Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:19 AM - Coming Soon - The List of Contributors - Please Make A Contribution Today! (Matt Dralle)
1. 06:01 AM - Re: Opinion please (johngoodman)
2. 06:29 AM - Re: Re: RV-10 Rudder trim (Tim Olson)
3. 07:23 AM - Re: Re: RV-10 Rudder trim (Linn)
4. 07:53 AM - Re: Re: RV-10 Rudder trim (Seano)
5. 07:57 AM - Re: Re: RV-10 Rudder trim (Tim Olson)
6. 08:08 AM - Re: Re: RV-10 Rudder trim (Pascal)
7. 09:41 AM - Re: Opinion please (rleffler)
8. 11:20 AM - Re: Re: Opinion please (Phil Perry)
9. 11:49 AM - Re: Re: Opinion please (Geoff Combs)
10. 12:19 PM - Re: Re: Opinion please (Linn)
11. 01:07 PM - Re: Re: RV-10 Rudder trim (Robin Marks)
12. 02:07 PM - Re: Re: RV-10 Rudder trim (Bob Condrey)
13. 03:40 PM - Re: aileron trim (Bill Watson)
14. 03:46 PM - Re: Opinion please (Bill Watson)
15. 03:52 PM - Re: Re: RV-10 Rudder trim (Robin Marks)
16. 04:40 PM - Re: RV-10 Rudder trim (Ron B.)
17. 04:50 PM - Re: Opinion please ()
18. 05:35 PM - Re: Re: RV-10 Rudder trim (Tim Olson)
19. 05:37 PM - Re: Re: RV-10 Rudder trim (Miller John)
20. 06:51 PM - Re: Re: RV-10 Rudder trim (Rick Lark)
21. 07:09 PM - Re: Opinion please (g.combs)
22. 07:27 PM - Re: Opinion please ()
23. 08:05 PM - Re: Opinion please (g.combs)
24. 08:15 PM - Re: Opinion please (johngoodman)
25. 09:22 PM - Re: Opinion please ()
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| Subject: | Coming Soon - The List of Contributors - Please Make A Contribution |
Today!
Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone
that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way
of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Please take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors
(LOC)! As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems
at least as valuable a building / entertainment tool as your typical magazine
subscription!
Make sure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others that you appreciate
the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using
your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps
these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about
how the Lists have helped you!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
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| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
2 to 3 days is bull. Try 2 to 3 months. I'm retired and I was out there every day.
The most I could stand was about 4 to 5 hours of sanding & filling.
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386892#386892
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| Subject: | Re: RE: RV-10 Rudder trim |
Lynn,
Some of this post just gets too out of whack.
First, an EFIS isn't that hard to wire. I think most would be
almost easier than dealing with some of the things on a 6-pack,
like vacuum pumps and lines and additional static/pitot lines.
The world isn't a 6-pack panel world anymore, so no use
lamenting it...the new stuff CAN be smaller, lighter, and
simpler.
But where you really go off into the weeds is with the last
paragraph. You start talking about how much of a pain
in the rear it was to put in trim, and then went on to describe
building microcontrollers and how much time that all adds
to the build. Well, I'm here to tell you that for
MOST people, it's not going to be that tough. First,
you can install Geoff's system quickly (I have no first
hand experience), from the sounds of it. Second, for people
like me who'd prefer an electronic, adjustable tab of
some type, you can use standard ray allen components and
get the job done very quick. I added rudder trim in one
evening, to a flying plane. No need to build special
controllers, and certainly it wouldn't even add a week
to a person's build time. So you make it sound much more
painful than it is.
But where you really lose it is this line:
"At this stage in the build my recommendations would be to build
the airplane stock and deal with the idiosyncrasies when it's
flying."
You know, there's nothing wrong with going stock, but,
for a NON-FLYING builder to make statements like that,
you should definitely DEFINITELY qualify that statement
clearly to the list....you're someone who HAS NOT THE EXPERIENCE
of flying such a creation for any sizeable amount of time,
yet you're saying they'd be better off dealing with
the idiosyncrasies later? I mean, it's fine to have
an opinion and comment, but definitely qualify that
statement with "I'm not a flying builder", so at least
people know to take the opinion with a grain of salt.
Once you've flown it for a while, many of these
opinions will become much more valuable.
My personal feelings on trim:
Aileron trim - You need it, really. Yes, I buy into the KISS
principle, but if you're going to hand fly at all, you'll
find Aileron trim a necessity in the 10...much more so
than any other plane I'd flown in the past.
Elevator trim - Not much to say here except I think
everyone should have speed control and I personally
believe Bob's Safety-Trim or similar featured device
should be mandatory install.
Rudder trim - This one could well be optional, but I'm
much happier in my 615 hours AFTER installing rudder
trim than I was in my 288 hours BEFORE installing it.
No, I don't adjust it every flight. Maybe not even
every 2nd flight. But, if you vary flight loads and
airspeeds in cruise and you cruise >500 miles a day,
it's likely to be something that people will like.
Definitely not a necessity, and a trim wedge or bendable
tab would do for many people I'm sure. But, it is
a nice option for people flying X/C. On a side note,
I'm planning to build an RV-14 hopefully starting
soon, and when I build that, I will possibly leave
rudder trim OFF of that one. Mainly because I don't
want to mess with a control surface too much that I
plan to use for some aerobatics. But, I may still
add it. If I were building a -10 again, I'd add
it for sure...likely do the same as I have, but may
consider a notched tab into the rudder. What I have
is about as simple as it gets if you have an
electric rudder trim though. If I were more of a
spring trim guy, I'd go for Geoff's system.
Tim
On 11/4/2012 7:36 AM, Linn wrote:
> Hi Carlos.
> To answer your question, AFAIK there isn't. Most of the rudder trims
> I've seen are wedges affixed to the rudder trailing edge, followed by
> hinges operated by Ray Allen trim motors .... followed by by a moveable
> tab cut out of the rudder.
>
> I'm afraid I'm walking down the path to mental illness. That KISS
> thingy is starting to look pretty darn good.
> I'm wiring. And wiring. And wiring. That 6-pack of steam gauges is
> looking better all the time. I have dual, independent flat panels with
> autopilot and engine monitor.
>
> Because I had a stroke of lunacy I am installing the hinge-type trim on
> the ailerons and rudder operated by model airplane servos. I had to
> build up a mocrocontroller to create the pulse width to operate the
> servos, write the code and add a power supply to drop the 12V to 5.
> Why? Because I can. But it seems like anytime I deviate from the plans
> it adds 6 months to the build time. Some longer. At this stage in the
> build my recommendations would be to build the airplane stock and deal
> with the idiosyncrasies when it's flying. Which I still hope to do someday.
> Linn
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: RE: RV-10 Rudder trim |
Tim, thanks for your comments. I'm not as eloquent as you are.
I apologize for giving you the wrong impression.
My comments were aimed at the increased build time whenever you deviate
from the plans. The decisions I made have stretched out my build time
significantly. That's not to say I wouldn't do it again. I'm trying to
build light ..... and fast .... and safe .... as I can. I wanted to
convey what happens when you deviate from stock, and the impact it's had
on /_my_/ build time.
I am frustrated right now, but I've been here before. I am a repeat
offender. Ah, good to get that off my chest!!!
I had a little knowledge of other trim systems. Here's one solution
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=23591 and one
from Aerosport http://www.aerosportproducts.com/ruddertrim.htm. I
consider the first a lot of work, and the second far simpler if you like
bungee trim. My experience with bungee trim hasn't been perfect.
That's what drove me to the model airplane servo solution. First it was
just aileron trim, but as long as I had to make the controller, I might
as well add rudder trim ..... and now I'm thinking of a controllable
camera mount ..... and the build time gets longer and longer.
Linn ..... wiring .... not flying .... and terribly jealous of those
that are!!!!
On 11/5/2012 9:29 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Lynn,
>
> Some of this post just gets too out of whack.
> First, an EFIS isn't that hard to wire. I think most would be
> almost easier than dealing with some of the things on a 6-pack,
> like vacuum pumps and lines and additional static/pitot lines.
> The world isn't a 6-pack panel world anymore, so no use
> lamenting it...the new stuff CAN be smaller, lighter, and
> simpler.
>
> But where you really go off into the weeds is with the last
> paragraph. You start talking about how much of a pain
> in the rear it was to put in trim, and then went on to describe
> building microcontrollers and how much time that all adds
> to the build. Well, I'm here to tell you that for
> MOST people, it's not going to be that tough. First,
> you can install Geoff's system quickly (I have no first
> hand experience), from the sounds of it. Second, for people
> like me who'd prefer an electronic, adjustable tab of
> some type, you can use standard ray allen components and
> get the job done very quick. I added rudder trim in one
> evening, to a flying plane. No need to build special
> controllers, and certainly it wouldn't even add a week
> to a person's build time. So you make it sound much more
> painful than it is.
>
> But where you really lose it is this line:
>
> "At this stage in the build my recommendations would be to build
> the airplane stock and deal with the idiosyncrasies when it's
> flying."
