Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:42 AM - Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner (rv10flyer)
2. 07:59 AM - Re: Re: Engine order blues (Werner Schneider)
3. 08:15 AM - Re: Re: Engine order blues (Kelly McMullen)
4. 08:43 AM - AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel (Les Kearney)
5. 09:37 AM - Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel (Bob Leffler)
6. 10:58 AM - New Electronic Ignition System (Tim Olson)
7. 11:11 AM - Re: New electronic ignition (Tim Olson)
8. 12:15 PM - Re: New electronic ignition (Carl Froehlich)
9. 01:18 PM - Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel (Bob Turner)
10. 01:36 PM - Re: Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel (Werner Schneider)
11. 01:47 PM - Re: Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel (Jim Combs)
12. 03:19 PM - Re: Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel (Pascal)
13. 06:39 PM - Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel (Andrew Long)
14. 07:05 PM - Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel (Bob Turner)
15. 07:07 PM - Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel (Les Kearney)
16. 07:10 PM - Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel (Jim Combs)
17. 07:23 PM - Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel (Les Kearney)
18. 08:13 PM - Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel (Andrew Long)
19. 08:25 PM - Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel (Bob Turner)
20. 09:01 PM - Re: Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel (Andrew Long)
21. 09:57 PM - Re: Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel (LES KEARNEY)
22. 09:57 PM - Save a few bucks on headsets (AirMike)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner |
If the master switch goes bad, I have an aux master contacter connected to pc680
bat which can also start engine. I also have aux ebus relay that sends power
up front to power all avionics from pc680 for up to 1.2 hrs. I have fuse blocks.
I have a little more wire and a bunch of switches, but I am okay with it.
We all do things a little different. There are advantages and disadvantages to
every choice we make during the build. When we all get together to go flying it
really won't matter much. RV-10's are great no matter how you build it.
--------
Wayne Gillispie, A&P 05/93 PP 10/08
Bldr# 40983SB Started 12/1/2009
N715WD Flying 12/1/2011. Paint 2012.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360666#360666
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Engine order blues |
Hi Jeff,
it's less advanced then all the other electronic ignition systems and it
is certified. I'm running it with great success on a 320 in my current
flying Glastar, using LOP and I'm happy with it. Just make sure the box
itself is very well protected against moisture, a friend of mine had an
issue his plane sitting in the outside heavy rain and then water
dropping into the box.
There is a special box for timing needed and with a serial cable you can
get directly at the status of the box. No timing curves to choose.
Standard rebuilt for maintenance as they have one standard magneto.
In case you don't want to keep it, drop me an email please glastar at
gmx dot net
Thanks
Werner
On 10.12.2011 16:09, Jeff Nichols wrote:
> My used engine came with LASER ignition system installed. Does anyone
> have any experience with this system as I am not flying yet and do plan
> on using it. I believe it is electronic with mag backup.
>
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Engine order blues |
The Lasar ignition system was owned by Unison. They have divested virtually
all their piston engine products. Not sure about the Lasar system status.
It also tends to make an engine run hotter, because Lycoming only gave them
the max temperature limits(475 max 425 cruise), not what are desirable
temps. So it probably should have a little less advance than it does. If it
is working, fine. I wouldn't spend any money on a system or go to the
trouble of installing one.
On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 8:48 AM, Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Jeff,
>
> it's less advanced then all the other electronic ignition systems and it
> is certified. I'm running it with great success on a 320 in my current
> flying Glastar, using LOP and I'm happy with it. Just make sure the box
> itself is very well protected against moisture, a friend of mine had an
> issue his plane sitting in the outside heavy rain and then water dropping
> into the box.
>
> There is a special box for timing needed and with a serial cable you can
> get directly at the status of the box. No timing curves to choose.
>
> Standard rebuilt for maintenance as they have one standard magneto.
>
> In case you don't want to keep it, drop me an email please glastar at gmx
> dot net
>
> Thanks
>
> Werner
>
>
> On 10.12.2011 16:09, Jeff Nichols wrote:
>
>> My used engine came with LASER ignition system installed. Does anyone
>> have any experience with this system as I am not flying yet and do plan
>> on using it. I believe it is electronic with mag backup.
>>
>>
>
>
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel |
Hi Andrew
Send me a note anytime. If I can help, I will. Here are the answers to your
questions:
1. No. I have internal battery backups in the EFIS screens. I made a
deliberate decision to eliminate any high power switches related to avionics
etc.
2. I have 2 X AF4500's, and a center stack top to bottom (PMA8000B audio
panel, Garmin GNS430 WAAS, Garmin SL30 NavCom, Garmin GTX 327 Txpndr,
TruTrak RV10 autopilot)
3. See attached. I will take a few more and send later (after I put the
panel back on).
4. My concern was that I did not want to install steam gauges / "normal"
backups if at all possible. By having dual EFIS screens with battery backups
and independent AHRS, I have complete redundancy. Although I have
contemplated adding an Airspeed / Altimeter / T&B as backups, I didn't see
the payback for the expense. I also have a Subaru engine that has added a
few interesting twists. The engine is powered by two independent buses each
with its own PC680 battery. The switches controlling the engine and related
components are all lever lock mil-spec Honeywell - the best I could find.
The buses also have their own circuit breakers (they are on the right side
of the panel). Should the need arise, I can take both batteries off line so
they are dedicated to the engine. I can also isolate the power to the engine
(in the event of a fire etc). Effectively, the VP-X controls everything
except the engine.
5. I purchased my cables from Tim at Approach Systems (Fast Stack). Given
the cost, why would you want to build your own. Tim's cables have superb
quality. Besides the potential for screwing up on home-grown cables is
enormous. There are are a lot of pins to be mapped. Tim also provides very
detailed info on the cables and how the pins are mapped. Seeing this, I
can't imaging doing this on my own - I just wouldn't know where to start.
6. I started out with a VP-100. I considered a VP200 but realized that a) it
duplicated much of what appears on my EFIS screens b) I didn't have the
panel real estate. After I purchased the VP100, VP came out with the VP-X
that integrated with the AFS EFIS. I talked to Marc at VP and he agreed to
let me swap the -100 for the -X.
I goggled the PAR100EX. It looks very nice. For my install I would still go
with the PMA800B. I like the features including the cell phone interface /
music interface etc. As well, I wanted a redundant NavComm. The PAR100EX
doesn't have the Nav side. For IFR, I need two independent sources of
navigation, The GNS430 WAAS is one, the SL30 is the other. That being said,
I also have another non-TSO'd WAAS puck GPS receiver I plan to install.
Something else you may not know. There is an AFS specific autopilot head
made by TruTrak. It is very simple as the advanced features are controlled
by the EFIS and not the AP head. I had originally ordered the TruTrak RV10
AP but later changed to the AFS version of TruTrak and saved some $$$$.
Cheers
Les
_____
From: Andrew Long [mailto:along@aanet.com.au]
Sent: December-11-11 2:36 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
Hi Les,
Your stack is almost exactly the same as the configuration I am looking at.
If I may ask some questions and keep in touch that would be great.
1. Do you have VP-X bypass switches allowing direct power to the various
instruments?
2. What is the full configuration of your panel by component?
3. Do you have any pictures of the panel?
4. What were the areas of concern that you addressed in the selection?
5. Did you purchase all the cables and Hub from Approach Systems Fast Stack,
or did you make some of your own cables?
