---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 05/30/12: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:38 AM - Re: Re: GRT Panel Layout (Jesse Saint) 2. 04:53 AM - Re: Re: Main gear shudder revisited (Rick Lark) 3. 05:02 AM - Re: Re: GRT Panel Layout (Nikolaos Napoli) 4. 05:12 AM - Re: Re: GRT Panel Layout (Nikolaos Napoli) 5. 05:30 AM - Re: Re: GRT Panel Layout (Jesse Saint) 6. 07:02 AM - Re: Re: GRT Panel Layout (Kelly McMullen) 7. 07:31 AM - fuel filter inspection (curtis groote) 8. 07:53 AM - Re: fuel filter inspection (Don McDonald) 9. 08:00 AM - Re: fuel filter inspection (Rene Felker) 10. 08:17 AM - Re: fuel filter inspection (Dave Saylor) 11. 08:33 AM - Re: Re: IO-540 Slick Mag (Albert Gardner) 12. 08:46 AM - Re: fuel filter inspection (Pascal) 13. 09:03 AM - Re: fuel filter inspection (DLM) 14. 09:25 AM - Re: fuel filter inspection (Jesse Saint) 15. 09:36 AM - Re: fuel filter inspection (Sean Stephens) 16. 09:42 AM - Re: fuel filter inspection (Seano) 17. 10:10 AM - Re: fuel filter inspection (DLM) 18. 10:52 AM - Re: Re: IO-540 Slick Mag (Albert Gardner) 19. 01:17 PM - Re: GRT Panel Layout (Bob Turner) 20. 02:11 PM - Re: fuel filter inspection (ddddsp1@juno.com) 21. 02:24 PM - Re: fuel filter inspection (pilotdds) 22. 02:27 PM - Re: fuel filter inspection (Rob Kermanj) 23. 06:22 PM - Re: fuel filter inspection (bob-tcw) 24. 07:05 PM - Re: fuel filter inspection (Kelly McMullen) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:38:34 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: GRT Panel Layout From: Jesse Saint The VPX does have a timer for how long a switch has been pressed. It will disable that circuit if a switch is pressed for more than a preset length of time, at which time you can control the circuit (trim or flaps) from the screen. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 On May 29, 2012, at 10:36 PM, Nikolaos Napoli wrote: > > Hey Bill, > > Maybe I am missing something but I dont think the VPX can detect a stuck switch. I don't believe it has a way to detect if a switch is on because you are commanding it or its on because its stuck, it also has no timer to detect how long a switch has been on. It fact I don't think there is a way to detect that at all. It has no circuitry inside the switch, so all it knows is the switch is on or off. If you know otherwise please point me to the pertinent section in the manual. > > Thanks > Niko > > > On May 29, 2012, at 7:56 PM, bill.peyton wrote: > >> >> Nick, >> With the VPX system, when it detects a stuck switch, it disables the mechanical switch. It then allows trim operation directly from a soft switch >> on the EFIS >> >> -------- >> Bill >> WA0SYV >> Aviation Partners, LLC >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374222#374222 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:53:09 AM PST US From: "Rick Lark" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Main gear shudder revisited Hmmm, yeah I think I will just delete the wheel from the Vans order. It will certainly be less hassel when I consider shipping across the Can/US border. Thx guys Rick Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Kelly McMullen To: rv10-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 10:09 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Main gear shudder revisited Kind of a wash. You pay shipping to send one back and get new correct wheel(and highly recommend axle) or you get credit for wheel at less than 1:1 if you delete from order. I think the latter is less hassle. On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 6:47 PM, Rick Lark wrote: Guys, so am I farther ahead to just delete the Vans nose wheel when ordering the finshing kit or does it not matter one way or another? Thx, Rick #40956 Southampton, Ont On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 8:42 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: I presume you are talking Matco, and yes, if the wheel is new, never split, never had a tire on it you can get direct exchange. On 5/29/2012 5:08 PM, bill.peyton wrote: --> RV10-List message posted by: "bill.peyton" Rick, The match guys will give you a credit for your new uninstalled wheel Bill -------- Bill WA0SYV Aviation Partners, LLC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374224#374224 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:02:40 AM PST US From: Nikolaos Napoli Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: GRT Panel Layout Here is a handbook on lightning from NASA and industry. It was specifically geared for small aircraft. http://www.niar.twsu.edu/agate/Documents/Lightning/WP3.1-031027-043.pdfIt An interesting quote from it "it is also important to note that many strike incidents have been reported where no bona fide thunderstorms have been visually observed or reported " As far as RV's being brought down by lightning, not many hours have been accumulated in rv's with experimental EFIS's