Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:19 AM - Re: AP procedure (Alan Mekler MD)
2. 02:34 AM - Re: AOA installation in wings (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
3. 05:19 AM - Re: AP procedure (rv10flyer)
4. 06:49 AM - Re: AP procedure (Bill Watson)
5. 07:12 AM - Re: AP procedure (DLM)
6. 08:11 AM - Antenna locations (Ed Kranz)
7. 09:04 AM - Re: Antenna locations (Ralph E. Capen)
8. 09:24 AM - Re: Antenna locations (Seano)
9. 09:28 AM - Re: Antenna locations (Seano)
10. 10:17 AM - Re: Antenna locations (Carl Froehlich)
11. 12:24 PM - Re: Antenna locations (Kelly McMullen)
12. 01:00 PM - Re: Antenna locations (Bob Condrey)
13. 01:44 PM - Re: Antenna locations (Seano)
14. 01:55 PM - Re: Antenna locations (Ed Kranz)
15. 02:11 PM - Re: Antenna locations (Seano)
16. 02:17 PM - Re: Antenna locations (Carl Froehlich)
17. 02:30 PM - Re: Antenna locations (Bob Turner)
18. 02:38 PM - Re: AP procedure (Bob Turner)
19. 03:10 PM - Re: Re: Antenna locations (Jesse Saint)
20. 04:43 PM - SFO Trip This Week (fdombroski)
21. 09:00 PM - Re: Re: Antenna locations (Bill Watson)
22. 09:35 PM - LED tail light strobe (David Leikam)
23. 09:58 PM - Re: LED tail light strobe (Sean S. Blair)
24. 11:38 PM - Re: LED tail light strobe (woxofswa)
25. 11:41 PM - Clear Wing Walk (was LED tail light strobe) (Robin Marks)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: AP procedure |
I do the same. It takes less time then the adhrs .
Alan
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 27, 2012, at 9:03 PM, "DLM" <dlm34077@q.com> wrote:
> Shortly after start, I apply power to my TT VSGV. The words AP OFF show on
the screen. A friend indicated that he did not apply power to the TT until a
irborne; I suggested that was an unwise procedure because if inadvertently e
ncountering IMC (dark night, low clouds or dark night and unlighted terrain)
the AP can be used to maintain control of the aircraft. A touch of the roun
d black knob will automatically synchronize the aircraft to the current head
ing by leveling wings and maintaining pitch attitude i.e. rate of climb. The
TT AP has its own solid state pitch and roll sensors and the straight and l
evel sensors are set at power up, preferably on the ground. My TT is my thi
rd way to keep the clean side up and dirty side down, after the Cheltons and
the GRT Sport.
>
>
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: AOA installation in wings |
Bill,
I ran them through separate grommets in the nose ribs if I remember corre
ctly. I did that with these and with some other things. Should be picture
s in my Kitlog site if you want to have a look around. I'll see if i can f
ind specifics and send them later.
Michael
On Feb 27, 2012, at 6:42 PM, "Billy & Tami Britton" <william@gbta.net<mailt
o:william@gbta.net>> wrote:
On the third bay in from the wingtip on the spar there's a hole in the web.
I assume these are tooling holes. This will probably warrant a phone cal
l to Vans, but, does anybody have any thoughts (other than "don't mess with
the wing spar any more than you need to!!!") about enlarging that hole to
7/16 for a snap bushing? I'm looking for a route for the pressure lines on
my AOA. Aside from ordering a longer tubing length from AFS and running t
he tubing to the wingtip, then the full length of the wing through my condu
it, I cannot see any easier way. I do already have my outboard leading edg
es installed, so this will be fairly difficult anyway.
My only other thought is to just run both tubes through the hole and then g
ob proseal around them to keep them from rubbing.
Anybody have any other general suggestions about the wing install part of t
his??? Pictures??? Using the stock location suggested on the AFS site, doe
s anybody know how this will affect--if any--the install of the Duckworks l
eading edge landing lights in the same bay?
Thanks again for any help,
Bill
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: AP procedure |
Same for me. Toggle switch near ap. Startup all avionics with aux bat once plane
is pulled out. By the time I hop in grt and xm is all ready to go. In case something
goes wrong with me my wife knows how to hit the round knob too. She has
been learning alot on the last 5 flights with the family. I would not build
an RV without ap. In no time you are turning and then descending into a spiral
dive.
