Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 11:59 AM - Electric aileron trim (Billy Britton)
2. 12:07 PM - Re: Electric aileron trim (Pascal)
3. 12:28 PM - Re: Electric aileron trim (Robin Marks)
4. 12:29 PM - Re: Electric aileron trim (Bob Turner)
5. 12:32 PM - Re: Electric aileron trim (Bob Turner)
6. 12:40 PM - Re: Re: Electric aileron trim (Robin Marks)
7. 12:50 PM - Re: Re: Electric aileron trim (Carl Froehlich)
8. 12:52 PM - Re: Electric aileron trim (Tim Olson)
9. 12:54 PM - Re: Re: Electric aileron trim (Tim Olson)
10. 01:57 PM - Re: Electric aileron trim (Bob Turner)
11. 03:53 PM - Re: Re: Electric aileron trim (bob-tcw)
12. 04:58 PM - Re: Re: Electric aileron trim (Bill Watson)
13. 05:12 PM - Re: Problem with Fuel flow transducer in the tunnel (Bob Turner)
14. 05:31 PM - Re: Re: Problem with Fuel flow transducer in the tunnel (bob-tcw)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Electric aileron trim |
Im just getting ready to install the electric aileron trim in my wings
before I rivet the bottom wing skins. Is this something that needs to
be done now or do I need to wait until I have the ailerons rigged?
Also, I read on Tim Olsons website about the "safety" trim. Is this
something completely different than the standard vans electric aileron
trim kit or is it simply changing out the ray allen servo for a
different one. Anyone have info where to research the "safety trim"
system?
Thanks,
Bill
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Electric aileron trim |
I thought the safety trim just avoided runaway Ray allen servo issues.
Not a replacement but =9Cin addition=9D to. If you have a
Vertical Power system, it has it built in BTW.
From: Billy Britton
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:58 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Electric aileron trim
Im just getting ready to install the electric aileron trim in my wings
before I rivet the bottom wing skins. Is this something that needs to
be done now or do I need to wait until I have the ailerons rigged?
Also, I read on Tim Olsons website about the "safety" trim. Is this
something completely different than the standard vans electric aileron
trim kit or is it simply changing out the ray allen servo for a
different one. Anyone have info where to research the "safety trim"
system?
Thanks,
Bill
Message 3
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| Subject: | Electric aileron trim |
Correct the Safety Trim module is and additional item added to your trim co
ntrol system. Here is the link to the unit:
http://www.tcwtech.com/Safety-Trim-Page.htm
If you have ever tried to fly an RV substantially out of trim it will scare
you enough to install some system to reverse the out of trim situation so
you can make it safely down. I have installed on in my 6A, 10 & 8A.
Robin
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [owner-rv10-list-server@matronic
s.com] on behalf of Pascal [rv10flyer@live.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Electric aileron trim
I thought the safety trim just avoided runaway Ray allen servo issues. Not
a replacement but =93in addition=94 to. If you have a Vertical Power system
, it has it built in BTW.
From: Billy Britton<mailto:william@gbta.net>
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:58 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Electric aileron trim
Im just getting ready to install the electric aileron trim in my wings befo
re I rivet the bottom wing skins. Is this something that needs to be done
now or do I need to wait until I have the ailerons rigged? Also, I read on
Tim Olsons website about the "safety" trim. Is this something completely
different than the standard vans electric aileron trim kit or is it simply
changing out the ray allen servo for a different one. Anyone have info whe
re to research the "safety trim" system?
Thanks,
Bill
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href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
rsbooks.com>
m>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Electric aileron trim |
"Safety Trim" is a commercial product. As stated above, it is an electronic control
box which will not allow the trim to run for more than 3 seconds at one button
push, to guard against a runaway trim situation. This could be due to a
stuck top hat switch, or some have reported a passenger leaning on the right stick
trim switch. (For this reason I opted not to install a pitch trim switch
on the right yoke.)
This is more critical for pitch trim, which is much stronger than the spring loaded
aileron trim. I don't know anyone who has the Safety Trim box powering their
aileron trim.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387990#387990
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| Subject: | Re: Electric aileron trim |
I cannot answer your original question about whether it is better to hook up the
aileron trim now or later, as I don't have it. I think you can go either way,
I just don't know what's easiest.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387992#387992
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| Subject: | Re: Electric aileron trim |
Bob, I chose to provide full functionality to the co-pilots stick but I also have
a Activate Co-Pilots Grip switch on my panel. The co-pilots stick functions
(Trim/PTT/Flip-flop/AP-Off/Flaps) are all inactive unless the panel switch arms
the co-pilot controls.
I did the same for the 8A which was a mistake. Just too complicated for the few
times they may be desired.
