Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:30 AM - Re: PCU5000-X (rv10flyer)
2. 06:52 AM - Landing Gear Vibration (Carroll L. Verhage)
3. 07:04 AM - Re: Landing Gear Vibration (Kevin Belue)
4. 07:34 AM - Re: PCU5000-X (Carl Froehlich)
5. 07:54 AM - Re: PCU5000-X (Pascal)
6. 11:13 AM - Re: Landing Gear Vibration ()
7. 12:17 PM - Re: Grass runway operation (Mike Whisky)
8. 12:23 PM - Re: Landing Gear Vibration (Seano)
9. 04:56 PM - Re: PCU5000-X (Jeff Carpenter)
10. 05:24 PM - Re: PCU5000-X (Bob Turner)
11. 05:26 PM - Re: Landing Gear Vibration (Steve T)
12. 06:08 PM - MT Prop(s) (Jesse Saint)
13. 06:35 PM - Re: MT Prop(s) (Michael Kraus)
14. 08:11 PM - Re: MT Prop(s) (Robert Brunkenhoefer)
15. 11:22 PM - Re: MT Prop(s) (Robin Marks)
Message 1
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I noticed that nut in the pic and had to go back and reread.
I have the Hartzell 2 blade BA with the MT gov from Van's and all is well after
95.2 hours.
--------
Wayne G.
12/01/2011
TT= 95
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390286#390286
Message 2
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| Subject: | Landing Gear Vibration |
Landing gear vibration is caused by the main gear not tracking parallel
to the axis of the aircraft. Mine tracked 4 and 1/2 inches toed in on
the R and 1 and 1/2 inches on the L for 13 feet of travel. The tires
had to slip side ways 50 feet for every 1300 teet of run way travel!!
the R tire was noticably more worn than the L. You can check this by
sighting along the brake disc and marking a point in front of the plane
in line with the disc. Chalk lines on the floor parallel to the axis of
the plane. Correct the alignment by oblonging the holes in the gear
mounting bracket, turning the gear leg in or out and making shims out of
a 3/8 inch washer to make the holes round again and replacing the gear
bolts. No more vibration!
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Vibration |
Which holes are you making oblong?
Kevin Belue
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 11, 2012, at 8:51 AM, "Carroll L. Verhage" <cv93436@windstream.net> w
rote:
> Landing gear vibration is caused by the main gear not tracking parallel to
the axis of the aircraft. Mine tracked 4 and 1/2 inches toed in on the R an
d 1 and 1/2 inches on the L for 13 feet of travel. The tires had to slip si
de ways 50 feet for every 1300 teet of run way travel!! the R tire was noti
cably more worn than the L. You can check this by sighting along the brake d
isc and marking a point in front of the plane in line with the disc. Chalk l
ines on the floor parallel to the axis of the plane. Correct the alignment b
y oblonging the holes in the gear mounting bracket, turning the gear leg in o
r out and making shims out of a 3/8 inch washer to make the holes round agai
n and replacing the gear bolts. No more vibration!
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 4
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I bought the PCU5000-X for the RV-8A several years ago. At the time many RV builders
were reporting surge/hunting problems with the then Van's recommend MT
governor, and very positive reports were being circulated on the PCU unit. There
was a group buy on VAF for the PCU5000-X so I went that route. Final cost
to me was a few dollars below Van's listed price for the MT unit.
My very positive experience with the PCU unit on the RV-8A drove the decision to
use it on the RV-10. Luck was with me as there was another group buy going
on VAF so again I got it for a few dollars below the Van's list price for the
Hartzell and MT units.
I read that MT has taken action to address the earlier performance issues, but
I cannot go beyond my very limited study. For that matter all my information
on the MT unit is second hand so consider it in that light.
Perhaps you can organize another PCU5000-X group buy. Everyone RV builder planning
on a CS prop should have an interest.
Carl
On Dec 10, 2012, at 9:58 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
>
> For those that chose the PCU5000, do you feel it is worth the extra several hundred
over an MT or Hartzell governor? I'm finding so far that I can get the
MT prop with MT governor as a package at significantly better price than if I
have by PCU5000 separate from the prop.
