Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:05 AM - Re: RV10-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 01/30/13 (Frank Davis)
2. 04:05 AM - Re: RV10-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 01/30/13 (Frank Davis)
3. 08:43 AM - Removing the baggage door cut-away portion of the fuselage skin (Carlos Trigo)
4. 09:22 AM - Re: Removing the baggage door cut-away portion of the fuselage skin (William Greenley)
5. 11:43 AM - Re: Flying an aileron roll in the -10?! (Ed Kranz)
6. 03:48 PM - Re: Flying an aileron roll in the -10?! (Bill Watson)
7. 05:09 PM - Re: Removing the baggage door cut-away portion of the fuselage skin (John MacCallum)
8. 07:59 PM - Re: Flying an aileron roll in the -10?! (Dave Saylor)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: RV10-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 01/30/13 |
What Bob Hoover and Tex Johnson did were barrel rolls, not aileron
rolls. Big difference.
On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 2:01 AM, RV10-List Digest Server
<rv10-list@matronics.com> wrote:
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete RV10-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the RV10-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 13-01-30&Archive=RV10
>
> Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 13-01-30&Archive=RV10
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> RV10-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Wed 01/30/13: 3
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 03:53 PM - Flying an aileron roll in the -10?! (Mike Whisky)
> 2. 04:23 PM - Re: Flying an aileron roll in the -10?! (Stein Bruch)
> 3. 06:22 PM - Re: Re: Pesky heavy left wing (Rick Lark)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 03:53:25 PM PST US
> Subject: RV10-List: Flying an aileron roll in the -10?!
> From: "Mike Whisky" <rv-10@wellenzohn.net>
>
>
> Check out this video this guy is flying an aileron roll with a the RV-10, I guess
> thats not it was designed for.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzvjPuXwf4U
>
> --------
> RV-10 builder (interior & finishing)
> #511
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393323#393323
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:23:59 PM PST US
> From: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flying an aileron roll in the -10?!
>
>
> He's not the first and likely won't be the last! :)
>
> Not that I'd recommend it at all, but as good ole' Bob Hoover has shown, a
> nicely executed roll is just about exactly 1G through the entire
> thing...even if you are pouring a cup of tea whilst doing it in an airplane
> not designed for it. I believe Tex Johnson also caught a bit of flak for
> doing the same thing in a 707!
>
> Cheers,
> Stein
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Whisky
> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 5:52 PM
> Subject: RV10-List: Flying an aileron roll in the -10?!
>
>
> Check out this video this guy is flying an aileron roll with a the RV-10, I
> guess thats not it was designed for.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzvjPuXwf4U
>
> --------
> RV-10 builder (interior & finishing)
> #511
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393323#393323
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:22:55 PM PST US
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Pesky heavy left wing
> From: Rick Lark <larkrv10@gmail.com>
>
> Hey Linn, that's the "winding stick " technique I previously mentioned. I
> assume you use the yard stick on edge. ;-)
>
> Rick
> #40956
> Southampton, Ont
>
> On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Linn <flying-nut@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> At least Vans didn't say 'We've never heard of that before.' ;-)
>> Checking for twist is easy. Tape a yardstick to the top of the flap at
>> the fuselage end and another at the outer end and sight across the
>> yardsticks. Twist will show up significantly. The trailing edge can be
>> perfectly straight while there's twist in the flap or aileron. I think t
> he
>> twist is the result of creep during the riveting process, but I'm no
>> expert!!!
>> Linn
>>
>> On 1/29/2013 10:58 AM, hotwheels wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Sorry to say, that was one symptom. One hole didn't quite line up. The
>>> other thing of note was that the aft edge of the flap was slightly off f
> rom
>>> the aileron... The flap trailing edge appeared to be straight, but that
> may
>>> not have been the root cause. I don't think there's really any better wa
> y
>>> to tell if something is off until you get the wings on and rigging done.
>>>
>>> I've spoken to a couple people at Van's about this issue and no one
>>> seemed surprised by having a flap twist. Apparently, it's common.
>>>
>>> Jay
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [quote="EdKranz"]Can you elaborate on what you saw that was amiss when
>>> the wings were in the cradles? I just bolted the flaps on to my wings (i
> n
>>> the cradles). One flap had all three hinge holes align PERFECTLY, but th
> e
>>> other had the center hole very slightly off. Very light pressure on the
>>> flap allowed the bolt to slide in, and I didn't think anything of it...