6. Why the VP-X and not the VP-200?
The stack I am looking at is as follows:
*
2 x Advanced Flight Systems 5500 with GPS and backup batteries
*
Scorcerer RV-10 (Maybe AFS AP or Digitrack II)
*
Garmin GSN430 (Maybe a 430)
*
PAR100EX (Audio Panel/Coms combo)
*
GTX-327 (Transponder)
*
Vertical Power VP-200/400 or VP-X + harness
I would like any opinions you could offer on my selection, and any learnings
you have developed on your systems.
Thanks in advance.
Regards,
Andrew Long
www.ozrv10.com
> Hi
>
> This is one topic that I can add a bit of perspective. I have just powered
> up the avionics on my -10 that uses a VP-X integrated with am AFS 4500
> EFIS
> screens with the avionics backbone being provided by Approach Systems Fast
> Stack. No smoke and lots of pretty displays!
>
> All the wiring was done by me, myself and I. Although I have read
> everything
> on the VP-X etc, I was amazed at how simple the wiring was done. With Tim
> Hass's Fast Stack, I was left with wiring sensors, power lead, antennas
> etc.
> I started slowly as I was learning as I went but by the end I was pretty
> confident as to how things would turn out. There is still a lot of work
> involved in wiring - I was surprised about the amount of wire that goes to
> the tail.
>
> After seeing how the VP-X spins up on the EFIS, how easy it is to define
> circuits and how they operate, how the number of high energy wires being
> switched was reduced (all the VP-X switches are to ground), I can't
> imagine
> using a traditional bus bar for my avionics etc. It was beyond cool
> watching
> the avionics turn on, box by box, as I changed the VP-X configuration
> settings on the EFIS.
>
> With any system, it is wise to think about failure modse. I my case, if
> the
> VP-X fails I need only replace the box. Even if this happened in flight,
> my
> EFIS screens have internal backup batteries so it shouldn't be a huge
> issue.
>
> A final note, the support from Marc (VP) and Tim (Approach Systems) has
> been
> stellar. Both have been very helpful getting up a steep learning curve.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
> #40643
>
> _____
>
>
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
> Sent: December-10-11 2:41 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
>
>
> I agree completely with this. I just finished wiring an airframe with a
> VP-200. It took 2 days from start to finish. There is absolutely no way I
> could have done that the traditional way, with the bus bars, switches,
> breakers, etc. The VP keeps it clean and makes it easy, as well as giving
> a
> lot more information about a problem when you have it. In over 2,000 hours
> flown on VP's that I have installed, I have had to send a total of one
> unit
> back to VP for repair, and have never had a completely dead unit. As Robin
> said, you can't lump quality equipment made by VP with
> "nothing-but-headache" stuff from BM.
>
> Jesse Saint
> Saint Aviation, Inc.
> jesse@saintaviation.com
> C: 352-427-0285
> F: 815-377-3694
>
> On Dec 10, 2011, at 3:47 PM, Robin Marks wrote:
>
>
>
> I don't think you can lump VP and BMA in the same category. One is
> exceptionally well thought out and tested system while the other is a
> "let's
> start selling it and then work on finishing the development over promising
> while under delivering. I don't own a VP because my -10 build was too
> early
> but it is an impressive system. I kick myself for not adding it to my 8A
> build.
>
> Respectfully,
> Robin
> Do Not Archive
>
>
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
> Ofdavidsoutpost@comcast.net
> Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 12:29 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
>
> I could not agree more with Wayne. Yesterday I spent the day at my
> buddies
> cold (freezing) hanger to help trouble shoot electrical issues on the Cozy
> MKIV we built. He went with a Blue Mountain power board that has been
> nothing but trouble,,,, and you really need to know that stuff when it
> fails. And yes,,,,you are grounded until fixed. The last time it failed
> it
> took an electronic engineer from Visteon who is a good friend to fix it!
> No
> Thanks. Not bashing VP at all. Its just not for me.
>
> David Clifford
>
> RV-10 Builder
> Howell, MI
>
>
>
> _____
>
>
>
From: "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie@gmail.com>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 3:00:44 PM
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
>
>
> I used the show planes from Vans like Jessie is selling. Good deal if yoy
> choose that route.
>
> When it breaks it will be pulled out with a std flap switch put in place.
> I
> have the same problem as others with having to hit the down toggle
> position
> twice to go from 18 to 33 degrees flaps. Has to do with micro switches. It
> is just one more thing to go bad...more money/wire/weight.
>
> VP is a nice system unless it goes out then your grounded. I did not have
> the money for it anyway. I have learned with hvac systems that the more
> circuit boards you put on something the more expensive it is to fix and
> you
> better know your stuff to fix it yourself. One reason I do not sell 16
> seer+
> hvac systems.
>
> --------
> Wayne Gillispie, A&P 05/93 PP 10/08
> Bldr# 40983SB Started 12/1/2009
> N715WD Flying 12/1/2011. Paint 2012.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel |
I would second Les's comments about the PSE8000BT. I went with a gtn650. My
backup gps source is the farming unit afs sells. The sorcerer doesn't real
ly buy you much for the extra expense over the afs ap. primarily just the a
bility to use the ils approach independently of the efis
I too went with the vp-x, primarily for economic reasons. I wanted the vp-
200, but had tighten the budget.
I wired the panel myself. It isn't hard just tedious.
I am planning on using a Gemini PFD as my backup. Unfortunately that won't s
hip for another month.
I hope to be able to power my panel up in a couple weeks.
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 11, 2011, at 11:40 AM, "Les Kearney" <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
Hi Andrew
Send me a note anytime. If I can help, I will. Here are the answers to your q
uestions:
1. No. I have internal battery backups in the EFIS screens. I made a deliber
ate decision to eliminate any high power switches related to avionics etc.
2. I have 2 X AF4500's, and a center stack top to bottom (PMA8000B audio pan
el, Garmin GNS430 WAAS, Garmin SL30 NavCom, Garmin GTX 327 Txpndr, TruTrak R
V10 autopilot)
3. See attached. I will take a few more and send later (after I put the pane
l back on).
4. My concern was that I did not want to install steam gauges / "normal" bac
kups if at all possible. By having dual EFIS screens with battery backups an
d independent AHRS, I have complete redundancy. Although I have contemplated
adding an Airspeed / Altimeter / T&B as backups, I didn't see the payback f
or the expense. I also have a Subaru engine that has added a few interesting
twists. The engine is powered by two independent buses each with its own PC
680 battery. The switches controlling the engine and related components are a
ll lever lock mil-spec Honeywell - the best I could find. The buses also hav
e their own circuit breakers (they are on the right side of the panel). Shou
ld the need arise, I can take both batteries off line so they are dedicated t
o the engine. I can also isolate the power to the engine (in the event of a f
ire etc). Effectively, the VP-X controls everything except the engine.
5. I purchased my cables from Tim at Approach Systems (Fast Stack). Given th
e cost, why would you want to build your own. Tim's cables have superb quali
ty. Besides the potential for screwing up on home-grown cables is enormous. T
here are are a lot of pins to be mapped. Tim also provides very detailed inf
o on the cables and how the pins are mapped. Seeing this, I can't imaging do
ing this on my own - I just wouldn't know where to start.
6. I started out with a VP-100. I considered a VP200 but realized that a) it
duplicated much of what appears on my EFIS screens b) I didn't have the pan
el real estate. After I purchased the VP100, VP came out with the VP-X that i
ntegrated with the AFS EFIS. I talked to Marc at VP and he agreed to let me
swap the -100 for the -X.
