Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:13 AM - Re: Bottom wing skin question (Werner Schneider)
2. 03:20 AM - Re: Cabin Top Woes (Patrick Pulis)
3. 06:30 AM - Re: Re: Rear Seat Heat Issue (Bill Watson)
4. 07:21 AM - Re: Cabin Top Woes (Bill Watson)
5. 07:35 AM - Free Wing Stand - KDLZ (rleffler)
6. 09:01 AM - Re: Cabin Top Woes (Les Kearney)
7. 09:17 AM - Oil door deformation in flight - a sealing option (Bill Watson)
8. 11:41 AM - Re: Cabin Top Woes (Patrick Pulis)
9. 11:42 AM - Re: Oil door deformation in flight - a sealing option (Chris)
10. 12:56 PM - Re: Oil door deformation in flight - a sealing option (Ron B.)
11. 01:01 PM - Re: Aft-deck F-1011 Bulkhead riveting (Ron B.)
12. 01:29 PM - Re: Top Cowl aft edge - was Oil door deformation in flight (Carl Froehlich)
13. 01:57 PM - Re: Re: Oil door deformation in flight - a sealing option (Robin Marks)
14. 01:58 PM - Re: Re: Aft-deck F-1011 Bulkhead riveting (Carlos Trigo)
15. 02:13 PM - Re: Top Cowl aft edge - was Oil door deformation in flight (Pascal)
16. 05:17 PM - Re: Top Cowl aft edge - was Oil door deformation in flight (Chris)
17. 05:35 PM - Re: Top Cowl aft edge - was Oil door deformation in flight (Carl Froehlich)
18. 05:42 PM - Re: Top Cowl aft edge - was Oil door deformation in flight ()
19. 05:46 PM - Re: Top Cowl aft edge - was Oil door deformation in flight (Pascal)
20. 06:34 PM - Re: Re: Aft-deck F-1011 Bulkhead riveting (Kelly McMullen)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Bottom wing skin question |
Gordon,
did you check with Van's if that still fits the bill of structural
integrity?
Cheers Werner
On 16.01.2013 18:03, Gordon Anderson wrote:
> Hi Bill,
>
> On the bottom side of the wings the skin and rib should be dimpled for
> the nutplates. You can confirm by checking the nut plates called out on
> page 20-6 (K1100-08).
>
> I was unclear on this and machine countersunk them at the same time as
> the top skins (I was getting everything done real fast that day ;-) ).
> The result is so-so - its functionally OK but the hole gets slightly
> enlarged since the 2 sheets are not quite thick enough to take the
> countersink (unlike the top skins). If you have a pneumatic squeezer,
> dimpling two sheets at once should be easy.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Gordon Anderson
> 41015 Switzerland
>
> On Jan 16, 2013, at 5:05 PM, Bill and Tami Britton wrote:
>
>> I'm riveting on the bottom inboard wing skins and was curious if the
>> holes that get drilled out to #19 for the nutplates (inboard most rib)
>> need dimpled for a screw. I've dimpled the holes for the rivets that
>> hold the nutplates on but does the screw hole itself need dimpled. If
>> so, I've already riveted on one of the skins. Can it just be machine
>> countersunk??? The instructions don't mention dimpling or
>> countersinking (atleast up to this point) the screw holes, but as has
>> been mentioned before, the further along in the build we go the more
>> vague the instructions get.
>> Thanks in advance for any help,
>> Bill
>> *
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> *
>>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin Top Woes |
Vernon,
I had to go past the scribe lines too. Regrettably the 'standard fit' is tight
and variable due to the imprecise nature of the fibreglass moulding. Just keep
sanding and trimming until it all fits. It's tight, but you eventually get
there.
Warm regards
Patrick
On 21/01/2013, at 9:00 AM, Vernon Franklin <vernon.franklin@gmail.com> wrote:
> I need some advice. I am trying to fit the cabin top, and it just wont fit into
the door area.
>
> As you can see from the attached pics, I have a 37 1/16" space to work with.
But if I sand the cabin top down that far, I am almost in the door channel.
>
> Did anyone else have to sand down this far? How far is to far to sand?
>
> Also, did anyone else's "scribe lines" seem completely random, and at times be
almost 1/2" off completely? I have attached a picture example of that as well.
