Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:30 AM - Re: FW: Window Glue (Les Kearney)
2. 09:09 AM - Re: FW: Window Glue (Carl Froehlich)
3. 12:18 PM - Re: FW: Window Glue (g.combs)
4. 12:22 PM - Re: FW: Window Glue (Dave Saylor)
5. 01:09 PM - Re: Window Glue (dmaib@me.com)
Message 1
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Hi Geoff
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! In fact that goes out to everyone on the
list.
I was wondering how you made out with your Lord adhesive supplier. Will this
be some we can buy from you in the new year?
Cheers
Les
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of g.combs
Sent: December-07-11 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
I am considering selling it to builders.
I will know here by the end of the week.
Geoff
Sent from my iPhone Geoff
On Dec 7, 2011, at 7:34 PM, Patrick Pulis <rv10free2fly@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
Geoff, I'm struggling to track down the Lord urethane adhesive here in South
Australia, could you please indicate if its retailed through a specific
agency or alternatively, would you consider supplying it to builders?
Regards
Patrick Pulis
Adelaide
South Australia
From: Geoff Combs <g.combs@aerosportmodeling.com>
Sent: Thursday, 8 December 2011 6:12 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
<mailto:g.combs@aerosportmodeling.com> g.combs@aerosportmodeling.com>
Lord says that a 50ml cartridge will do 4.5 feet at 1/4" bead. I would buy
the 200ML and get 2 of them.
200 ml will do 19 ft. Rear windows are about 6.5 feet circumference fronts a
little more. The Windshield
is about the same as the door windows.
Order 4 extra mixing tips. This is also good for gluing the canopy top to
the fuse at the door
Frame area.
Geoff
Geoff Combs
Aerosport
8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
614-834-8659p
614-834-5230f
-----Original Message-----
From: <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto: <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 12:04 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
--> < <mailto:rvbuilder@sausen.net> rvbuilder@sausen.net>
It's been a while and I only used it on the doors so far but I would
budget one kit for each side window and probably 2-3 for the windshield just
to be safe. Someone else may have a better recollection. I did the side
windows with Weldon and I was in such a rush that I forgot to put the
spacers in and had the windows much too low so now there is a transition
down to them. Really wish I had the Lord stuff for those.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto: <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
kearney@shaw.ca>
Michael
The post and the links are greatly appreciated.
For clarity, how many tubes are require each side, door and main window.
Cheers
Les
Sent from my iPhone
On 2011-12-06, at 8:47 PM, "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)"
< <mailto:rvbuilder@sausen.net> rvbuilder@sausen.net> wrote:
> Here is my original write-up that Kelley referred to......
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Sausen On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 10:30 AM
> To: ' <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com> rv10-list@matronics.com'
> Subject: Window Glue
>
> I thought I would share my experience with an alternative glue for
adhering the windows. Based on a recommendation from Geoff Combs, I picked
up some Lord 7545A/E urethane adhesive rather than using the Weldon 10 we
are all familiar with.
>
> I did follow the standard process with the rear windows and after that
experience, along with forgetting my shims in the rush, I thought I would
look into the alternatives. After not really finding anything definitive
from the existing alternatives like Sikaflex I basically resigned myself to
use Weldon for the doors. As I got within a couple weeks of doing the door
windows Geoff had mentioned to me that he used something else for the window
adhesive that was very much suited for the task and didn't have the quick
cure times and viscosity issues of Weldon. I had forgot about it until he
had a brief blurb in one of his post a couple weeks back. So I got more
details from him and found a distributor that I could get the 50ML two part
cartridge. The stuff is comparable in price to the Weldon at about $13 a
kit and each 50ML kit will do a window easily. There is an additional cost
in that you need a gun which is about $30 but it will work with any two
part, 1:1, gun pack!
aged product. Each pak also comes with a self mixing dispensing nozzle so
you just stick it in the gun, put the nozzle on, and squeeze. Extra tips
are less than a buck and if you don't use the whole cartridge you just chuck
the tip and put the cap back on.
>
> I'm sure many of you are saying that you've heard this before but this
stuff is GREAT! It looks and acts similar to the Weldon but you get upwards
of 30min working time and it doesn't even sag! This stuff is made
specifically as a structural adhesive for plastics so it seems to be an
excellent product for this application.