>>> =EF=BDbut now I'm wondering if something might be off.=EF=BD
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/**viewtopic.php?p=393226#393226<http://for
> ums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393226#393226>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
> =====**==================
> ===========**
> ronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
> =====**==================
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: RV10-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 01/30/13 |
What Bob Hoover and Tex Johnson did were barrel rolls, not aileron
rolls. Big difference.
On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 2:01 AM, RV10-List Digest Server
<rv10-list@matronics.com> wrote:
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete RV10-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the RV10-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 13-01-30&Archive=RV10
>
> Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 13-01-30&Archive=RV10
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> RV10-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Wed 01/30/13: 3
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 03:53 PM - Flying an aileron roll in the -10?! (Mike Whisky)
> 2. 04:23 PM - Re: Flying an aileron roll in the -10?! (Stein Bruch)
> 3. 06:22 PM - Re: Re: Pesky heavy left wing (Rick Lark)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 03:53:25 PM PST US
> Subject: RV10-List: Flying an aileron roll in the -10?!
> From: "Mike Whisky" <rv-10@wellenzohn.net>
>
>
> Check out this video this guy is flying an aileron roll with a the RV-10, I guess
> thats not it was designed for.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzvjPuXwf4U
>
> --------
> RV-10 builder (interior & finishing)
> #511
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393323#393323
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:23:59 PM PST US
> From: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flying an aileron roll in the -10?!
>
>
> He's not the first and likely won't be the last! :)
>
> Not that I'd recommend it at all, but as good ole' Bob Hoover has shown, a
> nicely executed roll is just about exactly 1G through the entire
> thing...even if you are pouring a cup of tea whilst doing it in an airplane
> not designed for it. I believe Tex Johnson also caught a bit of flak for
> doing the same thing in a 707!
>
> Cheers,
> Stein
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Whisky
> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 5:52 PM
> Subject: RV10-List: Flying an aileron roll in the -10?!
>
>
> Check out this video this guy is flying an aileron roll with a the RV-10, I
> guess thats not it was designed for.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzvjPuXwf4U
>
> --------
> RV-10 builder (interior & finishing)
> #511
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393323#393323
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:22:55 PM PST US
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Pesky heavy left wing
> From: Rick Lark <larkrv10@gmail.com>
>
> Hey Linn, that's the "winding stick " technique I previously mentioned. I
> assume you use the yard stick on edge. ;-)
>
> Rick
> #40956
> Southampton, Ont
>
> On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Linn <flying-nut@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> At least Vans didn't say 'We've never heard of that before.' ;-)
>> Checking for twist is easy. Tape a yardstick to the top of the flap at
>> the fuselage end and another at the outer end and sight across the
>> yardsticks. Twist will show up significantly. The trailing edge can be
>> perfectly straight while there's twist in the flap or aileron. I think t
> he
>> twist is the result of creep during the riveting process, but I'm no
>> expert!!!
>> Linn
>>
>> On 1/29/2013 10:58 AM, hotwheels wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Sorry to say, that was one symptom. One hole didn't quite line up. The
>>> other thing of note was that the aft edge of the flap was slightly off f
> rom
>>> the aileron... The flap trailing edge appeared to be straight, but that
> may
>>> not have been the root cause. I don't think there's really any better wa
> y
>>> to tell if something is off until you get the wings on and rigging done.
>>>
>>> I've spoken to a couple people at Van's about this issue and no one
>>> seemed surprised by having a flap twist. Apparently, it's common.
>>>
>>> Jay
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [quote="EdKranz"]Can you elaborate on what you saw that was amiss when
>>> the wings were in the cradles? I just bolted the flaps on to my wings (i
> n
>>> the cradles). One flap had all three hinge holes align PERFECTLY, but th
> e
>>> other had the center hole very slightly off. Very light pressure on the
>>> flap allowed the bolt to slide in, and I didn't think anything of it...
>>> =EF=BDbut now I'm wondering if something might be off.=EF=BD
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/**viewtopic.php?p=393226#393226<http://for
> ums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393226#393226>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
> =====**==================
> ===========**
> ronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
> =====**==================
> ===========**
> =====**==================
> ===========**
> com/contribution>
> =====**==================
> ===========**
>>
>>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Removing the baggage door cut-away portion of the fuselage |
skin
Guys
Question for those who used a QB fuselage:
Did you remove the baggage door cut-away portion of the fuselage skin BEFORE
or AFTER attaching the tail cone to the Fwd section of the fuselage?