I goggled the PAR100EX. It looks very nice. For my install I would still go w
ith the PMA800B. I like the features including the cell phone interface / mu
sic interface etc. As well, I wanted a redundant NavComm. The PAR100EX doesn
't have the Nav side. For IFR, I need two independent sources of navigation,
The GNS430 WAAS is one, the SL30 is the other. That being said, I also have
another non-TSO'd WAAS puck GPS receiver I plan to install.
Something else you may not know. There is an AFS specific autopilot head mad
e by TruTrak. It is very simple as the advanced features are controlled by t
he EFIS and not the AP head. I had originally ordered the TruTrak RV10 AP bu
t later changed to the AFS version of TruTrak and saved some $$$$.
Cheers
Les
From: Andrew Long [mailto:along@aanet.com.au]
Sent: December-11-11 2:36 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
Hi Les,
Your stack is almost exactly the same as the configuration I am looking at. I
f I may ask some questions and keep in touch that would be great.
1. Do you have VP-X bypass switches allowing direct power to the various ins
truments?
2. What is the full configuration of your panel by component?
3. Do you have any pictures of the panel?
4. What were the areas of concern that you addressed in the selection?
5. Did you purchase all the cables and Hub from Approach Systems Fast Stack,
or did you make some of your own cables?
6. Why the VP-X and not the VP-200?
The stack I am looking at is as follows:
2 x Advanced Flight Systems 5500 with GPS and backup batteries
Scorcerer RV-10 (Maybe AFS AP or Digitrack II)
Garmin GSN430 (Maybe a 430)
PAR100EX (Audio Panel/Coms combo)
GTX-327 (Transponder)
Vertical Power VP-200/400 or VP-X + harness
I would like any opinions you could offer on my selection, and any learnings
you have developed on your systems.
Thanks in advance.
Regards,
Andrew Long
www.ozrv10.com
> Hi
>
> This is one topic that I can add a bit of perspective. I have just powered
> up the avionics on my -10 that uses a VP-X integrated with am AFS 4500
> EFIS
> screens with the avionics backbone being provided by Approach Systems Fast
> Stack. No smoke and lots of pretty displays!
>
> All the wiring was done by me, myself and I. Although I have read
> everything
> on the VP-X etc, I was amazed at how simple the wiring was done. With Tim
> Hass's Fast Stack, I was left with wiring sensors, power lead, antennas
> etc.
> I started slowly as I was learning as I went but by the end I was pretty
> confident as to how things would turn out. There is still a lot of work
> involved in wiring - I was surprised about the amount of wire that goes to
> the tail.
>
> After seeing how the VP-X spins up on the EFIS, how easy it is to define
> circuits and how they operate, how the number of high energy wires being
> switched was reduced (all the VP-X switches are to ground), I can't
> imagine
> using a traditional bus bar for my avionics etc. It was beyond cool
> watching
> the avionics turn on, box by box, as I changed the VP-X configuration
> settings on the EFIS.
>
> With any system, it is wise to think about failure modse. I my case, if
> the
> VP-X fails I need only replace the box. Even if this happened in flight,
> my
> EFIS screens have internal backup batteries so it shouldn't be a huge
> issue.
>
> A final note, the support from Marc (VP) and Tim (Approach Systems) has
> been
> stellar. Both have been very helpful getting up a steep learning curve.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
> #40643
>
> _____
>
>
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
> Sent: December-10-11 2:41 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
>
>
> I agree completely with this. I just finished wiring an airframe with a
> VP-200. It took 2 days from start to finish. There is absolutely no way I
> could have done that the traditional way, with the bus bars, switches,
> breakers, etc. The VP keeps it clean and makes it easy, as well as giving
> a
> lot more information about a problem when you have it. In over 2,000 hours
> flown on VP's that I have installed, I have had to send a total of one
> unit
> back to VP for repair, and have never had a completely dead unit. As Robin
> said, you can't lump quality equipment made by VP with
> "nothing-but-headache" stuff from BM.
>
> Jesse Saint
> Saint Aviation, Inc.
> jesse@saintaviation.com
> C: 352-427-0285
> F: 815-377-3694
>
> On Dec 10, 2011, at 3:47 PM, Robin Marks wrote:
>
>
>
> I don't think you can lump VP and BMA in the same category. One is
> exceptionally well thought out and tested system while the other is a
> "let's
> start selling it and then work on finishing the development over promising
> while under delivering. I don't own a VP because my -10 build was too
> early
> but it is an impressive system. I kick myself for not adding it to my 8A
> build.
>
> Respectfully,
> Robin
> Do Not Archive
>
>
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
> Ofdavidsoutpost@comcast.net
> Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 12:29 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
>
> I could not agree more with Wayne. Yesterday I spent the day at my
> buddies
> cold (freezing) hanger to help trouble shoot electrical issues on the Cozy
> MKIV we built. He went with a Blue Mountain power board that has been
> nothing but trouble,,,, and you really need to know that stuff when it
> fails. And yes,,,,you are grounded until fixed. The last time it failed
> it
> took an electronic engineer from Visteon who is a good friend to fix it!
> No
> Thanks. Not bashing VP at all. Its just not for me.
>
> David Clifford
>
> RV-10 Builder
> Howell, MI
>
>
>
> _____
>
>
>
From: "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie@gmail.com>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 3:00:44 PM
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
>
>
> I used the show planes from Vans like Jessie is selling. Good deal if yoy
> choose that route.
>
> When it breaks it will be pulled out with a std flap switch put in place.
> I
> have the same problem as others with having to hit the down toggle
> position
> twice to go from 18 to 33 degrees flaps. Has to do with micro switches. It
> is just one more thing to go bad...more money/wire/weight.
>
> VP is a nice system unless it goes out then your grounded. I did not have
> the money for it anyway. I have learned with hvac systems that the more
> circuit boards you put on something the more expensive it is to fix and
> you
> better know your stuff to fix it yourself. One reason I do not sell 16
> seer+
> hvac systems.
>
> --------
> Wayne Gillispie, A&P 05/93 PP 10/08
> Bldr# 40983SB Started 12/1/2009
> N715WD Flying 12/1/2011. Paint 2012.
>
>
>
>
>
>
<IMG_0781.JPG>
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | New Electronic Ignition System |
This was sent to me for posting by Brent Regan. He's developed
many things that have been top notch in quality, so I'm curious
to see how these things take off. I have no other info on them
personally, so take this as a press release, and contact BPA
with your questions...
Tim
-----------------------------------
A while ago I was approached by Monty Barrett of BPA to develop and
ignition system for the 9 cylinder M14 radial engine. The magnetos for
these engines were out of production and unreliable. We applied our
experience designing certified aerospace electronics and came up with a
magneto replacement system with a Timing Controller that featured an
internal poly-phase alternator, manifold pressure sensor, independent
High-Q magnetic flux sensors and dual microprocessors with cascading
redundancy. Everything is packaged in a billet machined, O-ring sealed
MIL-Spec, water and dust proof anodized housing. The Timing Controller
is coupled to independent "Coil Near Plug" high energy Smart Coils that
deliver a measured 80+mJ of energy to the spark plasma. The entire
system is rated to 125 degrees C operating temperature (257 degF), 10G
sign-on-random vibration, direct and indirect lightning effects as well
as a host of other DO160F test requirements.
While we were designing this system it occurred to me that I would like
a couple of these on my IV-P, so we designed it so it could accommodate
6 or 9 cylinder engines. The only difference being the internal sensor
ratio and firmware.
