Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:29 AM - Re: Shudder/shimmy on landing (bill.peyton)
2. 06:07 AM - Re: RV-10 Battery (Bob Leffler)
3. 06:25 AM - Re: Shudder/shimmy on landing (curtis groote)
4. 06:31 AM - Re: RV-10 Battery (David Leikam)
5. 06:43 AM - Re: Re: Shudder/shimmy on landing (Alan Mekler MD)
6. 07:28 AM - Re: RV-10 Battery (johngoodman)
7. 07:53 AM - Re: Shudder/shimmy on landing (Tim Lewis)
8. 08:59 AM - Re: RV-10 Battery ()
9. 09:14 AM - Re: Shudder/shimmy on landing (Scott Schmidt)
10. 09:44 AM - Re: Shudder/shimmy on landing (Dave Saylor)
11. 09:54 AM - Re: Shudder/shimmy on landing (johngoodman)
12. 10:06 AM - Re: Trip out West (Roxanne and Mike Lefever)
13. 10:18 AM - Re: Re: Shudder/shimmy on landing (Alan Mekler MD)
14. 11:10 AM - Re: Re: Shudder/shimmy on landing (David Leikam)
15. 11:23 AM - Re: Re: Shudder/shimmy on landing (Alan Mekler MD)
16. 12:00 PM - Re: Re: Main gear shudder revisited (retread tires) (Marcus Cooper)
17. 12:00 PM - Re: Re: Shudder/shimmy on landing (Seano)
18. 12:06 PM - Re: Re: Shudder/shimmy on landing (Carl Froehlich)
19. 12:23 PM - Re: Trip out West (Preid)
20. 02:51 PM - Re: Shudder/shimmy on landing (Chris)
21. 04:16 PM - Re: Shudder/shimmy on landing (bill.peyton)
22. 04:59 PM - Re: Re: Shudder/shimmy on landing (g.combs)
23. 06:33 PM - Re: Re: Main gear shudder revisited (retread tires) (Kelly McMullen)
24. 06:46 PM - Re: Re: Main gear shudder revisited (retread tires) (Tim Olson)
25. 06:58 PM - Re: Re: Main gear shudder revisited (retread tires) (Kelly McMullen)
26. 07:21 PM - Re: Re: Main gear shudder revisited (retread tires) (Preid)
27. 08:16 PM - Re: Shudder/shimmy on landing (David Leikam)
28. 08:26 PM - Re: Shudder/shimmy on landing/ brakes/tires and other stuff I want to talk about (Seano)
29. 09:15 PM - Re: Re: Main gear shudder revisited (retread tires) ()
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Shudder/shimmy on landing |
The truly right thing to do would be to have Vans address this issue with a newly
designed strut! Of course the chance of that happening is 0 to none!
--------
Bill
WA0SYV
Aviation Partners, LLC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381222#381222
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Battery |
Bohanon Batteries in Florida has good pricing and free shipping.
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 19, 2012, at 2:16 AM, Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> If it's an Odyssey and not the stock Concord, then the "small" one is
> a PC680, the "big" one is a PC925--unless like me you did the
> installation backwards and need the terminals reversed, then it's a
> PC925L.
>
> West Coast Batteries has a great web site, great service, and better
> prices than Spruce:
>
> http://www.odysseybatteries.com
>
> Might be worth a look!
>
> Dave Saylor
> 831-750-0284 CL
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 11:00 PM, <ibspud@roadrunner.com> wrote:
>>
>> I need to order a batter for my RV-10 but don't remember the no. It's the Oddessy
PC960 or something like that as I recall. Can anyone give the correct battery
no.?
>> Albert Gardner
>> N991RV
>> Yuma, AZ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Shudder/shimmy on landing |
I'm definitely interested in an aftermarket gear leg stiffener.=0A=0A-"Al
l shuddered out" Curt
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Battery |
Here is what I use. Turn it sideways and it fits right in the standard battery
tray.
http://www.bandc.biz/sealedrgrecombinantgasbattery12v25ah.aspx
Dave Leikam
On Aug 19, 2012, at 1:00 AM, <ibspud@roadrunner.com> <ibspud@roadrunner.com> wrote:
>
> I need to order a batter for my RV-10 but don't remember the no. It's the Oddessy
PC960 or something like that as I recall. Can anyone give the correct battery
no.?
> Albert Gardner
> N991RV
> Yuma, AZ
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Shudder/shimmy on landing |
Hopefully Steve will make one available for us if there is enough demand.
Alan
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 19, 2012, at 9:25 AM, curtis groote <cgroote1@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I'm definitely interested in an aftermarket gear leg stiffener.
>
> "All shuddered out" Curt
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Battery |
The B&C is actually a Recombinant Gas battery, while the Odysseys are Absorbed
Glass Matt - as apposed to Gel. Technically, they are all related to VRLAs. Frankly,
it's all magic to me....
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381237#381237
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| Subject: | Re: Shudder/shimmy on landing |
Sean,
Thanks for relating your experience. It's encouraging to hear that worked.
I remember doing something similar on my RV-6A gear legs 15 years ago as
part of the per-plans construction. Although I gave the plans to the
new owner when I sold the plane, I was able to find the relevant section
in the preview plans. For anybody who is interested, here's a link to
that portion of the RV-6 plans:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93114308/Wood%20Shimmy%20Damper.pdf
Tim
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD -- 1104 hrs - sold
RV-10 N31TD -- 340 hrs
Seano said the following on 8/18/2012 2:05 PM:
>
> Tim,
>
> I fiberglassed oak stiffeners on the back of my gear legs. They fit inside the
fairing and are basically triangle shaped and milled to fit on the round tapered
gear leg. They have really helped with the shimmy. Mine started around 30
kias.
> If I'm really light and by myself I feel a little shimmy but much less than ever
before the stiffeners. If I have any passengers with me or cargo I have no
shimmy at all with the stiffeners. Before it would shimmy in any configuration.
> You can try what I did an that was using strapping tape first to try then out.
After it worked I prosealed the woo to the gear leg then glasses them in using
a spiral technique with 3" glass tape.
>
> Good luck
> I might be delivering a CJ to Manassas at the end of the month.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 18, 2012, at 11:35, Tim Lewis <TimRVator@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Like many RV-10s (apparently), mine shudders during the landing rollout. Mine
starts when decelerating through 35-40 knots (or so) on landing. The speed
range at which the shudder occurs is only a small number of knots - less than
5 knot range I think, so the shudder phase stops pretty quickly during deceleration.
Hard braking may make the shudder more intense.
>>
>> Based on the successful experiences reported by Tim Olson and others, I bought the Marc Parnes DU42 wheel balancer (http://www.marcparnes.com/Ducati_Motorcycle_Wheel_Balancer.htm#DU42), and used that to balance all my wheels. The DU42 is very nice piece of equipment -- surprisingly sensitive.
>>
>> http://www.marcparnes.com/Ducati_Motorcycle_Wheel_Balancer.htm#DU42
>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93114308/ParnesOnStands.JPG
>>
>> It took a significant amount of weight to balance the wheels (several 1/4oz
weights on each wheel). From what I've read, others have had this same experience.
