Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:05 AM - Speaking of Dynon Skyview... (egodfrey@ameritech.net)
2. 09:17 AM - Re: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration... (Bob Turner)
3. 09:52 AM - Re: Re: Dynon Skyview vs. GRT HX EFIS... (Tim Olson)
4. 11:11 AM - Re: RV7-List: Re: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration... (M. Marcotte)
5. 12:42 PM - Re: Speaking of Dynon Skyview... (Carl Froehlich)
6. 01:29 PM - Re: Speaking of Dynon Skyview... (Robin Marks)
7. 01:31 PM - Re: Speaking of Dynon Skyview... (egodfrey@ameritech.net)
8. 05:33 PM - Re: Speaking of Dynon Skyview... (Carl Froehlich)
9. 05:40 PM - Re: Speaking of Dynon Skyview... (Michael Kraus)
10. 06:14 PM - Re: Section 29 Help (rv10flyer)
11. 09:21 PM - Re: Speaking of Dynon Skyview... (Pascal)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Speaking of Dynon Skyview... |
Are any of you installing/flying with the 10" Skyviews? Am interested in
how the installation was positioned in the panel. I am looking at
installing two of 10" Skyviews and was wondering about the layout in
regards to the "center" radio stack along with the placement of fuses
and switches. Any pictures would certainly be appreciated.
Ed Godfrey
40717
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration... |
Matt,
I'd record the indicated airspeeds as well. Use an E-6B or equivalent to see if
the true airspeeds you calculate match the Dynon's. Maybe there's a software
error, or an input (temperature, altitude) error there.
Since the speeds look uniformly high, I would just note that a static line leak
inside the cabin will usually make the airspeeds read high. Try slightly pressurizing
the line with a balloon, see if it leaks.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362008#362008
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon Skyview vs. GRT HX EFIS... |
Bill Watson
"As Linn suggested, you have to practice if this stuff is going to help
rather than hurt. I'd suggest that if you don't practice, it's better
not to even think about it or perhaps even have it."
That's not a bad way to put it. Personally, I think having an EFIS
that can fly a coupled approach is something I would never want to
be without, now that I have it...and know how to use it. But, I like
flying IFR/IMC. I think though that we suffer from one thing in
our group....everyone wants to have a great IFR capable plane, and
be able to do cool coupled approaches, but not everyone in that group
wants to actually practice and become proficient in the operation of
their system. If you do not do this, you are only a statistic waiting
to happen when you launch into IMC. I think having the tools is
great, but, if you aren't going to dedicated flight hours and time
to being proficient, just do yourself and everyone else a favor and
don't fly in those conditions.
Personally, I feel that the hand flying of the approach, with the
equipment, is the simple part. If your primaries fail, that's when
folks are SOL. But, my feeling is that if you plan to use coupled
approaches, you're better off practicing and using them every
chance you get. I can hand fly with no problem. Sometimes I do,
just to make sure I still feel as relaxed. But where you're really
going to run into problems is when you don't hit the right button,
or activate the right mode, or follow the correct sequence of
operations...when loading or flying an approach. It doesn't matter
then if you're coupled, or not. If you're coupled, your plane is
going to do the same screwed up approach that you just messed up.
If you're not, you're going to quickly lose the ability to figure
out what the hell you just did, and you're going to become lost
for what to do next. Your path on the screen is going to be redrawn
in some manner that doesn't make sense, and you won't know if you
should continue down the slope, or follow the pretty pink line.
So my suggestion is to practice and fly coupled approaches nearly
95% of the time. The one thing you absolutely NEED to be able to
do with these FMS/EFIS systems is punch the buttons properly. Flying
coupled is a perfect way to learn these sequences because it gets
your attention when your plane veers off course. You quickly learn
what you need to do next time, and you practice, and practice, and
practice. For me, the killer was an unexpected hold, and how to
set it up. I thought I could do it all, but one day I got thrown
a hold and I forgot how to quickly set one into the plan. I
hand flew a sloppy oval to make do. But then I had to go practice
so I wouldn't kill myself and family next time it comes up.
Actually, to be honest, it's time I go practice that one again.
But, you NEED to be able to make your avionics draw the course
you want....and if you can do that, a coupled approach is probably
going to be your safest bet for a successful approach and landing.
It makes it relaxing, and everything just flows.
