---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 01/29/13: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:26 AM - Re: Re: Pesky heavy left wing (Ed Kranz) 2. 07:58 AM - Re: Pesky heavy left wing (hotwheels) 3. 08:11 AM - Re: Re: Pesky heavy left wing (Linn) 4. 08:20 AM - Re: Re: Pesky heavy left wing (Bob Condrey) 5. 10:14 AM - Re: Re: Pesky heavy left wing (Ed Kranz) 6. 11:40 AM - Re: Re: Rear seat access (Les Kearney) 7. 01:41 PM - torque value of fuel servo/engine studs (Mike Whisky) 8. 02:06 PM - Re: torque value of fuel servo/engine studs (Linn) 9. 02:36 PM - Re: torque value of fuel servo/engine studs (charliewaffles) 10. 04:36 PM - Re: Re: torque value of fuel servo/engine studs (Kelly McMullen) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:26:35 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Pesky heavy left wing From: Ed Kranz Can you elaborate on what you saw that was amiss when the wings were in the cradles? I just bolted the flaps on to my wings (in the cradles). One flap had all three hinge holes align PERFECTLY, but the other had the center hole very slightly off. Very light pressure on the flap allowed the bolt to slide in, and I didn't think anything of it... but now I'm wondering if something might be off. On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 5:03 PM, hotwheels wrote: > > For the record, I knew something was amiss even with the flaps in the wing > cradle. Called Vans and they said something like "fly it first and is and > see if it's a problem". ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:58:48 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Pesky heavy left wing From: "hotwheels" Sorry to say, that was one symptom. One hole didn't quite line up. The other thing of note was that the aft edge of the flap was slightly off from the aileron... The flap trailing edge appeared to be straight, but that may not have been the root cause. I don't think there's really any better way to tell if something is off until you get the wings on and rigging done. I've spoken to a couple people at Van's about this issue and no one seemed surprised by having a flap twist. Apparently, it's common. Jay [quote="EdKranz"]Can you elaborate on what you saw that was amiss when the wings were in the cradles? I just bolted the flaps on to my wings (in the cradles). One flap had all three hinge holes align PERFECTLY, but the other had the center hole very slightly off. Very light pressure on the flap allowed the bolt to slide in, and I didn't think anything of it... but now I'm wondering if something might be off. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393226#393226 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:11:31 AM PST US From: Linn Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Pesky heavy left wing At least Vans didn't say 'We've never heard of that before.' ;-) Checking for twist is easy. Tape a yardstick to the top of the flap at the fuselage end and another at the outer end and sight across the yardsticks. Twist will show up significantly. The trailing edge can be perfectly straight while there's twist in the flap or aileron. I think the twist is the result of creep during the riveting process, but I'm no expert!!! Linn On 1/29/2013 10:58 AM, hotwheels wrote: > > Sorry to say, that was one symptom. One hole didn't quite line up. The other thing of note was that the aft edge of the flap was slightly off from the aileron... The flap trailing edge appeared to be straight, but that may not have been the root cause. I don't think there's really any better way to tell if something is off until you get the wings on and rigging done. > > I've spoken to a couple people at Van's about this issue and no one seemed surprised by having a flap twist. Apparently, it's common. > > Jay > > > [quote="EdKranz"]Can you elaborate on what you saw that was amiss when the wings were in the cradles? I just bolted the flaps on to my wings (in the cradles). One flap had all three hinge holes align PERFECTLY, but the other had the center hole very slightly off. Very light pressure on the flap allowed the bolt to slide in, and I didn't think anything of it... but now I'm wondering if something might be off. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393226#393226 > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:20:22 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Pesky heavy left wing From: Bob Condrey Ed, While it's a twist, calling it that causes people to assume that it's just a trailing edge issue. In this case the hinge holes are actually misaligned and at least while the wings were in the cradles, you could look down the wing skin trailing edge and compare to the flap leading edge rivet line and see that there was an issue also. To get the hinges to all align (while the wing was in the cradle), pressure had to be applied to the last hinge (my recollection is that it was about 3/8"=1/2" off. That all implies that the flap spar itself has some twist to it but you'd expect that the leading edges and/or skins would have forced it out. Best guess is that there's something amiss with a skin causing the twist but that's just speculation and without drilling the skins off, who knows. Needless to say, the trailing edge also exhibits a twist. His other flap is perfectly straight, so it's not like the L&R skins swapped and caused an issue. Bob On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 9:58 AM, hotwheels wrote: > > Sorry to say, that was one symptom. One hole didn't quite line up. The > other thing of note was that the aft edge of the flap was slightly off fr om > the aileron... The flap trailing edge appeared to be straight, but that m ay > not have been the root cause. I don't think there's really any better way > to tell if something is off until you get the wings on and rigging done. > > I've spoken to a couple people at Van's about this issue and no one seeme d > surprised by having a flap twist. Apparently, it's common. > > Jay > > > [quote="EdKranz"]Can you elaborate on what you saw that was amiss when the > wings were in the cradles? I just bolted the flaps on to my wings (in the > cradles). One flap had all three hinge holes align PERFECTLY, but the oth er > had the center hole very slightly off. Very light pressure on the flap > allowed the bolt to slide in, and I didn't think anything of it... =EF =BDbut now > I'm wondering if something might be off.