Today's Message Index:
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0. 09:27 AM - Make Sure You're Listed -- List of Contributors Published Dec 1! (Matt Dralle)
1. 07:02 AM - Re: Why you don't just strap the stick back... (rv10flyer)
2. 07:48 AM - Re: Re: Why you don't just strap the stick back... (Marcus Cooper)
3. 08:28 AM - Re: Re: Why you don't just strap the stick back... (Rick Lark)
4. 08:37 AM - Re: Why you don't just strap the stick back... (Robin Marks)
5. 12:36 PM - Baggage area width @ door? (Tim Olson)
6. 01:06 PM - Re: Baggage area width @ door? (Geoff Combs)
7. 01:16 PM - Re: Baggage area width @ door? (Jay Rowe)
8. 01:20 PM - Re: Baggage area width @ door? (johngoodman)
9. 01:22 PM - Re: Baggage area width @ door? (Jeff Carpenter)
10. 01:22 PM - Re: Baggage area width @ door? (Tim Olson)
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| Subject: | Make Sure You're Listed -- List of Contributors Published Dec |
1!
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| Subject: | Re: Why you don't just strap the stick back... |
It does not matter what position your flaps and elevator are in if your plane is
not securely tied to Earth like that one appears.
I will strap my flight controls to prevent damage to them, not to keep the plane
from flying on its own. I understand that control position will affect the pull
on the ropes/anchors.
If I am aware of 30+ kt winds forecasted, I hope I can hangar it or fly it out
in time. If not then I will try to have full fuel, max baggage in front floor
area and flaps up. Check wx often when our babies are parked outside.
--------
Wayne Gillispie, A&P 5/93, PPC 10/08
Bldr# 40983SB Final assembly, aw cert, transition training with David Maib.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358622#358622
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| Subject: | Re: Why you don't just strap the stick back... |
I agree that a properly tied down aircraft is not going to be able to rotate and
thus gain lift regardless of the wind, and this practice is seen far and wide
in both experimental and certified aircraft. I found it a bit surprising that
there were such strong feelings about how "dumb" this technique was and yet
laud the idea of hovering at 2-20 feet in strong winds. I would offer that there
is no such thing as a guaranteed strong "steady" wind and a sudden decrease
while hovering a little above stall speed at these altitudes would result in
a day far more exciting than desired as you are falling nose low into the concrete.
I knew a guy while I was in high school that was generous enough to let
my fly his C-150. He started hotdogging takeoffs (unbeknownst to me) and would
build up some speed then zoom up and then push over as the plane got slow
(not much of a zoom in a 150). After he happened across a slight windshear going
up one day the plane stalled and he fell sideways into a parked row of airplanes.
He walked away, but my free airplane was no longer available. Don't
get me wrong, I'm all about doing fun things with the appropriate airplane and
conditions, I like to watch a J-3 stop in a matter of feet after landing on
a day with a little wind, and for 20 years I was paid to fly anything BUT straight
and level so I'll do anything in a airplane right up to the "stupid is as
stupid does" point. Just my opinion of course, but I was a little amazed
at the combination of ideas and emotions in this thread.
Have a Happy Thanksgiving!
Marcus
do not archive
On Nov 21, 2011, at 9:58 AM, rv10flyer wrote:
It does not matter what position your flaps and elevator are in if your plane is
not securely tied to Earth like that one appears.
I will strap my flight controls to prevent damage to them, not to keep the plane
from flying on its own. I understand that control position will affect the pull
on the ropes/anchors.
If I am aware of 30+ kt winds forecasted, I hope I can hangar it or fly it out
in time. If not then I will try to have full fuel, max baggage in front floor
area and flaps up. Check wx often when our babies are parked outside.