>
> Not wanting to completely trust what I read I decided to a little
non-scientific destructive testing. I didn't have a piece of scrap
fiberglass anymore but I did have plenty of scrap plexi from trimming the
windows so I took two pieces and glued an overlap of about 1.5x1.5 inch on
two pieces of scrap. Cure time for this stuff is about 24 hours but I let
it sit for about a week. This stuff doesn't get as rock hard as Weldon but
it isn't flexible either. I took the glued piece and put it in the vise on
its edge and tried to separate it in full edge shear (not really sure how to
describe it but was the most difficult way to break it) and the plexi broke
clear of the glue joint. I then turned it flat and tried to peel it apart
and again the plexi broke away from the glue joint. So far the glue joint
hasn't budged. I then took a hammer and beat the crap out of the remaining
square which was basically just the glued area. After several whacks with
the framing hammer I wa!
s finally able to get it to break into 3 pieces without ANY separation of
the glue joint. I've attached a few pictures below so you can see what I'm
talking about.
>
> Here is a link to the distributor I got it from. This page also has a
link to the gun you need and extra tips if you want them. Keep in mind each
pack comes with one tip too.
>
> <http://chemical-concepts.com/products.php?sid=192&limit=>
http://chemical-concepts.com/products.php?sid=192
<http://chemical-concepts.com/products.php?sid=192&limit=> &limit
>
> Here is a technical datasheet on 7545A:
>
> <http://www.glue4you.com/PDF/Lord7545_TN001.pdf>
http://www.glue4you.com/PDF/Lord7545_TN001.pdf
>
> Michael
>
>
> <CIMG2094.JPG>
> <CIMG2083.JPG>
> <CIMG2089.JPG>
> <CIMG2091.JPG>
> <CIMG2092.JPG>
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Message 2
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To add to the glue debate, two other products have worked well for RV-10
windows:
- Hysol (used on Lancair windows):
http://shop.lancair.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=9360-QT
<http://shop.lancair.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=9360-QT&CatId=%7b992B7B06-E0
1B-4918-BB0C-79343CDB7869%7d> &CatId={992B7B06-E01B-4918-BB0C-79343CDB7869}
- 3M Scotch-Weld:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/3mAdhesive2216.php
Both epoxies require 30 grit or so sanding to rough up the mating surfaces.
I used the Hysol on my 10, adding enough flox to thicken it. Keep clamped
for a couple of days. After the epoxy set, I filled in any void left around
the window joints (only a few spots) with micro-balloons, then sanded flush.
I added two bids of medium weight fiberglass over the glue joints, using
peel-ply. A fast sand then more balloons to feather in the windows.
I added the fiberglass over the joint as I saw many RV-10 with cracked paint
over glass to cabin top joint, as well adding strength to keep the window in
place.
I used black electrical tape to mask the inside and outside of the windows.
Add a good 1/8" or so bed of glue to avoid holidays. Add enough glue to the
window itself to make sure you get adhesion between the two parts when you
put the glass in place. You have plenty of working time to clean up any
excess that squeezes out. Don't go crazy with clamp pressure as you want
the glue to act to level out the glass/fiberglass mate (in other words,
clamp to get the window flush with the cabin top, don't over clamp and have
the glass below the cabin top).
For the front of the windshield I did the micro balloons to provide the
fillet per the plans. I then laid up about 4 bids of carbon fiber instead
of fiberglass as the plans call out. Micro on top of the carbon fiber and
sand.
I'm please with the results. If I ever do another one I think I'll just use
the standard West epoxy and flox as I will again add the fiberglass or
carbon over the joints.
Carl
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2011 10:27 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
Hi Geoff
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! In fact that goes out to everyone on the
list.
I was wondering how you made out with your Lord adhesive supplier. Will this
be some we can buy from you in the new year?
Cheers
Les
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of g.combs
Sent: December-07-11 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
I am considering selling it to builders.
I will know here by the end of the week.
Geoff
Sent from my iPhone Geoff
On Dec 7, 2011, at 7:34 PM, Patrick Pulis <rv10free2fly@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
Geoff, I'm struggling to track down the Lord urethane adhesive here in South
Australia, could you please indicate if its retailed through a specific
agency or alternatively, would you consider supplying it to builders?