If you think for a minute that you can't trust the system,
or yourself, to draw and fly the approach, not only should you
NOT be flying IMC/IFR, but you shouldn't bother using those
features until you are well practiced...because you need that
same course guidance to fly it by hand. This ISN'T a matter
of hand flying vs. Coupling...this is a matter of EFIS/FMS
flying vs. being able to do the old needles. You may have
been fine hand flying some needles, but when you fly today's
approaches, not all of that stuff is the same anymore. Yes,
there are indicators to rely on, but GPS courses still only
do what you program them to do. You would be better off to
call ATC and turn and run and head for a nearby ILS and use
your backup CDI on your backup Nav/Com/GPS...something
you know...(or was that "knew"). It simply isn't the same
world when you plug all of this into an EFIS...so either
get and be proficient, or ignore it all and forget about IFR/IMC
altogether. There is no in-between, really.
...and, if someone tells me they wouldn't fly a coupled approach
in a system that is fully capable of coupled approaches, because
they can't trust the system....I'd seriously reconsider if I
could trust them in their airplane. Again, you need to punch
the same buttons either way, if you want the approach to be
successful. The AP just is a couple more buttons to get it to
sync properly.
Button currency is harder to obtain than hand-flying currency.
Also, our planes aren't invincible, so know when to go IFR,
and when to stay VFR. Regardless of the pilot's ability,
there are times when it will be best to fly your airplane
in one way or the other. Where I live, you can't go IFR all
the time...last night I had the chance to revisit that due
to icing potential. VFR was better.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: RV7-List: Re: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration... |
I think one can calculate from the GPS numbers that you had a 14 MPH
(approx) wind from the WNW and you were doing 182 TAS. Your IAS would
appear to be 12 MPH too high.
From: Matt Dralle
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 10:33 PM
rv7-list@matronics.com ; rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV7-List: Re: Dynon Skyview Airspeed Calibration...
At 07:39 PM 12/26/2011 Monday, you wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
I've been flying the new 10" Dynon Skyview in the RV-6 for a few weeks
now and it seems like the airspeed is reading maybe 10mph fast. The GS
always reads 10mph or more slower than the True airspeed, no matter
which way I fly with respect to the current wind. Looking through the
configuration options on the Skyview, I'm not seeing parameters to
calibrate the airspeed. If the airspeed were *slow* compared to the GS,
I could envision making adjustments to the Pitot tube to get it in
better alignment with slipstream. But *fast* is a head scratcher. If
there's no electronic configuration parameters to adjust, what do you
do? Are there Pitot line "attenuators" like for RF in coax? ;-)
Matt
Listers,
I went flying tonight in the RV-6 around sunset and took some airspeed
numbers flying the four points of the compass. I let each direction
normalize for about 2 minutes before taking the readings. I've still
got my little black-tape washer deals on the static ports that I
detailed in a previous email.
Do these numbers make any sense?
I set the altimeter to 30.15 (KLVK ATIS). I compared the Dynon altitude
with the Garmin 696 GPS altitude. The Dynon was high by 100 ft. I used
the Dynon altitude adjustment to set it to match the GPS (-100ft). The
readings above were after this adjustment.
-
Matt "Red Dawg" Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap...
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 48+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer
Mode
Message 5
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| Subject: | Speaking of Dynon Skyview... |
Ed,
I'm still wiring, but cleckoed the panel in to show what I did.
In the center top is Comm #1 (MicroAir). Below that is the Audio panel then
the GTN-650. The left round hole is standard airspeed indictor, the right
round hole is standard altimeter. The XDPR is located behind the panel
(Dynon unit). The GTN-650 requires a reinforced cutout on the next forward
bulkhead to fit. I added a hinge on the back of the GTN-650 that attaches
to the bottom of the bulkhead opening to support the unit. To take the
panel out you separate the connectors and pull the hinge pin.
The only 4 breakers on the panel are for the GTN-650 (2), the audio panel
and the MicroAir. These are the only power users that come out with the
panel. The power and ground come from separate left/right molex plugs. All
other breakers and switches are on the apron, along with the two heat
control cables, the air box alternate air cable and the oil cooler air
control cable. Interface connections to the stack are via D connectors.
Locations took awhile to figure out as you need to be mindful of
interference behind the panel.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
egodfrey@ameritech.net
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 12:03 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Speaking of Dynon Skyview...
