Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 10:32 AM - Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists (Matt Dralle)
1. 05:11 AM - Re: aileron trim (bill.peyton)
2. 07:14 AM - Re: aileron trim (Bill Watson)
3. 07:59 AM - Re: aileron trim (Don McDonald)
4. 11:10 AM - Re: aileron trim (James Dearborn)
5. 11:37 AM - Re: aileron trim (Bill Watson)
6. 12:36 PM - Re: aileron trim (James Dearborn)
7. 03:19 PM - Air box mod to fix filter deformation (Carl Froehlich)
8. 04:07 PM - Opinion please (Ed Godfrey)
9. 04:30 PM - Re: Opinion please (Bill Watson)
10. 04:33 PM - Re: Opinion please (Phillip Perry)
11. 04:44 PM - Re: Opinion please (Phillip Perry)
12. 04:50 PM - Re: Opinion please (Dave Saylor)
13. 06:43 PM - Re: Opinion please (Bob Leffler)
14. 06:52 PM - Re: aileron trim (Rick Lark)
15. 07:23 PM - Re: Opinion please (g.combs)
16. 07:47 PM - Re: Opinion please (Robin Marks)
17. 07:57 PM - Re: Opinion please (g.combs)
18. 08:08 PM - Re: Opinion please (Phillip Perry)
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| Subject: | Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists |
Dear Listers,
There is no advertising income to support the Matronics Email Lists and Forums.
The operation is supported 100% by your personal Contributions during the November
Fund
Raiser.
Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade
of these services. You can pick up a really nice gift for making your Contribution
too!
You may use a Credit Card or Paypal at the Matronics Contribution Site here:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or, you can send a personal check to the following address:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
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Livermore, CA 94550
Thank you in advance for your generous support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: aileron trim |
I use my aileron trim every time I fly. I can't believe how sensitive this airframe
is to fuel imbalance and passenger load. I like the option of having my
Aerosport rudder trim, but I set it a while back and it hasn't moved in a while.
--------
Bill
WA0SYV
Aviation Partners, LLC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386584#386584
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: aileron trim |
Hi Kelly.
Just to put a finer point on it from someone who has just a little time
in a Mooney and 200+ in the '10. The difference is in the relative
'stiffness' of the aileron control.
As I recall, the Mooney has enough system stiffness that it tends to
blank out small roll trim requirements. It's mainly a matter of
managing the tanks to keep the trim close. The wings tend to stay where
you put them which is a very nice thing.
The RV10's control system is tight and light, but not stiff at all. A
small imbalance is easy to overcome but will require constant pressure
and/or attention. No big deal but no hands off at all if out of trim a
little bit.
All this applies to hand flying only. I find myself doing very little
hand flying these days except for airport ops. And frankly, I rarely
touch the roll trim if I'm actively maneuvering the plane. It's not
really needed in that context. It's just hand flying while smooth air
cruising where trim is desired. So if you cruise with the AP and manage
the tanks properly, you really won't miss the roll trim at all.
There may be a difference between yoke flying versus the stick. My old
Maule was always out of roll trim but without an AP, my hand was always
on the yoke and it was easy to hold in the required roll trim. I find
the stick less comfortable in the same situation. I actually miss my
old yoke (shields up!)
Good Luck
Bill Watson - Durham NC
On 11/2/2012 11:15 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> That is why I am waiting. I have flown my Mooney for 14 years with
> similar wing tanks, similar loads with all sorts of fuel imbalance
> with same pushrod type controls and didn't feel any need for aileron
> trim. Recognize RV-10 maybe different, with shorter wings, but since
> it can be installed later, I will wait and see.
> Usually mods that we have spent money on turn out to be the best, and
> the rest...who knows.:-P
>
> On 11/2/2012 7:58 AM, Jae Chang wrote:
>>
>> Just my 2c, i use aileron trim on every flight and consider it
>> standard equipment. Otherwise, you will have to constantly apply
>> aileron force (when not on autopilot) to fly wings level as weight
>> varies side to side.
