Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:50 AM - Re: Re: Aero Sport Power no longer selling (I)O-540s? (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
2. 09:25 AM - Side-stick turbo 10? (EdKranz)
3. 09:56 AM - Re: Side-stick turbo 10? (Pascal)
4. 11:16 AM - Re: Re: Why do (I)O-540s cost so much? (Jesse Saint)
5. 11:48 AM - Re: Re: Why do (I)O-540s cost so much? (Kelly McMullen)
6. 03:24 PM - Sorry Guys My Email Has Been Hacked (Patrick Pulis)
7. 03:28 PM - Re: Any RV-10's in Hawaii Please? (Patrick Pulis)
8. 06:36 PM - Re: Re: Why do (I)O-540s cost so much? (John Cox)
9. 09:40 PM - Re: Side-stick turbo 10? (John Dunne)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Aero Sport Power no longer selling (I)O-540s? |
I resemble both of those remarks. :)
Michael
On Jan 22, 2012, at 7:12 PM, "n801bh@netzero.com<mailto:n801bh@netzero.com>
" <n801bh@netzero.com<mailto:n801bh@netzero.com>> wrote:
That is not a correct statement on the HP output of auto engines........ An
d the testing of V-8 auto engines are ALOT more demanding then what Lycomin
g and Continental are required to show the FAA for certification........
For example.... Taket a marine application... It is the same Chevy or Ford
basic engine used by Mercruiser, or Volvo, or lots of other boat engine
suppliers... The 'less then smart' owners of those boats powered by that mo
tor do minimal maintenance on them, put um in the water at the beginning o
f the season. hoop in, start the motor , don't let is warm up and run full
throttle all day,,, day after day, week after week, year after year... The
motor lives through all that abuse.........
You really want to see a motor tortured... Rent a U Haul or Ryder or any o
ther brand that rents
box trucks...... The idiots who rent them stuff them to the gills and most
often the box is overweight, they then fill it up with gas... hit the inter
state and hold it to the floor all day and night, turn the truck in and t
he next idiot rents it...... Rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat..... Those
motors consistantly make 200,000 miles of extreme abuse..... Just try that
with a Lycoming or Continental..... IMHO...
Ben
do not archive.
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com<http://www.haaspowerair.com>
---------- Original Message ----------
From: "jkreidler" <jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com<mailto:jason.kreidler@reg
albeloit.com>>
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Aero Sport Power no longer selling (I)O-540s?
m<mailto:jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com>>
DJ, when I visited Lycoming we had a conversation around how they test and
certify. It is very common for auto manufacturers to list peak HP instead
of listing continuous HP. It looks more impressive and in reality doesn't
matter for 99% of operation. Aside from the autobahn and a super speedway
it is very difficult to run a car at continuous power. This topic is a bit
near and dear to me as my day job is to engineer electric motors, understa
nding how the HP numbers were come by is important to me. With that said I
don't think Lycoming wants to see us run at 100% power continuously either
, but they have been tested that way, or so I was told.
Robin, I really don't understand where they get their pricing from, it is a
mazing! You are right the parameters do not make for an engine that costs
three times as much. That is kind of why I made the reference to the cost
per pound, ultimately that is what we are buying is processed raw material.
On the other hand if they were making money hand over fist there would na
turally be competition right? The real problem is that overall GA is shrin
king meaning Lycoming needs to make their money off from a smaller pool of
people, it is a downward spiral that if left unchecked will be fatal to wha
t we do.
--------
Jason Kreidler
4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
N44YH - Flying - #40617
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364514#364514
____________________________________________________________
53 Year Old Mom Looks 33
The Stunning Results of Her Wrinkle Trick Has Botox Doctors Worried
<http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3242/4f1caee51ddf329e9c6st05vuc>con
sumerproducts.com<http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3242/4f1caee51ddf3
29e9c6st05vuc>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Side-stick turbo 10? |
Has anyone seen the side-stick, turbo RV10 being sold in Brazil?
http://aerocentro.com.br/hot_turbo/
In the flash gallery at the bottom of that page, you can see a good interior shot
of a guy holding the side-stick. Looks to be about the same ergonomics as a
Cirrus or a Cessna 400.
