Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:13 AM - Re: Re: ELT Antenna (Kelly McMullen)
2. 07:09 PM - Re: Re: Differential Pressure Test - Results Question (Tom Koelzer)
3. 07:29 PM - Re: RV 10 Builder want-a-be (rv10flyer)
4. 07:45 PM - Re: ELT Antenna (rv10flyer)
5. 07:55 PM - Re: Re: ELT Antenna (Kelly McMullen)
6. 08:00 PM - Re: High altitude performance (rv10flyer)
7. 08:06 PM - Re: Plane-Power Alternator use (rv10flyer)
8. 08:13 PM - Re: Re: High altitude performance (Kelly McMullen)
9. 08:19 PM - Re: Travel canopy cover recommendations (rv10flyer)
10. 08:26 PM - Re: Interior Window Transitions (rv10flyer)
11. 09:04 PM - Re: Re: Travel canopy cover recommendations (Tim Olson)
12. 09:06 PM - Re: High altitude performance (rv10flyer)
13. 09:16 PM - Re: Travel canopy cover recommendations (rv10flyer)
14. 10:30 PM - Re: Re: High altitude performance (Robin Marks)
15. 10:37 PM - Re: Re: Differential Pressure Test - Results Question (Robin Marks)
16. 11:23 PM - Re: Re: Travel canopy cover recommendations (Bill Watson)
Message 1
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Just checked my ELT E-04 manual. What it really says is "IF the
antenna is being mounted on a NON-CONDUCTIVE portion of the airframe,
a SUPPLEMENTARY ground plane must be installed. The supplemental
ground plane must have a minimum diamenter of 24", however 48" will
provide maximum power at 121.5 MHz and is recommended.
I don't know of anywhere you could get a 48" radius on an RV-10 except
in the middle of a wing, but is a spurious discussion unless you mount
the antenna on the fiberglass canopy without grounding to the metal
airframe.
On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 10:37 PM, nukeflyboy <flymoore@charter.net> wrote:
>
> My 406 manual said it needed a 24 in radius ground plane, if I remember correctly.
As Tim said it should be located where it will remain intact and connected
antenna to box. There are not a lot of options if you take the ground plane
requirement seriously. My ELT is behind the baggage bulkhead and the antenna
just behind it on the top of the tailbone. It sticks out, which I don't like,
but at least it should work per the specs if ever needed.
>
> --------
> Dave Moore
> RV-6 flying
> RV-10 QB - flying
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382125#382125
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Differential Pressure Test - Results Question |
Robin,
I have a very old, unused aero degree from 1977 so don't consider myself an expert
on the subject but have some thoughts regarding your below discussion.
I believe the larger volume plenum theory was to allow a reduction in air velocity
due to larger cross section area inside the plenum thus increasing the static
pressure as the flow decelerates. This should increase pressure across the
cylinder cooling fins and help overall air flow through the cowl. However, the
results would probably be no different if the air flow is choked at the cowl
inlet (or outlet for that matter) due to too small of inlet area. This could
account for your lack of change in results. So you might retry the larger plenum
after you open the inlets and see what happens. No guarantees but worth a try
since you already have the larger plenum built. The other area to check out
would be exit area at the bottom cowl to ensure low exit pressure.
Let us know how it works out.
Tom
40950 wings slow build - seems like forever...
On Aug 28, 2012, at 8:13 PM, Robin Marks wrote:
>
> Based on research we did at the time our understanding of an "ideal" plenum shape
would be an ever increasing volume as the air moves aft. To that effect we
took the ill-performing James plenum and hacked the fiberglass off both upper
sides above the cylinder heads. In place of the fiberglass we mated a metal
plenum of ever increasing volume with the end result being a plenum with ~50%
more volume (WAG). The net effect of this change was ZERO. Not really any discernible
difference other than I now had a Franken-plenum. It was ugly but it was
symmetrical and just about as clean to the airflow as the original plenum.
I truly expected to see some difference good or bad. But no difference. This is
the same plenum I fly today. Literally today.
> I am willing to place a few dollars that an even tighter plenum in this situation
will NOT aid in cooling.
> In all cowl configurations some air to a significant amount of inlet air actually
reverses itself and goes out the inlets. This is part of the dirtiness of
the front end of your aircraft. Minimizing the amount backtracking out will help
performance. The racers have extra small inlets for max speed but minimum
engine lifespan. Striking a balance is the goal. Again the simplest answer is
the standard vans cowl & baffle. My next attempt will be larger inlets (new cowl)
and a baffle system.
