Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:19 AM - Re: Urgent: EAA Members - Action! (Tim Lewis)
2. 06:53 AM - Re: Urgent: EAA Members - Action! (Michael Sausen)
3. 07:10 AM - Re: Urgent: EAA Members - Action! (Pascal)
4. 07:12 AM - Re: Urgent: EAA Members - Action! (Pascal)
5. 07:37 AM - Re: new site? why different? (gbrasch)
6. 08:22 AM - Proxy Stuff.. (Phillip Perry)
7. 09:40 AM - Re: Urgent: EAA Members - Action! (gbrasch)
8. 09:53 AM - Re: Re: Urgent: EAA Members - Action! (John Cox)
9. 09:55 AM - Re: Proxy Stuff.. (John Cox)
10. 11:58 AM - Copy of memo (Jerry Hansen)
11. 01:53 PM - Re: Copy of memo (tsts4)
12. 03:43 PM - The most important thread yet... (Phillip Perry)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Urgent: EAA Members - Action! |
A copy of the proxy form, as well as a copy of the proxy/governance
thread that DR deleted, are available in "files" section at
http://www.facebook.com/groups/Members4Members. Feel free to join the
group there.
Proxy forms can be dropped off at the Cleveland Tools display at
AirVenture (thanks, Cleveland).
There's an ongoing discussion of this issue on the EAA Forums:
http://eaaforums.org/showthread.php?1554-EAA-Direction-%28split-from-website-feedback-thread%29
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD -- 1104 hrs - sold
RV-10 N31TD -- 300 hrs
Rene Felker said the following on 7/16/2012 4:40 PM:
>
> I agree Tim....
>
> Now I understand why some of my posts on DR's site have disappeared....I must
have said something nice about a product that is not on the "approved" list.
>
> Do not archive
>
> Rene' Felker
> N423CF
> 801-721-6080
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 2:11 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Urgent: EAA Members - Action!
>
>
> I heard first hand from someone a while back who is a vendor, who was not ever
allowed to post, and had some issues. It seems that anytime someone posted
a "Check out my airplane" review where they told about their product, that whole
thread would be removed, and basically they were later "shaken down"
> and told that nothing, even positive comments on their products from other members,
was acceptable to post (even first-hand reviews by happy customers), unless
you were a paid advertiser.
> The rates for said advertising were surprisingly steep, also.
> I have been told that some of the ads on the main page go for $10,000 (or more...that's
an old number). It bothers me a bit when you can't write something
nice about a product you bought that you liked, just because the vendor hasn't
paid.
> Isn't it always good for the list readers to hear positive or negative reviews
on things?
>
> Beyond that, I'm of the mindset that you either run a site on donations/subscriptions,
you run it on advertising, or you run it on sales, but you pick one
of the 3.
>
> It's a nice forum, but it would be nicer if it weren't so censored. There's
no reason to shutdown a thread like that on the EAA, because clearly on a web
forum style site, the people reading that thread CHOOSE to read it...it's not
being forced into their inbox.
> Shouldn't be threatening to anyone...
>
> Tim
> do not archive
>
> On 7/16/2012 2:48 PM, Michael Sausen wrote:
>> Some things never change over there. This is why when he shut down
>> the old Yahoo forums several of us instead decided to put our support
>> behind Matronics which is truly donation supported vs. the high $$
>> revenue he receives from advertisers. He still passes the tin cup
>> around with the poor ole me and my little website rhetoric while
>> prohibiting anyone that sells a product from contributing to any
>> discussions without coughing up considerably first. I drew the line
>> when my posts were edited, not deleted, edited to remove any criticism
>> of his censoring practices back during the Yahoo days. I probably
>> wouldn t care if he would drop the my site needs your donation BS and
>> just ran it as ad supported like it really is. Glad we were able to
>> keep this group going for open discussion, even if we do get off topic
>> occasionally.
>>
>> Off soapbox :)
>>
>> Do not archive
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> *From:*owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
>> *davidsoutpost@comcast.net
>> *Sent:* Sunday, July 15, 2012 8:09 AM
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Urgent: EAA Members - Action!
