Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:20 AM - Re: Windscreen Gap (jkreidler)
2. 06:29 AM - Re: Corrosion - was Windscreen Gap (Carl Froehlich)
3. 08:32 AM - Re: Re: Windscreen Gap (John Cox)
4. 09:40 AM - Re: Re: Windscreen Gap (John Cox)
5. 12:12 PM - Cee Baileys windows (egodfrey@ameritech.net)
6. 12:53 PM - Re: Cee Baileys windows (Pascal)
7. 01:25 PM - Re: Cee Baileys windows (Robin Marks)
8. 01:39 PM - Did I wreck my rudder skin? (Ed Kranz)
9. 02:25 PM - Re: Did I wreck my rudder skin? (Bob Leffler)
10. 02:26 PM - Re: Re: Windscreen Gap (Bob Leffler)
11. 02:43 PM - Re: Did I wreck my rudder skin? (Rene Felker)
12. 04:00 PM - Re: Did I wreck my rudder skin? (Ed Kranz)
13. 05:19 PM - Re: Did I wreck my rudder skin? (Michael Kraus)
14. 07:06 PM - Re: Did I wreck my rudder skin? ()
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Windscreen Gap |
"I used carbon fiber and standard West epoxy for the bottom windscreen fairing
instead of fiberglass."
I thought I read somewhere that you should not use carbon fiber cloth in direct
contact with aluminum because it promotes corrosion. Not sure if this is a tale
or based in fact - but probably worth further research.
--------
Jason Kreidler
4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
N44YH - Flying - #40617
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367629#367629
Message 2
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| Subject: | Corrosion - was Windscreen Gap |
Yep - the warning is to avoid aluminum contact with finished carbon on
fittings and such. This typically (as I understand it) is transitioning
carbon tubing to an aluminum fitting. In this case you have the condition
of moisture trapped between the two dissimilar but conductive materials,
creating the corrosion potential.
In my application carbon fiber and epoxy where applied to the aluminum skin
in assembly. This eliminates the issue.
Expanding the topic, this highlights the typical corrosion issues in our
planes. Mainly steal bolts in aluminum holes (e.g. spar bolts) and steel
gear legs in steel gear leg mounts. I use a liberal amount of white grease
for all such metal to metal contact. Some may recall when Van's did the SB
on the two seat tri-gear RVs to modify the front gear leg. Many needed a
torch to get the gear leg out of the mount because of corrosion. On my 8A
the leg slipped right out - 8 years after install.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jkreidler
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2012 8:19 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Windscreen Gap
<jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com>
"I used carbon fiber and standard West epoxy for the bottom windscreen
fairing instead of fiberglass."
I thought I read somewhere that you should not use carbon fiber cloth in
direct contact with aluminum because it promotes corrosion. Not sure if
this is a tale or based in fact - but probably worth further research.
--------
Jason Kreidler
4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
N44YH - Flying - #40617
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367629#367629
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Windscreen Gap |
It is a fact. The material has both advantages and clear disadvantages.
Fasteners are usually the first to fail.
Search out the " Nobility" table of materials.
John #40600.
On Mar 2, 2012 5:26 AM, "jkreidler" <jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com> wrote:
> jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com>
>
> "I used carbon fiber and standard West epoxy for the bottom windscreen
> fairing instead of fiberglass."
>
> I thought I read somewhere that you should not use carbon fiber cloth in
> direct contact with aluminum because it promotes corrosion. Not sure if
> this is a tale or based in fact - but probably worth further research.
>
> --------
> Jason Kreidler
> 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
> Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
> N44YH - Flying - #40617
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367629#367629
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Windscreen Gap |
The different conductivity of aluminum vs. carbon is increased by using the
aluminum as the aircraft voltage ground return path. The carbon can retain
moisture. Adhesives of carbon to aluminum and carbon to other fibers set
off the difference - Nobility Table. One technique is a cloth boundary
between the two dissimilar materials. Then all the electron flow is
through the fasteners. Carbon, Kevlar, combinations bring a higher level
of sophistication that "Good old E glass or S glass" against aluminum
alclad.
Research the FAA AC pubs on Inspection Techniques for various forms of
corrosion. Research builders of plastic aircraft for the challenges such
as the carbon cub, Lancair Evolution, Legacy or comparable builds. All
decisions carry risk. Weigh them and fly safe.
John
On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 8:31 AM, John Cox <rv10pro@gmail.com> wrote:
> It is a fact. The material has both advantages and clear disadvantages.
> Fasteners are usually the first to fail.
>
> Search out the " Nobility" table of materials.
>
> John #40600.
> On Mar 2, 2012 5:26 AM, "jkreidler" <jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com>
> wrote:
>
>> jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com>
>>
>> "I used carbon fiber and standard West epoxy for the bottom windscreen
>> fairing instead of fiberglass."
>>
>> I thought I read somewhere that you should not use carbon fiber cloth in
>> direct contact with aluminum because it promotes corrosion. Not sure if
>> this is a tale or based in fact - but probably worth further research.