>
> You know, there's nothing wrong with going stock, but,
> for a NON-FLYING builder to make statements like that,
> you should definitely DEFINITELY qualify that statement
> clearly to the list....you're someone who HAS NOT THE EXPERIENCE
> of flying such a creation for any sizeable amount of time,
> yet you're saying they'd be better off dealing with
> the idiosyncrasies later? I mean, it's fine to have
> an opinion and comment, but definitely qualify that
> statement with "I'm not a flying builder", so at least
> people know to take the opinion with a grain of salt.
> Once you've flown it for a while, many of these
> opinions will become much more valuable.
>
>
> My personal feelings on trim:
>
> Aileron trim - You need it, really. Yes, I buy into the KISS
> principle, but if you're going to hand fly at all, you'll
> find Aileron trim a necessity in the 10...much more so
> than any other plane I'd flown in the past.
>
> Elevator trim - Not much to say here except I think
> everyone should have speed control and I personally
> believe Bob's Safety-Trim or similar featured device
> should be mandatory install.
>
> Rudder trim - This one could well be optional, but I'm
> much happier in my 615 hours AFTER installing rudder
> trim than I was in my 288 hours BEFORE installing it.
> No, I don't adjust it every flight. Maybe not even
> every 2nd flight. But, if you vary flight loads and
> airspeeds in cruise and you cruise >500 miles a day,
> it's likely to be something that people will like.
> Definitely not a necessity, and a trim wedge or bendable
> tab would do for many people I'm sure. But, it is
> a nice option for people flying X/C. On a side note,
> I'm planning to build an RV-14 hopefully starting
> soon, and when I build that, I will possibly leave
> rudder trim OFF of that one. Mainly because I don't
> want to mess with a control surface too much that I
> plan to use for some aerobatics. But, I may still
> add it. If I were building a -10 again, I'd add
> it for sure...likely do the same as I have, but may
> consider a notched tab into the rudder. What I have
> is about as simple as it gets if you have an
> electric rudder trim though. If I were more of a
> spring trim guy, I'd go for Geoff's system.
> Tim
>
>
> On 11/4/2012 7:36 AM, Linn wrote:
>> Hi Carlos.
>> To answer your question, AFAIK there isn't. Most of the rudder trims
>> I've seen are wedges affixed to the rudder trailing edge, followed by
>> hinges operated by Ray Allen trim motors .... followed by by a moveable
>> tab cut out of the rudder.
>>
>> I'm afraid I'm walking down the path to mental illness. That KISS
>> thingy is starting to look pretty darn good.
>> I'm wiring. And wiring. And wiring. That 6-pack of steam gauges is
>> looking better all the time. I have dual, independent flat panels with
>> autopilot and engine monitor.
>>
>> Because I had a stroke of lunacy I am installing the hinge-type trim on
>> the ailerons and rudder operated by model airplane servos. I had to
>> build up a mocrocontroller to create the pulse width to operate the
>> servos, write the code and add a power supply to drop the 12V to 5.
>> Why? Because I can. But it seems like anytime I deviate from the plans
>> it adds 6 months to the build time. Some longer. At this stage in the
>> build my recommendations would be to build the airplane stock and deal
>> with the idiosyncrasies when it's flying. Which I still hope to do
>> someday.
>> Linn
>>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: RE: RV-10 Rudder trim |
I should state I went about 100 hours without rudder trim. I waited for
Geoff (Aerosport Products) to make his rudder trim for the RV-10. After
installing it I have used it a lot and really like it for long climb
outs or slow descents. Mostly just to have my right foot on the ground.
A great by product was the springs holding the rudder from banging
around in the wind. Before the trim I used to hurry and stick in the
rudder pedal gust lock but now I really don't have to at all unless the
wind is 15+.
----- Original Message -----
From: Linn
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: RV-10 Rudder trim
Tim, thanks for your comments. I'm not as eloquent as you are.
I apologize for giving you the wrong impression.
My comments were aimed at the increased build time whenever you
deviate from the plans. The decisions I made have stretched out my
build time significantly. That's not to say I wouldn't do it again.
I'm trying to build light ..... and fast .... and safe .... as I can. I
wanted to convey what happens when you deviate from stock, and the
impact it's had on my build time.
I am frustrated right now, but I've been here before. I am a repeat
offender. Ah, good to get that off my chest!!!
I had a little knowledge of other trim systems. Here's one solution
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=23591 and one
from Aerosport http://www.aerosportproducts.com/ruddertrim.htm. I
consider the first a lot of work, and the second far simpler if you like
bungee trim. My experience with bungee trim hasn't been perfect.
That's what drove me to the model airplane servo solution. First it was
just aileron trim, but as long as I had to make the controller, I might
as well add rudder trim ..... and now I'm thinking of a controllable
camera mount ..... and the build time gets longer and longer.
Linn ..... wiring .... not flying .... and terribly jealous of those
that are!!!!
On 11/5/2012 9:29 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
Lynn,
Some of this post just gets too out of whack.
First, an EFIS isn't that hard to wire. I think most would be
almost easier than dealing with some of the things on a 6-pack,
like vacuum pumps and lines and additional static/pitot lines.
The world isn't a 6-pack panel world anymore, so no use
lamenting it...the new stuff CAN be smaller, lighter, and
simpler.
But where you really go off into the weeds is with the last
paragraph. You start talking about how much of a pain
in the rear it was to put in trim, and then went on to describe
building microcontrollers and how much time that all adds
to the build. Well, I'm here to tell you that for
MOST people, it's not going to be that tough. First,
you can install Geoff's system quickly (I have no first
hand experience), from the sounds of it. Second, for people
like me who'd prefer an electronic, adjustable tab of
some type, you can use standard ray allen components and
get the job done very quick. I added rudder trim in one
evening, to a flying plane. No need to build special
controllers, and certainly it wouldn't even add a week
to a person's build time. So you make it sound much more
painful than it is.
But where you really lose it is this line:
"At this stage in the build my recommendations would be to build
the airplane stock and deal with the idiosyncrasies when it's
flying."
You know, there's nothing wrong with going stock, but,
for a NON-FLYING builder to make statements like that,
you should definitely DEFINITELY qualify that statement
clearly to the list....you're someone who HAS NOT THE EXPERIENCE
of flying such a creation for any sizeable amount of time,
yet you're saying they'd be better off dealing with
the idiosyncrasies later? I mean, it's fine to have
an opinion and comment, but definitely qualify that
statement with "I'm not a flying builder", so at least
people know to take the opinion with a grain of salt.
Once you've flown it for a while, many of these
opinions will become much more valuable.
My personal feelings on trim:
Aileron trim - You need it, really. Yes, I buy into the KISS
principle, but if you're going to hand fly at all, you'll
find Aileron trim a necessity in the 10...much more so
than any other plane I'd flown in the past.
Elevator trim - Not much to say here except I think
everyone should have speed control and I personally
believe Bob's Safety-Trim or similar featured device
should be mandatory install.
Rudder trim - This one could well be optional, but I'm
much happier in my 615 hours AFTER installing rudder
trim than I was in my 288 hours BEFORE installing it.
No, I don't adjust it every flight. Maybe not even
every 2nd flight. But, if you vary flight loads and
airspeeds in cruise and you cruise >500 miles a day,
it's likely to be something that people will like.
Definitely not a necessity, and a trim wedge or bendable
tab would do for many people I'm sure. But, it is
a nice option for people flying X/C. On a side note,
I'm planning to build an RV-14 hopefully starting
soon, and when I build that, I will possibly leave
rudder trim OFF of that one. Mainly because I don't
want to mess with a control surface too much that I
plan to use for some aerobatics. But, I may still
add it. If I were building a -10 again, I'd add
it for sure...likely do the same as I have, but may
consider a notched tab into the rudder. What I have
is about as simple as it gets if you have an
electric rudder trim though. If I were more of a
spring trim guy, I'd go for Geoff's system.
Tim
On 11/4/2012 7:36 AM, Linn wrote:
Hi Carlos.
To answer your question, AFAIK there isn't. Most of the rudder
trims
I've seen are wedges affixed to the rudder trailing edge, followed
by
hinges operated by Ray Allen trim motors .... followed by by a
moveable
tab cut out of the rudder.
I'm afraid I'm walking down the path to mental illness. That KISS
thingy is starting to look pretty darn good.
I'm wiring. And wiring. And wiring. That 6-pack of steam gauges
is
looking better all the time. I have dual, independent flat panels
with
autopilot and engine monitor.
Because I had a stroke of lunacy I am installing the hinge-type
trim on
the ailerons and rudder operated by model airplane servos. I had
to
build up a mocrocontroller to create the pulse width to operate
the
servos, write the code and add a power supply to drop the 12V to
5.
Why? Because I can. But it seems like anytime I deviate from the
plans
it adds 6 months to the build time. Some longer. At this stage in
the
build my recommendations would be to build the airplane stock and
deal
with the idiosyncrasies when it's flying. Which I still hope to
do someday.
Linn
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
11/05/12
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: RE: RV-10 Rudder trim |
Hey Lynn,
No prob. I do get the point that mods add time. I wasn't
happy to have to be one of the early people to deal with
the fuel lines/valve install and things like that, without
may people's examples to look at.
That VAF link you sent is basically my (actuall Vic S's)
rudder trim. It took me one night to cut the hole and
add the doubler and servo. I guess add another evening
for getting the parts painted and ready. But, it was pretty
easy. It wasn't super cheap just because I bought the
Ray Allen parts, but otherwise was not at all complicated
and works really well at least, so the reward paid off.