>>
>> Looks like DR over on the VansAirforce Forum closed out and put the
>> kybash on any talk of the EAA and its current direction classifying it
>> as "politics" which is against forum rules. What a shame considering
>> it is one of the largest EXPIMENTAL aviation forum's and what better
>> avenue to organize the homebuilder base. Its his sandbox though
>> so,,,,,,,,,,,,.
>>
>> David Clifford
>>
>> RV-10 Builder
>> Howell, MI
>>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Urgent: EAA Members - Action! |
Unfortunately that only works if you have a Facebook account.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Lewis
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 6:13 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Urgent: EAA Members - Action!
A copy of the proxy form, as well as a copy of the proxy/governance thread that DR deleted, are available in "files" section at http://www.facebook.com/groups/Members4Members. Feel free to join the group there.
Proxy forms can be dropped off at the Cleveland Tools display at AirVenture (thanks,
Cleveland).
There's an ongoing discussion of this issue on the EAA Forums:
http://eaaforums.org/showthread.php?1554-EAA-Direction-%28split-from-website-feedback-thread%29
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD -- 1104 hrs - sold
RV-10 N31TD -- 300 hrs
Rene Felker said the following on 7/16/2012 4:40 PM:
>
> I agree Tim....
>
> Now I understand why some of my posts on DR's site have disappeared....I must
have said something nice about a product that is not on the "approved" list.
>
> Do not archive
>
> Rene' Felker
> N423CF
> 801-721-6080
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 2:11 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Urgent: EAA Members - Action!
>
>
> I heard first hand from someone a while back who is a vendor, who was not ever
allowed to post, and had some issues. It seems that anytime someone posted
a "Check out my airplane" review where they told about their product, that whole
thread would be removed, and basically they were later "shaken down"
> and told that nothing, even positive comments on their products from other members,
was acceptable to post (even first-hand reviews by happy customers), unless
you were a paid advertiser.
> The rates for said advertising were surprisingly steep, also.
> I have been told that some of the ads on the main page go for $10,000 (or more...that's
an old number). It bothers me a bit when you can't write something
nice about a product you bought that you liked, just because the vendor hasn't
paid.
> Isn't it always good for the list readers to hear positive or negative reviews
on things?
>
> Beyond that, I'm of the mindset that you either run a site on donations/subscriptions,
you run it on advertising, or you run it on sales, but you pick one
of the 3.
>
> It's a nice forum, but it would be nicer if it weren't so censored. There's
no reason to shutdown a thread like that on the EAA, because clearly on a web
forum style site, the people reading that thread CHOOSE to read it...it's not
being forced into their inbox.
> Shouldn't be threatening to anyone...
>
> Tim
> do not archive
>
> On 7/16/2012 2:48 PM, Michael Sausen wrote:
>> Some things never change over there. This is why when he shut
>> down the old Yahoo forums several of us instead decided to put our
>> support behind Matronics which is truly donation supported vs. the
>> high $$ revenue he receives from advertisers. He still passes the
>> tin cup around with the poor ole me and my little website rhetoric
>> while prohibiting anyone that sells a product from contributing to
>> any discussions without coughing up considerably first. I drew the
>> line when my posts were edited, not deleted, edited to remove any
>> criticism of his censoring practices back during the Yahoo days. I
>> probably wouldn t care if he would drop the my site needs your
>> donation BS and just ran it as ad supported like it really is. Glad
>> we were able to keep this group going for open discussion, even if we
>> do get off topic occasionally.
>>
>> Off soapbox :)
>>
>> Do not archive
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> *From:*owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
>> *davidsoutpost@comcast.net
>> *Sent:* Sunday, July 15, 2012 8:09 AM
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Urgent: EAA Members - Action!
>>
>> Looks like DR over on the VansAirforce Forum closed out and put the
>> kybash on any talk of the EAA and its current direction classifying
>> it as "politics" which is against forum rules. What a shame
>> considering it is one of the largest EXPIMENTAL aviation forum's and
>> what better avenue to organize the homebuilder base. Its his sandbox
>> though so,,,,,,,,,,,,.
