Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:20 AM - Re: Differential Pressure Test - Results Question (jkreidler)
2. 05:44 AM - Re: RV10-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/27/12 (Tim)
3. 09:43 AM - ELT Antenna (Kelly McMullen)
4. 09:49 AM - Re: ELT Antenna (Seano)
5. 09:52 AM - Re: ELT Antenna (Rene Felker)
6. 09:54 AM - Re: ELT Antenna (Jesse Saint)
7. 09:56 AM - Re: ELT Antenna (Seano)
8. 09:59 AM - Re: ELT Antenna (Marcus Cooper)
9. 10:03 AM - Re: ELT Antenna (Rob Kochman)
10. 11:06 AM - Re: ELT Antenna (Carl Froehlich)
11. 11:53 AM - Re: ELT Antenna (John Cox)
12. 04:20 PM - Re: Differential Pressure Test - Results Question (Barry)
13. 05:30 PM - High altitude performance (Jesse Saint)
14. 05:48 PM - Re: High altitude performance (Rob Kermanj)
15. 05:53 PM - Re: ELT Antenna (bob-tcw)
16. 06:13 PM - Re: Re: Differential Pressure Test - Results Question (Robin Marks)
17. 07:02 PM - Re: ELT Antenna (Pascal)
18. 11:56 PM - Re: ELT Antenna (Bob Turner)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Differential Pressure Test - Results Question |
Barry, thanks for the information. I have read your article, great write-up, thanks!
I was wondering if the volume of the plenum could ever get too large?
Thanks, Jason
--------
Jason Kreidler
4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
N44YH - Flying - #40617
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381980#381980
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: RV10-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/27/12 |
Any builders between Birmingham-Chattanooga-Clarksville?
On Aug 28, 2012, at 2:01 AM, RV10-List Digest Server <rv10-list@matronics.com>
wrote:
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete RV10-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the RV10-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 12-08-27&Archive=RV10
>
> Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 12-08-27&Archive=RV10
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> RV10-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Mon 08/27/12: 2
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 07:40 AM - Re: Differential Pressure Test - Results Question (Barry)
> 2. 05:23 PM - Plane-Power Alternator use (Rob Kermanj)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:40:41 AM PST US
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Differential Pressure Test - Results Question
> From: "Barry" <blalmarz@embarqmail.com>
>
>
> I too have the SJ cowl and pleneum, and have had the same cooling problems. I
now
> can climb and keep oil temps +/- 210F and CHT's under 400F when it's hot OAT.
> In cruise I run LOP -50F or ROP 150F and the oil is 195-205F and CHT 385-395F
> on #5 or #6; the rest of the CHT's are lower. These are the mods I have done
> in order:
> 1. Installed 4 louvers, 2 on bottom, 2 on side of cowl like a C-182
> 2. Cut the exit area of the cowl so it opened it up at the rear about 1 1/2"
> 3. Installed a new pleneum from Sam that is more wedge shaped ( higher in the
rear)
> which gives more volume for incoming air
> 4. Installed the larger rings
> I have done speed checks with two other stock RV-10's at the same power settings
> and our speeds were pretty much the same.
> I plan on putting some air dams in front of #1&2 cyl to see if I can get #5&6
> CHT's down a little
> My wife, Amy Laboda, did a write up in Kitplanes a while back on the process,
so
> check those out. Give me a call if ya have any questions 239-567-2271. Blue
> Skys Barry
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381923#381923
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 05:23:13 PM PST US
> From: Rob Kermanj <flysrv10@gmail.com>
> Subject: RV10-List: Plane-Power Alternator use
>
> Hello All,
>
> Anyone using PP 30 Amp accessory mount alternator as a primary?
>
> If so, any comments?
>
> Thanks,
> RobK
>
> do not archive
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>> From: "Dick Carmichael" <stc@planepower.com>
>> Subject: Plane-Power
>> Date: August 27, 2012 10:09:18 AM EDT
>> To: <FlysRV10@gmail.com>
>>
>> Rob:
>>
>> See attached. The FS1-14 and FS1-14B are the same size. Only the
> internal regulator is diifferent. (13.6v vs 14.3v)
>>
>> Dick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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I am looking at installing my ACK E-04 antenna under the tail
intersection fiberglass fairing. I've read through a good discussion
on the AeroElectric list and feel the trade-off of horizontal
polarization, vs protection from impact and eliminating the drag is
worth it. I know that Mooney got approval for similar antenna instal
for a 406 antenna in fiberglass ventral fin.
