Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 11:44 AM - Re: Measuring Aileron Height - was Pesky heavy left wing (Bill Watson)
2. 02:52 PM - Re: Measuring Aileron Height - was Pesky heavy left wing (Rob Kochman)
3. 03:49 PM - IO 540 fuel preasure (Carroll L. Verhage)
4. 05:36 PM - Re: Measuring Aileron Height - was Pesky heavy left wing (Bob Turner)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Measuring Aileron Height - was Pesky heavy left wing |
I've been trying to fix a heavy left wing as well. After doing a
number of things and having some success, I'm going back to the
beginning with the wings. I've lined up the flaps so that 1) they are
even with the bottom of the fuse and 2) They have the same angular
relationship to the the wing skins in the reflex position (used a
digital level).
I'm now looking at the aileron height and believe that my left aileron
may be a slightly higher than my right but I can't figure out how to
confirm that. Carl said, "check the aileron height (compare left/right
at inboard and outboard attach points using a straight edge running aft
off the wing)" but I can't quite figure out how to do that. Where does
the straight edge lie and what are you measuring alignment with?
Any insight here is appreciated.
Thanks all for posting your work here. And I did go to the RV8 list
looking for same.
Bill "thinking he probably should just re-attach the trim servo and
leave it all alone" Watson
On 1/26/2013 6:48 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>
> Recommend first rigging the flaps to be exactly correct - both flush
> with the underside of the fuselage. From there start your other
> rigging checks. Hopefully this will get you on the right path. If
> you find you do have a twisted flap, then don't rig the aileron
> tailing edge to be in line with the offending flap. Rig the ailerons
> using a straight edge such that they match. This will mitigate a
> twisted flap problem.
>
> Below are a couple of earlier posts I made on rigging that you may
> find useful.
>
> Carl
>
> 60 hours on the RV-10 and one long cross country. Here are some
> recent tweaks that I've incorporated:
>
> -Added a .063" shim under the forward HS spar. This moved the
> elevators to a better trail position in cruise. I had a .040" shim in
> for 10 hours or so. It helped but was not quite enough. Even with
> this larger shim I have more nose up trim authority than I will ever
> need. With anything other than forward CG conditions however the
> elevators are still slightly trailing edge down. This calls for a
> larger shim but the .063" is about all I want to do for now as more
> may force an empennage fairing adjustment and/or re-hanging the
> rudder. For those wondering, my W&B is typical of other RV-10s.
>
> -Right wing slightly heavy. Not so bad that aileron trim would not
> fix, but not right. After some careful measurements I found the right
> aileron inboard hinge placed the aileron slightly high (as compared to
> the outboard hinge and the left aileron). I lowered the inboard side
> of the aileron .032" or so and this resolved the wing heavy issue.
>
> -Ball not centered. I chased my tail on this for some time. With the
> wheel pants and gear leg fairing off the ball is dead center. Various
> tweaks on the pants and fairings either had the ball out left or
> right. After several tries it is now dead center (and just finished
> final pant and fairing paint today). Some take-aways for those working
> this issue:
>
> oThe fairing adjustments are far more critical than the wheel pants at
> affecting the ball. Set the wheel pants as close as possible, then
> make all adjustments to the fairings after that.
>
> oThe Van's instructions lead you to think you can mount the wheel
> pants with the plane on the gear. I don't recommend this.
>
> oYou can never be too accurate setting up to check the fairing rig. A
> 1/16" move of the fairings trailing edge equals ball or so.
>
> -Don't paint the pants or fairings until after you are flying.
>
> -Add the "reinforcement glass" to the nose gear wheel pant (there was
> a recent thread on this). After mine cracked, I added two layers of
> carbon fiber to the inside, ground out the crack and filled it in with
> flox, sanded then two layers of regular glass on the outside over the
> crack. This was followed by the normal "micro-balloon and sand until
> you puke" routine.
>
> As already mentioned, check the aileron height (compare left/right at
> inboard and outboard attach points using a straight edge running aft
> off the wing). A very small difference between aileron heights will
> make a big difference -- and just how heavy the wing is will be
> dependent on speed. I found this problem in several heavy wing RVs,
> including my RV-8A. Moving the offending attachment point completely
> solve my problem on the 8A.
>
> Other things to look at:
>
> -Do not assume that if the ailerons (in neutral position) are even
> with the flaps (in reflex position) that they are rigged correctly as
> there may be a slight twist in the flap. Put the flaps in the reflex
> position, clamp one aileron to the flap, then compare using a straight
> edge running aft off the wing the two ailerons deflection. If there
> is a difference, adjust the push rods until they are exactly the same.
>
> -Do the same straight edge measurement on the flaps to compare. If
> you do have a slight twist in a flap, I would expect that you can
> compensate for it if the ailerons are symmetrically rigged as they
> provide the higher moment arm.