Robin
________________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]
on behalf of Bob Turner [bobturner@alum.rpi.edu]
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 12:29 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Electric aileron trim
"Safety Trim" is a commercial product. As stated above, it is an electronic control
box which will not allow the trim to run for more than 3 seconds at one button
push, to guard against a runaway trim situation. This could be due to a
stuck top hat switch, or some have reported a passenger leaning on the right stick
trim switch. (For this reason I opted not to install a pitch trim switch
on the right yoke.)
This is more critical for pitch trim, which is much stronger than the spring loaded
aileron trim. I don't know anyone who has the Safety Trim box powering their
aileron trim.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387990#387990
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Electric aileron trim |
Safety Trim is used as a replacement for relays and such. I have the trim top
hat on the control stick going to the Safety Trim box, then from the box to the
aileron and elevator trim servos.
On the "co-pilot messing with the trim top hat on his/her stick" problem, I added
a Trim/Flap control switch on the panel. It has a Pilot and Co-Pilot position.
This way the co-pilot cannot inadvertently operate the trim or flap switches
on co-pilot stick unless selected. It has a side benefit of isolating the
pilot stick switches if one fails and allowing trim/flap operation from the
other stick as a backup.
Carl
On Nov 15, 2012, at 3:29 PM, "Bob Turner" <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu> wrote:
>
> "Safety Trim" is a commercial product. As stated above, it is an electronic control
box which will not allow the trim to run for more than 3 seconds at one
button push, to guard against a runaway trim situation. This could be due to
a stuck top hat switch, or some have reported a passenger leaning on the right
stick trim switch. (For this reason I opted not to install a pitch trim switch
on the right yoke.)
> This is more critical for pitch trim, which is much stronger than the spring
loaded aileron trim. I don't know anyone who has the Safety Trim box powering
their aileron trim.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387990#387990
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Electric aileron trim |
You would probably be better off to install the trim now while
it's easy to access...even in a wing cradle. You could do it
later, but as long as you do it per-plans on the timing, you
won't go wrong. The important part is to get the measurements
down so that the spring preload isn't high in either direction,
but with the measurements they give, you should be able to do
that easily.
The Safety Trim just replaces the Ray Allen relays.
It makes it a ton easier to wire up your hat switches!
Tim
On 11/15/2012 1:58 PM, Billy Britton wrote:
> Im just getting ready to install the electric aileron trim in my wings
> before I rivet the bottom wing skins. Is this something that needs to
> be done now or do I need to wait until I have the ailerons rigged?
> Also, I read on Tim Olsons website about the "safety" trim. Is this
> something completely different than the standard vans electric aileron
> trim kit or is it simply changing out the ray allen servo for a
> different one. Anyone have info where to research the "safety trim" system?
> Thanks,
> Bill
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Electric aileron trim |
I did the same. The one single switch basically disables the
ground on the co-pilot side, so one panel switch can remove
all control from the co-pilot.
Tim
On 11/15/2012 2:40 PM, Robin Marks wrote:
>
> Bob, I chose to provide full functionality to the co-pilots stick but
> I also have a Activate Co-Pilots Grip switch on my panel. The
> co-pilots stick functions (Trim/PTT/Flip-flop/AP-Off/Flaps) are all
> inactive unless the panel switch arms the co-pilot controls. I did
> the same for the 8A which was a mistake. Just too complicated for the
> few times they may be desired.
>
> Robin ________________________________________ From:
> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] on behalf of Bob Turner
> [bobturner@alum.rpi.edu] Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 12:29 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Re: Electric aileron
> trim
>
> <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu>
>
> "Safety Trim" is a commercial product. As stated above, it is an
> electronic control box which will not allow the trim to run for more
> than 3 seconds at one button push, to guard against a runaway trim
> situation. This could be due to a stuck top hat switch, or some have
> reported a passenger leaning on the right stick trim switch. (For
> this reason I opted not to install a pitch trim switch on the right
> yoke.) This is more critical for pitch trim, which is much stronger
> than the spring loaded aileron trim. I don't know anyone who has the
> Safety Trim box powering their aileron trim.
>
> -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Electric aileron trim |
Slight thread drift.....I really like the Trio pro autopilot with auto trim for
making fine adjustments to trim manually, when hand flying. Trim speed is programable,
slower trim speed with higher airspeed. Between the autopilot trim function,
high on center stack, and the Ray Allan rocker, on the panel to the right
of the radios, I'm comfortable flying right seat without a right stick top
hat?
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388000#388000
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Electric aileron trim |
Some details and comments on Safety-trim: Safety-Trim provides two speed
control of the trim surfaces, with 3 second runaway prevention. It
eliminates the need for any relay decks. As such, it makes wiring of the
trim systems very easy, we've seen most customers choose our two axis
controller (pitch and roll trim), thereby greatly simplifying the wiring,
instead of using relays for the roll axis and a single axis Safety-Trim for
pitch. Lastly the VP trim system is not exactly the same as Safety-Trim.
