Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:35 AM - Re: new BP reward program (John Ferguson)
2. 06:40 AM - Re: Re: Helicoil kit for nose wheel - still in circulation? ()
3. 06:49 AM - Re: Re: Midwest Paint Shops ()
4. 07:02 AM - Re: new BP reward program (Rene)
5. 07:16 AM - Re: Re: Helicoil kit for nose wheel - still in circulation? (Rene)
6. 09:02 AM - Re: new BP reward program (DLM)
7. 09:55 AM - Re: new BP reward program (Kelly McMullen)
8. 12:08 PM - acronyms (Linn Walters)
9. 06:06 PM - Re: N541RV.....the grin continues (mvultaggio)
10. 07:11 PM - Re: Re: N541RV.....the grin continues (Robin Marks)
11. 07:52 PM - Re: Midwest Paint Shops (bill.peyton)
Message 1
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| Subject: | new BP reward program |
You know you guys should think yourselves very lucky, there you are
moaning about getting 3 or 5% discount on fuel @ $5 a gallon when the
rest of the world has to pay nearly 3 times your costs.
Fuel in the UK is around =C2=A32.1 per litre or =C2=A37.938 per US
Gallon($12.56) we get no discounts what so ever, we have landing fees
that can range between $15 an $45 (that=99s for every landing you
do) and you get charged typically $24 for an instrument approach.
One local airport to me charges you a landing fee if you do a =9D
touch and go=9D of $36 so just count yourself very lucky with what
you have and best of luck with your imminent user fees.
Wishing we had you prices and facilities!!
John
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal
Sent: 04 February 2012 02:28
Subject: Re: RV10-List: new BP reward program
They still advertise:
With your BP Visa Card, you can:
* Earn 5% rebates on all BP location purchases
* Earn 2% rebates on all eligible travel and dining purchases
* Earn 1% rebates on all other eligible purchases
Nice marketing and poor follow-through!
From: DLM <mailto:dlm34077@q.com>
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 5:27 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: new BP reward program
I have been getting 5% using a BP Visa card at BP FBOs; now they are
changing to limit rebate to 15 cents per gallon; I have been getting 25
cents plus on $5 100LL for at least a year.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: new BP reward program
Let=99s see I get 1-2% on my American Express towards gas, BP wont
give you squat unless you buy Amoco or BP (although Arco, a BP company
wont except the card) but 3% is well... 3%. I have not seen the fine
print but it does say =9C5% on fuel purchases=9D so I am
interested in the technicality that makes it less than 3%.. were did you
get the 3% from?
I have a application I was about to send off so this is great timing.
From: DLM <mailto:dlm34077@q.com>
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 3:33 PM
Subject: RV10-List: new BP reward program
They have secured first place in the =9CBaffle them with
BS=9D contest. The old program was straight forward percentages of
purchase; now they obfuscate the situation with cents per gallon. Plug
in some numbers and see that they are limiting the fuel purchase rebate
to fewer than 3% at today=99s prices whereas their old rate was
5%.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Helicoil kit for nose wheel - still in circulation? |
Hey Bill,
Send me your address and I'll forward it on to Russ in TX so he can send it
to you before it comes back to me. "Rental" fee for the kit is $5 payable
to me (mail me a check or through PayPal) and I can send you a couple of
bolts for $2 + postage. You are on your own for spacers/washers since each
pants are slightly different.
DWG? (Google says it might have something to do with CADS?) Guys, I'm
trying to pick up the acronyms, but since that's a new one on me, maybe
someone else can help you out. I'll be glad to talk you through it.
Later, - Lew
-----Original Message-----
From: bill.peyton
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 10:42 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Helicoil kit for nose wheel - still in circulation?
Lew,
I would like to make the mod to my front wheel and use your tools. I think
I understand what you are doing, but need to see a dwg. Also, you mentioned
you have a source the bolts and washers.
Thanks
Bill
--------
Bill Peyton
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365587#365587
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Midwest Paint Shops |
Hey Bill,
On this topic, I've been watching the price of painting with great interest
to see how badly I'm underpricing my labor. I'm currently finishing up an
RV-8A with yellow wings/tail feathers, silver metallic fuse, flat black
anti-glare between windshield and cowl, red cowl spinner wheel pants -- and
I'm doing ALL the fiberglass fitting fabrication prep (cowl, canopy,wheel
pants,air box, etc.), as well as aluminum prep priming.
Are these prices being posted covering all that, or just supplying/applying
the paint?