>
> -Once you have the ailerons at the same deflection, then look at the
> wingtips. When building the wingtips you can move the wingtip tailing
> edge up or down a good quarter of an inch when fitting the aft rib.
>
> Of note, the easy tone in Van's instructions on rigging the aircraft
> never seemed right for me. After chasing my tail on a heavy wing I
> went back to basics as discussed above and found the small difference
> in aileron mount height. Rigging is a big deal -- and something that
> few will get right on the first attempt.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of hotwheels
> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:16 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Pesky heavy left wing
>
> <mailto:jaybrinkmeyer@yahoo.com>>
>
> I noted the presence of a heavy left wing since first flight nearly a
> month ago. My rudder is a bit off, but even when the ball is centered,
> there's a roll moment that cannot be ignored.
>
> During my build it was pointed out that one flap didn't match the
> other. That is, there is a twist. Now that the plane is flying I don't
> recall which is which (figures). I'm thinking this should be addressed
> first before going down the path of adding trim wedges or adjusting
> ailerons. Incidentally, I notice any roll when flaps are at 1/2 or
> full down positions. Hmmmm.
>
> Looking at each flap at reflex, I can see that one of the inboard
> edges is flush with the underside of the fuse while the other is above
> the underside edge. Can someone who's flying maybe chime in as to what
> the "normal" position might be? Maybe a photo or two of the inboard
> edge would help?
>
> Other than the roll, I'm finding the -10 is really fun to fly!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jay
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393092#393092
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Measuring Aileron Height - was Pesky heavy left wing |
I know this has been brought up before, but don't you need to have the
flaps all the way up against the spar in the reflex position to avoid
stressing the flap actuation system in cruise?
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 11:43 AM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com> wrote
:
> I've been trying to fix a heavy left wing as well. After doing a
> number of things and having some success, I'm going back to the beginning
> with the wings. I've lined up the flaps so that 1) they are even with th
e
> bottom of the fuse and 2) They have the same angular relationship to the
> the wing skins in the reflex position (used a digital level).
>
> I'm now looking at the aileron height and believe that my left aileron ma
y
> be a slightly higher than my right but I can't figure out how to confirm
> that. Carl said, "check the aileron height (compare left/right at
> inboard and outboard attach points using a straight edge running aft off
> the wing)" but I can't quite figure out how to do that. Where does the
> straight edge lie and what are you measuring alignment with?
>
> Any insight here is appreciated.
>
> Thanks all for posting your work here. And I did go to the RV8 list
> looking for same.
>
> Bill "thinking he probably should just re-attach the trim servo and leave
> it all alone" Watson
>
> On 1/26/2013 6:48 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
>
> Recommend first rigging the flaps to be exactly correct - both flush
> with the underside of the fuselage. From there start your other rigging
> checks. Hopefully this will get you on the right path. If you find you
do
> have a twisted flap, then don=92t rig the aileron tailing edge to be in l
ine
> with the offending flap. Rig the ailerons using a straight edge such tha
t
> they match. This will mitigate a twisted flap problem.****
>
> ** **
>
> Below are a couple of earlier posts I made on rigging that you may find
> useful.****
>
> ** **
>
> Carl****
>
> ** **
>
> 60 hours on the RV-10 and one long cross country. Here are some recent
> tweaks that I=92ve incorporated:****
>
> - Added a .063=94 shim under the forward HS spar. This moved th
e
> elevators to a better trail position in cruise. I had a .040=94 shim in
for
> 10 hours or so. It helped but was not quite enough. Even with this larg
er
> shim I have more nose up trim authority than I will ever need. With
> anything other than forward CG conditions however the elevators are still
> slightly trailing edge down. This calls for a larger shim but the .063
=94 is
> about all I want to do for now as more may force an empennage fairing
> adjustment and/or re-hanging the rudder. For those wondering, my W&B is
> typical of other RV-10s.****
>
> - Right wing slightly heavy. Not so bad that aileron trim would
> not fix, but not right. After some careful measurements I found the righ
t
> aileron inboard hinge placed the aileron slightly high (as compared to th
e
> outboard hinge and the left aileron). I lowered the inboard side of the
> aileron .032=94 or so and this resolved the wing heavy issue.****
>
> - Ball not centered. I chased my tail on this for some time.
> With the wheel pants and gear leg fairing off the ball is dead center.