--------
Wayne Gillispie, A&P 5/93, PPC 10/08
Bldr# 40983SB Final assembly, aw cert, transition training with David Maib.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358622#358622
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| Subject: | Re: Why you don't just strap the stick back... |
Hey all, sorry if I upset anyone with my musings. Like I said, I've never attempted
these stunts myself and have managed in 34 years to have never put a small
dent in any aluminum. Hopefully I can keep it that way when I get my -10
completed......Rick
do not archive
--- On Mon, 11/21/11, Marcus Cooper <coop85@verizon.net> wrote:
> From: Marcus Cooper <coop85@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Why you don't just strap the stick back...
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Received: Monday, November 21, 2011, 3:45 PM
> Marcus Cooper <coop85@verizon.net>
>
> I agree that a properly tied down aircraft is not going to
> be able to rotate and thus gain lift regardless of the wind,
> and this practice is seen far and wide in both experimental
> and certified aircraft. I found it a bit surprising
> that there were such strong feelings about how "dumb" this
> technique was and yet laud the idea of hovering at 2-20 feet
> in strong winds. I would offer that there is no such
> thing as a guaranteed strong "steady" wind and a sudden
> decrease while hovering a little above stall speed at these
> altitudes would result in a day far more exciting than
> desired as you are falling nose low into the concrete.
> I knew a guy while I was in high school that was generous
> enough to let my fly his C-150. He started hotdogging
> takeoffs (unbeknownst to me) and would build up some speed
> then zoom up and then push over as the plane got slow (not
> much of a zoom in a 150). After he happened across a
> slight windshear going up one day the plane stalled and he
> fell sidewa!
> ys into a parked row of airplanes. He walked away,
> but my free airplane was no longer available. Don't
> get me wrong, I'm all about doing fun things with the
> appropriate airplane and conditions, I like to watch a J-3
> stop in a matter of feet after landing on a day with a
> little wind, and for 20 years I was paid to fly anything BUT
> straight and level so I'll do anything in a airplane right
> up to the "stupid is as stupid does" point.
> Just my opinion of course, but I was a little amazed
> at the combination of ideas and emotions in this thread.
>
> Have a Happy Thanksgiving!
> Marcus
>
> do not archive
>
>
> On Nov 21, 2011, at 9:58 AM, rv10flyer wrote:
>
>
> It does not matter what position your flaps and elevator
> are in if your plane is not securely tied to Earth like that
> one appears.
>
> I will strap my flight controls to prevent damage to them,
> not to keep the plane from flying on its own. I understand
> that control position will affect the pull on the
> ropes/anchors.
>
> If I am aware of 30+ kt winds forecasted, I hope I can
> hangar it or fly it out in time. If not then I will try to
> have full fuel, max baggage in front floor area and
> flaps up. Check wx often when our babies are parked
> outside.
>
> --------
> Wayne Gillispie, A&P 5/93, PPC 10/08
> Bldr# 40983SB Final assembly, aw cert, transition training
> with David Maib.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358622#358622
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lists This Month --
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> out more about
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> Dralle, List Admin.
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| Subject: | Why you don't just strap the stick back... |
Rick,
Maybe your uneventful flying the last third of a century is a partial testa
ment to his training method. At this point I would not belabor his qualific
ations. Techniques change, we don't do things the same way we once did in a
number of areas, why should flight instruction be any different. I much pr
efer an instructor that makes sure you can "fly the plane" before he signs
you off vs. an uninvolved instructor that does the bare minimum. I have a f
riend that received his certification after being trained by 3 different in
structors over the course of ~125 hours of dual! He didn't even have basic
Comm techniques and was what I considered to be an unsafe pilot because the
re seemed to be no method to his training even after all those hours. I ins
isted we fly together for probably another 15 hours just to force him into
the use systems that added consistency to his flying technique. It was hard
to break him of those bad habits. Ultimately finances forced him out of fl
ying which is likely a good thing for all concerned.
I would probably prefer your cowboy over most of the instructors currently
training on my field right now.