>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93114308/TireWts.JPG
>>
>> I also installed the planearound.com Wheel Fairing Bracket Spacers to stiffen
up the wheel fairing attachment to the main gear. The planearound product is
well made, fit fine, and really does stiffen up the wheel fairing bracket attachment.
>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93114308/PlaneAround1.JPG
>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93114308/PlaneAroundInstalled.JPG
>>
>> Results: No discernible change in landing roll out behavior. I still get about
the same shudder on roll out. Perhaps the onset speed has been raised a
small number of knots as a result of balancing and adding the brackets, but I'm
not sure about that.
>>
>> I'm not sure what else to try.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> --
>> Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
>> RV-6A N47TD -- 1104 hrs - sold
>> RV-10 N31TD -- 340 hrs
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Battery |
Thanks a lot for the help. Ordered one from West Coast Batteries. For some reason
previous battery suddenly went dead just before a flight. Couldn't recharge
it to more than 4 volts. Some time before I had installed a Piper plug in my
baggage compartment bulkhead so that I could jump start the engine if necessary.
After I was unable to charge the battery I put a car battery in the baggage
compartment and used jumper cables so I could continue the flight. I understand
the baggage. Compartment bulkhead is structural and required for flight.
Albert Gardner
N991RV
Yuma, AZ
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Shudder/shimmy on landing |
Tim, I have done everything you have as well as realigned my gear to exactly 1.5
degrees of toe-in. I talked with Van and he recommended the wood on the gear.
It is a design problem for sure. A round gear is not optimal but is cheap to manufacture.
I think the real fix is a total redesign of the gear leg. What I would like to
see is a titanium, composite or aluminum gear shaped in a rectangle like the Cirrus
or RV-8 taildragger.
I believe the Cirrus gear is composite. I think you could reduce the weight by
50% which would add around 50 lbs to the useful load and eliminate the shimmy.
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 19, 2012, at 8:52 AM, Tim Lewis <TimRVator@comcast.net> wrote:
> Sean,
>
> Thanks for relating your experience. It's encouraging to hear that worked.
>
> I remember doing something similar on my RV-6A gear legs 15 years ago as part
of the per-plans construction. Although I gave the plans to the new owner when
I sold the plane, I was able to find the relevant section in the preview plans.
For anybody who is interested, here's a link to that portion of the RV-6
plans:
>
> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93114308/Wood%20Shimmy%20Damper.pdf
>
> Tim
>
> --
> Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
> RV-6A N47TD -- 1104 hrs - sold
> RV-10 N31TD -- 340 hrs
>
> Seano said the following on 8/18/2012 2:05 PM:
>>
>> Tim,
>>
>> I fiberglassed oak stiffeners on the back of my gear legs. They fit inside the
fairing and are basically triangle shaped and milled to fit on the round tapered
gear leg. They have really helped with the shimmy. Mine started around 30
kias.
>> If I'm really light and by myself I feel a little shimmy but much less than
ever before the stiffeners. If I have any passengers with me or cargo I have no
shimmy at all with the stiffeners. Before it would shimmy in any configuration.
>> You can try what I did an that was using strapping tape first to try then out.
After it worked I prosealed the woo to the gear leg then glasses them in using
a spiral technique with 3" glass tape.
>>
>> Good luck
>> I might be delivering a CJ to Manassas at the end of the month.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Aug 18, 2012, at 11:35, Tim Lewis <TimRVator@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Like many RV-10s (apparently), mine shudders during the landing rollout. Mine
starts when decelerating through 35-40 knots (or so) on landing. The speed
range at which the shudder occurs is only a small number of knots - less than
5 knot range I think, so the shudder phase stops pretty quickly during deceleration.
Hard braking may make the shudder more intense.
>>>
>>> Based on the successful experiences reported by Tim Olson and others, I bought the Marc Parnes DU42 wheel balancer (http://www.marcparnes.com/Ducati_Motorcycle_Wheel_Balancer.htm#DU42), and used that to balance all my wheels. The DU42 is very nice piece of equipment -- surprisingly sensitive.
>>>
>>> http://www.marcparnes.com/Ducati_Motorcycle_Wheel_Balancer.htm#DU42
>>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93114308/ParnesOnStands.JPG
>>>
>>> It took a significant amount of weight to balance the wheels (several 1/4oz
weights on each wheel). From what I've read, others have had this same experience.
>>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93114308/TireWts.JPG
>>>
>>> I also installed the planearound.com Wheel Fairing Bracket Spacers to stiffen
up the wheel fairing attachment to the main gear. The planearound product
is well made, fit fine, and really does stiffen up the wheel fairing bracket attachment.
>>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93114308/PlaneAround1.JPG
>>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93114308/PlaneAroundInstalled.JPG
>>>
>>> Results: No discernible change in landing roll out behavior. I still get
about the same shudder on roll out. Perhaps the onset speed has been raised a
small number of knots as a result of balancing and adding the brackets, but I'm
not sure about that.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure what else to try.
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
>>> RV-6A N47TD -- 1104 hrs - sold
>>> RV-10 N31TD -- 340 hrs
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> <Wood Shimmy Damper.pdf>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Shudder/shimmy on landing |
I asked Robby Grove about aluminum legs for the -10. He said the
cross section where they fit into the socket just doesn't provide
enough area for aluminum. So it would be a fairly complex task to
either modify the socket to accept a rectangular leg or create some
kind of adapter to make the changeover outside of the socket. And
leaving the biggest part of the leg in steel with the rest in some
lighter material kind of defeats the purpose.
I agree though, it seems like there must be something better. I'm
just not sure I'd want to be the guinea pig if means a broken gear
leg.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 9:13 AM, Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Tim, I have done everything you have as well as realigned my gear to exactly
1.5 degrees of toe-in. I talked with Van and he recommended the wood on the gear.
> It is a design problem for sure. A round gear is not optimal but is cheap to
manufacture.
>
> I think the real fix is a total redesign of the gear leg. What I would like to
see is a titanium, composite or aluminum gear shaped in a rectangle like the
Cirrus or RV-8 taildragger.
> I believe the Cirrus gear is composite. I think you could reduce the weight by
50% which would add around 50 lbs to the useful load and eliminate the shimmy.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Aug 19, 2012, at 8:52 AM, Tim Lewis <TimRVator@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Sean,
>>
>> Thanks for relating your experience. It's encouraging to hear that worked.
>>
>> I remember doing something similar on my RV-6A gear legs 15 years ago as part
of the per-plans construction. Although I gave the plans to the new owner when
I sold the plane, I was able to find the relevant section in the preview plans.
For anybody who is interested, here's a link to that portion of the RV-6
plans:
>>
>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93114308/Wood%20Shimmy%20Damper.pdf
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> --
>> Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
>> RV-6A N47TD -- 1104 hrs - sold
>> RV-10 N31TD -- 340 hrs
>>
>> Seano said the following on 8/18/2012 2:05 PM:
>>>
>>> Tim,
>>>
>>> I fiberglassed oak stiffeners on the back of my gear legs. They fit inside
the fairing and are basically triangle shaped and milled to fit on the round tapered
gear leg. They have really helped with the shimmy. Mine started around
30 kias.
>>> If I'm really light and by myself I feel a little shimmy but much less than
ever before the stiffeners. If I have any passengers with me or cargo I have
no shimmy at all with the stiffeners. Before it would shimmy in any configuration.
