Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:44 AM - Re: Cowl Replacement Update (Ralph E. Capen)
2. 06:37 AM - Re: Cowl Replacement Update (Bill Watson)
3. 06:52 AM - Re: Cowl Replacement Update (Rhonda Bewley)
4. 06:55 AM - Re: Re: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps (Bill Watson)
5. 08:05 AM - Bottom wing skin question (Bill and Tami Britton)
6. 08:47 AM - Upcoming RV-10 Composite Class (Dave Saylor)
7. 08:59 AM - Re: Bottom wing skin question (Ralph E. Capen)
8. 09:39 AM - Re: Bottom wing skin question (Bob Leffler)
9. 09:55 AM - Re: Bottom wing skin question (Gordon Anderson)
10. 10:30 AM - Rear baffling (Seano)
11. 06:00 PM - Re: Rear baffling (Carl Froehlich)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Cowl Replacement Update |
Thanks - I was one of the ones that requested a front-view...
-----Original Message-----
From: Robin Marks
Sent: Jan 15, 2013 10:20 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Cowl Replacement Update
Someone asked to see the front view of the Showplanes cowl to review the FI inlet
area.
Here you go!
Robin
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Cowl Replacement Update |
I didn't ask but thanks. Now I get it. A very different approach with
the ram air resulting in a very good looking nose.
Bill
On 1/15/2013 10:20 PM, Robin Marks wrote:
>
> Someone asked to see the front view of the Showplanes cowl to review
> the FI inlet area.
>
> Here you go!
>
> Robin
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Cowl Replacement Update |
Looks great!!
Rhonda Barrett-Bewley
Barrett Precision Engines
2870-B N. Sheridan Rd.
Tulsa, OK 74115
(918) 835-1089 phone
(918) 835-1754 fax
www.barrettprecisionengines.com
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 9:20 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Cowl Replacement Update
Someone asked to see the front view of the Showplanes cowl to review the
FI inlet area.
Here you go!
Robin
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps |
I'm trying to wrap my head around this and two things come to mind:
1. 245F is an extreme redline in the same way that the Lycoming
cylinder head redline of 500F or 435F continuous is a bit extreme
for anything I'd want to run and maintain. So I generally wouldn't
want to run at 245F whatever that actually reflects (so when does
engine oil start to break down?)
2. It makes gut sense to me that the combination of the oil cooler and
all the various sources of heat in the engine would combine to
produce some sort of equilibrium temperature in the circulating
oil. That is, while there would be differences from point to point,
they wouldn't directly reflect the efficiency of the cooler or the
contribution of given engine component to the heating. The location
of the temp sender would never quite be that critical as long as
it's somewhere in the system. Kelly, I think that is reflective of
your experience with the Mooney.
BTW, I'm currently scheduled for Lycoming engine school in a few
months. It's some $$$ but I figure it's worth it for me since I'm still
not an engine guy and want to gain some confidence there. Anyone here
ever attended?
Bill
On 1/15/2013 7:19 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
> I have factory oil temp on my Mooney where the oil enters the oil
> galleys, whether that is from the cooler or the bypass passage. I have
> an EI oil temp gauge plumbed in place of the oil galley plug at front
> of the engine. The difference between the two is in the resolution of
> the factory analog gauge. The oil cooler isn't that efficient, and so
> it runs 205-210 at average temps, and 215-220 on a hot day climb. I
> doubt the sump temp is that different, as the oil that goes to the
> heads cools as it drains through the external tubes back to the sump,
> and the rest of the oil drains internally in the crankcase, never
> exposed to cylinder head temps. The 245 redline is based on where the
> factory probe is placed and data Lyc has about temps elsewhere in the
> engine. If high temps are a concern, run the Shell or Exxon
> semi-synthetic that resists the heat better than mineral oil.
