Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:29 AM - Re: Re: Flight over Grand Canyon (Robin Marks)
2. 02:36 AM - Re: Low Fuel Sensor Location (Bob Leffler)
3. 04:52 AM - Re: Starship at Yuma (Kelly McMullen)
4. 12:11 PM - Re: Low Fuel Sensor Location (Tom Koelzer)
5. 12:30 PM - Re: Low Fuel Sensor Location (Jae Chang)
6. 12:55 PM - Re: Starship at Yuma (Bob Turner)
7. 01:07 PM - Re: Low Fuel Sensor Location (Tom Koelzer)
8. 01:34 PM - Re: Low Fuel Sensor Location (Rene Felker)
9. 01:36 PM - Re: Garmin competition (Nikolaos Napoli)
10. 01:37 PM - Re: Low Fuel Sensor Location (Jae Chang)
11. 02:25 PM - Re: Low Fuel Sensor Location (Tom Koelzer)
12. 04:41 PM - Re: Low Fuel Sensor Location (Michael Sausen)
13. 05:04 PM - Low Fuel Sensor Location (Tom Koelzer)
14. 07:00 PM - Re: Low Fuel Sensor Location (Tom Koelzer)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Flight over Grand Canyon |
http://www.swaviator.com/html/issueJJ99/canyon.html
Interesting site detailing the issues surrounding GC flights. About half way down
the author discusses his favorite path to fly the GC as a GA pilot with the
current restrictions. Sounds like a lot of fun.
Robin
Sent from the new iPad
On May 6, 2012, at 11:33 PM, "Bill Watson" <mauledriver@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> That all sounds right on the mark! Will spend all the 2 cents.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On May 7, 2012, at 12:45 AM, "Bill Strahan" <bill@gdsx.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Just my 2 cents: I strongly encourage you to get the Grand Canyon chart far
in advance, and plan your flight to criss cross the canyon in the corridors provided.
>>
>> I've been a couple of times, and by far the most enjoyable time was when I took
the chart and plotted out my own waypoints by measuring lat/lon directly on
the chart. I then put those in as user waypoints and had the autopilot fly
the course. I entered from the South, crossed once at one altitude, the autopilot
made the turn for me as I descended to come back the other way.
>>
>> I had my wife and 4 kids in the plane that time, and it was WONDERFUL to know
exactly where I was at all times, be able to keep my head out of the plane 100%
of the time and participate in my family's enjoyment.
>>
>> If you have the chart and arrive and hand fly the corridors you'll still enjoy
it, but it sure takes a load off to have a planned course and fly that plan.
Mark the points on your chart and use a straight-edge to find what the lat/lon
is from the graticule on the chart.
>>
>> One other thing: We spent early morning in Sedona. Then saw the Grand Canyon.
Then hit Monument Valley. All doable in a day, but it's all so freaking spectacular
that your mind just goes numb and shuts down. Highly recommend you
try to enjoy each separately and get the most.
>>
>> Have a safe flight!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372528#372528
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Sensor Location |
>From what I recall in conversations with Scott, it should be about 5 gallons.
I made those mods about three years ago, so the memory is a little fuzzy.
I will test in July when I first put fuel in the tanks.
Bob
Sent from my iPad
On May 7, 2012, at 2:28 AM, Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net> wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
> do you know, what amount of fuel is left when the warning comes on?
>
> Many thanks
>
> Werner
>
> On 05.05.2012 02:46, Bob Leffler wrote:
>> Attached is a photo that Scott Schmidt provided me several years ago. I put
>> mine in the same location.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Koelzer
>> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 10:00 PM
>> To: RV10-List@matronics.com
>> Subject: RV10-List: Low Fuel Sensor Location
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tom Koelzer<40950@rv10.net>
>>
>> Looking for information regarding where to locate low fuel sensor in inboard
>> tank ribs related to vertical height vs location. I am building tanks, would
>> like to drill and install before final assembly, have calculated a location
>> but would like to verify my results. Looking for fuel measurements once
>> installed. I have AE Fuel Guardian sensors.
>>
>> Any related data would be appreciated.
>>
>> Tom Koelzer
>> 40950 Wings
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Starship at Yuma |
There are a very small number that didn't accept Beech buyback. I don't
know how they are able to keep them airworthy, as I believe Beech intended
to return the type certificate to the FAA. There are about 6 of them parked
in storage at AVQ, Marana airport(formerly known as Avra Valley). From what
I understand, they turned out so heavy from FAA certification requirements
at the time, that they don't perform as well or have as much room as King
Airs, and cost at least as much to operate.