>>
>> Jae
>> do not archive
>>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: aileron trim |
Does anyone out there still believe in the KISS principal?- Like Bill, mo
st of my distance flying is-by autopilot, and if you monitor the tanks-
properly, it's really a non-issue.- Haven't found the need for either rud
der or aileron trim.- Less weight, less $, less work, and maybe most impo
rtant, less that can go wrong.=0AMy 1 cents worth.-=0ADon McDonald=0A450
hours and counting.=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Bill
Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com>=0ATo: rv10-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Satu
rday, November 3, 2012 9:13 AM=0ASubject: Re: RV10-List: aileron trim=0A
=0AHi Kelly.=0AJust to put a finer point on it from someone who has just a
little time in a Mooney and 200+ in the '10.- The difference is in the re
lative 'stiffness' of the aileron control.=0A=0AAs I recall, the Mooney has
enough system stiffness that it- tends to blank out small roll trim requ
irements.- It's mainly a matter of managing the tanks to keep the trim cl
ose.- The wings tend to stay where you put them which is a very nice thin
g.=0A=0AThe RV10's control system is tight and light, but not stiff at all.
- A small imbalance is easy to overcome but will require constant pressur
e and/or attention.- No big deal but no hands off at all if out of trim a
little bit.=0A=0AAll this applies to hand flying only.- I find myself do
ing very little hand flying these days except for airport ops.- And frank
ly, I rarely touch the roll trim if I'm actively maneuvering the plane.-
It's not really needed in that context.- It's just hand flying while smoo
th air cruising where trim is desired.- So if you cruise with the AP and
manage the tanks properly, you really won't miss the roll trim at all.=0A
=0AThere may be a difference between yoke flying versus the stick. My old M
aule was always out of roll trim but without an AP, my hand was always on t
he yoke and it was easy to hold in the required roll trim.- I find the st
ick less comfortable in the same situation.- I actually miss my old yoke
(shields up!)=0A=0AGood Luck=0ABill Watson - Durham NC=0A=0AOn 11/2/2012 11
Mullen <kellym@aviating.com>=0A> =0A> That is why I am waiting. I have flow
n my Mooney for 14 years with similar wing tanks, similar loads with all so
rts of fuel imbalance with same pushrod type controls and didn't feel any n
eed for aileron trim. Recognize RV-10 maybe different, with shorter wings,
but since it can be installed later, I will wait and see.=0A> Usually mods
that we have spent money on turn out to be the best, and the rest...who kno
ws.:-P=0A> =0A> On 11/2/2012 7:58 AM, Jae Chang wrote:=0A>> --> RV10-List m
essage posted by: Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10@jline.com>=0A>> =0A>>- Jus
t my 2c, i use aileron trim on every flight and consider it standard equipm
ent. Otherwise, you will have to constantly apply aileron force (when not o
n autopilot) to fly wings level as weight varies side to side.=0A>> =0A>> J
ae=0A>> do not archive=0A>> =0A> =0A> =0A> -----=0A> No virus found in this
message.=0A> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com/=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A>
=0A> =0A> =0A> -----=0A> No virus found in this message.=0A> Checked by AVG
=================
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: aileron trim |
All good points.
I'm one of those who believes in trim, trim, trim. Trimmed hands off is the most
efficient your airplane will fly. It is also the 'state' your airplane should
be in when the auto pilot is engaged. Even flying the MD-11 I trimmed to hands
off before engaging the A/P and would occasionally click off the A/P enroute
just to insure the control pressures were neutral. Finally, trim can be a backup
flight control system. Years ago I instructed in T-34Bs (1,000+ hrs). One
demo I gave was a complete circuit in the landing pattern using only trim. Trim
is your friend!
Cheers,
Jim
do not archive
On Nov 3, 2012, at 9:59 AM, Don McDonald <building_partner@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Does anyone out there still believe in the KISS principal? Like Bill, most of
my distance flying is by autopilot, and if you monitor the tanks properly, it's
really a non-issue. Haven't found the need for either rudder or aileron trim.
Less weight, less $, less work, and maybe most important, less that can
go wrong.
> My 1 cents worth.
> Don McDonald
> 450 hours and counting.
>
> From: Bill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Saturday, November 3, 2012 9:13 AM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: aileron trim
>
>
> Hi Kelly.
> Just to put a finer point on it from someone who has just a little time in a
Mooney and 200+ in the '10. The difference is in the relative 'stiffness' of
the aileron control.
>
> As I recall, the Mooney has enough system stiffness that it tends to blank out
small roll trim requirements. It's mainly a matter of managing the tanks to
keep the trim close. The wings tend to stay where you put them which is a very
nice thing.
>
> The RV10's control system is tight and light, but not stiff at all. A small
imbalance is easy to overcome but will require constant pressure and/or attention.
No big deal but no hands off at all if out of trim a little bit.