The system components have passed qualification testing and the 9
cylinder system is currently on the BPA dynamometer undergoing
performance mapping and endurance testing. This is where we develop the
advance parameters for RPM and manifold pressure. It really isn't
practical to attempt to develop these advance curves without a dynamometer.
Monty at BPA is currently booking orders for the 9 cylinder M14 system.
The problem with the 6 cylinder "market" is that there are many
variables and each significant variant of manufacturer, induction system
and compression ratio needs to be dynomometer qualified. So, to solve
this problem Monty will be offering a significant discount on the
ignition system to select 6 cylinder customers who have BPA perform
their overhaul and consent to having Monty performance map their engine
after the post overhaul dyanamometer run-in.
The reason for the dyno testing is that it is not a good idea to just
make a guess at the correct timing based on RPM and manifold pressure
and then go fly. That would be like buying a suit out of a catalog. A
good outcome is unlikely.
The attached picture shows the Timing Controller. It replaces the
magneto and contains the poly phase alternator, electronics and manifold
pressure sensor. The MIL-Spec connector is the interface to the
individual coils. The red cap covers the -4 JIC threaded fitting for the
manifold pressure connection. Under the blue cap are the firmware update
connector and integral static timing light. There is NO separate "Brain
Box" to deal with.
The system is not available for 4 cylinder engines at this time.
If you are interested, contact BPA http://www.bpaengines.com
Regards
Brent Regan
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: New electronic ignition |
I've heard a few people over the years that have a problem with Klaus,
so it's not an entirely foreign thing. That said, he's been great
to talk to for me, and I've stopped by his hangar on one of our trips
and seen his operation. He can be a very personable guy.
What I think sometimes happens with all the Avionics and other
aircraft electronics is the same thing that happens with computers
and geek toys in general...a big burnout in dealing with complete
idiots. (not implying anything, Mike...this is a general thing.)
Manufacturers get really tired of morons buying their products
and getting in over their heads, not taking the time to
understand avionics, wiring, or even fully read the manuals. I've
spent SO much time myself helping Chelton users who just refuse
to RTFM! It's absurd that people think that they can buy a
device, and just look at a wiring diagram and plug it all together
and have it work well. Then they call complaining that things
don't work, only to make the guy take the time to ask if they've
remembered to do these 8 or 10 forgotten steps in the install
manual. I have to support computer users on a daily basis
and I can tell you, it can make you pretty grumpy. Not saying
this is what happens with Klaus, but it is something to be
aware of. Many of us who have better experiences with vendors
tend to perhaps be a little more diligent in our manual
reading so that we don't rely on the vendor so much. That's
also the beauty of this forum....you can ask dumb questions and
get pointed in the right direction by friends...not have to
go get your vendor all ticked off that you didn't take the
time to read everything they wrote. So I guess the moral
of the story is, read the manuals, try to be a good customer,
and maybe rely on your fellow forum folks for some tips
on things before you dive in too hard with vendor support.
Come to think of it, isn't that what we do with Van's and the
kits?
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
On 12/10/2011 5:44 PM, Michael Kraus wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Michael
> Kraus<n223rv@wolflakeairport.net>
>
> You must be the one guy that got along with Klaus....
>
> I sent him my flywheel to drill in the magnets, he drilled them in
> the wrong spot, and he blamed it on me?!?!? I didn't specify where
> they needed to be, he tells me?!?! Then he hangs up on me after he
> said it wasn't his problem?!?!
>
> Excuse me, I thought the guy who designed the system would know where
> they'd go, and if there was a question, I thought he'd ask....
>
> I'm not sure how many times you have had your prop on and off, but
> it's no small task and thanks to Klaus it has been more than I'd
> like....
>
> -Mike Kraus RV-10 61 hours
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 10, 2011, at 4:40 PM, "Albert Gardner"<ibspud@roadrunner.com>
> wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Albert
>> Gardner"<ibspud@roadrunner.com>
>>
>> I've had a Slick mag and a Lightspeed Plasma ignition on my RV-10
>> since new with over 660 hours on it now. A coil went bad and needed
>> to be replaced and just recently I added the panel meter that
>> displays rpm/mp/advance and the meter was intermittent. Worked
>> directly with Klaus both times and could not be more impressed with
>> his support. The Lightspeed unit is great, works well, and has been
>> very reliable. Can't say the same for the Slick mag. Albert
>> Gardner N991RV Yuma, AZ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | New electronic ignition |
Sorry Tim, I have to push back. As all on this list justifiably value your
recommendations, I offer another view on the Lightspeed issue.
Of all the vendors I have worked with, Klaus stands out as the worst for
after the sale service. While I agree many problem may be builder self
inflicted, I personally found three problems with Klaus' Plasma II+
ignition. For each one he consistently told me I was wrong, then after many
follow up communications (all initiated by me), he each time agreed the
product was as fault. On one of these problems I did field repair of five
of his boxes after he finally allowed me to send one back (at which point he
confirmed the fault - two wrong value resistors on the board). He never
even said thank you for me finding a major production problem with his
product.
When the ignitions worked, they worked well. The string of problems I had
with over just 450 hours of service however tripped my reliability tolerance
and made for an easy decision to pull them off my 8A.
I'm encouraged you have had a good engagement with Klaus. My experience
with Klaus was between 2002 and 2009 - perhaps he now sees his approach to
customer service has negatively impacted his market share and he has turned
a new leaf.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: New electronic ignition
I've heard a few people over the years that have a problem with Klaus,
so it's not an entirely foreign thing. That said, he's been great
to talk to for me, and I've stopped by his hangar on one of our trips
and seen his operation. He can be a very personable guy.
What I think sometimes happens with all the Avionics and other
aircraft electronics is the same thing that happens with computers
and geek toys in general...a big burnout in dealing with complete
idiots. (not implying anything, Mike...this is a general thing.)
Manufacturers get really tired of morons buying their products
and getting in over their heads, not taking the time to
understand avionics, wiring, or even fully read the manuals. I've
spent SO much time myself helping Chelton users who just refuse
to RTFM! It's absurd that people think that they can buy a
device, and just look at a wiring diagram and plug it all together
and have it work well. Then they call complaining that things
don't work, only to make the guy take the time to ask if they've
remembered to do these 8 or 10 forgotten steps in the install
manual. I have to support computer users on a daily basis
and I can tell you, it can make you pretty grumpy. Not saying
this is what happens with Klaus, but it is something to be
aware of. Many of us who have better experiences with vendors
tend to perhaps be a little more diligent in our manual
reading so that we don't rely on the vendor so much. That's
also the beauty of this forum....you can ask dumb questions and
get pointed in the right direction by friends...not have to
go get your vendor all ticked off that you didn't take the
time to read everything they wrote. So I guess the moral
of the story is, read the manuals, try to be a good customer,
and maybe rely on your fellow forum folks for some tips
on things before you dive in too hard with vendor support.
Come to think of it, isn't that what we do with Van's and the
kits?
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
On 12/10/2011 5:44 PM, Michael Kraus wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Michael
> Kraus<n223rv@wolflakeairport.net>
>
> You must be the one guy that got along with Klaus....
>
> I sent him my flywheel to drill in the magnets, he drilled them in
> the wrong spot, and he blamed it on me?!?!? I didn't specify where
> they needed to be, he tells me?!?! Then he hangs up on me after he
> said it wasn't his problem?!?!
>
> Excuse me, I thought the guy who designed the system would know where
> they'd go, and if there was a question, I thought he'd ask....
>
> I'm not sure how many times you have had your prop on and off, but
> it's no small task and thanks to Klaus it has been more than I'd
> like....