Regards
Carlos
Message 4
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| Subject: | Removing the baggage door cut-away portion of the fuselage |
skin
The directions have you do it on page 29-15, several chapters before
attaching the tailcone, which is what I did.
Bill Greenley
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Trigo
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 11:44 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Removing the baggage door cut-away portion of the
fuselage skin
Guys
Question for those who used a QB fuselage:
Did you remove the baggage door cut-away portion of the fuselage skin BEFORE
or AFTER attaching the tail cone to the Fwd section of the fuselage?
Regards
Carlos
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Flying an aileron roll in the -10?! |
This article explains the different types of rolls:
http://www.iacusn.org/schools/reprints/08aug_rollisa.pdf
As this article states, what Bob Hoover did in the Shrike Commander was an
aileron roll, and he was able to do it at a constant 1G. You've probably
seen the video of him pouring tea during the roll. The article also
explains that this maneuver begins with a ~20 degree nose up, then roll,
which is what the youtube video shows. If he did the manuver correctly he
should have been at 1G or less the entire time.
A barrel role is a combination of a loop and a roll, and at the bottom of
the loop portion, you will be over 1G.
On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 6:04 AM, Frank Davis <fdavis101454@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> What Bob Hoover and Tex Johnson did were barrel rolls, not aileron
> rolls. Big difference.
>
> On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 2:01 AM, RV10-List Digest Server
> <rv10-list@matronics.com> wrote:
> > *
>
> >
> > Time: 03:53:25 PM PST US
> > Subject: RV10-List: Flying an aileron roll in the -10?!
> > From: "Mike Whisky" <rv-10@wellenzohn.net>
> >
> >
> > Check out this video this guy is flying an aileron roll with a the
> RV-10, I guess
> > thats not it was designed for.
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzvjPuXwf4U
> >
> > --------
> > RV-10 builder (interior & finishing)
> > #511
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393323#393323
> >
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
> >
> >
> > Time: 04:23:59 PM PST US
> > From: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
> > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flying an aileron roll in the -10?!
> >
> >
> > He's not the first and likely won't be the last! :)
> >
> > Not that I'd recommend it at all, but as good ole' Bob Hoover has shown,
> a
> > nicely executed roll is just about exactly 1G through the entire
> > thing...even if you are pouring a cup of tea whilst doing it in an
> airplane
> > not designed for it. I believe Tex Johnson also caught a bit of flak for
> > doing the same thing in a 707!
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Stein
> >
> >
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Flying an aileron roll in the -10?! |
Great article! Thanks for that. I too always thought Hoover was doing
a barrel roll in the Shrike but the explanation here makes much more
sense. I kind of feel sorry for those who never got the chance to see
the master of the Shrike do his thing in it. Freaking breathtaking.
The more you know, the more breathtaking it was.
I would note that the Hoover roll was described as an initial pitch
to between 20 and 45 degrees and that Bob actually pitched the Shrike to
between 60 and 70 degrees (I don't think so but that's what the article
said).
Great stuff here but it feels like something else should be said here;
Please don't try any of it. Don't try any of it without an aerobatic
instructor in an appropriate aircraft with 'chutes.
I've had 1 week's intensive aerobatic instruction in gliders. I'm not
sure any aerobatic airplane is more difficult to slow roll properly than
a 2 place Grob glider. I thoroughly enjoyed the training but have since
not performed a single aerobatic maneuver in anything since. Why?
Respect for the difficulty involved and respect for our sport. Every
rule and precaution has been in response to people screwing it up and
busting themselves up.
The roll techniques described in the article are very informative. What
they skip is that too many people experimenting in too many aerobatic
and non-aerobatic airplanes dish out of their initial attempts. Dishing
out is the opposite of everything you read here and you can break things.
Yes, I probably self taught myself to do a few loops and rolls before I
got some instruction. Training taught me that was stupid.
I probably did some cloud flying without a gyro (yes it can be done in
limited ways). That's incredibly stupid. If I did it, I must have been
very young and dumb. However, after starting my training for the IR, I
wouldn't even stretch the FAA criteria for currency. Fact is, the
criteria is less than you really need.
Yes, the RVs can generally do an ailron roll with little more than a
thought. The RV10 perhaps a bit less so. But I don't have a clue and
never will. And who needs a chute for a little casual acro?
Anyway, please don't read this stuff and decide to go out and try it.
At least get an experienced acro pilot in the seat next to you. Please.