I think for many things, building per-plans is the best
way to go. There are a handful of things though where
I'm pretty glad I deviated. I was flying in something
like 1700 hours, and probably could have in 1500-1600 if
I hadn't deviated at all. But I'm much happier with my
end result. :)
Happy building!
Tim
On 11/5/2012 9:22 AM, Linn wrote:
> Tim, thanks for your comments. I'm not as eloquent as you are.
> I apologize for giving you the wrong impression.
> My comments were aimed at the increased build time whenever you deviate
> from the plans. The decisions I made have stretched out my build time
> significantly. That's not to say I wouldn't do it again. I'm trying to
> build light ..... and fast .... and safe .... as I can. I wanted to
> convey what happens when you deviate from stock, and the impact it's had
> on /_my_/ build time.
>
> I am frustrated right now, but I've been here before. I am a repeat
> offender. Ah, good to get that off my chest!!!
>
> I had a little knowledge of other trim systems. Here's one solution
> http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=23591 and one
> from Aerosport http://www.aerosportproducts.com/ruddertrim.htm. I
> consider the first a lot of work, and the second far simpler if you like
> bungee trim. My experience with bungee trim hasn't been perfect.
> That's what drove me to the model airplane servo solution. First it was
> just aileron trim, but as long as I had to make the controller, I might
> as well add rudder trim ..... and now I'm thinking of a controllable
> camera mount ..... and the build time gets longer and longer.
>
> Linn ..... wiring .... not flying .... and terribly jealous of those
> that are!!!!
>
>
> On 11/5/2012 9:29 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>>
>> Lynn,
>>
>> Some of this post just gets too out of whack.
>> First, an EFIS isn't that hard to wire. I think most would be
>> almost easier than dealing with some of the things on a 6-pack,
>> like vacuum pumps and lines and additional static/pitot lines.
>> The world isn't a 6-pack panel world anymore, so no use
>> lamenting it...the new stuff CAN be smaller, lighter, and
>> simpler.
>>
>> But where you really go off into the weeds is with the last
>> paragraph. You start talking about how much of a pain
>> in the rear it was to put in trim, and then went on to describe
>> building microcontrollers and how much time that all adds
>> to the build. Well, I'm here to tell you that for
>> MOST people, it's not going to be that tough. First,
>> you can install Geoff's system quickly (I have no first
>> hand experience), from the sounds of it. Second, for people
>> like me who'd prefer an electronic, adjustable tab of
>> some type, you can use standard ray allen components and
>> get the job done very quick. I added rudder trim in one
>> evening, to a flying plane. No need to build special
>> controllers, and certainly it wouldn't even add a week
>> to a person's build time. So you make it sound much more
>> painful than it is.
>>
>> But where you really lose it is this line:
>>
>> "At this stage in the build my recommendations would be to build
>> the airplane stock and deal with the idiosyncrasies when it's
>> flying."
>>
>> You know, there's nothing wrong with going stock, but,
>> for a NON-FLYING builder to make statements like that,
>> you should definitely DEFINITELY qualify that statement
>> clearly to the list....you're someone who HAS NOT THE EXPERIENCE
>> of flying such a creation for any sizeable amount of time,
>> yet you're saying they'd be better off dealing with
>> the idiosyncrasies later? I mean, it's fine to have
>> an opinion and comment, but definitely qualify that
>> statement with "I'm not a flying builder", so at least
>> people know to take the opinion with a grain of salt.
>> Once you've flown it for a while, many of these
>> opinions will become much more valuable.
>>
>>
>> My personal feelings on trim:
>>
>> Aileron trim - You need it, really. Yes, I buy into the KISS
>> principle, but if you're going to hand fly at all, you'll
>> find Aileron trim a necessity in the 10...much more so
>> than any other plane I'd flown in the past.
>>
>> Elevator trim - Not much to say here except I think
>> everyone should have speed control and I personally
>> believe Bob's Safety-Trim or similar featured device
>> should be mandatory install.
>>
>> Rudder trim - This one could well be optional, but I'm
>> much happier in my 615 hours AFTER installing rudder
>> trim than I was in my 288 hours BEFORE installing it.
>> No, I don't adjust it every flight. Maybe not even
>> every 2nd flight. But, if you vary flight loads and
>> airspeeds in cruise and you cruise >500 miles a day,
>> it's likely to be something that people will like.
>> Definitely not a necessity, and a trim wedge or bendable
>> tab would do for many people I'm sure. But, it is
>> a nice option for people flying X/C. On a side note,
>> I'm planning to build an RV-14 hopefully starting
>> soon, and when I build that, I will possibly leave
>> rudder trim OFF of that one. Mainly because I don't
>> want to mess with a control surface too much that I
>> plan to use for some aerobatics. But, I may still
>> add it. If I were building a -10 again, I'd add
>> it for sure...likely do the same as I have, but may
>> consider a notched tab into the rudder. What I have
>> is about as simple as it gets if you have an
>> electric rudder trim though. If I were more of a
>> spring trim guy, I'd go for Geoff's system.
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/4/2012 7:36 AM, Linn wrote:
>>> Hi Carlos.
>>> To answer your question, AFAIK there isn't. Most of the rudder trims
>>> I've seen are wedges affixed to the rudder trailing edge, followed by
>>> hinges operated by Ray Allen trim motors .... followed by by a moveable
>>> tab cut out of the rudder.
>>>
>>> I'm afraid I'm walking down the path to mental illness. That KISS
>>> thingy is starting to look pretty darn good.
>>> I'm wiring. And wiring. And wiring. That 6-pack of steam gauges is
>>> looking better all the time. I have dual, independent flat panels with
>>> autopilot and engine monitor.
>>>
>>> Because I had a stroke of lunacy I am installing the hinge-type trim on
>>> the ailerons and rudder operated by model airplane servos. I had to
>>> build up a mocrocontroller to create the pulse width to operate the
>>> servos, write the code and add a power supply to drop the 12V to 5.
>>> Why? Because I can. But it seems like anytime I deviate from the plans
>>> it adds 6 months to the build time. Some longer. At this stage in the
>>> build my recommendations would be to build the airplane stock and deal
>>> with the idiosyncrasies when it's flying. Which I still hope to do
>>> someday.
>>> Linn
>>>
>>
>>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: RE: RV-10 Rudder trim |
I respect Tim so I=99ll respond here from my perspective. Been
flying for a year- 109 flight hours; just did my conditional inspection.
After 1 year of flying I=99ll state the following. The Stock is
fine but it sure lacks numerous required upgrades however. I was blessed
to have met Don McDonald during my build, a real guru with parts, he
made numerous parts, that (may) still be sold via plane innovations. He
built them for himself without regard for profit. Example are the gear
wheel pant extensions, rock solid and well worth that investment. I have
the Aileron trim, I have not used it much but good to have if I need it,
when I have it. I have the trim tab, works fine for me, no regrets
having the electronic version. I upgraded the front gear axle and wheel,
no regrets, sprayed a ceramic (truck liner) in the cabin, supposed to
minimize noise and temperature control-and painted not needed with good
ANR hedsets- would skip that. Otherwise I am pretty much stock and after
a year of =9Cbreak-in=9D the plane has held up solid and
flew very nicely. I think Tim has the list of items to get for
upgrading. If one uses that list they will be a great shape. I am not
one for adding more and changing the plane unnecessarily. I think after
1 year of fine tuning and constant calls to poor Don, the plane is
complete and I have no regrets of wishing I had added more or I wasted
too much time upgrading something. I think if one gets what is required
and wants to do it inexpensively, it can be done, stock works but not as
well as if it was/is upgraded with better parts and options, just
don=99t spend too much time on forums and getting the latest
upgrade. To be blunt there are still some out there building that were
building before I ever got started- and that means 1 year researching
the RV-10 before I did that first rivet. I have a day job, I got an
average of 2-3 hours in each day and a complete day on the weekends for
4.5 years, minimal help. If it is something that can be done later and
there is doubt, move on. I hate to see projects sitting around for
years, especially those that have avionics, like computers they may be
obsolete by the time you get the plane flying. I have a skyview and it
was released right when I was building the panel. I needed to send some
items back but fortunately I got in right about 1 year after it was
released, it remains being updated and Dynon has been great in support,
but if even if I was not flying the plane THAT too would eventually get
replaced, Vertical Power doesn=99t make the VP-200, a real shame
since that has proven to be well worth the investment I made, in that
case having something old paid off..
It can be done but don=99t get lost doing everything out there.
Tim is a book of knowledge, he knows what he is saying, Linn is right
too. Get the plane flying, if in doubt about something, find a RV-10
somewhere, maybe a flyin and fly the plane to see if you need that
gizmo. If there is someone in SoCal, contact me, love to get you out and
answer any questions.
Pascal
From: Linn
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 7:22 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: RV-10 Rudder trim
Tim, thanks for your comments. I'm not as eloquent as you are.
I apologize for giving you the wrong impression.
My comments were aimed at the increased build time whenever you deviate
from the plans. The decisions I made have stretched out my build time
significantly. That's not to say I wouldn't do it again. I'm trying to
build light ..... and fast .... and safe .... as I can. I wanted to
convey what happens when you deviate from stock, and the impact it's had
on my build time.