> What features do you consider significantly better with the PCU5000?
> Kelly
> On 12/10/2012 7:51 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>>
>> I found a photo taken during baffle fabrication (I made mine as Im using a plenum).
Dont know how much different, if any this will be if you use the Vans
baffle kit. Please look beyond the temporary hardware in the photo.
>>
>> The listed Vans mixture and governor cables were the correct length (I am not
using a quadrant), but the Vans recommended throttle cable was too short. I
got the 50.5 throttle cable that Vans list for the RV-7 and it worked fine.
>>
>> Carl
>>
>> RV-10 (60 hours)
>>
>> RV-8A (700 hours)
>>
>> *From:*owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Jeff Carpenter
>> *Sent:* Monday, December 10, 2012 9:17 PM
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* RV10-List: PCU5000-X
>>
>> For those of you with the PCU5000-X and the YIO-540-D4A5, who routed cables
per the vans FF instructions, what counter lever rotation and what clocking angle
did you specify (if you got it right)?
>>
>> Jeff Carpenter
>>
>> 40304
>>
>> * *
>> * *
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> *www.aeroelectric.com*
>> *www.buildersbooks.com*
>> *www.homebuilthelp.com*
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>> **
>> **
>> * *
>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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Same feedback as Carl. During the time my TC advised going the PCU route
versus the MT route. Been working very nicely for me. I do recall I paid
about $180 more for my governor however.
-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Froehlich
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 7:33 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: PCU5000-X
I bought the PCU5000-X for the RV-8A several years ago. At the time many RV
builders were reporting surge/hunting problems with the then Van's recommend
MT governor, and very positive reports were being circulated on the PCU
unit. There was a group buy on VAF for the PCU5000-X so I went that route.
Final cost to me was a few dollars below Van's listed price for the MT unit.
My very positive experience with the PCU unit on the RV-8A drove the
decision to use it on the RV-10. Luck was with me as there was another
group buy going on VAF so again I got it for a few dollars below the Van's
list price for the Hartzell and MT units.
I read that MT has taken action to address the earlier performance issues,
but I cannot go beyond my very limited study. For that matter all my
information on the MT unit is second hand so consider it in that light.
Perhaps you can organize another PCU5000-X group buy. Everyone RV builder
planning on a CS prop should have an interest.
Carl
On Dec 10, 2012, at 9:58 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
>
> For those that chose the PCU5000, do you feel it is worth the extra
> several hundred over an MT or Hartzell governor? I'm finding so far that I
> can get the MT prop with MT governor as a package at significantly better
> price than if I have by PCU5000 separate from the prop.
> What features do you consider significantly better with the PCU5000?
> Kelly
> On 12/10/2012 7:51 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>>
>> I found a photo taken during baffle fabrication (I made mine as Im using
>> a plenum). Dont know how much different, if any this will be if you use
>> the Vans baffle kit. Please look beyond the temporary hardware in the
>> photo.
>>
>> The listed Vans mixture and governor cables were the correct length (I
>> am not using a quadrant), but the Vans recommended throttle cable was
>> too short. I got the 50.5 throttle cable that Vans list for the RV-7
>> and it worked fine.
>>
>> Carl
>>
>> RV-10 (60 hours)
>>
>> RV-8A (700 hours)
>>
>> *From:*owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Jeff
>> Carpenter
>> *Sent:* Monday, December 10, 2012 9:17 PM
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* RV10-List: PCU5000-X
>>
>> For those of you with the PCU5000-X and the YIO-540-D4A5, who routed
>> cables per the vans FF instructions, what counter lever rotation and what
>> clocking angle did you specify (if you got it right)?
>>
>> Jeff Carpenter
>>
>> 40304
>>
>> * *
>> * *
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> *www.aeroelectric.com*
>> *www.buildersbooks.com*
>> *www.homebuilthelp.com*
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>> **
>> **
>> * *
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Vibration |
Hey Carroll,
Nice clean solution to a messy problem discussed here frequently.