Regards
Patrick Pulis
Adelaide
South Australia
From: Geoff Combs <g.combs@aerosportmodeling.com>
Sent: Thursday, 8 December 2011 6:12 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
<g.combs@aerosportmodeling.com>
Lord says that a 50ml cartridge will do 4.5 feet at 1/4" bead. I would buy
the 200ML and get 2 of them.
200 ml will do 19 ft. Rear windows are about 6.5 feet circumference fronts a
little more. The Windshield
is about the same as the door windows.
Order 4 extra mixing tips. This is also good for gluing the canopy top to
the fuse at the door
Frame area.
Geoff
Geoff Combs
Aerosport
8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
614-834-8659p
614-834-5230f
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 12:04 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
--> <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
It's been a while and I only used it on the doors so far but I would
budget one kit for each side window and probably 2-3 for the windshield just
to be safe. Someone else may have a better recollection. I did the side
windows with Weldon and I was in such a rush that I forgot to put the
spacers in and had the windows much too low so now there is a transition
down to them. Really wish I had the Lord stuff for those.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
Michael
The post and the links are greatly appreciated.
For clarity, how many tubes are require each side, door and main window.
Cheers
Les
Sent from my iPhone
On 2011-12-06, at 8:47 PM, "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)"
<rvbuilder@sausen.net> wrote:
> Here is my original write-up that Kelley referred to......
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Sausen On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 10:30 AM
> To: 'rv10-list@matronics.com'
> Subject: Window Glue
>
> I thought I would share my experience with an alternative glue for
adhering the windows. Based on a recommendation from Geoff Combs, I picked
up some Lord 7545A/E urethane adhesive rather than using the Weldon 10 we
are all familiar with.
>
> I did follow the standard process with the rear windows and after that
experience, along with forgetting my shims in the rush, I thought I would
look into the alternatives. After not really finding anything definitive
from the existing alternatives like Sikaflex I basically resigned myself to
use Weldon for the doors. As I got within a couple weeks of doing the door
windows Geoff had mentioned to me that he used something else for the window
adhesive that was very much suited for the task and didn't have the quick
cure times and viscosity issues of Weldon. I had forgot about it until he
had a brief blurb in one of his post a couple weeks back. So I got more
details from him and found a distributor that I could get the 50ML two part
cartridge. The stuff is comparable in price to the Weldon at about $13 a
kit and each 50ML kit will do a window easily. There is an additional cost
in that you need a gun which is about $30 but it will work with any two
part, 1:1, gun pack!
aged product. Each pak also comes with a self mixing dispensing nozzle so
you just stick it in the gun, put the nozzle on, and squeeze. Extra tips
are less than a buck and if you don't use the whole cartridge you just chuck
the tip and put the cap back on.
>
> I'm sure many of you are saying that you've heard this before but this
stuff is GREAT! It looks and acts similar to the Weldon but you get upwards
of 30min working time and it doesn't even sag! This stuff is made
specifically as a structural adhesive for plastics so it seems to be an
excellent product for this application.
>
> Not wanting to completely trust what I read I decided to a little
non-scientific destructive testing. I didn't have a piece of scrap
fiberglass anymore but I did have plenty of scrap plexi from trimming the
windows so I took two pieces and glued an overlap of about 1.5x1.5 inch on
two pieces of scrap. Cure time for this stuff is about 24 hours but I let
it sit for about a week. This stuff doesn't get as rock hard as Weldon but
it isn't flexible either. I took the glued piece and put it in the vise on
its edge and tried to separate it in full edge shear (not really sure how to
describe it but was the most difficult way to break it) and the plexi broke
clear of the glue joint. I then turned it flat and tried to peel it apart
and again the plexi broke away from the glue joint. So far the glue joint
hasn't budged. I then took a hammer and beat the crap out of the remaining
square which was basically just the glued area. After several whacks with
the framing hammer I wa!
s finally able to get it to break into 3 pieces without ANY separation of
the glue joint. I've attached a few pictures below so you can see what I'm
talking about.
>
> Here is a link to the distributor I got it from. This page also has a
link to the gun you need and extra tips if you want them. Keep in mind each
pack comes with one tip too.