My question is if anyone has done this and gotten any grief from their
DAR. My only concern is to fully meet the TSO on the ELT you are
supposed to comply with the install instructions, that call for
vertical mounting withing 30 degrees.
Kelly
40866
forever finishing
Message 4
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Kelly,
I mounted mine horizontally under the tailcone fairing with no problems from
the DAR.
I later converted mine to 406 and accidentally set it off. The airforce
called me within 5 minutes so I knew it worked well even in the hangar with
the door closed. I wouldn't recommend testing it this way :)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 10:42 AM
Subject: RV10-List: ELT Antenna
>
> I am looking at installing my ACK E-04 antenna under the tail
> intersection fiberglass fairing. I've read through a good discussion
> on the AeroElectric list and feel the trade-off of horizontal
> polarization, vs protection from impact and eliminating the drag is
> worth it. I know that Mooney got approval for similar antenna instal
> for a 406 antenna in fiberglass ventral fin.
> My question is if anyone has done this and gotten any grief from their
> DAR. My only concern is to fully meet the TSO on the ELT you are
> supposed to comply with the install instructions, that call for
> vertical mounting withing 30 degrees.
> Kelly
> 40866
> forever finishing
>
>
>
Message 5
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That is how I did it. My DAR did not comment.
After the crash, which way will the antenna be pointing?
Rene' Felker
N423CF
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 10:43 AM
Subject: RV10-List: ELT Antenna
I am looking at installing my ACK E-04 antenna under the tail intersection
fiberglass fairing. I've read through a good discussion on the AeroElectric
list and feel the trade-off of horizontal polarization, vs protection from
impact and eliminating the drag is worth it. I know that Mooney got
approval for similar antenna instal for a 406 antenna in fiberglass ventral
fin.
My question is if anyone has done this and gotten any grief from their DAR.
My only concern is to fully meet the TSO on the ELT you are supposed to
comply with the install instructions, that call for vertical mounting
withing 30 degrees.
Kelly
40866
forever finishing
Message 6
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I've done it and haven't gotten any grief from a DAR.
On Aug 28, 2012, at 12:42 PM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am looking at installing my ACK E-04 antenna under the tail
> intersection fiberglass fairing. I've read through a good discussion
> on the AeroElectric list and feel the trade-off of horizontal
> polarization, vs protection from impact and eliminating the drag is
> worth it. I know that Mooney got approval for similar antenna instal
> for a 406 antenna in fiberglass ventral fin.
> My question is if anyone has done this and gotten any grief from their
> DAR. My only concern is to fully meet the TSO on the ELT you are
> supposed to comply with the install instructions, that call for
> vertical mounting withing 30 degrees.
> Kelly
> 40866
> forever finishing
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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Ya. Plus in my checklist I state to make sure you crash within 30 degrees of vertical
so they can find your body.
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 28, 2012, at 12:48, "Rene Felker" <rene@felker.com> wrote:
>
> That is how I did it. My DAR did not comment.
>
> After the crash, which way will the antenna be pointing?
>
> Rene' Felker
> N423CF
> 801-721-6080
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 10:43 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: ELT Antenna
>
>
> I am looking at installing my ACK E-04 antenna under the tail intersection
> fiberglass fairing. I've read through a good discussion on the AeroElectric
> list and feel the trade-off of horizontal polarization, vs protection from
> impact and eliminating the drag is worth it. I know that Mooney got
> approval for similar antenna instal for a 406 antenna in fiberglass ventral
> fin.
> My question is if anyone has done this and gotten any grief from their DAR.
> My only concern is to fully meet the TSO on the ELT you are supposed to
> comply with the install instructions, that call for vertical mounting
> withing 30 degrees.
> Kelly
> 40866
> forever finishing
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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Kelly,
That's exactly what I did and received no grief whatsoever from the DAR.
Marcus
On Aug 28, 2012, at 12:42 PM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com> wrote:
I am looking at installing my ACK E-04 antenna under the tail
intersection fiberglass fairing. I've read through a good discussion
on the AeroElectric list and feel the trade-off of horizontal
polarization, vs protection from impact and eliminating the drag is
worth it. I know that Mooney got approval for similar antenna instal
for a 406 antenna in fiberglass ventral fin.
My question is if anyone has done this and gotten any grief from their
DAR. My only concern is to fully meet the TSO on the ELT you are
supposed to comply with the install instructions, that call for
vertical mounting withing 30 degrees.
Kelly
40866
forever finishing
Message 9
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|
I installed my 406 ELT on top of the tail cone, to ensure it has a good
ground plane and view of the sky. I really regret it. It looks dumb and
is draggy. By all accounts, they work great under the tail fairing, and
for me flying most trips IFR and using a SPOT mitigates the risk even
further.