I=99d probably use a laser to shoot the lines along the brake
rotor. I assume you are talking about the hard to get to mounting holes
in the upper leg under the seats? That=99s pretty hard steel
=93 how did you oblong it? And how did you make a shim out of a
3/8 washer to make it round again? A visual would help if you had a
pic. Glad to hear that you solved your problem.
Later, =93 Lew =9Crelieved not to have had this problem ...
yet=9D Gallagher
do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Grass runway operation |
Great, thank you all.
Now getting to the art of sanding for the paintshop ;.)
Mike
--------
RV-10 builder (interior & finishing)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390297#390297
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Vibration |
I actually aligned mine too during the build. I believe my right side was ou
t and left side was in. I ended up calling Vans to see if I could drill the h
ole oversize and use a bigger bolt. Vans said that would be fine so I spot w
elded the top of the gear in the correct position then drilled the bigger ho
le and ground off the spot weld and inserted the new bolt.
They both measured the same toe in.
After flying I noticed the shimmy. Having the gear tracking the same didn't d
o the trick on mine. I ended up needing gear leg stiffeners which ended up f
ixing the problem. My tires wear the same.
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 11, 2012, at 14:12, <lewgall@charter.net> wrote:
> Hey Carroll,
>
> Nice clean solution to a messy problem discussed here frequently. I
=99d probably use a laser to shoot the lines along the brake rotor. I assum
e you are talking about the hard to get to mounting holes in the upper leg u
nder the seats? That=99s pretty hard steel =93 how did you oblo
ng it? And how did you make a shim out of a 3/8 washer to make it round aga
in? A visual would help if you had a pic. Glad to hear that you solved you
r problem.
>
> Later, =93 Lew =9Crelieved not to have had this problem ... ye
t=9D Gallagher
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 9
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I've spent some time the last couple of days trying to fill out the
Specification Sheet to order the PCU5000-X (thus the questions that
started this thread), only to find out that it's no longer necessary.
They now have a chart at this link PCU5000 Propeller Control Unit
Governor by Aero Technologies, Inc. that will get you most of the way to
what you want to order. They also have a nice tech named Danny @
530-221-0923 who's happy to help with any questions you might have.
If you have purchased the YIO-540-D4A5 from Vans along with the Hartzell
Blended Airfoil HC-C2YR-18FP/F80680/SM8, then you need to buy the
P-520-029/A-947 version of the PCU5000-X. The specific clocking is
something you will set at installation by removing the safety wire,
loosening (but not removing) the six screws, adjusting and resetting the
screws to 20 inch/lbs torque and replacing the safety wire. When you've
got it all right, Danny suggest marking the ring and the body with a
punch so it can be repositioned accurately after an overhaul.
Along the way during this adventure, I sent an e-mail to Lycoming. The
response is copied below, just because it helped me understand things a
bit better and others might find it useful.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
Firewall Forward!
"Hi Jeff,
Geoff has asked me to help with your inquiries. Here are a couple points
that should help:
The YIO-540-D4A5 is mechanically identical to the certified IO-540-D4A5,
so all parts manual and all related service information is the same.
For the governor drive on a 6 cylinder Lycoming, the only two option are
for the older narrow deck versions, which were made in the =9150s and
=9260 and the current Wide Deck ( aka Wide Cylinder Flange). All new new
Lycoming 6 cylinders models are =93Wide Deck=94.
The governor drive turns clockwise as seen when facing the drive pad (
normal view from the outside of the engine). The drive ratio is .947-1
for all 6 cylinder Wide Deck models.
No =91clocking angle=92 is needed for the governor drive itself, this
would relate to the position of the control arm. The control arm
orientation is , of course, driven by the specifics of the aircraft prop
control system. You don=92t mention, but if you are selecting from the
governor and prop options offered by Van=92s Aircraft, these details are
already addressed in the Van=92s installations kits.
As far as prop itself, other than being matched to the engine as far as
performance and vibration characteristics (as the Van=92s supplied
choices are) the major difference is Standard or Aerobatic.
A Standard prop in a single engine aircraft will go to low pitch ( high
RPM or take off position) is oil pressure to the prop is lost. This
could be due to a governor issue or major oil leak.