and no vacuum artificial horizons in IMC condition. Until recently, most small aircraft flying in IMC had vacuum systems, and even certified EFIS systems that are in certified aircraft like Cessnas with G1000 have vacuum systems. A lightning strike or other phenomena taking the instrument panel out on these aircraft is not a catastrophic event and will not get reported. The same event, in an all electric, experimental EFIS aircraft might be a different story. I do not know how tolerant my EFIS is to lightening strike, I have no information, therefore, I don't assume, I work around it. Another point is that if a person loses control in IMC and crashes due to lightning strike taking out their all electric panel I don't think it would be reported as such or one would even find out. There are many loss of control in IMC accidents that are not explained. So there really isn't much data on this at all to base a conclusion on. As for the fiberglass roof on the RV10, I personally have a bunch of wires including coaxial cable running above my head. Don't know how much it helps but that small risk would take a lot of effort to mitigate I am not willing to do it. How far do I want to take this? Simple for me, by installing a vacuum system I mitigate this risk for relatively small effort and cost. I don't have to figure out the unknowns. Don't have to assume. Its simple, its been proven over decades, its cheap, it works when the lights go out. It fits my risk mitigation criteria. So yes, the risk is low and so is the effort to guard against it. Its like seat belts, the risk of me getting into an accident while driving to work today is extremely low, but putting on my seat belt to make the accident more survivable is not much of an effort. On May 30, 2012, at 2:32 AM, mmayfield wrote: > > > napolin(at)me.com wrote: >> Mike, >> Extremely low risk is a relative term. >> >> I don't know how you have reached that conclusion but I don't think its true. > > I reached that conclusion because although there may have been RVs hit by lightning I'm not aware of any which have been "brought down" by it, or where pilots have been fried by it. This fact leads me to conclude that the chances of a lightning strike causing your premature demise while you're out flying are very low. [Wink] > >> On non-certified equipment its anyones guess as to how tolerant these computers are to lightning As I have stated earlier, I believe your statement is true for large cockpits with certified equipment, i.e. airliners, but not true for the small craft we are flying. > > I disagree. If the uncertified equipment from certain manufacturers is not at least crafted with fault-tolerant design principles and DO160 in mind, I'd be a little disappointed and openly wonder why they're inflicting it on the OBAM community (and why people are buying it). > >> There are document cases in RVs where lightning took out the EFIS, there are also document cases of damage to instruments due to lightning in many aircraft. > > I guess my whole point is: how far do you want to take this? I mean, fighter pilots don't have metal roofs over their heads either. I've known of accidents where the pilot has been killed by a birdstrike, a "tree" strike, a heart attack, GLOC, even by the ricochet of their own explosive ordnance, but never a lightning strike, even though aircraft get hit now and again. From the instrument perspective, backup basic flight instruments of some form (electronic or otherwise) are essential for sure, with an independent power supply of course. But how far do you want to take it?[/quote] > > Cheers, > > -------- > Mike > > Your political opinions are noted. And ignored. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374245#374245 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:00 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: GRT Panel Layout From: Nikolaos Napoli I don't think thats true Jesse. I have personally asked him about incorporating a 3 second limit at Sun-n-Fun. He said that it could be incorporated but he didn't seem too enthusiastic about it. He said "3 seconds is a long time." If enough people ask for it he might incorporate it in future revisions of the software. If you know otherwise please point me to the location where it states that. Thanks On May 30, 2012, at 7:36 AM, Jesse Saint wrote: > > The VPX does have a timer for how long a switch has been pressed. It will disable that circuit if a switch is pressed for more than a preset length of time, at which time you can control the circuit (trim or flaps) from the screen. > > Jesse Saint > Saint Aviation, Inc. > jesse@saintaviation.com > C: 352-427-0285 > F: 815-377-3694 > > On May 29, 2012, at 10:36 PM, Nikolaos Napoli wrote: > >> >> Hey Bill, >> >> Maybe I am missing something but I dont think the VPX can detect a stuck switch. I don't believe it has a way to detect if a switch is on because you are commanding it or its on because