>>> You can try what I did an that was using strapping tape first to try then out.
After it worked I prosealed the woo to the gear leg then glasses them in using
a spiral technique with 3" glass tape.
>>>
>>> Good luck
>>> I might be delivering a CJ to Manassas at the end of the month.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Aug 18, 2012, at 11:35, Tim Lewis <TimRVator@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Like many RV-10s (apparently), mine shudders during the landing rollout.
Mine starts when decelerating through 35-40 knots (or so) on landing. The speed
range at which the shudder occurs is only a small number of knots - less than
5 knot range I think, so the shudder phase stops pretty quickly during deceleration.
Hard braking may make the shudder more intense.
>>>>
>>>> Based on the successful experiences reported by Tim Olson and others, I bought the Marc Parnes DU42 wheel balancer (http://www.marcparnes.com/Ducati_Motorcycle_Wheel_Balancer.htm#DU42), and used that to balance all my wheels. The DU42 is very nice piece of equipment -- surprisingly sensitive.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.marcparnes.com/Ducati_Motorcycle_Wheel_Balancer.htm#DU42
>>>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93114308/ParnesOnStands.JPG
>>>>
>>>> It took a significant amount of weight to balance the wheels (several 1/4oz
weights on each wheel). From what I've read, others have had this same experience.
>>>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93114308/TireWts.JPG
>>>>
>>>> I also installed the planearound.com Wheel Fairing Bracket Spacers to stiffen
up the wheel fairing attachment to the main gear. The planearound product
is well made, fit fine, and really does stiffen up the wheel fairing bracket
attachment.
>>>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93114308/PlaneAround1.JPG
>>>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93114308/PlaneAroundInstalled.JPG
>>>>
>>>> Results: No discernible change in landing roll out behavior. I still get
about the same shudder on roll out. Perhaps the onset speed has been raised
a small number of knots as a result of balancing and adding the brackets, but
I'm not sure about that.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure what else to try.
>>>>
>>>> Tim
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
>>>> RV-6A N47TD -- 1104 hrs - sold
>>>> RV-10 N31TD -- 340 hrs
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> <Wood Shimmy Damper.pdf>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Shudder/shimmy on landing |
Going back to the original issue, I have experienced the 35-45k shimmy in another
RV-10, but never in mine. I seriously doubt that stiffening the legs is a cure,
only mitigates a symptom.
As far as why I don't have any shimmy, I haven't a clue. I can point out that I
detest pants and have never put them on. I faired up everything without them
and I'm content. It's tempting to suggest the pants, but I know that's not the
issue. Obviously, wheel balancing didn't solve it, so it's something else. I
have the better nose axle - as do most folks, so that's probably not it.
I have several thoughts that should be explored. The first is Tire Pressure. Incredibly,
my tires have not lost a single pound of air pressure in the year+ that
I've been flying it. 42 on the mains and 40 on the nose. They are stock Van's
tires and tubes. The tires are showing no wear. The smoking gun to me is the
outside wear so many have experienced. Could it be that the tires are "scrubbing"
on their outside edges due to some sort of "pronation or supination"? If
the main axle was "toed in or out" a little (I mean something very small), I
could envision a "scrubbing" issue. At higher speeds, the tires would simply
sand themselves on the runway, and at slow speeds the flexibility of the rubber
would compensate for the scrub, and not be felt. If my theory holds any water
at all, the transition between the sanding to the scrubbing is at 40 knots,
or so.
IF, my theory is true (I'm no expert), then that would suggest the culprit is the
bolt in the main mount. Without referring to the plans, I remember I needed
a 7.9mm drill bit for that. I bought one and used it on mine. Van obviously wanted
a close tolerance so the main couldn't move at all. If you used a 5/16"
bit, you would have 0.0015" of slop. It sounds incredibly small but could it be
enough?
Anyway, it's the only thing I've come up with so far.
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381253#381253
Message 12
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|
and also just FYI be cautious about your density altitude..........I have a
lways thought Prescott was a little deceiving because visually it is lower
than the distant mountains surrounding but its at 5000 ft. and its hot out
here.
> Date: Sat=2C 18 Aug 2012 20:13:04 -0700
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Trip out West
> From: apilot2@gmail.com
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Well=2C I'll presume that you are changing planes in Phoenix to some
> small aircraft to fly to Prescott. Not that it matters. Bell DeRouchey
> and John Ackerman are in Prescott=2C may be others. Both have been
> flying for sometime.
> As for fuel stops=2C I'll assume you are starting full. On southern
> route=2C first cheap spot is Lordsburg NM at 5.15 a gal. In the past I
> have used PEQ=2C Pecos=2C as a fuel and overnight stop.
> If you elect to stay north=2C St Johns is cheapest in AZ. BGD in TX
> panhandle is good overnight stop and usually cheap fuel with courtesy
> car available. Altus OK isn't too bad for overnight=2C IIRC had to get
> ride from FBO to motel and back.
>
> On Sat=2C Aug 18=2C 2012 at 5:46 PM=2C Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.c
om> wrote:
> >
> > I'm going to be flying (big aluminum tube) to Prescott=2C AZ on Wednesd
ay morning=2C then flying back (little cessna spam can) from there to Birmi
ngham. Is anybody in the Prescott=2C AZ area or Dallas=2C TX area? Any reco
mmendations for fuel stops and/or routes that I should follow? Any projects
that I could take a look at?
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> > Jesse Saint
> > Saint Aviation=2C Inc.
> > jesse@saintaviation.com
> > C: 352-427-0285
> > F: 815-377-3694
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Shudder/shimmy on landing |
I have the shimmy and abnormal tire wear now apparent after 150 hrs. ( mostlty
short flights-ie alot of landings)Shimmy seems a little worse now.
It appears to me that the shimmy has caused the abnormal tire wear and the abnormal
tire wear makes the shimmy worse.
Alan
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 19, 2012, at 12:54 PM, "johngoodman" <johngoodman@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Going back to the original issue, I have experienced the 35-45k shimmy in another
RV-10, but never in mine. I seriously doubt that stiffening the legs is a
cure, only mitigates a symptom.
> As far as why I don't have any shimmy, I haven't a clue. I can point out that
I detest pants and have never put them on. I faired up everything without them
and I'm content. It's tempting to suggest the pants, but I know that's not the
issue. Obviously, wheel balancing didn't solve it, so it's something else.
I have the better nose axle - as do most folks, so that's probably not it.
>
> I have several thoughts that should be explored. The first is Tire Pressure.
Incredibly, my tires have not lost a single pound of air pressure in the year+
that I've been flying it. 42 on the mains and 40 on the nose. They are stock
Van's tires and tubes. The tires are showing no wear. The smoking gun to me is
the outside wear so many have experienced. Could it be that the tires are "scrubbing"
on their outside edges due to some sort of "pronation or supination"?
If the main axle was "toed in or out" a little (I mean something very small),
I could envision a "scrubbing" issue. At higher speeds, the tires would simply
sand themselves on the runway, and at slow speeds the flexibility of the rubber
would compensate for the scrub, and not be felt. If my theory holds any water
at all, the transition between the sanding to the scrubbing is at 40 knots,
or so.
