1,000,000.
>
> I'm content with a $1,000,000 policy while I build time, but have not
> found a carrier that will insure two different pilots in the same
> aircraft at different levels of liability coverage. The explanation
> from the agent is that courts have always upheld the higher liability
> under situations like this, so they just won't do it.
>
> It just seems like a person like me should have a way to fly a Bonanza.
> If anyone has ideas, let me know. Thanks!
>
> Steve Farner
>
> *
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Insurance Question for the Group |
I can explain why the insurance company won't write a separate policy for you.
In most states, the rule is that an injured party gets paid no matter what it takes,
e.g., so-called "deep pockets" laws. So, for example:
Your friend has $10M liability
You have $1M
You have an accident, and the jury finds: The injured person needs $8M.
The jury finds that you were 99% responsible; your friend the owner is 1% responsible
because he let you fly, or didn't change the oil on time, or some other
excuse the plantiff's attorney will find.
You owe 99% of $8M = $7.92M
Your friend owes 1% of $8M = $80,000
Your insurance pays $1M. You pay $500K, your net worth, and declare bankruptcy.
Your friend, and his insurance company, are now on the hook for the remaining $$6.5M,
despite the "1% ruling".
See why they won't write you a separate policy?
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357396#357396
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Insurance Question for the Group |
On 11/10/2011 01:35 PM, Robin Marks wrote:
> It's either that or there's a Cherokee/Cessna in your future.
A Grumman Tiger might be a nice option more "closer" to the RV10.
-Dj
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Insurance Question for the Group |
Getting "Split Limits" is virtually impossible on smaller airplanes. On some larger
accounts it is not unusual to have them.
Example on a turboprop that might have $10m liability when "pro-flown" but only
$3m when "owner flown". These policies bring a lot more money to the underwriter
so they are more likely to do something special.
Your situation is pretty typical and not much can be done about it. In the past
i have had to cancel and re-write many policies for just this reason when a
new partner came into an airplane group. That gets to be more work than some
want to do.
Not a whole lot of options in your case.
Tj
www.airpowerinsurance.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357404#357404
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