I am frustrated right now, but I've been here before. I am a repeat
offender. Ah, good to get that off my chest!!!
I had a little knowledge of other trim systems. Here's one solution
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=23591 and one
from Aerosport http://www.aerosportproducts.com/ruddertrim.htm. I
consider the first a lot of work, and the second far simpler if you like
bungee trim. My experience with bungee trim hasn't been perfect.
That's what drove me to the model airplane servo solution. First it was
just aileron trim, but as long as I had to make the controller, I might
as well add rudder trim ..... and now I'm thinking of a controllable
camera mount ..... and the build time gets longer and longer.
Linn ..... wiring .... not flying .... and terribly jealous of those
that are!!!!
On 11/5/2012 9:29 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
Lynn,
Some of this post just gets too out of whack.
First, an EFIS isn't that hard to wire. I think most would be
almost easier than dealing with some of the things on a 6-pack,
like vacuum pumps and lines and additional static/pitot lines.
The world isn't a 6-pack panel world anymore, so no use
lamenting it...the new stuff CAN be smaller, lighter, and
simpler.
But where you really go off into the weeds is with the last
paragraph. You start talking about how much of a pain
in the rear it was to put in trim, and then went on to describe
building microcontrollers and how much time that all adds
to the build. Well, I'm here to tell you that for
MOST people, it's not going to be that tough. First,
you can install Geoff's system quickly (I have no first
hand experience), from the sounds of it. Second, for people
like me who'd prefer an electronic, adjustable tab of
some type, you can use standard ray allen components and
get the job done very quick. I added rudder trim in one
evening, to a flying plane. No need to build special
controllers, and certainly it wouldn't even add a week
to a person's build time. So you make it sound much more
painful than it is.
But where you really lose it is this line:
"At this stage in the build my recommendations would be to build
the airplane stock and deal with the idiosyncrasies when it's
flying."
You know, there's nothing wrong with going stock, but,
for a NON-FLYING builder to make statements like that,
you should definitely DEFINITELY qualify that statement
clearly to the list....you're someone who HAS NOT THE EXPERIENCE
of flying such a creation for any sizeable amount of time,
yet you're saying they'd be better off dealing with
the idiosyncrasies later? I mean, it's fine to have
an opinion and comment, but definitely qualify that
statement with "I'm not a flying builder", so at least
people know to take the opinion with a grain of salt.
Once you've flown it for a while, many of these
opinions will become much more valuable.
My personal feelings on trim:
Aileron trim - You need it, really. Yes, I buy into the KISS
principle, but if you're going to hand fly at all, you'll
find Aileron trim a necessity in the 10...much more so
than any other plane I'd flown in the past.
Elevator trim - Not much to say here except I think
everyone should have speed control and I personally
believe Bob's Safety-Trim or similar featured device
should be mandatory install.
Rudder trim - This one could well be optional, but I'm
much happier in my 615 hours AFTER installing rudder
trim than I was in my 288 hours BEFORE installing it.
No, I don't adjust it every flight. Maybe not even
every 2nd flight. But, if you vary flight loads and
airspeeds in cruise and you cruise >500 miles a day,
it's likely to be something that people will like.
Definitely not a necessity, and a trim wedge or bendable
tab would do for many people I'm sure. But, it is
a nice option for people flying X/C. On a side note,
I'm planning to build an RV-14 hopefully starting
soon, and when I build that, I will possibly leave
rudder trim OFF of that one. Mainly because I don't
want to mess with a control surface too much that I
plan to use for some aerobatics. But, I may still
add it. If I were building a -10 again, I'd add
it for sure...likely do the same as I have, but may
consider a notched tab into the rudder. What I have
is about as simple as it gets if you have an
electric rudder trim though. If I were more of a
spring trim guy, I'd go for Geoff's system.
Tim
On 11/4/2012 7:36 AM, Linn wrote:
Hi Carlos.
To answer your question, AFAIK there isn't. Most of the rudder
trims
I've seen are wedges affixed to the rudder trailing edge, followed
by
hinges operated by Ray Allen trim motors .... followed by by a
moveable
tab cut out of the rudder.
I'm afraid I'm walking down the path to mental illness. That KISS
thingy is starting to look pretty darn good.
I'm wiring. And wiring. And wiring. That 6-pack of steam gauges
is
looking better all the time. I have dual, independent flat panels
with
autopilot and engine monitor.
Because I had a stroke of lunacy I am installing the hinge-type trim
on
the ailerons and rudder operated by model airplane servos. I had to
build up a mocrocontroller to create the pulse width to operate the
servos, write the code and add a power supply to drop the 12V to 5.
Why? Because I can. But it seems like anytime I deviate from the
plans
it adds 6 months to the build time. Some longer. At this stage in
the
build my recommendations would be to build the airplane stock and
deal
with the idiosyncrasies when it's flying. Which I still hope to do
someday.
Linn
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
11/05/12
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
johngoodman wrote:
> 2 to 3 days is bull. Try 2 to 3 months. I'm retired and I was out there every
day. The most I could stand was about 4 to 5 hours of sanding & filling.
> John
John,
I think the difference of opinion may be in scope definition. The topic was talking
about the interior of the cabin cover, not necessarily the doors and the
exterior. Which I admit does take a significantly greater amount of time.
There is also a difference if you have a green versus a pink top. I don't think
there are too many green tops still left in circulation, so that is good news.
I can tell you that I did finish the interior work on my cabin cover in under forty
hours of effort. Additionally, I finished almost the entire interior, since
it was my cabin cover that Geoff used as a mold for his headliners. It
was glass smooth in preparation for making his molds.
With that said, I did have the proper tools, work environment, and mentoring.
I did this at Geoff's shop and used his equipment. I suspect if I was doing
this at home, without his guidance, it would have added another ten to twenty
hours. For example, I found that sanding screens were more effective that standard
sandpaper. They are more expensive, but allow you to get more work accomplished
in a set amount of time. I also used a polyester filler instead of
micro and epoxy, since these were more cosmetic changes and not structural.
Remember the class that we attended at Dave Saylor's facility? We both learned
some short cuts on trimming the cabin cover. Those tips probably saved me a
few days of frustration with making the initial trim cuts.
Now we won't talk about the weeks I put into the doors and the sides of the cabin
cover that were sanded flat by Van's that I had to rebuild back to follow the
door contour. That was a royal pain in the rear end.
To summarize, those with experience are going to be more proficient. While those
of us newbies are going to take longer unless we get somebody to mentor us
and show us all their tricks of the trade. Your already flying, so my advice
isn't directed towards you. But if you're just starting building, try to hook
up with somebody that has gone before you and learn from their experience.
I'm five years into my build and about ready to fly and I'm still learning new
things daily.
bob
--------
Bob Leffler
N410BL - FWF
RV-10 #40684
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386921#386921
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
I'm at 2-3 months on the interior and still not finished.
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 5, 2012, at 9:40 AM, "rleffler" <rv@thelefflers.com> wrote:
>
>
> johngoodman wrote:
>> 2 to 3 days is bull. Try 2 to 3 months. I'm retired and I was out there every
day. The most I could stand was about 4 to 5 hours of sanding & filling.
>> John
>
>
> John,
>
> I think the difference of opinion may be in scope definition. The topic was
talking about the interior of the cabin cover, not necessarily the doors and the
exterior. Which I admit does take a significantly greater amount of time.
>
> There is also a difference if you have a green versus a pink top. I don't think
there are too many green tops still left in circulation, so that is good news.
>
> I can tell you that I did finish the interior work on my cabin cover in under
forty hours of effort. Additionally, I finished almost the entire interior,
since it was my cabin cover that Geoff used as a mold for his headliners. It
was glass smooth in preparation for making his molds.
>
> With that said, I did have the proper tools, work environment, and mentoring.
I did this at Geoff's shop and used his equipment. I suspect if I was doing
this at home, without his guidance, it would have added another ten to twenty
hours. For example, I found that sanding screens were more effective that standard
sandpaper. They are more expensive, but allow you to get more work accomplished
in a set amount of time. I also used a polyester filler instead
of micro and epoxy, since these were more cosmetic changes and not structural.
Remember the class that we attended at Dave Saylor's facility? We both learned
some short cuts on trimming the cabin cover. Those tips probably saved me
a few days of frustration with making the initial trim cuts.
>
> Now we won't talk about the weeks I put into the doors and the sides of the cabin
cover that were sanded flat by Van's that I had to rebuild back to follow
the door contour. That was a royal pain in the rear end.
>
> To summarize, those with experience are going to be more proficient. While those
of us newbies are going to take longer unless we get somebody to mentor us
and show us all their tricks of the trade. Your already flying, so my advice
isn't directed towards you. But if you're just starting building, try to hook
up with somebody that has gone before you and learn from their experience.
I'm five years into my build and about ready to fly and I'm still learning
new things daily.
>
> bob
>
> --------
> Bob Leffler
> N410BL - FWF
> RV-10 #40684
> http://mykitlog.com/rleffler
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386921#386921
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
Let me clarify my statement again. I am talking about just prepping the
inside of the cabin top
For final paint. Not installing overhead consoles attaching doors, putting
light wiring in, GPS
Antennas ETC. Just finishing the inside of the cabin top. To before final
paint or primer stage.