On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 2:12 AM, Albert Gardner <ibspud@roadrunner.com>wrote:
> We had a very rare treat here at Yuma Sat. Heard an unusual sound so I
> walked around the corner on my hangar to see what was! A Starship came
> taxing in on Z2 and parked on Millionair's ramp. Got a few pics and a mov
> as
> it took off on 35. Very nice. I think it was out of Marana and I've heard
> there are only 3 or 4 flying now.
> Albert Gardner
> N991RV
> Yuma, AZ
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Sensor Location |
Werner,
I sent a PM to Scott Schmidt asking him same question. I'll post once I
find out.
Tom
Do not archive
Werner Schneider writes:
>
> Bob,
>
> do you know, what amount of fuel is left when the warning comes on?
>
> Many thanks
>
> Werner
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Sensor Location |
I can confirm. I used Scott's measurements, and i got the optical
warning at 5 gallons in level flight the other day. However, with
turbulence, it can warn with as high as 10 gallons.
Jae
On 5/7/2012 12:10 PM, Tom Koelzer wrote:
> Werner,
> I sent a PM to Scott Schmidt asking him same question. I'll post once
> I find out.
> Tom
> Do not archive
> Werner Schneider writes:
>> Bob,
>> do you know, what amount of fuel is left when the warning comes on?
>> Many thanks
>> Werner
--
#40533 RV-10
First flight 10/19/2011
Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Starship at Yuma |
Another composite airplane that didn't quite live up to its billing. Beech just
couldn't get the weight down to their original estimates, so they ended up with
a full load/very short range or long range/very few passengers airplane.
I may be wrong, but I think a few years ago Beech stated that they would no longer
support the Starship, and offered something (I don't know how generous) to
buy back the remaining ones?
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372569#372569
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Sensor Location |
Have you ever verified by fuel measurement on the ground or just indication
on the fuel gauge in flight?
Tom
Jae Chang writes:
>
> I can confirm. I used Scott's measurements, and i got the optical warning
> at 5 gallons in level flight the other day. However, with turbulence, it
> can warn with as high as 10 gallons.
>
> Jae
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Low Fuel Sensor Location |
I did my own measurements and used a different point ....but I could not find it
in my documentation....I will keep looking and let you know if I find it. Mine
warns at about 3 gallons, smooth air, level flight. At 6 gallons in turbulence
and approach to landing with a little bit of rudder work.
I am happy with mine. I get a 10 gallon alarm from the efis based on fuel burn,
a 5 gallon alarm on each tank from the float sensor, and a 3 gallon or more
alarm from the optical......
I should never run out of gas......
I normally do not fly with both tanks less than 10 gallons....so it is unusual
for me to get any of the alarms.
Rene' Felker
N423CF
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jae Chang
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 1:29 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Low Fuel Sensor Location
I can confirm. I used Scott's measurements, and i got the optical warning at
5 gallons in level flight the other day. However, with turbulence, it can warn
with as high as 10 gallons.
Jae
On 5/7/2012 12:10 PM, Tom Koelzer wrote:
> Werner,
> I sent a PM to Scott Schmidt asking him same question. I'll post once
> I find out.
> Tom
> Do not archive
> Werner Schneider writes:
>> Bob,
>> do you know, what amount of fuel is left when the warning comes on?
>> Many thanks
>> Werner
--
#40533 RV-10
First flight 10/19/2011
Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin competition |
I have the A dual screen GRT system on order. I started out with Dynon then switched
to Garmin G3X and ended up with GRT. At the current prices they are offering
the system it looks to me like a bargain compared to the others. They
will be offering the remote transponder for about 2K a remote audio panel for
about 1K and a remote waas gps for about 4.5K. They tell me these will be ready
in July. By theway my screens are shipping this week. This allows one to
actually get 3 big screens up front if desired with everything else mounted remotely..
Additionally you can put an androis tablet on the console that can control
everything through wifi if you dont want to use the main screen. I havent
finalized my setup as I allready have a GTN650 and have to decide on where
to place it.
For comparison a second HXr screen is $3600 vs about $3400 for Dynon but the GRT
screen is larger with higher resolution and has wifi and arinc 429 built in
so you end up with two for backup. It also has an autopilot that can fly a vertically
coupled approach.
If I sound excited about GRT its because I believe they just raised the bar for
everyone and I am not connected to them in any way.
Nikolaos Napoli
On May 5, 2012, at 5:46 AM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> If you decide to stay with the Dynon, they have a Mode S transponder
> that works with the EFIS and ADSB for much less than the Garmin 330.