its stuck, it also has no timer to detect how long a switch has been on. It fact I don't think there is a way to detect that at all. It has no circuitry inside the switch, so all it knows is the switch is on or off. If you know otherwise please point me to the pertinent section in the manual. >> >> Thanks >> Niko >> >> >> On May 29, 2012, at 7:56 PM, bill.peyton wrote: >> >>> >>> Nick, >>> With the VPX system, when it detects a stuck switch, it disables the mechanical switch. It then allows trim operation directly from a soft switch >>> on the EFIS >>> >>> -------- >>> Bill >>> WA0SYV >>> Aviation Partners, LLC >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374222#374222 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:30:10 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: GRT Panel Layout From: Jesse Saint You are right. That was a feature that they advertised early in the company, where the flaps or trim would cancel if pressed for 15 seconds or something like that. Now, it tells you when the trim or flaps are running, and pushing the opposite switch for 3 seconds will disable that circuit. They apparently replaced the feature I was talking about with the above, as well as disabling all trims and flaps if a switch is active during boot-up. I will request that feature too, as I thought I had it already. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 On May 30, 2012, at 8:11 AM, Nikolaos Napoli wrote: > > I don't think thats true Jesse. I have personally asked him about incorporating a 3 second limit at Sun-n-Fun. He said that it could be incorporated but he didn't seem too enthusiastic about it. He said "3 seconds is a long time." If enough people ask for it he might incorporate it in future revisions of the software. If you know otherwise please point me to the location where it states that. > > Thanks > > > On May 30, 2012, at 7:36 AM, Jesse Saint wrote: > >> >> The VPX does have a timer for how long a switch has been pressed. It will disable that circuit if a switch is pressed for more than a preset length of time, at which time you can control the circuit (trim or flaps) from the screen. >> >> Jesse Saint >> Saint Aviation, Inc. >> jesse@saintaviation.com >> C: 352-427-0285 >> F: 815-377-3694 >> >> On May 29, 2012, at 10:36 PM, Nikolaos Napoli wrote: >> >>> >>> Hey Bill, >>> >>> Maybe I am missing something but I dont think the VPX can detect a stuck switch. I don't believe it has a way to detect if a switch is on because you are commanding it or its on because its stuck, it also has no timer to detect how long a switch has been on. It fact I don't think there is a way to detect that at all. It has no circuitry inside the switch, so all it knows is the switch is on or off. If you know otherwise please point me to the pertinent section in the manual. >>> >>> Thanks >>> Niko >>> >>> >>> On May 29, 2012, at 7:56 PM, bill.peyton wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Nick, >>>> With the VPX system, when it detects a stuck switch, it disables the mechanical switch. It then allows trim operation directly from a soft switch >>>> on the EFIS >>>> >>>> -------- >>>> Bill >>>> WA0SYV >>>> Aviation Partners, LLC >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Read this topic online here: >>>> >>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374222#374222 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:02:50 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: GRT Panel Layout From: Kelly McMullen Maybe not a lot of initial labor effort, but you are looking at approx. $5-600 in vacuum system, $700 for vacuum art. horizon, both of which have 500 mean time before failure estimates, at which time you get to spend another $1000 replacing them, along with more labor to clean the lines of carbon dust, along with annual filter changes. Not exactly low cost or low effort in the long run. More money and effort if you elect to use more reliable wet vacuum pump over a dry pump. Or you could spend about the same money for a backup EFIS that likely will last 4 times longer (or more) than the vacuum pump items. Kelly On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 5:02 AM, Nikolaos Napoli wrote: > > How far do I want to take this? Simple for me, by installing a vacuum > system I mitigate this risk for relatively small effort and cost. I don't > have to figure out the unknowns. Don't have to assume. Its simple, its > been proven over decades, its cheap, it works when the lights go out. It > fits my risk mitigation criteria. So yes, the risk is low and so is the > effort to guard against it. Its like seat belts, the risk of me getting > into an accident while driving to work today is extremely low, but putting > on my seat belt to make the accident more survivable is not much of an > effort. > > > On May 30, 2012, at 2:32 AM, mmayfield wrote: > > > > napolin(at)me.com wrote: > > Mike, > > Extremely low risk is a relative