>>
>> --------
>> Jason Kreidler
>> 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
>> Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
>> N44YH - Flying - #40617
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367629#367629
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Cee Baileys windows |
For those of you who have ordered the Cee Baileys windows, what
level of tint did you order that would match the windscreen. They have
the clear, light gray and light green. I have called them and they did
not know and said that they would get back to me. Am still waiting.
Ed Godfrey
40717
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Cee Baileys windows |
Get the clear. You will be very happy you went with the Cee baileys versus
the Vans. The one I got was plug n play I needed to make some minor
adjustments that took all of 30 minutes, but truthfully I could have
installed it without touching a thing. I had the Vans initially and it took
me hours to get it right, than to discover there is a bulge on the copilot
seat. Actually night an day comparison.
I did not install the sides but I hear they are plug n play as well.
Pascal
-----Original Message-----
From: egodfrey@ameritech.net
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2012 12:10 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Cee Baileys windows
<egodfrey@ameritech.net>
For those of you who have ordered the Cee Baileys windows, what
level of tint did you order that would match the windscreen. They have
the clear, light gray and light green. I have called them and they did
not know and said that they would get back to me. Am still waiting.
Ed Godfrey
40717
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Cee Baileys windows |
Ed,
I have a 3rd party dark tinted RV-8 bubble canopy and was worried about how dark
it was. Then I started flying and have not given it a second thought. Plus the
darker canopy looks cool on the 8. I have no idea how this translated to the
CB -10 windows just another data point.
Robin
Do not archive
Sent from my iPad2.
On Mar 2, 2012, at 3:18 PM, "egodfrey@ameritech.net" <egodfrey@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
> For those of you who have ordered the Cee Baileys windows, what level of tint
did you order that would match the windscreen. They have the clear, light gray
and light green. I have called them and they did not know and said that they
would get back to me. Am still waiting.
>
> Ed Godfrey
> 40717
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Did I wreck my rudder skin? |
After final drilling my rudder skin, I got to the step about putting a
slight bend in the rudder skin at the trailing edge. I bought the
Cleaveland Tools edge forming tool for just these situations. Well, I
managed to mangle the edge by using too much pressure and going too fast...
and it seems to have stretched the skin a bit.
After the debacle with the first skin, I went light an slow on the second
skin and the edge came out perfectly.
I went over the first skin the opposite way to take some of the bad bends
out, then made a bend in the correct direction to smooth it as much as
possible, but the edge is pretty wavy. I was sure the skin was junk, but I
figured I'd cleco it up with the good skin and wedge to see how it lays...
and it doesn't look too bad.
I'm leaning towards attempting to use the skin, but what do you all think?
I'm attaching a pic of the bad skin, the good skin, and the two jointed
together.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Did I wreck my rudder skin? |
As long as the trailing edge is straight, I would build on.
bob
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Kranz
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2012 4:39 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Did I wreck my rudder skin?
After final drilling my rudder skin, I got to the step about putting a
slight bend in the rudder skin at the trailing edge. I bought the Cleaveland
Tools edge forming tool for just these situations. Well, I managed to mangle
the edge by using too much pressure and going too fast... and it seems to
have stretched the skin a bit.
After the debacle with the first skin, I went light an slow on the second
skin and the edge came out perfectly.
I went over the first skin the opposite way to take some of the bad bends
out, then made a bend in the correct direction to smooth it as much as
possible, but the edge is pretty wavy. I was sure the skin was junk, but I
figured I'd cleco it up with the good skin and wedge to see how it lays...
and it doesn't look too bad.
I'm leaning towards attempting to use the skin, but what do you all think?
I'm attaching a pic of the bad skin, the good skin, and the two jointed
together.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Windscreen Gap |
True, but if the carbon is encased in epoxy, there shouldn't be an issue.
bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jkreidler
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2012 8:19 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Windscreen Gap
--> <jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com>
"I used carbon fiber and standard West epoxy for the bottom windscreen
fairing instead of fiberglass."
I thought I read somewhere that you should not use carbon fiber cloth in
direct contact with aluminum because it promotes corrosion. Not sure if
this is a tale or based in fact - but probably worth further research.
--------
Jason Kreidler
4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler N44YH - Flying - #40617
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367629#367629
Message 11
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| Subject: | Did I wreck my rudder skin? |
I agree. If I remember right, you proseal it anyway.
Did you create a riveting plate to do the trailing edge? If so, that will
help keep it straight..
Rene' Felker
N423CF
801-721-6080
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2012 3:15 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Did I wreck my rudder skin?
As long as the trailing edge is straight, I would build on.
bob
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Kranz
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2012 4:39 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Did I wreck my rudder skin?
After final drilling my rudder skin, I got to the step about putting a
slight bend in the rudder skin at the trailing edge. I bought the Cleaveland
Tools edge forming tool for just these situations. Well, I managed to mangle
the edge by using too much pressure and going too fast... and it seems to
have stretched the skin a bit.
After the debacle with the first skin, I went light an slow on the second
skin and the edge came out perfectly.
I went over the first skin the opposite way to take some of the bad bends
out, then made a bend in the correct direction to smooth it as much as
possible, but the edge is pretty wavy. I was sure the skin was junk, but I
figured I'd cleco it up with the good skin and wedge to see how it lays...
and it doesn't look too bad.