>
> http://chemical-concepts.com/products.php?sid=192
<http://chemical-concepts.com/products.php?sid=192&limit=> &limit
>
> Here is a technical datasheet on 7545A:
>
> http://www.glue4you.com/PDF/Lord7545_TN001.pdf
>
> Michael
>
>
> <CIMG2094.JPG>
> <CIMG2083.JPG>
> <CIMG2089.JPG>
> <CIMG2091.JPG>
> <CIMG2092.JPG>
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: FW: Window Glue |
Yes it is. I will have stock on this within the
Week. I will also have the dispensing guns
Available for rent or to buy.
Geoff
Sent from my iPhone Geoff
On Dec 24, 2011, at 10:26 AM, "Les Kearney" <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
> Hi Geoff
>
> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! In fact that goes out to everyone on t
he list.
>
> I was wondering how you made out with your Lord adhesive supplier. Will th
is be some we can buy from you in the new year?
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@
matronics.com] On Behalf Of g.combs
> Sent: December-07-11 6:00 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
>
> I am considering selling it to builders.
> I will know here by the end of the week.
>
> Geoff
>
> Sent from my iPhone Geoff
>
>
> On Dec 7, 2011, at 7:34 PM, Patrick Pulis <rv10free2fly@yahoo.com.au> wrot
e:
>
>> Geoff, I'm struggling to track down the Lord urethane adhesive here in So
uth Australia, could you please indicate if its retailed through a specific a
gency or alternatively, would you consider supplying it to builders?
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Patrick Pulis
>> Adelaide
>> South Australia
>>
>> From: Geoff Combs <g.combs@aerosportmodeling.com>
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Thursday, 8 December 2011 6:12 AM
>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
>>
.com>
>>
>> Lord says that a 50ml cartridge will do 4.5 feet at 1/4" bead. I would bu
y
>> the 200ML and get 2 of them.
>> 200 ml will do 19 ft. Rear windows are about 6.5 feet circumference front
s a
>> little more. The Windshield
>> is about the same as the door windows.
>> Order 4 extra mixing tips. This is also good for gluing the canopy top to
>> the fuse at the door
>> Frame area.
>>
>> Geoff
>>
>>
>>
>> Geoff Combs
>> Aerosport
>> 8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
>> Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
>> 614-834-8659p
>> 614-834-5230f
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
>> (Michael Sausen)
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 12:04 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
>>
>> --> <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
>>
>> It's been a while and I only used it on the doors so far but I would
>> budget one kit for each side window and probably 2-3 for the windshield j
ust
>> to be safe. Someone else may have a better recollection. I did the side
>> windows with Weldon and I was in such a rush that I forgot to put the
>> spacers in and had the windows much too low so now there is a transition
>> down to them. Really wish I had the Lord stuff for those.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 10:31 AM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
>>
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> The post and the links are greatly appreciated.
>>
>> For clarity, how many tubes are require each side, door and main window.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Les
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On 2011-12-06, at 8:47 PM, "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)"
>> <rvbuilder@sausen.net> wrote:
>>
>> > Here is my original write-up that Kelley referred to......
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Michael Sausen On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
>> > Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 10:30 AM
>> > To: 'rv10-list@matronics.com'
>> > Subject: Window Glue
>> >
>> > I thought I would share my experience with an alternative glue for
>> adhering the windows. Based on a recommendation from Geoff Combs, I pick
ed
>> up some Lord 7545A/E urethane adhesive rather than using the Weldon 10 we
>> are all familiar with.
>> >
>> > I did follow the standard process with the rear windows and after that
>> experience, along with forgetting my shims in the rush, I thought I would
>> look into the alternatives. After not really finding anything definitive
>> from the existing alternatives like Sikaflex I basically resigned myself t
o
>> use Weldon for the doors. As I got within a couple weeks of doing the do
or
>> windows Geoff had mentioned to me that he used something else for the win
dow
>> adhesive that was very much suited for the task and didn't have the quick
>> cure times and viscosity issues of Weldon. I had forgot about it until h
e
>> had a brief blurb in one of his post a couple weeks back. So I got more
>> details from him and found a distributor that I could get the 50ML two pa
rt
>> cartridge. The stuff is comparable in price to the Weldon at about $13 a
>> kit and each 50ML kit will do a window easily. There is an additional co
st
>> in that you need a gun which is about $30 but it will work with any two
>> part, 1:1, gun pack!