> <image.jpeg><image.jpeg><image.jpeg>
>
> --
> Vernon Franklin
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Rear Seat Heat Issue |
We had a slightly different problem with a draft coming from the rear
and cooling my front seat passenger's right side. I have Flightline's
panels on the rear baggage covers which has foam and a pretty tight
fit. I had asked a back seat passenger to feel around but got no joy.
Finally on a cold flight, my SO crawled back and felt around and it
seemed to come from the baggage door. I had tried to put some sealing
around the door previously but pulled it out. I did some careful
sealing there and the problem seems to be resolved.
Bill
On 1/15/2012 3:30 PM, jchang10 wrote:
>
> Hmm, a few people mentioned once they added a backing to the baggage cover to
seal those gaps, they have not had any complaints about rear seat heat.
>
> I'll start looking for something to use for backing, and hope it solves my problem
too.
>
> Thanks again!
> Jae
>
> --------
> #40533 RV-10
> First flight 10/19/2011
> Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363882#363882
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin Top Woes |
Same here - and I go back to the older green top.
It occurs to me that fiberglass top is actually pretty consistent from
part to part - even green to pink. They all fit the same way is rather
crudely. I'd venture to say everyone has to go past the scribe lines
(they are a good starting point) and everyone ends up with some very
thin areas. The same thin areas from what I can see in this thread.
I have 2 Kit log pages here that won't be much help but I talk a bit
about tools. The only thing I can say with confidence is either work
outside or get a filter bag for your shop vac.
http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=MauleDriver&project=224&category=2155&log=55674&row=12
It gets better,
Bill
On 1/21/2013 6:24 AM, Patrick Pulis wrote:
>
> Vernon,
>
> I had to go past the scribe lines too. Regrettably the 'standard fit' is tight
and variable due to the imprecise nature of the fibreglass moulding. Just keep
sanding and trimming until it all fits. It's tight, but you eventually get
there.
>
> Warm regards
>
> Patrick
>
> On 21/01/2013, at 9:00 AM, Vernon Franklin <vernon.franklin@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I need some advice. I am trying to fit the cabin top, and it just wont fit
into the door area.
>>
>> As you can see from the attached pics, I have a 37 1/16" space to work with.
But if I sand the cabin top down that far, I am almost in the door channel.
>>
>> Did anyone else have to sand down this far? How far is to far to sand?
>>
>> Also, did anyone else's "scribe lines" seem completely random, and at times
be almost 1/2" off completely? I have attached a picture example of that as well.
>> <image.jpeg><image.jpeg><image.jpeg>
>>
>> --
>> Vernon Franklin
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Free Wing Stand - KDLZ |
I will have a RV-10 wing stand available in a couple weeks.
It's free, but you must pick it up a KDLZ (central Ohio).
bob
--------
Bob Leffler
N410BL - Paint - 90% done, 90% to go stage
RV-10 #40684
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392816#392816
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/wing_108.jpg
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin Top Woes |
Hi
For those who can, part of Dave Saylor's composite course is seeing how a canopy
is trimmed. Once you see what is involved, it becomes a much less daunting task.
It is the not knowing that causes the apprehension when trimming.
Dave's guys make it look easy peasy.
Cheers
Les
Sent from my iPhone
On 2013-01-21, at 8:21 AM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Same here - and I go back to the older green top.
>
> It occurs to me that fiberglass top is actually pretty consistent from part to
part - even green to pink. They all fit the same way is rather crudely. I'd
venture to say everyone has to go past the scribe lines (they are a good starting
point) and everyone ends up with some very thin areas. The same thin areas
from what I can see in this thread.
>
> I have 2 Kit log pages here that won't be much help but I talk a bit about tools.
The only thing I can say with confidence is either work outside or get a
filter bag for your shop vac.
> http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=MauleDriver&project=224&category=2155&log=55674&row=12
>
> It gets better,
> Bill
>
> On 1/21/2013 6:24 AM, Patrick Pulis wrote:
>>
>> Vernon,
>>
>> I had to go past the scribe lines too. Regrettably the 'standard fit' is tight
and variable due to the imprecise nature of the fibreglass moulding. Just
keep sanding and trimming until it all fits. It's tight, but you eventually get
there.
>>
>> Warm regards
>>
>> Patrick
>>
>> On 21/01/2013, at 9:00 AM, Vernon Franklin <vernon.franklin@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I need some advice. I am trying to fit the cabin top, and it just wont fit
into the door area.
>>>
>>> As you can see from the attached pics, I have a 37 1/16" space to work with.