>
> IF, my theory is true (I'm no expert), then that would suggest the culprit is
the bolt in the main mount. Without referring to the plans, I remember I needed
a 7.9mm drill bit for that. I bought one and used it on mine. Van obviously
wanted a close tolerance so the main couldn't move at all. If you used a 5/16"
bit, you would have 0.0015" of slop. It sounds incredibly small but could it
be enough?
>
> Anyway, it's the only thing I've come up with so far.
>
> John
>
> --------
> #40572 Phase One complete and flying.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381253#381253
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Shudder/shimmy on landing |
Why no issue on take off, only landing?
Dave Leikam
On Aug 19, 2012, at 11:54 AM, johngoodman wrote:
>
> Going back to the original issue, I have experienced the 35-45k shimmy in another
RV-10, but never in mine. I seriously doubt that stiffening the legs is a
cure, only mitigates a symptom.
> As far as why I don't have any shimmy, I haven't a clue. I can point out that
I detest pants and have never put them on. I faired up everything without them
and I'm content. It's tempting to suggest the pants, but I know that's not the
issue. Obviously, wheel balancing didn't solve it, so it's something else.
I have the better nose axle - as do most folks, so that's probably not it.
>
> I have several thoughts that should be explored. The first is Tire Pressure.
Incredibly, my tires have not lost a single pound of air pressure in the year+
that I've been flying it. 42 on the mains and 40 on the nose. They are stock
Van's tires and tubes. The tires are showing no wear. The smoking gun to me is
the outside wear so many have experienced. Could it be that the tires are "scrubbing"
on their outside edges due to some sort of "pronation or supination"?
If the main axle was "toed in or out" a little (I mean something very small),
I could envision a "scrubbing" issue. At higher speeds, the tires would simply
sand themselves on the runway, and at slow speeds the flexibility of the rubber
would compensate for the scrub, and not be felt. If my theory holds any water
at all, the transition between the sanding to the scrubbing is at 40 knots,
or so.
>
> IF, my theory is true (I'm no expert), then that would suggest the culprit is
the bolt in the main mount. Without referring to the plans, I remember I needed
a 7.9mm drill bit for that. I bought one and used it on mine. Van obviously
wanted a close tolerance so the main couldn't move at all. If you used a 5/16"
bit, you would have 0.0015" of slop. It sounds incredibly small but could it
be enough?
>
> Anyway, it's the only thing I've come up with so far.
>
> John
>
> --------
> #40572 Phase One complete and flying.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381253#381253
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Shudder/shimmy on landing |
I think on take off you pass through the shudder speed so quickly you don't notice
it.
Alan
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 19, 2012, at 2:09 PM, David Leikam <arplnplt@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Why no issue on take off, only landing?
>
> Dave Leikam
>
> On Aug 19, 2012, at 11:54 AM, johngoodman wrote:
>
>>
>> Going back to the original issue, I have experienced the 35-45k shimmy in another
RV-10, but never in mine. I seriously doubt that stiffening the legs is
a cure, only mitigates a symptom.
>> As far as why I don't have any shimmy, I haven't a clue. I can point out that
I detest pants and have never put them on. I faired up everything without them
and I'm content. It's tempting to suggest the pants, but I know that's not
the issue. Obviously, wheel balancing didn't solve it, so it's something else.
I have the better nose axle - as do most folks, so that's probably not it.
>>
>> I have several thoughts that should be explored. The first is Tire Pressure.
Incredibly, my tires have not lost a single pound of air pressure in the year+
that I've been flying it. 42 on the mains and 40 on the nose. They are stock
Van's tires and tubes. The tires are showing no wear. The smoking gun to me is
the outside wear so many have experienced. Could it be that the tires are "scrubbing"
on their outside edges due to some sort of "pronation or supination"?
If the main axle was "toed in or out" a little (I mean something very small),
I could envision a "scrubbing" issue. At higher speeds, the tires would simply
sand themselves on the runway, and at slow speeds the flexibility of the rubber
would compensate for the scrub, and not be felt. If my theory holds any water
at all, the transition between the sanding to the scrubbing is at 40 knots,
or so.
>>
>> IF, my theory is true (I'm no expert), then that would suggest the culprit is
the bolt in the main mount. Without referring to the plans, I remember I needed
a 7.9mm drill bit for that. I bought one and used it on mine. Van obviously
wanted a close tolerance so the main couldn't move at all. If you used a 5/16"
bit, you would have 0.0015" of slop. It sounds incredibly small but could it
be enough?
>>
>> Anyway, it's the only thing I've come up with so far.
>>
>> John
>>
>> --------
>> #40572 Phase One complete and flying.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381253#381253
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: Main gear shudder revisited (retread tires) |
Just curious which model Dresser retreads you guys are using? I'm
thinking about going that route on the next tire change.
Thanks,
Marcus
do not archive
On May 22, 2012, at 2:28 AM, David Maib <dmaib@me.com> wrote:
I've tried everything from 40 to 50 psi with no noticeable difference. I
changed to the Desser retreads with leak guard tubes when the original
Van's tires were worn out. Again, no noticeable change. I have balanced
carefully, but makes no difference. I get a shake starting at about 15
knots GS and it goes away at about 18 or 19 knots. Seems a bit more
noticeable when braking hard on landing, but no real repeatable set of
conditions. Sometimes, it doesn't shake at all. Video camera on the
belly of the airplane confirmed right main gear is the culprit on my
airplane.
David Maib
RV-10 Transition Trainer
40559
On May 22, 2012, at 1:24 AM, ddddsp1@juno.com wrote:
just curious,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,what air pressure you guys running in
your mains? Also do you still have the original vans tires?
Dean
____________________________________________________________
53 Year Old Mom Looks 33
The Stunning Results of Her Wrinkle Trick Has Botox Doctors Worried
consumerproducts.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Shudder/shimmy on landing |
I concur
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 19, 2012, at 12:23, Alan Mekler MD <amekler@metrocast.net> wrote:
>
> I think on take off you pass through the shudder speed so quickly you don't notice
it.
> Alan
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 19, 2012, at 2:09 PM, David Leikam <arplnplt@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Why no issue on take off, only landing?
>>
>> Dave Leikam
>>
>> On Aug 19, 2012, at 11:54 AM, johngoodman wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Going back to the original issue, I have experienced the 35-45k shimmy in another
RV-10, but never in mine. I seriously doubt that stiffening the legs is
a cure, only mitigates a symptom.
>>> As far as why I don't have any shimmy, I haven't a clue. I can point out that
I detest pants and have never put them on. I faired up everything without them
and I'm content. It's tempting to suggest the pants, but I know that's not
the issue. Obviously, wheel balancing didn't solve it, so it's something else.
I have the better nose axle - as do most folks, so that's probably not it.
>>>
>>> I have several thoughts that should be explored. The first is Tire Pressure.
Incredibly, my tires have not lost a single pound of air pressure in the year+
that I've been flying it. 42 on the mains and 40 on the nose. They are stock
Van's tires and tubes. The tires are showing no wear. The smoking gun to me
is the outside wear so many have experienced. Could it be that the tires are "scrubbing"
on their outside edges due to some sort of "pronation or supination"?
If the main axle was "toed in or out" a little (I mean something very small),
I could envision a "scrubbing" issue. At higher speeds, the tires would simply
sand themselves on the runway, and at slow speeds the flexibility of the rubber
would compensate for the scrub, and not be felt. If my theory holds any
water at all, the transition between the sanding to the scrubbing is at 40 knots,
or so.