-Rob
On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 9:56 AM, Seano <sean@braunandco.com> wrote:
>
> Ya. Plus in my checklist I state to make sure you crash within 30 degrees
> of vertical so they can find your body.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 28, 2012, at 12:48, "Rene Felker" <rene@felker.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > That is how I did it. My DAR did not comment.
> >
> > After the crash, which way will the antenna be pointing?
> >
> > Rene' Felker
> > N423CF
> > 801-721-6080
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
> McMullen
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 10:43 AM
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: RV10-List: ELT Antenna
> >
> >
> > I am looking at installing my ACK E-04 antenna under the tail
> intersection
> > fiberglass fairing. I've read through a good discussion on the
> AeroElectric
> > list and feel the trade-off of horizontal polarization, vs protection
> from
> > impact and eliminating the drag is worth it. I know that Mooney got
> > approval for similar antenna instal for a 406 antenna in fiberglass
> ventral
> > fin.
> > My question is if anyone has done this and gotten any grief from their
> DAR.
> > My only concern is to fully meet the TSO on the ELT you are supposed to
> > comply with the install instructions, that call for vertical mounting
> > withing 30 degrees.
> > Kelly
> > 40866
> > forever finishing
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--
Rob Kochman
RV-10 Flying since March 2011
Woodinville, WA
http://kochman.net/N819K
Message 10
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That is how I have the antenna mounted in both the 8A and the 10. The local FSDO
did sign offs on both planes and did not mention the mount for either one.
Carl
On Aug 28, 2012, at 12:53 PM, Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com> wrote:
>
> I've done it and haven't gotten any grief from a DAR.
>
> On Aug 28, 2012, at 12:42 PM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> I am looking at installing my ACK E-04 antenna under the tail
>> intersection fiberglass fairing. I've read through a good discussion
>> on the AeroElectric list and feel the trade-off of horizontal
>> polarization, vs protection from impact and eliminating the drag is
>> worth it. I know that Mooney got approval for similar antenna instal
>> for a 406 antenna in fiberglass ventral fin.
>> My question is if anyone has done this and gotten any grief from their
>> DAR. My only concern is to fully meet the TSO on the ELT you are
>> supposed to comply with the install instructions, that call for
>> vertical mounting withing 30 degrees.
>> Kelly
>> 40866
>> forever finishing
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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Use an IFR-4000-Opt 1 and see if the 406 emits the squitter discrete data
from your concealed antenna. It will also allow you to determine how many
Db loss the idea cost.
We have the elt mounted with horizontal ground plane and 1/3 of the
antennae concealed. It is a quarter wave for 121.5.
Cosmetics goes out the window when you are inverted in the snow in
February. The drag coefficient has always been a none issue.
John
On Aug 28, 2012 9:46 AM, "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am looking at installing my ACK E-04 antenna under the tail
> intersection fiberglass fairing. I've read through a good discussion
> on the AeroElectric list and feel the trade-off of horizontal
> polarization, vs protection from impact and eliminating the drag is
> worth it. I know that Mooney got approval for similar antenna instal
> for a 406 antenna in fiberglass ventral fin.
> My question is if anyone has done this and gotten any grief from their
> DAR. My only concern is to fully meet the TSO on the ELT you are
> supposed to comply with the install instructions, that call for
> vertical mounting withing 30 degrees.
> Kelly
> 40866
> forever finishing
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Differential Pressure Test - Results Question |
Hi Jason; I think Sam's thinking for the larger volume plenum was to reduce the
internal pressure and speed the air at the inlets to get good flow into the plenum.
We were thinking with the lower volume plenum it could create back pressure
and create a restriction for the inlet air and cause it to spill out around
the rings. Sorry no real engineering data just trial and error. It has seemed
to help and I'm sure there is a point where too much volume ie. lower pressure,
is not optimal, but again no hard data. Good luck Barry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382027#382027
Message 13
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| Subject: | High altitude performance |
I have a guy asking me how an RV-10 would perform in Mexico at 5,000 ft msl on
a 2,000 ft strip. Any opinions of how much weight it could operate with at this
altitude on a short strip in a warm climate?
Thanks.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
www.mavericklsa.com
C: 352-427-0285
O: 352-465-4545
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: High altitude performance |
I tested mine in Bryce Canyon airport (alt 7600 ft) on a summer day but not terribly
hot, four people, full fuel, many bags, mid day and I used about 1/2 of
the 7500 long runway.
do not archive.