>>
>> David Clifford
>>
>> RV-10 Builder
>> Howell, MI
>>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Urgent: EAA Members - Action! |
agree.
Why not put it on rvairspace.com forum?
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Sausen
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 6:52 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Urgent: EAA Members - Action!
Unfortunately that only works if you have a Facebook account.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Lewis
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 6:13 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Urgent: EAA Members - Action!
A copy of the proxy form, as well as a copy of the proxy/governance thread
that DR deleted, are available in "files" section at
http://www.facebook.com/groups/Members4Members. Feel free to join the group
there.
Proxy forms can be dropped off at the Cleveland Tools display at AirVenture
(thanks, Cleveland).
There's an ongoing discussion of this issue on the EAA Forums:
http://eaaforums.org/showthread.php?1554-EAA-Direction-%28split-from-website-feedback-thread%29
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD -- 1104 hrs - sold
RV-10 N31TD -- 300 hrs
Rene Felker said the following on 7/16/2012 4:40 PM:
>
> I agree Tim....
>
> Now I understand why some of my posts on DR's site have disappeared....I
> must have said something nice about a product that is not on the
> "approved" list.
>
> Do not archive
>
> Rene' Felker
> N423CF
> 801-721-6080
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 2:11 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Urgent: EAA Members - Action!
>
>
> I heard first hand from someone a while back who is a vendor, who was not
> ever allowed to post, and had some issues. It seems that anytime someone
> posted a "Check out my airplane" review where they told about their
> product, that whole thread would be removed, and basically they were later
> "shaken down"
> and told that nothing, even positive comments on their products from other
> members, was acceptable to post (even first-hand reviews by happy
> customers), unless you were a paid advertiser.
> The rates for said advertising were surprisingly steep, also.
> I have been told that some of the ads on the main page go for $10,000 (or
> more...that's an old number). It bothers me a bit when you can't write
> something nice about a product you bought that you liked, just because the
> vendor hasn't paid.
> Isn't it always good for the list readers to hear positive or negative
> reviews on things?
>
> Beyond that, I'm of the mindset that you either run a site on
> donations/subscriptions, you run it on advertising, or you run it on
> sales, but you pick one of the 3.
>
> It's a nice forum, but it would be nicer if it weren't so censored.
> There's no reason to shutdown a thread like that on the EAA, because
> clearly on a web forum style site, the people reading that thread CHOOSE
> to read it...it's not being forced into their inbox.
> Shouldn't be threatening to anyone...
>
> Tim
> do not archive
>
> On 7/16/2012 2:48 PM, Michael Sausen wrote:
>> Some things never change over there. This is why when he shut
>> down the old Yahoo forums several of us instead decided to put our
>> support behind Matronics which is truly donation supported vs. the
>> high $$ revenue he receives from advertisers. He still passes the
>> tin cup around with the poor ole me and my little website rhetoric
>> while prohibiting anyone that sells a product from contributing to
>> any discussions without coughing up considerably first. I drew the
>> line when my posts were edited, not deleted, edited to remove any
>> criticism of his censoring practices back during the Yahoo days. I
>> probably wouldn t care if he would drop the my site needs your
>> donation BS and just ran it as ad supported like it really is. Glad
>> we were able to keep this group going for open discussion, even if we
>> do get off topic occasionally.
>>
>> Off soapbox :)
>>
>> Do not archive
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> *From:*owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
>> *davidsoutpost@comcast.net
>> *Sent:* Sunday, July 15, 2012 8:09 AM
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Urgent: EAA Members - Action!
>>
>> Looks like DR over on the VansAirforce Forum closed out and put the
>> kybash on any talk of the EAA and its current direction classifying
>> it as "politics" which is against forum rules. What a shame
>> considering it is one of the largest EXPIMENTAL aviation forum's and
>> what better avenue to organize the homebuilder base. Its his sandbox
>> though so,,,,,,,,,,,,.