This is also If you use a spray able body filler. Also the green tops are
way worse than the pink tops.
Using a DA sander with a screen type paper As Bob mentioned makes a big
difference.
Geoff Combs
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phil Perry
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Opinion please
I'm at 2-3 months on the interior and still not finished.
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 5, 2012, at 9:40 AM, "rleffler" <rv@thelefflers.com> wrote:
>
>
> johngoodman wrote:
>> 2 to 3 days is bull. Try 2 to 3 months. I'm retired and I was out there
every day. The most I could stand was about 4 to 5 hours of sanding &
filling.
>> John
>
>
> John,
>
> I think the difference of opinion may be in scope definition. The topic
was talking about the interior of the cabin cover, not necessarily the doors
and the exterior. Which I admit does take a significantly greater amount of
time.
>
> There is also a difference if you have a green versus a pink top. I don't
think there are too many green tops still left in circulation, so that is
good news.
>
> I can tell you that I did finish the interior work on my cabin cover in
under forty hours of effort. Additionally, I finished almost the entire
interior, since it was my cabin cover that Geoff used as a mold for his
headliners. It was glass smooth in preparation for making his molds.
>
> With that said, I did have the proper tools, work environment, and
mentoring. I did this at Geoff's shop and used his equipment. I suspect
if I was doing this at home, without his guidance, it would have added
another ten to twenty hours. For example, I found that sanding screens were
more effective that standard sandpaper. They are more expensive, but allow
you to get more work accomplished in a set amount of time. I also used a
polyester filler instead of micro and epoxy, since these were more cosmetic
changes and not structural. Remember the class that we attended at Dave
Saylor's facility? We both learned some short cuts on trimming the cabin
cover. Those tips probably saved me a few days of frustration with making
the initial trim cuts.
>
> Now we won't talk about the weeks I put into the doors and the sides of
the cabin cover that were sanded flat by Van's that I had to rebuild back to
follow the door contour. That was a royal pain in the rear end.
>
> To summarize, those with experience are going to be more proficient.
While those of us newbies are going to take longer unless we get somebody to
mentor us and show us all their tricks of the trade. Your already flying,
so my advice isn't directed towards you. But if you're just starting
building, try to hook up with somebody that has gone before you and learn
from their experience. I'm five years into my build and about ready to fly
and I'm still learning new things daily.
>
> bob
>
> --------
> Bob Leffler
> N410BL - FWF
> RV-10 #40684
> http://mykitlog.com/rleffler
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386921#386921
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
OK, I'm green with envy!!!
I used a 4" angle grinder where they glopped (scientific term) the FG in
places inside my green top and to shape the door openings. I plan on
using a light color Zolatone to finish the inside and will concentrate
on a good paint base on the outside..
Linn .... wiring ... not flying
On 11/5/2012 2:48 PM, Geoff Combs wrote:
>
> Let me clarify my statement again. I am talking about just prepping the
> inside of the cabin top
> For final paint. Not installing overhead consoles attaching doors, putting
> light wiring in, GPS
> Antennas ETC. Just finishing the inside of the cabin top. To before final
> paint or primer stage.
>
> This is also If you use a spray able body filler. Also the green tops are
> way worse than the pink tops.
> Using a DA sander with a screen type paper As Bob mentioned makes a big
> difference.
>
>
> Geoff Combs
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | RE: RV-10 Rudder trim |
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Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: RE: RV-10 Rudder trim |
Robin - got any pictures of how the lever arm is set up inside so it all
fits with nothing exposed?
Bob
On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Robin Marks <robin@painttheweb.com> wrote:
> Regarding Rudder Trim I have shared my link in the past to the trim on
> my -10::****
>
> http://painttheweb.com/painttheweb/rv-10/RudderTrim.aspx****
>
> It was our first attempt and was done on an already built rudder. No
> problems, works great and I am very happy to have electric rudder trim. N
o
> need for the position sensor because you can use your ball as the positio
n
> indicator. ****
>
> On my 8A Rudder Trim which was also installed on an already built rudder
> (we never do anything the easy way!) we were able to get the entire leave
r
> arm inside the rudder so no additional items sticking out into the wind.
> This one turned out ultra clean and looks great (IMHO). It also functions
> well in flight. Servicing the trim mechanism is as simple as removing the
4
> #8 screws and pulling out the trim tab and attached servo tray (much like
> pictured on the -10 but w/o the position sensor).****
>
> ** **
>
> Robin****
>
> ** **
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Pascal
> *Sent:* Monday, November 05, 2012 8:08 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: RE: RV-10 Rudder trim****
>
> ** **
>
> I respect Tim so I=99ll respond here from my perspective. Been flyi
ng for a
> year- 109 flight hours; just did my conditional inspection. After 1 year
of
> flying I=99ll state the following. The Stock is fine but it sure la
cks
> numerous required upgrades however. I was blessed to have met Don McDonal
d
> during my build, a real guru with parts, he made numerous parts, that (ma
y)
> still be sold via plane innovations. He built them for himself without
> regard for profit. Example are the gear wheel pant extensions, rock solid
> and well worth that investment. I have the Aileron trim, I have not used
it
> much but good to have if I need it, when I have it. I have the trim tab,
> works fine for me, no regrets having the electronic version. I upgraded t
he
> front gear axle and wheel, no regrets, sprayed a ceramic (truck liner) in
> the cabin, supposed to minimize noise and temperature control-and painted
> not needed with good ANR hedsets- would skip that. Otherwise I am pretty
> much stock and after a year of =9Cbreak-in=9D the plane has h
eld up solid and
> flew very nicely. I think Tim has the list of items to get for upgrading.
> If one uses that list they will be a great shape. I am not one for adding
> more and changing the plane unnecessarily. I think after 1 year of fine
> tuning and constant calls to poor Don, the plane is complete and I have n
o
> regrets of wishing I had added more or I wasted too much time upgrading
> something. I think if one gets what is required and wants to do it
> inexpensively, it can be done, stock works but not as well as if it was/i
s
> upgraded with better parts and options, just don=99t spend too much
time on
> forums and getting the latest upgrade. To be blunt there are still some o
ut
> there building that were building before I ever got started- and that mea
ns
> 1 year researching the RV-10 before I did that first rivet. I have a day
> job, I got an average of 2-3 hours in each day and a complete day on the
> weekends for 4.5 years, minimal help. If it is something that can be done
> later and there is doubt, move on. I hate to see projects sitting around
> for years, especially those that have avionics, like computers they may b
e
> obsolete by the time you get the plane flying. I have a skyview and it wa
s
> released right when I was building the panel. I needed to send some items
> back but fortunately I got in right about 1 year after it was released, i
t
> remains being updated and Dynon has been great in support, but if even if
I
> was not flying the plane THAT too would eventually get replaced, Vertical
> Power doesn=99t make the VP-200, a real shame since that has proven
to be
> well worth the investment I made, in that case having something old paid
> off.. ****
>
> It can be done but don=99t get lost doing everything out there. Tim
is a
> book of knowledge, he knows what he is saying, Linn is right too. Get the
> plane flying, if in doubt about something, find a RV-10 somewhere, maybe
a
> flyin and fly the plane to see if you need that gizmo. If there is someon
e
> in SoCal, contact me, love to get you out and answer any questions.****
>
> Pascal ****
>
> ****
>
> *From:* Linn <flying-nut@cfl.rr.com> ****
>
> *Sent:* Monday, November 05, 2012 7:22 AM****
>
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com ****
>
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: RE: RV-10 Rudder trim****
>
> ****
>
> Tim, thanks for your comments. I'm not as eloquent as you are.
> I apologize for giving you the wrong impression.
> My comments were aimed at the increased build time whenever you deviate
> from the plans. The decisions I made have stretched out my build time
> significantly. That's not to say I wouldn't do it again. I'm trying to
> build light ..... and fast .... and safe .... as I can. I wanted to conv
ey
> what happens when you deviate from stock, and the impact it's had on *my*
build time.
>
> I am frustrated right now, but I've been here before. I am a repeat
> offender. Ah, good to get that off my chest!!!
>
> I had a little knowledge of other trim systems. Here's one solution
> http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=23591 and one fr
om
> Aerosport http://www.aerosportproducts.com/ruddertrim.htm. I consider
> the first a lot of work, and the second far simpler if you like bungee
> trim. My experience with bungee trim hasn't been perfect. That's what
> drove me to the model airplane servo solution. First it was just aileron
> trim, but as long as I had to make the controller, I might as well add
> rudder trim ..... and now I'm thinking of a controllable camera mount ...
..
> and the build time gets longer and longer.
>
> Linn ..... wiring .... not flying .... and terribly jealous of those that
> are!!!!
>
>
> On 11/5/2012 9:29 AM, Tim Olson wrote:****
>
10.com>
>
> Lynn,
>
> Some of this post just gets too out of whack.
> First, an EFIS isn't that hard to wire. I think most would be
> almost easier than dealing with some of the things on a 6-pack,
> like vacuum pumps and lines and additional static/pitot lines.
> The world isn't a 6-pack panel world anymore, so no use
> lamenting it...the new stuff CAN be smaller, lighter, and
> simpler.