Slightly off topic... I was selling a beautiful Turbo Lance II with a near
zero time engine & turbo, club seating for 6 etc... A successful young busi
ness man in my town wanted to buy it. He was a 200 hour pilot talking about
taking his family and a friends family places. While it was an easy sale I
found another buyer with lots of experience in make & model. The original
buyer was pissed but I did not want to be the guy that sold this nice young
family an aircraft that wiped out two local families. It was so obvious to
me that he could get over his head in short order and there would be anoth
er local tragedy. Please note I am not "that guy" that has to sell his RV e
ngine separate from the airframe to avoid personal liability. This situatio
n just reeked of calamity. I am still happy with my decision even if it lef
t some hard feelings.
Robin
Do Not Archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Lark
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Why you don't just strap the stick back...
Tim, you are probably right, the hovering was not a huge risk. None the le
ss, I have never attempted it myself. Thinking back, that same instructor
used to have me practise precautionary approaches into farmer's field's and
we would let the main wheels touch down, and bouncy a bit before we'd lift
off again. I guess in a way it was good experience for me. Never have ha
d to actually need that experience though. I wonder if that instructor was
a bit of a "cowboy"?
Rck
Do not archive
--- On Sun, 11/20/11, Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com<mailto:Tim@myrv10.com>> wro
te:
From: Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com<mailto:Tim@myrv10.com>>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Why you don't just strap the stick back...
tronics.com<mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>>
Received: Sunday, November 20, 2011, 5:36 AM
It's from Russia. I originally found it from Flying Magazine.
Regarding the "stunt" with the instructor....I don't really think it's a hu
ge risky endeavor. After all, your ground speed is minimal, so really othe
r than gusts it shouldn't be a big danger. I've landed in 30+kt steady win
ds and it is fine if it's not too much of a crosswind or gusty...just feels
slow.
Now that said, I think the dangerous part would be the taxi back to the han
gar....so I don't think I'll ever hover the RV10....I'd rather not fly in w
inds with 50+ kts on the ground. If I could take off and land in 20kts and
hover at some other airport at 20ft @ 50kts, sure, I'd love to give that a
go. It's just a river of moving air, and airplanes only know airspeed....
.same as flying with 70kt tailwinds doesn't make the airplane different. I
've had some great trip times with high tailwinds. (and flew the rv10 like
a cessna with 50+ kt headwinds.
Tim
On Nov 19, 2011, at 10:44 PM, Linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net<http:
//ca.mc1207.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>> wrot
e:
Take another look at that video. Any large wind would just roll the plane
back, not make it fly. I think this video is in the same class as the 'mis
sing wing' video .... both are model airplanes. Doesn't look like an N# on
the fuselage side either.
Linn
On 11/19/2011 11:26 PM, Rick Lark wrote:
Phil, I remember the flight instructor I did most of my primary training wi
th (some 34 years ago) was able to hover a C-150. In a very strong steady
wind, he would use just the right amount of throttle, and could keep the ai
rcraft off the ground about 2-3 feet. Can't say I have ever tried it mysel
f, nor do I think I could. I can't imagine what an insurance company today
would have to say about a stunt like that.
Rick
#40956
Southampton, Ont
--- On Fri, 11/18/11, Phillip Perry <<http://ca.mc1207.mail.yahoo.com/mc/co
mpose?to=philperry9@gmail.com>philperry9@gmail.com<http://ca.mc1207.mail.
yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=philperry9@gmail.com>> wrote:
From: Phillip Perry <<http://ca.mc1207.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=philp
erry9@gmail.com>philperry9@gmail.com<http://ca.mc1207.mail.yahoo.com/mc/com
pose?to=philperry9@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Why you don't just strap the stick back...
=rv10-list@matronics.com>
Received: Friday, November 18, 2011, 12:36 AM
Agreed. I always thought that was a dumb idea.
I used to get in the sim and set the wind speed dead on the nose at a stead
y couple of knots above stalling speed.
Back on the stick and you're up.
Back further on the stick and you're up and going backwards.
Then forward on the stick and you're decending and picking up enough speed
to creep forward to your original takeoff point.
Fun exercise in the sim. I don't think it would be nearly as much fun with
the turbulence and unpredictable winds in real life.