--------
Wayne Gillispie, A&P 05/93 PP 10/08
40983SB 12/1/2009-12/1/2011
N715WD 382nd Flying. TT= 31 hrs.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367429#367429
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: AP procedure |
I have the AP (and the GRTs) on a 2nd buss - not same as starter buss -
so they come on with power up and complete their initialization by the
time I've started the engine and thought about moving.
Makes no sense to apply power after liftoff unless one has some
unfounded fear about the AP 'taking over' inadvertently.
Bill
On 2/27/2012 9:03 PM, DLM wrote:
>
> Shortly after start, I apply power to my TT VSGV. The words AP OFF
> show on the screen. A friend indicated that he did not apply power to
> the TT until airborne; I suggested that was an unwise procedure
> because if inadvertently encountering IMC (dark night, low clouds or
> dark night and unlighted terrain) the AP can be used to maintain
> control of the aircraft. A touch of the round black knob will
> automatically synchronize the aircraft to the current heading by
> leveling wings and maintaining pitch attitude i.e. rate of climb. The
> TT AP has its own solid state pitch and roll sensors and the straight
> and level sensors are set at power up, preferably on the ground. My
> TT is my third way to keep the clean side up and dirty side down,
> after the Cheltons and the GRT Sport.
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 5
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Another thing I set was that the GRT is connected by its various power
inputs to the primary bus and essential bus. The AP is on the primary bus
only and the Cheltons are on the essential bus only.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Watson
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 7:47 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: AP procedure
I have the AP (and the GRTs) on a 2nd buss - not same as starter buss - so
they come on with power up and complete their initialization by the time
I've started the engine and thought about moving.
Makes no sense to apply power after liftoff unless one has some unfounded
fear about the AP 'taking over' inadvertently.
Bill
On 2/27/2012 9:03 PM, DLM wrote:
Shortly after start, I apply power to my TT VSGV. The words AP OFF show on
the screen. A friend indicated that he did not apply power to the TT until
airborne; I suggested that was an unwise procedure because if inadvertently
encountering IMC (dark night, low clouds or dark night and unlighted
terrain) the AP can be used to maintain control of the aircraft. A touch of
the round black knob will automatically synchronize the aircraft to the
current heading by leveling wings and maintaining pitch attitude i.e. rate
of climb. The TT AP has its own solid state pitch and roll sensors and the
straight and level sensors are set at power up, preferably on the ground.
My TT is my third way to keep the clean side up and dirty side down, after
the Cheltons and the GRT Sport.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Antenna locations |
I'm just getting ready to finish up the vertical stab, and I need to make a
decision about antenna locations... specifically the Nav antenna(s).
The options I've seen are:
- Whiskers on top of the VS (on the rib below the rudder)
- Whiskers below the VS
- Wingtip antenna
I'm leaning towards whiskers on top of the VS and a NAV2 in a wingtip, as
I'm worried about dogs and kids finding the antennas with their eyes (also
concerned about the COM antennas on the belly for the same reason, but
that's something to worry about further down the line).
My question is: is there a performance hit from mounting the whiskers on
top of the VS? Do you get any shadowing from the wings and body of the
plane? Also, which whiskers (with removable elements) are giving the best
performance for your buck?
Thanks!
Ed Kranz
41347
edandcolleen.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna locations |
Ed,
For my 6A, I got a set of Comant whiskers on top of my VS - inside the VS top cap.
I don't think they make that one any more.
No reception issues that I've experienced - I'm doing my IFR training in it and
having a blast!
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
>From: Ed Kranz <ed.kranz@gmail.com>
>Sent: Feb 28, 2012 11:10 AM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV10-List: Antenna locations
>
>I'm just getting ready to finish up the vertical stab, and I need to make a
>decision about antenna locations... specifically the Nav antenna(s).
>
>The options I've seen are:
>
> - Whiskers on top of the VS (on the rib below the rudder)
> - Whiskers below the VS
> - Wingtip antenna
>
>I'm leaning towards whiskers on top of the VS and a NAV2 in a wingtip, as
>I'm worried about dogs and kids finding the antennas with their eyes (also
>concerned about the COM antennas on the belly for the same reason, but
>that's something to worry about further down the line).
>
>My question is: is there a performance hit from mounting the whiskers on
>top of the VS? Do you get any shadowing from the wings and body of the
>plane? Also, which whiskers (with removable elements) are giving the best
>performance for your buck?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Ed Kranz
>41347
>edandcolleen.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna locations |
Mine is up top and out of the way. It would have been easier to mount
it earlier in construction but it worked out great. I made a nutplated
doubler to mount the CI-157P and used the 5/16 pneumatic airline to run
the coax up the nose of the vertical ribs. Best pic of it I found.