>
> But where you really go off into the weeds is with the last
> paragraph. You start talking about how much of a pain
> in the rear it was to put in trim, and then went on to describe
> building microcontrollers and how much time that all adds
> to the build. Well, I'm here to tell you that for
> MOST people, it's not going to be that tough. First,
> you can install Geoff's system quickly (I have no first
> hand experience), from the sounds of it. Second, for people
> like me who'd prefer an electronic, adjustable tab of
> some type, you can use standard ray allen components and
> get the job done very quick. I added rudder trim in one
> evening, to a flying plane. No need to build special
> controllers, and certainly it wouldn't even add a week
> to a person's build time. So you make it sound much more
> painful than it is.
>
> But where you really lose it is this line:
>
> "At this stage in the build my recommendations would be to build
> the airplane stock and deal with the idiosyncrasies when it's
> flying."
>
> You know, there's nothing wrong with going stock, but,
> for a NON-FLYING builder to make statements like that,
> you should definitely DEFINITELY qualify that statement
> clearly to the list....you're someone who HAS NOT THE EXPERIENCE
> of flying such a creation for any sizeable amount of time,
> yet you're saying they'd be better off dealing with
> the idiosyncrasies later? I mean, it's fine to have
> an opinion and comment, but definitely qualify that
> statement with "I'm not a flying builder", so at least
> people know to take the opinion with a grain of salt.
> Once you've flown it for a while, many of these
> opinions will become much more valuable.
>
>
> My personal feelings on trim:
>
> Aileron trim - You need it, really. Yes, I buy into the KISS
> principle, but if you're going to hand fly at all, you'll
> find Aileron trim a necessity in the 10...much more so
> than any other plane I'd flown in the past.
>
> Elevator trim - Not much to say here except I think
> everyone should have speed control and I personally
> believe Bob's Safety-Trim or similar featured device
> should be mandatory install.
>
> Rudder trim - This one could well be optional, but I'm
> much happier in my 615 hours AFTER installing rudder
> trim than I was in my 288 hours BEFORE installing it.
> No, I don't adjust it every flight. Maybe not even
> every 2nd flight. But, if you vary flight loads and
> airspeeds in cruise and you cruise >500 miles a day,
> it's likely to be something that people will like.
> Definitely not a necessity, and a trim wedge or bendable
> tab would do for many people I'm sure. But, it is
> a nice option for people flying X/C. On a side note,
> I'm planning to build an RV-14 hopefully starting
> soon, and when I build that, I will possibly leave
> rudder trim OFF of that one. Mainly because I don't
> want to mess with a control surface too much that I
> plan to use for some aerobatics. But, I may still
> add it. If I were building a -10 again, I'd add
> it for sure...likely do the same as I have, but may
> consider a notched tab into the rudder. What I have
> is about as simple as it gets if you have an
> electric rudder trim though. If I were more of a
> spring trim guy, I'd go for Geoff's system.
> Tim
>
>
> On 11/4/2012 7:36 AM, Linn wrote:
>
> ****
>
> Hi Carlos.
> To answer your question, AFAIK there isn't. Most of the rudder trims
> I've seen are wedges affixed to the rudder trailing edge, followed by
> hinges operated by Ray Allen trim motors .... followed by by a moveable
> tab cut out of the rudder.
>
> I'm afraid I'm walking down the path to mental illness. That KISS
> thingy is starting to look pretty darn good.
> I'm wiring. And wiring. And wiring. That 6-pack of steam gauges is
> looking better all the time. I have dual, independent flat panels with
> autopilot and engine monitor.
>
> Because I had a stroke of lunacy I am installing the hinge-type trim on
> the ailerons and rudder operated by model airplane servos. I had to
> build up a mocrocontroller to create the pulse width to operate the
> servos, write the code and add a power supply to drop the 12V to 5.
> Why? Because I can. But it seems like anytime I deviate from the plans
> it adds 6 months to the build time. Some longer. At this stage in the
> build my recommendations would be to build the airplane stock and deal
> with the idiosyncrasies when it's flying. Which I still hope to do
> someday.
> Linn ****
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 11/05/12
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com*
>
> *href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com*
>
> *href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com*
>
> *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?RV10-List <http://www.matronics.com/chref=%22http:/www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List%22%3ehttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10
-List>*
>
> *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
============*
>
>
============*
>
>
============*
>
>
============*
>
> * *
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: aileron trim |
It was a break through moment for my training at the time (1970). I
tried to do it with my Maule but could never quite pull it off. Way too
much coupling of engine power and pitch (my description).
I have 2 axis trim. You'll love the electric pitch trim - definitely
have a hat button on your stick. You'll barely if ever use the aileron
trim but it's a good way to set a neutral point for your flying. I half
installed a spring based rudder trim system anticipating the need for
it. It will never go in. In cruise I find the rudder system just
sticky enough to hold enough right rudder to center the ball. Plus I've
never been comfortable with both feet on the floor all the time - too
much Maule time I guess. I generally cruise with my right toe on the pedal.
I included TCW's Safety Trim 2 axis controller. It is designed to
prevent overruns and to provide a means of recovery from such an
overrun. The feature that is on all the time limits trim operation to 3
seconds at a time. I find that very handy for calibrating the amount of
trim I want to apply. For example, before takeoff, (2) 3 second runs of
down trim give me an acceptable trim position for a home field takeoff
with flaps. I have position indicators setup on my GRTs but they are
not consistently accurate so the 3 second runs are very handy for gross
trim adjustments. Plus with hat switches on both sticks, an errant
hand, arm, foot can't put the aircraft out of control.
And you'll definitely want your AP (assuming you are putting one in) to
control your pitch trim. The TruTrak operation of the elevator trim is
seamless and accurate.
But of course, we all like what we installed in the plane and don't need
the features we didn't install....
Bill Watson
On 11/3/2012 9:52 PM, Rick Lark wrote:
> Bill, funny you would mention the circuit thing, as I too had a
> primary flight instructor 35 years ago show and teach me the exact
> same thing. No hands on the column, feet on the rudder peddles and
> using elevator trim/power to descend etc. To this day I use rudder
> and elevator trim all the time when flying my C-177B.
> Having said that, there is something to be said about the KISS
> principle. None the less I've installed trim for all 3 axis.
> Can't wait to use the electric trim in the -10.
> Rick
> #40956
> Southampton, Ont
>
> On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 2:36 PM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com
> <mailto:Mauledriver@nc.rr.com>> wrote:
>
> Funny you should mention the complete circuit using trim. Years
> ago when trying to learn to land a C150 at age 16, the instructor
> flew the pattern with trim-only. Pitch trim that is, and rudder
> and power of course. It showed me how unnnecessary my death grip
> on the yoke was.
>
> Anyway, does that mean that the MD-11 A/P didn't operate the trim
> when engaged? Or was it just a good habit that shouldn't be broken?
>
> Bill "still thinks his TruTrak AP is a magical gift from the gods"
> Watson
> : 11/05/12
>
do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
I wish I had known about the Duratec product (a polyester grey surfacing
primer). The stuff works like I wished the epoxy based Dupont product I
used would work. I didn't use it on anything until after I finished.
The workability of the Duratec product makes all this work MUCH easier
and productive.
Bill
On 11/3/2012 10:23 PM, g.combs wrote:
>
> I recommend finishing the entire inside of the cabin top off like the outside
of the airplane. Sand and fill
> As required. It will take 2-3 days and a lot of elbow grease but when done it
will look much better
> Than doing minimal work. There is a spray primer called duratec the is a 2 part
sprayable body filler. Once you work out the real bad spots and sand spray
a good heavy coat on the entire inside of the cabin top. Block it out almost back
to the raw fiber glass and do it one more time. Then it should be very close
to final paint. Do all this before attaching the cabin top to the fuse.
> If using a overhead console you can omit doing the area under the console but
do everything
> Else. Paint and complete entire cabin top install lights or what ever you want
before installing.
> Life will be much easier and the results will be very gratifying.
>
> FWIW
>
> Geoff
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Nov 3, 2012, at 9:42 PM, Bob Leffler <rv@thelefflers.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Ed,
>>
>> As others have mentioned, there are multiple solutions available. My first
recommendation is to get the Aerosport Products headliner from Geoff. That will
cover 2/3 of the cabin cover. You won't have to sand or fill anything covered
by the headliner. If you get his overhead console, that will even cover
up more area.
>>
>> I used USC Auto Body Icing, but there are other similar products available..
I found it easier to work with than plain micro. There is a fair amount of
filling and sanding to get everything smooth.
>>
>> Just don't attach the cabin cover to the fuselage until the end. It's a lot
easier to work on upside down on the bench.
>>
>> Bob
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Nov 3, 2012, at 7:07 PM, Ed Godfrey <egodfrey@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Listers,
>>> I am working on finishing the inside of the cabin top and I have a question
about one area. In the attached photo, there is a shiny area on the vertical
portion of the door opening. It has been suggested that it may be some
remnants of peel-ply that was not removed at the factory. If that is the case,
do I need to try to remove it, should I sand it away, or can I just use Superfil
over it as it is? Thanks.