=EF=BD > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393226#393226 > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:14:50 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Pesky heavy left wing From: Ed Kranz Linn and Bob, Thanks for the input. I did check for twist by taping a few levels to the flap bottom and using them as winding sticks. As far as I can tell, I don't have any "Twist". I can also sight down the aileron and flap trailing edge and it's straight and they are even with each other. I may just have a very slight bow at the spar of the flap or possibly even the rear spar of the wing. I'll look at it closer by seeing how far off the hinge point is and seeing how the flap is sitting against the top skin. It's a bit awkward with the wings sitting vertically in the cradles. Most likely, this is just my OCD flaring up! And there is most likely nothing I can or should do until I can see how the flaps sit against the fuse bottom... which is in a crate on a truck somewhere. On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Bob Condrey wrote: > Ed, > > While it's a twist, calling it that causes people to assume that it's just > a trailing edge issue. In this case the hinge holes are actually > misaligned and at least while the wings were in the cradles, you could look > down the wing skin trailing edge and compare to the flap leading edge rivet > line and see that there was an issue also. To get the hinges to all align > (while the wing was in the cradle), pressure had to be applied to the last > hinge (my recollection is that it was about 3/8"=1/2" off. That all > implies that the flap spar itself has some twist to it but you'd expect > that the leading edges and/or skins would have forced it out. Best guess > is that there's something amiss with a skin causing the twist but that's > just speculation and without drilling the skins off, who knows. Needless > to say, the trailing edge also exhibits a twist. His other flap is > perfectly straight, so it's not like the L&R skins swapped and caused an > issue. > > Bob > At least Vans didn't say 'We've never heard of that before.' ;-) Checking for twist is easy. Tape a yardstick to the top of the flap at the fuselage end and another at the outer end and sight across the yardsticks. Twist will show up significantly. The trailing edge can be perfectly straight while there's twist in the flap or aileron. I think the twist is the result of creep during the riveting process, but I'm no expert!!! Linn ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:40:39 AM PST US From: Les Kearney Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Rear seat access Hi A trick I used was to tie a small square of cloth to light nylon string then blow it through using my air hose. Worked like a charm even with tight turns. Cheers Les Sent from my iPhone On 2013-01-28, at 12:49 PM, "jkreidler" wrote: > > Another idea... If are able to get the fish tape into the subject area try placing something magnetic on the end of the tape then use a magnet to steer the tape to the hole. Or if there are no other wires you might be able to blow a string through with a screw on the end and then use the magnet. > > I REALLY like Tim's idea of an access panel leading to a small storage space. I saw this done on wingtips before. Great idea Tim! - Jason > > -------- > Jason Kreidler > 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI > Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler > N44YH - Flying - #40617 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393185#393185 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:41:16 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: torque value of fuel servo/engine studs From: "Mike Whisky" Hello, can someone please tell me what the torque value of fuel servo/engine studs are. Or where I can find this. Thanks Michael -------- RV-10 builder (interior & finishing) #511 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393243#393243 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:06:26 PM PST US From: Linn Subject: Re: RV10-List: torque value of fuel servo/engine studs AC 43-13 is the 'bible' for aviation and everybody should have a copy. You'll have far more knowledge at your fingertips ...... or mouse ..... than you'll possibly have questions for!!! You can find it here: http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/advisory_circulars/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentID/99861 or *http://tinyurl.com/3hr4js4.* To answer your question .... at least generally, look at table 7-1 0n page 7-9 of AC43-13 for torque values for various size bolts. Linn On 1/29/2013 4:40 PM, Mike Whisky wrote: > > Hello, > > can someone please tell me what the torque value of fuel servo/engine studs are. Or where I can find this. > Thanks > Michael > > -------- > RV-10 builder (interior & finishing) > #511 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393243#393243 > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:36:23 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: torque value of fuel servo/engine studs From: "charliewaffles" Actually, when it comes to the engine side of things, Lycoming specifies the torque for everything on the engine. You should refer to Service Table of Limits - SSP_1776 for anything relating to the Lycoming studs, bolts, nuts, etc... If its not called out for specifically, they have a default torque section at the end of the document. These are typically HIGHER than anything in AC43.13 or other sources as most threads are coarse threads. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393246#393246 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:36:19 PM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: torque value of fuel servo/engine studs True, but with the servo, higher torque values are not better. You only need enough to secure it and the gasket from air leaks. Very different than holding case parting line together, for example. Also, you will be using a lock tab, so they are not going to loosen. I'd recommend sticking with the AC43-13-1B values for this application. Just as Lycoming's spark plug torque value is 10 ft lbs higher than Continental's, for the very same threads in the same helicoil and same aluminum alloy. The Lyc representatives I've talked to could never give a reason for the high torque value for spark plugs, that just about requires a breaker bar to remove them. I've been using 25 ft lbs on my certified Lycoming for over 10 yrs and 700 hours with no issues. Kelly A&P/IA On 1/29/2013 3:36 PM, charliewaffles wrote: > > Actually, when it comes to the engine side of things, Lycoming specifies the torque for everything on the engine. You should refer to Service Table of Limits - SSP_1776 for anything relating to the Lycoming studs, bolts, nuts, etc... If its not called out for specifically, they have a default torque section at the end of the document. These are typically HIGHER than anything in AC43.13 or other sources as most threads are coarse threads. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393246#393246 > > ----- No virus found in this message. 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