But if I sand the cabin top down that far, I am almost in the door channel.
>>>
>>> Did anyone else have to sand down this far? How far is to far to sand?
>>>
>>> Also, did anyone else's "scribe lines" seem completely random, and at times
be almost 1/2" off completely? I have attached a picture example of that as
well.
>>> <image.jpeg><image.jpeg><image.jpeg>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Vernon Franklin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Oil door deformation in flight - a sealing option |
I lost track of the thread where this discussion was taking place but I
said that I'd post a pic of some silicone strips I used somewhat
successfully to reduce the oil door deformation in flight.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t459zmd5b3g1pue/Oil%20Door%203.jpg
You can see I used the hidden hinge and the two latches on the front and
rear edges of the door. I used a piece of foam overlayed with some
light wt glass cloth to stiffen the door. I later glommed some graphite
strands on top to absolutely no effect. Please ignore those.
In flight, the door would bow outward along 3 of the 4 edges. Notably
it did not bow out on the hinge edge since there is a stack of aluminum
strips underneath hinge attach point.
I've since added the 3 strips of silicone you see in the pic. It's the
same silicone I used for the engine baffling. They are bonded with
high temp silicone which is just about the only thing that will bond to
that stuff. These significantly reduced the bowing, especially along
the left edge where the strip is continuous. Leakage around the latches
appears to still allow some bowing along the front and rear edges. Not
sure how to address that at this point.
In the end, I'd like to fabricate a new, much stiffer door. A
sandwiched carbon fiber piece should do the trick. I like the hinge.
I'm not in love with the latches but not sure what I would use in their
place. Camlocs might be good but would require a tool to operate.
FYI, I had inserted some small strips of stainless steel into the
cowling as catches for the latches. For those of you worried about the
door opening in flight, they flew open on me twice when one of the steel
catches unbonded itself. The door opened but was securely retained by
the hinge only. It turns out you can fly at moderate cruise speeds with
the door hanging open. It didn't even appear to be under much stress.
Bill "The Texas State Society of Washington DC throws a helluva party"
Watson
N215TG
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin Top Woes |
Vernon,
I found a pneumatic die grinder with one of the blades supplied in the kit to be
the best way to trim the cabin top. Thereafter I used an orbital pneumatic
sander (with inbuilt vacuum bag - cost me $39) with 80 grit paper to be the best
tool. A pneumatic air file was also used to get into the corners.
I hope this helps.
Warm regards
Patrick
On 22/01/2013, at 1:51 AM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Same here - and I go back to the older green top.
>
> It occurs to me that fiberglass top is actually pretty consistent from part to
part - even green to pink. They all fit the same way is rather crudely. I'd
venture to say everyone has to go past the scribe lines (they are a good starting
point) and everyone ends up with some very thin areas. The same thin areas
from what I can see in this thread.
>
> I have 2 Kit log pages here that won't be much help but I talk a bit about tools.
The only thing I can say with confidence is either work outside or get a
filter bag for your shop vac.
> http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=MauleDriver&project=224&category=2155&log=55674&row=12
>
> It gets better,
> Bill
>
> On 1/21/2013 6:24 AM, Patrick Pulis wrote:
>>
>> Vernon,
>>
>> I had to go past the scribe lines too. Regrettably the 'standard fit' is tight
and variable due to the imprecise nature of the fibreglass moulding. Just
keep sanding and trimming until it all fits. It's tight, but you eventually get
there.
>>
>> Warm regards
>>
>> Patrick
>>
>> On 21/01/2013, at 9:00 AM, Vernon Franklin <vernon.franklin@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I need some advice. I am trying to fit the cabin top, and it just wont fit
into the door area.
>>>
>>> As you can see from the attached pics, I have a 37 1/16" space to work with.
But if I sand the cabin top down that far, I am almost in the door channel.
>>>
>>> Did anyone else have to sand down this far? How far is to far to sand?
>>>
>>> Also, did anyone else's "scribe lines" seem completely random, and at times
be almost 1/2" off completely? I have attached a picture example of that as
well.
>>> <image.jpeg><image.jpeg><image.jpeg>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Vernon Franklin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Oil door deformation in flight - a sealing option |
I do not have a picture handy... my door has the same hidden hinge and two
flush latches on the left side of the door next to each other; one forward
and one aft. But I did use 2 layers (maybe more can't remember) of carbon
tow on the outside surface. I have no added sealing features. The door is
VERY stiff and I do not notice any position change in flight.