Apex is toward the nose.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Kranz
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:10 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Antenna locations
I'm just getting ready to finish up the vertical stab, and I need to
make a decision about antenna locations... specifically the Nav
antenna(s).
The options I've seen are:
a.. Whiskers on top of the VS (on the rib below the rudder)
b.. Whiskers below the VS
c.. Wingtip antenna
I'm leaning towards whiskers on top of the VS and a NAV2 in a wingtip,
as I'm worried about dogs and kids finding the antennas with their eyes
(also concerned about the COM antennas on the belly for the same reason,
but that's something to worry about further down the line).
My question is: is there a performance hit from mounting the whiskers
on top of the VS? Do you get any shadowing from the wings and body of
the plane? Also, which whiskers (with removable elements) are giving the
best performance for your buck?
Thanks!
Ed Kranz
41347
edandcolleen.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna locations |
BTW, I have the bob archer in the wingtip for my nav two. A lot of
discussion on the reception. My personal experience is roughly 20
miles. The cat whisker will pick up the signal twenty miles farther
than the bob archer.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Kranz
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:10 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Antenna locations
I'm just getting ready to finish up the vertical stab, and I need to
make a decision about antenna locations... specifically the Nav
antenna(s).
The options I've seen are:
a.. Whiskers on top of the VS (on the rib below the rudder)
b.. Whiskers below the VS
c.. Wingtip antenna
I'm leaning towards whiskers on top of the VS and a NAV2 in a wingtip,
as I'm worried about dogs and kids finding the antennas with their eyes
(also concerned about the COM antennas on the belly for the same reason,
but that's something to worry about further down the line).
My question is: is there a performance hit from mounting the whiskers
on top of the VS? Do you get any shadowing from the wings and body of
the plane? Also, which whiskers (with removable elements) are giving the
best performance for your buck?
Thanks!
Ed Kranz
41347
edandcolleen.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna locations |
Ed,
You are touching on an area close to "primers" as to strong opinions.
Here is what I'm doing:
- VOR antenna; home brew wingtip similar in design to the Bob Archer design,
but dimensions changed to take advantage of the larger wingtip dimensions.
I did this on my 8A and consistently get VOR reception at 40+ miles, and IL
S/LOC reception way beyond useful range.
- On the eyeball hazard I share your concerns. I have two bent whip antenna
on the bottom of the10. First thing after it goes back in the hangar I put
a hose (with the end capped) over each one. I don't want my dogs to jam th
e antenna tips into their eyes - and I also found it a great safety step to p
reserve my vision when cleaning the belly.
- You mentioned "Nav 2". If you are striving for bang for the buck, perhaps
you consider not having a second VOR receiver. I find the SL-30 in the 8A p
rovides the "cross bearing to a second VOR" function well using the primary/
secondary VOR feature. If you really need a second VOR, the a single antenn
a with a splitter works (for all practical purposes) as well as two antennas
.
Carl
On Feb 28, 2012, at 12:27 PM, "Seano" <sean@braunandco.com> wrote:
> BTW, I have the bob archer in the wingtip for my nav two. A lot of discus
sion on the reception. My personal experience is roughly 20 miles. The cat
whisker will pick up the signal twenty miles farther than the bob archer.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ed Kranz
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:10 AM
> Subject: RV10-List: Antenna locations
>
> I'm just getting ready to finish up the vertical stab, and I need to make a
decision about antenna locations... specifically the Nav antenna(s).
>
> The options I've seen are:
> Whiskers on top of the VS (on the rib below the rudder)
> Whiskers below the VS
> Wingtip antenna
> I'm leaning towards whiskers on top of the VS and a NAV2 in a wingtip, as I
'm worried about dogs and kids finding the antennas with their eyes (also co
ncerned about the COM antennas on the belly for the same reason, but that's
something to worry about further down the line).
>
> My question is: is there a performance hit from mounting the whiskers on t
op of the VS? Do you get any shadowing from the wings and body of the plane?
Also, which whiskers (with removable elements) are giving the best performa
nce for your buck?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Ed Kranz
> 41347
> edandcolleen.com
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
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>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna locations |
I don't think finishing the vertical stab is the time to decide on that
antenna. I just closed off the fiberglass tip with Clickbond #4
nutplates and #4 flush screws instead of rivets, so I can get in there
if I ever decide I want something there. Yes, it adds about $20 to
overall cost, but to me that is easier than having to drill out rivets
if the need arises.