>
> -Mike Kraus RV-10 61 hours
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 10, 2011, at 4:40 PM, "Albert Gardner"<ibspud@roadrunner.com>
> wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Albert
>> Gardner"<ibspud@roadrunner.com>
>>
>> I've had a Slick mag and a Lightspeed Plasma ignition on my RV-10
>> since new with over 660 hours on it now. A coil went bad and needed
>> to be replaced and just recently I added the panel meter that
>> displays rpm/mp/advance and the meter was intermittent. Worked
>> directly with Klaus both times and could not be more impressed with
>> his support. The Lightspeed unit is great, works well, and has been
>> very reliable. Can't say the same for the Slick mag. Albert
>> Gardner N991RV Yuma, AZ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel |
For complete redundancy when you have 2 similar systems, I'd suggest not upgrading
software in both units at the same time. Run one of them on the old software
until you're reasonably certain the new software has no bugs.
I've seen one post here where a software bug crashed all of his interconnected
systems.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360700#360700
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel |
And do a backup before you upgrade so you can switch back
Werner
On 11.12.2011 22:14, Bob Turner wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner"<bobturner@alum.rpi.edu>
>
> For complete redundancy when you have 2 similar systems, I'd suggest
not upgrading software in both units at the same time. Run one of them
on the old software until you're reasonably certain the new software has
no bugs.
>
> I've seen one post here where a software bug crashed all of his
interconnected systems.
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel |
One of the nice things about the setup that Les has is that the AP will fly
the plane all by itself. Heading changes can easily be dialed in to the AP
along with climb and descent all without any support from the EFIS units.
Make sure one provides a redundant GPS source. Given the 430W stays up
you have a moving map with com and let the AP fly the plane. Bare bones but
provides a solution if both EFIS units go south in IFR conditions.
Bob, You are correct to not upgrade both units until you have a reliable /
working update.
Jim C
N312F - 300+ hours
On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 4:14 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu> wrote:
>
> For complete redundancy when you have 2 similar systems, I'd suggest not
> upgrading software in both units at the same time. Run one of them on the
> old software until you're reasonably certain the new software has no bugs.
>
> I've seen one post here where a software bug crashed all of his
> interconnected systems.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360700#360700
>
>
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel |
"I'd suggest not upgrading software in both units at the same time"
May be fine with the AFS, but one can not do a software upgrade on a Dynon
Skyview unless both/all units are upgraded. it's a networked system
(master/slave, per se) or redundancy that requires all hardware (AP servos,
EMS, PFD, etc) are the same version otherwise the red XXX is what one will
get. With VP, there are separate circuits for each display, so if I lose one
VP powered circuit I'll have the display go dark (although I have a battery
backup), if I lose another quadrant of the VP, which say my other display or
servos are on, I lose that specific feature, but the Dynon continues to run
with the other display being the master.
"I've seen one post here where a software bug crashed all of his
interconnected systems."- happened to a Glasair just this week. In his case
a reboot was missing after the upgrade but nevertheless, you are correct it
would crash the complete system.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Turner
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 1:14 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel
For complete redundancy when you have 2 similar systems, I'd suggest not
upgrading software in both units at the same time. Run one of them on the
old software until you're reasonably certain the new software has no bugs.
I've seen one post here where a software bug crashed all of his
interconnected systems.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360700#360700
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel |
Hi Les,
Thanks for all that info. The AP you have runs
independant of the EFIS correct? So if your EFIS go down, it will run as a
full backup just like any other AP?
Also, I wanted to
know, do you still have the TruTrak RV10 autopilot as you listed in your setup.
Are you using it, if not, what price would you like for it? TT doesn't
seem to stock that version any longer. Is there a reason for that?
Regards,
Andrew Long
www.ozrv10.com
>
Hi Andrew
>
> Send me a note anytime. If I can help, I
will. Here are the answers to
> your
> questions:
>
> 1. No. I have internal battery backups in the EFIS
screens. I made a
> deliberate decision to eliminate any high
power switches related to
> avionics
> etc.
>
> 2. I have 2 X AF4500's, and a center stack top to bottom
(PMA8000B audio
> panel, Garmin GNS430 WAAS, Garmin SL30 NavCom,
Garmin GTX 327 Txpndr,
> TruTrak RV10 autopilot)
>
> 3. See attached. I will take a few more and send later (after I put
the
> panel back on).
>
> 4. My concern was
that I did not want to install steam gauges / "normal"
> backups if at all possible. By having dual EFIS screens with
battery
> backups
> and independent AHRS, I have
complete redundancy. Although I have
> contemplated adding an
Airspeed / Altimeter / T&B as backups, I didn't see
> the
payback for the expense. I also have a Subaru engine that has added a
> few interesting twists. The engine is powered by two independent
buses
> each
> with its own PC680 battery. The switches
controlling the engine and
> related
> components are
all lever lock mil-spec Honeywell - the best I could find.
> The
buses also have their own circuit breakers (they are on the right side
> of the panel). Should the need arise, I can take both batteries off
line
> so
> they are dedicated to the engine. I can also
isolate the power to the
> engine
> (in the event of a
fire etc). Effectively, the VP-X controls everything
> except the
engine.
>
> 5. I purchased my cables from Tim at
Approach Systems (Fast Stack). Given
> the cost, why would you
want to build your own. Tim's cables have superb
> quality.
Besides the potential for screwing up on home-grown cables is
>
enormous. There are are a lot of pins to be mapped. Tim also provides very
> detailed info on the cables and how the pins are mapped. Seeing
this, I
> can't imaging doing this on my own - I just wouldn't
know where to start.
>
> 6. I started out with a VP-100.
I considered a VP200 but realized that a)
> it
>
duplicated much of what appears on my EFIS screens b) I didn't have the
> panel real estate. After I purchased the VP100, VP came out
with the VP-X
> that integrated with the AFS EFIS. I talked to
Marc at VP and he agreed to
> let me swap the -100 for the -X.
>
> I goggled the PAR100EX. It looks very nice. For my
install I would still
> go
> with the PMA800B. I like
the features including the cell phone interface /
> music
interface etc. As well, I wanted a redundant NavComm. The PAR100EX
> doesn't have the Nav side. For IFR, I need two independent sources
of
> navigation, The GNS430 WAAS is one, the SL30 is the other.
That being
> said,
> I also have another non-TSO'd WAAS
puck GPS receiver I plan to install.
>
> Something else
you may not know. There is an AFS specific autopilot head
> made
by TruTrak. It is very simple as the advanced features are controlled
> by the EFIS and not the AP head. I had originally ordered the
TruTrak RV10
> AP but later changed to the AFS version of TruTrak
and saved some $$$$.
>
> Cheers
>
>
Les
>
>
>
> _____
>
>
From: Andrew Long [mailto:along@aanet.com.au]
>
Sent: December-11-11 2:36 AM
> To: kearney@shaw.ca
>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
>
>
> Hi Les,
>
> Your stack is almost exactly the
same as the configuration I am looking
> at.
> If I may
ask some questions and keep in touch that would be great.
>
> 1. Do you have VP-X bypass switches allowing direct power to the
various
> instruments?
> 2. What is the full
configuration of your panel by component?
> 3. Do you have any
pictures of the panel?
> 4. What were the areas of concern that
you addressed in the selection?
> 5. Did you purchase all the
cables and Hub from Approach Systems Fast
> Stack,
> or
did you make some of your own cables?
> 6. Why the VP-X and not
the VP-200?