>
> All this applies to hand flying only. I find myself doing very little hand flying
these days except for airport ops. And frankly, I rarely touch the roll
trim if I'm actively maneuvering the plane. It's not really needed in that context.
It's just hand flying while smooth air cruising where trim is desired.
So if you cruise with the AP and manage the tanks properly, you really won't
miss the roll trim at all.
>
> There may be a difference between yoke flying versus the stick. My old Maule
was always out of roll trim but without an AP, my hand was always on the yoke
and it was easy to hold in the required roll trim. I find the stick less comfortable
in the same situation. I actually miss my old yoke (shields up!)
>
> Good Luck
> Bill Watson - Durham NC
>
> On 11/2/2012 11:15 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
> >
> > That is why I am waiting. I have flown my Mooney for 14 years with similar
wing tanks, similar loads with all sorts of fuel imbalance with same pushrod type
controls and didn't feel any need for aileron trim. Recognize RV-10 maybe
different, with shorter wings, but since it can be installed later, I will wait
and see.
> > Usually mods that we have spent money on turn out to be the best, and the rest...who
knows.:-P
> >
> > On 11/2/2012 7:58 AM, Jae Chang wrote:
> >>
> >> Just my 2c, i use aileron trim on every flight and consider it standard equipment.
Otherwise, you will have to constantly apply aileron force (when not
on autopilot) to fly wings level as weight varies side to side.
> >>
> >> Jae
> >> do not archive
> >>
> >
> >
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >
> >
>
> ht==============
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: aileron trim |
Funny you should mention the complete circuit using trim. Years ago
when trying to learn to land a C150 at age 16, the instructor flew the
pattern with trim-only. Pitch trim that is, and rudder and power of
course. It showed me how unnnecessary my death grip on the yoke was.
Anyway, does that mean that the MD-11 A/P didn't operate the trim when
engaged? Or was it just a good habit that shouldn't be broken?
Bill "still thinks his TruTrak AP is a magical gift from the gods" Watson
On 11/3/2012 2:10 PM, James Dearborn wrote:
> All good points.
> I'm one of those who believes in trim, trim, trim. Trimmed hands off
> is the most efficient your airplane will fly. It is also the 'state'
> your airplane should be in when the auto pilot is engaged. Even flying
> the MD-11 I trimmed to hands off before engaging the A/P and would
> occasionally click off the A/P enroute just to insure the control
> pressures were neutral. Finally, trim can be a backup flight control
> system. Years ago I instructed in T-34Bs (1,000+ hrs). One demo I gave
> was a complete circuit in the landing pattern using only trim. Trim is
> your friend!
> Cheers,
> Jim
>
> do not archive
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: aileron trim |
Hi Bill,
The pitch trim on the 'Dog' is very good and works on the A/P. Roll and yaw trim
are manual. The system trims by taking out control pressure to within a certain
value. This will allow 'some' amount of control pressure to build up before
the actuator moves to neutralize the elevator control pressure. One can engage
the autopilot when not 'in trim' and the system will trim for you. If the elevator
is too far out of neutral pressure the A/P would not engage. The A/P will
also disengage if an excessive control pressure can not be trimmed out and
the accumulated pressure exceeds a certain value.
Another factor that needs to be considered is what happens if the A/P fails or
the A/P is simply disengaged when an out of trim condition is present. Generally
an abrupt control input is the result. This is undesirable, particularly at
Mins.
I'm new to small airplane autopilots and their capabilities, but I'm eager to learn.
The avionics for the homebuilt industry is amazing. That being said, it
seems that using the aileron control servos to "trim" for you will cause an unbalanced
flight condition. . . maybe a yaw damper would help. Unbalanced flight
is less efficient, hence more fuel burn.
I think it is a good habit to always be in trim. I've been fortunate to be flying
for fifty years and believe in stacking the deck in my favor when I can.
Final caution, "George", the A/P, is a great tool, but don't let him become a crutch.
Cheers,
Jim
do not archive
On Nov 3, 2012, at 1:36 PM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com> wrote:
> Funny you should mention the complete circuit using trim. Years ago when trying
to learn to land a C150 at age 16, the instructor flew the pattern with trim-only.
Pitch trim that is, and rudder and power of course. It showed me how
unnnecessary my death grip on the yoke was.
>
> Anyway, does that mean that the MD-11 A/P didn't operate the trim when engaged?