An Aerobatic prop would be counterweighted to allow the prop to go to
high pitch (low RPM) if oil pressure is lost, especially during acro
maneuvers. This is to help prevent an engine/prop overspeed during acro.
The governor needs to be specific to either Standard or Aerobatic(
counterweighted) prop types.
I hope this helps,
Brian Costello
Lycoming Engines
Field Service Engineer
Seattle WA, USA
360-403-9867"
On Dec 10, 2012, at 6:16 PM, Jeff Carpenter wrote:
> For those of you with the PCU5000-X and the YIO-540-D4A5, who routed
cables per the vans FF instructions, what counter lever rotation and
what clocking angle did you specify (if you got it right)?
>
> Jeff Carpenter
> 40304
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
>
Message 10
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Data point: I have the Hartzel governor, Hartzel prop, XIO-540D4A5. No issues.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390306#390306
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Vibration |
We don't have the main gear vibration on ours either thankfully. But the ge
ar leg stiffeners seem to help a lot if you can't get tire pressures, etc to
change them.
We sell them at www.aircraftspecialty.com/rvall1.html
If you buy them and they don't work to your satisfaction, we will happily re
fund your purchase price. You don't even have to return them. (it would be d
ifficult because they will be fiberglassed on)
Have a great day
Steve
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 11, 2012, at 14:23, Seano <sean@braunandco.com> wrote:
> I actually aligned mine too during the build. I believe my right side was o
ut and left side was in. I ended up calling Vans to see if I could drill the
hole oversize and use a bigger bolt. Vans said that would be fine so I spot
welded the top of the gear in the correct position then drilled the bigger h
ole and ground off the spot weld and inserted the new bolt.
> They both measured the same toe in.
> After flying I noticed the shimmy. Having the gear tracking the same didn'
t do the trick on mine. I ended up needing gear leg stiffeners which ended u
p fixing the problem. My tires wear the same.
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 11, 2012, at 14:12, <lewgall@charter.net> wrote:
>
>> Hey Carroll,
>>
>> Nice clean solution to a messy problem discussed here frequently. I
=99d probably use a laser to shoot the lines along the brake rotor. I assum
e you are talking about the hard to get to mounting holes in the upper leg u
nder the seats? That=99s pretty hard steel =93 how did you oblo
ng it? And how did you make a shim out of a 3/8 washer to make it round aga
in? A visual would help if you had a pic. Glad to hear that you solved you
r problem.
>>
>> Later, =93 Lew =9Crelieved not to have had this problem ... y
et=9D Gallagher
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>> =========================
=========
>> ctric.com
>> >www.buildersbooks.com
>> uilthelp.com
>> matronics.com/contribution
>> =========================
=========
>> ://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> =========================
=========
>> cs.com
>> =========================
=========
>>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 12
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I saw an RV-10 the other day with an MT prop that looked different than other MT's
that I have seen on the -10, but still a 3-blade. I don't know the difference.
The owner claimed that this model of prop is as fast as the Hartzell Blended
Airfoil prop, which I doubt, but wanted to know what other MT prop owners
have experienced in cruise performance versus the Hartzell 2-blade. Has anybody
ever done the test to remove one prop and install the other to do a side-by-side
comparison on the same airframe? Either way, I would like to hear what others
"think" they are gaining or losing with different propellers. I flew with
Rob Hickman at what was AFS, who has the 3-blade Hartzell with the really fat
blades, and he said he thought he was losing about 7 knots in cruise, if I remember
correctly.
Any others want to share their thoughts?
Jesse Saint
352-427-0285
jesse@saintaviation.com
Sent from my iPad
Message 13
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I think it depends on what primer was used on the prop..... :-)
Oh boy, this should be a fun thread...
Do not archive
-Mike Kraus
RV-4 sold :-(
RV-10 flying :-)
KitFox SS7 Radial building :-)
On Dec 11, 2012, at 9:07 PM, Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com> wrote:
>
> I saw an RV-10 the other day with an MT prop that looked different than other
MT's that I have seen on the -10, but still a 3-blade. I don't know the difference.