Later, - Lew
-----Original Message-----
From: bill.peyton
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 10:48 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Midwest Paint Shops
There is a great paint shop in Quincy Il at UIN. I have seen his work and
it is great. Price for RV-8 was 8K.
--------
Bill Peyton
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365588#365588
Message 4
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| Subject: | new BP reward program |
Thanks for the reminder. Sometimes I forget that I live in the best
place in the world.that is just my opinion, I may be bias.
As I sit here this morning, looking out the window at a beautiful day,
feeling sorry for myself because as of 1 Feb my medical has expired and
I cannot fly without a baby sitter on board..I am reminded of
how great it really is to live here in Utah and the USA. It is still
hard for me to believe that I built an airplane in my garage and that me
and the family can hop in it and go whenever we want. My daughter is
going to a dance competition in a couple of weeks, and she was whining
that she had to go in the car.the whole 4 hours instead of the
plane in 1. How we take for granted what we do have.
I am hoping the FAA will issue my medical here soon and I will have all
my freedom back.
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Ferguson
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 3:32 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: new BP reward program
You know you guys should think yourselves very lucky, there you are
moaning about getting 3 or 5% discount on fuel @ $5 a gallon when the
rest of the world has to pay nearly 3 times your costs.
Fuel in the UK is around =C2=A32.1 per litre or =C2=A37.938 per US
Gallon($12.56) we get no discounts what so ever, we have landing fees
that can range between $15 an $45 (that=99s for every landing you
do) and you get charged typically $24 for an instrument approach.
One local airport to me charges you a landing fee if you do a =9D
touch and go=9D of $36 so just count yourself very lucky with what
you have and best of luck with your imminent user fees.
Wishing we had you prices and facilities!!
John
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal
Sent: 04 February 2012 02:28
Subject: Re: RV10-List: new BP reward program
They still advertise:
With your BP Visa Card, you can:
* Earn 5% rebates on all BP location purchases
* Earn 2% rebates on all eligible travel and dining purchases
* Earn 1% rebates on all other eligible purchases
Nice marketing and poor follow-through!
From: DLM <mailto:dlm34077@q.com>
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 5:27 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: new BP reward program
I have been getting 5% using a BP Visa card at BP FBOs; now they are
changing to limit rebate to 15 cents per gallon; I have been getting 25
cents plus on $5 100LL for at least a year.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: new BP reward program
Let=99s see I get 1-2% on my American Express towards gas, BP wont
give you squat unless you buy Amoco or BP (although Arco, a BP company
wont except the card) but 3% is well... 3%. I have not seen the fine
print but it does say =9C5% on fuel purchases=9D so I am
interested in the technicality that makes it less than 3%.. were did you
get the 3% from?
I have a application I was about to send off so this is great timing.
From: DLM <mailto:dlm34077@q.com>
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 3:33 PM
Subject: RV10-List: new BP reward program
They have secured first place in the =9CBaffle them with
BS=9D contest. The old program was straight forward percentages of
purchase; now they obfuscate the situation with cents per gallon. Plug
in some numbers and see that they are limiting the fuel purchase rebate
to fewer than 3% at today=99s prices whereas their old rate was
5%.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Helicoil kit for nose wheel - still in circulation? |
DWG = drawing.....
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
lewgall@charter.net
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 7:34 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Helicoil kit for nose wheel - still in
circulation?
Hey Bill,
Send me your address and I'll forward it on to Russ in TX so he can send it
to you before it comes back to me. "Rental" fee for the kit is $5 payable
to me (mail me a check or through PayPal) and I can send you a couple of
bolts for $2 + postage. You are on your own for spacers/washers since each
pants are slightly different.
DWG? (Google says it might have something to do with CADS?) Guys, I'm
trying to pick up the acronyms, but since that's a new one on me, maybe
someone else can help you out. I'll be glad to talk you through it.
Later, - Lew
-----Original Message-----
From: bill.peyton
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 10:42 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Helicoil kit for nose wheel - still in circulation?
Lew,
I would like to make the mod to my front wheel and use your tools. I think
I understand what you are doing, but need to see a dwg. Also, you mentioned
you have a source the bolts and washers.
Thanks
Bill
--------
Bill Peyton
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365587#365587
Message 6
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| Subject: | new BP reward program |
At first I thought you were writing from the PRC but I see it is Europe.
The
reason the fuel prices there are so high is that the government wants
them
that way (very high taxes). Here, our government wants to make ours
higher
by both taxation and prevention of any exploration or drilling. We loan
money that we print to other countries so that they can drill for their
resources. We, the USA, haven=92t built a major petro project for at
least 50
years; the latest attempt was the cancellation of Canadian USA
pipeline.