>>>
>>> IF, my theory is true (I'm no expert), then that would suggest the culprit
is the bolt in the main mount. Without referring to the plans, I remember I needed
a 7.9mm drill bit for that. I bought one and used it on mine. Van obviously
wanted a close tolerance so the main couldn't move at all. If you used a 5/16"
bit, you would have 0.0015" of slop. It sounds incredibly small but could
it be enough?
>>>
>>> Anyway, it's the only thing I've come up with so far.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> --------
>>> #40572 Phase One complete and flying.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381253#381253
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: Shudder/shimmy on landing |
At 35 hours I again greased the nose fork and adjusted the tension. As
someone suggested, I drilled another hole perhaps 30 degrees off the current
hole as the tension was either too tight or too loose using the existing
hole. This significantly reduced the shudder. I am also using the
replacement nose wheel bearing - and recommend it. All tires have been
balanced.
On the 8A I noted a significant reduction in shudder after I replaced the
main gear tires.
Carl
38 hours.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan Mekler MD
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 2:23 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Shudder/shimmy on landing
I think on take off you pass through the shudder speed so quickly you don't
notice it.
Alan
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 19, 2012, at 2:09 PM, David Leikam <arplnplt@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Why no issue on take off, only landing?
>
> Dave Leikam
>
> On Aug 19, 2012, at 11:54 AM, johngoodman wrote:
>
>> --> <johngoodman@earthlink.net>
>>
>> Going back to the original issue, I have experienced the 35-45k shimmy in
another RV-10, but never in mine. I seriously doubt that stiffening the legs
is a cure, only mitigates a symptom.
>> As far as why I don't have any shimmy, I haven't a clue. I can point out
that I detest pants and have never put them on. I faired up everything
without them and I'm content. It's tempting to suggest the pants, but I know
that's not the issue. Obviously, wheel balancing didn't solve it, so it's
something else. I have the better nose axle - as do most folks, so that's
probably not it.
>>
>> I have several thoughts that should be explored. The first is Tire
Pressure. Incredibly, my tires have not lost a single pound of air pressure
in the year+ that I've been flying it. 42 on the mains and 40 on the nose.
They are stock Van's tires and tubes. The tires are showing no wear. The
smoking gun to me is the outside wear so many have experienced. Could it be
that the tires are "scrubbing" on their outside edges due to some sort of
"pronation or supination"? If the main axle was "toed in or out" a little (I
mean something very small), I could envision a "scrubbing" issue. At higher
speeds, the tires would simply sand themselves on the runway, and at slow
speeds the flexibility of the rubber would compensate for the scrub, and not
be felt. If my theory holds any water at all, the transition between the
sanding to the scrubbing is at 40 knots, or so.
>>
>> IF, my theory is true (I'm no expert), then that would suggest the
culprit is the bolt in the main mount. Without referring to the plans, I
remember I needed a 7.9mm drill bit for that. I bought one and used it on
mine. Van obviously wanted a close tolerance so the main couldn't move at
all. If you used a 5/16" bit, you would have 0.0015" of slop. It sounds
incredibly small but could it be enough?
>>
>> Anyway, it's the only thing I've come up with so far.
>>
>> John
>>
>> --------
>> #40572 Phase One complete and flying.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381253#381253
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: Trip out West |
How about between FL and TX for overnight and fuel? With kids, no big city
Tx
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 18, 2012, at 8:13 PM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Well, I'll presume that you are changing planes in Phoenix to some
> small aircraft to fly to Prescott. Not that it matters. Bell DeRouchey
> and John Ackerman are in Prescott, may be others. Both have been
> flying for sometime.
> As for fuel stops, I'll assume you are starting full. On southern
> route, first cheap spot is Lordsburg NM at 5.15 a gal. In the past I
> have used PEQ, Pecos, as a fuel and overnight stop.
> If you elect to stay north, St Johns is cheapest in AZ. BGD in TX
> panhandle is good overnight stop and usually cheap fuel with courtesy
> car available. Altus OK isn't too bad for overnight, IIRC had to get
> ride from FBO to motel and back.
>
> On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 5:46 PM, Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'm going to be flying (big aluminum tube) to Prescott, AZ on Wednesday morning,
then flying back (little cessna spam can) from there to Birmingham. Is anybody
in the Prescott, AZ area or Dallas, TX area? Any recommendations for fuel
stops and/or routes that I should follow? Any projects that I could take a look
at?
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> Jesse Saint
>> Saint Aviation, Inc.
>> jesse@saintaviation.com
>> C: 352-427-0285
>> F: 815-377-3694
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Shudder/shimmy on landing |
And the RV-14 has main gear with rectangular cross section...they finally listened.
-Chris
N919AR
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Shudder/shimmy on landing
--> <dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com>
I asked Robby Grove about aluminum legs for the -10. He said the cross section
where they fit into the socket just doesn't provide enough area for aluminum.
So it would be a fairly complex task to either modify the socket to accept a
rectangular leg or create some kind of adapter to make the changeover outside
of the socket. And leaving the biggest part of the leg in steel with the rest
in some lighter material kind of defeats the purpose.
I agree though, it seems like there must be something better. I'm just not sure
I'd want to be the guinea pig if means a broken gear leg.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 9:13 AM, Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> <scottmschmidt@yahoo.com>
>
> Tim, I have done everything you have as well as realigned my gear to exactly
1.5 degrees of toe-in. I talked with Van and he recommended the wood on the gear.
> It is a design problem for sure. A round gear is not optimal but is cheap to
manufacture.
>
> I think the real fix is a total redesign of the gear leg. What I would like to
see is a titanium, composite or aluminum gear shaped in a rectangle like the
Cirrus or RV-8 taildragger.
> I believe the Cirrus gear is composite. I think you could reduce the weight by
50% which would add around 50 lbs to the useful load and eliminate the shimmy.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Aug 19, 2012, at 8:52 AM, Tim Lewis <TimRVator@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Sean,
>>
>> Thanks for relating your experience. It's encouraging to hear that worked.
>>
>> I remember doing something similar on my RV-6A gear legs 15 years ago as part
of the per-plans construction. Although I gave the plans to the new owner when
I sold the plane, I was able to find the relevant section in the preview plans.
For anybody who is interested, here's a link to that portion of the RV-6
plans:
>>
>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93114308/Wood%20Shimmy%20Damper.pdf
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> --
>> Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
>> RV-6A N47TD -- 1104 hrs - sold
>> RV-10 N31TD -- 340 hrs
>>
>> Seano said the following on 8/18/2012 2:05 PM:
>>>
>>> Tim,
>>>
>>> I fiberglassed oak stiffeners on the back of my gear legs. They fit inside
the fairing and are basically triangle shaped and milled to fit on the round tapered
gear leg. They have really helped with the shimmy. Mine started around
30 kias.
>>> If I'm really light and by myself I feel a little shimmy but much less than
ever before the stiffeners. If I have any passengers with me or cargo I have
no shimmy at all with the stiffeners. Before it would shimmy in any configuration.
>>> You can try what I did an that was using strapping tape first to try then out.
After it worked I prosealed the woo to the gear leg then glasses them in using
a spiral technique with 3" glass tape.