<egodfrey@ameritech.net>
Are any of you installing/flying with the 10" Skyviews? Am interested in
how the installation was positioned in the panel. I am looking at
installing two of 10" Skyviews and was wondering about the layout in
regards to the "center" radio stack along with the placement of fuses
and switches. Any pictures would certainly be appreciated.
Ed Godfrey
40717
Message 6
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| Subject: | Speaking of Dynon Skyview... |
Ed,
As we were flying well before Geoff's panels were available we used the standard
Vans flat metal panel and did a little trimming of the reinforcement brackets
including adding some simple stiffeners to make up for the material removed.
If I were to build now I would install one of Geoff's panels in an Aurora, Oregon
minute. The CF panel is soooo nice and is a real upgrade to the metal unit
and is extra clean when considering the quadrant and center console options.
Robin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of egodfrey@ameritech.net
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 9:03 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Speaking of Dynon Skyview...
--> <egodfrey@ameritech.net>
Are any of you installing/flying with the 10" Skyviews? Am interested in how the
installation was positioned in the panel. I am looking at installing two of
10" Skyviews and was wondering about the layout in regards to the "center" radio
stack along with the placement of fuses and switches. Any pictures would certainly
be appreciated.
Ed Godfrey
40717
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Speaking of Dynon Skyview... |
Carl,
Your idea is along the lines that I was thinking. I was looking to
put the radio stack to the left of the center rib. What are you planning
on installing in your stack? I was planning on a PMA-6000B, a 430W and
an SL30. Also, what do you plan to install in the round holes in the
lower left and upper right? Are you using a separate auto pilot? I have
attached a picture of the beginning thoughts that I have.
Ed
On 12/30/2011 2:39 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
> Ed,
>
> I'm still wiring, but cleckoed the panel in to show what I did.
>
> In the center top is Comm #1 (MicroAir). Below that is the Audio panel then
> the GTN-650. The left round hole is standard airspeed indictor, the right
> round hole is standard altimeter. The XDPR is located behind the panel
> (Dynon unit). The GTN-650 requires a reinforced cutout on the next forward
> bulkhead to fit. I added a hinge on the back of the GTN-650 that attaches
> to the bottom of the bulkhead opening to support the unit. To take the
> panel out you separate the connectors and pull the hinge pin.
>
> The only 4 breakers on the panel are for the GTN-650 (2), the audio panel
> and the MicroAir. These are the only power users that come out with the
> panel. The power and ground come from separate left/right molex plugs. All
> other breakers and switches are on the apron, along with the two heat
> control cables, the air box alternate air cable and the oil cooler air
> control cable. Interface connections to the stack are via D connectors.
>
> Locations took awhile to figure out as you need to be mindful of
> interference behind the panel.
>
> Carl
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> egodfrey@ameritech.net
> Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 12:03 PM
> To: RV-10 List
> Subject: RV10-List: Speaking of Dynon Skyview...
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "egodfrey@ameritech.net"
> <egodfrey@ameritech.net>
>
> Are any of you installing/flying with the 10" Skyviews? Am interested in
> how the installation was positioned in the panel. I am looking at
> installing two of 10" Skyviews and was wondering about the layout in
> regards to the "center" radio stack along with the placement of fuses
> and switches. Any pictures would certainly be appreciated.
>
> Ed Godfrey
> 40717
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Speaking of Dynon Skyview... |
Ed,
I tried to do a fit with the radio stack left of the center rib, but I
really did not like how this forced the left Dynon display low on the panel.
That would leave both displays lower than desired or one low and one high -
weird looking. I also wanted a steam gauge airspeed indicator on my side of
the panel as I have never gotten use to using the EFIS airspeed indication
in my 8A for takeoffs and landings, and I wanted airspeed and altitude
backup to the Skyviews (even though the odds of both displays and both ADHRS
going out is remote - and each side has independent power).
The 430 can fit under the center rib with the PMA audio panel above it, and
you may have room for the SL-30 below the 430 depending on how tidy you are
with the wire bundles mounted to the bottom of the next forward bulkhead. I
mounted the audio panel as high as I could while still clearing the center
rib. I know others have modified the rib to gain clearance.