<<School marm mode off>>
On 1/31/2013 2:42 PM, Ed Kranz wrote:
> This article explains the different types of rolls:
>
> http://www.iacusn.org/schools/reprints/08aug_rollisa.pdf
>
> As this article states, what Bob Hoover did in the Shrike Commander
> was an aileron roll, and he was able to do it at a constant 1G. You've
> probably seen the video of him pouring tea during the roll. The
> article also explains that this maneuver begins with a ~20 degree nose
> up, then roll, which is what the youtube video shows. If he did the
> manuver correctly he should have been at 1G or less the entire time.
>
> A barrel role is a combination of a loop and a roll, and at the bottom
> Release Date: 01/31/13
Message 7
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| Subject: | Removing the baggage door cut-away portion of the fuselage |
skin
Hi Carlos,
I left mine in until I had attached the Tailcone. I thought it better to
keep it in place until the riveting of the skin was finished to maintain
the shape. It wasn't a problem cutting it out after I had
Finished the overlaps.
Cheers
John MacCallum
VH-DUU
RV 10 # 41016
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Trigo
Sent: Friday, 1 February 2013 3:44 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Removing the baggage door cut-away portion of the
fuselage skin
Guys
Question for those who used a QB fuselage:
Did you remove the baggage door cut-away portion of the fuselage skin BEFORE
or AFTER attaching the tail cone to the Fwd section of the fuselage?
Regards
Carlos
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Flying an aileron roll in the -10?! |
I had a blast for a couple days in a Pitts at Sean Tucker's Tutima
Academy. Over two days we spent 4+ hours flying and twice as much in
the classroom. Both parts were fascinating! I can't recommend it
enough. And as Bill said, I really have no inclination to try that
stuff in a non-aerobatic plane. Having the right equipment just makes
it so much more enjoyable.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 3:47 PM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Great article! Thanks for that. I too always thought Hoover was doing a
> barrel roll in the Shrike but the explanation here makes much more sense.
> I kind of feel sorry for those who never got the chance to see the master of
> the Shrike do his thing in it. Freaking breathtaking. The more you know,
> the more breathtaking it was.
>
> I would note that the Hoover roll was described as an initial pitch to
> between 20 and 45 degrees and that Bob actually pitched the Shrike to
> between 60 and 70 degrees (I don't think so but that's what the article
> said).
>
> Great stuff here but it feels like something else should be said here;
> Please don't try any of it. Don't try any of it without an aerobatic
> instructor in an appropriate aircraft with 'chutes.
>
> I've had 1 week's intensive aerobatic instruction in gliders. I'm not sure
> any aerobatic airplane is more difficult to slow roll properly than a 2
> place Grob glider. I thoroughly enjoyed the training but have since not
> performed a single aerobatic maneuver in anything since. Why? Respect for
> the difficulty involved and respect for our sport. Every rule and
> precaution has been in response to people screwing it up and busting
> themselves up.
>
> The roll techniques described in the article are very informative. What
> they skip is that too many people experimenting in too many aerobatic and
> non-aerobatic airplanes dish out of their initial attempts. Dishing out is
> the opposite of everything you read here and you can break things.
>
> Yes, I probably self taught myself to do a few loops and rolls before I got
> some instruction. Training taught me that was stupid.
>
> I probably did some cloud flying without a gyro (yes it can be done in
> limited ways). That's incredibly stupid. If I did it, I must have been
> very young and dumb. However, after starting my training for the IR, I
> wouldn't even stretch the FAA criteria for currency. Fact is, the criteria
> is less than you really need.
>
> Yes, the RVs can generally do an ailron roll with little more than a
> thought. The RV10 perhaps a bit less so. But I don't have a clue and
> never will. And who needs a chute for a little casual acro?
>
> Anyway, please don't read this stuff and decide to go out and try it. At
> least get an experienced acro pilot in the seat next to you. Please.
>
> <<School marm mode off>>
>
>
> On 1/31/2013 2:42 PM, Ed Kranz wrote:
>>
>> This article explains the different types of rolls:
>>
>> http://www.iacusn.org/schools/reprints/08aug_rollisa.pdf
>>
>> As this article states, what Bob Hoover did in the Shrike Commander was an
>> aileron roll, and he was able to do it at a constant 1G. You've probably
>> seen the video of him pouring tea during the roll. The article also explains
>> that this maneuver begins with a ~20 degree nose up, then roll, which is
>> what the youtube video shows. If he did the manuver correctly he should have
>> been at 1G or less the entire time.
>>
>> A barrel role is a combination of a loop and a roll, and at the bottom
>> Release Date: 01/31/13
>
>
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