On Aug 28, 2012, at 8:29 PM, Jesse Saint wrote:
>
> I have a guy asking me how an RV-10 would perform in Mexico at 5,000 ft msl on
a 2,000 ft strip. Any opinions of how much weight it could operate with at this
altitude on a short strip in a warm climate?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jesse Saint
> I-TEC, Inc.
> jesse@itecusa.org
> www.itecusa.org
> www.mavericklsa.com
> C: 352-427-0285
> O: 352-465-4545
> F: 815-377-3694
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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All of you that have not had an issue with your DAR inspection count
yourself as lucky. My DAR had this issue of the ELT antenna being
absolutely installed per the TSO for which the ELT was certified up
front on his list of things that were deal breakers for him. This is
the only antenna hole I had to drill through the top of my airplane, I
was not pleased. The only good news for me was that he was upfront
about the antenna issue and I had a month or so to prepare myself for
drilling the hole.
good luck with your elt install, your experience will vary with the
DAR available to you!
Bob Newman
N541RV
www.tcwtech.com
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Differential Pressure Test - Results Question |
Based on research we did at the time our understanding of an "ideal" plenum shape
would be an ever increasing volume as the air moves aft. To that effect we
took the ill-performing James plenum and hacked the fiberglass off both upper
sides above the cylinder heads. In place of the fiberglass we mated a metal plenum
of ever increasing volume with the end result being a plenum with ~50% more
volume (WAG). The net effect of this change was ZERO. Not really any discernible
difference other than I now had a Franken-plenum. It was ugly but it was
symmetrical and just about as clean to the airflow as the original plenum. I
truly expected to see some difference good or bad. But no difference. This is
the same plenum I fly today. Literally today.
I am willing to place a few dollars that an even tighter plenum in this situation
will NOT aid in cooling.
In all cowl configurations some air to a significant amount of inlet air actually
reverses itself and goes out the inlets. This is part of the dirtiness of the
front end of your aircraft. Minimizing the amount backtracking out will help
performance. The racers have extra small inlets for max speed but minimum engine
lifespan. Striking a balance is the goal. Again the simplest answer is the
standard vans cowl & baffle. My next attempt will be larger inlets (new cowl)
and a baffle system.
Robin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 4:20 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Differential Pressure Test - Results Question
Hi Jason; I think Sam's thinking for the larger volume plenum was to reduce the
internal pressure and speed the air at the inlets to get good flow into the plenum.
We were thinking with the lower volume plenum it could create back pressure
and create a restriction for the inlet air and cause it to spill out around
the rings. Sorry no real engineering data just trial and error. It has seemed
to help and I'm sure there is a point where too much volume i.e. lower pressure,
is not optimal, but again no hard data. Good luck Barry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382027#382027
Message 17
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DAR are basically FAA designated representatives. I had to spend 3 hours
at a FSDO with 7 different FAA examiners drilling me for my
repairman=99s certificate. Another builder got his after a 15
minute discussion with his FSDO and his explaining the pictures,
difference is he went to a FSDO that understood experimental aircraft, I
went to my FSDO in a area where they don=99t see too many
experimentals so they don=99t understand the rules and
requirements without studying the regs..
My point is my DAR has a RV has been a DAR for 21 years and knew the
rules for =9Cexperimental=9D aircraft, he recommended I put
the antenna where mine is, under the fiberglass fairing below the VS, he
told me a whole lot because he knew what the rules were but he also knew
what is was like to fly a RV. I wasn=99t lucky, I was fortunate.
Get a Technical Councelor, get one that knows RV and who knows who the
best DAR is for you. Having to drill a hole is ridiculous, I would have
found another DAR if I was told this was my only option, if that 2nd
opinion DAR told me to do it, than I would. I can=99t tell you how
many =9Chighly educated=9D people told me I needed to do
something, I tested the idea off of another builder who almost laughed
at my questions, in the end he was right I didn=99t need to drill
holes in places to do the job right.
From: bob-tcw
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: ELT Antenna
All of you that have not had an issue with your DAR inspection count
yourself as lucky. My DAR had this issue of the ELT antenna being
absolutely installed per the TSO for which the ELT was certified up
front on his list of things that were deal breakers for him. This is
the only antenna hole I had to drill through the top of my airplane, I
was not pleased. The only good news for me was that he was upfront
about the antenna issue and I had a month or so to prepare myself for
drilling the hole.
good luck with your elt install, your experience will vary with the
DAR available to you!
Bob Newman
N541RV
www.tcwtech.com
Message 18
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Anyone mount their antenna to the baggage area bulkhead, with the antenna running
just below the baggage area fiberglass ceiling?
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382041#382041
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