>>>
>>> Good luck
>>> I might be delivering a CJ to Manassas at the end of the month.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Aug 18, 2012, at 11:35, Tim Lewis <TimRVator@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Like many RV-10s (apparently), mine shudders during the landing rollout.
Mine starts when decelerating through 35-40 knots (or so) on landing. The speed
range at which the shudder occurs is only a small number of knots - less than
5 knot range I think, so the shudder phase stops pretty quickly during deceleration.
Hard braking may make the shudder more intense.
>>>>
>>>> Based on the successful experiences reported by Tim Olson and others, I bought the Marc Parnes DU42 wheel balancer (http://www.marcparnes.com/Ducati_Motorcycle_Wheel_Balancer.htm#DU42), and used that to balance all my wheels. The DU42 is very nice piece of equipment -- surprisingly sensitive.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.marcparnes.com/Ducati_Motorcycle_Wheel_Balancer.htm#DU42
>>>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93114308/ParnesOnStands.JPG
>>>>
>>>> It took a significant amount of weight to balance the wheels (several 1/4oz
weights on each wheel). From what I've read, others have had this same experience.
>>>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93114308/TireWts.JPG
>>>>
>>>> I also installed the planearound.com Wheel Fairing Bracket Spacers to stiffen
up the wheel fairing attachment to the main gear. The planearound product
is well made, fit fine, and really does stiffen up the wheel fairing bracket
attachment.
>>>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93114308/PlaneAround1.JPG
>>>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93114308/PlaneAroundInstalled.JPG
>>>>
>>>> Results: No discernible change in landing roll out behavior. I still get
about the same shudder on roll out. Perhaps the onset speed has been raised
a small number of knots as a result of balancing and adding the brackets, but
I'm not sure about that.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure what else to try.
>>>>
>>>> Tim
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
>>>> RV-6A N47TD -- 1104 hrs - sold
>>>> RV-10 N31TD -- 340 hrs
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> <Wood Shimmy Damper.pdf>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Shudder/shimmy on landing |
Is the shimmy caused by only the main gear, or does the nose gear have the same
issue? I recall seeing a video of the nose gear, but not the mains.. I also
recall Geoff Combs telling me that he did not have this shudder until he attached
the wheel pants.
--------
Bill
WA0SYV
Aviation Partners, LLC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381287#381287
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Shudder/shimmy on landing |
Bill was correct about my gear shimmy. It showed up after wheel pants were installed.
The wheel pants are really what cause it or should I say make it finally
show up or make it worse. I video taped my gear and the wheel pants shake. I
never had it until wheel pants were installed. I had over 60 hours on airplane
before pants installed.
Geoff
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 19, 2012, at 7:15 PM, "bill.peyton" <peyton.b@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> Is the shimmy caused by only the main gear, or does the nose gear have the same
issue? I recall seeing a video of the nose gear, but not the mains.. I also
recall Geoff Combs telling me that he did not have this shudder until he attached
the wheel pants.
>
> --------
> Bill
> WA0SYV
> Aviation Partners, LLC
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381287#381287
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: Main gear shudder revisited (retread tires) |
I bought the standard Desser re-treads. I've been using them for over
10 years on my Mooney with good wear and no problems.
On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 11:59 AM, Marcus Cooper <coop85@verizon.net> wrote:
> Just curious which model Desser retreads you guys are using? I'm thinking
> about going that route on the next tire change.
>
> Thanks,
> Marcus
>
> do not archive
> On May 22, 2012, at 2:28 AM, David Maib <dmaib@me.com> wrote:
>
> I've tried everything from 40 to 50 psi with no noticeable difference. I
> changed to the Desser retreads with leak guard tubes when the original Van's
> tires were worn out. Again, no noticeable change. I have balanced carefully,
> but makes no difference. I get a shake starting at about 15 knots GS and it
> goes away at about 18 or 19 knots. Seems a bit more noticeable when braking
> hard on landing, but no real repeatable set of conditions. Sometimes, it
> doesn't shake at all. Video camera on the belly of the airplane confirmed
> right main gear is the culprit on my airplane.
>
> David Maib
> RV-10 Transition Trainer
> 40559
>
> On May 22, 2012, at 1:24 AM, ddddsp1@juno.com wrote:
>
> just curious,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,what air pressure you guys running in your
> mains? Also do you still have the original vans tires?
>
> Dean
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> 53 Year Old Mom Looks 33
> The Stunning Results of Her Wrinkle Trick Has Botox Doctors Worried
> consumerproducts.com
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Main gear shudder revisited (retread tires) |
The 15/600-6's are called "High Performance Retreads" when I order them.
Tim
On Aug 19, 2012, at 8:32 PM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I bought the standard Desser re-treads. I've been using them for over
> 10 years on my Mooney with good wear and no problems.
>
> On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 11:59 AM, Marcus Cooper <coop85@verizon.net> wrote:
>> Just curious which model Desser retreads you guys are using? I'm thinking
>> about going that route on the next tire change.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Marcus
>>
>> do not archive
>> On May 22, 2012, at 2:28 AM, David Maib <dmaib@me.com> wrote:
>>
>> I've tried everything from 40 to 50 psi with no noticeable difference. I
>> changed to the Desser retreads with leak guard tubes when the original Van's
>> tires were worn out. Again, no noticeable change. I have balanced carefully,
>> but makes no difference. I get a shake starting at about 15 knots GS and it
>> goes away at about 18 or 19 knots. Seems a bit more noticeable when braking
>> hard on landing, but no real repeatable set of conditions. Sometimes, it
>> doesn't shake at all. Video camera on the belly of the airplane confirmed
>> right main gear is the culprit on my airplane.
>>
>> David Maib
>> RV-10 Transition Trainer
>> 40559
>>
>> On May 22, 2012, at 1:24 AM, ddddsp1@juno.com wrote:
>>
>> just curious,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,what air pressure you guys running in your
>> mains? Also do you still have the original vans tires?
>>
>> Dean
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> 53 Year Old Mom Looks 33
>> The Stunning Results of Her Wrinkle Trick Has Botox Doctors Worried
>> consumerproducts.com
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: Main gear shudder revisited (retread tires) |
Yes, you are correct...I didn't go look for the latest marketing name
On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 6:45 PM, Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com> wrote:
>
> The 15/600-6's are called "High Performance Retreads" when I order them.
> Tim
>
>
> On Aug 19, 2012, at 8:32 PM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> I bought the standard Desser re-treads. I've been using them for over
>> 10 years on my Mooney with good wear and no problems.
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 11:59 AM, Marcus Cooper <coop85@verizon.net> wrote:
>>> Just curious which model Desser retreads you guys are using? I'm thinking
>>> about going that route on the next tire change.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Marcus
>>>
>>> do not archive
>>> On May 22, 2012, at 2:28 AM, David Maib <dmaib@me.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I've tried everything from 40 to 50 psi with no noticeable difference. I
>>> changed to the Desser retreads with leak guard tubes when the original Van's
>>> tires were worn out. Again, no noticeable change. I have balanced carefully,
>>> but makes no difference. I get a shake starting at about 15 knots GS and it
>>> goes away at about 18 or 19 knots. Seems a bit more noticeable when braking
>>> hard on landing, but no real repeatable set of conditions. Sometimes, it
>>> doesn't shake at all. Video camera on the belly of the airplane confirmed
>>> right main gear is the culprit on my airplane.