>>
>> David Clifford
>>
>> RV-10 Builder
>> Howell, MI
>>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Urgent: EAA Members - Action! |
I missed the link I was referring to
http://forums.rvairspace.com/post/Dissent-in-the-ranks-5917871?trail=30#9
-----Original Message-----
From: Pascal
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 7:09 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Urgent: EAA Members - Action!
agree.
Why not put it on rvairspace.com forum?
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Sausen
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 6:52 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Urgent: EAA Members - Action!
Unfortunately that only works if you have a Facebook account.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Lewis
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 6:13 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Urgent: EAA Members - Action!
A copy of the proxy form, as well as a copy of the proxy/governance thread
that DR deleted, are available in "files" section at
http://www.facebook.com/groups/Members4Members. Feel free to join the group
there.
Proxy forms can be dropped off at the Cleveland Tools display at AirVenture
(thanks, Cleveland).
There's an ongoing discussion of this issue on the EAA Forums:
http://eaaforums.org/showthread.php?1554-EAA-Direction-%28split-from-website-feedback-thread%29
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD -- 1104 hrs - sold
RV-10 N31TD -- 300 hrs
Rene Felker said the following on 7/16/2012 4:40 PM:
>
> I agree Tim....
>
> Now I understand why some of my posts on DR's site have disappeared....I
> must have said something nice about a product that is not on the
> "approved" list.
>
> Do not archive
>
> Rene' Felker
> N423CF
> 801-721-6080
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 2:11 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Urgent: EAA Members - Action!
>
>
> I heard first hand from someone a while back who is a vendor, who was not
> ever allowed to post, and had some issues. It seems that anytime someone
> posted a "Check out my airplane" review where they told about their
> product, that whole thread would be removed, and basically they were later
> "shaken down"
> and told that nothing, even positive comments on their products from other
> members, was acceptable to post (even first-hand reviews by happy
> customers), unless you were a paid advertiser.
> The rates for said advertising were surprisingly steep, also.
> I have been told that some of the ads on the main page go for $10,000 (or
> more...that's an old number). It bothers me a bit when you can't write
> something nice about a product you bought that you liked, just because the
> vendor hasn't paid.
> Isn't it always good for the list readers to hear positive or negative
> reviews on things?
>
> Beyond that, I'm of the mindset that you either run a site on
> donations/subscriptions, you run it on advertising, or you run it on
> sales, but you pick one of the 3.
>
> It's a nice forum, but it would be nicer if it weren't so censored.
> There's no reason to shutdown a thread like that on the EAA, because
> clearly on a web forum style site, the people reading that thread CHOOSE
> to read it...it's not being forced into their inbox.
> Shouldn't be threatening to anyone...
>
> Tim
> do not archive
>
> On 7/16/2012 2:48 PM, Michael Sausen wrote:
>> Some things never change over there. This is why when he shut
>> down the old Yahoo forums several of us instead decided to put our
>> support behind Matronics which is truly donation supported vs. the
>> high $$ revenue he receives from advertisers. He still passes the
>> tin cup around with the poor ole me and my little website rhetoric
>> while prohibiting anyone that sells a product from contributing to
>> any discussions without coughing up considerably first. I drew the
>> line when my posts were edited, not deleted, edited to remove any
>> criticism of his censoring practices back during the Yahoo days. I
>> probably wouldn t care if he would drop the my site needs your
>> donation BS and just ran it as ad supported like it really is. Glad
>> we were able to keep this group going for open discussion, even if we
>> do get off topic occasionally.
>>
>> Off soapbox :)
>>
>> Do not archive
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> *From:*owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
>> *davidsoutpost@comcast.net
>> *Sent:* Sunday, July 15, 2012 8:09 AM
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Urgent: EAA Members - Action!
>>
>> Looks like DR over on the VansAirforce Forum closed out and put the
>> kybash on any talk of the EAA and its current direction classifying
>> it as "politics" which is against forum rules. What a shame
>> considering it is one of the largest EXPIMENTAL aviation forum's and
>> what better avenue to organize the homebuilder base. Its his sandbox
>> though so,,,,,,,,,,,,.