I'd be interested in what changes were made to the Bob Archer design to
improve the range. If 40+ mile range is possible, I'd much rather have
antenna in wingtip. OTOH, on other planes I have gotten 100+ mile range
at 10K cruising alt on H class VORs.
On 2/28/2012 11:14 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
> Ed,
>
> You are touching on an area close to "primers" as to strong opinions.
>
> Here is what I'm doing:
> - VOR antenna; home brew wingtip similar in design to the Bob Archer
> design, but dimensions changed to take advantage of the larger wingtip
> dimensions. I did this on my 8A and consistently get VOR reception at
> 40+ miles, and ILS/LOC reception way beyond useful range.
> - On the eyeball hazard I share your concerns. I have two bent whip
> antenna on the bottom of the10. First thing after it goes back in the
> hangar I put a hose (with the end capped) over each one. I don't want
> my dogs to jam the antenna tips into their eyes - and I also found it
> a great safety step to preserve my vision when cleaning the belly.
> - You mentioned "Nav 2". If you are striving for bang for the buck,
> perhaps you consider not having a second VOR receiver. I find the
> SL-30 in the 8A provides the "cross bearing to a second VOR" function
> well using the primary/secondary VOR feature. If you really need a
> second VOR, the a single antenna with a splitter works (for all
> practical purposes) as well as two antennas.
>
> Carl
>
>
> On Feb 28, 2012, at 12:27 PM, "Seano" <sean@braunandco.com
> <mailto:sean@braunandco.com>> wrote:
>
>> BTW, I have the bob archer in the wingtip for my nav two. A lot of
>> discussion on the reception. My personal experience is roughly 20
>> miles. The cat whisker will pick up the signal twenty miles farther
>> than the bob archer.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Ed Kranz <mailto:ed.kranz@gmail.com>
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:10 AM
>> *Subject:* RV10-List: Antenna locations
>>
>> I'm just getting ready to finish up the vertical stab, and I need
>> to make a decision about antenna locations... specifically the
>> Nav antenna(s).
>>
>> The options I've seen are:
>>
>> * Whiskers on top of the VS (on the rib below the rudder)
>> * Whiskers below the VS
>> * Wingtip antenna
>>
>> I'm leaning towards whiskers on top of the VS and a NAV2 in a
>> wingtip, as I'm worried about dogs and kids finding the antennas
>> with their eyes (also concerned about the COM antennas on the
>> belly for the same reason, but that's something to worry about
>> further down the line).
>>
>> My question is: is there a performance hit from mounting the
>> whiskers on top of the VS? Do you get any shadowing from the
>> wings and body of the plane? Also, which whiskers (with removable
>> elements) are giving the best performance for your buck?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Ed Kranz
>> 41347
>> edandcolleen.com <http://edandcolleen.com>
>>
>> *
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>> ==================================
>> ://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> ==================================
>> cs.com
>> ==================================
>> matronics.com/contribution
>> ==================================
>>
>> *
> *
>
>
> *
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna locations |
Kelly,
I don't think he changed the design, it's more that the performance is
extremely sensitive to installation. Grounding using the wingtip attach
nutplates (not a wire or strap), routing of other wiring along the edge,
etc. In fact, I exchanged emails with Bob A. when I did my install in the
first -10. I was concerned about the heat protective foil from the halogen
landing light kit - he said to make the antenna as close as possible to the
foil without touching it. I had one of his antennas in each wingtip (and a
GS antenna along with it in one tip) and they worked great. I'd routinely
see 50+ miles when I was actually checking distance. I've also heard of
really poor performance but without seeing the install hard to say why.
FWIW, he will readily admit that his wingtip comm antenna is a poor
performer because of the signal polarization.
Bob
On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
>
> I don't think finishing the vertical stab is the time to decide on that
> antenna. I just closed off the fiberglass tip with Clickbond #4 nutplates
> and #4 flush screws instead of rivets, so I can get in there if I ever
> decide I want something there. Yes, it adds about $20 to overall cost, but
> to me that is easier than having to drill out rivets if the need arises.
> *I'd be interested in what changes were made to the Bob Archer design to
> improve the range. If 40+ mile range is possible,* I'd much rather have
> antenna in wingtip. OTOH, on other planes I have gotten 100+ mile range at
> 10K cruising alt on H class VORs.