I'm leaning towards attempting to use the skin, but what do you all think?
I'm attaching a pic of the bad skin, the good skin, and the two jointed
together.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Did I wreck my rudder skin? |
I'm going to use the angle-iron method, cleco every hole, and use the
clothespin trick that I've seen a few builders use to stop pillowing
between rivets while the pro-seal sets (especially important to me now that
the one edge is a little stretched...)
On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 4:41 PM, Rene Felker <rene@felker.com> wrote:
> I agree. If I remember right, you proseal it anyway.****
>
> ** **
>
> Did you create a riveting plate to do the trailing edge? If so, that wil
l
> help keep it straight=85=85****
>
> ** **
>
> Rene' Felker****
>
> N423CF****
>
> 801-721-6080****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Bob Leffler
> *Sent:* Friday, March 02, 2012 3:15 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Did I wreck my rudder skin?****
>
> ** **
>
> As long as the trailing edge is straight, I would build on.****
>
> ** **
>
> bob****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Ed Kranz
> *Sent:* Friday, March 02, 2012 4:39 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Did I wreck my rudder skin?****
>
> ** **
>
> After final drilling my rudder skin, I got to the step about putting a
> slight bend in the rudder skin at the trailing edge. I bought the
> Cleaveland Tools edge forming tool for just these situations. Well, I
> managed to mangle the edge by using too much pressure and going too fast.
..
> and it seems to have stretched the skin a bit.****
>
> ** **
>
> After the debacle with the first skin, I went light an slow on the second
> skin and the edge came out perfectly. ****
>
> ** **
>
> I went over the first skin the opposite way to take some of the bad bends
> out, then made a bend in the correct direction to smooth it as much as
> possible, but the edge is pretty wavy. I was sure the skin was junk, but
I
> figured I'd cleco it up with the good skin and wedge to see how it lays..
.
> and it doesn't look too bad.****
>
> ** **
>
> I'm leaning towards attempting to use the skin, but what do you all think
?
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> I'm attaching a pic of the bad skin, the good skin, and the two jointed
> together.****
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> * *
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Did I wreck my rudder skin? |
It'll probably turn out ok, but it's hard to say for sure.
You are definitely putting way too much of a bend in the skin edge. You just want
to break the edge a very slight amount. Almost where you can't see the bend
line. You just need an ever so slight bend and you'll be fine.
-Mike Kraus
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 2, 2012, at 4:39 PM, Ed Kranz <ed.kranz@gmail.com> wrote:
> After final drilling my rudder skin, I got to the step about putting a slight
bend in the rudder skin at the trailing edge. I bought the Cleaveland Tools edge
forming tool for just these situations. Well, I managed to mangle the edge
by using too much pressure and going too fast... and it seems to have stretched
the skin a bit.
>
> After the debacle with the first skin, I went light an slow on the second skin
and the edge came out perfectly.
>
> I went over the first skin the opposite way to take some of the bad bends out,
then made a bend in the correct direction to smooth it as much as possible,
but the edge is pretty wavy. I was sure the skin was junk, but I figured I'd cleco
it up with the good skin and wedge to see how it lays... and it doesn't look
too bad.
>
> I'm leaning towards attempting to use the skin, but what do you all think?
>
> I'm attaching a pic of the bad skin, the good skin, and the two jointed together.
> <bad.JPG>
> <good.JPG>
> <joined.JPG>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Did I wreck my rudder skin? |
Hey Ed,
What the others are saying. The pictures look like it pulls together
very well. Keep in mind that more than likely you are going to paint
your plane. We thought we had done a pretty good job on the rudder
until we got much further along in the build and cringed when we looked
back at our first stage of building. So before priming/painting, I
simply went back over the rudder and filled any dings with epoxy/micro
beads, sanded it flush, and after priming/paint, it looks perfect. For
those who are proud of their rivet work, or want to be judged for best
of show =93 don=99t fill your rivets. I kind of like the
=9Cplastic plane=9D slick look, so I filled all the rivets
in/around all leading edges, and most in the tail section. No problems
2.5 yrs. out.
Later, =93 Lew
From: Ed Kranz
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2012 4:39 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Did I wreck my rudder skin?
After final drilling my rudder skin, I got to the step about putting a
slight bend in the rudder skin at the trailing edge. I bought the
Cleaveland Tools edge forming tool for just these situations. Well, I
managed to mangle the edge by using too much pressure and going too
fast... and it seems to have stretched the skin a bit.
After the debacle with the first skin, I went light an slow on the
second skin and the edge came out perfectly.
I went over the first skin the opposite way to take some of the bad
bends out, then made a bend in the correct direction to smooth it as
much as possible, but the edge is pretty wavy. I was sure the skin was
junk, but I figured I'd cleco it up with the good skin and wedge to see
how it lays... and it doesn't look too bad.
I'm leaning towards attempting to use the skin, but what do you all
think?
I'm attaching a pic of the bad skin, the good skin, and the two jointed
together.
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