>>
>> David Clifford
>>
>> RV-10 Builder
>> Howell, MI
>>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: new site? why different? |
Someone directed me to this thread. I started my site as an alternative. I expect
people will use both sites, but my philosophy is different, and is reflected
in the site "rules", or lack thereof. I was asked if I would delete the thread
about EAA that has started. I will not. My only favor that I have consistently
asked users is to register. Advertisers look at that. My site has tens
of thousands of unregistered users each month. Do me a favor and register
with at least a first name and location. I hope you enjoy the site and use it
to it's full benefit to you. Tailwinds, Glenn Brasch
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378794#378794
Message 6
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I don't want to clog the airwaves this close to AirVenture, after all we
all should be talking about airplanes and making plans meeting on the field.
Personally I think we've pretty much done everything we can reasonably do
between now and the time AirVenture closes. My concern is that the several
folks are looking forward to the business meeting like a 'High Noon' duel
on main street. We've collected enough proxy votes in 2 weeks to make a
reasonable statement and express our concerns. We can do it in a
respectful manner and see how EAA chooses to respond. I'm hopeful they
will accept the proxy's and provide better methods that allow all EAA
members to participate in elections.
For those of you who would like to know what statement we're trying to
make, you can find the message I posted on the EAA forums below. It
summarizes the campaign exactly.
Lets go have some to Oshkosh and have some fun. Hopefully Saturday's
meeting is just a short 1 hour detour to get the members voices formally
documented on paper at the meeting.
See you in a few days,
Phil
=======================
Hi Everyone,
I am the individual who volunteered to represent the group of VAF members
initially, as well as anyone else who would like to participate in the
election this year. This thread was brought to my attention by a friend of
mine, so I apologize for not joining in earlier.
FloridaJohn did a really nice job of providing the complete
history<http://eaaforums.org/showthread.php?1554-EAA-Direction-%28split-from-website-feedback-thread%29&p=19539&viewfull=1#post19539>up
to this point. He also identified the turning point that riled up the
VAF members and that is simply the ability to participate in an election.
There are a number of policy issues that are debatable among EAA members.
Some of those are even embedded in this thread such as the 20 year
requirement. The thing about policy is that it can be debated until the sun
goes down and no one will ever win the discussion. There are reasonable
merits on both sides of any policy debate and those are better left in the
hands of the Board of Directors. The reality is that we, as EAA members,
simply can't write (or re-write) policy in a way that is convenient to each
of us.
However, as members of the organization, we all (well almost all - you have
to be 18 years old) have the right to participate in the election of the
Board of Directors. So it's our responsibility as members, both satisfied
and dissatisfied, to elect board members that we believe will best serve
our needs as members of the organization. Any policy decision can be
debated publicly but it can (and should) only be made by the BOD members
that we elect to represent us.
Today, EAA members have 3 choices to participate in the election:
1) They can simply not participate; or
2) They can assign their vote to the leadership team of EAA; or
3) They can show up in person and vote for the specific candidates they
believe best represent their interests.
The fourth option is missing and that is simply allowing all EAA members
(who can't attend in person) an opportunity to cast their own voting
ballots electronically.
I will attempt to put it in the simplest terms....... If an EAA member's
vote is valuable enough to assign to the leadership team, or if a member's
vote is valuable enough to be counted when they attend the meeting in
person, then *ALL* member's votes are of equal value and should be
accounted for at the time of election.
I should stop right here and not put blame on Mr. Hightower for this
either. This hole in the voting membership is something that pre-dates his
arrival at the helm of EAA. He should, however, be made aware of the
inequity of votes that does currently exist. No EAA member's vote should
count more than any other member's vote, and today there is discrimination
between members who can attend in person and those who can not.
To ease the minds of many of you, we aren't going to have enough proxy
signatures to impact this election in any way, shape, or form. However we
will have enough signatures to express concern about these inequities and
shine a spotlight on a key issue that all EAA members should be concerned
with.