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna locations |
My post made it look like I only got 20 miles of reception when I meant
20 miles is the difference between my Bob Archer and my cat whiskers.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Condrey
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Antenna locations
Kelly,
I don't think he changed the design, it's more that the performance is
extremely sensitive to installation. Grounding using the wingtip attach
nutplates (not a wire or strap), routing of other wiring along the edge,
etc. In fact, I exchanged emails with Bob A. when I did my install in
the first -10. I was concerned about the heat protective foil from the
halogen landing light kit - he said to make the antenna as close as
possible to the foil without touching it. I had one of his antennas in
each wingtip (and a GS antenna along with it in one tip) and they worked
great. I'd routinely see 50+ miles when I was actually checking
distance. I've also heard of really poor performance but without seeing
the install hard to say why. FWIW, he will readily admit that his
wingtip comm antenna is a poor performer because of the signal
polarization.
Bob
On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
wrote:
<kellym@aviating.com>
I don't think finishing the vertical stab is the time to decide on
that antenna. I just closed off the fiberglass tip with Clickbond #4
nutplates and #4 flush screws instead of rivets, so I can get in there
if I ever decide I want something there. Yes, it adds about $20 to
overall cost, but to me that is easier than having to drill out rivets
if the need arises.
I'd be interested in what changes were made to the Bob Archer design
to improve the range. If 40+ mile range is possible, I'd much rather
have antenna in wingtip. OTOH, on other planes I have gotten 100+ mile
range at 10K cruising alt on H class VORs.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna locations |
Having flown with both, do you think you'd be comfortable with just the Bob
Archer? Do you use it for GS as well as VOR/LOC?
On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 3:43 PM, Seano <sean@braunandco.com> wrote:
> **
> My post made it look like I only got 20 miles of reception when I meant 20
> miles is the difference between my Bob Archer and my cat whiskers.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Bob Condrey <condreyb@gmail.com>
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 28, 2012 1:59 PM
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Antenna locations
>
> Kelly,
>
> I don't think he changed the design, it's more that the performance is
> extremely sensitive to installation. Grounding using the wingtip attach
> nutplates (not a wire or strap), routing of other wiring along the edge,
> etc. In fact, I exchanged emails with Bob A. when I did my install in the
> first -10. I was concerned about the heat protective foil from the halogen
> landing light kit - he said to make the antenna as close as possible to the
> foil without touching it. I had one of his antennas in each wingtip (and a
> GS antenna along with it in one tip) and they worked great. I'd routinely
> see 50+ miles when I was actually checking distance. I've also heard of
> really poor performance but without seeing the install hard to say why.
> FWIW, he will readily admit that his wingtip comm antenna is a poor
> performer because of the signal polarization.
>
> Bob
>
> On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>wrote:
>
>>
>> I don't think finishing the vertical stab is the time to decide on that
>> antenna. I just closed off the fiberglass tip with Clickbond #4 nutplates
>> and #4 flush screws instead of rivets, so I can get in there if I ever
>> decide I want something there. Yes, it adds about $20 to overall cost, but
>> to me that is easier than having to drill out rivets if the need arises.
>> *I'd be interested in what changes were made to the Bob Archer design to
>> improve the range. If 40+ mile range is possible,* I'd much rather have
>> antenna in wingtip. OTOH, on other planes I have gotten 100+ mile range at
>> 10K cruising alt on H class VORs.
>>
>> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna locations |
Personally, no. I would only install the cat whiskers if I only had one
NAV. I use the CI-157P for GS/VOR/LOC and it is ran to the 430W (nav 1)
with a Diplexer since the 430w needs the NAV/LOC separate from the
GS.(see link below). The Bob Archer is ran to my SL-30 nav portion. I
thought the cat whiskers were easier to install and it gets a better
signal.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/coupler507.php
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Kranz
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Antenna locations
Having flown with both, do you think you'd be comfortable with just
the Bob Archer? Do you use it for GS as well as VOR/LOC?
On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 3:43 PM, Seano <sean@braunandco.com> wrote:
My post made it look like I only got 20 miles of reception when I
meant 20 miles is the difference between my Bob Archer and my cat
whiskers.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Condrey
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Antenna locations
Kelly,
I don't think he changed the design, it's more that the
performance is extremely sensitive to installation. Grounding using the
wingtip attach nutplates (not a wire or strap), routing of other wiring
along the edge, etc. In fact, I exchanged emails with Bob A. when I did
my install in the first -10. I was concerned about the heat protective
foil from the halogen landing light kit - he said to make the antenna as
close as possible to the foil without touching it. I had one of his
antennas in each wingtip (and a GS antenna along with it in one tip) and
they worked great. I'd routinely see 50+ miles when I was actually
checking distance. I've also heard of really poor performance but
without seeing the install hard to say why. FWIW, he will readily admit
that his wingtip comm antenna is a poor performer because of the signal
polarization.