term. > > > I don't know how you have reached that conclusion but I don't think its > true. > > > I reached that conclusion because although there may have been RVs hit by > lightning I'm not aware of any which have been "brought down" by it, or > where pilots have been fried by it. This fact leads me to conclude that the > chances of a lightning strike causing your premature demise while you're > out flying are very low. [Wink] > > On non-certified equipment its anyones guess as to how tolerant these > computers are to lightning As I have stated earlier, I believe your > statement is true for large cockpits with certified equipment, i.e. > airliners, but not true for the small craft we are flying. > > > I disagree. If the uncertified equipment from certain manufacturers is not > at least crafted with fault-tolerant design principles and DO160 in mind, > I'd be a little disappointed and openly wonder why they're inflicting it on > the OBAM community (and why people are buying it). > > > There are document cases in RVs where lightning took out the EFIS, there > are also document cases of damage to instruments due to lightning in many > aircraft. > > > I guess my whole point is: how far do you want to take this? I mean, > fighter pilots don't have metal roofs over their heads either. I've known > of accidents where the pilot has been killed by a birdstrike, a "tree" > strike, a heart attack, GLOC, even by the ricochet of their own explosive > ordnance, but never a lightning strike, even though aircraft get hit now > and again. From the instrument perspective, backup basic flight instruments > of some form (electronic or otherwise) are essential for sure, with an > independent power supply of course. But how far do you want to take > it?[/quote] > > Cheers, > > > -------- > Mike > > Your political opinions are noted. And ignored. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374245#374245 > > > - The RV10-List --> &n========================** > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:31:24 AM PST US From: curtis groote Subject: RV10-List: fuel filter inspection How often does one actually physically remove the fuel filter for inspection? ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:53:10 AM PST US From: Don McDonald Subject: Re: RV10-List: fuel filter inspection If you talk to the mfg, they will tell you that it takes so much crap to actually clog the filter... you take it from there...... also,,,,, I have heard say that probably the most important "year", is the first year... due to the building process.... personally, my first inspection revealed only a very small amount of debris. Don ________________________________ From: curtis groote Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 9:28 AM Subject: RV10-List: fuel filter inspection How often does one actually physically remove the fuel filter for inspection? ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:00:03 AM PST US From: "Rene Felker" Subject: RE: RV10-List: fuel filter inspection I did it the first two inspections..With about 50 hours or so run time...first year, there was something to clean out, second year no much. So I skipped a year..4th year (little over 100 hours run time). Filter was still clean. In my inspection guide I am changing the frequency to every two years or > than 100 hours. Rene' Felker N423CF 801-721-6080 From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of curtis groote Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 8:29 AM Subject: RV10-List: fuel filter inspection How often does one actually physically remove the fuel filter for inspection? ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:17:50 AM PST US From: Dave Saylor Subject: Re: RV10-List: fuel filter inspection Clean the main fuel filter annually, and more often if you fly much more than 100 hours/year. It probably won't show much dirt from year to year, but it's a mistake to assume the build-up is proportional to time. What you're looking for is a big slug of something that got into the fuel tank somehow. That could come from a fuel pump or truck at any time, maybe right after the last time you cleaned the filter. Remember, there's a second filter in the fuel servo, too! Dave Saylor 831-750-0284 CL On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 7:28 AM, curtis groote wrote: > How often does one actually physically remove the fuel filter for > inspection? > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:33:06 AM PST US From: "Albert Gardner" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: IO-540 Slick Mag Made it back to Yuma last night with a repaired mag. I will post details of the problem as soon as I work it out with the supplier of the problem mag. The aviation guys at Albany, OR (S67) are some of the best and were quick to help out. Jay Sluiter-thanks for spending your holiday working with my mag and Larry Hagmeister, thanks for making it flight worthy. Albert