Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:14 AM - Re: Another RV-10 down? (Wayne Edgerton)
2. 06:31 AM - Re: Oh no, another new guy... (Spudnut)
3. 06:49 AM - Re: Re: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps (Bill Watson)
4. 07:25 AM - Re: Oh no, another new guy... (Ron Zeppin)
5. 07:26 AM - Re: Re: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps (n801bh@netzero.com)
6. 09:48 AM - Re: Re: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps (Bill Watson)
7. 10:28 AM - Re: Re: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps (Linn)
8. 04:04 PM - Re: Re: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps (n801bh@netzero.com)
9. 04:21 PM - Re: Re: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps (Kelly McMullen)
10. 07:21 PM - Cowl Replacement Update (Robin Marks)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Another RV-10 down? |
I spoke with Sue at Aerosport several weeks back about another issue but she told
me with the price they were being charged for the IO540 parts from Lycoming
they could no longer be competitive with Vans so they've stopped offering it.
If you go to their web site aerosportpower.com and select engines you'll see
they no longer offer the IO 540.
Wayne Edgerton N602WT
Sent from my Iphone Wayne
Message 2
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| Subject: | Oh no, another new guy... |
If you make it to Yuma call me (928-210-9123 cell) and I'll show you a RV-8
and a Murphy Rebel under construction. Also I have a RV-10 and there is an
RV-9A and an RV-12 here. (The Rebel kit makes you really appreciate Vans.)
Albert Gardner
RV-10 N991RV
Yuma, AZ
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Zeppin
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 12:46 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Oh no, another new guy...
Greetings all! I am embarking on this madcap ride known as aviation and the
RV-10 is at the top of my short list.
I'm fast approaching middle age, have wanted to fly since I was a child like
just about every one else who gets the PPL.
My wife is finishing up her Master's degree, and when she's done, I'll be
jumping into getting my PPL.
I live in San Tan Valley, AZ... a southeast suburb of Phoenix. After
checking the Van's site, I was hoping to find a Van's club in Arizona, but
they don't list one. Any builders/owners on here that live in Arizona?
I would VERY much like to hook up with you to take a look at the aircraft in
any stage of completion.
I drive all over the southern part of the state, so pretty much anywhere
from Phoenix south to the border would be withing my driving range. I also
get up to Pinetop/Showlow on a semi-regular basis.
I'm a very hands on person, started working on cars at 15, was into drag
racing for several years, and have been a field service tech for over 20
years now. Building my own plane seems like the ultimate adventure!
I'd love to hear from anyone in the area (or anyone in general!) about the
RV-10, and GA in general.
Cheers!
Ron
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps |
I just started doing that (running less oil) with some apparent
success. I haven't logged the numbers yet but my low temp warnings
stopped during the last winter time flight.
Actually, I've done 2 things trying to bring the oil temps up into the
165 to 200F range during cruise. I have the problem in both summer and
winter.
I don't have the cooling air valve. So first, I fabricated a simple
plate to block some cooling air going to the oil cooler. The plate is
installed where the hose exits the plenum. It's slotted so I can adjust
it on the ground. Blocking about 1/3rd of the flow, most but not all
low temp alarms (i.e. <165F) were suppressed.
Then, during my last oil change, instead of putting in 9 Qts (to get
8Qts on the dip stick), I put in 7 Qts. During my last flight, I didn't
get any low temp alarms. I'm considering going to 6 next time.
My testing has not been all that rigorous. I'm just trying to get to
the point where I don't get any low temp or high temp alarms during
cruise. I figure that I will accept temps that fall slightly outside
the 165-200 range during hot day climbs and low power descents. As I
understand it, the objective on the low side is to burn off moisture,
and on the high side to indicate proper engine cooling and avoid oil
breakdown - but I'm not sure at what temps the oil starts to breakdown.
Anyway, I think I'm where I want to be for the winter and I'll adjust as
required when moving to the warmer months.
Bill
On 1/15/2013 1:53 AM, woxofswa wrote:
>
> This thread reminded me of something. Years ago (decades actually), I knew a
mechanic who swore by running two quarts lower oil quantity as a baseline in
winter than summer. I never thought it completely through because I was just
a renter in those days, but it might make a difference.