Or was it just a good habit that shouldn't be broken?
>
> Bill "still thinks his TruTrak AP is a magical gift from the gods" Watson
>
> On 11/3/2012 2:10 PM, James Dearborn wrote:
>> All good points.
>> I'm one of those who believes in trim, trim, trim. Trimmed hands off is the
most efficient your airplane will fly. It is also the 'state' your airplane should
be in when the auto pilot is engaged. Even flying the MD-11 I trimmed
to hands off before engaging the A/P and would occasionally click off the
A/P enroute just to insure the control pressures were neutral. Finally, trim
can be a backup flight control system. Years ago I instructed in T-34Bs (1,000+
hrs). One demo I gave was a complete circuit in the landing pattern using only
trim. Trim is your friend!
>> Cheers,
>> Jim
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Air box mod to fix filter deformation |
All,
This is a mod to the air box I did on the RV-10, and just now back fitted
onto the RV-8A.
Over the years with the RV-8A I've had to repair the air box and replace the
filter. As you can see from the first photo, the bottom of the filter
deforms (curves in). This tends to shorten the filter such that it drops
out of the top and impairs the seal with the top plate. I also had to add
fiberglass to the bottom of the air box as the relative motion between the
bottom of the air filter the air box eroded away the fiberglass bottom.
The fix was to add a .032" aluminum plate to the bottom of the air box. The
plate eliminates the bottom erosion and the added brackets hold the filter
shape. A side benefit is that alternate air door now sandwiches the bottom
fiberglass between two piece of metal making a sturdier install. I also
took the step to add proseal between the aluminum plate and the air box
bottom.
Carl
Message 8
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Listers,
I am working on finishing the inside of the cabin top and I have a
question about one area. In the attached photo, there is a shiny area on
the vertical portion of the door opening. It has been suggested that it
may be some remnants of peel-ply that was not removed at the factory. If
that is the case, do I need to try to remove it, should I sand it away,
or can I just use Superfil over it as it is? Thanks.
Ed Godfrey
40717
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
As I recall, the shiny parts are where they missed with the peel ply. The matte
areas are where they properly did lay down some peel ply. On mine, there were
bits of peel ply that didn't get peeled. Application of a flame will quickly
char and burn it away (thanks Dave).
The whole mishmash of finishes had me so vexed that I decided to cover it all with
fabric so I don't have a clue as to what to do except to cover it.
Bill
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 3, 2012, at 7:07 PM, Ed Godfrey <egodfrey@ameritech.net> wrote:
> Listers,
> I am working on finishing the inside of the cabin top and I have a question
about one area. In the attached photo, there is a shiny area on the vertical
portion of the door opening. It has been suggested that it may be some
remnants of peel-ply that was not removed at the factory. If that is the case,
do I need to try to remove it, should I sand it away, or can I just use Superfil
over it as it is? Thanks.
>
> <IMG_1404.JPG>
>
>
> Ed Godfrey
> 40717
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
Oh wow. That photo nearly made me turn green as my stomach rolled over.
It's like looking at an old photograph you can't stand.
With all the fiberglass stuff, you want to sand the high spots off first
and then fill the lows second. So get out the sanding block and sand it
down until you're left with a few obvious low spots and then fill those.
You'll probably want to mark the lows with a sharpie (so you know where
they are) and then rough them up with sandpaper so the filler will have
something to bond to. It won't stick to a shiny surface very well.
Phil
On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 4:07 PM, Ed Godfrey <egodfrey@ameritech.net> wrote:
> Listers,
> I am working on finishing the inside of the cabin top and I have a
> question about one area. In the attached photo, there is a shiny area on
> the vertical portion of the door opening. It has been suggested that it may
> be some remnants of peel-ply that was not removed at the factory. If that
> is the case, do I need to try to remove it, should I sand it away, or can I
> just use Superfil over it as it is? Thanks.
>
>
> Ed Godfrey
> 40717
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
Yeah. I have sanded mine down (and filled it too) to the point where I at
least like the profile of the cabin top.
I'm using Geoff's headliner in the back.
2 weeks ago I covered everything that Geoff's headliner didn't cover with
blue painters tape. Then a couple of coats of wax. Then two layers of
carbon. (Had to use carbon to get it stiff enough). And I built inserts
that I will wrap in headliner material and velcro against the inside of the
cabin top.
I'm still in the finishing processes of it, but I'm going to be on the road
for a next 3 weeks. I won't know exactly how it turned out until Dec.