Gardner N991RV Yuma, AZ ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:26 AM PST US From: "Pascal" Subject: Re: RV10-List: fuel filter inspection I took mine apart after 40 hours and found minor debris, really almost nothing there. Pascal From: Don McDonald Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 7:50 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: fuel filter inspection If you talk to the mfg, they will tell you that it takes so much crap to actually clog the filter... you take it from there...... also,,,,, I have heard say that probably the most important "year", is the first year... due to the building process.... personally, my first inspection revealed only a very small amount of debris.Don From: curtis groote Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 9:28 AM Subject: RV10-List: fuel filter inspection How often does one actually physically remove the fuel filter for inspection? ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:52 AM PST US From: "DLM" Subject: RE: RV10-List: fuel filter inspection I suspect a lot depends on how well the builder flushes the tanks prior to use. I flushed multiple times before use and found a few small grains at 300 hours in the filter ; I also found a couple of aluminum fragments that clogged the fuel sump drain at about 500 hours.. _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene Felker Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 7:59 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: fuel filter inspection I did it the first two inspections..With about 50 hours or so run time...first year, there was something to clean out, second year no much. So I skipped a year..4th year (little over 100 hours run time). Filter was still clean. In my inspection guide I am changing the frequency to every two years or > than 100 hours. Rene' Felker N423CF 801-721-6080 From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of curtis groote Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 8:29 AM Subject: RV10-List: fuel filter inspection How often does one actually physically remove the fuel filter for inspection? http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:41 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: fuel filter inspection From: Jesse Saint A big slug would be caught by the finger strainer in the tank if it even made it to the wing root. If you are getting leaking tank sumps, that is an indication that there is crud in the bottom of the tank. If you are getting a lot of that, then the filter probably is getting more debris than normal. As was mentioned, Airflow Performance has said that it would be very hard to clog their filter. I check them periodically, but not every year. The most I have ever found in one was a little bit of "lint". do not archive Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 On May 30, 2012, at 11:15 AM, Dave Saylor wrote: > > Clean the main fuel filter annually, and more often if you fly much > more than 100 hours/year. > > It probably won't show much dirt from year to year, but it's a mistake > to assume the build-up is proportional to time. What you're looking > for is a big slug of something that got into the fuel tank somehow. > That could come from a fuel pump or truck at any time, maybe right > after the last time you cleaned the filter. > > Remember, there's a second filter in the fuel servo, too! > > Dave Saylor > 831-750-0284 CL > > > On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 7:28 AM, curtis groote wrote: >> How often does one actually physically remove the fuel filter for >> inspection? >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:55 AM PST US From: Sean Stephens Subject: Re: RV10-List: fuel filter inspection What is the preferred method of flushing the tanks? On 5/30/12 11:01 AM, DLM wrote: > I suspect a lot depends on how well the builder flushes the tanks > prior to use. I flushed multiple times before use and found a few > small grains at 300 hours in the filter ; I also found a couple of > aluminum > fragments that clogged the fuel sump drainat about 500 hours.. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rene Felker > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 30, 2012 7:59 AM > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: fuel filter inspection > > I did it the first two inspectionsWith about 50 hours or so run > time..first year, there was something to clean out, second year no > much. So I skipped a year.4^th year (little over 100 hours run time). > Filter was still clean. In my inspection guide I am changing the > frequency to every two years or > than 100 hours. > > Rene' Felker > > N423CF > > 801-721-6080 > > *From:*owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *curtis groote > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 30, 2012 8:29 AM > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RV10-List: fuel filter inspection > > How