>>>
>>> David Maib
>>> RV-10 Transition Trainer
>>> 40559
>>>
>>> On May 22, 2012, at 1:24 AM, ddddsp1@juno.com wrote:
>>>
>>> just curious,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,what air pressure you guys running in your
>>> mains? Also do you still have the original vans tires?
>>>
>>> Dean
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> 53 Year Old Mom Looks 33
>>> The Stunning Results of Her Wrinkle Trick Has Botox Doctors Worried
>>> consumerproducts.com
>>>
>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: Main gear shudder revisited (retread tires) |
If you go to the RV-10 section of desser They have the retreads for the rear. There
is a10% discount if you get the tires and leakproof tubes( with valve angle)
package.
On Aug 19, 2012, at 6:32 PM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I bought the standard Desser re-treads. I've been using them for over
> 10 years on my Mooney with good wear and no problems.
>
> On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 11:59 AM, Marcus Cooper <coop85@verizon.net> wrote:
>> Just curious which model Desser retreads you guys are using? I'm thinking
>> about going that route on the next tire change.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Marcus
>>
>> do not archive
>> On May 22, 2012, at 2:28 AM, David Maib <dmaib@me.com> wrote:
>>
>> I've tried everything from 40 to 50 psi with no noticeable difference. I
>> changed to the Desser retreads with leak guard tubes when the original Van's
>> tires were worn out. Again, no noticeable change. I have balanced carefully,
>> but makes no difference. I get a shake starting at about 15 knots GS and it
>> goes away at about 18 or 19 knots. Seems a bit more noticeable when braking
>> hard on landing, but no real repeatable set of conditions. Sometimes, it
>> doesn't shake at all. Video camera on the belly of the airplane confirmed
>> right main gear is the culprit on my airplane.
>>
>> David Maib
>> RV-10 Transition Trainer
>> 40559
>>
>> On May 22, 2012, at 1:24 AM, ddddsp1@juno.com wrote:
>>
>> just curious,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,what air pressure you guys running in your
>> mains? Also do you still have the original vans tires?
>>
>> Dean
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> 53 Year Old Mom Looks 33
>> The Stunning Results of Her Wrinkle Trick Has Botox Doctors Worried
>> consumerproducts.com
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: Shudder/shimmy on landing |
How many have NOT had any outside tire wear after 150 hours or so? I just flipped
and re-balanced my tires and wheels after 166 hours. The outside of my tires
were worn so I could not see the grooves.
I had the shimmy but now it is only when I let the nose wheel touch after landing.
So I just re-balanced the nose wheel and will test tomorrow.
Dave leikam
On Aug 19, 2012, at 4:50 PM, Chris wrote:
>
> And the RV-14 has main gear with rectangular cross section...they finally listened.
> -Chris
> N919AR
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor
> Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 12:44 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Shudder/shimmy on landing
>
> --> <dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com>
>
> I asked Robby Grove about aluminum legs for the -10. He said the cross section
where they fit into the socket just doesn't provide enough area for aluminum.
So it would be a fairly complex task to either modify the socket to accept
a rectangular leg or create some kind of adapter to make the changeover outside
of the socket. And leaving the biggest part of the leg in steel with the rest
in some lighter material kind of defeats the purpose.
>
> I agree though, it seems like there must be something better. I'm just not sure
I'd want to be the guinea pig if means a broken gear leg.
>
> Dave Saylor
> 831-750-0284 CL
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 9:13 AM, Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> --> <scottmschmidt@yahoo.com>
>>
>> Tim, I have done everything you have as well as realigned my gear to exactly
1.5 degrees of toe-in. I talked with Van and he recommended the wood on the gear.
>> It is a design problem for sure. A round gear is not optimal but is cheap to
manufacture.
>>
>> I think the real fix is a total redesign of the gear leg. What I would like
to see is a titanium, composite or aluminum gear shaped in a rectangle like the
Cirrus or RV-8 taildragger.
>> I believe the Cirrus gear is composite. I think you could reduce the weight
by 50% which would add around 50 lbs to the useful load and eliminate the shimmy.
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Aug 19, 2012, at 8:52 AM, Tim Lewis <TimRVator@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Sean,
>>>
>>> Thanks for relating your experience. It's encouraging to hear that worked.
>>>
>>> I remember doing something similar on my RV-6A gear legs 15 years ago as part
of the per-plans construction. Although I gave the plans to the new owner
when I sold the plane, I was able to find the relevant section in the preview
plans. For anybody who is interested, here's a link to that portion of the RV-6
plans:
>>>
>>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93114308/Wood%20Shimmy%20Damper.pdf
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
>>> RV-6A N47TD -- 1104 hrs - sold
>>> RV-10 N31TD -- 340 hrs
>>>
>>> Seano said the following on 8/18/2012 2:05 PM:
>>>>
>>>> Tim,
>>>>
>>>> I fiberglassed oak stiffeners on the back of my gear legs. They fit inside
the fairing and are basically triangle shaped and milled to fit on the round
tapered gear leg. They have really helped with the shimmy. Mine started around
30 kias.
>>>> If I'm really light and by myself I feel a little shimmy but much less than
ever before the stiffeners. If I have any passengers with me or cargo I have
no shimmy at all with the stiffeners. Before it would shimmy in any configuration.
>>>> You can try what I did an that was using strapping tape first to try then
out. After it worked I prosealed the woo to the gear leg then glasses them in
using a spiral technique with 3" glass tape.
>>>>
>>>> Good luck
>>>> I might be delivering a CJ to Manassas at the end of the month.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 18, 2012, at 11:35, Tim Lewis <TimRVator@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Like many RV-10s (apparently), mine shudders during the landing rollout.
Mine starts when decelerating through 35-40 knots (or so) on landing. The speed
range at which the shudder occurs is only a small number of knots - less
than 5 knot range I think, so the shudder phase stops pretty quickly during deceleration.
Hard braking may make the shudder more intense.
>>>>>
>>>>> Based on the successful experiences reported by Tim Olson and others, I bought the Marc Parnes DU42 wheel balancer (http://www.marcparnes.com/Ducati_Motorcycle_Wheel_Balancer.htm#DU42), and used that to balance all my wheels. The DU42 is very nice piece of equipment -- surprisingly sensitive.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.marcparnes.com/Ducati_Motorcycle_Wheel_Balancer.htm#DU42
>>>>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93114308/ParnesOnStands.JPG
>>>>>
>>>>> It took a significant amount of weight to balance the wheels (several 1/4oz
weights on each wheel). From what I've read, others have had this same experience.
>>>>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93114308/TireWts.JPG
>>>>>
>>>>> I also installed the planearound.com Wheel Fairing Bracket Spacers to stiffen
up the wheel fairing attachment to the main gear. The planearound product
is well made, fit fine, and really does stiffen up the wheel fairing bracket
attachment.