Phil
On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 4:29 PM, Bill Watson <mauledriver@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> As I recall, the shiny parts are where they missed with the peel ply. The
> matte areas are where they properly did lay down some peel ply. On mine,
> there were bits of peel ply that didn't get peeled. Application of a flame
> will quickly char and burn it away (thanks Dave).
>
> The whole mishmash of finishes had me so vexed that I decided to cover it
> all with fabric so I don't have a clue as to what to do except to cover it.
>
> Bill
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Nov 3, 2012, at 7:07 PM, Ed Godfrey <egodfrey@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
> > Listers,
> > I am working on finishing the inside of the cabin top and I have a
> question about one area. In the attached photo, there is a shiny area on
> the vertical portion of the door opening. It has been suggested that it
> may be some remnants of peel-ply that was not removed at the factory. If
> that is the case, do I need to try to remove it, should I sand it away, or
> can I just use Superfil over it as it is? Thanks.
> >
> > <IMG_1404.JPG>
> >
> >
> > Ed Godfrey
> > 40717
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
Bill's right, that's most likely an area that never had peel-ply over it.
If it does turn out to still have some on it, you should be able to get
ahold of an edge and tear it off. In that area, it wouldn't hurt to just
leave some peel ply there but that's not really the best practice. It
looks to me like it's just plain glass though.
I'd sand it with some 80 grit and finish it however you like. That's
another way to find the peel ply--if the edges ball up when you sand it,
you'll know it's peel-ply.
I painted some of those hard-to-finish areas with truck bed liner. Turned
out pretty well.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 4:07 PM, Ed Godfrey <egodfrey@ameritech.net> wrote:
> Listers,
> I am working on finishing the inside of the cabin top and I have a
> question about one area. In the attached photo, there is a shiny area on
> the vertical portion of the door opening. It has been suggested that it may
> be some remnants of peel-ply that was not removed at the factory. If that
> is the case, do I need to try to remove it, should I sand it away, or can I
> just use Superfil over it as it is? Thanks.
>
>
> Ed Godfrey
> 40717
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
Ed,
As others have mentioned, there are multiple solutions available. My first recommendation
is to get the Aerosport Products headliner from Geoff. That will
cover 2/3 of the cabin cover. You won't have to sand or fill anything covered
by the headliner. If you get his overhead console, that will even cover up
more area.
I used USC Auto Body Icing, but there are other similar products available. I found
it easier to work with than plain micro. There is a fair amount of filling
and sanding to get everything smooth.
Just don't attach the cabin cover to the fuselage until the end. It's a lot easier
to work on upside down on the bench.
Bob
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 3, 2012, at 7:07 PM, Ed Godfrey <egodfrey@ameritech.net> wrote:
> Listers,
> I am working on finishing the inside of the cabin top and I have a question
about one area. In the attached photo, there is a shiny area on the vertical
portion of the door opening. It has been suggested that it may be some
remnants of peel-ply that was not removed at the factory. If that is the case,
do I need to try to remove it, should I sand it away, or can I just use Superfil
over it as it is? Thanks.
>
> <IMG_1404.JPG>
>
>
> Ed Godfrey
> 40717
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: aileron trim |
Bill, funny you would mention the circuit thing, as I too had a primary
flight instructor 35 years ago show and teach me the exact same thing. No
hands on the column, feet on the rudder peddles and using elevator
trim/power to descend etc. To this day I use rudder and elevator trim all
the time when flying my C-177B.
Having said that, there is something to be said about the KISS principle.
None the less I've installed trim for all 3 axis.
Can't wait to use the electric trim in the -10.
Rick
#40956
Southampton, Ont
On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 2:36 PM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com> wrote:
> Funny you should mention the complete circuit using trim. Years ago
> when trying to learn to land a C150 at age 16, the instructor flew the
> pattern with trim-only. Pitch trim that is, and rudder and power of
> course. It showed me how unnnecessary my death grip on the yoke was.
>
> Anyway, does that mean that the MD-11 A/P didn't operate the trim when
> engaged? Or was it just a good habit that shouldn't be broken?
>
> Bill "still thinks his TruTrak AP is a magical gift from the gods" Watson
>
> On 11/3/2012 2:10 PM, James Dearborn wrote:
>
> All good points.