>
> On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 5:01 PM, n801bh@netzero.com
> <mailto:n801bh@netzero.com> <n801bh@netzero.com
> <mailto:n801bh@netzero.com>> wrote:
>
> Bill... I had a rather interesting discussion with a Lycoming rep
> at OSH a few years back on this exact topic..... I posed the
> question of " suppose a builder had a very efficient oil cooler
> and it removed 60 -70 F heat from the oil and the sending unit was
> positioned at the outflow of the cooler... Are Lycomings built to
> run with 300f+ degree oil...... He thought about it for a minute
> and told me the placement for the sending unit is based on the
> airframe manufacturers choice and most all of them spec it to be
> on the discharge side of the oil cooler to mask improper breathing
> cowlings.... I thought that was strange as Lycoming warrenties
> cooked motors, not the plane maker.... He agreed it was a poor
> choice for the location of the sending unit...
>
> The take home message is when you guys see oil temps of 245f on
> climb out you can bet the actual temp is pushing 300 degrees in
> the motor itself.... YUCK...
>
> Ben Haas
> N801BH
> www.haaspowerair.com <http://www.haaspowerair.com>
>
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: Bill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com
> <mailto:Mauledriver@nc.rr.com>>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Cold Wx Ops and Oil temps
> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 12:46:32 -0500
>
> Understood. My presumption is that the temperature ranges quoted
> in the O-540, IO-540 Series Operator's Manual take the sending
> unit location into account. The manual states:
>
> Oil Temperature: The maximum permissible oil temperature is
> 245F (118C). For maximum engine life, desired oil Temperature
> should be maintained between 165F (73.8C) and 200F(93.3C) in
> level flight cruise conditions
>
> So I set my alarms (bar graph changes to red and a msg is
> generated on the GRT) at 165 and 200 with the understanding that
> the actual temps are different throughout the oil system.
>
> The only unknown here is the accuracy of the sender. I guess the
> sender could be immersed in some heated oil and the reading
> compared with a calibrated gauge of some sort. I'll probably never
> do it but I have had an oil temp sender fail already (reads zero
> or very low).
>
>
> On 1/15/2013 10:24 AM, n801bh@netzero.com
> <mailto:n801bh@netzero.com> wrote:
>>
>> IIRC.... The Lycoming engines have their oil temperature sending
>> units placed *after *the oil cooler, not in the sump. Where in my
>> opinion, it belongs.. So , when you see 160 f as your oil temp,
>> it is actually close to 200 in the bottom of the sump. More then
>> enough to boil off the moisture you guys are concerned with if
>> your flight is 30 minutes or more. My .02 cents worth.......
>>
>> Ben Haas
>> N801BH
>> www.haaspowerair.com <http://www.haaspowerair.com/>
>
> : 2638/5534 - Release Date: 01/15/13
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Bottom wing skin question |
I'm riveting on the bottom inboard wing skins and was curious if the
holes that get drilled out to #19 for the nutplates (inboard most rib)
need dimpled for a screw. I've dimpled the holes for the rivets that
hold the nutplates on but does the screw hole itself need dimpled. If
so, I've already riveted on one of the skins. Can it just be machine
countersunk??? The instructions don't mention dimpling or
countersinking (atleast up to this point) the screw holes, but as has
been mentioned before, the further along in the build we go the more
vague the instructions get.
Thanks in advance for any help,
Bill
Message 6
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| Subject: | Upcoming RV-10 Composite Class |
Does anyone know a builder near Tucson who is close to installing his
cabin cover? He and I spoke briefly a few weeks ago about having it
installed during our upcoming class. If anyone can pass on a message,
I'd like to firm up some details.
Same goes for someone in Washington state (Arlington area?) who needs
doors assembled.
Please email or give me a call.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Bottom wing skin question |
Is the nutplate for a countersunk type screw? Is it on the wing airfoil? If yes,
it should be a countersunk type screw and nutplate - and the #19 hole should
be dimpled. Machine countersinking would remove too much metal to hold (IMHO)
the parts together.