If we don=92t change our politicians, we will find ourselves like the
nations
of Europe. After all Bin Laden=92s secret plan was to kill us with
bureaucracy
and now we have Homeland Security, TSA, etc.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Ferguson
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 3:32 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: new BP reward program
You know you guys should think yourselves very lucky, there you are
moaning
about getting 3 or 5% discount on fuel @ $5 a gallon when the rest of
the
world has to pay nearly 3 times your costs.
Fuel in the UK is around =A32.1 per litre or =A37.938 per US
Gallon($12.56) we
get no discounts what so ever, we have landing fees that can range
between
$15 an $45 (that=92s for every landing you do) and you get charged
typically
$24 for an instrument approach.
One local airport to me charges you a landing fee if you do a =94 touch
and
go=94 of $36 so just count yourself very lucky with what you have and
best of
luck with your imminent user fees.
Wishing we had you prices and facilities!!
John
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal
Sent: 04 February 2012 02:28
Subject: Re: RV10-List: new BP reward program
They still advertise:
With your BP Visa Card, you can:
* Earn 5% rebates on all BP location purchases
* Earn 2% rebates on all eligible travel and dining purchases
* Earn 1% rebates on all other eligible purchases
Nice marketing and poor follow-through!
From: DLM <mailto:dlm34077@q.com>
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 5:27 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: new BP reward program
I have been getting 5% using a BP Visa card at BP FBOs; now they are
changing to limit rebate to 15 cents per gallon; I have been getting 25
cents plus on $5 100LL for at least a year.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: new BP reward program
Let=92s see I get 1-2% on my American Express towards gas, BP wont give
you
squat unless you buy Amoco or BP (although Arco, a BP company wont
except
the card) but 3% is well... 3%. I have not seen the fine print but it
does
say =935% on fuel purchases=94 so I am interested in the technicality
that makes
it less than 3%.. were did you get the 3% from?
I have a application I was about to send off so this is great timing.
From: DLM <mailto:dlm34077@q.com>
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 3:33 PM
Subject: RV10-List: new BP reward program
They have secured first place in the =93Baffle them with BS=94 contest.
The old
program was straight forward percentages of purchase; now they obfuscate
the
situation with cents per gallon. Plug in some numbers and see that they
are
limiting the fuel purchase rebate to fewer than 3% at today=92s prices
whereas
their old rate was 5%.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: new BP reward program |
Achem......I didn't know we were going political here. Prudhoe Bay was
only 40 years ago and was kinda major. Bakken oil fields are right now
and will be bigger than Prudhoe. Exploration has almost zero impact on
pricing. World demand, speculation etc have far more effect, with only a
countries tax structure impacting the world wide commodity price. Oil is
sold based on its quality, minus transportation and any other costs
getting it to the end buyer. At least with the RV-10 you can control
consumption for most phases after takeoff with wide flexibility.
On 2/4/2012 9:54 AM, DLM wrote:
>
> At first I thought you were writing from the PRC but I see it is
> Europe. The reason the fuel prices there are so high is that the
> government wants them that way (very high taxes). Here, our government
> wants to make ours higher by both taxation and prevention of any
> exploration or drilling. We loan money that we print to other
> countries so that they can drill for their resources. We, the USA,
> havent built a major petro project for at least 50 years; the latest
> attempt was the cancellation of Canadian USA pipeline. If we dont
> change our politicians, we will find ourselves like the nations of
> Europe. After all Bin Ladens secret plan was to kill us with
> bureaucracy and now we have Homeland Security, TSA, etc.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:*owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John Ferguson
> *Sent:* Saturday, February 04, 2012 3:32 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: new BP reward program
>
> You know you guys should think yourselves very lucky, there you are
> moaning about getting 3 or 5% discount on fuel @ $5 a gallon when the
> rest of the world has to pay nearly 3 times your costs.
>
> Fuel in the UK is around 2.1 per litre or 7.938 per US
> Gallon($12.56) we get no discounts what so ever, we have landing fees
> that can range between $15 an $45 (thats for every landing you do)
> and you get charged typically $24 for an instrument approach.
>
> One local airport to me charges you a landing fee if you do a touch
> and go of $36 so just count yourself very lucky with what you have
> and best of luck with your imminent user fees.
>
> Wishing we had you prices and facilities!!
>
> John
>
> *From:*owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Pascal
> *Sent:* 04 February 2012 02:28
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: new BP reward program
>
> They still advertise:
>
> **With your BP Visa Card, you can: **
>
> * Earn**5%****rebates on all BP location purchases
> * Earn**2%****rebates on all eligible travel and dining purchases
> * Earn**1%****rebates on all other eligible purchases
>
> Nice marketing and poor follow-through!