Bob
On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Kelly McMullen
<kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
<kellym@aviating.com>
I don't think finishing the vertical stab is the time to decide
on that antenna. I just closed off the fiberglass tip with Clickbond #4
nutplates and #4 flush screws instead of rivets, so I can get in there
if I ever decide I want something there. Yes, it adds about $20 to
overall cost, but to me that is easier than having to drill out rivets
if the need arises.
I'd be interested in what changes were made to the Bob Archer
design to improve the range. If 40+ mile range is possible, I'd much
rather have antenna in wingtip. OTOH, on other planes I have gotten 100+
mile range at 10K cruising alt on H class VORs.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna locations |
I did modify the design slightly when I made the antenna (a few pieces of sc
rap aluminum, some hardware and a piece of bakelite or fiberglass to make th
e gama match). I did a hard mount (piece of .032 angle) to the outboard win
g rib such that the antenna stays on the plane when you pull the wing tip of
f. This solves the grounding issues. I also extended the piece that angles
away from the rib such that the piece that runs parallel to the rib is tuck
ed all the way into the outboard edge of the wingtip. This is a quarter wav
elength antenna - which means the part that does most of the work (the high c
urrent part) is close to the base. The end of the antenna (the high voltage
part) provides the electrical length to resonate the antenna at the desired
frequency. This is why bent whip antennas work as well as they do. The pa
rt near the base is mostly vertical (communications are vertically polarized
, VORs are horizontally polarized). I use the one antenna for both VOR and G
S reception.
As with all antennas, the performance is only as good as the tuning. I used
an MFJ antenna analyzer to adjust the gama match and the overall length to r
esonance. Most amateur radio operators have one of these analyzers and for a
quick hop will most likely just make the antenna for you.
Someplace I have an old AeroElectric book that provides details for the ante
nna.
Carl
On Feb 28, 2012, at 3:59 PM, Bob Condrey <condreyb@gmail.com> wrote:
> Kelly,
>
> I don't think he changed the design, it's more that the performance is ext
remely sensitive to installation. Grounding using the wingtip attach nutpla
tes (not a wire or strap), routing of other wiring along the edge, etc. In f
act, I exchanged emails with Bob A. when I did my install in the first -10.
I was concerned about the heat protective foil from the halogen landing lig
ht kit - he said to make the antenna as close as possible to the foil withou
t touching it. I had one of his antennas in each wingtip (and a GS antenna a
long with it in one tip) and they worked great. I'd routinely see 50+ miles
when I was actually checking distance. I've also heard of really poor perf
ormance but without seeing the install hard to say why. FWIW, he will readi
ly admit that his wingtip comm antenna is a poor performer because of the si
gnal polarization.
>
> Bob
>
> On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrot
e:
>
> I don't think finishing the vertical stab is the time to decide on that an
tenna. I just closed off the fiberglass tip with Clickbond #4 nutplates and #
4 flush screws instead of rivets, so I can get in there if I ever decide I w
ant something there. Yes, it adds about $20 to overall cost, but to me that i
s easier than having to drill out rivets if the need arises.
> I'd be interested in what changes were made to the Bob Archer design to im
prove the range. If 40+ mile range is possible, I'd much rather have antenna
in wingtip. OTOH, on other planes I have gotten 100+ mile range at 10K crui
sing alt on H class VORs.
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna locations |
I have a single Archer in the right wing tip, running to an SL-30, as my only VOR.
(As another poster mentioned, if you need to save money, I'd drop the #2 VOR
- assuming you have a GPS backup). I easily pick up good signals at 50 miles
@ 5000', except if the station is 90 degrees left of the aircraft (so the antenna
has to look thru the fuselage). I can't say for certain what the range
degradation is then. Picking up the localizer and GS signals has never been a
problem.
I ignored Bob A's instructions to some extent. I put the antenna fairly far back,
away from the landing light, the aluminum foil, and the wiring for the lights
(I ran these wires against the wing rib, and brought them out well in front
of the antenna.).
I also have a second antenna, an Archer clone slightly modified for slightly higher
frequencies, in the left tip which I use for the #2 com (G420). I fastened
the ground side of this antenna as high up as I could, under the top side plate
nuts, and ran the element down to the bottom side of the tip, as steeply
as I could, to get some vertical polarization. (most of the current flows in the
first part of the radiating element). At 10 miles and pointed at the tower,
3000', tower reports the SL-30/belly whip as "5x5"; the G420 and wing tip antenna
as "5x4", eg, slightly weaker. This agrees with my reception of the ATIS
signal, the Archer/G420 is slightly weaker than the SL-30/external belly whip,
although just barely noticeable. Again, I notice that at 15 miles or more I loose
the ATIS on #2 if the left wing is pointed directly away from the tower.