I think you are referring to the area on the underside of the fuselage where the
fuselage skin overlaps the wing skin - which would mean yes to all of the above....
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill and Tami Britton
Sent: Jan 16, 2013 11:05 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Bottom wing skin question
I'm riveting on the bottom inboard wing skins and
was curious if the holes that get drilled out to #19 for the nutplates (inboard
most rib) need dimpled for a screw. I've dimpled the holes for the rivets
that hold the nutplates on but does the screw hole itself need dimpled. If
so, I've already riveted on one of the skins. Can it just be machine
countersunk??? The instructions don't mention dimpling or countersinking
(atleast up to this point) the screw holes, but as has been mentioned before,
the further along in the build we go the more vague the instructions
get.
Thanks in advance for any help,
Bill
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Bottom wing skin question |
Bill,
After the tail, Vans assumes you are an expert on these things and doesn't d
ocument what they consider obvious. The fuselage plans are even less verbos
e.
Yes, the screw hole needs dimpled. You are going to have the wing root cove
r piece screwed into those holes. Both pieces need to be dimpled to allow e
verything to seat properly.
Countersinking where you need to shouldn't be an issue where you've already r
iveted the wing skin.
Bob
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 16, 2013, at 11:05 AM, "Bill and Tami Britton" <william@gbta.net> wro
te:
I'm riveting on the bottom inboard wing skins and was curious if the holes t
hat get drilled out to #19 for the nutplates (inboard most rib) need dimpled
for a screw. I've dimpled the holes for the rivets that hold the nutplates
on but does the screw hole itself need dimpled. If so, I've already rivete
d on one of the skins. Can it just be machine countersunk??? The instructi
ons don't mention dimpling or countersinking (atleast up to this point) the s
crew holes, but as has been mentioned before, the further along in the build
we go the more vague the instructions get.
Thanks in advance for any help,
Bill
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Bottom wing skin question |
Hi Bill,
On the bottom side of the wings the skin and rib should be dimpled for
the nutplates. You can confirm by checking the nut plates called out on
page 20-6 (K1100-08).
I was unclear on this and machine countersunk them at the same time as
the top skins (I was getting everything done real fast that day ;-) ).
The result is so-so - its functionally OK but the hole gets slightly
enlarged since the 2 sheets are not quite thick enough to take the
countersink (unlike the top skins). If you have a pneumatic squeezer,
dimpling two sheets at once should be easy.
Cheers,
Gordon Anderson
41015 Switzerland
On Jan 16, 2013, at 5:05 PM, Bill and Tami Britton wrote:
> I'm riveting on the bottom inboard wing skins and was curious if the
holes that get drilled out to #19 for the nutplates (inboard most rib)
need dimpled for a screw. I've dimpled the holes for the rivets that
hold the nutplates on but does the screw hole itself need dimpled. If
so, I've already riveted on one of the skins. Can it just be machine
countersunk??? The instructions don't mention dimpling or
countersinking (atleast up to this point) the screw holes, but as has
been mentioned before, the further along in the build we go the more
vague the instructions get.
>
> Thanks in advance for any help,
> Bill
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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What is the consensus on rear cowling baffle length. I think mine is 2inches and
I see fold marks where air might be escaping. Is shorter better?
Sent from my iPhone
Message 11
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Not sure on what length you are referring to. The thumb rule I know is
there should be 3/8" to 1/2" clearance between the top of the baffle
aluminum backing plate and the cowl. The baffle material will of course be
longer to both extend below the top and attach to the aluminum plate, bridge
the gap to the cowl and have another inch or more to bend over to form with
the top of the cowl so that it does not get blown out from the cowl intake
air.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Seano
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 1:23 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Rear baffling
What is the consensus on rear cowling baffle length. I think mine is 2inches
and I see fold marks where air might be escaping. Is shorter better?
Sent from my iPhone
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