The owner claimed that this model of prop is as fast as the Hartzell Blended
Airfoil prop, which I doubt, but wanted to know what other MT prop owners
have experienced in cruise performance versus the Hartzell 2-blade. Has anybody
ever done the test to remove one prop and install the other to do a side-by-side
comparison on the same airframe? Either way, I would like to hear what
others "think" they are gaining or losing with different propellers. I flew with
Rob Hickman at what was AFS, who has the 3-blade Hartzell with the really fat
blades, and he said he thought he was losing about 7 knots in cruise, if I
remember correctly.
>
> Any others want to share their thoughts?
>
> Jesse Saint
> 352-427-0285
> jesse@saintaviation.com
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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I switched out my MT for the 2bladed vans sells when my MT got damaged by fod
during taxiing. Rate of climb is noticeably less(300-500fpm) I estimate. Also
I am now 5 kts faster than before. The MT has a noticeably greater rate of deceleration
on throttle back. Actually had to get adapted to it on first few landings
and approaches. I sent the MT to Factory in Florida and had a complete overhaul
done. It is back in CRP and it is for sale. It is still in its shipping
crate. I can be reached at 361-533-2383 if you are looking for a like new MT
at a less than new price. Regards, Robert N661G KCRP 500hours and loving it.
Sent from my iPad
On Dec 11, 2012, at 8:07 PM, Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com> wrote:
>
> I saw an RV-10 the other day with an MT prop that looked different than other
MT's that I have seen on the -10, but still a 3-blade. I don't know the difference.
The owner claimed that this model of prop is as fast as the Hartzell Blended
Airfoil prop, which I doubt, but wanted to know what other MT prop owners
have experienced in cruise performance versus the Hartzell 2-blade. Has anybody
ever done the test to remove one prop and install the other to do a side-by-side
comparison on the same airframe? Either way, I would like to hear what
others "think" they are gaining or losing with different propellers. I flew with
Rob Hickman at what was AFS, who has the 3-blade Hartzell with the really fat
blades, and he said he thought he was losing about 7 knots in cruise, if I
remember correctly.
>
> Any others want to share their thoughts?
>
> Jesse Saint
> 352-427-
> jesse@saintaviation.com
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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To my knowledge you are the only person that has swapped out different props on
the same -10. Just the data point we needed. Wish we had exact numbers but going
with BA (~350) FPM and + 5 Knots seems reasonable.
I am not sure I would give up the cruise speed for the climb rate personally. Plus
I like the cost savings and the easy of lower cowl removal.
Thanks Robert.
Robin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Brunkenhoefer
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 8:10 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: MT Prop(s)
--> <robertbrunk@mac.com>
I switched out my MT for the 2bladed vans sells when my MT got damaged by fod
during taxiing. Rate of climb is noticeably less(300-500fpm) I estimate. Also
I am now 5 kts faster than before. The MT has a noticeably greater rate of deceleration
on throttle back. Actually had to get adapted to it on first few landings
and approaches. I sent the MT to Factory in Florida and had a complete overhaul
done. It is back in CRP and it is for sale. It is still in its shipping
crate. I can be reached at 361-533-2383 if you are looking for a like new MT
at a less than new price. Regards, Robert N661G KCRP 500hours and loving it.
Sent from my iPad
On Dec 11, 2012, at 8:07 PM, Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com> wrote:
>
> I saw an RV-10 the other day with an MT prop that looked different than other
MT's that I have seen on the -10, but still a 3-blade. I don't know the difference.
The owner claimed that this model of prop is as fast as the Hartzell Blended
Airfoil prop, which I doubt, but wanted to know what other MT prop owners
have experienced in cruise performance versus the Hartzell 2-blade. Has anybody
ever done the test to remove one prop and install the other to do a side-by-side
comparison on the same airframe? Either way, I would like to hear what
others "think" they are gaining or losing with different propellers. I flew with
Rob Hickman at what was AFS, who has the 3-blade Hartzell with the really fat
blades, and he said he thought he was losing about 7 knots in cruise, if I
remember correctly.
>
> Any others want to share their thoughts?
>
> Jesse Saint
> 352-427-
> jesse@saintaviation.com
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
>
>
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