>
> The stack I am looking at is as follows:
>
> *
>
> 2 x Advanced Flight Systems
5500 with GPS and backup batteries
> *
>
>
Scorcerer RV-10 (Maybe AFS AP or Digitrack II)
>
>
>
> *
>
> Garmin GSN430 (Maybe a 430)
> *
>
> PAR100EX (Audio Panel/Coms combo)
> *
>
> GTX-327 (Transponder)
>
>
>
> *
>
> Vertical Power VP-200/400 or
VP-X + harness
>
> I would like any opinions you could
offer on my selection, and any
> learnings
> you have
developed on your systems.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Regards,
> Andrew Long
>
www.ozrv10.com
>
>> Hi
>>
>>
This is one topic that I can add a bit of perspective. I have just
>> powered
>
>> up the avionics on my -10
that uses a VP-X integrated with am AFS 4500
>> EFIS
>> screens with the avionics backbone being provided by Approach
Systems
>> Fast
>
>> Stack. No smoke and
lots of pretty displays!
>>
>> All the wiring was
done by me, myself and I. Although I have read
>> everything
>> on the VP-X etc, I was amazed at how simple the wiring was
done. With
>> Tim
>> Hass's Fast Stack, I was left
with wiring sensors, power lead, antennas
>> etc.
>> I started slowly as I was learning as I went but by the end I
was pretty
>> confident as to how things would turn out. There
is still a lot of work
>> involved in wiring - I was surprised
about the amount of wire that goes
>> to
>
>> the tail.
>>
>> After seeing how the
VP-X spins up on the EFIS, how easy it is to define
>>
circuits and how they operate, how the number of high energy wires being
>> switched was reduced (all the VP-X switches are to ground),
I can't
>> imagine
>> using a traditional bus bar
for my avionics etc. It was beyond cool
>> watching
>> the avionics turn on, box by box, as I changed the VP-X
configuration
>> settings on the EFIS.
>>
>> With any system, it is wise to think about failure modse. I my
case, if
>> the
>> VP-X fails I need only replace
the box. Even if this happened in flight,
>> my
>>
EFIS screens have internal backup batteries so it shouldn't be a huge
>> issue.
>>
>> A final note, the support
from Marc (VP) and Tim (Approach Systems) has
>> been
>> stellar. Both have been very helpful getting up a steep
learning curve.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Les
>> #40643
>>
>> _____
>>
>>
>
From:
owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
>> Sent: December-10-11 2:41 PM
>> To:
rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV-10
Flap Positioner
>>
>>
>> I agree
completely with this. I just finished wiring an airframe with a
>> VP-200. It took 2 days from start to finish. There is
absolutely no way
>> I
>> could have done that the
traditional way, with the bus bars, switches,
>> breakers,
etc. The VP keeps it clean and makes it easy, as well as
>>
giving
>> a
>> lot more information about a
problem when you have it. In over 2,000
>> hours
>
>> flown on VP's that I have installed, I have had to send a
total of one
>> unit
>> back to VP for repair, and
have never had a completely dead unit. As
>> Robin
>
>> said, you can't lump quality equipment made by VP with
>> "nothing-but-headache" stuff from BM.
>>
>> Jesse Saint
>> Saint Aviation, Inc.
>> jesse@saintaviation.com
>> C: 352-427-0285
>> F: 815-377-3694
>>
>> On Dec 10, 2011,
at 3:47 PM, Robin Marks wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't think you can lump VP and BMA in the
same category. One is
>> exceptionally well thought out and
tested system while the other is a
>> "let's
>> start selling it and then work on finishing the development
over
>> promising
>
>> while under
delivering. I don't own a VP because my -10 build was too
>>
early
>> but it is an impressive system. I kick myself for not
adding it to my 8A
>> build.
>>
>>
Respectfully,
>> Robin
>> Do Not Archive
>>
>>
>
From:
owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
>>
Ofdavidsoutpost@comcast.net
>> Sent: Saturday, December 10,
2011 12:29 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
>>
>> I could not agree more with Wayne. Yesterday I spent the day at
my
>> buddies
>> cold (freezing) hanger to help
trouble shoot electrical issues on the
>> Cozy
>
>> MKIV we built. He went with a Blue Mountain power board that
has been
>> nothing but trouble,,,, and you really need to
know that stuff when it
>> fails. And yes,,,,you are grounded
until fixed. The last time it failed
>> it
>> took
an electronic engineer from Visteon who is a good friend to fix it!
>> No
>> Thanks. Not bashing VP at all. Its just not
for me.
>>
>> David Clifford
>>
>> RV-10 Builder
>> Howell, MI
>>
>>
>>
>> _____
>>
>>
>>
>
From: "rv10flyer"
<wayne.gillispie@gmail.com>
>> To:
rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011
3:00:44 PM
>> Subject: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
>>
"rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie@gmail.com>
>>
>> I used the show planes from Vans like Jessie is selling. Good
deal if
>> yoy
>> choose that route.
>>
>> When it breaks it will be pulled out with a std
flap switch put in
>> place.
>> I
>>
have the same problem as others with having to hit the down toggle
>> position
>> twice to go from 18 to 33 degrees
flaps. Has to do with micro switches.
>> It
>
>> is just one more thing to go bad...more money/wire/weight.
>>
>> VP is a nice system unless it goes out then your
grounded. I did not
>> have
>> the money for it
anyway. I have learned with hvac systems that the more
>>
circuit boards you put on something the more expensive it is to fix and
>> you
>> better know your stuff to fix it
yourself. One reason I do not sell 16
>> seer+
>>
hvac systems.
>>
>> --------
>> Wayne
Gillispie, A&P 05/93 PP 10/08
>> Bldr# 40983SB Started
12/1/2009
>> N715WD Flying 12/1/2011. Paint 2012.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel |
If you want an autopilot that can stand alone, I'll put in a pitch for Trio.
I have no connection to the company, it's just that I see them as the 'little guy'
and I think competition with the big guys is a good thing. With their recent
price reduction they are very competitive.
I cannot vouch for their interface with AFS; but I have a GRT EFIS (HX) and it
interfaces perfectly with it. And, works fine in a stand-alone mode.
Of course like all these autopilots it can only follow a GPS signal, not an ILS
or VOR, in the stand alone mode.
If you decide to go this route be sure to order the auto pitch trim option. I use
this even when hand-flying (it can be used when the servos are off) for a very
fine pitch trim adjustment.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360722#360722
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel |
Hi Andrew
I have yet to investigate all the possible A/P EFIS failure modes. I suspect
the A/P would work quite fine without the EFIS screens, however. It would
mean just a bit more work to get the data into the A/P head. Perhaps someone
more knowledgeable than I can get a more authoratiative answer - I still
have a stack of manuals to read.
I don't have the TruTrak RV10 A/P (never did). I changed my order before it
was shipped.
Cheers
Les
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Long
Sent: December-11-11 7:35 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel
Hi Les,
Thanks for all that info. The AP you have runs independant of the EFIS
correct? So if your EFIS go down, it will run as a full backup just like any
other AP?
Also, I wanted to know, do you still have the TruTrak RV10 autopilot as you
listed in your setup. Are you using it, if not, what price would you like
for it? TT doesn't seem to stock that version any longer. Is there a reason
for that?
Regards,
Andrew Long
www.ozrv10.com
> Hi Andrew
>
> Send me a note anytime. If I can help, I will. Here are the answers to
> your
> questions:
>
> 1. No. I have internal battery backups in the EFIS screens. I made a
> deliberate decision to eliminate any high power switches related to
> avionics
> etc.