>
> Robin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 4:20 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Differential Pressure Test - Results Question
>
>
> Hi Jason; I think Sam's thinking for the larger volume plenum was to reduce the
internal pressure and speed the air at the inlets to get good flow into the
plenum. We were thinking with the lower volume plenum it could create back pressure
and create a restriction for the inlet air and cause it to spill out around
the rings. Sorry no real engineering data just trial and error. It has seemed
to help and I'm sure there is a point where too much volume i.e. lower pressure,
is not optimal, but again no hard data. Good luck Barry
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: RV 10 Builder want-a-be |
You are 2.0 from me at PMH. Gotta be someone closer. I can't think of anything
I don't like about the plane. Flew 1.1 yesterday with a newly soloed pp...8.9
GPH, 142 KTAS, 2500 MSL. $87 worth of fun. Better than Disney. Been there, done
that in May. Lots of good deals on kits and flying -10's on barnstormers. You
can get one for what it cost to build now. Lindy award winner on there just
today. If you have all the money now, that is an option. Back when I was looking
in 2008, prices on all planes(and houses) were just too high for what you got.
--------
Wayne Gillispie, A&P 05/93 PP 10/08
40983SB 12/1/2009-12/1/2011
N715WD 382nd Flying. TT= 74
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382169#382169
Message 4
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Mine is on the right side of the rear seat cross brace. Out of the way. Did not
need any more aft cg with pc680 aux bat already back there. Left slack in coax
on each end. If we lose our coax connection, I would bet it won't matter then.
The backup ant is strapped to the elt if someone miraculously survives.
--------
Wayne Gillispie, A&P 05/93 PP 10/08
40983SB 12/1/2009-12/1/2011
N715WD 382nd Flying. TT= 74
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382170#382170
Message 5
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Your antenna or the ELT is located on the cross brace? I think the
antenna there is a fine location, as long as it doesn't offend your
SO/FO/CFO's sensibilities for interior "appearance". I may very well
use that exact spot if DAR doesn't like horizontal under the tail
fairing.
On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 7:45 PM, rv10flyer <wayne.gillispie@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Mine is on the right side of the rear seat cross brace. Out of the way. Did not
need any more aft cg with pc680 aux bat already back there. Left slack in coax
on each end. If we lose our coax connection, I would bet it won't matter then.
The backup ant is strapped to the elt if someone miraculously survives.
>
> --------
> Wayne Gillispie, A&P 05/93 PP 10/08
> 40983SB 12/1/2009-12/1/2011
> N715WD 382nd Flying. TT= 74
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382170#382170
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: High altitude performance |
I fly at 2700 gross weight all the time with my family out of a 5000' runway length
at an elevation of 663'. I have 260 hp all standard items. In the summer
I use approximately 1500'-1800' for both takeoff and landing safely. No, I would
not do it unless light or in an emergency.
--------
Wayne Gillispie
40983SB 12/1/2009-12/1/2011
N715WD TT= 76.9 and loving it!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382172#382172
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Plane-Power Alternator use |
No way that I could as I am recharging a pc925, pc680 and powering an IFR panel
pulling 50-55 Amps after start.
--------
Wayne Gillispie
40983SB 12/1/2009-12/1/2011
N715WD TT= 76.9 and loving it!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382173#382173
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: High altitude performance |
Hmm, Van's specs for sea level gross wt takeoff is 500 ft. Are you
sure you need 3 times that? Landing 650' at gross. I know I am not
that skilled at this time, but only have a bit more than an hour in a
-10, so I don't know how hard it is to match Van's published numbers.
On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 8:00 PM, rv10flyer <wayne.gillispie@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I fly at 2700 gross weight all the time with my family out of a 5000' runway
length at an elevation of 663'. I have 260 hp all standard items. In the summer
I use approximately 1500'-1800' for both takeoff and landing safely. No, I
would not do it unless light or in an emergency.
>
> --------
> Wayne Gillispie
> 40983SB 12/1/2009-12/1/2011
> N715WD TT= 76.9 and loving it!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382172#382172
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Travel canopy cover recommendations |
I have Abby's, carried it on a few long trips and have not used it yet. Hangared
on one trip. When should I use it? I have been worried about trapping dirt beneath
with wind and scratching plexi. I do have a few water leaks around door
hinge screws that I need to seal up. Do most of you install it for security/sun
fading/water leaks/cabin cooler??