I do notice the aft edge of my cowl balloons up a bit, about 1/16 inch in
flight. This is just due to the slack in the aft hinge pins toward the
center of the cowl.
-Chris
N919AR
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Watson
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 12:16 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Oil door deformation in flight - a sealing option
I lost track of the thread where this discussion was taking place but I said
that I'd post a pic of some silicone strips I used somewhat successfully to
reduce the oil door deformation in flight.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t459zmd5b3g1pue/Oil%20Door%203.jpg
You can see I used the hidden hinge and the two latches on the front and
rear edges of the door. I used a piece of foam overlayed with some light wt
glass cloth to stiffen the door. I later glommed some graphite strands on
top to absolutely no effect. Please ignore those.
In flight, the door would bow outward along 3 of the 4 edges. Notably it
did not bow out on the hinge edge since there is a stack of aluminum strips
underneath hinge attach point.
I've since added the 3 strips of silicone you see in the pic. It's the
same silicone I used for the engine baffling. They are bonded with
high temp silicone which is just about the only thing that will bond to
that stuff. These significantly reduced the bowing, especially along
the left edge where the strip is continuous. Leakage around the latches
appears to still allow some bowing along the front and rear edges. Not sure
how to address that at this point.
In the end, I'd like to fabricate a new, much stiffer door. A sandwiched
carbon fiber piece should do the trick. I like the hinge.
I'm not in love with the latches but not sure what I would use in their
place. Camlocs might be good but would require a tool to operate.
FYI, I had inserted some small strips of stainless steel into the cowling as
catches for the latches. For those of you worried about the door opening in
flight, they flew open on me twice when one of the steel catches unbonded
itself. The door opened but was securely retained by the hinge only. It
turns out you can fly at moderate cruise speeds with the door hanging open.
It didn't even appear to be under much stress.
Bill "The Texas State Society of Washington DC throws a helluva party"
Watson
N215TG
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Oil door deformation in flight - a sealing option |
The only thing about flying with the door open is loss of cooling. My original
opened twice in flight and it just sat there with no movement. I landed right
away. The alum. cover I made now stays put.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392845#392845
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Aft-deck F-1011 Bulkhead riveting |
Removed the fairing today and all is good. All steps on page 10-22 were completed.
I don't recall where we would have obtained the instructions at the time or
we might just have thought it was one of Van's figure it out yourself steps.
This is just why I follow these forums. Had we missed something here , this post
could have saved our lives.
On Sunday, after reading the first post looking for help, I pulled out my manual
and looked for where the instructions said to rivet those left out rivets with
no luck. I later read that the OP had pages missing and it turned out so did
I.
Thanks Carlos as you got me looking.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392847#392847
Message 12
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| Subject: | Top Cowl aft edge - was Oil door deformation in flight |
On the aft edge cowl ballooning up, I have a plenum so my cowl did not
balloon up but I did have a "smoke trail" from the ends of the pins -
evidenced there was vibration between the smaller diameter pin and the
hinge. I figured such relative motion was a quick way to break off cowl
mounting hinge eyelets.
Attached photos show how I fixed the problem. It takes some careful
measurements to get the mount hole to end up flush to the bottom of the
cowl, then drill the hole through the cowl for the #8 screw (the screw goes
into a nutplate). Measure many times then drill. The white grease you see
allows for the final movement of the angle to go flush with the bottom of
the cowl. I also added a few layers of carbon fiber in this area to
preclude the brace angle from ablating the top of the cowl. Add these
layers before fit up of the brace.
70 hours now with no rattle, no movement, and no evidence of the top of the
cowl wearing.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 2:43 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oil door deformation in flight - a sealing option
I do not have a picture handy... my door has the same hidden hinge and two
flush latches on the left side of the door next to each other; one forward
and one aft. But I did use 2 layers (maybe more can't remember) of carbon
tow on the outside surface. I have no added sealing features. The door is
VERY stiff and I do not notice any position change in flight.
I do notice the aft edge of my cowl balloons up a bit, about 1/16 inch in
flight. This is just due to the slack in the aft hinge pins toward the
center of the cowl.
-Chris
N919AR
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Watson
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 12:16 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Oil door deformation in flight - a sealing option
I lost track of the thread where this discussion was taking place but I said
that I'd post a pic of some silicone strips I used somewhat successfully to
reduce the oil door deformation in flight.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t459zmd5b3g1pue/Oil%20Door%203.jpg
You can see I used the hidden hinge and the two latches on the front and
rear edges of the door. I used a piece of foam overlayed with some light wt
glass cloth to stiffen the door. I later glommed some graphite strands on
top to absolutely no effect. Please ignore those.