Phil
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 6:20 PM, Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com<http://ca.mc1207
.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Tim@myrv10.com>> wrote:
.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Tim@myrv10.com>>
After Sun-N-Fun, I read some things about proper methods of
tying down that made some real sense. Later, I also wrote
some things too, to pass along the word.
One disturbing thing I see at OSH and other places when I
see RV's tied down, is that many builders simply strap their
stick back with the seatbelt to secure the stick, locking
the ailerons and elevators.
Here's a video that shows exactly why that's a dumb idea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-wjtP90d_g
If the above link doesn't work, go to youtube and search for
"Accidental VTOL Takeoff" posted by "MessedUpShet".
On my site, I show my rudder gust lock, with a strap
that holds the stick in the neutral position (both
axis) when I use the seat belt to pull the stick back.
That should help prevent such a thing to some degree.
Another thing that can cause you problems is having the
flaps left down. If you have problems keeping people
from stepping on your flaps, then great, put them down
when boarding and disembarking the plane. But, once
you're ready to leave the plane, put them up, because
in a wind storm, the flaps will work as designed...
They'll create extra drag, to allow the wind to push
your plane harder against it's tiedowns, and by trapping
the air under the wing it can add more lift.
Just some common sense things to pass along regarding
tying down...but the video was a real eye opener for me.
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
om" target="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/>
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| Subject: | Baggage area width @ door? |
Does anyone know the baggage width at the baggage door
area? I know I've measured this in the past to buy
luggage that fits, but I should have documented
it somewhere for future use.
I'm trying to find out if a foldable electric scooter
will fit.
Tim
do not archive
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| Subject: | Baggage area width @ door? |
Tim
baggage door opening is 20.25" long by 18.5" high
Geoff
Geoff Combs
President
614-834-5227p
614-834-5230f
www.aerosportmodeling.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:34 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Baggage area width @ door?
Does anyone know the baggage width at the baggage door area? I know I've
measured this in the past to buy luggage that fits, but I should have
documented it somewhere for future use.
I'm trying to find out if a foldable electric scooter will fit.
Tim
do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Baggage area width @ door? |
Tim: Just happened to be at the hanger. 38 3/4. at forward door edge and 34 1/2
at aft edge. (with flightline interior coverings). Jay Rowe 40301
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 21, 2011, at 12:33 PM, Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com> wrote:
>
> Does anyone know the baggage width at the baggage door
> area? I know I've measured this in the past to buy
> luggage that fits, but I should have documented
> it somewhere for future use.
>
> I'm trying to find out if a foldable electric scooter
> will fit.
> Tim
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Baggage area width @ door? |
Don't forget that "corner" that gets in the way....
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358753#358753
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Baggage area width @ door? |
20" ... you have a 12" x 20" rectangle before it starts to angle down
narrower at the bottom
Jeff Carpenter
On Nov 21, 2011, at 12:33 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Does anyone know the baggage width at the baggage door
> area? I know I've measured this in the past to buy
> luggage that fits, but I should have documented
> it somewhere for future use.
>
> I'm trying to find out if a foldable electric scooter
> will fit.
> Tim
> do not archive
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Baggage area width @ door? |
Thanks Geoff, I'll add that to the page too. I needed the
baggage depth, but I really probably should have asked
for the opening size too. Thanks for sending it!
Tim
On 11/21/2011 3:02 PM, Geoff Combs wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Geoff Combs"<g.combs@aerosportmodeling.com>
>
> Tim
> baggage door opening is 20.25" long by 18.5" high
>
> Geoff
>
>
> Geoff Combs
> President
>
> 614-834-5227p
> 614-834-5230f
> www.aerosportmodeling.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:34 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Baggage area width @ door?
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson<Tim@myrv10.com>
>
> Does anyone know the baggage width at the baggage door area? I know I've
> measured this in the past to buy luggage that fits, but I should have
> documented it somewhere for future use.
>
> I'm trying to find out if a foldable electric scooter will fit.
> Tim
> do not archive
>
>
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