If I were doing it again, I would do it exactly the same as it is now.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367479#367479
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: AP procedure |
I have a Trio autopilot (which I like a lot btw), and I also boot it up prior to
takeoff, not because I have to (it boots in flight just fine) but because it
is my "third source" of attitude information, should there be a disagreement
between the other two. The Trio shows a symbolic turn coordinator, even when disengaged,
so it is easy to compare to the other 2 attitude sources. I also use
the autotrim feature, manually, if the autopilot is not engaged. So I always
boot it up prior to takeoff.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367480#367480
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna locations |
I have used the Bob Archer Nav antennas in many airplanes and have never been dissatisfied
with their performance. In reality, how often do you even tune in
a VOR when you have a GPS? I sometimes tune it in to teach someone how they work
and how to use them. The range is not as good as the cat whiskers, but the
antenna is cheaper and the plane is cleaner that way (and it's easier to install,
IMHO). When flying an ILS, the signal is so strong when you are actually using
it that the wingtip antenna is more than enough.
I did install one Bob Archer Com antenna and I was very unhappy with the results.
The Nav antenna is horizontally polarized so the RV-10 wingtip is ideal. The
Com is supposed to be vertically polarized, so the RV-10 wingtip is very far
from ideal.
YMMV, but I will continue to use wingtip Nav antennas whenever I can.
Also, even with dual Nav radios, you can use one antenna with diplexers, triplexers
and splitters as necessary.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
On Feb 28, 2012, at 5:28 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
>
> I have a single Archer in the right wing tip, running to an SL-30, as my only
VOR. (As another poster mentioned, if you need to save money, I'd drop the #2
VOR - assuming you have a GPS backup). I easily pick up good signals at 50 miles
@ 5000', except if the station is 90 degrees left of the aircraft (so the
antenna has to look thru the fuselage). I can't say for certain what the range
degradation is then. Picking up the localizer and GS signals has never been
a problem.
> I ignored Bob A's instructions to some extent. I put the antenna fairly far back,
away from the landing light, the aluminum foil, and the wiring for the lights
(I ran these wires against the wing rib, and brought them out well in front
of the antenna.).
>
> I also have a second antenna, an Archer clone slightly modified for slightly
higher frequencies, in the left tip which I use for the #2 com (G420). I fastened
the ground side of this antenna as high up as I could, under the top side
plate nuts, and ran the element down to the bottom side of the tip, as steeply
as I could, to get some vertical polarization. (most of the current flows in
the first part of the radiating element). At 10 miles and pointed at the tower,
3000', tower reports the SL-30/belly whip as "5x5"; the G420 and wing tip antenna
as "5x4", eg, slightly weaker. This agrees with my reception of the ATIS
signal, the Archer/G420 is slightly weaker than the SL-30/external belly whip,
although just barely noticeable. Again, I notice that at 15 miles or more I
loose the ATIS on #2 if the left wing is pointed directly away from the tower.
>
> If I were doing it again, I would do it exactly the same as it is now.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367479#367479
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | SFO Trip This Week |
I am in the Bay area for a couple days, business trip. Does anyone need an excuse
to go out and burn some 100LL Wednesday afternoon/evening? I'll buy fuel
or food.
Cheers,
Frank
--------
Frank Dombroski
RV-10 N10FD Flying
RV-8 N84FD Finished and sold :-{
SMQ Somerset Airport NJ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367487#367487
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna locations |
Use a single Bob Archer Nav for 1 or both NAV radios - it works fine
for approaches
Don't use a Bob Archer Comm at all - it works okay but not well enough
My limited experience exactly matches everything said below.
On 2/28/2012 6:08 PM, Jesse Saint wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Jesse Saint<jesse@saintaviation.com>
>
> I have used the Bob Archer Nav antennas in many airplanes and have never been
dissatisfied with their performance. In reality, how often do you even tune in
a VOR when you have a GPS? I sometimes tune it in to teach someone how they
work and how to use them. The range is not as good as the cat whiskers, but the
antenna is cheaper and the plane is cleaner that way (and it's easier to install,
IMHO). When flying an ILS, the signal is so strong when you are actually
using it that the wingtip antenna is more than enough.
>
> I did install one Bob Archer Com antenna and I was very unhappy with the results.