In flight, the door would bow outward along 3 of the 4 edges. Notably it
did not bow out on the hinge edge since there is a stack of aluminum strips
underneath hinge attach point.
I've since added the 3 strips of silicone you see in the pic. It's the
same silicone I used for the engine baffling. They are bonded with
high temp silicone which is just about the only thing that will bond to
that stuff. These significantly reduced the bowing, especially along
the left edge where the strip is continuous. Leakage around the latches
appears to still allow some bowing along the front and rear edges. Not sure
how to address that at this point.
In the end, I'd like to fabricate a new, much stiffer door. A sandwiched
carbon fiber piece should do the trick. I like the hinge.
I'm not in love with the latches but not sure what I would use in their
place. Camlocs might be good but would require a tool to operate.
FYI, I had inserted some small strips of stainless steel into the cowling as
catches for the latches. For those of you worried about the door opening in
flight, they flew open on me twice when one of the steel catches unbonded
itself. The door opened but was securely retained by the hinge only. It
turns out you can fly at moderate cruise speeds with the door hanging open.
It didn't even appear to be under much stress.
Bill "The Texas State Society of Washington DC throws a helluva party"
Watson
N215TG
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Oil door deformation in flight - a sealing option |
Here is how we stiffened the oil door. This is our third RV oil door with a
hidden hinge and a single Hartwell latch. Works great, no deformation.
Robin
[cid:image005.jpg@01CDF7DE.CB72EF40]
[cid:image006.jpg@01CDF7DE.CB72EF40]
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron B.
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 12:55 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Oil door deformation in flight - a sealing option
ronbelliveau@eastlink.ca>>
The only thing about flying with the door open is loss of cooling. My origi
nal opened twice in flight and it just sat there with no movement. I landed
right away. The alum. cover I made now stays put.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392845#392845
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<http://www.avg.com>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Aft-deck F-1011 Bulkhead riveting |
You're welcome Ron
I didn't imagine that my Sunday's cry for help, which turned out to be a
manual error, would be so useful for others .
Fly safe
Carlos
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron B.
Sent: segunda-feira, 21 de Janeiro de 2013 21:02
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Aft-deck F-1011 Bulkhead riveting
<mailto:ronbelliveau@eastlink.ca> ronbelliveau@eastlink.ca>
Removed the fairing today and all is good. All steps on page 10-22 were
completed. I don't recall where we would have obtained the instructions at
the time or we might just have thought it was one of Van's figure it out
yourself steps.
This is just why I follow these forums. Had we missed something here , this
post could have saved our lives.
On Sunday, after reading the first post looking for help, I pulled out my
manual and looked for where the instructions said to rivet those left out
rivets with no luck. I later read that the OP had pages missing and it
turned out so did I.
Thanks Carlos as you got me looking.
Read this topic online here:
<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392847#392847>
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392847#392847
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Top Cowl aft edge - was Oil door deformation in flight |
Being I suffer from the same smoke trails every flight. Did you do the
bracket with the bottom cowl off to allow getting in there and positioning
the bracket or did you have the bottom on and came up with a good estimate
of where to position the firewall facing holes?
Thank you!
Pascal
-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Froehlich
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 1:29 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Top Cowl aft edge - was Oil door deformation in
flight
On the aft edge cowl ballooning up, I have a plenum so my cowl did not
balloon up but I did have a "smoke trail" from the ends of the pins -
evidenced there was vibration between the smaller diameter pin and the
hinge. I figured such relative motion was a quick way to break off cowl
mounting hinge eyelets.
Attached photos show how I fixed the problem. It takes some careful
measurements to get the mount hole to end up flush to the bottom of the
cowl, then drill the hole through the cowl for the #8 screw (the screw goes
into a nutplate). Measure many times then drill. The white grease you see
allows for the final movement of the angle to go flush with the bottom of
the cowl. I also added a few layers of carbon fiber in this area to
preclude the brace angle from ablating the top of the cowl. Add these
layers before fit up of the brace.