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa, AZ
> Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. Finishing kit
and FWF kit in progress.
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Oh no, another new guy... |
HI Albert. I do get to Yuma on occasion, thought I might be heading
there this morning, but my co-worked is going to
take those service calls and some PM's he has and do them
tomorrow/Thursday. I'll definitely give you a shout next time I go.
Yuma is very random for me. Tucson is a weekly thing! ;)
Thanks VERY much for the offer! I will take you up on it when I get out
there next!
Ron
On 1/15/2013 7:30 AM, Spudnut wrote:
>
> If you make it to Yuma call me (928-210-9123 cell) and I'll show you a RV-8
> and a Murphy Rebel under construction. Also I have a RV-10 and there is an
> RV-9A and an RV-12 here. (The Rebel kit makes you really appreciate Vans.)
> Albert Gardner
> RV-10 N991RV
> Yuma, AZ
> Do not archive
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Zeppin
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 12:46 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Oh no, another new guy...
>
>
> Greetings all! I am embarking on this madcap ride known as aviation and the
> RV-10 is at the top of my short list.
> I'm fast approaching middle age, have wanted to fly since I was a child like
> just about every one else who gets the PPL.
> My wife is finishing up her Master's degree, and when she's done, I'll be
> jumping into getting my PPL.
> I live in San Tan Valley, AZ... a southeast suburb of Phoenix. After
> checking the Van's site, I was hoping to find a Van's club in Arizona, but
> they don't list one. Any builders/owners on here that live in Arizona?
> I would VERY much like to hook up with you to take a look at the aircraft in
> any stage of completion.
> I drive all over the southern part of the state, so pretty much anywhere
> from Phoenix south to the border would be withing my driving range. I also
> get up to Pinetop/Showlow on a semi-regular basis.
> I'm a very hands on person, started working on cars at 15, was into drag
> racing for several years, and have been a field service tech for over 20
> years now. Building my own plane seems like the ultimate adventure!
>
> I'd love to hear from anyone in the area (or anyone in general!) about the
> RV-10, and GA in general.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Ron
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps |
IIRC.... The Lycoming engines have their oil temperature sending units p
laced after the oil cooler, not in the sump. Where in my opinion, it bel
ongs.. So , when you see 160 f as your oil temp, it is actually close to
200 in the bottom of the sump. More then enough to boil off the moistu
re you guys are concerned with if your flight is 30 minutes or more. My
.02 cents worth.......
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
---------- Original Message ----------
From: Bill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps
I just started doing that (running less oil) with some apparent
success. I haven't logged the numbers yet but my low temp warnings
stopped during the last winter time flight.
Actually, I've done 2 things trying to bring the oil temps up into the
165 to 200F range during cruise. I have the problem in both summer and
winter.
I don't have the cooling air valve. So first, I fabricated a simple
plate to block some cooling air going to the oil cooler. The plate is
installed where the hose exits the plenum. It's slotted so I can adjust
it on the ground. Blocking about 1/3rd of the flow, most but not all
low temp alarms (i.e. <165F) were suppressed.
Then, during my last oil change, instead of putting in 9 Qts (to get
8Qts on the dip stick), I put in 7 Qts. During my last flight, I didn't
get any low temp alarms. I'm considering going to 6 next time.
My testing has not been all that rigorous. I'm just trying to get to
the point where I don't get any low temp or high temp alarms during
cruise. I figure that I will accept temps that fall slightly outside
the 165-200 range during hot day climbs and low power descents. As I
understand it, the objective on the low side is to burn off moisture,
and on the high side to indicate proper engine cooling and avoid oil
breakdown - but I'm not sure at what temps the oil starts to breakdown.
Anyway, I think I'm where I want to be for the winter and I'll adjust as
required when moving to the warmer months.
Bill
On 1/15/2013 1:53 AM, woxofswa wrote:
>
> This thread reminded me of something. Years ago (decades actually), I
knew a mechanic who swore by running two quarts lower oil quantity as a
baseline in winter than summer. I never thought it completely through
because I was just a renter in those days, but it might make a differenc
e.