The Nav antenna is horizontally polarized so the RV-10 wingtip is ideal.
The Com is supposed to be vertically polarized, so the RV-10 wingtip is very far
from ideal.
>
> YMMV, but I will continue to use wingtip Nav antennas whenever I can.
>
> Also, even with dual Nav radios, you can use one antenna with diplexers, triplexers
and splitters as necessary.
>
> do not archive
>
> Jesse Saint
> Saint Aviation, Inc.
> jesse@saintaviation.com
> C: 352-427-0285
> F: 815-377-3694
>
> On Feb 28, 2012, at 5:28 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner"<bobturner@alum.rpi.edu>
>>
>> I have a single Archer in the right wing tip, running to an SL-30, as my only
VOR. (As another poster mentioned, if you need to save money, I'd drop the #2
VOR - assuming you have a GPS backup). I easily pick up good signals at 50
miles @ 5000', except if the station is 90 degrees left of the aircraft (so the
antenna has to look thru the fuselage). I can't say for certain what the range
degradation is then. Picking up the localizer and GS signals has never been
a problem.
>> I ignored Bob A's instructions to some extent. I put the antenna fairly far
back, away from the landing light, the aluminum foil, and the wiring for the lights
(I ran these wires against the wing rib, and brought them out well in front
of the antenna.).
>>
>> I also have a second antenna, an Archer clone slightly modified for slightly
higher frequencies, in the left tip which I use for the #2 com (G420). I fastened
the ground side of this antenna as high up as I could, under the top side
plate nuts, and ran the element down to the bottom side of the tip, as steeply
as I could, to get some vertical polarization. (most of the current flows in
the first part of the radiating element). At 10 miles and pointed at the tower,
3000', tower reports the SL-30/belly whip as "5x5"; the G420 and wing tip
antenna as "5x4", eg, slightly weaker. This agrees with my reception of the ATIS
signal, the Archer/G420 is slightly weaker than the SL-30/external belly whip,
although just barely noticeable. Again, I notice that at 15 miles or more
I loose the ATIS on #2 if the left wing is pointed directly away from the tower.
>>
>> If I were doing it again, I would do it exactly the same as it is now.
>>
>> --------
>> Bob Turner
>> RV-10 QB
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367479#367479
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | LED tail light strobe |
Does anyone know a good source to purchase an LED tail light strobe combo to replace
my Whelen? I found a couple but they are out of stock.
Also, does anyone have experience with clear wing walk tape? Does it discolor?
Thx.
Dave Leikam
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: LED tail light strobe |
Dave,
I have the product made by AeroLeds.=C2- http://www.aeroleds.com/products
/navigation-lights/experimental.aspx =C2- Nice product.=C2-
No experience with clear wingwalk.
Sean Blair
COS
RV7=C2-
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Leikam" <arplnplt@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 10:32:06 PM
Subject: RV10-List: LED tail light strobe
Does anyone know a good source to purchase an LED tail light strobe combo t
o replace my Whelen? =C2-I found a couple but they are out of stock.
Also, does anyone have experience with clear wing walk tape? =C2-Does it
discolor?
Thx.
Dave Leikam
===========
===========
MS -
===========
e -
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin.
===========
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: LED tail light strobe |
This is what I used.
http://www.kestrobes.com/
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in mostly done, finishing
kit in progress.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367502#367502
Message 25
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| Subject: | Clear Wing Walk (was LED tail light strobe) |
Dave,
Always interested in trying something new (for better or worse) I used a ma
terial designed to add a non-skid texture to paint and painted my wing walk
s clear over the white basecoat. Then color matched the outline. See below:
[Description: http://painttheweb.com/painttheweb/rv-10/Images/Paint/Wing%20
Walk.jpg]
I wanted to extend the length of the wing graphically which I think has wor
ked to nice effect. That being said it's not ideal for most people, muddy f
eet and all. If I were to do it again I would use the exact same non-skid m
aterial but color match the step area my dark blue/grey.
Oh, one more thing. When I chose to go this route I slightly undersized the
area vs. the standard wing walk tape Van's sells in case I had to cover up
my mistake but I am pleased with the performance of this surface. Sorry I
don't recall the non-skid material.
Robin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of David Leikam
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:32 PM
Subject: RV10-List: LED tail light strobe
plnplt@gmail.com>>
Does anyone know a good source to purchase an LED tail light strobe combo t
o replace my Whelen? I found a couple but they are out of stock.
Also, does anyone have experience with clear wing walk tape? Does it disco
lor?
Thx.
Dave Leikam
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