70 hours now with no rattle, no movement, and no evidence of the top of the
cowl wearing.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 2:43 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oil door deformation in flight - a sealing option
I do not have a picture handy... my door has the same hidden hinge and two
flush latches on the left side of the door next to each other; one forward
and one aft. But I did use 2 layers (maybe more can't remember) of carbon
tow on the outside surface. I have no added sealing features. The door is
VERY stiff and I do not notice any position change in flight.
I do notice the aft edge of my cowl balloons up a bit, about 1/16 inch in
flight. This is just due to the slack in the aft hinge pins toward the
center of the cowl.
-Chris
N919AR
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Watson
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 12:16 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Oil door deformation in flight - a sealing option
I lost track of the thread where this discussion was taking place but I said
that I'd post a pic of some silicone strips I used somewhat successfully to
reduce the oil door deformation in flight.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t459zmd5b3g1pue/Oil%20Door%203.jpg
You can see I used the hidden hinge and the two latches on the front and
rear edges of the door. I used a piece of foam overlayed with some light wt
glass cloth to stiffen the door. I later glommed some graphite strands on
top to absolutely no effect. Please ignore those.
In flight, the door would bow outward along 3 of the 4 edges. Notably it
did not bow out on the hinge edge since there is a stack of aluminum strips
underneath hinge attach point.
I've since added the 3 strips of silicone you see in the pic. It's the
same silicone I used for the engine baffling. They are bonded with
high temp silicone which is just about the only thing that will bond to
that stuff. These significantly reduced the bowing, especially along
the left edge where the strip is continuous. Leakage around the latches
appears to still allow some bowing along the front and rear edges. Not sure
how to address that at this point.
In the end, I'd like to fabricate a new, much stiffer door. A sandwiched
carbon fiber piece should do the trick. I like the hinge.
I'm not in love with the latches but not sure what I would use in their
place. Camlocs might be good but would require a tool to operate.
FYI, I had inserted some small strips of stainless steel into the cowling as
catches for the latches. For those of you worried about the door opening in
flight, they flew open on me twice when one of the steel catches unbonded
itself. The door opened but was securely retained by the hinge only. It
turns out you can fly at moderate cruise speeds with the door hanging open.
It didn't even appear to be under much stress.
Bill "The Texas State Society of Washington DC throws a helluva party"
Watson
N215TG
Message 16
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| Subject: | Top Cowl aft edge - was Oil door deformation in flight |
Interesting - I had no plans yet to do anything, something like that seems
pretty good. I had wondered if a tapered hinge pin could be devised so it
would tighten up at the last few inches before the pin was fully in its
installed position.
-Chris
N919AR
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 4:29 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Top Cowl aft edge - was Oil door deformation in
flight
On the aft edge cowl ballooning up, I have a plenum so my cowl did not
balloon up but I did have a "smoke trail" from the ends of the pins -
evidenced there was vibration between the smaller diameter pin and the
hinge. I figured such relative motion was a quick way to break off cowl
mounting hinge eyelets.
Attached photos show how I fixed the problem. It takes some careful
measurements to get the mount hole to end up flush to the bottom of the
cowl, then drill the hole through the cowl for the #8 screw (the screw goes
into a nutplate). Measure many times then drill. The white grease you see
allows for the final movement of the angle to go flush with the bottom of
the cowl. I also added a few layers of carbon fiber in this area to
preclude the brace angle from ablating the top of the cowl. Add these
layers before fit up of the brace.
70 hours now with no rattle, no movement, and no evidence of the top of the
cowl wearing.
Carl
Message 17
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| Subject: | Top Cowl aft edge - was Oil door deformation in flight |
It took a lot of measurements to get this right the first time. I did this
after final paint, so I was paranoid about screwing up the paint job.
To outline what I did:
- The angle material is 3/4" x 3/4", 063" aluminum.
- The bracket is a single piece of .063" aluminum. Note the shape - the dip
allows for clearance of the pin locking plate.
- The angle that mounts to the firewall is on the centerline of the vertical
bulkhead flange that is on the other side of the firewall. I wanted this
spot as it would reduce flexing of the thin firewall SS.
- Bottom cowl was on throughout.
- I picked the spot on the top cowl such that it was far enough forward to
not interfere with the cowl pin locking plate but not much further, and
centered between the two cowl pin locking plate screws.
- With the spot marked on a piece of tape on the top cowl and the top cowl
on, put a strip of masking tape on the top of the fuselage to do reference
marks. I measured to perhaps 10" each side of the center line from the spot
on the top cowl, then the "triangle" measurement from these reference marks
to the spot on the cowl where the mounting screw will be. The ideas is to
be able to find the same spot with the cowl off using these measurements.