>
> 2. I have 2 X AF4500's, and a center stack top to bottom (PMA8000B audio
> panel, Garmin GNS430 WAAS, Garmin SL30 NavCom, Garmin GTX 327 Txpndr,
> TruTrak RV10 autopilot)
>
> 3. See attached. I will take a few more and send later (after I put the
> panel back on).
>
> 4. My concern was that I did not want to install steam gauges / "normal"
> backups if at all possible. By having dual EFIS screens with battery
> backups
> and independent AHRS, I have complete redundancy. Although I have
> contemplated adding an Airspeed / Altimeter / T&B as backups, I didn't see
> the payback for the expense. I also have a Subaru engine that has added a
> few interesting twists. The engine is powered by two independent buses
> each
> with its own PC680 battery. The switches controlling the engine and
> related
> components are all lever lock mil-spec Honeywell - the best I could find.
> The buses also have their own circuit breakers (they are on the right side
> of the panel). Should the need arise, I can take both batteries off line
> so
> they are dedicated to the engine. I can also isolate the power to the
> engine
> (in the event of a fire etc). Effectively, the VP-X controls everything
> except the engine.
>
> 5. I purchased my cables from Tim at Approach Systems (Fast Stack). Given
> the cost, why would you want to build your own. Tim's cables have superb
> quality. Besides the potential for screwing up on home-grown cables is
> enormous. There are are a lot of pins to be mapped. Tim also provides very
> detailed info on the cables and how the pins are mapped. Seeing this, I
> can't imaging doing this on my own - I just wouldn't know where to start.
>
> 6. I started out with a VP-100. I considered a VP200 but realized that a)
> it
> duplicated much of what appears on my EFIS screens b) I didn't have the
> panel real estate. After I purchased the VP100, VP came out with the VP-X
> that integrated with the AFS EFIS. I talked to Marc at VP and he agreed to
> let me swap the -100 for the -X.
>
> I goggled the PAR100EX. It looks very nice. For my install I would still
> go
> with the PMA800B. I like the features including the cell phone interface /
> music interface etc. As well, I wanted a redundant NavComm. The PAR100EX
> doesn't have the Nav side. For IFR, I need two independent sources of
> navigation, The GNS430 WAAS is one, the SL30 is the other. That being
> said,
> I also have another non-TSO'd WAAS puck GPS receiver I plan to install.
>
> Something else you may not know. There is an AFS specific autopilot head
> made by TruTrak. It is very simple as the advanced features are controlled
> by the EFIS and not the AP head. I had originally ordered the TruTrak RV10
> AP but later changed to the AFS version of TruTrak and saved some $$$$.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
>
>
> _____
>
>
From: Andrew Long [mailto:along@aanet.com.au]
> Sent: December-11-11 2:36 AM
> To: kearney@shaw.ca
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
>
>
> Hi Les,
>
> Your stack is almost exactly the same as the configuration I am looking
> at.
> If I may ask some questions and keep in touch that would be great.
>
> 1. Do you have VP-X bypass switches allowing direct power to the various
> instruments?
> 2. What is the full configuration of your panel by component?
> 3. Do you have any pictures of the panel?
> 4. What were the areas of concern that you addressed in the selection?
> 5. Did you purchase all the cables and Hub from Approach Systems Fast
> Stack,
> or did you make some of your own cables?
> 6. Why the VP-X and not the VP-200?
>
> The stack I am looking at is as follows:
>
> *
>
> 2 x Advanced Flight Systems 5500 with GPS and backup batteries
> *
>
> Scorcerer RV-10 (Maybe AFS AP or Digitrack II)
>
>
>
> *
>
> Garmin GSN430 (Maybe a 430)
> *
>
> PAR100EX (Audio Panel/Coms combo)
> *
>
> GTX-327 (Transponder)
>
>
>
> *
>
> Vertical Power VP-200/400 or VP-X + harness
>
> I would like any opinions you could offer on my selection, and any
> learnings
> you have developed on your systems.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Regards,
> Andrew Long
> www.ozrv10.com
>
>> Hi
>>
>> This is one topic that I can add a bit of perspective. I have just
>> powered
>
>> up the avionics on my -10 that uses a VP-X integrated with am AFS 4500
>> EFIS
>> screens with the avionics backbone being provided by Approach Systems
>> Fast
>
>> Stack. No smoke and lots of pretty displays!
>>
>> All the wiring was done by me, myself and I. Although I have read
>> everything
>> on the VP-X etc, I was amazed at how simple the wiring was done. With
>> Tim
>> Hass's Fast Stack, I was left with wiring sensors, power lead, antennas
>> etc.
>> I started slowly as I was learning as I went but by the end I was pretty
>> confident as to how things would turn out. There is still a lot of work
>> involved in wiring - I was surprised about the amount of wire that goes
>> to
>
>> the tail.
>>
>> After seeing how the VP-X spins up on the EFIS, how easy it is to define
>> circuits and how they operate, how the number of high energy wires being
>> switched was reduced (all the VP-X switches are to ground), I can't
>> imagine
>> using a traditional bus bar for my avionics etc. It was beyond cool
>> watching
>> the avionics turn on, box by box, as I changed the VP-X configuration
>> settings on the EFIS.
>>
>> With any system, it is wise to think about failure modse. I my case, if
>> the
>> VP-X fails I need only replace the box. Even if this happened in flight,
>> my
>> EFIS screens have internal backup batteries so it shouldn't be a huge
>> issue.
>>
>> A final note, the support from Marc (VP) and Tim (Approach Systems) has
>> been
>> stellar. Both have been very helpful getting up a steep learning curve.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Les
>> #40643
>>
>> _____
>>
>>
>
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
>> Sent: December-10-11 2:41 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
>>
>>
>> I agree completely with this. I just finished wiring an airframe with a
>> VP-200. It took 2 days from start to finish. There is absolutely no way
>> I
>> could have done that the traditional way, with the bus bars, switches,
>> breakers, etc. The VP keeps it clean and makes it easy, as well as
>> giving
>> a
>> lot more information about a problem when you have it. In over 2,000
>> hours
>
>> flown on VP's that I have installed, I have had to send a total of one
>> unit
>> back to VP for repair, and have never had a completely dead unit. As
>> Robin
>
>> said, you can't lump quality equipment made by VP with
>> "nothing-but-headache" stuff from BM.
>>
>> Jesse Saint
>> Saint Aviation, Inc.
>> jesse@saintaviation.com
>> C: 352-427-0285
>> F: 815-377-3694
>>
>> On Dec 10, 2011, at 3:47 PM, Robin Marks wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't think you can lump VP and BMA in the same category. One is
>> exceptionally well thought out and tested system while the other is a
>> "let's
>> start selling it and then work on finishing the development over
>> promising
>
>> while under delivering. I don't own a VP because my -10 build was too
>> early
>> but it is an impressive system. I kick myself for not adding it to my 8A
>> build.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>> Robin
>> Do Not Archive
>>
>>
>
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
>> Ofdavidsoutpost@comcast.net
>> Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 12:29 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
>>
>> I could not agree more with Wayne. Yesterday I spent the day at my
>> buddies
>> cold (freezing) hanger to help trouble shoot electrical issues on the
>> Cozy
>
>> MKIV we built. He went with a Blue Mountain power board that has been
>> nothing but trouble,,,, and you really need to know that stuff when it
>> fails. And yes,,,,you are grounded until fixed. The last time it failed
>> it
>> took an electronic engineer from Visteon who is a good friend to fix it!