> With the money you save you could upgrade to a Garmin GTN650 GPS. That
> is about what I am looking at very soon. I looked and didn't see any
> mention of a GPS on Grand Rapids web site. Their current iteration of
> EFIS looks like a big improvement from what they offered a couple
> years ago.
>
> On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 10:16 PM, <davidsoutpost@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> The more I look into this the better it sounds. I am about to pull the trigger
and order up my panel within the next month and had pretty much committed
in my mind to an IFR panel with an independent dual 10" Dynon system , Garmin
SL30, Garmin 430W , Garmin audio panel and mode S transponder. I have the
Dynon servo's installed but am more than willing to take a $$ hit and replace
them GRT. I wonder about the GPS updates and their availability/costs? Anyway's,,,,thanks
to bringing this up Bob,------------Now I have another decision
to make!
>>
>> David Clifford
>>
>> RV-10 Builder
>> Howell, MI
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: "Bob Turner" <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu>
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Friday, May 4, 2012 12:30:35 AM
>> Subject: RV10-List: Garmin competition
>>
>>
>>
>> Garmin has had a virtual monopoly on the IFR certified GPS market ever since
they were allowed to buy UPS (Apollo) Avionics. GRT has just announced their
latest EFIS, the HXr. But I think the real news is that GRT is also offering a
remote IFR certified GPS, for less than a G-400.
>>
>> At last, some competition for Garmin!
>>
>> --------
>> Bob Turner
>> RV-10 QB
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372382#372382= - List Contribution Web Site ; &nb=====================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Sensor Location |
No, i have never verified the optical warning on the ground. It would
be a somewhat moot point for me since the optical sensor was installed
at least 4 years prior to my wings installed. there was no way i was
going to change its location now. thus, yes, 5 gals is what was
indicated form the float senders only, which were calibrated every 2
gallons.
Jae
On 5/7/2012 1:06 PM, Tom Koelzer wrote:
> Have you ever verified by fuel measurement on the ground or just
> indication on the fuel gauge in flight?
> Tom
> Jae Chang writes:
>> I can confirm. I used Scott's measurements, and i got the optical
>> warning at 5 gallons in level flight the other day. However, with
>> turbulence, it can warn with as high as 10 gallons.
>> Jae
--
#40533 RV-10
First flight 10/19/2011
Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Sensor Location |
Thanks Jae,
I'm trying to decide before I drill the hole and prior to final assembly.
Tom
Do not archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | Low Fuel Sensor Location |
If you can find my entries in the http://www.mykitlog.com/msausen/ site, I actually put one of the wings in flight orientation and used a manometer to set the 5gal mark. Haven't flown it yet though so YMMV.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Koelzer
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Low Fuel Sensor Location
Thanks Jae,
I'm trying to decide before I drill the hole and prior to final assembly.
Tom
Do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Low Fuel Sensor Location |
Bob,
Thanks! That is very close to the position I have chosen for which my
calculations show 4.7 gal total or an estimate of 4.4 gal useable
(sucking air). Jae reports his sensor on at 5 gal in level flight using
the same Scott Schmidt location.
Tom
Begin forwarded message:
> From: Bob Leffler <bob@thelefflers.com>
> Subject: Fuel sensor
> Date: May 7, 2012 4:43:50 PM CDT
> To: Tom Koelzer <40950@rv10.net>
>
> The bottom is on the right. This is a photo of my right wing.
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Sensor Location |
Michael,
Looked at your the relevant page at:
http://tinyurl.com/msausen
There you stated you marked the tank for 2.5 gal (vs the 5gal) and the mark on
your tank is consistent with my calculations. I had included the 3.5 deg dihedral
but not the incidence but further calculations showed only a decrease in my
figures by about one-half pint because of fuel being higher towards the back
of the tank. And that looked pretty close to what you measured.
All this means is that I have more confidence my model calculations are consistent
with results, at least at the 5 gal and 2.5 gal levels. But as others have
stated, sensor indications vary, maybe even double for rough air or rudder inputs
(I'm probably measuring with a micrometer and cutting with an axe). This
was really only a cerebral exercise more than anything.
Thanks to all who responded. I will provide analysis if interested.
Tom
40950
On May 7, 2012, at 6:39 PM, Michael Sausen wrote:
>
> If you can find my entries in the http://www.mykitlog.com/msausen/ site, I actually put one of the wings in flight orientation and used a manometer to set the 5gal mark. Haven't flown it yet though so YMMV.
>
> Michael
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