I'd love to see how the linkage is set up, and I'd be curious about the stick forces...
Anyone speak Portuguese and want to give them a call?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364569#364569
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Side-stick turbo 10? |
good time to remind some about the Flutter that Ken commented on. He used a
Turbo RV-10 to demonstrate his point.
http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/hp_limts.pdf
Pascal
-----Original Message-----
From: EdKranz
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 9:23 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Side-stick turbo 10?
Has anyone seen the side-stick, turbo RV10 being sold in Brazil?
http://aerocentro.com.br/hot_turbo/
In the flash gallery at the bottom of that page, you can see a good interior
shot of a guy holding the side-stick. Looks to be about the same ergonomics
as a Cirrus or a Cessna 400.
I'd love to see how the linkage is set up, and I'd be curious about the
stick forces...
Anyone speak Portuguese and want to give them a call?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364569#364569
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Why do (I)O-540s cost so much? |
I was reading this thread with interest while I waited to read somebody making
the points that I think are the most important in the cost discussion. They might
not be in this order, in my opinion, but these are all huge contributing factors.
1. Cost of certification - this is a huge cost, which is why there aren't many
changes over the years. Look at the new 172's versus the 1970's models. Slight
differences to the same general airplane.
2. Economies of Scale - as mentioned, the porsche engine is probably produced in
quantities a lot higher than the IO-540.
3. Alternatives/Competition - the cost of the engine effects the cost of the vehicle.
If the Porsche engine cost was $45,000 instead of $12,000, then the car
would cost at least $33,000 more, so people would go elsewhere, because they
can. With the Lycoming, what alternatives are there? Continental, if anything,
depending on the airframe that it is mounted on. With this in mind, Lycoming
charges $45,000 because they can. Porsche doesn't because they can't.
4. Aircraft vs Automobile - Liability insurance is hugely higher for aircraft parts,
I am sure, than for automobiles. If the Lycoming stops making noise, people
very likely may die. If the Porsche stops making noise, people will have to
call a tow truck. If I was an insurance company, I know who I would charge more.
There are, I am sure, a lot of other factors in the pricing structure, but I think
the overall reason Lycoming charges so much is because they can, plain and
simple. Supply and demand.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Why do (I)O-540s cost so much? |
On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 12:12 PM, Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com>wrote:
> This is a rinse, repeat of the early 1970s when a Lycoming cylinder was
> more than double the cost of an overhauled cylinder. So folks did 3-5 TBO
> cycles on a cylinder until it couldn't be ground any further oversize and
> the head/cylinder joints began failing from fatigue. Enter Superior with
> new cylinder at maybe 15% premium over overhauled cylinder. Instantly
> Lycoming had to lower its price. Given that ECI and Superior have about 95%
> of the parts of an IO540 PMA approved, if the price is right, it doesn't
> take them much to offer at least an experimental version without incurring
> the liabilities. Especially if they replace the "kit" from Lycoming with
> their own kit that reputable shops can assemble.
>
Kelly
>
> There are, I am sure, a lot of other factors in the pricing structure, but
> I think the overall reason Lycoming charges so much is because they can,
> plain and simple. Supply and demand.
>
> do not archive
>
> Jesse Saint
> Saint Aviation, Inc.