>> No
>> Thanks. Not bashing VP at all. Its just not for me.
>>
>> David Clifford
>>
>> RV-10 Builder
>> Howell, MI
>>
>>
>>
>> _____
>>
>>
>>
>
From: "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie@gmail.com>
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 3:00:44 PM
>> Subject: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Flap Positioner
>>
>>
>> I used the show planes from Vans like Jessie is selling. Good deal if
>> yoy
>> choose that route.
>>
>> When it breaks it will be pulled out with a std flap switch put in
>> place.
>> I
>> have the same problem as others with having to hit the down toggle
>> position
>> twice to go from 18 to 33 degrees flaps. Has to do with micro switches.
>> It
>
>> is just one more thing to go bad...more money/wire/weight.
>>
>> VP is a nice system unless it goes out then your grounded. I did not
>> have
>> the money for it anyway. I have learned with hvac systems that the more
>> circuit boards you put on something the more expensive it is to fix and
>> you
>> better know your stuff to fix it yourself. One reason I do not sell 16
>> seer+
>> hvac systems.
>>
>> --------
>> Wayne Gillispie, A&P 05/93 PP 10/08
>> Bldr# 40983SB Started 12/1/2009
>> N715WD Flying 12/1/2011. Paint 2012.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel |
I am flying the same configuration as Les except I have the AFS AP (TT with
different software). The Static and Pitot are plumbed into both EFIS units
and the AP. GPS receivers are also wired into both EFIS units and the AP
as well.
Holding the AP Engage button on the stick for 3 seconds gets you into AP
stand alone mode (heading and alt hold). Pressing the EFIS button on the
AP couples the EFIS and AP together to allow the Flight Director in the
EFIS to command the AP. Works very well.
Jim C
N312F 300+ hours
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel |
Hi Jim
My A/P is a TruTrak branded with the AFS logo. Is that different from yours.
Cheers
Les
Sent from my iPhone
On 2011-12-11, at 8:06 PM, Jim Combs <jiminlexky@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am flying the same configuration as Les except I have the AFS AP (TT wit
h different software). The Static and Pitot are plumbed into both EFIS unit
s and the AP. GPS receivers are also wired into both EFIS units and the AP a
s well.
>
> Holding the AP Engage button on the stick for 3 seconds gets you into AP s
tand alone mode (heading and alt hold). Pressing the EFIS button on the AP c
ouples the EFIS and AP together to allow the Flight Director in the EFIS to c
ommand the AP. Works very well.
>
> Jim C
> N312F 300+ hours
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel |
Hi Jim,
Does that AP have ILS/GPS RNAV approach capability
(i.e. with it navigate alt as well as heading?)
My want.... is
basically to have a 3-axis AP that can be managed independant of the EFIS
should it fail (shounds like this does)and can be coupled to a
ILS/GPS RNAV approach. Does this fit the bill? Sounds like it does, just
clarifying..... :-)
Regards,
Andrew Long
www.ozrv10.com
> I am flying the same configuration as
Les except I have the AFS AP (TT
> with
> different
software). The Static and Pitot are plumbed into both EFIS
>
units
> and the AP. GPS receivers are also wired into both EFIS
units and the AP
> as well.
>
> Holding the AP
Engage button on the stick for 3 seconds gets you into AP
> stand
alone mode (heading and alt hold). Pressing the EFIS button on the
> AP couples the EFIS and AP together to allow the Flight Director in
the
> EFIS to command the AP. Works very well.
>
> Jim C
> N312F 300+ hours
>
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel |
Neither the TruTrak, nor the Trio, will fly an ILS without coupling to an EFIS.
If you get them with the GPSS/GPSV options, they will fly an LPV approach without
an EFIS. They need the GPS signal, of course, to do this.
Your EFIS needs to have an ARINC interface to couple to them for the ILS.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360728#360728
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel |
Hi Bob,
But you can dial in altitude and heading and AP will
follow correct? Which means that it runs independantly. That is fine. I
would couple the Heading to the EFIS and the Garmin GPS with an ability to
uncouple as per your setup. Then I have an independant AP if all
else is lost that can manually be tuned in.
Do you know which
of the AP's from TruTrak and/OR AFS do this? Do they all?
Regards,
Andrew Long
www.ozrv10.com
> -->
RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner"
<bobturner@alum.rpi.edu>
>
> Neither the TruTrak,
nor the Trio, will fly an ILS without coupling to an
> EFIS.
> If you get them with the GPSS/GPSV options, they will fly an LPV
approach
> without an EFIS. They need the GPS signal, of course,
to do this.
>
> Your EFIS needs to have an ARINC
interface to couple to them for the ILS.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360728#360728
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
Contribution link below to find out more about
Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided
Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com
www.homebuilthelp.com
Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
you for your generous support!
List Admin.
>
>
Features Navigator to browse
as List Un/Subscription,
7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
available via the Web Forums!
http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
generous support!
--> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel |
Andrew
This manual show give you the info you want regarding the AFS ap.
http://www.trutrakap.com/documents/AFS%20Pilot%20Installation%20Manual.pdf
Cheers
Les
----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Long <along@aanet.com.au>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: AFS / VP-X / Fast Stack Based Panel
>
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> But you can dial in altitude and heading and AP will
> follow correct? Which means that it runs independantly. That is
> fine. I
> would couple the Heading to the EFIS and the Garmin GPS with an
> ability to
> uncouple as per your setup. Then I have an independant AP if all
> else is lost that can manually be tuned in.
>
> Do you know which
> of the AP's from TruTrak and/OR AFS do this? Do they all?
>
> Regards,
> Andrew Long
> www.ozrv10.com
>
> > -->
> <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu>
> >
> > Neither the TruTrak,
> nor the Trio, will fly an ILS without coupling to an
> > EFIS.
> > If you get them with the GPSS/GPSV options, they will fly an LPV
> approach
> > without an EFIS. They need the GPS signal, of course,
> to do this.
> >
> > Your EFIS needs to have an ARINC
> interface to couple to them for the ILS.
> >
> > --------
>
> > Bob Turner
> > RV-10 QB
> >
> >
> >
>
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> >
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360728#360728
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
> Contribution link below to find out more about
> Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided
>
> Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com
> www.homebuilthelp.com
> Site:
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> you for your generous support!
> List Admin.
> >
> >
> Features Navigator to browse
> as List Un/Subscription,
> 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> >
> >
> available via the Web Forums!
> http://forums.matronics.com
> >
> >
> generous support!
> --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Save a few bucks on headsets |
For those of you finishing up who need headsets, here is a money saving idea.
I just Bought a Bose QC-15 headset at the extra holiday savings deal of -10% or
$270. This is the headset that is sold to airline passengers, but there is an
add-on from UFlyMike, LLC that makes an after market mic for $225 + $7 shipping.
For $500 bucks total, you have a really cool and lightweight uber-noice-cancelling
headset. Plus the headset can still be used as a super nice headset
for music, air travel, etc.
There is no permanent mod to the headset, just plug in and go.
Might not fly as your primary headset, but sure makes for a great backup or co-pilot
headset. After flying in 152/172's with doggy D/C's my hearing is shot.
Whether you go this route or another, I cannot encourage you strongly enough to
get some good noise canceling headsets. Deafness only advantage is that you
can tell your wife that you didn't hear her !
--------
See you OSH '12
Q/B - flying 2 yrs.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360731#360731
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|