With regards to the proxy forms, you should know that this isn't a great
position to be put in. However I know it's the right thing to do and I
promised my peer EAA members that I would represent them at the annual
meeting. I'm a man of my word and will represent them in a reasonable and
professional manner. I am hopeful that others who choose to attend the
meeting will do so in a respectful manner too.
On a side note, none of you should let this collection of proxy forms
overshadow your time at AirVenture. AirVenture is our event. It is our
opportunity to meet other members, to make new friends, to learn about the
latest developments in aviation. As birds of a feather, it is our
opportunity to flock together and we are fortunate to have such a terrific
place to do it. The business meeting on Saturday isn't the highlight of the
show and it shouldn't be something everyone is focusing their eyes on. So
go, have fun, relax, and be a kid for a week. I'm planning on enjoying
myself catching up with old friends, making new ones, and hanging out with
airplanes.
Hopefully that explains what the proxy collection effort is about and how
we're campaigning to bring all EAA members the freedom to participate in a
truly democratic election.
Thanks,
Phil
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Urgent: EAA Members - Action! |
Someone directed me to this thread. I started my site as an alternative. I expect
people will use both sites, but my philosophy is different, and is reflected
in the site "rules", or lack thereof. I was asked if I would delete the thread
about EAA that has started. I will not. My only favor that I have consistently
asked users is to register. Advertisers look at that. My site has tens of
thousands of unregistered users each month. Do me a favor and register with at
least a first name and location. I hope you enjoy the site and use it to it's
full benefit to you. Tailwinds, Glenn Brasch RVairspace.com
--------
Glenn Brasch
RV-9A Finishing #90623, O-360
1953 Piper Tri-Pacer
A-Star Medevac Driver
Tucson, Arizona
www.RVairspace.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378800#378800
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Urgent: EAA Members - Action! |
Glenn. THANK YOU.
John Cox 40600.
On Jul 20, 2012 9:44 AM, "gbrasch" <gmbrasch@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Someone directed me to this thread. I started my site as an alternative. I
> expect people will use both sites, but my philosophy is different, and is
> reflected in the site "rules", or lack thereof. I was asked if I would
> delete the thread about EAA that has started. I will not. My only favor
> that I have consistently asked users is to register. Advertisers look at
> that. My site has tens of thousands of unregistered users each month. Do me
> a favor and register with at least a first name and location. I hope you
> enjoy the site and use it to it's full benefit to you. Tailwinds, Glenn
> Brasch RVairspace.com
>
> --------
> Glenn Brasch
> RV-9A Finishing #90623, O-360
> 1953 Piper Tri-Pacer
> A-Star Medevac Driver
> Tucson, Arizona
>
> www.RVairspace.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378800#378800
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Proxy Stuff.. |
Heading to The Big Show with my Lifetime member proxy for you.
Johnny Horizon
On Jul 20, 2012 8:24 AM, "Phillip Perry" <philperry9@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't want to clog the airwaves this close to AirVenture, after all we
> all should be talking about airplanes and making plans meeting on the fie
ld.
>
> Personally I think we've pretty much done everything we can reasonably do
> between now and the time AirVenture closes. My concern is that the sever
al
> folks are looking forward to the business meeting like a 'High Noon' duel
> on main street. We've collected enough proxy votes in 2 weeks to make a
> reasonable statement and express our concerns. We can do it in a
> respectful manner and see how EAA chooses to respond. I'm hopeful they
> will accept the proxy's and provide better methods that allow all EAA
> members to participate in elections.
>
> For those of you who would like to know what statement we're trying to
> make, you can find the message I posted on the EAA forums below. It
> summarizes the campaign exactly.
>
> Lets go have some to Oshkosh and have some fun. Hopefully Saturday's
> meeting is just a short 1 hour detour to get the members voices formally
> documented on paper at the meeting.