>>
>> aged product. Each pak also comes with a self mixing dispensing nozzle s
o
>> you just stick it in the gun, put the nozzle on, and squeeze. Extra tips
>> are less than a buck and if you don't use the whole cartridge you just ch
uck
>> the tip and put the cap back on.
>> >
>> > I'm sure many of you are saying that you've heard this before but this
>> stuff is GREAT! It looks and acts similar to the Weldon but you get upwa
rds
>> of 30min working time and it doesn't even sag! This stuff is made
>> specifically as a structural adhesive for plastics so it seems to be an
>> excellent product for this application.
>> >
>> > Not wanting to completely trust what I read I decided to a little
>> non-scientific destructive testing. I didn't have a piece of scrap
>> fiberglass anymore but I did have plenty of scrap plexi from trimming the
>> windows so I took two pieces and glued an overlap of about 1.5x1.5 inch o
n
>> two pieces of scrap. Cure time for this stuff is about 24 hours but I le
t
>> it sit for about a week. This stuff doesn't get as rock hard as Weldon b
ut
>> it isn't flexible either. I took the glued piece and put it in the vise o
n
>> its edge and tried to separate it in full edge shear (not really sure how
to
>> describe it but was the most difficult way to break it) and the plexi bro
ke
>> clear of the glue joint. I then turned it flat and tried to peel it apar
t
>> and again the plexi broke away from the glue joint. So far the glue join
t
>> hasn't budged. I then took a hammer and beat the crap out of the remaini
ng
>> square which was basically just the glued area. After several whacks wit
h
>> the framing hammer I wa!
>>
>> s finally able to get it to break into 3 pieces without ANY separation of
>> the glue joint. I've attached a few pictures below so you can see what I
'm
>> talking about.
>> >
>> > Here is a link to the distributor I got it from. This page also has a
>> link to the gun you need and extra tips if you want them. Keep in mind e
ach
>> pack comes with one tip too.
>> >
>> > http://chemical-concepts.com/products.php?sid=192&limit
>> >
>> > Here is a technical datasheet on 7545A:
>> >
>> > http://www.glue4you.com/PDF/Lord7545_TN001.pdf
>> >
>> > Michael
>> >
>> >
>> > <CIMG2094.JPG>
>> > <CIMG2083.JPG>
>> > <CIMG2089.JPG>
>> > <CIMG2091.JPG>
>> > <CIMG2092.JPG>
>>
>>
>>
>> HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.bsp; --> http://www.matrobsp; -
Matt http://www.matronics.com/con===============
=
>>
>>
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: FW: Window Glue |
I used basically the same materials and techniques as Carl for my
windshield: Hysol and an overlay of fiberglass.
However, I've come to realize since then that possibly the only reason the
windshield stays put is the fact that it's mechanically locked into a
groove by the overlays. What I'm saying is that Hysol doesn't stick very
well to windows, even on Lancairs, which use an even more robust groove
(deeper and thicker material) to lock the windows in place.
So be careful if you choose to use Hysol on the windows. It's probably not
the best choice.
Search the archives for "Hysol & window" to see lots more.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 9:05 AM, Carl Froehlich
<carl.froehlich@verizon.net>wrote:
> To add to the glue debate, two other products have worked well for RV-10
> windows:****
>
> ** **
>
> **- **Hysol (used on Lancair windows):
> http://shop.lancair.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=9360-QT&CatId={992B7B0
6-E01B-4918-BB0C-79343CDB7869}
> ****
>
> **- **3M Scotch-Weld:
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/3mAdhesive2216.php****
>
> ** **
>
> Both epoxies require 30 grit or so sanding to rough up the mating
> surfaces. I used the Hysol on my 10, adding enough flox to thicken it.