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa, AZ
> Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. Finishi
ng kit and FWF kit in progress.
>
>
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
____________________________________________________________
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps |
Understood. My presumption is that the temperature ranges quoted in the
O-540, IO-540 Series Operator's Manual take the sending unit location
into account. The manual states:
Oil Temperature: The maximum permissible oil temperature is 245F
(118C). For maximum engine life, desired oil Temperature should be
maintained between 165F (73.8C) and 200F(93.3C) in level flight
cruise conditions
So I set my alarms (bar graph changes to red and a msg is generated on
the GRT) at 165 and 200 with the understanding that the actual temps
are different throughout the oil system.
The only unknown here is the accuracy of the sender. I guess the sender
could be immersed in some heated oil and the reading compared with a
calibrated gauge of some sort. I'll probably never do it but I have had
an oil temp sender fail already (reads zero or very low).
On 1/15/2013 10:24 AM, n801bh@netzero.com wrote:
>
> IIRC.... The Lycoming engines have their oil temperature sending units
> placed *after *the oil cooler, not in the sump. Where in my opinion,
> it belongs.. So , when you see 160 f as your oil temp, it is actually
> close to 200 in the bottom of the sump. More then enough to boil off
> the moisture you guys are concerned with if your flight is 30 minutes
> or more. My .02 cents worth.......
>
> Ben Haas
> N801BH
> www.haaspowerair.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps |
On 1/15/2013 12:46 PM, Bill Watson wrote:
snip
>
> The only unknown here is the accuracy of the sender. I guess the
> sender could be immersed in some heated oil and the reading compared
> with a calibrated gauge of some sort.
use boiling water .... 212 @ sea level ........ or calculate the boiling
point here: http://www.csgnetwork.com/h2oboilcalc.html
Those single cup water heaters do an excellent job.
Linn
> I'll probably never do it but I have had an oil temp sender fail
> already (reads zero or very low).
>
>
> On 1/15/2013 10:24 AM, n801bh@netzero.com wrote:
>>
>> IIRC.... The Lycoming engines have their oil temperature sending
>> units placed *after *the oil cooler, not in the sump. Where in my
>> opinion, it belongs.. So , when you see 160 f as your oil temp, it is
>> actually close to 200 in the bottom of the sump. More then enough to
>> boil off the moisture you guys are concerned with if your flight is
>> 30 minutes or more. My .02 cents worth.......
>>
>> Ben Haas
>> N801BH
>> www.haaspowerair.com
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps |
Bill... I had a rather interesting discussion with a Lycoming rep at OSH
a few years back on this exact topic..... I posed the question of " sup
pose a builder had a very efficient oil cooler and it removed 60 -70 F h
eat from the oil and the sending unit was positioned at the outflow of t
he cooler... Are Lycomings built to run with 300f+ degree oil...... He t
hought about it for a minute and told me the placement for the sending u
nit is based on the airframe manufacturers choice and most all of them
spec it to be on the discharge side of the oil cooler to mask improper b
reathing cowlings.... I thought that was strange as Lycoming warrenties
cooked motors, not the plane maker.... He agreed it was a poor choice f
or the location of the sending unit...
The take home message is when you guys see oil temps of 245f on climb ou
t you can bet the actual temp is pushing 300 degrees in the motor itself
.... YUCK...
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
---------- Original Message ----------
From: Bill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps
Understood. My presumption is that the temperature ranges quoted in the
O-540, IO-540 Series Operator's Manual take the sending unit location i
nto account. The manual states:
Oil Temperature: The maximum permissible oil temperature is 245F (118C)
. For maximum engine life, desired oil Temperature should be maintained
between 165F (73.8C) and 200F(93.3C) in level flight cruise conditions
So I set my alarms (bar graph changes to red and a msg is generated on t
he GRT) at 165 and 200 with the understanding that the actual temps are
different throughout the oil system.
The only unknown here is the accuracy of the sender. I guess the sender
could be immersed in some heated oil and the reading compared with a ca
librated gauge of some sort. I'll probably never do it but I have had a
n oil temp sender fail already (reads zero or very low).