- With the top cowl on, use a piece of angle that sits on some shims on the
fuselage and spinner. You want this angle to be in exactly the same place
with the top cowl on as off, but not touching the top cowl - just above it.
Measure the distance between the angle and the top cowl where you want to
put the screw.
- With the top cowl off, and after you add a few layers of glass where the
hole will go (but not to interfere with the cowl pin locking plate), measure
the thickness of the cowl where you want to put the screw hole.
- With the top cowl off and angle in place, you can now find the position
where the screw will go into the bracket. The distance below the angle will
be the sum of the thickness of the cowl and the distance you measured
between the top of the cowl and the angle when the top cowl was on. The
spot in the horizontal plane will be on the centerline and per your
measurements to your marks on the fuselage.
- I clekoed the vertical angle onto the firewall. I used clamps to hold the
bracket arm in place as I adjusted the position of the angle that holds the
nutplate.
- Once you think you have the nutplate angle where you want it, mark the
pieces, put a piece of tape on the top of the nutplate angle, put the top
cowl on, drill a #40 hole in your spot enough to go through the cowl and
just enough to make a mark on the angle tape.
- Put your digital camera in the oil door and take a picture of the bracket
to verify the nutplate angle is flush against the top cowl.
- Take the top cowl off and see if you are happy where the nutplate hole
will be. If so, then final drill the bracket to the bulkhead angle and
drill the cowl to #30 and the nutplate hole to #30. Cleko the bracket to
the bulkhead angle, put the top cowl on, cross your fingers and see if the
nutplate hole lines up with the cowl hole. If so, cleko and take another
photo to make sure the nutplate angle is still flush to the top of the cowl.
- Disassemble, rivet the bracket together, drill the screw holes to #19,
countersink the top of the cowl for a SS #19 screw with SS tinnerman, and
rivet the nutplate in place.
- The nutplate angle is firm against the bracket, but not tight. I uses two
#19 nuts to make a locknut so once it would not vibrate loose. Put a dab of
grease between the nutplate angle and the bracket to allow it to rotate
flush to the top of the cowl when you put in the screw.
So, harder to put into words than what it is, but I did scratch my head
trying to figure out how to do this. Hopefully this at least give you
something to start with.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 5:13 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Top Cowl aft edge - was Oil door deformation in
flight
Being I suffer from the same smoke trails every flight. Did you do the
bracket with the bottom cowl off to allow getting in there and positioning
the bracket or did you have the bottom on and came up with a good estimate
of where to position the firewall facing holes?
Thank you!
Pascal
-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Froehlich
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 1:29 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Top Cowl aft edge - was Oil door deformation in
flight
On the aft edge cowl ballooning up, I have a plenum so my cowl did not
balloon up but I did have a "smoke trail" from the ends of the pins -
evidenced there was vibration between the smaller diameter pin and the
hinge. I figured such relative motion was a quick way to break off cowl
mounting hinge eyelets.
Attached photos show how I fixed the problem. It takes some careful
measurements to get the mount hole to end up flush to the bottom of the
cowl, then drill the hole through the cowl for the #8 screw (the screw goes
into a nutplate). Measure many times then drill. The white grease you see
allows for the final movement of the angle to go flush with the bottom of
the cowl. I also added a few layers of carbon fiber in this area to
preclude the brace angle from ablating the top of the cowl. Add these
layers before fit up of the brace.
70 hours now with no rattle, no movement, and no evidence of the top of the
cowl wearing.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 2:43 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oil door deformation in flight - a sealing option
I do not have a picture handy... my door has the same hidden hinge and two
flush latches on the left side of the door next to each other; one forward
and one aft. But I did use 2 layers (maybe more can't remember) of carbon
tow on the outside surface. I have no added sealing features. The door is
VERY stiff and I do not notice any position change in flight.
I do notice the aft edge of my cowl balloons up a bit, about 1/16 inch in
flight. This is just due to the slack in the aft hinge pins toward the
center of the cowl.
-Chris
N919AR
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Watson
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 12:16 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Oil door deformation in flight - a sealing option
I lost track of the thread where this discussion was taking place but I said
that I'd post a pic of some silicone strips I used somewhat successfully to
reduce the oil door deformation in flight.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t459zmd5b3g1pue/Oil%20Door%203.jpg
You can see I used the hidden hinge and the two latches on the front and
rear edges of the door. I used a piece of foam overlayed with some light wt
glass cloth to stiffen the door. I later glommed some graphite strands on
top to absolutely no effect. Please ignore those.