>
> See you in a few days,
> Phil
>
>
> =======================
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I am the individual who volunteered to represent the group of VAF members
> initially, as well as anyone else who would like to participate in the
> election this year. This thread was brought to my attention by a friend o
f
> mine, so I apologize for not joining in earlier.
>
> FloridaJohn did a really nice job of providing the complete history<http:
//eaaforums.org/showthread.php?1554-EAA-Direction-%28split-from-website-fee
dback-thread%29&p=19539&viewfull=1#post19539>up to this point. He also
identified the turning point that riled up the
> VAF members and that is simply the ability to participate in an election.
>
> There are a number of policy issues that are debatable among EAA members.
> Some of those are even embedded in this thread such as the 20 year
> requirement. The thing about policy is that it can be debated until the s
un
> goes down and no one will ever win the discussion. There are reasonable
> merits on both sides of any policy debate and those are better left in th
e
> hands of the Board of Directors. The reality is that we, as EAA members,
> simply can't write (or re-write) policy in a way that is convenient to ea
ch
> of us.
>
> However, as members of the organization, we all (well almost all - you
> have to be 18 years old) have the right to participate in the election of
> the Board of Directors. So it's our responsibility as members, both
> satisfied and dissatisfied, to elect board members that we believe will
> best serve our needs as members of the organization. Any policy decision
> can be debated publicly but it can (and should) only be made by the BOD
> members that we elect to represent us.
>
> Today, EAA members have 3 choices to participate in the election:
> 1) They can simply not participate; or
> 2) They can assign their vote to the leadership team of EAA; or
> 3) They can show up in person and vote for the specific candidates they
> believe best represent their interests.
>
> The fourth option is missing and that is simply allowing all EAA members
> (who can't attend in person) an opportunity to cast their own voting
> ballots electronically.
>
> I will attempt to put it in the simplest terms....... If an EAA member's
> vote is valuable enough to assign to the leadership team, or if a member'
s
> vote is valuable enough to be counted when they attend the meeting in
> person, then *ALL* member's votes are of equal value and should be
> accounted for at the time of election.
>
> I should stop right here and not put blame on Mr. Hightower for this
> either. This hole in the voting membership is something that pre-dates hi
s
> arrival at the helm of EAA. He should, however, be made aware of the
> inequity of votes that does currently exist. No EAA member's vote should
> count more than any other member's vote, and today there is discriminatio
n
> between members who can attend in person and those who can not.
>
> To ease the minds of many of you, we aren't going to have enough proxy
> signatures to impact this election in any way, shape, or form. However we
> will have enough signatures to express concern about these inequities and
> shine a spotlight on a key issue that all EAA members should be concerned
> with.
>
> With regards to the proxy forms, you should know that this isn't a great
> position to be put in. However I know it's the right thing to do and I
> promised my peer EAA members that I would represent them at the annual
> meeting. I'm a man of my word and will represent them in a reasonable and
> professional manner. I am hopeful that others who choose to attend the
> meeting will do so in a respectful manner too.
>
> On a side note, none of you should let this collection of proxy forms
> overshadow your time at AirVenture. AirVenture is our event. It is our
> opportunity to meet other members, to make new friends, to learn about th
e
> latest developments in aviation. As birds of a feather, it is our
> opportunity to flock together and we are fortunate to have such a terrifi
c
> place to do it. The business meeting on Saturday isn't the highlight of t
he
> show and it shouldn't be something everyone is focusing their eyes on. So
> go, have fun, relax, and be a kid for a week. I'm planning on enjoying
> myself catching up with old friends, making new ones, and hanging out wit
h
> airplanes.
>
> Hopefully that explains what the proxy collection effort is about and how
> we're campaigning to bring all EAA members the freedom to participate in
a
> truly democratic election.
>
> Thanks,
> Phil
>
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
Message 10
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The Coming Battle for the Heart of the EAA - by Doug Kelly
In recent weeks, I have become aware of strong and widespread feelings of
concern for the future of our national organization. A minimal amount of
investigation disclosed that these sentiments are being expressed by a
rapidly increasing number of members, particularly in the homebuilding,
vintage and volunteer communities. It is an issue that apparently is
emerging all across the nation and is evoking an organized response. An
initial effort will be made to generate a protest via proxy votes cast at
the annual membership meeting at AirVenture 2012. Likely this will be only
an opening salvo in a longer dispute.