often does one actually physically remove the fuel filter for > inspection? > > * * > * * > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > ** > ** > *http://forums.matronics.com* > ** > ** > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > ** > * * > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > * > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:25 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: fuel filter inspection From: Seano My first check was at annual at 200 hours. Only a small amount of lint and a couple of tiny proseal particles. I will check every annual for piece of mind. Sent from my iPhone On May 30, 2012, at 10:22, Jesse Saint wrote: > > A big slug would be caught by the finger strainer in the tank if it even made it to the wing root. If you are getting leaking tank sumps, that is an indication that there is crud in the bottom of the tank. If you are getting a lot of that, then the filter probably is getting more debris than normal. As was mentioned, Airflow Performance has said that it would be very hard to clog their filter. I check them periodically, but not every year. The most I have ever found in one was a little bit of "lint". > > do not archive > > Jesse Saint > Saint Aviation, Inc. > jesse@saintaviation.com > C: 352-427-0285 > F: 815-377-3694 > > On May 30, 2012, at 11:15 AM, Dave Saylor wrote: > >> >> Clean the main fuel filter annually, and more often if you fly much >> more than 100 hours/year. >> >> It probably won't show much dirt from year to year, but it's a mistake >> to assume the build-up is proportional to time. What you're looking >> for is a big slug of something that got into the fuel tank somehow. >> That could come from a fuel pump or truck at any time, maybe right >> after the last time you cleaned the filter. >> >> Remember, there's a second filter in the fuel servo, too! >> >> Dave Saylor >> 831-750-0284 CL >> >> >> On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 7:28 AM, curtis groote wrote: >>> How often does one actually physically remove the fuel filter for >>> inspection? >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:10:27 AM PST US From: "DLM" Subject: RE: RV10-List: fuel filter inspection I used half mineral oil and half aviation gas; five gallons sloshed multiple times into each and drained through the open tank sump hole. Found numerous bits of proseal from QB tanks. Even that did not get it all; also found aluminum shavings which caused the fuel sump to stick open and leak. It was not the O-ring but two small aluminum chips holding the valve partially open. Recommend getting an additional fuel sump valve and O-rings to carry along, since you never know when leak will occur and for what reason. I carry two already O-ringed and fuel lubed to install should a leak occur. It is pretty tough to change one if you do not have a spare. They are just swapped on the fly and you lose a few ounces of gas. Have the new valve and 1/2" wrench ready. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean Stephens Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 9:36 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: fuel filter inspection What is the preferred method of flushing the tanks? On 5/30/12 11:01 AM, DLM wrote: > I suspect a lot depends on how well the builder flushes the tanks > prior to use. I flushed multiple times before use and found a few > small grains at 300 hours in the filter ; I also found a couple of > aluminum fragments that clogged the fuel sump drainat about 500 > hours.. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rene > Felker > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 30, 2012 7:59 AM > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: fuel filter inspection > > I did it the first two inspections..With about 50 hours or so run > time...first year, there was something to clean out, second year no > much. So I skipped a year..4^th year (little over 100 hours run time). > Filter was still clean. In my inspection guide I am changing the > frequency to every two years or > than 100 hours. > > Rene' Felker > > N423CF > > 801-721-6080 > > *From:*owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *curtis > groote > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 30, 2012 8:29 AM > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RV10-List: fuel filter inspection > > How often does one actually physically remove the fuel filter for > inspection? > > * * > * * > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > ** > ** > *http://forums.matronics.com* > ** > ** > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > ** > * * > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matroni > cs.com/Navigator?RV10-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ > c > * > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:22 AM PST US From: "Albert Gardner" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: IO-540 