>>>
>>> <IMG_1404.JPG>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ed Godfrey
>>> 40717
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
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| Subject: | RE: RV-10 Rudder trim |
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Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Rudder trim |
Hey Tim
I was planning to install a rudder trim on the 14 just like I did on the 10, til
I read your previous post. I hadn't thought of the aerobatic part. I will cancel
that thought , Thanks Ron
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386978#386978
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
Hey Bill/Geoff,
I'm always open to new stuff ... never heard of Duratec. I googled it, is
it DURA-707G? They have all kinds of products. I've used the Dupont/Nason
2K epoxy primer for many years, so I'm comfortable with the way it fills,
sands AND bonds with the finish coat. I don't want to be the first one to
put a new product under automotive paint only to find out later that it
doesn't adhere. I essentially agree with the primer war conclusions: use
the primer that the finish coat recommends.
Later, - Lew "looking for more specifics" Gallagher
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Rudder trim |
I'm not considering it a 100% done deal yet...I may add it, but,
I don't think it's 100% needed, and it does take one thing out
of the mix that could go wrong on an aerobatic plane. So, I'm
not sure.
Tim
On 11/5/2012 6:40 PM, Ron B. wrote:
>
> Hey Tim
> I was planning to install a rudder trim on the 14 just like I did on the 10,
til I read your previous post. I hadn't thought of the aerobatic part. I will
cancel that thought , Thanks Ron
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386978#386978
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: RE: RV-10 Rudder trim |
Well said, Tim!
grumpy
N184JM
Do Not Archive
On Nov 5, 2012, at 8:29 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Lynn,
>
> Some of this post just gets too out of whack.
> First, an EFIS isn't that hard to wire. I think most would be
> almost easier than dealing with some of the things on a 6-pack,
> like vacuum pumps and lines and additional static/pitot lines.
> The world isn't a 6-pack panel world anymore, so no use
> lamenting it...the new stuff CAN be smaller, lighter, and
> simpler.
>
> But where you really go off into the weeds is with the last
> paragraph. You start talking about how much of a pain
> in the rear it was to put in trim, and then went on to describe
> building microcontrollers and how much time that all adds
> to the build. Well, I'm here to tell you that for
> MOST people, it's not going to be that tough. First,
> you can install Geoff's system quickly (I have no first
> hand experience), from the sounds of it. Second, for people
> like me who'd prefer an electronic, adjustable tab of
> some type, you can use standard ray allen components and
> get the job done very quick. I added rudder trim in one
> evening, to a flying plane. No need to build special
> controllers, and certainly it wouldn't even add a week
> to a person's build time. So you make it sound much more
> painful than it is.
>
> But where you really lose it is this line:
>
> "At this stage in the build my recommendations would be to build
> the airplane stock and deal with the idiosyncrasies when it's
> flying."
>
> You know, there's nothing wrong with going stock, but,
> for a NON-FLYING builder to make statements like that,
> you should definitely DEFINITELY qualify that statement
> clearly to the list....you're someone who HAS NOT THE EXPERIENCE
> of flying such a creation for any sizeable amount of time,
> yet you're saying they'd be better off dealing with
> the idiosyncrasies later? I mean, it's fine to have
> an opinion and comment, but definitely qualify that
> statement with "I'm not a flying builder", so at least
> people know to take the opinion with a grain of salt.
> Once you've flown it for a while, many of these
> opinions will become much more valuable.
>
>
> My personal feelings on trim:
>
> Aileron trim - You need it, really. Yes, I buy into the KISS
> principle, but if you're going to hand fly at all, you'll
> find Aileron trim a necessity in the 10...much more so
> than any other plane I'd flown in the past.
>
> Elevator trim - Not much to say here except I think
> everyone should have speed control and I personally
> believe Bob's Safety-Trim or similar featured device
> should be mandatory install.
>
> Rudder trim - This one could well be optional, but I'm
> much happier in my 615 hours AFTER installing rudder
> trim than I was in my 288 hours BEFORE installing it.
> No, I don't adjust it every flight. Maybe not even
> every 2nd flight. But, if you vary flight loads and
> airspeeds in cruise and you cruise >500 miles a day,
> it's likely to be something that people will like.
> Definitely not a necessity, and a trim wedge or bendable
> tab would do for many people I'm sure. But, it is
> a nice option for people flying X/C. On a side note,
> I'm planning to build an RV-14 hopefully starting
> soon, and when I build that, I will possibly leave
> rudder trim OFF of that one. Mainly because I don't
> want to mess with a control surface too much that I
> plan to use for some aerobatics. But, I may still
> add it. If I were building a -10 again, I'd add
> it for sure...likely do the same as I have, but may
> consider a notched tab into the rudder. What I have
> is about as simple as it gets if you have an
> electric rudder trim though. If I were more of a
> spring trim guy, I'd go for Geoff's system.
> Tim
>
>
>
> On 11/4/2012 7:36 AM, Linn wrote:
>> Hi Carlos.
>> To answer your question, AFAIK there isn't. Most of the rudder trims
>> I've seen are wedges affixed to the rudder trailing edge, followed by
>> hinges operated by Ray Allen trim motors .... followed by by a moveable
>> tab cut out of the rudder.
>>
>> I'm afraid I'm walking down the path to mental illness. That KISS
>> thingy is starting to look pretty darn good.
>> I'm wiring. And wiring. And wiring. That 6-pack of steam gauges is
>> looking better all the time. I have dual, independent flat panels with
>> autopilot and engine monitor.
>>
>> Because I had a stroke of lunacy I am installing the hinge-type trim on
>> the ailerons and rudder operated by model airplane servos. I had to
>> build up a mocrocontroller to create the pulse width to operate the
>> servos, write the code and add a power supply to drop the 12V to 5.
>> Why? Because I can. But it seems like anytime I deviate from the plans
>> it adds 6 months to the build time. Some longer. At this stage in the
>> build my recommendations would be to build the airplane stock and deal
>> with the idiosyncrasies when it's flying. Which I still hope to do someday.
>> Linn
>>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: RE: RV-10 Rudder trim |
Nice Robin. I wish I'd have seen that before I build my version. Well
done.
Rick
#40956
Southampton, Ont
On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 6:52 PM, Robin Marks <robin@painttheweb.com> wrote:
> Why since you asked so nicely here you go****
>
> Robin****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Bob Condrey
> *Sent:* Monday, November 05, 2012 2:07 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: RE: RV-10 Rudder trim****
>
> ** **
>
> Robin - got any pictures of how the lever arm is set up inside so it all
> fits with nothing exposed?****
>
> ****
>
> Bob****
>
> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Robin Marks <robin@painttheweb.com> wrote
:
> ****
>
> Regarding Rudder Trim I have shared my link in the past to the trim on my
> -10::****
>
> http://painttheweb.com/painttheweb/rv-10/RudderTrim.aspx****
>
> It was our first attempt and was done on an already built rudder. No
> problems, works great and I am very happy to have electric rudder trim. N
o
> need for the position sensor because you can use your ball as the positio
n
> indicator. ****
>
> On my 8A Rudder Trim which was also installed on an already built rudder
> (we never do anything the easy way!) we were able to get the entire leave
r
> arm inside the rudder so no additional items sticking out into the wind.
> This one turned out ultra clean and looks great (IMHO). It also functions
> well in flight. Servicing the trim mechanism is as simple as removing the
4
> #8 screws and pulling out the trim tab and attached servo tray (much like
> pictured on the -10 but w/o the position sensor).****
>
> ****
>
> Robin****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Pascal
> *Sent:* Monday, November 05, 2012 8:08 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: RE: RV-10 Rudder trim****
>
> ****
>
> I respect Tim so I=99ll respond here from my perspective. Been flyi
ng for a
> year- 109 flight hours; just did my conditional inspection. After 1 year
of
> flying I=99ll state the following. The Stock is fine but it sure la
cks
> numerous required upgrades however. I was blessed to have met Don McDonal
d
> during my build, a real guru with parts, he made numerous parts, that (ma
y)
> still be sold via plane innovations. He built them for himself without
> regard for profit. Example are the gear wheel pant extensions, rock solid
> and well worth that investment. I have the Aileron trim, I have not used
it
> much but good to have if I need it, when I have it. I have the trim tab,
> works fine for me, no regrets having the electronic version. I upgraded t
he
> front gear axle and wheel, no regrets, sprayed a ceramic (truck liner) in
> the cabin, supposed to minimize noise and temperature control-and painted
> not needed with good ANR hedsets- would skip that. Otherwise I am pretty
> much stock and after a year of =9Cbreak-in=9D the plane has h
eld up solid and
> flew very nicely. I think Tim has the list of items to get for upgrading.