In flight, the door would bow outward along 3 of the 4 edges. Notably it
did not bow out on the hinge edge since there is a stack of aluminum strips
underneath hinge attach point.
I've since added the 3 strips of silicone you see in the pic. It's the
same silicone I used for the engine baffling. They are bonded with
high temp silicone which is just about the only thing that will bond to
that stuff. These significantly reduced the bowing, especially along
the left edge where the strip is continuous. Leakage around the latches
appears to still allow some bowing along the front and rear edges. Not sure
how to address that at this point.
In the end, I'd like to fabricate a new, much stiffer door. A sandwiched
carbon fiber piece should do the trick. I like the hinge.
I'm not in love with the latches but not sure what I would use in their
place. Camlocs might be good but would require a tool to operate.
FYI, I had inserted some small strips of stainless steel into the cowling as
catches for the latches. For those of you worried about the door opening in
flight, they flew open on me twice when one of the steel catches unbonded
itself. The door opened but was securely retained by the hinge only. It
turns out you can fly at moderate cruise speeds with the door hanging open.
It didn't even appear to be under much stress.
Bill "The Texas State Society of Washington DC throws a helluva party"
Watson
N215TG
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Top Cowl aft edge - was Oil door deformation in flight |
Hey Chris,
I only use the hinge pins on the horizontal, preferring Sky Bolts/CamLocs
around the firewall, so this is REALLY less than my 2 cents worth.
Instead of messing with a tapered pin, if you wanted it to snug up the last
few inches, why not just squeeze the bottom couple of eyes a bit tighter, or
angle them a bit to grab the pin?
Just a thought for the pin heads. ;-)
Later, - Lew do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 8:16 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Top Cowl aft edge - was Oil door deformation in
flight
Interesting - I had no plans yet to do anything, something like that seems
pretty good. I had wondered if a tapered hinge pin could be devised so it
would tighten up at the last few inches before the pin was fully in its
installed position.
-Chris
N919AR
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Top Cowl aft edge - was Oil door deformation in flight |
Doesn't do much, I have mine sort of this way, just makes for pulling in and
out harder with little benefit.
Pascal
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 5:16 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Top Cowl aft edge - was Oil door deformation in
flight
Interesting - I had no plans yet to do anything, something like that seems
pretty good. I had wondered if a tapered hinge pin could be devised so it
would tighten up at the last few inches before the pin was fully in its
installed position.
-Chris
N919AR
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 4:29 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Top Cowl aft edge - was Oil door deformation in
flight
On the aft edge cowl ballooning up, I have a plenum so my cowl did not
balloon up but I did have a "smoke trail" from the ends of the pins -
evidenced there was vibration between the smaller diameter pin and the
hinge. I figured such relative motion was a quick way to break off cowl
mounting hinge eyelets.
Attached photos show how I fixed the problem. It takes some careful
measurements to get the mount hole to end up flush to the bottom of the
cowl, then drill the hole through the cowl for the #8 screw (the screw goes
into a nutplate). Measure many times then drill. The white grease you see
allows for the final movement of the angle to go flush with the bottom of
the cowl. I also added a few layers of carbon fiber in this area to
preclude the brace angle from ablating the top of the cowl. Add these
layers before fit up of the brace.
70 hours now with no rattle, no movement, and no evidence of the top of the
cowl wearing.
Carl
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Aft-deck F-1011 Bulkhead riveting |
For those I sent section 10 plans to, they have page 10-22 with revision 1,
which matches my copy from Vans. I don't know if there is any newer
revision. My build # is 40866.
On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Ron B. <ronbelliveau@eastlink.ca> wrote:
>
> Removed the fairing today and all is good. All steps on page 10-22 were
> completed. I don't recall where we would have obtained the instructions at
> the time or we might just have thought it was one of Van's figure it out
> yourself steps.
> This is just why I follow these forums. Had we missed something here ,
> this post could have saved our lives.
> On Sunday, after reading the first post looking for help, I pulled out my
> manual and looked for where the instructions said to rivet those left out
> rivets with no luck. I later read that the OP had pages missing and it
> turned out so did I.
> Thanks Carlos as you got me looking.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392847#392847
>
>
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