Slick Mag Sorry I misidentified Albany, OR as S67 (Nampa) when it's really S12. Got to meet Rv-10r Ron Terharr but his plane was not on the field. Great paintjob however. Really nice RV-12 there also, looks like RVs are alive and well there. Albert Gardner N991RV Yuma, AZ ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:17:23 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: GRT Panel Layout From: "Bob Turner" Risk analysis is a tricky business, because everything effects everything else. For example, you might encounter a microburst - one that you could have out-climbed except for the extra weight, and slight HP loss, of a vacuum pump. Or the pump's shear shaft could fail to shear when it was supposed to, and a vane breakage and pump jam lead to internal damage and failure of the engine. Or, the finite lifetime of vacuum pumps leads to more frequent work around the engine. Every once in a while the gasket is forgotten, or defective, or over or under torqued, resulting in loss of engine oil and engine seizure. Or the mechanic just leaves a wrench on top of the engine, causing mayhem later. Very low probabilities, for sure. But so, apparently are lightning strikes. With such low statistics it's very hard to say for certain that one approach is more risk adverse than another. But my opinion - just my 2 cents - is that maintenance activities introduce risk, more than lightning does (at least as long as you make an effort to avoid the latter). In point of fact, I think GA would be slightly safer if airframes were only inspected every other year (for aircraft flying less than some amount, say, 300 hours). I think annuals cause more problems than they find. (I'd advocate looking at the engine every year). -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374307#374307 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:11:41 PM PST US From: "ddddsp1@juno.com" Subject: RE: RV10-List: fuel filter inspection Couple of things to keep in mind. First, it only takes a few ounces of bad gas/contaminant to restrict your flow. Your motor will run rough or not at all. Seldom will it plug and let no gas thru. Second, you only have one filter for both tanks, so when the filter restricts flow from right tank, switching to the left will not help. That begs the question..........has anyone put in two filters? One in right tank feed line and one in the left tank feed line..........maybe in wing root and eliminate the one in the tunnel. This would truly give you backup fuel flow if one filter was restricted. Also, DO not trust your eyes to verify filter is clean. We had a plane on the field that landed with symptoms of fuel starvation. They looked at the filter SS mesh 70 micron and it was clean. It had been cleaned/inspected 20 hours earlier. Yet when then did a flow test it was only 45% of normal flow rate. After putting in a new filter, pressure and flow were perfect. Moral of checking/changing fuel filter: Fan on plane not run well with no/low fuel flow! Just my 2cents, Dean Fly safe! ____________________________________________________________ 53 Year Old Mom Looks 33 The Stunning Results of Her Wrinkle Trick Has Botox Doctors Worried http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4fc68c31ad7d7a843e3st05vuc ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:24:46 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: fuel filter inspection From: pilotdds I used two filters one under each seat to hard to get to deep tunnel recess es -----Original Message----- From: ddddsp1 Sent: Wed, May 30, 2012 2:12 pm Subject: RE: RV10-List: fuel filter inspection Couple of things to keep in mind. First, it only takes a few ounces of ba d as/contaminant to restrict your flow. Your motor will run rough or not at all. eldom will it plug and let no gas thru. econd, you only have one filter for both tanks, so when the filter restrict s low from right tank, switching to the left will not help. That begs the uestion..........has anyone put in two filters? One in right tank feed line and ne in the left tank feed line..........maybe in wing root and eliminate the one n the tunnel. This would truly give you backup fuel flow if one filter wa s estricted. Also, DO not trust your eyes to verify filter is clean. We had a plane on the ield that landed with symptoms of fuel starvation. They looked at the filt er S mesh 70 micron and it was clean. It had been cleaned/inspected 20 hours arlier. Yet when then did a flow test it was only 45% of normal flow rate. fter putting in a new filter, pressure and flow were perfect. Moral of checking/changing fuel filter: Fan on plane not run well with o/low fuel flow! Just my 2cents, Dean Fly safe! ____________________________________________________________ 3 Year Old Mom Looks 33 he Stunning Results of Her Wrinkle Trick Has Botox Doctors Worried ttp://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4fc68c31ad7d7a843e3st05vuc -======================== -= - The