If you drive the system for more than 3 seconds with Safety-trim it stops
the servos from run-away, if you need to drive more than 3 seconds worth of
trim, just let up on the switch and press again for more trim. We patented
this feature. The VP system must utilize a menu or another method of
resetting the time limit to get more than 3 second limit. (We believe this
may be quite important on a go-around depending on your aircraft's
particular trim requirements)
All the details and our instruction sheet can be found on www.tcwtech.com
Lastly, regarding installation of the aileron trim servo after the build.
We did it without issue. The only pain is that you must remove the bolts
thru the rod ends on the aileron push tube so you can drill the tube in the
proper location for the spring attach brackets. Its also way more fun
working on your back, laying on the cold hangar floor, reaching up thru the
access hole. Seriously though, it certainly is not a difficult
retrofit, I'd much rather do this than move the fuel flow transducer out
of the tunnel!
Thanks,
Bob Newman
RV-10
N541RV
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Electric aileron trim |
I'm a very happy safety trim user - 200 hours. The 3 second thing is a
good thing all around. And it did make the wiring easier than using the
relays.
Going back to the original post - installing the trim in the wing is
really easy while you have in the cradle. You just rivet two little
bits of aluminum to the pushrod and run the wires to where the trim
servo is mounted. You don't even have to do the trim servo mounting at
this point - it's installed on the access panel and can easily be
completed whenever. Determining exactly where the two bits are mounted
is the only trick, but as I recall (I said "recall"), all you have to do
is get it close, and that's easy.
In other words, there's very little to do before putting the skins on
but it does pay to do it before.
And safety trim (and I assume the VP system) are all installed up by
the panel so there's nothing to do there relative to the wing.
So if you can roughly locate those two bits of aluminum that attached
the pushrod to the trim springs, and rivet them, that's all you really
need to do before skinning. Getting any and all wiring in is good too
but a conduit can handle the wiring too.
Bill Watson
On 11/15/2012 6:52 PM, bob-tcw wrote:
>
> Some details and comments on Safety-trim: Safety-Trim provides two
> speed control of the trim surfaces, with 3 second runaway prevention.
> It eliminates the need for any relay decks. As such, it makes
> wiring of the trim systems very easy, we've seen most customers
> choose our two axis controller (pitch and roll trim), thereby
> greatly simplifying the wiring, instead of using relays for the roll
> axis and a single axis Safety-Trim for pitch. Lastly the VP trim
> system is not exactly the same as Safety-Trim. If you drive the system
> for more than 3 seconds with Safety-trim it stops the servos from
> run-away, if you need to drive more than 3 seconds worth of trim,
> just let up on the switch and press again for more trim. We patented
> this feature. The VP system must utilize a menu or another method of
> resetting the time limit to get more than 3 second limit. (We
> believe this may be quite important on a go-around depending on your
> aircraft's particular trim requirements)
>
> All the details and our instruction sheet can be found on www.tcwtech.com
>
> Lastly, regarding installation of the aileron trim servo after the
> build. We did it without issue. The only pain is that you must
> remove the bolts thru the rod ends on the aileron push tube so you can
> drill the tube in the proper location for the spring attach
> brackets. Its also way more fun working on your back, laying on the
> cold hangar floor, reaching up thru the access hole. Seriously
> though, it certainly is not a difficult retrofit, I'd much rather
> do this than move the fuel flow transducer out of the tunnel!
>
>
> Thanks,
> Bob Newman
> RV-10
> N541RV
>
do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Problem with Fuel flow transducer in the tunnel |
Bob,
I haven't thought this thru entirely, but I notice you have one other thing which
is non-stock: filters at the wing root. Is it possible they are introducing
an extra pressure drop (more than the standard filter in the tunnel) and this
makes the problem at the cube in the tunnel worse?
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388009#388009
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Problem with Fuel flow transducer in the tunnel |
Bob, Good question. In my set-up I only have a filter in each wing root,
no filter in the tunnel. The filter in the wing root has the same mesh
size and pressure drop vs. flow values as the standard filter used with the
AFP filter/pump assembly. So I think that's not an issue.
Bob Newman
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Turner
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 8:12 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Problem with Fuel flow transducer in the tunnel
Bob,
I haven't thought this thru entirely, but I notice you have one other thing
which is non-stock: filters at the wing root. Is it possible they are
introducing an extra pressure drop (more than the standard filter in the
tunnel) and this makes the problem at the cube in the tunnel worse?
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388009#388009
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