> Various tweaks on the pants and fairings either had the ball =BD out left
or
> right. After several tries it is now dead center (and just finished fina
l
> pant and fairing paint today). Some take-aways for those working this
> issue:****
>
> o The fairing adjustments are far more critical than the wheel pants at
> affecting the ball. Set the wheel pants as close as possible, then make
> all adjustments to the fairings after that.****
>
> o The Van=92s instructions lead you to think you can mount the wheel
> pants with the plane on the gear. I don=92t recommend this.****
>
> o You can never be too accurate setting up to check the fairing rig. A
> 1/16=94 move of the fairings trailing edge equals =BC ball or so.****
>
> - Don=92t paint the pants or fairings until after you are flying
.**
> **
>
> - Add the =93reinforcement glass=94 to the nose gear wheel pant
> (there was a recent thread on this). After mine cracked, I added two
> layers of carbon fiber to the inside, ground out the crack and filled it
in
> with flox, sanded then two layers of regular glass on the outside over th
e
> crack. This was followed by the normal =93micro-balloon and sand until y
ou
> puke=94 routine.****
>
> ** **
>
> As already mentioned, check the aileron height (compare left/right at
> inboard and outboard attach points using a straight edge running aft off
> the wing). A very small difference between aileron heights will make a b
ig
> difference ' and just how heavy the wing is will be dependent on speed.
I
> found this problem in several heavy wing RVs, including my RV-8A. Moving
> the offending attachment point completely solve my problem on the 8A.****
>
> ** **
>
> Other things to look at:****
>
> - Do not assume that if the ailerons (in neutral position) are
> even with the flaps (in reflex position) that they are rigged correctly a
s
> there may be a slight twist in the flap. Put the flaps in the reflex
> position, clamp one aileron to the flap, then compare using a straight ed
ge
> running aft off the wing the two ailerons deflection. If there is a
> difference, adjust the push rods until they are exactly the same. ****
>
> - Do the same straight edge measurement on the flaps to
> compare. If you do have a slight twist in a flap, I would expect that yo
u
> can compensate for it if the ailerons are symmetrically rigged as they
> provide the higher moment arm.****
>
> - Once you have the ailerons at the same deflection, then look
> at the wingtips. When building the wingtips you can move the wingtip
> tailing edge up or down a good quarter of an inch when fitting the aft ri
b.
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> Of note, the easy tone in Van=92s instructions on rigging the aircraft ne
ver
> seemed right for me. After chasing my tail on a heavy wing I went back t
o
> basics as discussed above and found the small difference in aileron mount
> height. Rigging is a big deal ' and something that few will get right
on
> the first attempt.****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [
> mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com<owner-rv10-list-server@matron
ics.com>]
> On Behalf Of hotwheels
> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:16 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Pesky heavy left wing****
>
> ** **
>
*
>
> ** **
>
> I noted the presence of a heavy left wing since first flight nearly a
> month ago. My rudder is a bit off, but even when the ball is centered,
> there's a roll moment that cannot be ignored. ****
>
> ** **
>
> During my build it was pointed out that one flap didn't match the other.
> That is, there is a twist. Now that the plane is flying I don't recall
> which is which (figures). I'm thinking this should be addressed first
> before going down the path of adding trim wedges or adjusting ailerons.
> Incidentally, I notice any roll when flaps are at 1/2 or full down
> positions. Hmmmm.****
>
> ** **
>
> Looking at each flap at reflex, I can see that one of the inboard edges i
s
> flush with the underside of the fuse while the other is above the undersi
de
> edge. Can someone who's flying maybe chime in as to what the "normal"
> position might be? Maybe a photo or two of the inboard edge would help?**
*
> *
>
> ** **
>
> Other than the roll, I'm finding the -10 is really fun to fly!****
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks,****
>
> Jay****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Read this topic online here:****
>
> ** **
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393092#393092****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List****
>
> http://forums.matronics.com****
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *
>
> *
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 01/26/13
>
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
--
Rob Kochman
RV-10 Flying since March 2011
Woodinville, WA
http://kochman.net/N819K
Message 3
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| Subject: | IO 540 fuel preasure |
IO 540-D Lycoming engines require only -2 to 35 psi fuel preasure to
inlet of engine driven fule pump to opperate. Go to "getbookee.org".
Select Lycoming 540 owners manual. Click on Operators Manual. Click
Download. Scroll down to manual page 3-11. You can down load and print
the complete manual if you want for any of the Lycoming 540's.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Measuring Aileron Height - was Pesky heavy left wing |
1. Yes, the flaps should rest against the aft spar in the full up position.
2. With the aileron in neutral position, lay a 6" straight edge in a fore-aft direction,
half on the wing and half on the aileron (do this both at the inboard
and outboard aileron ends). The aileron should just barely touch the straight
edge, when it's flat along the wing.
My experience was that this was a very sensitive measurement. I had an obviously
heavy left wing (I didn't quantify it any more than that), and it was 80% fixed
by lowering the outboard attachment by 1/32" or 1/16". I'm sure another 1/32"
would fix it entirely. But it now is at the point where 15 minutes of fuel
burn from the left tank fixes it, too, so it's not a high priority.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394233#394233
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