RV10-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:27:10 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: fuel filter inspection From: Rob Kermanj Prior to first flight, I completely filled up one tank with 5 gal jugs of car gas Then drained the tank into the jugs with an inline glass filter connected to the drain port with a hose. I then used the filtered fuel in the other tank. Found proseal and minor stuff. I then used the filtered gas in my cars. Do not archive Do not archive. Rob Kermanj Sent from my iPad On May 30, 2012, at 12:35 PM, Sean Stephens wrote: > > What is the preferred method of flushing the tanks? > > On 5/30/12 11:01 AM, DLM wrote: >> I suspect a lot depends on how well the builder flushes the tanks prior to use. I flushed multiple times before use and found a few small grains at 300 hours in the filter ; I also found a couple of aluminum >> fragments that clogged the fuel sump drainat about 500 hours.. >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rene Felker >> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 30, 2012 7:59 AM >> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com >> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: fuel filter inspection >> >> I did it the first two inspectionsWith about 50 hours or so run time..first year, there was something to clean out, second year no much. So I skipped a year.4^th year (little over 100 hours run time). Filter was still clean. In my inspection guide I am changing the frequency to every two years or > than 100 hours. >> >> Rene' Felker >> >> N423CF >> >> 801-721-6080 >> >> *From:*owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *curtis groote >> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 30, 2012 8:29 AM >> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com >> *Subject:* RV10-List: fuel filter inspection >> >> How often does one actually physically remove the fuel filter for inspection? >> >> * * >> * * >> ** >> ** >> ** >> ** >> ** >> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* >> ** >> ** >> *http://forums.matronics.com* >> ** >> ** >> ** >> ** >> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* >> ** >> * * >> * >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c >> * >> * >> >> >> * > > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:22:40 PM PST US From: "bob-tcw" Subject: Re: RV10-List: fuel filter inspection I used two filters for the fuel system, one at each wing root. I can inspect and clean them by removing the wing root covers. (which takes all of 10 minutes) I used the andair gas filter/collators, however I decided to NOT put in sump-able drains, but rather plug the bottom fitting. I wanted no chance of ever drawing air in since this part would be in vacuum with respect to outside air pressure, therefore, sucking air means no fuel flow. So far so good. and no need to work inside the tunnel on a regular basis. Regarding cleaning, we have the same filter on our glastar (13 years now), it gets cleaned at every annual condition inspection. Here is a link to pictures in my picasa album with the pictures. https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/30eqPlZJYV9kbhKtAZr5D9MTjNZETYmyPJy 0liipFm0?feat=directlink https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/DdM_Qnx2tIXgNyCIg3bspdMTjNZETYmyPJy 0liipFm0?feat=directlink Bob Newman N541RV ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:05:43 PM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: RV10-List: fuel filter inspection Properly vented your tanks should always be at very close to atmospheric pressure, with any drain point at positive pressure for the head of fuel over it. Thus a vacuum would only occur if the vent became plugged some how. On 5/30/2012 6:20 PM, bob-tcw wrote: > *I used two filters for the fuel system, one at each wing root. I > can inspect and clean them by removing the wing root covers. (which > takes all of 10 minutes) * > *I used the andair gas filter/collators, however I decided to NOT put > in sump-able drains, but rather plug the bottom fitting. I wanted no > chance of ever drawing air in since this part would be in vacuum with > respect to outside air pressure, therefore, sucking air means no fuel > flow. * > ** > So far so good. and no need to work inside the tunnel on a regular basis. > Regarding cleaning, we have the same filter on our glastar (13 years > now), it gets cleaned at every annual condition inspection. > *Here is a link to pictures in my picasa album with the pictures.* > ** > https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/30eqPlZJYV9kbhKtAZr5D9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink > https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/DdM_Qnx2tIXgNyCIg3bspdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink > Bob Newman > N541RV > * > > > * ----- No virus found in this message. 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