> Keep clamped for a couple of days. After the epoxy set, I filled in any
> void left around the window joints (only a few spots) with micro-balloons
,
> then sanded flush. I added two bids of medium weight fiberglass over the
> glue joints, using peel-ply. A fast sand then more balloons to feather i
n
> the windows. ****
>
> ** **
>
> I added the fiberglass over the joint as I saw many RV-10 with cracked
> paint over glass to cabin top joint, as well adding strength to keep the
> window in place.****
>
> ** **
>
> I used black electrical tape to mask the inside and outside of the
> windows. Add a good 1/8=9D or so bed of glue to avoid holidays. A
dd enough
> glue to the window itself to make sure you get adhesion between the two
> parts when you put the glass in place. You have plenty of working time t
o
> clean up any excess that squeezes out. Don=99t go crazy with clamp
pressure
> as you want the glue to act to level out the glass/fiberglass mate (in
> other words, clamp to get the window flush with the cabin top, don
=99t over
> clamp and have the glass below the cabin top). ****
>
> ** **
>
> For the front of the windshield I did the micro balloons to provide the
> fillet per the plans. I then laid up about 4 bids of carbon fiber instea
d
> of fiberglass as the plans call out. Micro on top of the carbon fiber an
d
> sand.****
>
> ** **
>
> I=99m please with the results. If I ever do another one I think I
=99ll just
> use the standard West epoxy and flox as I will again add the fiberglass o
r
> carbon over the joints.****
>
> ** **
>
> Carl****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Les Kearney
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 24, 2011 10:27 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue****
>
> ** **
>
> Hi Geoff****
>
> ****
>
> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! In fact that goes out to everyone on
> the list.****
>
> ****
>
> I was wondering how you made out with your Lord adhesive supplier. Will
> this be some we can buy from you in the new year?****
>
> ****
>
> Cheers****
>
> ****
>
> Les****
>
> ****
>
> ** **
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *g.combs
> *Sent:* December-07-11 6:00 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue****
>
> I am considering selling it to builders.****
>
> I will know here by the end of the week.****
>
> ** **
>
> Geoff
>
> Sent from my iPhone Geoff ****
>
> ** **
>
>
> On Dec 7, 2011, at 7:34 PM, Patrick Pulis <rv10free2fly@yahoo.com.au>
> wrote:****
>
> Geoff, I'm struggling to track down the Lord urethane adhesive here in
> South Australia, could you please indicate if its retailed through a
> specific agency or alternatively, would you consider supplying it to
> builders?****
>
> ****
>
> Regards****
>
> ****
>
> Patrick Pulis****
>
> Adelaide****
>
> South Australia****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Geoff Combs <g.combs@aerosportmodeling.com>
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, 8 December 2011 6:12 AM
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
>
> g.combs@aerosportmodeling.com>
>
> Lord says that a 50ml cartridge will do 4.5 feet at 1/4" bead. I would bu
y
> the 200ML and get 2 of them.
> 200 ml will do 19 ft. Rear windows are about 6.5 feet circumference front
s
> a
> little more. The Windshield
> is about the same as the door windows.
> Order 4 extra mixing tips. This is also good for gluing the canopy top to
> the fuse at the door
> Frame area.
>
> Geoff
>
>
> Geoff Combs
> Aerosport
> 8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
> Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
> 614-834-8659p
> 614-834-5230f
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
> (Michael Sausen)
> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 12:04 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
>
> --> <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
>
> It's been a while and I only used it on the doors so far but I would
> budget one kit for each side window and probably 2-3 for the windshield
> just
> to be safe. Someone else may have a better recollection. I did the side
> windows with Weldon and I was in such a rush that I forgot to put the
> spacers in and had the windows much too low so now there is a transition
> down to them. Really wish I had the Lord stuff for those.
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 10:31 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
>
>
> Michael
>
> The post and the links are greatly appreciated.
>
> For clarity, how many tubes are require each side, door and main window.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 2011-12-06, at 8:47 PM, "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)"
> <rvbuilder@sausen.net> wrote:
>
> > Here is my original write-up that Kelley referred to......
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Michael Sausen On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
> > Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 10:30 AM
> > To: 'rv10-list@matronics.com'
> > Subject: Window Glue
> >
> > I thought I would share my experience with an alternative glue for
> adhering the windows. Based on a recommendation from Geoff Combs, I pick
ed
> up some Lord 7545A/E urethane adhesive rather than using the Weldon 10 we
> are all familiar with.