> I'm one of those who believes in trim, trim, trim. Trimmed hands off is
> the most efficient your airplane will fly. It is also the 'state' your
> airplane should be in when the auto pilot is engaged. Even flying the MD-11
> I trimmed to hands off before engaging the A/P and would occasionally click
> off the A/P enroute just to insure the control pressures were neutral.
> Finally, trim can be a backup flight control system. Years ago I instructed
> in T-34Bs (1,000+ hrs). One demo I gave was a complete circuit in the
> landing pattern using only trim. Trim is your friend!
> Cheers,
> Jim
>
> do not archive
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
I recommend finishing the entire inside of the cabin top off like the outside of
the airplane. Sand and fill
As required. It will take 2-3 days and a lot of elbow grease but when done it
will look much better
Than doing minimal work. There is a spray primer called duratec the is a 2 part
sprayable body filler. Once you work out the real bad spots and sand spray a
good heavy coat on the entire inside of the cabin top. Block it out almost back
to the raw fiber glass and do it one more time. Then it should be very close
to final paint. Do all this before attaching the cabin top to the fuse.
If using a overhead console you can omit doing the area under the console but do
everything
Else. Paint and complete entire cabin top install lights or what ever you want
before installing.
Life will be much easier and the results will be very gratifying.
FWIW
Geoff
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 3, 2012, at 9:42 PM, Bob Leffler <rv@thelefflers.com> wrote:
>
> Ed,
>
> As others have mentioned, there are multiple solutions available. My first
recommendation is to get the Aerosport Products headliner from Geoff. That will
cover 2/3 of the cabin cover. You won't have to sand or fill anything covered
by the headliner. If you get his overhead console, that will even cover
up more area.
>
> I used USC Auto Body Icing, but there are other similar products available..
I found it easier to work with than plain micro. There is a fair amount of filling
and sanding to get everything smooth.
>
> Just don't attach the cabin cover to the fuselage until the end. It's a lot
easier to work on upside down on the bench.
>
> Bob
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Nov 3, 2012, at 7:07 PM, Ed Godfrey <egodfrey@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>> Listers,
>> I am working on finishing the inside of the cabin top and I have a question
about one area. In the attached photo, there is a shiny area on the vertical
portion of the door opening. It has been suggested that it may be some
remnants of peel-ply that was not removed at the factory. If that is the case,
do I need to try to remove it, should I sand it away, or can I just use Superfil
over it as it is? Thanks.
>>
>> <IMG_1404.JPG>
>>
>>
>> Ed Godfrey
>> 40717
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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I came to the conclusion that we had to fill, sand & paint once we opted for the
OH console. I just could not imagine dealing with a headliner and transitioning
from headliner to all the window cut outs as well as the OH console and potentially
all the switches, vents, lights... That was my version of K.I.S.S. and
in this case less is more. I am still happy with the choice. Of course my preference
as always is to have Geoff figure it out first and then follow suit
but we started building too soon. :-)
http://painttheweb.com/painttheweb/rv-10/Console.aspx
The painted lid and Aerosport Products interior panels gets you one nice interior.
Robin
--> <g.combs@aerosportmodeling.com>
I recommend finishing the entire inside of the cabin top off like the outside of
the airplane. Sand and fill As required. It will take 2-3 days and a lot of
elbow grease but when done it will look much better Than doing minimal work.
There is a spray primer called duratec the is a 2 part sprayable body filler.
Once you work out the real bad spots and sand spray a good heavy coat on the entire
inside of the cabin top. Block it out almost back to the raw fiber glass
and do it one more time. Then it should be very close to final paint. Do all
this before attaching the cabin top to the fuse.
If using a overhead console you can omit doing the area under the console but do
everything Else. Paint and complete entire cabin top install lights or what
ever you want before installing.
Life will be much easier and the results will be very gratifying.
FWIW
Geoff
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 3, 2012, at 9:42 PM, Bob Leffler <rv@thelefflers.com> wrote:
>
> Ed,
>
> As others have mentioned, there are multiple solutions available. My first
recommendation is to get the Aerosport Products headliner from Geoff. That will
cover 2/3 of the cabin cover. You won't have to sand or fill anything covered
by the headliner. If you get his overhead console, that will even cover
up more area.
>
> I used USC Auto Body Icing, but there are other similar products available..
I found it easier to work with than plain micro. There is a fair amount of filling
and sanding to get everything smooth.
>
> Just don't attach the cabin cover to the fuselage until the end. It's a lot
easier to work on upside down on the bench.