>
> *From:*DLM <mailto:dlm34077@q.com>
>
> *Sent:*Friday, February 03, 2012 5:27 PM
>
> *To:*rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
>
> *Subject:*RE: RV10-List: new BP reward program
>
> I have been getting 5% using a BP Visa card at BP FBOs; now they are
> changing to limit rebate to 15 cents per gallon; I have been getting
> 25 cents plus on $5 100LL for at least a year.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:*owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Pascal
> *Sent:* Friday, February 03, 2012 5:58 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: new BP reward program
>
> Lets see I get 1-2% on my American Express towards gas, BP wont give
> you squat unless you buy Amoco or BP (although Arco, a BP company wont
> except the card) but 3% is well... 3%. I have not seen the fine print
> but it does say 5% on fuel purchases so I am interested in the
> technicality that makes it less than 3%.. were did you get the 3% from?
>
> I have a application I was about to send off so this is great timing.
>
> *From:*DLM <mailto:dlm34077@q.com>
>
> *Sent:*Friday, February 03, 2012 3:33 PM
>
> *To:*rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
>
> *Subject:*RV10-List: new BP reward program
>
> They have secured first place in the Baffle them with BS contest.
> The old program was straight forward percentages of purchase; now they
> obfuscate the situation with cents per gallon. Plug in some numbers
> and see that they are limiting the fuel purchase rebate to fewer than
> 3% at todays prices whereas their old rate was 5%.
>
> **
> **
> *href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
> *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
> *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
> **
> **
> * *
> * *
> * *
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
> * *
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
> * *
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> **
> * *
> * *
> *href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
> *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
> *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
> * *
> * *
> * *
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
> * *
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
> * *
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> * *
> * *
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
> *
>
>
> *
Message 8
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On 2/4/2012 10:10 AM, Rene wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Rene"<rene@felker.com>
>
> DWG = drawing.....
Which originated with Autocad, I believe, but most CAD (Computer Aided
Design) programs now read and export .DWG files.
Yeah, I know .... TMI. (too much information)
Sorry, couldn't resist. ;-) . (wink) .... He he!!!
Linn
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> lewgall@charter.net
> Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 7:34 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Helicoil kit for nose wheel - still in
> circulation?
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by:<lewgall@charter.net>
>
> Hey Bill,
>
> Send me your address and I'll forward it on to Russ in TX so he can send it
> to you before it comes back to me. "Rental" fee for the kit is $5 payable
> to me (mail me a check or through PayPal) and I can send you a couple of
> bolts for $2 + postage. You are on your own for spacers/washers since each
> pants are slightly different.
>
> DWG? (Google says it might have something to do with CADS?) Guys, I'm
> trying to pick up the acronyms, but since that's a new one on me, maybe
> someone else can help you out. I'll be glad to talk you through it.
>
> Later, - Lew
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bill.peyton
> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 10:42 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Helicoil kit for nose wheel - still in circulation?
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "bill.peyton"<peyton.b@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Lew,
> I would like to make the mod to my front wheel and use your tools. I think
> I understand what you are doing, but need to see a dwg. Also, you mentioned
> you have a source the bolts and washers.
> Thanks
> Bill
>
> --------
> Bill Peyton
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365587#365587
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: N541RV.....the grin continues |
I had the pleasure of meeting Bob today and seeing his beautiful airplane first
hand. Luckily, my home airport is within his fly off area. Fantastic aircraft
and super knowledgeable builder. Many Thanks...
Mark
Another Lurker on the list.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365642#365642
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: N541RV.....the grin continues |
Phone camera photos boys! We want to see builders next to their creations. And
Lurkers too.
Robin
Sent from my iPad2.
On Feb 4, 2012, at 6:16 PM, "mvultaggio" <mvultaggio@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I had the pleasure of meeting Bob today and seeing his beautiful airplane first
hand. Luckily, my home airport is within his fly off area. Fantastic aircraft
and super knowledgeable builder. Many Thanks...
>
> Mark
> Another Lurker on the list.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365642#365642
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Midwest Paint Shops |
Lew,
I think that the current rate for unpainted and more importantly, un-prepared RVs
seems to be $7K at the low end and $12K at the high end. I am planning on
painting my self with the help of my buddy who owns a body shop and paint booth
a few miles from my home. I expect the paint to cost at least $2500 to $3500.
Bill
--------
Bill Peyton
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365647#365647
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