While probably symbolic at first, this action is an important effort to
alert the EAA Board of Directors to the depth of dissatisfaction with new
directions and priorities as expressed in publications, and by sudden
changes to a previously loyal staff.
In my view, this is a crisis a long time in the making. The stage has been
set because there never has been a solid structural mechanism for member
representation in the EAA. After Paul's early and deft leadership, which was
based largely on his personal touch, Tom led the organization in the
direction of emphasis on show, spectacle, and commercial visibility.
Gradually the Board became dominated by corporate interests and big-time
fund raising prospects. As a result, AirVenture's success each year now
accounts for at least one third of the annual budget. Donations (ostensibly
to support educational programs) account for at least another third.
Person-power to actually make AirVenture run is largely dependent on a
graying and, surprisingly, less happy volunteer corps. AirVenture has become
an international extravaganza and cash cow that succeeds in wowing the
public and commercial interests but is far more fragile than is generally
recognized.
The Board has struggled (1) to define itself appropriately, and (2) to
locate a successor to Tom. To my way of thinking, it has not succeeded in
either challenge.
I watched for a decade as each year the annual membership meeting was
attended by an ever smaller handful of members, and one or two sought
bravely to utilize the "election" system, hoping to become members of the
Board. Their efforts were almost always effectively thwarted by selection
practices within the existing board structure so that very few who truly
represented member interests survived the ritual. In truth, I know of only
one or two examples of success. The various Councils (including the one on
which I served as chairman) give the illusion of member representation but
are, in fact, appointed and now mostly tasked with volunteer functions to
help make AirVenture run. Their chairpersons are nominal board members but
limited essentially to observer status. There is no structure to assure that
the traditional purposes of EAA have a voice in its future (namely
homebuilding, restoration, craftsmanship, and above all, safe practices in
construction, maintenance and operation of recreational aircraft). Thus, the
balance of power has been swung largely toward achieving commercial success
rather than promoting educational/recreational goals. Our hobby is being
screwed over.
Thus, we have come to the point where the EAA Board and its executive and
selection committees have now provided us EAA members with a new leader who
apparently has little regard for the roots of our organization or the wisdom
to weave them into the future. The bottom line is the bottom line and the
member is the market. He refers to our avocation as "our industry" and
anticipates our loyalty. Please!
The movement to gain input via a proxy procedure has little chance of
success this year, but it is very important for the powers that be to get a
message that this is, after all, a nonprofit organization dedicated to the
proper education of its members. I, for one, strongly object to the sudden
and arbitrary shifts in policy, publication and staffing that have changed
the focus from the unique and traditional to the mundane, spectacular and
commercially profitable. I hope you agree.
You can help by supporting the proxy effort this year. If you attend
AirVenture, you can obtain a proxy form at the Cleaveland Tool exhibit
(assuming you didn't surrender your proxy option when you renewed your
membership). More importantly, do continue your membership so as to be able
to help the movement as it grows in the next year or two. This isn't a quick
and dirty venture.
Doug Kelly
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Copy of memo |
Well put. Another thing we can do to help send the message is to become members
of the Sport Aviation Association (SAA). I suggest that membership should be
"in addition to" and not "in lieu of" your EAA membership, at least for the
time being. I've attached a copy of the SAA flyer that was in my EAA Chapter's
July newsletter that has all the details for those that are interested.
--------
Todd Stovall
728TT (reserved)
RV-10 Empacone, Wings, Fuse
www.mykitlog.com/auburntsts
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378817#378817
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/saa_148.docx
Message 12
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| Subject: | The most important thread yet... |
For those of you taking to the air over the next 48 hours.... Stay safe.
We'd like to have a good time once we're there and we're looking forward to
having a good time with you.
Respectfully,
The RV-10 crowd
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