> jesse@saintaviation.com
> C: 352-427-0285
> F: 815-377-3694
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Sorry Guys My Email Has Been Hacked |
I apologise to all of you who received spam from my email.- Rest assured
it wasn't my doing.=0A-=0ARegards=0A-=0APatrick Pulis
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Any RV-10's in Hawaii Please? |
I would love to meet up with any of you guys if you're in Hawaii during the
latter part of-March?=0A-=0ARegards=0A-=0APat=0A=0AFrom: Tim Olson <
Tim@myrv10.com>=0ATo: "rv10-list@matronics.com" <rv10-list@matronics.com>
=0ASent: Sunday, 22 January 2012 12:49 AM=0ASubject: Re: RV10-List: Any RV-
10's in Hawaii Please?=0A=0A=0AHey, I'll be going in April! -If you shoot
Patrick an email, maybe shoot me one too. -I do plan to fly when I'm the
re.=0ATim=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Jan 20, 2012, at 11:28 PM, Patrick Pulis <rv10free2
fly@yahoo.com.au> wrote:=0A=0A=0AI will be travelling to Hawaii during Marc
h (23 - 29) and would love to meet up with any RV-10 flyers there.=0A>-
=0A>I'd appreciate hearing from any RV-10 builders or owners who might be i
nterested in catching up with me whilst I'm there.- Please contact me off
line.=0A>-=0A>Warm regards from down under.=0A>-=0A>Patrick Pulis=0A>A
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Why do (I)O-540s cost so much? |
Astutely Accurate on all points.
On Jan 23, 2012 11:19 AM, "Jesse Saint" <jesse@saintaviation.com> wrote:
>
> I was reading this thread with interest while I waited to read somebody
> making the points that I think are the most important in the cost
> discussion. They might not be in this order, in my opinion, but these are
> all huge contributing factors.
>
> 1. Cost of certification - this is a huge cost, which is why there
> aren't many changes over the years. Look at the new 172's versus the 1970's
> models. Slight differences to the same general airplane.
>
> 2. Economies of Scale - as mentioned, the porsche engine is probably
> produced in quantities a lot higher than the IO-540.
>
> 3. Alternatives/Competition - the cost of the engine effects the cost
> of the vehicle. If the Porsche engine cost was $45,000 instead of $12,000,
> then the car would cost at least $33,000 more, so people would go
> elsewhere, because they can. With the Lycoming, what alternatives are
> there? Continental, if anything, depending on the airframe that it is
> mounted on. With this in mind, Lycoming charges $45,000 because they can.
> Porsche doesn't because they can't.
>
> 4. Aircraft vs Automobile - Liability insurance is hugely higher for
> aircraft parts, I am sure, than for automobiles. If the Lycoming stops
> making noise, people very likely may die. If the Porsche stops making
> noise, people will have to call a tow truck. If I was an insurance company,
> I know who I would charge more.
>
> There are, I am sure, a lot of other factors in the pricing structure, but
> I think the overall reason Lycoming charges so much is because they can,
> plain and simple. Supply and demand.
>
> do not archive
>
> Jesse Saint
> Saint Aviation, Inc.
> jesse@saintaviation.com
> C: 352-427-0285
> F: 815-377-3694
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Side-stick turbo 10? |
I'd worry if they are advertising an MT Propeller that actually is a
Hartzell......maybe the side stick is really a centre stick, only photo
shopped and what's with the "more silent?"
You cant can't get more than "silent"
There will be no "you will look visual and magnificence" for me ha!
John 40315
On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 3:52 AM, Pascal <rv10flyer@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> good time to remind some about the Flutter that Ken commented on. He used
> a Turbo RV-10 to demonstrate his point. http://www.vansaircraft.com/**
> pdf/hp_limts.pdf <http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/hp_limts.pdf>
>
> Pascal
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: EdKranz
> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 9:23 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Side-stick turbo 10?
>
>
>
> Has anyone seen the side-stick, turbo RV10 being sold in Brazil?
>
> http://aerocentro.com.br/hot_**turbo/<http://aerocentro.com.br/hot_turbo/>
>
> In the flash gallery at the bottom of that page, you can see a good
> interior shot of a guy holding the side-stick. Looks to be about the same
> ergonomics as a Cirrus or a Cessna 400.
>
> I'd love to see how the linkage is set up, and I'd be curious about the
> stick forces...
>
> Anyone speak Portuguese and want to give them a call?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/**viewtopic.php?p=364569#364569<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364569#364569>
>
>
--
*ACS Propeller*
John Dunne
Managing Director
www.acspropeller.com.au
Aviation Component Services (Qld) Pty Ltd.
T/A "ACS Propeller"
Archerfield Airport, Queensland Australia
PH: 61 7 3274 4500 FAX: 61 7 3274 4010
*
*
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