On 1/15/2013 10:24 AM, n801bh@netzero.com wrote:
IIRC.... The Lycoming engines have their oil temperature sending units p
laced after the oil cooler, not in the sump. Where in my opinion, it bel
ongs.. So , when you see 160 f as your oil temp, it is actually close to
200 in the bottom of the sump. More then enough to boil off the moistu
re you guys are concerned with if your flight is 30 minutes or more. My
.02 cents worth.......
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
=======
____________________________________________________________
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps |
I have factory oil temp on my Mooney where the oil enters the oil galleys,
whether that is from the cooler or the bypass passage. I have an EI oil
temp gauge plumbed in place of the oil galley plug at front of the engine.
The difference between the two is in the resolution of the factory analog
gauge. The oil cooler isn't that efficient, and so it runs 205-210 at
average temps, and 215-220 on a hot day climb. I doubt the sump temp is
that different, as the oil that goes to the heads cools as it drains
through the external tubes back to the sump, and the rest of the oil drains
internally in the crankcase, never exposed to cylinder head temps. The 245
redline is based on where the factory probe is placed and data Lyc has
about temps elsewhere in the engine. If high temps are a concern, run the
Shell or Exxon semi-synthetic that resists the heat better than mineral oil.
On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 5:01 PM, n801bh@netzero.com <n801bh@netzero.com>wrote:
> Bill... I had a rather interesting discussion with a Lycoming rep at OSH a
> few years back on this exact topic..... I posed the question of " suppose a
> builder had a very efficient oil cooler and it removed 60 -70 F heat from
> the oil and the sending unit was positioned at the outflow of the
> cooler... Are Lycomings built to run with 300f+ degree oil...... He thought
> about it for a minute and told me the placement for the sending unit is
> based on the airframe manufacturers choice and most all of them spec it to
> be on the discharge side of the oil cooler to mask improper breathing
> cowlings.... I thought that was strange as Lycoming warrenties cooked
> motors, not the plane maker.... He agreed it was a poor choice for the
> location of the sending unit...
>
> The take home message is when you guys see oil temps of 245f on climb out
> you can bet the actual temp is pushing 300 degrees in the motor itself....
> YUCK...
>
> Ben Haas
> N801BH
> www.haaspowerair.com
>
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: Bill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps
> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 12:46:32 -0500
>
> Understood. My presumption is that the temperature ranges quoted in the
> O-540, IO-540 Series Operator's Manual take the sending unit location into
> account. The manual states:
>
> Oil Temperature: The maximum permissible oil temperature is 245F (118C).
> For maximum engine life, desired oil Temperature should be maintained
> between 165F (73.8C) and 200F(93.3C) in level flight cruise conditions
>
> So I set my alarms (bar graph changes to red and a msg is generated on the
> GRT) at 165 and 200 with the understanding that the actual temps are
> different throughout the oil system.
>
> The only unknown here is the accuracy of the sender. I guess the sender
> could be immersed in some heated oil and the reading compared with a
> calibrated gauge of some sort. I'll probably never do it but I have had an
> oil temp sender fail already (reads zero or very low).
>
>
> On 1/15/2013 10:24 AM, n801bh@netzero.com wrote:
>
>
> IIRC.... The Lycoming engines have their oil temperature sending units
> placed *after *the oil cooler, not in the sump. Where in my opinion, it
> belongs.. So , when you see 160 f as your oil temp, it is actually close to
> 200 in the bottom of the sump. More then enough to boil off the moisture
> you guys are concerned with if your flight is 30 minutes or more. My .02
> cents worth.......
>
> Ben Haas
> N801BH
> www.haaspowerair.com
>
>
> *
>
> ====================================http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ====================================tronics.com
> ====================================www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
> *
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
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>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Cowl Replacement Update |
Someone asked to see the front view of the Showplanes cowl to review the FI
inlet area.
Here you go!
Robin
[cid:image005.jpg@01CDF355.5CBA37D0][cid:image006.jpg@01CDF355.5CBA37D0]
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