>
> Bob
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Nov 3, 2012, at 7:07 PM, Ed Godfrey <egodfrey@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>> Listers,
>> I am working on finishing the inside of the cabin top and I have a question
about one area. In the attached photo, there is a shiny area on the vertical
portion of the door opening. It has been suggested that it may be some
remnants of peel-ply that was not removed at the factory. If that is the case,
do I need to try to remove it, should I sand it away, or can I just use Superfil
over it as it is? Thanks.
>>
>> <IMG_1404.JPG>
>>
>>
>> Ed Godfrey
>> 40717
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
Follow exactly what Robin did and then add then add headliner if you wish. As Robin
said less can be more.
Geoff
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 3, 2012, at 10:46 PM, Robin Marks <robin@PaintTheWeb.com> wrote:
>
> I came to the conclusion that we had to fill, sand & paint once we opted for
the OH console. I just could not imagine dealing with a headliner and transitioning
from headliner to all the window cut outs as well as the OH console and
potentially all the switches, vents, lights... That was my version of K.I.S.S.
and in this case less is more. I am still happy with the choice. Of course my
preference as always is to have Geoff figure it out first and then follow suit
but we started building too soon. :-)
> http://painttheweb.com/painttheweb/rv-10/Console.aspx
> The painted lid and Aerosport Products interior panels gets you one nice interior.
>
> Robin
>
> --> <g.combs@aerosportmodeling.com>
>
> I recommend finishing the entire inside of the cabin top off like the outside
of the airplane. Sand and fill As required. It will take 2-3 days and a lot
of elbow grease but when done it will look much better Than doing minimal work.
There is a spray primer called duratec the is a 2 part sprayable body filler.
Once you work out the real bad spots and sand spray a good heavy coat on the
entire inside of the cabin top. Block it out almost back to the raw fiber glass
and do it one more time. Then it should be very close to final paint. Do all
this before attaching the cabin top to the fuse.
> If using a overhead console you can omit doing the area under the console but
do everything Else. Paint and complete entire cabin top install lights or what
ever you want before installing.
> Life will be much easier and the results will be very gratifying.
>
> FWIW
>
> Geoff
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Nov 3, 2012, at 9:42 PM, Bob Leffler <rv@thelefflers.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Ed,
>>
>> As others have mentioned, there are multiple solutions available. My first
recommendation is to get the Aerosport Products headliner from Geoff. That will
cover 2/3 of the cabin cover. You won't have to sand or fill anything covered
by the headliner. If you get his overhead console, that will even cover
up more area.
>>
>> I used USC Auto Body Icing, but there are other similar products available..
I found it easier to work with than plain micro. There is a fair amount of
filling and sanding to get everything smooth.
>>
>> Just don't attach the cabin cover to the fuselage until the end. It's a lot
easier to work on upside down on the bench.
>>
>> Bob
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Nov 3, 2012, at 7:07 PM, Ed Godfrey <egodfrey@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Listers,
>>> I am working on finishing the inside of the cabin top and I have a question
about one area. In the attached photo, there is a shiny area on the vertical
portion of the door opening. It has been suggested that it may be some
remnants of peel-ply that was not removed at the factory. If that is the case,
do I need to try to remove it, should I sand it away, or can I just use Superfil
over it as it is? Thanks.
>>>
>>> <IMG_1404.JPG>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ed Godfrey
>>> 40717
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
Oh boy. 2-3 days???
I must be doing something terribly wrong. I'm 2-3 months into sanding,
filling, and shaping.
I must be too much of a perfectionist, because it looks like it still has
work to do according to my eye.
Phil
> > --> <g.combs@aerosportmodeling.com>
> >
> > I recommend finishing the entire inside of the cabin top off like the
> outside of the airplane. Sand and fill As required. *It will take 2-3
> days and a lot of elbow grease* but when done it will look much better
> Than doing minimal work. There is a spray primer called duratec the is a 2
> part sprayable body filler. Once you work out the real bad spots and sand
> spray a good heavy coat on the entire inside of the cabin top. Block it out
> almost back to the raw fiber glass and do it one more time. Then it should
> be very close to final paint. Do all this before attaching the cabin top to
> the fuse.
> > If using a overhead console you can omit doing the area under the
> console but do everything Else. Paint and complete entire cabin top install
> lights or what ever you want before installing.
> > Life will be much easier and the results will be very gratifying.
> >
> > FWIW
> >
> > Geoff
> >
>
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