> If one uses that list they will be a great shape. I am not one for adding
> more and changing the plane unnecessarily. I think after 1 year of fine
> tuning and constant calls to poor Don, the plane is complete and I have n
o
> regrets of wishing I had added more or I wasted too much time upgrading
> something. I think if one gets what is required and wants to do it
> inexpensively, it can be done, stock works but not as well as if it was/i
s
> upgraded with better parts and options, just don=99t spend too much
time on
> forums and getting the latest upgrade. To be blunt there are still some o
ut
> there building that were building before I ever got started- and that mea
ns
> 1 year researching the RV-10 before I did that first rivet. I have a day
> job, I got an average of 2-3 hours in each day and a complete day on the
> weekends for 4.5 years, minimal help. If it is something that can be done
> later and there is doubt, move on. I hate to see projects sitting around
> for years, especially those that have avionics, like computers they may b
e
> obsolete by the time you get the plane flying. I have a skyview and it wa
s
> released right when I was building the panel. I needed to send some items
> back but fortunately I got in right about 1 year after it was released, i
t
> remains being updated and Dynon has been great in support, but if even if
I
> was not flying the plane THAT too would eventually get replaced, Vertical
> Power doesn=99t make the VP-200, a real shame since that has proven
to be
> well worth the investment I made, in that case having something old paid
> off.. ****
>
> It can be done but don=99t get lost doing everything out there. Tim
is a
> book of knowledge, he knows what he is saying, Linn is right too. Get the
> plane flying, if in doubt about something, find a RV-10 somewhere, maybe
a
> flyin and fly the plane to see if you need that gizmo. If there is someon
e
> in SoCal, contact me, love to get you out and answer any questions.****
>
> Pascal ****
>
> ****
>
> *From:* Linn <flying-nut@cfl.rr.com> ****
>
> *Sent:* Monday, November 05, 2012 7:22 AM****
>
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com ****
>
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: RE: RV-10 Rudder trim****
>
> ****
>
> Tim, thanks for your comments. I'm not as eloquent as you are.
> I apologize for giving you the wrong impression.
> My comments were aimed at the increased build time whenever you deviate
> from the plans. The decisions I made have stretched out my build time
> significantly. That's not to say I wouldn't do it again. I'm trying to
> build light ..... and fast .... and safe .... as I can. I wanted to conv
ey
> what happens when you deviate from stock, and the impact it's had on *my*
build time.
>
> I am frustrated right now, but I've been here before. I am a repeat
> offender. Ah, good to get that off my chest!!!
>
> I had a little knowledge of other trim systems. Here's one solution
> http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=23591 and one fr
om
> Aerosport http://www.aerosportproducts.com/ruddertrim.htm. I consider
> the first a lot of work, and the second far simpler if you like bungee
> trim. My experience with bungee trim hasn't been perfect. That's what
> drove me to the model airplane servo solution. First it was just aileron
> trim, but as long as I had to make the controller, I might as well add
> rudder trim ..... and now I'm thinking of a controllable camera mount ...
..
> and the build time gets longer and longer.
>
> Linn ..... wiring .... not flying .... and terribly jealous of those that
> are!!!!
>
>
> On 11/5/2012 9:29 AM, Tim Olson wrote:****
>
10.com>
>
> Lynn,
>
> Some of this post just gets too out of whack.
> First, an EFIS isn't that hard to wire. I think most would be
> almost easier than dealing with some of the things on a 6-pack,
> like vacuum pumps and lines and additional static/pitot lines.
> The world isn't a 6-pack panel world anymore, so no use
> lamenting it...the new stuff CAN be smaller, lighter, and
> simpler.
>
> But where you really go off into the weeds is with the last
> paragraph. You start talking about how much of a pain
> in the rear it was to put in trim, and then went on to describe
> building microcontrollers and how much time that all adds
> to the build. Well, I'm here to tell you that for
> MOST people, it's not going to be that tough. First,
> you can install Geoff's system quickly (I have no first
> hand experience), from the sounds of it. Second, for people
> like me who'd prefer an electronic, adjustable tab of
> some type, you can use standard ray allen components and
> get the job done very quick. I added rudder trim in one
> evening, to a flying plane. No need to build special
> controllers, and certainly it wouldn't even add a week
> to a person's build time. So you make it sound much more
> painful than it is.
>
> But where you really lose it is this line:
>
> "At this stage in the build my recommendations would be to build
> the airplane stock and deal with the idiosyncrasies when it's
> flying."
>
> You know, there's nothing wrong with going stock, but,
> for a NON-FLYING builder to make statements like that,
> you should definitely DEFINITELY qualify that statement
> clearly to the list....you're someone who HAS NOT THE EXPERIENCE
> of flying such a creation for any sizeable amount of time,
> yet you're saying they'd be better off dealing with
> the idiosyncrasies later? I mean, it's fine to have
> an opinion and comment, but definitely qualify that
> statement with "I'm not a flying builder", so at least
> people know to take the opinion with a grain of salt.
> Once you've flown it for a while, many of these
> opinions will become much more valuable.
>
>
> My personal feelings on trim:
>
> Aileron trim - You need it, really. Yes, I buy into the KISS
> principle, but if you're going to hand fly at all, you'll
> find Aileron trim a necessity in the 10...much more so
> than any other plane I'd flown in the past.
>
> Elevator trim - Not much to say here except I think
> everyone should have speed control and I personally
> believe Bob's Safety-Trim or similar featured device
> should be mandatory install.
>
> Rudder trim - This one could well be optional, but I'm
> much happier in my 615 hours AFTER installing rudder
> trim than I was in my 288 hours BEFORE installing it.
> No, I don't adjust it every flight. Maybe not even
> every 2nd flight. But, if you vary flight loads and
> airspeeds in cruise and you cruise >500 miles a day,
> it's likely to be something that people will like.
> Definitely not a necessity, and a trim wedge or bendable
> tab would do for many people I'm sure. But, it is
> a nice option for people flying X/C. On a side note,
> I'm planning to build an RV-14 hopefully starting
> soon, and when I build that, I will possibly leave
> rudder trim OFF of that one. Mainly because I don't
> want to mess with a control surface too much that I
> plan to use for some aerobatics. But, I may still
> add it. If I were building a -10 again, I'd add
> it for sure...likely do the same as I have, but may
> consider a notched tab into the rudder. What I have
> is about as simple as it gets if you have an
> electric rudder trim though. If I were more of a
> spring trim guy, I'd go for Geoff's system.
> Tim
>
>
> On 11/4/2012 7:36 AM, Linn wrote: ****
>
> Hi Carlos.
> To answer your question, AFAIK there isn't. Most of the rudder trims
> I've seen are wedges affixed to the rudder trailing edge, followed by
> hinges operated by Ray Allen trim motors .... followed by by a moveable
> tab cut out of the rudder.
>
> I'm afraid I'm walking down the path to mental illness. That KISS
> thingy is starting to look pretty darn good.
> I'm wiring. And wiring. And wiring. That 6-pack of steam gauges is
> looking better all the time. I have dual, independent flat panels with
> autopilot and engine monitor.
>
> Because I had a stroke of lunacy I am installing the hinge-type trim on
> the ailerons and rudder operated by model airplane servos. I had to
> build up a mocrocontroller to create the pulse width to operate the
> servos, write the code and add a power supply to drop the 12V to 5.
> Why? Because I can. But it seems like anytime I deviate from the plans
> it adds 6 months to the build time. Some longer. At this stage in the
> build my recommendations would be to build the airplane stock and deal
> with the idiosyncrasies when it's flying. Which I still hope to do
> someday.
> Linn ****
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 11/05/12 ****
>
> ****
>
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Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
Lew it is not a primer but a sprayable filler. You still need to put a primer coat
on.
Never had a problem with it and have used it for years.
Geoff
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 5, 2012, at 7:49 PM, <lewgall@charter.net> wrote:
>
> Hey Bill/Geoff,
>
> I'm always open to new stuff ... never heard of Duratec. I googled it, is it
DURA-707G? They have all kinds of products. I've used the Dupont/Nason 2K epoxy
primer for many years, so I'm comfortable with the way it fills, sands AND
bonds with the finish coat. I don't want to be the first one to put a new product
under automotive paint only to find out later that it doesn't adhere.
I essentially agree with the primer war conclusions: use the primer that the
finish coat recommends.
>
> Later, - Lew "looking for more specifics" Gallagher
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
DURA-707G?
-----Original Message-----
From: g.combs
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 10:09 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Opinion please
Lew it is not a primer but a sprayable filler. You still need to put a
primer coat on.
Never had a problem with it and have used it for years.
Geoff
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
Dura tech 707-002
Geoff
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 5, 2012, at 10:27 PM, <lewgall@charter.net> wrote:
>
> DURA-707G?
>
> -----Original Message----- From: g.combs
> Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 10:09 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Opinion please
>
>
> Lew it is not a primer but a sprayable filler. You still need to put a primer
coat on.
> Never had a problem with it and have used it for years.
>
> Geoff
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
> Remember the class that we attended at Dave Saylor's facility? We both learned
some short cuts on trimming the cabin cover. Those tips probably saved me a
few days of frustration with making the initial trim cuts.
>
Bob, Yes I do. Probably the best learning experience I ever had as far as the RV
building process. But, telling somebody that it only takes 2 to three days to
do the doors/canopy - or any part of it - is a joke.
Going back, my experience with you guys and Dave Saylor, was probably the thing
that made it work for me. The metal on the RV-10 is pretty easy and straight
forward, the fiberglass on the other hand, is a big issue. Without that class,
I would have been lost.
I didn't have any assistance with the 'glass. I only had the experience of Dave's
class and the school of hard knocks. All I'm saying is that this "easy to do"
advice comes a little too easy.
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386996#386996
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Opinion please |
Thanks Geoff!
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: g.combs
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 11:04 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Opinion please
Dura tech 707-002
Geoff
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