>>>>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93114308/PlaneAround1.JPG
>>>>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93114308/PlaneAroundInstalled.JPG
>>>>>
>>>>> Results: No discernible change in landing roll out behavior. I still get
about the same shudder on roll out. Perhaps the onset speed has been raised
a small number of knots as a result of balancing and adding the brackets, but
I'm not sure about that.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure what else to try.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tim
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
>>>>> RV-6A N47TD -- 1104 hrs - sold
>>>>> RV-10 N31TD -- 340 hrs
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> <Wood Shimmy Damper.pdf>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: Shudder/shimmy on landing/ brakes/tires and other stuff |
I want to talk about
I am changing mine out now to the dessers. I have 250 hours on the
originals and they look pretty bad. My original pads are now close enough
to the rivets so I'm changing those too.
I was bummed out about my stem on my nose wheel so I bought the right rim
from Matco and three new leakproof tubes with the proper valve stems.
I'll see if my shimmy is still good with the stiffeners AND the new tires.
Also started to get some brake drag on the left caliper. Noticed the slop
on the pins and a little rubbing on the caliper from the edge of the rotor.
Anyone else notice this?
I may talk to Matco about aftermarket brake parts.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Leikam" <arplnplt@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 9:15 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Shudder/shimmy on landing
>
> How many have NOT had any outside tire wear after 150 hours or so? I just
> flipped and re-balanced my tires and wheels after 166 hours. The outside
> of my tires were worn so I could not see the grooves.
> I had the shimmy but now it is only when I let the nose wheel touch after
> landing. So I just re-balanced the nose wheel and will test tomorrow.
>
> Dave leikam
>
> On Aug 19, 2012, at 4:50 PM, Chris wrote:
>
>>
>> And the RV-14 has main gear with rectangular cross section...they finally
>> listened.
>> -Chris
>> N919AR
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor
>> Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 12:44 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Shudder/shimmy on landing
>>
>> --> <dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com>
>>
>> I asked Robby Grove about aluminum legs for the -10. He said the cross
>> section where they fit into the socket just doesn't provide enough area
>> for aluminum. So it would be a fairly complex task to either modify the
>> socket to accept a rectangular leg or create some kind of adapter to make
>> the changeover outside of the socket. And leaving the biggest part of
>> the leg in steel with the rest in some lighter material kind of defeats
>> the purpose.
>>
>> I agree though, it seems like there must be something better. I'm just
>> not sure I'd want to be the guinea pig if means a broken gear leg.
>>
>> Dave Saylor
>> 831-750-0284 CL
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 9:13 AM, Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>> --> <scottmschmidt@yahoo.com>
>>>
>>> Tim, I have done everything you have as well as realigned my gear to
>>> exactly 1.5 degrees of toe-in. I talked with Van and he recommended the
>>> wood on the gear.
>>> It is a design problem for sure. A round gear is not optimal but is
>>> cheap to manufacture.
>>>
>>> I think the real fix is a total redesign of the gear leg. What I would
>>> like to see is a titanium, composite or aluminum gear shaped in a
>>> rectangle like the Cirrus or RV-8 taildragger.
>>> I believe the Cirrus gear is composite. I think you could reduce the
>>> weight by 50% which would add around 50 lbs to the useful load and
>>> eliminate the shimmy.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On Aug 19, 2012, at 8:52 AM, Tim Lewis <TimRVator@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sean,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for relating your experience. It's encouraging to hear that
>>>> worked.
>>>>
>>>> I remember doing something similar on my RV-6A gear legs 15 years ago
>>>> as part of the per-plans construction. Although I gave the plans to
>>>> the new owner when I sold the plane, I was able to find the relevant
>>>> section in the preview plans. For anybody who is interested, here's a
>>>> link to that portion of the RV-6 plans:
>>>>
>>>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93114308/Wood%20Shimmy%20Damper.pdf
>>>>
>>>> Tim
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
>>>> RV-6A N47TD -- 1104 hrs - sold
>>>> RV-10 N31TD -- 340 hrs
>>>>
>>>> Seano said the following on 8/18/2012 2:05 PM:
>>>>>
>>>>> Tim,
>>>>>
>>>>> I fiberglassed oak stiffeners on the back of my gear legs. They fit
>>>>> inside the fairing and are basically triangle shaped and milled to fit
>>>>> on the round tapered gear leg. They have really helped with the
>>>>> shimmy. Mine started around 30 kias.
>>>>> If I'm really light and by myself I feel a little shimmy but much less
>>>>> than ever before the stiffeners. If I have any passengers with me or
>>>>> cargo I have no shimmy at all with the stiffeners. Before it would
>>>>> shimmy in any configuration.
>>>>> You can try what I did an that was using strapping tape first to try
>>>>> then out. After it worked I prosealed the woo to the gear leg then
>>>>> glasses them in using a spiral technique with 3" glass tape.
>>>>>
>>>>> Good luck
>>>>> I might be delivering a CJ to Manassas at the end of the month.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 18, 2012, at 11:35, Tim Lewis <TimRVator@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Like many RV-10s (apparently), mine shudders during the landing
>>>>>> rollout. Mine starts when decelerating through 35-40 knots (or so)
>>>>>> on landing. The speed range at which the shudder occurs is only a
>>>>>> small number of knots - less than 5 knot range I think, so the
>>>>>> shudder phase stops pretty quickly during deceleration. Hard braking
>>>>>> may make the shudder more intense.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Based on the successful experiences reported by Tim Olson and
>>>>>> others, I bought the Marc Parnes DU42 wheel balancer
>>>>>> (http://www.marcparnes.com/Ducati_Motorcycle_Wheel_Balancer.htm#DU42),
>>>>>> and used that to balance all my wheels. The DU42 is very nice piece
>>>>>> of equipment -- surprisingly sensitive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.marcparnes.com/Ducati_Motorcycle_Wheel_Balancer.htm#DU42
>>>>>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93114308/ParnesOnStands.JPG
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It took a significant amount of weight to balance the wheels (several
>>>>>> 1/4oz weights on each wheel). From what I've read, others have had
>>>>>> this same experience.
>>>>>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93114308/TireWts.JPG
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also installed the planearound.com Wheel Fairing Bracket Spacers to
>>>>>> stiffen up the wheel fairing attachment to the main gear. The
>>>>>> planearound product is well made, fit fine, and really does stiffen
>>>>>> up the wheel fairing bracket attachment.
>>>>>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93114308/PlaneAround1.JPG
>>>>>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93114308/PlaneAroundInstalled.JPG
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Results: No discernible change in landing roll out behavior. I
>>>>>> still get about the same shudder on roll out. Perhaps the onset
>>>>>> speed has been raised a small number of knots as a result of
>>>>>> balancing and adding the brackets, but I'm not sure about that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not sure what else to try.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
>>>>>> RV-6A N47TD -- 1104 hrs - sold
>>>>>> RV-10 N31TD -- 340 hrs
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <Wood Shimmy Damper.pdf>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: Main gear shudder revisited (retread tires) |
I've spent way too much time looking for the 10% discount package on the
Dresser site ... did you perhaps mean this on Van's?
http://www.vansaircrafttires.com/products/-RV%252d10-Main-Tire-Package-Special-save-10%25-%28two-15%7B47%7D600%252d6PR-Retreads-%26-two-Aero-Classic-Easy-Flate-Tubes%29.html
Later, - Lew
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Preid
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Main gear shudder revisited (retread tires)
If you go to the RV-10 section of desser They have the retreads for the
rear. There is a10% discount if you get the tires and leakproof tubes( with
valve angle) package.
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