--------
Wayne Gillispie
40983SB 12/1/2009-12/1/2011
N715WD TT= 76.9 and loving it!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382175#382175
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Interior Window Transitions |
The thicker weld on 45 bonded windows and formed a good paintable fillet. Yes,
my paint is cracking around exterior of rear windows especially. No worries as
it is not a showplane. Me, my house and car have cracks too.
--------
Wayne Gillispie
40983SB 12/1/2009-12/1/2011
N715WD TT= 76.9 and loving it!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382176#382176
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Travel canopy cover recommendations |
I use mine all the time for sun/heat protection. It is really amazing to me how
dark and cool the interior is with that cover on.
I use it all week at OSH and most nights when traveling. Probably 25-30 days this
year so far. As long as you aren't in a dust storm dirt isn't a big issue.
I do clean my windows if possible before covering it up.
Tim
On Aug 30, 2012, at 10:19 PM, "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I have Abby's, carried it on a few long trips and have not used it yet. Hangared
on one trip. When should I use it? I have been worried about trapping dirt
beneath with wind and scratching plexi. I do have a few water leaks around door
hinge screws that I need to seal up. Do most of you install it for security/sun
fading/water leaks/cabin cooler??
>
> --------
> Wayne Gillispie
> 40983SB 12/1/2009-12/1/2011
> N715WD TT= 76.9 and loving it!
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382175#382175
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: High altitude performance |
The only time that I have lifted off at 500' is solo, full fuel, oat=30-40F, Flaps=
3*. My first flight. Maybe a test pilot, using 18* flaps could get it off
at full gross, but not with my family on board and not in my plane.
Landing, I bet I could get it stopped if I drug it in at 1.2 X Vso, raised flaps
upon touching down and burnt my brakes up. Not in my plane, with my family and
with me buying tires/brakes/doing all the work. Just in case of an emergency...I
do have 83282 hyd fluid from sky geek in mine.
The speed numbers are very close for the avg pilot. Takeoff and landing distances
not so much unless you are testing for numbers to go in the sales literature
or flying magazine. Maybe other better family hauling pilots can do it. I would
just have to make several trips if the runway is under 1500' and around SL-1000'
msl.
--------
Wayne Gillispie
40983SB 12/1/2009-12/1/2011
N715WD TT= 76.9 and loving it!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382178#382178
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Travel canopy cover recommendations |
We may try it at Triple Tree Fly-In at SC00. Thank you for the info.
--------
Wayne Gillispie
40983SB 12/1/2009-12/1/2011
N715WD TT= 76.9 and loving it!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382180#382180
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: High altitude performance |
I have ~700 hours in various RV's and I could not spot land & stop in 650' at gross.
I don't even want to try.
Robin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 8:13 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: High altitude performance
Hmm, Van's specs for sea level gross wt takeoff is 500 ft. Are you sure you need
3 times that? Landing 650' at gross. I know I am not that skilled at this time,
but only have a bit more than an hour in a -10, so I don't know how hard it
is to match Van's published numbers.
On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 8:00 PM, rv10flyer <wayne.gillispie@gmail.com> wrote:
> --> <wayne.gillispie@gmail.com>
>
> I fly at 2700 gross weight all the time with my family out of a 5000' runway
length at an elevation of 663'. I have 260 hp all standard items. In the summer
I use approximately 1500'-1800' for both takeoff and landing safely. No, I
would not do it unless light or in an emergency.
>
> --------
> Wayne Gillispie
> 40983SB 12/1/2009-12/1/2011
> N715WD TT= 76.9 and loving it!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382172#382172
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Differential Pressure Test - Results Question |
Tom,
Your description is as I thought but I didn't want to get specific due to not owning
an aero degree of any vintage. We also agree that the issue is and always
was inlet area. I think I mentioned investigating exit area in my note. Still
of minimal benefit w/o adequate inlet area.
As discussed no need for a larger plenum in my future. Baffles and a replacement
cowl are already ordered and waiting.
Thanks,
Robin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Koelzer
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 7:08 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Differential Pressure Test - Results Question
Robin,
I have a very old, unused aero degree from 1977 so don't consider myself an expert
on the subject but have some thoughts regarding your below discussion.
I believe the larger volume plenum theory was to allow a reduction in air velocity
due to larger cross section area inside the plenum thus increasing the static
pressure as the flow decelerates. This should increase pressure across the
cylinder cooling fins and help overall air flow through the cowl. However, the
results would probably be no different if the air flow is choked at the cowl
inlet (or outlet for that matter) due to too small of inlet area. This could
account for your lack of change in results. So you might retry the larger plenum
after you open the inlets and see what happens. No guarantees but worth a try
since you already have the larger plenum built. The other area to check out
would be exit area at the bottom cowl to ensure low exit pressure.