> >
> > I did follow the standard process with the rear windows and after that
> experience, along with forgetting my shims in the rush, I thought I would
> look into the alternatives. After not really finding anything definitive
> from the existing alternatives like Sikaflex I basically resigned myself
> to
> use Weldon for the doors. As I got within a couple weeks of doing the do
or
> windows Geoff had mentioned to me that he used something else for the
> window
> adhesive that was very much suited for the task and didn't have the quick
> cure times and viscosity issues of Weldon. I had forgot about it until h
e
> had a brief blurb in one of his post a couple weeks back. So I got more
> details from him and found a distributor that I could get the 50ML two pa
rt
> cartridge. The stuff is comparable in price to the Weldon at about $13 a
> kit and each 50ML kit will do a window easily. There is an additional co
st
> in that you need a gun which is about $30 but it will work with any two
> part, 1:1, gun pack!
>
> aged product. Each pak also comes with a self mixing dispensing nozzle s
o
> you just stick it in the gun, put the nozzle on, and squeeze. Extra tips
> are less than a buck and if you don't use the whole cartridge you just
> chuck
> the tip and put the cap back on.
> >
> > I'm sure many of you are saying that you've heard this before but this
> stuff is GREAT! It looks and acts similar to the Weldon but you get
> upwards
> of 30min working time and it doesn't even sag! This stuff is made
> specifically as a structural adhesive for plastics so it seems to be an
> excellent product for this application.
> >
> > Not wanting to completely trust what I read I decided to a little
> non-scientific destructive testing. I didn't have a piece of scrap
> fiberglass anymore but I did have plenty of scrap plexi from trimming the
> windows so I took two pieces and glued an overlap of about 1.5x1.5 inch o
n
> two pieces of scrap. Cure time for this stuff is about 24 hours but I le
t
> it sit for about a week. This stuff doesn't get as rock hard as Weldon b
ut
> it isn't flexible either. I took the glued piece and put it in the vise
on
> its edge and tried to separate it in full edge shear (not really sure how
> to
> describe it but was the most difficult way to break it) and the plexibrok
e
> clear of the glue joint. I then turned it flat and tried to peel it apar
t
> and again the plexi broke away from the glue joint. So far the glue join
t
> hasn't budged. I then took a hammer and beat the crap out of the remaini
ng
> square which was basically just the glued area. After several whacks wit
h
> the framing hammer I wa!
>
> s finally able to get it to break into 3 pieces without ANY separation of
> the glue joint. I've attached a few pictures below so you can see what I
'm
> talking about.
> >
> > Here is a link to the distributor I got it from. This page also has a
> link to the gun you need and extra tips if you want them. Keep in mind
> each
> pack comes with one tip too.
> >
> > http://chemical-concepts.com/products.php?sid=192&limit
> >
> > Here is a technical datasheet on 7545A:
> >
> > http://www.glue4you.com/PDF/Lord7545_TN001.pdf
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> > <CIMG2094.JPG>
> > <CIMG2083.JPG>
> > <CIMG2089.JPG>
> > <CIMG2091.JPG>
> > <CIMG2092.JPG>
>
>
> HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.bsp; --> http://www.matrobsp;
> -Matt http://www.matronics.com/con=============
===
>
>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>****
>
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Message 5
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[quote="dave.saylor.aircrafters(a"]I used basically the same materials and techniques
as Carl for my windshield: Hysol and an overlay of fiberglass.
However, I've come to realize since then that possibly the only reason the windshield
stays put is the fact that it's mechanically locked into a groove by the
overlays. What I'm saying is that Hysol doesn't stick very well to windows,
even on Lancairs, which use an even more robust groove (deeper and thicker material)
to lock the windows in place.
So be careful if you choose to use Hysol on the windows. It's probably not the
best choice.
Search the archives for "Hysol & window" to see lots more.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
--[/quote
I was one or two days away from using Hysol to install my windows back in 2008,
when someone on the forum (maybe Rob Hickman?) reported that one of his windows,
that had been installed with Hysol some time before, popped out when he accidentally
bumped it. I sold my Hysol to a local shop and reverted to the Weld-on
and had no problems.
One of the lessons that I had to learn more than one time during the build was:
If I was going to do something differently than how Van's recommended, it was
wise to think it through very carefully and do plenty of homework. Not to say
that Van's ways are always the best, but they are generally well proven. $.02
worth.
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
Transition Trainer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361626#361626
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