I have the SL-30 in my 8A and love it, but I have no need for a second
VOR/ILS receiver in the 10. I picked up the MicroAir from a builder that
never used it for a good price - and it is more than sufficient for a back
up transceiver. The compact size also elevated anymore bulkhead cuts. The
backup Nav to the 650 is of course the Skyview GPS.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
egodfrey@ameritech.net
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Speaking of Dynon Skyview...
Carl,
Your idea is along the lines that I was thinking. I was looking to put
the radio stack to the left of the center rib. What are you planning on
installing in your stack? I was planning on a PMA-6000B, a 430W and an SL30.
Also, what do you plan to install in the round holes in the lower left and
upper right? Are you using a separate auto pilot? I have attached a picture
of the beginning thoughts that I have.
Ed
On 12/30/2011 2:39 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
> Ed,
>
> I'm still wiring, but cleckoed the panel in to show what I did.
>
> In the center top is Comm #1 (MicroAir). Below that is the Audio
> panel then the GTN-650. The left round hole is standard airspeed
> indictor, the right round hole is standard altimeter. The XDPR is
> located behind the panel (Dynon unit). The GTN-650 requires a
> reinforced cutout on the next forward bulkhead to fit. I added a
> hinge on the back of the GTN-650 that attaches to the bottom of the
> bulkhead opening to support the unit. To take the panel out you separate
the connectors and pull the hinge pin.
>
> The only 4 breakers on the panel are for the GTN-650 (2), the audio
> panel and the MicroAir. These are the only power users that come out
> with the panel. The power and ground come from separate left/right
> molex plugs. All other breakers and switches are on the apron, along
> with the two heat control cables, the air box alternate air cable and
> the oil cooler air control cable. Interface connections to the stack are
via D connectors.
>
> Locations took awhile to figure out as you need to be mindful of
> interference behind the panel.
>
> Carl
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> egodfrey@ameritech.net
> Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 12:03 PM
> To: RV-10 List
> Subject: RV10-List: Speaking of Dynon Skyview...
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "egodfrey@ameritech.net"
> <egodfrey@ameritech.net>
>
> Are any of you installing/flying with the 10" Skyviews? Am interested
> in how the installation was positioned in the panel. I am looking at
> installing two of 10" Skyviews and was wondering about the layout in
> regards to the "center" radio stack along with the placement of fuses
> and switches. Any pictures would certainly be appreciated.
>
> Ed Godfrey
> 40717
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Speaking of Dynon Skyview... |
Here is what I did. If you have the PFD on the right 1/2 of the screen on t
he pilots side and the left 1/2 of the screen on the co-pilots side then it i
s right in front of each. I also squeezed in a radio stack and a Garmin 696
. I really like my layout....
Let me know if you have any questions or need more close-up pictures
-Mike Kraus
RV-10 40013, Flying
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 30, 2011, at 12:02 PM, "egodfrey@ameritech.net" <egodfrey@ameritech.n
et> wrote:
ech.net>
>
> Are any of you installing/flying with the 10" Skyviews? Am interested in h
ow the installation was positioned in the panel. I am looking at installing t
wo of 10" Skyviews and was wondering about the layout in regards to the "cen
ter" radio stack along with the placement of fuses and switches. Any picture
s would certainly be appreciated.
>
> Ed Godfrey
> 40717
>
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Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Section 29 Help |
I did every single section in order except wing installation. Van's has a reason
for putting them in a certain order. When I finished the last page I knew I
was done.
--------
Wayne Gillispie, A&P 05/93 PP 10/08
Bldr# 40983SB Started 12/1/2009
N715WD Flying 12/1/2011. Paint 2012.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362059#362059
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Speaking of Dynon Skyview... |
Got the VP-200 for safety reasons and pre-VPX era. You may not need it, and
that will free up that space for a IFR screen, if you wish. I will say that
the safety features that the VP uses for mode switches and engine alarms is
great!
Pascal
-----Original Message-----
From: egodfrey@ameritech.net
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 9:02 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Speaking of Dynon Skyview...
<egodfrey@ameritech.net>
Are any of you installing/flying with the 10" Skyviews? Am interested in
how the installation was positioned in the panel. I am looking at
installing two of 10" Skyviews and was wondering about the layout in
regards to the "center" radio stack along with the placement of fuses
and switches. Any pictures would certainly be appreciated.
Ed Godfrey
40717
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