Let us know how it works out.
Tom
40950 wings slow build - seems like forever...
On Aug 28, 2012, at 8:13 PM, Robin Marks wrote:
>
> Based on research we did at the time our understanding of an "ideal" plenum shape
would be an ever increasing volume as the air moves aft. To that effect we
took the ill-performing James plenum and hacked the fiberglass off both upper
sides above the cylinder heads. In place of the fiberglass we mated a metal
plenum of ever increasing volume with the end result being a plenum with ~50%
more volume (WAG). The net effect of this change was ZERO. Not really any discernible
difference other than I now had a Franken-plenum. It was ugly but it was
symmetrical and just about as clean to the airflow as the original plenum.
I truly expected to see some difference good or bad. But no difference. This is
the same plenum I fly today. Literally today.
> I am willing to place a few dollars that an even tighter plenum in this situation
will NOT aid in cooling.
> In all cowl configurations some air to a significant amount of inlet air actually
reverses itself and goes out the inlets. This is part of the dirtiness of
the front end of your aircraft. Minimizing the amount backtracking out will help
performance. The racers have extra small inlets for max speed but minimum
engine lifespan. Striking a balance is the goal. Again the simplest answer is
the standard vans cowl & baffle. My next attempt will be larger inlets (new cowl)
and a baffle system.
>
> Robin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 4:20 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Differential Pressure Test - Results Question
>
>
> Hi Jason; I think Sam's thinking for the larger volume plenum was to
> reduce the internal pressure and speed the air at the inlets to get
> good flow into the plenum. We were thinking with the lower volume
> plenum it could create back pressure and create a restriction for the
> inlet air and cause it to spill out around the rings. Sorry no real
> engineering data just trial and error. It has seemed to help and I'm
> sure there is a point where too much volume i.e. lower pressure, is
> not optimal, but again no hard data. Good luck Barry
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Travel canopy cover recommendations |
I don't use one but I do use one of those aluminized sun guards that are
used in autos. I'd recommend getting and using one before investing in
a regular canopy cover or perhaps in lieu of using the one you have.
When we landed in Phoenix early this summer, it felt like my interior
started melting and things just started coming apart. I looked around
the ramp and saw that practically every airplane, especially the jets,
had one of those sun guards in the windshield. A quick trip to Autozone
and I found a half dozen varieties from less than $5 to $25 or so. I
picked a cheap one and it worked like a charm. Much better than expected.
Yes, it only covers the windshield but that takes care of 80% of sun.
The loose, sloppy fit means that it has little actual contact with the
windshield so scratching is not a problem. It's super light, fan folds
for storage, and it has a slot in the middle so it can hang on the rear
view mirror. The same slot fits around our center post just fine.
I works so well that even if I neglect to deploy it at tie down, I'll
often put it up during pre-flight to cool things off and do my
pre-flight stuff. On a sunny ramp, it's the last thing I stow before
shutting the doors and starting the engine.
I used regular canopy covers on my sailplanes years ago but they have a
few problems. Scratching and dirt being one. That's real pain if you
get high winds overnight and/or the hold downs are not properly in place
and the cover flaps around for a few hours or days. Then you reto
always disassemble and box it).
Anyway, you should try one of these things. I don't have any water
leaks so the only thing I'm looking for is sun protection. These things
are cheap, very easy to use, super light and easy to stow. Blocking
only most of the sun coming thru the windshield I've found is more than
sufficient for casual parking. The canopy cover would be the thing to
use if it's tied out all the time.
Triple Tree fly-in! Didn't know they had one but wish I had. Great
place and people there. I was there a few years ago for an RC event.
Anyplace self-described as the "Augusta of Aviation" is worth a visit.
Assuming it's there next year, I'll have to give it a try. Have fun Wayne!
Bill "suggests getting cowl plugs too - it's amazing how much material a
starling can fit under a RV10 cowling... and how hard it is to get it
all out" Watson
On 8/30/2012 11:19 PM, rv10flyer wrote:
>
> I have Abby's, carried it on a few long trips and have not used it yet. Hangared
on one trip. When should I use it? I have been worried about trapping dirt
beneath with wind and scratching plexi. I do have a few water leaks around door
hinge screws that I need to seal up. Do most of you install it for security/sun
fading/water leaks/cabin cooler??
>
>
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